Spy Games and the Nature and State of the Russo-British Relationship

Podcast: LSE: Public Lectures and Events
Date: August 8, 2007
Host: Justin Guest
Guest: Professor Dominik Levin (Professor of Russian Government and History)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the contentious state of Russo-British relations in the aftermath of the Litvinenko poisoning and related diplomatic disputes. Host Justin Guest and Professor Dominik Levin discuss the logic behind so-called "spy games," the impact of historic grievances, cultural divides, and the long-term implications for bilateral and wider European relations. The conversation is rich with comparative historical insight, skepticism toward media narratives, and a focus on the contrast between spectacle and genuine strategic interest.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rationality vs. Vengeance in Russian "Spy Games"

[00:01–01:35]

• Question: Are recent Russian actions, such as the Litvinenko case, driven by irrational vengeance or cold rationality?
  • Levin: The notion of "rational" in international affairs can depend on the actor—what is rational for an individual, organization, or the state may differ.
  • Quote:

    "It could be a perfectly rational act for the individuals or the organizations involved that might not at all have much to do with national interest as defined by God. [...] It's unlikely that Putin himself, or what one might describe as the Russian state, were directly involved..."
    —Prof. Levin, 00:39

• Litvinenko had challenged powerful groups, making him a target for more than just the state.

2. Extradition of Andrei Lugovoy & its Messages

[01:35–03:20]

• Question: Was Russia's refusal to extradite Lugovoy a message to dissidents or just diplomacy?
  • Levin: Extradition was never realistic. Both sides have denied extradition requests in the past.
  • The Russian perspective is rooted in principle and reciprocity—Britain has harbored Russian critics, which they see as hypocritical given their own history of suppressing dissent during colonial conflicts.
  • Quote:

    "There was never any chance that the Russians were going to extradite Lugovoy. [...] If...another state had given protection and then citizenship to some of these people, the British would have gone absolutely crazy."
    —Prof. Levin, 01:53

3. Was Britain “Politicizing” the Litvinenko Case?

[03:20–04:52]

• Question: Are British responses driven by politics or by legitimate outrage?
  • Levin: The British government couldn't ignore a public assassination, especially one that exploited sensitive fears (radioactive materials, terrorism).
  • The spectacle of the murder seemed intentionally designed for maximum publicity.
  • Quote:

    "The murder was staged in a way to achieve the absolute maximum publicity. [...] The British public is completely hysterical at the moment about dirty bombs..."
    —Prof. Levin, 03:30

  • Uncertainty remains as to why such a dramatic method was chosen.

4. The Cultural Divide: British vs. Russian Mentalities

[04:52–06:42]

• Question: Does this incident reflect a deep cultural rift between the UK and Russia?
  • Levin: Yes, but it is historical as much as contemporary. The UK and Russia have long had different expectations and methods, but both have engaged in questionable acts in times of imperial decline.
  • He draws parallels to British actions in Kenya and Northern Ireland, acknowledging that the context and scale may differ.
  • Quote:

    "Although there is a big cultural divide, you wouldn't necessarily be quite so sure about talking about completely different methods if you were looking at some of Britain's colonial...wars..."
    —Prof. Levin, 05:06

5. Effects on the EU-Russia Partnership

[06:42–07:56]

• Question: Will the extradition standoff impact upcoming EU-Russia talks?
  • Levin: The Lugovoy affair is a minor issue compared to the broader integration of former Soviet states into the EU and the looming question of Ukraine's future.
  • Intelligence matters could escalate the issue, but likely it's not significant in the grand scheme.
  • Quote:

    "There are a whole range of more important issues...this is actually a relatively trivial issue."
    —Prof. Levin, 06:53

6. Long-Term Impact on Russo-British Relations

[07:56–10:41]

• Question: Will this crisis leave a lasting scar?
  • Levin: No; current tensions reflect larger shifts (failure of Russia to become a stable democracy, British expectations), but Britain is not important enough to Moscow for enduring hostility.
  • The real, enduring issues are pan-European, especially economic integration and responses to global instability (e.g., China, terrorism).
  • The presence of a wealthy, politically active Russian community in London is a novel element but not a complete parallel to previous eras.
  • Quote:

    "The big issues...are the integration of the German, French, Central European economies with Russia. That, in the long term, is very important indeed. [...] Litvinenko is obviously rather minor."
    —Prof. Levin, 08:12

Memorable Moments and Notable Quotes

• Comparing Murders:

  "One of my former PhD students was murdered, you know, in Moscow for doing less than Litvinenko did."
  —Prof. Levin, 03:30

• On Cultural Double Standards:

  "It was all hidden behind a polite facade of, you know, law and order...flatly denied by governments at the time."
  —Prof. Levin, 01:53

• On Lasting Importance:

  "With common sense on both sides, [relations are] rooted in certain common interests, partly economic, but also...an interest in combating various forms of terror..."
  —Prof. Levin, 08:12

Segment Timestamps

• Rationality of Spy Games: 00:01–01:35
• The Extradition Controversy: 01:35–03:20
• Politicization of Litvinenko Case: 03:20–04:52
• Cultural Division: 04:52–06:42
• Broader Europe/EU Context: 06:42–07:56
• Long-term Bilateral Impact: 07:56–10:41

Tone & Style

The conversation is thoughtful, measured, and historically aware. Professor Levin refuses simplistic narratives, frequently using counterexamples and historical parallels to challenge assumptions, and maintains a mildly skeptical, reflective style.

Key Takeaway

While media attention on the Litvinenko case and "spy games" is intense, Professor Levin argues that such incidents are more reflective of deep-seated history, differing narratives, and shifting world orders than of any imminent or lasting breakdown in Russo-British relations. The real shaping forces are structural: the remaking of Europe, rising new powers, and enduring interests that will call for pragmatic cooperation between London and Moscow, however fraught their spy novels may be.