Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: LSE: Public lectures and events
Episode: Multiculturalism, Democracy, and Sharia Law
Date: July 3, 2007
Host: Justin Guest (LSE doctoral student)
Guest: Professor Anne Phillips (Political and gender theory, LSE)

This episode delves into the contentious debate surrounding multiculturalism, democracy, and the role of Sharia law in the UK, spurred by recent comments from the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams. Professor Anne Phillips provides nuanced insights into social cohesion, the complexities of integrating religious law into democratic societies, and the meaning of secularism in pluralistic communities.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Impact of Rowan Williams’ Comments on Sharia Law

• Media Amplification and Stereotyping

  • Professor Phillips suggests the Archbishop's comments, rather than fostering understanding, have largely "widened the gap" between Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain due to the media's sensationalist handling of the issue.
    • Quote:
      "I think it's given a platform to all kinds of stereotyping of Muslims in Britain and the usual kind of...overreactions when the term Sharia is heard." (Phillips, [01:22])

• Nuanced Function of Sharia Councils

  • Sharia councils, while controversial, serve a practical function for some devout Muslim women seeking religious divorces, which civil courts cannot provide due to religious requirements.
  • Councils vary in conservativeness, sometimes pressuring women to remain in marriages, but often providing an essential escape.
    • Quote:
      "For a lot of women, basically, they've managed to get a religious divorce through the Sharia courts...there are complicated issues." (Phillips, [02:58])

• Regulation vs. Institutionalization

  • Greater regulation and monitoring of Sharia councils could improve consistency and fairness but might also lead to problematic formal institutionalization of religious law.

Defining Social Cohesion

• Root Causes

  • Professor Phillips challenges the popular focus on cultural or religious difference, arguing that inequalities in income and social status are more fundamental threats to social cohesion.
    • Quote:
      "Social cohesion to me is hard to imagine in societies in which you have really major inequalities of income." (Phillips, [04:46])

• Misdiagnosis of the Issue

  • She believes concerns about "alienated youth" (sometimes racialized as Muslim) should be understood alongside broader social and economic deprivation.
    • Quote:
      "I just wish people would actually put those two stories together a bit more and actually really discuss questions of social cohesion in ways that actually saw the wider picture." (Phillips, [06:07])

The Case for Secularism

• Secularism Amid Diversity

  • Phillips argues for secularism as the only viable system in a society of multiple faiths and beliefs, capable of ensuring both religious freedom and equal respect.
    • Quote:
      "Secularism is precisely a recognition of the fact that there is a multiplicity of faiths and...a politics which is kind of able to give both guarantees of religious freedom to people, regardless of the differences in religion, and...equal respect across different religions and...those who have beliefs and those who don't." (Phillips, [07:02])

• Concerns About Aggressive Secularism

  • She criticizes a particularly "strident" strand of secularism that defines itself in opposition to religion, labeling faith as superstition or backwardness, as unhelpful for social cohesion.
    • Quote:
      "There's a kind of rather more strident secularism which...is kind of like falling into defining religion...as kind of like superstition, irrationality, backwardness..." (Phillips, [07:45])

• Disestablishment and the Role of the Church

  • The privileged position of the Anglican Church may obligate it to defend other faiths, prompting interventions such as the Archbishop's.
    • Quote:
      "Possibly...the Anglican Church has this sense of its position as the kind of privileged and favored church and possibly therefore more of a responsibility to speak out for other religions than might otherwise be the case." (Phillips, [08:33])

Multiculturalism and Cultural Difference

• Overstated Cultural Differences

  • Phillips warns that society exaggerates "essentialized" cultural differences and should not see values as rigidly divided between ethnic or religious groups.
    • Quote:
      "We hugely exaggerate the nature of cultural difference in contemporary society and...talk about cultures which really just doesn't correspond to the reality of most people's lives." (Phillips, [09:26])

• Critique of 'British Values'

  • The idea of sharply opposing “British values” to those of other groups is a distortion; cultural variation exists but does not preclude significant shared understanding.
    • Quote:
      "I'm quite...critical...of some of the ways in which people throw around the notion of British values, as if there is...values of one culture which can be called...British values, and then...completely different and opposing values of other cultures." (Phillips, [10:00])

Shared Values and Democracy

• Potential Common Ground
  • Phillips identifies human rights, democracy, and gender equality as crucial shared values—hard-won, precarious, and not uniquely British.
    • Quote:
      "Principles of human rights, principles of democracy, principles of equality between the sexes...are kind of hugely important values...ones that have only been very...recent and...fragile status." (Phillips, [12:01])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "For a lot of women, basically, they've managed to get a religious divorce through the Sharia courts...there are complicated issues." (Phillips, [02:58])
• "Social cohesion to me is hard to imagine in societies in which you have really major inequalities of income." (Phillips, [04:46])
• "Secularism is precisely a recognition of the fact that there is a multiplicity of faiths...and that's why we have an issue of secularism." (Phillips, [07:02])
• "We hugely exaggerate the nature of cultural difference in contemporary society..." (Phillips, [09:26])
• "Principles of human rights, principles of democracy, principles of equality between the sexes...are kind of hugely important values..." (Phillips, [12:01])

Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:00–01:14 – Introduction; context of Rowan Williams’ remarks
• 01:15–04:22 – Sharia councils, their societal role, and the issue of formalization
• 04:23–06:30 – Definitions and misconceptions around social cohesion
• 06:31–08:30 – Secularism, pluralism, and the established church
• 08:31–11:47 – Discussion on multiculturalism, exaggeration of cultural difference
• 11:48–13:35 – British values, shared principles, and their limits

Conclusion

Anne Phillips provides a nuanced analysis of multiculturalism in Britain, challenging simplistic narratives about religious difference and social cohesion. She argues for a more sophisticated understanding of the role of religious law, the importance of tackling economic inequality, and the need for a truly inclusive secularism. While shared values like democracy and human rights matter, Phillips cautions against essentializing cultural identities or claiming ownership of these values, advocating instead for ongoing, critical engagement within pluralistic democratic societies.