Podcast Summary: "Secularism, Human Rights and the Middle East: Challenges and Reflections"

LSE: Public Lectures and Events / October 23, 2012
Speaker: Gilbert Achcar, Professor of Development Studies and International Relations, SOAS

Episode Overview

This lecture, hosted by the LSE Centre for the Study of Human Rights, features Gilbert Achcar’s nuanced reflections on the relationships among secularism, human rights, and evolving political orders in the Middle East after the Arab Spring. Achcar discusses deep-rooted tensions between secular and religious political forces, critiques both Western interpretations and regional realities, and interrogates the compatibility of political Islam with democracy.

Key Themes and Discussion Points

1. Background and Context of the Arab Spring

• Achcar notes the regional shift post-Arab Spring, emphasizing tensions between secular and religious (specifically various forms of political Islam and Salafism) actors (04:15).
• He underlines the historic complexity, noting these struggles pre-date recent uprisings (05:00).
• The optimistic "euphoria" around the Arab Spring has given way to "deep melancholic depression" in Western discourse, sometimes termed "Arab Winter" (08:12).
  • Quote:

    "Now we enter the stage where the same people who used to speak of Arab Spring are speaking of Arab winter or autumn or whatever." — Gilbert Achcar (08:19)

2. Debate: Islam and Democracy

• Achcar rejects essentialist views suggesting Islam's incompatibility with democracy:
  • Quote:

    “The very question of is Islam compatible with democracy is quite, quite flawed...the answer should be any religion is compatible with democracy, of course, because it's a matter of interpretation.” (13:50)

• He likens debates over Islam's compatibility with democracy to similar, ultimately fruitless arguments about Christianity or other religions (14:50).

3. Nature and Outcomes of the Uprisings

• The main drivers of the Arab Spring’s initiation were liberal and left-wing forces, not religious ones; religious groups only later seized organizational advantage (06:40).
• Parliamentary democracies have arisen, but unique elements persist:
  • “Parliamentary democracy corrected by street politics, by the will, the direct will of the people.” (17:44)
• Achcar argues that it’s not surprising that better-organized Islamic groups won early elections given decades of leftist suppression (22:40).
  • He stresses historical contingency:

    “Before [the 1980s], they were not the hegemonic forces... In the 50s and 60s... the dominant forces were secular, left-wing, nationalist and communist parties.” (24:40)

4. Political Islam and Democracy: Fundamental Contradictions

• Achcar distinguishes between Islam as a religion and organized movements like the Muslim Brotherhood (31:30):

  • Their programs promote an “Islamic reference” framework for the state, fundamentally at odds with popular sovereignty and reversibility central to democracy (32:41).
    • Quote:

      "The very idea that legislation should be compatible with religious text, this very idea is contradictory with the very idea, with the core of democracy, which is the sovereignty of the people." (48:10)

• He points to Turkey (under the AKP) as a partial, unique exception – a break rather than a continuation of Muslim Brotherhood-style politics (34:15).

5. Human Rights: Universal or Culturally Relative?

• Achcar strongly supports the universality of human rights against cultural or religious exceptions:

  • Both Saudi Arabia and Iran reject the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as "non-Islamic" (36:29).
  • He quotes Amartya Sen:

    “It is completely misleading to portray these values of democracy and human rights as Western. They are not Western. They are... enforced in the West before other parts of the world because of historical reasons.” (38:44)

• Regional or religious opposition to universal rights is often a mechanism for oppressive regimes, not a genuine cultural claim (39:35).

6. Freedom of Speech and Critique of Religion

• Achcar rejects blasphemy laws and censorship, warning these would reverse fundamental freedoms (42:11):
  • Quote:

    "The very concept of blasphemy is actually setting us back for centuries..." (42:48)

• He stresses that the freedom to criticize religion is crucial for scientific progress, political emancipation, and women’s rights (44:03).

7. Secularism and State

• Achcar defends secularism (separation of religion and state) as essential to democracy; he rebuffs claims that secularism is a Western imperialist import (45:41).
  • Quote:

    “Secularism in the sense of the separation of religion and state is a basic prerequisite of democracy... because the very idea that legislation should be compatible with religious text... is contradictory with... the sovereignty of the people.” (48:01)

Memorable Quotes

• "Both the euphoria [after the Arab Spring] and the melancholy or depression are, I think, based on misjudging what is happening." — Gilbert Achcar (09:58)

• "The peoples of the region... aspire to democracy. And they not only aspire to democracy, but they are showing us, actually, I would say, a higher standard of democracy than the one we are used to." (16:45)

• "Had we looked at medieval, the medieval West, then we could have had the same ideas about the incompatibility of democracy or human rights or whatever, with its set of cultural values." (39:30)

• "Freedom to criticize religion is a key condition for all sorts of emancipation." (44:24)

Q&A Highlights and Timestamps

Q1. Leftist Attitudes Toward the Syrian Uprising

[51:49 – 58:36]

• Achcar criticizes segments of the left for misrepresenting the Syrian revolt as either Salafist-led or an "imperialist conspiracy."
  • Quote:

    "The idea that the Syrian uprising is dominated by Salafists... is at the very least extremely exaggerated."

• He connects such logic to Cold War-era support of repressive regimes under anti-imperialist pretenses.

Q2. Western Governments and Hypocrisy

[59:18 – 61:18]

• Western support for democracy is undermined by uncritical alliances with undemocratic states like Saudi Arabia.
  • Quote:

    "The Saudi Kingdom... is again the real antithesis of democracy, human rights, women rights, etc. And this is the touchstone. So all the rest is hypocrisy." (61:00)

Q3. Political Islam and Democracy—What’s Incompatible?

[61:18 – 65:00]

• Programmatic issues: The Muslim Brotherhood’s proposals to give Islamic scholars veto power over legislation conflict with democratic principles.
• Achcar rejects terms like "political Islam" and "Islamism" as orientalist and essentialist, advocating for the broader term "fundamentalism."

Q4. Meaningful Revolution—Social Values and Reversibility of Laws

• Achcar agrees that revolution must include social values embracing rule of law and human rights to ensure reversibility and genuine democracy.

Q5. Constitutional Risks in Tunisia and Libya

[68:43 – 70:50]

• There is a danger that constitutions currently being written will enshrine Islamist values for generations.
• However, Achcar sees hope in the emergence and resilience of street-level democracy and ongoing resistance to such one-sided constitutional drafting.

Q6. Zionism, Fundamentalism, and Democracy in Israel

[71:00 – 72:40]

• Zionism as a movement ranges from secular to fundamentalist; Jewish fundamentalism is not equal to Zionism.
  • Quote:

    "Zionism is democratic for the Jews... it can't be regarded as really democratic in the full sense... as long as you have second class citizen[s] and whole populations dispossessed and oppressed." (72:03)

Q7. Can Western Interventions Ever Be Altruistic?

[72:43 – 75:24]

• Achcar is skeptical:
  • "I don't think that military interventions by Western governments... can be purely motivated by humanitarian views."
• Past interventions reflect strategic and economic interests; true humanitarian action would happen elsewhere and less selectively.

Final Takeaways

• Religious and secular tensions are not unique to Islam or the Middle East; they are historically contingent and not essential.
• Universal human rights and secularism are necessary for true democracy and should not be dismissed as "Western".
• The Arab uprisings demonstrated deep, authentic democratic aspirations—but the victory of religious parties is due to historical, organizational, and financial factors, not cultural destiny.
• The fight over constitutions and public values is ongoing; the outcome remains open due to newly awakened public agency.

Notable Moment

“The reversibility of laws, like the revocability of rulers, are essential prerequisites of democracy. And if religion, which is sacred... is inserted into any constitution, this is in itself a contradiction with the democratic aspiration.”
— Gilbert Achcar (49:10)

Podcast episode link (for reference)