LSE Literary Weekend – Ben Okri Showcase

Date: February 28, 2009
Podcast: LSE: Public lectures and events
Host: Palash Dave (B)
Featured Guest: Ben Okri (C)

Overview

This special session at the LSE Space for Thought Festival presents Booker Prize-winning author and poet Ben Okri in conversation with journalist and writer Palash Dave. The event is part of Poet in the City’s New Audiences initiative, designed to broaden poetry’s reach, and focuses on Okri’s hybrid literary forms, the spiritual and social power of poetry, and his relationship to change, creativity, and the age.

Main Themes

• Poetry as the Beginning: Okri’s emphasis on poetry at the root of his creative life.
• Poetry’s Transformative Power: Personal testimony and communal healing through Okri’s work.
• Blending Forms: The fusion of poetry and prose in Okri’s recent writing.
• The Spiritual and the Transcendent: An exploration of the ineffable in literature.
• Art and Impact: Okri’s thoughts on public influence, reception, and artistic intent.
• Change: Reflection on change as constant and necessary, read through Okri's poem "Dancing with Change".

Detailed Discussion and Key Insights

Introduction and Context (00:00–04:51)

• Laura Cattell introduces the event, describing Poet in the City’s mission to connect wider audiences with poetry (A).
• Palash Dave gives background on Ben Okri’s poetic output, notably mentioning his poetry collections, editorship, and new book, Tales of Freedom. He prompts Okri to talk about his university days and how they impacted his worldview (B).

Ben Okri Reads His Poetry (04:51–09:16)

• Okri opens by defying convention:
  Quote: “I actually think what I’m going to do is, if you don’t mind, break the rules...before we get to know one another, you need to hear my voice.” (C, 04:51)
• Reads extracts from Mental Fight and An African Elegy.
  • Memorable moment: The reading of “We are the miracles that God made...” from “An African Elegy” (06:40)
• Okri emphasizes the primacy of poetry:
  Quote: “Poetry is essentially the beginning...Poetry is my incantative relationship with everything. So it’s fitting that I begin with poetry.” (C, 05:30)

Mental Fight and Its Impact (09:16–12:35)

• Dave relates the story of the “Mental Fight Club” created by Sarah Wheeler, illustrating the healing power of Okri's poem for those grappling with mental illness.
  Quote: “[Wheeler said,] He seemed to be saying that if we can face these predicaments, one of them being mental illness, then we can win through.” (B, 11:04)
• Okri’s humble reaction:
  Quote: “I’m humbled by it. I’m very moved...If I’m really honest. I say that in a way, the reader creates the poem...So in a sense, it’s her poetry, it’s the poetry of her spirit at work here.” (C, 12:35)

The Difference Between Poetry and Prose (14:26–16:10)

• Okri delivers an evocative distinction:
  Quote:
  “Poetry is silence and prose is speech. Poetry is hearing and prose is listening. Poetry is seeing and prose is looking. Poetry is meditation and prose is contemplation. Poetry is spiritual and prose is psychic. Poetry is timelessness and prose is time.” (C, 14:49)

On the Spiritual and Transcendence in Writing (16:10–19:23)

• Okri asserts that true literature hints at the “immeasurable” elements of life, beyond the senses: Quote: “I believe we’re also something immeasurable inside us and all around us and part of us...I think this element is missing a great deal in...contemporary life.” (C, 16:22)
• Discusses eclectic spiritual influences, especially Taoism, and the universal human longing for “the infinite”:
  Quote: “Everyone’s got a garden that’s leading to the infinite. All cultures have that garden.” (C, 18:38)

Expressing the Inexpressible (19:23–26:12)

• Okri introduces his story-poem “The Clock,” a “stoku” (hybrid of short story and haiku) from his new book Tales of Freedom. The tale is a surreal parable on fixation, trauma, and the search for release, reinforcing the theme of transformative symbols.
• Notable Passage: “It doesn’t take much, does it, to unhinge a man...Now I go through life not fixing my mind on anything or anyone. There’s a sort of freedom in this.” (C, 25:48)

Audience Q&A – The Writer and Public Impact (26:12–36:05)

• A contributor (D) shares how Okri’s work inspired multiple creative and therapeutic projects, asking Okri how he feels about his influence on communities.
  • Okri responds that, while deeply moved, he prefers “to do what one does as purely as possible” and doesn’t dwell on the public’s reactions lest it cloud his process:
    Quote: “I’m influenced only to the degree of the source of my writing...I think maybe finally the source is some unavoidable concern that I have about us, about being here.” (C, 28:08)
  • Okri likens this attitude to actors learning to perform regardless of “boos or applause.” (C, 31:00)
  • On the personal/public nature of his work:
    Quote: “Personal, but personal, the public is implied in my personal… I actually slightly believe in the novelist dictum that, you know, I am you.” (C, 32:05)

Literature, Politics, and the Spirit of the Age (33:05–40:27)

• Dave invokes Shelley’s phrase, “Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world,” and asks Okri about his relation to the spirit of the age.
  • Okri ponders the danger and ambiguity of such claims:
    Quote: “How do you know that you’re carried by the spirit of the age and not...the spirit of your agents?” (C, 36:05)
  • Reads from “Lessons from a Master” (Picasso), a list poem on creativity, innovation, and renewal in art (37:35–39:35).

On Meditation and Contemplation (40:27–42:45)

• Responding to an audience question about “why meditation or home shape,” Okri distinguishes meditation (emptiness, openness) from contemplation (logical, clear focus), applying the difference to poetry and prose: Quote: “Contemplation is a clear, logical thought...Meditation is about emptiness. The space is empty for things to come into. So poetry at its best, to clear your mind, actually, rather than fill it.” (C, 41:05)

The Search for New Forms and Beyond Realism (42:45–45:10)

• On literary evolution, Okri describes his dissatisfaction with “realism” and his need to find “a new style...a new tone of voice” to embrace myth, dreams, and what realism omits. Quote: “I became profoundly, deeply dissatisfied with the description of the world that I found in realism...I needed a new style. I needed a new tone of voice in which to catch this new reality.” (C, 43:00)

Closing Reading – “Dancing with Change” (45:40–53:13)

• Okri reads his extended meditation on change, inspired by a professor’s remark, weaving history, myth, philosophy, and lyricism into a poetic affirmation of life’s mutability: Quote:
  “Change is the happy God that Heraclitus saw in the golden river.
  Spread illumination through this darkening world.
  No change is good, but dancing gracefully with change is better.” (C, 53:00)

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “Poetry is my incantative relationship with everything.” – Okri (05:30)
• “We are the miracles that God made to taste the bitter fruit of time...” (reading from “An African Elegy”) – Okri (07:00)
• “I’m humbled by it. I’m so humbled by it that I’m just slightly catatonic...” – Okri, on Mental Fight Club (12:35)
• “Poetry is silence and prose is speech...” – Okri, on genre distinctions (14:49)
• “Everyone’s got a garden that’s leading to the infinite. All cultures have that garden.” – Okri (18:38)
• “I am you.” – Okri, invoking the novelist’s dictum (32:05)
• “No change is good, but dancing gracefully with change is better.” – Okri, closing reading (53:00)

Timeline of Key Segments

• 00:00–02:18: Introduction by Laura Cattell and Palash Dave.
• 04:51–09:16: Okri’s poetry readings (“Mental Fight,” “An African Elegy”).
• 09:16–12:35: Power of “Mental Fight” and the Mental Fight Club.
• 14:49–16:10: Okri’s poetic definition of the differences between poetry and prose.
• 19:53–26:12: Okri reads “The Clock” from his new collection.
• 26:30–33:05: Audience discussion on influence, impact, and personal/public nexus.
• 33:05–40:27: Shelley’s “unacknowledged legislators”; Okri on the spirit of the age; reads “Lessons from a Master.”
• 45:40–53:13: Ben Okri’s concluding reading, “Dancing with Change.”

Takeaways for Listeners

• Ben Okri sees poetry not only as the root and soul of his writing but as a vehicle for communal healing, personal transformation, and grappling with the ineffable.
• He resists narrow definitions and fixed forms, prizing the spiritual, the hybrid, and the ever-changing.
• Okri is deeply moved by the impact his work has had on readers but strives to remain pure in his artistic intent, unswayed by praise or criticism.
• The session is marked by Okri’s humility, depth, and reluctance to separate the personal and political in art; as he says, “I am you.”
• The closing poem, “Dancing with Change,” encapsulates a central belief: “No change is good, but dancing gracefully with change is better.”