Podcast Summary

Podcast: LSE: Public lectures and events
Episode: Season 2, Episode 7 – The Rural-Urban Divide
Date: October 12, 2017
Host: Denise Barron (LSE Film and Audio Team)
Guests: Professor Kathy Cramer (University of Wisconsin–Madison), Chris Gilson (co-host), Tori Mallett (PhD candidate, LSE)

Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

This episode of "The Ballpark" explores the deepening divide between rural and urban communities in the United States, focusing on the concept of "rural resentment." Political scientist Professor Kathy Cramer discusses her decade-long research into how social identity, economic shifts, and political rhetoric have fueled feelings of injustice and group resentment—critical factors in recent American political dynamics. The conversation expands to consider the role of suburbia, local power structures, and the broader implications for democracy and party politics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Kathy Cramer’s Groundbreaking Research on Rural Resentment

• Origin and Methods ([02:42], [04:18])

  • Started in 2007, originally aimed at exploring links between social class and political understanding.
  • Used a unique fieldwork approach: attending informal gatherings in 27 Wisconsin communities, mostly rural, called "coffee clutches," to listen to organic discussions rather than orchestrate interviews or focus groups.
  • “I wasn’t setting out to look for rural attitudes towards cities.” —Kathy Cramer [00:30], [02:42]

• Resentment Defined ([05:29])

  • Kramer clarifies that "resentment" isn’t simply negative emotion; it’s “a feeling of not getting your fair share, a sense of injustice or a sense that you've been wronged somehow.” —Kathy Cramer [05:29]

• Resentment as Political Motivation ([06:45])

  • Resentment requires a target, making it politically powerful. When people identify a group "taking more than their fair share," political actors can mobilize this sentiment for electoral gain.
  • “When people have a target, blame in mind, that can be mobilized.” —Kathy Cramer [06:45]

• Role in Elections: Scott Walker and Donald Trump ([07:07])

  • Walker framed public employees as “the haves,” and private sector workers as “the have-nots,” leveraging resentment for support. This justified controversial policies, including restrictions on collective bargaining.
  • Trump, though different, tapped into similar feelings—directing resentment at immigrants, Muslims, and urban “elites.”
  • “Donald Trump mobilized on resentment too... He also said, ‘You're right to be so upset… it's the fault of these people.’” —Kathy Cramer [08:56]

Exploring the Roots of Rural Resentment and Identity

• Economic and Cultural Origins ([10:20])

  • Economic decline, job losses, and growing inequality since the 1970s fuel feelings of grievance in rural America. Urban areas are often seen as hubs of wealth and opportunity.
  • Cultural narratives (e.g., "Hunger Games" comparison [12:52]) paint cities as out-of-touch capitals, deepening the divide.

• Urban Resentment: A Distinct Flavor ([13:48])

  • Urban communities also feel “something is really off,” but less via urban-rural lenses—more through neighborhood or class identities.
  • “It's different in that people were interpreting public policy... not through the lens of because I am a city dweller.” —Kathy Cramer [14:11]

Key Findings and Implications for Public Opinion and Policy ([15:03])

• Importance of Place-Based Social Identity

  • Regional and place-based identity is essential—often overlooked in national polls focused narrowly on partisanship.
  • “People’s sense of who they are in terms of their rootedness to particular places is way more meaningful than we normally get at...” —Kathy Cramer [15:03]

• Limitations of Polling

  • Polling may obscure the complexity of public opinion, especially when group context and nuanced views are missed.
  • “Responding to a stranger over the phone in a format that's totally unfamiliar is not necessarily more real than what they say with the group of people...” —Kathy Cramer [17:17]

• Future of American Politics and the Persistence of Resentment ([18:48])

  • Using resentment as a campaign tool is “very effective at mobilizing support… winning votes.” Doubts whether parties, especially Democrats, can bridge these divides without demonizing groups.
  • Warns, “Significant portions of the population having no faith in the system… I don't see an end to it anytime soon.” —Kathy Cramer [20:36]

The Host Discussion: Spectrum, Not a Divide

Suburbia and the “Liminal Space” ([23:27], [24:53])

• Tori Mallett’s Perspective

  • Argues the rural-urban relationship is a spectrum, not a binary. Over half of Americans live in suburbs—spaces blending rural values and urban economics.
  • “Suburbia is really that kind of messy liminal space where politics really happens.” —Tori Mallett [23:27]

• Suburbs as Political Battlegrounds

  • Suburban voters often prioritize low taxes and services over public transit or housing, and politically “lean right.”
  • Culturally and racially, suburbs align more with neighboring rural or urban areas than with city centers ([25:20]).

• Suburb Identity

  • Suburb residents have instrumental motivations—better schools, space, home ownership—rather than deep place-based identity.
  • “People who operated primarily in the suburbs did not talk like that [about identity]... It's much, much more transactional.” —Tori Mallett [32:19]

Local Power and Policy Dynamics ([21:16], [30:11])

• State vs. City Tensions

  • In states with large rural populations, rural resentments can drive state-level policies that override progressive city ordinances (e.g. San Antonio's LGBTQ non-discrimination law) ([22:25]).

• Inequality and Future Trends

  • New, equity-oriented city councils (San Antonio as example) show potential for progressive change, but persistent economic and spatial segregation likely to continue ([28:04]).

• Suburban Political Influence

  • Suburbs often impede urban policy reforms due to their population size, voter mobilization, and status-quo preference ([30:11]).

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

On Defining Resentment

"It's a term that captures a feeling of not getting your fair share, a sense of injustice or a sense that you've been wronged somehow."
—Kathy Cramer [05:29]

On the Power of Resentment

"When people have a target, blame in mind, that can be mobilized."
—Kathy Cramer [06:45]

On Suburbia as a Political Space

"Suburbia is really that kind of messy liminal space where politics really happens... they're going to really identify with this sort of nostalgia, romanticization of the rural community."
—Tori Mallett [23:27]

On Identity in Political Dynamics

“People’s sense of who they are in terms of their rootedness to particular places is way more meaningful than we normally get at through national sample public opinion polls...”
—Kathy Cramer [15:03]

On the Future of US Politics

"I don't see an end to it anytime soon."
—Kathy Cramer [20:36]

Memorable Moments & Segment Timestamps

• Kathy Cramer describes her “coffee clutch” methodology ([04:18]–[05:22])
• Dissection of Scott Walker’s and Trump’s use of resentment ([07:07]–[09:42])
• Pop culture analogies and the “Hunger Games” reference for rural perception of elites ([12:52])
• Detailed discussion of suburban political behavior and motivations ([23:27]–[24:53])
• Exploration of the difference in political identity between urban, rural and suburban residents ([31:05]–[32:19])

Structure of Discussion

I. Introduction and Main Guest (Kathy Cramer)

• Framing rural resentment as key political dynamic
• Origins, methodology, and definition

II. Political Examples and Context

• Scott Walker, Donald Trump: mobilizing resentment
• Historical and economic roots

III. Implications and Limitations of Current Political Research

• The enduring role of social and place-based identity
• Need for approaches beyond traditional polling

IV. Roundtable with Tori Mallett and Chris Gilson

• Understanding the spectrum: rural–suburban–urban
• Suburbs as pivotal, yet distinct, political spaces
• The transactional nature of suburban identity and voting

V. Looking Forward

• Persistent challenges of resentment politics
• Policy implications, growing polarization, and the role of new local leaders

Conclusion

Through in-depth research, Professor Kathy Kramer exposes how resentment—rooted in perceptions of injustice and identity—shapes American politics, particularly around the rural-urban divide. The episode widens the lens to include suburbia, demonstrating that contemporary political cleavages exist on a spectrum and suggesting new focal points for both research and policy-making. The conversation closes on a sobering note: These divisions are unlikely to diminish soon, so understanding them is ever more crucial.