Stuff White People Like - How to find social success with the urban-dwelling middle classes

Charlie Beckett

Welcome to the lse. My name is Charlie Beckett. I run Polis, which is the media think tank here at the London School of Economics. And indeed, on this Friday we've got the BBC journalist George Alagaier, who presents BBC Six o' Clock News and he'll be giving a lecture in the old theatre and you're all very welcome to come to that. It starts at 6:30. George is an extremely experienced journalist who has some stimulating, if not controversial, views on multiculturalism and the media. His subject is going to be news and identity. So in a kind of funny sort of way that sort of, I think, links into tonight, Polis. We do a lot of work on how journalism reflects and impacts on society. And I specialise particularly in media change, the idea of new media. I even wrote a book called Supermedia, which was about how new media technologies offer opportunities to communicate in different ways that could even be of some sort of social benefit. Which again, in a strange way brings us to Stuff White People Like. Because I think, okay, it's not the Huffington Post, but I think it does represent what the Net can do. As Christian's going to explain, it became a global hit pretty much by accident. It's very clever, it's insightful and people actually enjoy also looks at things differently and I think that's of all very Internet qualities. And of course it's also a very strange night to be having a talk called Stuff White People like because as most of you know, as we speak, the BBC is recording a Question Time edition with somebody from the racist BNP who will be appearing on it. So I think it's even more of a pleasure that a you're not protesting outside BBC Television Centre and that we've got somebody who can talk about identity with a sense of humour. So over to Christian Lander. Thanks very much.

Christian Lander

Well, thanks everybody for coming out tonight. This is an amazing crowd. I want to thank the LSC for having me. And before I get started, I would also like to say that there's a post in this book that stopped me from speaking at Oxford. They actually said that this post was so offensive that it was not, that it wouldn't let me speak. There's some context on this entry, but I'm going to read it first and then you can let me know if you think Oxford was right. Post number 11. Asian girls. 95% of white males have at one point in their lives experienced yellow fever. Many factors have contributed to this phenomenon, such as guilt from head taxes, internment camps, dropping the nuclear bomb and the Vietnam War. This exchange works both ways as Asian girls have a tendency to go for white guys. White girls never go for Asian guys. Bruce Lee is the only recorded instance in modern history. Asian girls often do this to get back at their strict traditional fathers. There's the option of dating black guys, but they know deep down that this would give their non English speaking grandmothers a heart attack. White men love Asian women so much they'll go to extremes like stating that Sandra oh is sexy, teach English in Asia, play in a co ed volleyball league, or attend institutions such as ubc, dubbed the University of a Billion Chinese, or ucla, the University of Caucasians living among Asians. Another factor that draws white guys to Asian women is that white women are jealous of them. Take for instance the fact that Asian women well into their 30s and 40s retain teen or college girl looks without the help of Botox, yoga or a trendy diet. Asian women also avoid key white woman characteristics such as having a midlife crisis, divorce, and hobbies that don't involve taking care of the children. When a white guy and Asian girl marry, they produce hybrids that are aesthetically pleasing but often very annoying. This practice is also a means by which white people can catch up to the Asian peoples in the population race, as the hybrids often act white rather than Asian. So that essentially got me banned from Oxford. But here's the caveat that was actually written by my friend Miles, who is a Filipino. So also for the record, he is a racist. I want to make sure that that's. That everyone knows that he's racist against Asians and white people. He's an angry, angry man. So. And the other thing is kind of a funny story. So that line in there about people who are half Asian, half white being annoying was actually directed in a very specific girl that Miles had a crush on named Lindsey Hallman. So tonight I just wanted to get all of that cleared up right away. So if anyone was here to stab me for the racism, to let you know that it was Miles and not me who did that. So what I'm going to talk about tonight is I'm going to tell you guys the story first of all about how this happened, how this went from a joke with me and Miles into a book and all the crazy stuff that's happening. And then I'm going to talk a little bit more about what the book means and sort of what the jokes are about and why I think it took off. So the way it all started. Usually I have a chalkboard and I can write down dates, the important date Most of you have notepads, it looks like. So the important date is January 18, 2008. Everyone got that on that date. Miles and I were having an instant messenger conversation. I was working in LA as a copywriter and Miles is in Vancouver working for ea, the video game company. And we were just talking back and forth over instant messenger and we were talking about the TV show the Wire, which is 85 in the book. We both love it. And it's, you know, it's a show about. It's a gritty crime drama set in Baltimore. And Miles, as I pointed out before, who was a racist, said he didn't trust any white person who didn't watch the show. And being used to this sort of stuff for Miles, I was like, yeah, that makes sense, you know, because I watch the show. So, like, I'm in the inner circle. And then we started saying, well, what are they doing instead of watching the Wire? First things we came back like, oh, they're doing yoga, they're going to therapy, they're getting divorced. And it was that last line that white people are too busy getting divorced to watch the Wire that I thought was so funny that I just said, all right, Myles, you know what? That's it, it's blog time, let's do it. So on that day, I went to WordPress, which is a free blog hosting site, 100% free, anybody in the world can sign up for one. And I just typed in, without thinking, stuff white people like, that was it. Stuffwhitepeoplelike.WordPress.com and started writing. And I don't know if it was pent up self loathing or outward hatred for white people, but I couldn't stop writing. All of this stuff just kept coming out. And so in about the first week, we had 18 or 25 entries really, really quickly, just all this stuff was coming out. And at that point I thought, you know what, I actually have something here that I think is kind of funny. I am going to send this to all of my friends. So I prepared an email and I cc'd 20 people on it, the full amount of my friends at the time. And I said, you know, because I didn't want to annoy them by sending them everything I do on the Internet, but I thought this was good enough. So I said, all right, here it is, here's the new thing. I'm doing stuff white people like, what do you think of it? And the amazing thing happened was the next day they wrote back. They'd forwarded it on to their Friends and I always talk about this being sort of the magic moment when you have something special on the Internet. Getting your friends to forward it on is not hard. They're going to do it out of guilt, or at least they're going to lie and say they did it out of guilt. But what had happened was their friends, who didn't know me and had no stake in the site whatsoever, started forwarding him. And so I thought, wow, we might really have something. And I was looking at the traffic on the site and about the first week, week and a half, and we were getting 100, 150 hits. Most of them were misguided searches for organic coffee. Whatever works, you know. Although I did once have someone was looking for a KitchenAid stand mixer and they found my site by accident. They wrote me this long email about how awful I was because I was preventing them from finding the color that they wanted to match the rest of their kitchen. So these were the early hits, you know, getting 100, mostly misguided and all that stuff. And then it started growing from there from 100, it went up to 1,000 hits a day. And I could, this was about two weeks into starting it and I couldn't believe it. A thousand hits. This is incredible. And so the guy sitting next to me was an account manager, I was a copywriter. And I told him, I'm getting about 1,000 hits of data on this site. He's like, I. He said, really, you should put some ads on that site. You could make like 60 bucks a month. And I was like, awesome, that's a sushi dinner at least in Los Angeles, maybe not here. And so I thought, fantastic. So I went to the domain registrar And I registered two domains, stuffwhitepeoplelike.com, which is normal. And then I registered because I'm a smart ass. I registered stuffwhitepeoplelike.org because I used to think.orgs were required by nonprofits. Like all nonprofits had a.org like moveon.org, and I was hoping that we could have this joke thing that, you know, we're a non profit organization for the study of white people, when in reality we are a for profit organization for the study of white people. And so I registered the two domains and I signed up for the $4.99 a month hosting and off it went, got a couple ads running up there. I'm like, Alright, $60 a month, this is going to be repeated, this is going to be great. And what had happened on that Day. The site, once you dropped the. So from when you first looked at it, it was stuff white people liked WordPress.com and now that WordPress was gone, it was just stuffwhite People like dot com. So you coupled that with the fact that the blog got linked to from Good Magazine, which is Al Gore's Sons magazine's blog, and Comedy Central, which is, you know, the channel that gives us south park and Chappelle show from their website. And so Traffic jumped from 1,000 to 30,000 in one day, which was, of course enough to violate the terms of service on my 499 hosting account. So you can imagine I'm sitting there and I've created this thing that is now doing amazingly well, and it's a blank screen. So I have to call them up and say, what's going on? I mean, I paid you $4.99. Why isn't my site up? And the guy on the other end goes, oh, yeah, you completely violated your terms of service. What are you running here, some sort of E commerce site? And I go, no, no, no, it's a blog. Pause on the other end. Is it an adult blog? And I go, no, no, no. It's just, you know, I'm just talking about white people with some stock photos. He's like, yeah, no, that's not what you're doing. It's going to be $1,000 a month to host to this level. And I go, all right, I can't. I can't do that. So I sent it back to WordPress and, you know, up to 30,000. And I'm thinking, this is amazing. This can't get any bigger. This was an amazing day. To be a little blip on the world of Internet culture was incredible. But it kept growing. So I was doing interviews for, you know, the LA Times, and I was doing an NPR interview, you know, National Public Radio in the US and it was just. Every day it was getting bigger. So it was up from 30,000, then it was up to 100,000. And this was happening in mid February, right? So about a month after we launched, then it jumped up to 300,000 and then 400,000 hits in a day. Now all of this is happening a month after I started this site. And then it got interesting. Towards the end of February, I started getting emails to the site from literary agents in New York saying we wanted to turn this into a book. And I thought, oh, my God, this is incredible. You know, I spent four years in graduate school. It's been my lifelong dream. To write a book that people read. And so I was really shocked that this was happening. And then it got really interesting. At the end of the month, I started getting contacted by the big talent agencies in Hollywood, in Beverly Hills. So at the time, there were five major talent agencies in la. Caa, UTA Endeavor, William Morris and icm. Within a couple days in late February, four of the five said they wanted to represent me and the fifth called two weeks too late. So this is where it gets interesting. So I said, okay, I'd love to come in and meet with all of you guys. Now this is a huge deal. I mean, these are the agencies that represent Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt and Quentin Tarantino and everybody. And so, you know, even just to get in them is a huge accomplishment in la. To get them to want to represent you is an enormous accomplishment. I couldn't believe it. So I took a day off of work on March 1st to go meet with all of them. Now here's the interesting part. I don't drive a car in Los Angeles. I ride a bicycle. A fixed gear bicycle, if that surprises any of you. Now, for those of you that haven't been to Los Angeles, this would be like driving a UFO in the uk. This is not done. So as I'm setting up these meetings, I'm calling all these agencies and they're telling me they're giving me valet instructions and I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not going to need that. I'm biking up there and they say, oh, you'll still have to valet your motorcycle. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no regular biking. And they're like, yeah, sure. So I take the day off and the first stop I go to is caa. And CAA is nicknamed the Death Star. It is the most powerful, intimidating agency in all of la. They're located on a street and I kid you not, called Avenue of the Stars. Think about that for a minute. And their building is just this sort of big rectangle like this, and they have this long circular driveway. So I'm coming up there on my bicycle, mind you, and I'm weaving in between Hummers and Maseratis and I am petrified I'm going to scratch one of them. And I get the get to the front gate and I'm on my bike. And believe it or not, there's no bike parking at caa at the front, there's no bike locks anywhere. And then I look over to my left and I see the valet. And I think for a second, am I that guy? Can I be that guy? Can I toss him the keys and say, don't scratch it, asshole? And so I stood there for a second and I was like, I may not get a chance to do this. But I couldn't. I just, I couldn't do it. It was a fixed gear bike. He may not have known how to ride it. He might have crashed it. So I decided I was going to bring it in. So I bring the bike inside. Now, CA the first floor is all marble. And I don't know if you've ever tried to bring a bike with rubber tires onto a marble floor, but it will piss off a security guard very fast. So within about a second of being in the building, a security guard stops me and yells, hey, asshole. He actually called me an asshole. Asshole. Bike off the floor. So I have to pick the bike up and it's over my shoulder. Now think about this for a second. I'm now walking towards the reception at CAA with a backpack and a bike over my shoulder. And I get to the desk and I say, hi, I'm Chris. Deliveries are in the back, sir. And I was just thrown for a second and I'm like, no, I actually have a meeting. And they're like, oh, you're the bike guy. So they all sort of knew me. So then I had a meeting. And then I have a few others that were fairly uneventful. And then the last one I met at was William Morrison. And they're not quite as intimidating a building as caa. So again, I get to their offices. There's nowhere to lock my bike in the front, so I have to bring it in again. I get inside and I look over just to the right of me and there's sort of a few chairs set up. And in those chairs are three guys who are obviously actors. They're tall, which is a big problem because I have a real grudge against tall guys. I'm convinced if I was six' two, my life would be 30% better. I mean, it's been pretty good so far, but still, if I was taller, it'd be better. So I already don't like these guys. And they have expensive shoes on, pre faded, pre ripped jeans, they have an Ed Hardy shirt on, sport coat over it. And the part that killed me the most is I looked at their facial hair. Now I have a beard and I'm very proud of my beard. It's the source of the majority of my power. And so I'm always looking at other people's beards sort of Comparing and seeing what they have, because I can't grow hair here or in the middle, so I'm like a matador, you know what I mean? It just doesn't match up. So I always try and look over to see other people's beards, and I rate them and I see where they are. It's like how I rate people's bikes versus mine. And these guys, all three of them, perfect, perfect, perfect beards. I don't know how they cut the stubble to that length to get it just right, but it was thick. It was like Don Johnson. You know what I mean? It was amazing. And then they had that hair that looks wet and messy but perfect at the same time. And so I look over at them, and I'm trying to get my bike helmet into my backpack while my bike is falling over. Look at this. And they're just looking at me with such disgust, like, absolute disgust. So I bring my bike over and I sit down in the chair. And I mean, I'm so nervous. I'm like, at a Hollywood agency. I can't believe this. So I have my bike right there, and I got my helmet, and I look over at the guys and I go, what's up? I mean, what are you going to do? Right? And then they're there, and they give me one of these. Nothing, right? Nothing. So now I feel awful. So I wait a little bit, and then an assistant comes down and says, christian, come on up. They're ready for you. Now, in this story, you may have missed a very small but important point. In la, it's very much about power and about who's more important. And so the amount of time that you wait in an office is directly proportional to how important you are. Now, remember the part of the story how I said they were there when I got there? So I got up and I looked over at their faces and those perfect beards looked back at me like this. And I know in their head they're thinking, who is this guy? Why is he so important, at least for this day? And I can't tell you, it was the greatest feeling of my life. It was like I dunked on all three of them, you know, like. Like Vince Carter dunked on that French guy in the Olympics. I pulled the backboard down. It was. It was a total and complete victory. So this was March 1st of 2008. Remember, the blog was started January 18th of 2008. This is March 1st, 2008. So now I have an agent. By the end of the month, the agents had put Together a book deal with Random house. So on March 31st of 2008, I got to quit my job. So again, for the timeline, January 18, March 31 was all it took. Literally happened overnight. It was unbelievable. So I got to quit my job. Random House US gave me a wonderful 30 days to write the second half of the book. I suppose they wanted to capitalize, but it was no problem. I mean, I'm writing about, you know, I didn't have to have footnotes. So it went really, really quickly for me. I dropped out of graduate school, just for the record. So anyway, so I submitted the first manuscript on May 1, 2008. Then we spent a month of revisions where we started adding things to the book, like the how to name a white child flowchart, what's in that campus grocery bag, White migration logic, the annotated white bibliography. All of these things were worked out in that month. Submitted the final manuscript on June 1, 2008. The book was published in the US on July 1, 2008. So from concept to publication, six months. Then on July 14, the book was a New York Times best seller. Six months from something that I started as a joke to entertain Miles and a few of my friends became a best selling book. And I have no connections. I didn't know anyone at Good magazine or at Comedy Central. I just started this as a joke and amazingly it caught on and turned into this book. And so it's July, and I'm thinking, wow, this is pretty great. Can't get any bigger than this. This is awesome. Then it does. In August, I get a phone call from my publicist. Well, sorry, Rand, I don't actually have a publicist. I'm trying to sound bigger than I really am. It's a person who works for Random House in publicity and handles me along with like 18 other people. But it sounds better when I say my public. But I get a call. I say, I just talked to the producers of Conan o'. Brien. They want to have you on the show. And I am floored. I am a lifelong fan of Conan o'. Brien. He has red hair, he gets a pass on the tall guy thing. And I am absolutely just amazed that I get the chance to be on the show. And I can't believe it's like, September 6th, you're going to be on the show. So I did what all of you would do if you found out you were going to go on the show. I went on the website and I hit refresh every five seconds to find out who the other guests were. Going to be right. It's a Friday show. It could be anybody. You know, I keep refreshing and I keep refreshing and I keep refreshing. And it comes back Jerry o'. Connell. Now, I don't know if you know who Jerry o' Connell is. He's one of the finest actors in American cinema. He was on a TV show called Sliders. That was wonderful. And it has particular relevance to me as a Canadian, because he was on a TV show in Canada called My Secret Identity. And in this show, he was a kid who had powers. Powers where he could run really fast and he could fly if he sprayed two aerosol cans downward. I should point out that domestic television production is subsidized by our government, and this is what we get. He was also in the movie Stand By Me. I don't know if you've ever seen this film. And he was a fat kid. Like, he was the fat kid in Stan Bimon. And he's just. He's amazing because I was a fat kid. And so he's like this hero to fat kids everywhere that you can look like that at 12 and look like he looks like now. And he married a swimsuit model, right? So fat kid hero. I'm super excited. And then the other guest is Tim Gunn from Project Runway. The American. No, no, no, no, no, no. That is a reality show. Jerry O' Connell has been making quality movies since 1986 and television. No, Tim Gunn was a lovely man when I met him, but I wasn't as impressed. So. So I'm super excited. So here it is. So, like, this thing that I started as a joke that I can't believe. I'm in New York, and I'm in the dressing room at Conan o', Brien, and I'm just trying not to throw up cookies in front of me. And I'm just like, don't. Don't freak out. But what do I do right when you're backstage? Because I. I want to talk to Jerry o', Connell, man. He was the fat kid, and so I don't know what's right. Do you go up to his dressing room and you're like, hey, hey, Jerry. Remember when you were fat and now you're like, not fat? I'm so awesome. You don't do that, right? I don't know what the etiquette is. So I'm just sitting there. I'm like, just don't throw up. Don't have a panic attack. And I'm in there with my agent who looks like me, but he's about this tall. Anyone want to guess who I signed with? William Moore. And at my door is Jerry o'. Connell. And he starts going. Looking at my agent going, are you the stuff white people like, guy? Are you the stuff white people like, Guy? And my agent just points up at me, and he starts gushing. He's like, oh, my God, it's the funniest site. I read it all the time. It's so incredible. Oh, the one you wrote about shorts was so brilliant. It was so funny. I'm trying to get one word in. I'm trying to be like, you would get the Beyonce movie. Nothing. I got nothing. I get nothing in. And he's like, oh, man, that was amazing. Look, I gotta get out there and go do the show, but stick around afterwards. I got some people I want you to meet. All right, I'm out. Boom. And he's gone. Just as soon as he arrives, he's gone. And, you know, so I'm like, wow, that was unbelievable. And so Jerry goes out there, does what Jerry does. Totally rips it. Just tears up. He's hilarious. And everything I tell you from this period on is Based on the TiVoed episode I have because I blacked out for the entire time. I don't remember any of this happening. So I get out on stage, and I need to make sure you understand the layout of the stage. So you would be Conan o', Brien, if that's okay, for the layout here. I would be here, Tim Gunn would be here, and Jerry o' Connell would be here. This will become relevant, I promise. So I get out on stage, and I'm talking to Conan. And, you know, I'm making jokes about farmers markets and things like that, and. And Tim Gunn. And Tim Gunn is just politely smiling like, yes, that's very true. We do like those sort of things. But Jerry o' Connell is losing it. He literally falls off his chair laughing. And I look over for a second. I'm, like, freaked out. All right. I don't know what's going to happen next. And so the next question is, Conan asks me, because Tim Gunn's there. He's like, well, what are some clothes that white people like? Because, you know, Tim Gunn's there. And I feel this. I feel this hand on my. I'm wearing a cardigan because I wear a lot of cardigans. And I feel his hand, and I look over. Jerry o' Connell has reached across Tim Gunn and is pinching my sweater. And he's like, sweaters, sweaters, sweaters. And I don't I don't know. I don't know what he's doing. I'm just like this. Then I look back at Conan and go, uh, shorts. And Jerry falls off the chair again. He's loving it. So I get. I get through the rest of the interview. You know what I mean? I don't vomit. I don't pass out. It's great. And I'm backstage and it was. It was. It was great just hanging out. And then I hear Christian turn around, there's Jerry o' Connell again. And he goes, there's some people I want you to meet. And I go, oh, yeah. He goes, oh, it's my parents. It was seriously his parents. And they both wore. You know how architects all wear really weird glasses, right? They both had architect glasses on. And he's like, oh, hang on, I gotta take this call. So I'm left alone backstage with Jerry o' Connell's parents. And we just start talking about Toronto, because that's where My Secret Identity was filmed. Like, oh, yeah, that is a great neighborhood. Oh, I'm glad you had a really good time. How do I end this? And Jerry comes back and he goes, look, man, let me get your info. When we all get back to la, we should all go out for dinner. And it's me and Jerry and his wife, and me and my wife. My wife's very, very pretty, but she's short and pale. It's sort of how we do. Gerry o' Connell is married to Rebecca Romijn, who was mystique in X Men, and a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model. And I'm taking down the information. I'm thinking, all right, Jerry, this is never happening. Because I know that they're famous and they will draw paparazzi taking photos. And I had this fear strike me of being at the supermarket checkout and looking at Us magazine or OK Magazine and seeing a photo of all of us. And the caption reads, jerry o' Connell and Rebecca Romain participate in the couples edition of the Make a Wish Foundation. And so I know there's no way this is going to happen. There is no possible way this is going to happen. Then a few weeks later, I'm on another American talk show called the Carson Daly Show. It's on at 2:30 in the morning. And to give you an idea of how prestigious it is, I was the premier guest on the show that night. And I'm in the dressing room, and in the dressing room, you. He's a picture of Jerry o'.

Audience Member

Connell.

Christian Lander

Like, he's singing and My wife's like, look, you have to email him. You are never going to get another non weird opportunity to send him an email. So I'm like, okay, let's do it. So I take out my little phone and I type in a message. I'm like, hey, Jerry, I'm going to be on the Carson Daly show tonight. There's a picture of you in the dressing room. I thought that was kind of funny. Hope everything's well, Christian. Send. Beep. Awesome. I'm gonna TiVo it right away. And he loved it. I'm just looking at this, like, did this really happen? And then it got a little weirder. So I was doing a book tour through the US and I was in St Louis and I was doing an interview with a local alternative newspaper. And just a quick Q and A. And she's like, you know what? I'm gonna send you an email when this is up. You know, thanks for the interview. It was great. I go, awesome. So I tell, you know, I tell the story about Jerry o' Connell and all this stuff, and I'm in my hotel room and I get an email from her, you know, a couple days later. And it says, oh, Christian, the story's up. And I have to write back, oh, I've already seen this. Jerry o' Connell sent it to me. Which means one of two things. Jerry o' Connell either has a Google alert set up for Jerry o' Connell or a Google alert set up for Christian Lander. Either way, I appreciate it. And so that was that year of all the crazy media stuff that happened. And in that time, the book was then published later that year in Australia. Then it was published in the Netherlands, and then it was published in Japan. And it is my dream that it becomes a textbook. It is my absolute fantasy to be at LAX and see Japanese businessmen coming off the flight in like, Arctic Monkeys T shirts, you know what I mean? And asking to be taken to a local organic coffee shop. Fingers are still crossed on that one. Not sure if that's happening yet. And then now, most recently, it's been published in the uk, which is incredible. And the show was optioned to become a television program in the US by the same people who did the show, Arrested Development. And it's in early stages. It's not. Nothing's guaranteed. But we have to submit the pilot script to Fox next month, so fingers crossed. And that's what happened. That's the story of the last year. Now that's the fun part. Here's the awesome part. Now I have to do my best to sort of explain why this happened and what it is about this book or about the site and the book that really connected with people. So there's a few things that are that jump out right away. Number one is in the US the left is really, really badly satirized by the right. They never get it right. And so when this came out, it was really strange to me to see who was picking up on it. So obviously, the people I'm making fun of, you know, me, thought it was funny, which was great. Conservatives found it funny, and probably the most disturbing. I found out that it had been linked to from a white supremacist site. They found it to be pretty funny, which was kind of awful. And I looked at the comments they had, and they had suggestions that should have been added to the list. The suggestions included pure white babies and living with my own kind. And I don't. I mean, what do you do in that situation? Right? I mean, they just. They linked to me, so I can't really do anything about it. But I was like, what on earth have I done here? And then another reason that I think it found success in America and, you know, around. You know, around the White World, was that the title. So stuff white people like. What happened when a lot of people heard about it was they went to the site and they had these expectations of these old, old, old stereotypes about white people. They're like, great. The site's gonna be about what, golf and mayonnaise and dancing like this and, like, following the rules. You know what I mean? Like, all these. All these old, you know, NASCAR guns, trailer parks, wherever you want to go with it. And it'd be all this old stuff. And then they would go to the site and they would click through and it'd be like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Did I leave my webcam on? And so it was interesting. It was that experience of people, especially this group of people, of which I am one, who has spent their entire lives being so convinced they're completely and utterly unique individuals. Absolutely. There's no one else on earth like them. And then you see this site and they're like, uh, oh, there's a lot of people exactly like me. And it was that experience that people wanted to share, or they wanted to shame their friends and say, look, there you are. You've been categorized. You're a stereotype. And then another one was what the writing was about. And one of my favorite things to expose was talking about this new level of competition between white people and White people, for the most part are really competitive. You know, this goes way back, but we are. I'm not kidding about this. But where this race against each other, this competition was about money. The old keeping up with the Joneses mentality, you tried to have the bigger car, the bigger house, the higher paying job, etc. Had been sort of replaced with this competition of culture and taste. So instead of having the bigger car, it's having the better music on your ipod, or having a better bookshelf, or having traveled to more places or having the smaller carbon footprint and you start taking these things. Yes, it's important to have a small carbon footprint or eating them more organically, but what you do is you take these things which are inherently good, or that you're a new level of vegetarian, right? Like you've now cut out another thing from your diet, so you're now better than your neighbor who still eats processed flour, right? And it's cutthroat. Believe me, it's absolutely cutthroat. The joke I always make about this is that white people would rather have you rifle through their medicine cabinet than their bookshelf because you can go to rehab for Vicodin, you can't go to rehab for Danielle Steele. And so it's just this insane competition that leads nowhere. But at the same time, what I'm a part of this is, I know it's stupid, I know it's pointless, but I can't stop. If you show me your ipod and I see Dave Matthews Band on there, it is over. You're dead to me.

Audience Member

Right?

Christian Lander

Like, you're have to work 10 times harder for me to like you now. Why, like, why should this matter so much? Why do I think you're an evil person for listening to this band? But I do, and I can't shake it. It's like. And if I see you holding a book and it's a Dan Brown book, I'm going to request that you're sterilized. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's so awful and snobby and I recognize it's awful and snobby, but I can't stop doing it. So there is this like this force that just says, here it is, but I can't change. And so these were some things that I think were fairly important in having become popular. And then of course, there's the big and most important part of the book, which is what it says about race and more importantly, what it says about class. This is where I think it really connected. And for me, it was really interesting writing this. So much of this came from my experiences of growing up in Toronto, Canada. I know we don't have Canadians in the audience some because they would have applauded. How are you guys not applauding? Usually you say Toronto anywhere, and someone will let out a woo or, you know, show the flag they've sewn on their backpack. Yes, we can make fun of ourselves. It's not racist. And so growing up in the city was really, really interesting. Toronto had changed in my lifetime. So Toronto had become, over the course of the 1980s, much like a lot of American cities like San Francisco or New York, the white working class was completely pushed out of the city. So that growing up in Toronto, the only white people in the city that I knew were the white people that I talk about in this book. I didn't meet my first conservative until I was 22 years old and living in the United States. He was my roommate. He was in law school. And I just looked at him. He was about 21 years old at the time, or 22 at the time. I was like, how are you this bitter at 22? You just want to try to save the world? So it was this world of. All white people were exactly the same for growing up in that city. But immigration had really changed the city as well. Toronto has a really huge Chinese population, Indian population, Jamaican population, et cetera. And all of this was played out at my high school, a wonderful high school in the heart of the city known as Jarvis Collegiate. This is important. We have three Jarvis Collegiate graduates right down here in the front. You can raise your hand. Yeah, there we go now. So the school was really, really interesting. The entire first floor of the school was esl, English as a Second Language. And it was fascinating because we got to see every ethnic conflict on earth play itself out at our school. Our school was also funny because we had a gym teacher with a sense of. I don't want to say humor. Maybe it's sadism, but he knew which students were Serbian and which ones were Croatian, and he would pair them up in the wrestling segment of our gym class. And news of that would spread like wildfire through the class. Ned and Marco, wrestling. Get down here right now. And so the school was this strange, this enormous mix of people. And now when I try and describe the school to America, this is really strange to a lot of Americans. I explained that at my high school, I played high school football, American football, for two years on varsity at offensive line. That's not made up, but when the school is predominantly Chinese and Sri Lankan immigrants, I am one of the bigger guys at the school, or at least one of the fatter guys at the school. The school was also interesting in that our football practice facility doubled as a landing pad for a hospital helicopter right next door. And it was too small to actually play games on. And it was also the area around the field was the main drag for transvestite prostitutes in the city. And we would practice in the morning and when we were practicing in the morning, they were finishing their shift, I guess, and every time we bent over, they whistled. When you're a 15 year old boy, it forces you to come to grips with your sexuality awfully quickly because you learn you have options. I mean, I didn't explore those options, but it was good to know they were there. And so, like I said before our school, we couldn't play our games because the field was too small. So we had to walk to a nearby public park to play our games and we had to walk through the gay part of Toronto in our uniforms. And let me tell you right now, gay guys can be so cruel. Now, being whistled at on the way to the game wasn't so bad, but walking back after we'd been throttled by a larger school was pretty rough. So anyways, you're getting this idea of the school a really odd urban school, but you had this amazing mix of people. So the school had recent immigrants to Canada, but also second, third, third generation Canadians. And what was amazing to me was if you were not white at our school and you liked anything in this book, with the possible exception of Asian girls, if you were in fact Asian, if you liked anything in this book, you were accused of acting white. You were called a banana, an Oreo, a coconut, or whatever food matched your skin color and was white on the inside. And so that was really interesting to me. And this inspired one of the posts I wrote in the book was on shorts, how white people like to wear shorts at inappropriate times. Like they break them out way too early in hopes that it can bring about spring. And that post came from, there was a student at our school named Long who was Chinese Canadian. Here we go. Cliff remembers Long, and Long was Chinese Canadian. And he loved Hacky Sack and camping and jam bands. And he would break out shorts in February in Toronto. And you better believe that every day Long was called a banana or a Twinkie. And so it was really interesting to see that this had happened. And now that's not to say that Long was ashamed of his Chinese heritage. Or trying to be white. He had just become part of this class, this upper middle class, and he'd acquired the taste for things like shorts and hacky sack and liberal arts degrees. And so it was really interesting so that when we were writing this blog and we were writing this book, the white component of it, using the title white was so important. So many people tell me things like, you know, you should actually call this stuff upper middle class, educated white people. Like, and my response is always, do you have any other suggestions to make it less funny? But it was so important for me to have this component of it tied in and to recognize that this class of people are a progressive group of people. And there's a belief that if you're part of this class, you're part of this upper middle class, that we're post racial, that it has changed because we're all progressive. I mean, we elected Obama, right? We fixed everything. Racism's over now, right? We need to tell those BNP people about this. But it was important to let it know that this class, in spite of being overwhelmingly progressive and in spite of being left wing and wanting to have all of these wonderful, wonderful progressive reforms, was still overwhelmingly white. So white, in fact, that the tastes of this class are branded as white in society as a whole. And, you know, I dealt with it in sort of a funnier way. You can deal with it in more serious way. If I'd stayed in graduate school, maybe I would have. But. But that was the point, that no matter how much you want to believe that you're not racist and you fix this, this class is still so white. And that says something about where power and money still lie in, you know, in these countries. And so that was one of the things I really, really wanted to get at. And I also wanted to get at white privilege in here, you know, the privilege that comes along with this. Because most white people hate being told they have privilege, and they really do. And so, for example, they like to believe that when we talk about white and wealth, that means the super wealthy, you know, people who sail and play polo and have trust funds and things like that, but they fail to recognize the privilege that comes along with being upper middle class. So, for example, a statement like this white people will believe is a result of hard work and not privilege. It was fantastic that I got that internship at the New Yorker this summer. Here's what I mean. It's an unpaid internship, right? So it's a privilege that lets you live in New York and pay a company to make photocopies for a summer, for a job that's going to pay you $30,000 a year. That's privilege. There's a privilege that comes with. There's a privilege that comes with getting an English degree. I know I have one. It's saying, I don't care about making money when I get out of here. I just care about looking sp smart, which is the real value of an English degree. You look so smart at dinner parties. It's so important. It's true. I have all this in here in the white annotated bibliography. There's short sentences about each book so that you don't have to read them, but you can sound intelligent about them. I've got you covered. So anyways, when it came to the theme of the book, we really wanted to write with these little tips for people who weren't white about how to exploit white people for personal gain. And so in our head we were thinking that we were writing this book for that first floor of Jarvis Collegiate, you know, about how to trick these white people into getting them to driving you to the airport or painting your house or doing favors for you and how you could use your ethnic status in order to have this happen. And now I'm going to read an entry from here to show you how it works, actually. Yeah, this is the one. So the entry in here is having black friends is something that white people like. Much has been made about the way that white people adore all aspects of black culture and history. These days, the majority of hip hop, jazz, blues and African American history fans are actually white people. Ask white people about Cornell west and they might be moved to tiers of respect. So it comes as no surprise that white people love having black friends. They serve many valuable functions. The most important role that black friends can play in white culture is that they can be used as physical evidence that white people are not racist. Did you know that if you're able to acquire a friend of every race on earth, then you are officially designated as the least racist person in the world? Though this is impossible, White people treat it the same way that Buddhists view enlightenment unattainable, but with great virtue in the attempt. Black friends can also be used to confirm that a white person is knowledgeable about African American culture. Many white people are constantly striving to be recognized as experts, and many consider it a life achievement to be befriended or acknowledged by a black person. But note, do not dole out your praise like pinata candy. Once white people have achieved this goal, it will be more difficult to manipulate. So it's best to tease them with little bits of praise balanced with a few barbs. I have to hand it to you, for example, I have to hand it to you for putting that KRS one on that party mix. I mean, you went with a pretty well known song, but still, good job. Also note that all white people fantasize about being brought to an authentic African American experience, such as a Baptist church or a barbecue restaurant in a neighborhood they're afraid of. Finally, an abundance of black friends, defined in white culture as two, enables a white person to be the resident expert on African American issues when there are no black people around. Moving beyond friendships, some white people actively seek out opportunities to begin romantic relationships with black people. Dating, marrying, and subsequently having a child with a black person is considered one of the greatest things a white person can do. It delivers a lifetime of opportunities to get offended and feel superior to friends with white white children. But it still ranks below adopting foreign children. So there's an example of some of the tips that you can use to encounter white people. So in doing all of this, giving these talks and having this website, there's been a response. Mostly positive, but not entirely positive. There's been a lot of negativity that comes along with it. And I would say I can divide up the people who hate me into three major categories. The first one, and probably my favorite category, are white people who consider me to be racist against other white people. So they'll send emails in like, you know what, man? I don't like sushi, I don't like LEED certified buildings, and I'm white, so you're racist. How dare you make stereotypes about me that don't apply to me. And to that, I always find it hilarious. I'm like, so you're offended that this stereotype doesn't apply to you? You know, I think. I think there may be a few other people on earth who can relate to this problem. Like an Asian guy who's bad at math. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. It's perfectly subtly bad at math. I'm terrible at it. And another group is, I get people who view the site as being elitist and the book as being elitist. I mean, if you look at how many pages it is and how big the font is, I don't know how you could possibly call it elitist, but they misinterpret the title as stuff only white people can like. And as I sort of talked about a little earlier tonight, that's not what I mean, at all. I mean, this is, this is white as a class and sort of saying, you know, you don't have to be white to be white, you just have to be rich. And so once I explain that, most people usually get it. And then the third group of people who hate me usually send in things like, everything you do is awful. Yeah, well, that explains it, number one. But they'll say things like, all stereotypes are bad. Every single stereotype is bad. What you're doing is terrible. You're setting us backwards. This is the worst thing you can be doing. Stop it right now. Shut down this site. I'm going to report you to the Canadian Hate Crimes Commission. Which did happen. Someone actually submitted my site to the Canadian Hate Crimes Commission in hopes that I would get prosecuted for it. Believe it or not, nothing happened. But these people, though stupid, are well meaning. And where their frustration comes from is it's based on the. Their frustration comes from the campaign we've had for a long time about preaching equality. And they're right in that, yes, everyone on earth deserves equal treatment, but the way they're misinterpreting it is they're seeing everyone is exactly the same. So we have to view everyone exactly the same. Recognizing difference is racism. And that's not true at all. When you start doing that, you end up creating more racism. It ends up being worse. And so I think it's a good thing to recognize difference. It's a bad thing to recognize difference as a point of hatred. And to that I talk about. There's spin off sites to stuff white people like. I don't have an affiliation with them, but some of them include stuff black people like, stuff Asians like, stuff Indians like, stuff gay people like, stuff hill people like, stuff unemployed people like, stuff Hollywood assistants like, stuff Dutch people like, stuff Mexican people like, stuff South American people like, and my personal favorite, white stuff people like. And they have entries on things like cocaine and sugar plaster. It's the only spinoff where I kick myself. I'm like, why didn't I just register the other domain? This would have been so easy. But in those cases, what those sites are doing and they're being written just like this one was from the inside about pointing up these things. Most of them don't have to be these life changing, hugely existential issues, but small things like we have in here, like vintage or Asian fusion food or plays or whatever. I mean, a lot of them are Apple products. A lot of them are these small pointless things that bind a group of people together. And so these sites are being written, like this book, by people of different races. And they are not being done to perpetuate stereotypes based on hatred. They're based from within. So I think it's a positive thing to recognize these differences because they're small and for the most part, they're fairly goofy. But at the same time, people have used this concept in the opposite way. So they'll do a site stuff black people like, and it'll all be the old horrible, awful, racist stereotypes that are meant to demean people. And that's wrong. And that's not what this site has done. And this site has never, ever tried to demean white people or to incite hatred against white people. And I had a commenter once when someone was trying to explain the difference about why it's okay to write this about white people was you've never been denied a job because you like yoga. And I think that kind of summarizes it about why it's acceptable to do this in this time and why it's been such a success. So, anyways, those are my short points. I have a few more that I want to read here. Some of them I think are particularly applicable to the uk or at least you'll recognize the people I'm talking about, possibly as overseas Americans or Canadians. So this is one of my personal favorites, number 80, the idea of soccer. Yes, I know all of you hate when we say soccer instead of football, but for the purposes of the book and me, this is how it's going down. But this is advice that all you Europeans and people from the UK can use when dealing with white people from North America. Many white people will tell you they're very into soccer, but be careful, it's a trap. If you attempt to engage them about your favorite soccer team or talk to them about famous moments in soccer history, you're likely to be met with blank stares. This is because white people don't actually enjoy watching soccer. They just like telling their friends they're into it. In fact, the main reason white people love soccer is so they can buy a new scarf. As you may or may not know, many soccer teams issue special scarves and white people cannot get enough of them. Most white people choose a favorite soccer team based either on a study abroad experience or a particularly long vacation to Europe or South America. When they return, they like to tell their friends about how great football is and that they are committed to getting more into it now that they've returned home. Some white people take this charade so far as to actually play an adult soccer, soccer leagues, or attend local professional matches. The best method for exploiting this tendency is to ask a white person who their favorite football team is and how they came to be a fan. This will allow them to tell you about their time abroad and feel as though they've impressed you with their knowledge. Once they have finished talking, it is acceptable to ask favors. Note European white people are actually into soccer and are exempt from this entry. However, they are free to use it to their advantage when in North America. America. Very true. The next one is this is one I see everywhere. I mean, it kind of makes sense, but it's a little ridiculous. Number 101 scarves white people's body temperatures do not operate on logical or consistent principles, and because of this, white people are often forced to wear clothing combinations that may seem strange or illogical. One popular example is the performance vest, which solves the age old problem of cold chest hot arms. Another common combination is shorts and a sweatshirt, which helps bring about comfort when your upper body is chilly and your lower half is sweltering. But without a doubt, the one piece of clothing that helps regulate white body temperature in all situations is the scarf. During winter months, it's no surprise to find white people all bundled up with scarves around their neck. It just makes sense. But even as the weather warms up and the other layers start to fall off, the scarf remains. It's not uncommon to see a white person in jeans, a sweater and a scarf. In fact, it's not a rare occurrence to see a white person in a T shirt, jeans and a scarf. That's right, a thin cotton T shirt paired with a scarf to enable maximum temperature control in bars and places with air conditioning. But not all white people wear scarves for temperature reasons. A well made scarf can be an essential part of a white person's ensemble, allowing for the all important differentiation from other white people wearing the exact same clothes, thus enabling one to be picked out of a crowd for dating or mocking purposes. I like the guy in the glasses with the white American Apparel shirt. Which one? There are eight. The guy with the keffiyah. Oh yeah, you're right. He does look smarter and more political than the other guys. He's clearly more sensitive to wind, so he's probably more sensitive in general. You should totally date him. In addition to making up a key part of the white person's work wardrobe, scarves also function as a vital pillar of the white gift economy. Knitted scarves can be created with relative ease. So many white people, especially Women like to knit them for friends and lovers. For this reason alone, if you find yourself needing a new scarf, but not a long term relationship, dating a white woman might be the easiest and most cost effective solution. So that one is. That one's very true. Hang on, I lost my. That's. Here's no. Where did I put that one? Hang on, give me a second here to find. You know, there's other stuff in here for documentaries, apologies, lawyers, kitchen gadgets, dogs, vintage irony, Sunday New York Times, liberal arts degrees. Hang on, let me go to the back. Also the back of the book, there's a test to find out exactly how white you are. And I have petitioned the government of all countries to use this on the census as I feel the old method is quite outdated. Ah, here it is. Another one of my favorites, number 88, page 88. Sorry, number 71. Being the only white person around. This concept ties heavily to number seven, diversity, and number 19, international travel. But it's important that you fully understand how white people view authenticity and experience. In most situations, white people are very comforted by seeing their own kind. However, when they're eating in a new ethnic restaurant or traveling to a foreign nation, nothing spoils their fun more than seeing another white person. Many white people will look into the window of an ethnic restaurant to see if there are other white people inside. It is determined to be an acceptable restaurant if the white people in there are accompanied by ethnic friends. But if there's a table occupied entirely by white people, it is deemed unacceptable. The arrival of these other white people at restaurants or vacation spots instantly means that lines will grow, authenticity will be lost, and the euphoria of being a cultural pioneer will be over. Being aware of this can be extremely valuable in your efforts to gain the trust of white friends and co workers. If you take a white person to an ethnic restaurant and another white person or a group of white people shows up, you can lose all respect and trust that you've worked so hard to acquire. Do your best to find a table with a divider or ask the waiter to put future white people out of sight. Note, this does not apply to nightclubs. Think about that one for a second. All right, one more in here that I think is a good one. Well, two more. Sorry, number 88, having gay friends. If white people could draft friends the way the NFL drafts prospects, it would go like black friends, gay friends, and then all other minorities would be drafted based on need and rarity in the region. When choosing gay friends, white people like to base their decision on their own needs and requirements. Younger white people tend to prefer young, social gay people. This is their all important ticket in nightclubs and parties. When straight people go to a gay nightclub, they're reminded of how progressive and tolerant they are. If they're hit on by a member of the same sex, it provides them with a valuable story that they can use to prove to their other friends that they are more progressive and tolerant. Oh, this guy hit on me. I said I was straight but not narrow and I was totally chill. Oh, you went to a pub this weekend? That's cool. I guess. Older white people prefer to be friends with gay parents because it enables their children to experience much needed diversity with people who are, for all intents and purposes, exactly the same as them. It's also worth noting that gay friendship of any sort allows white people to feel as though they are part of the gay rights movement. While white people love being a part of any movement, the gay movement is especially important to them because they can blend in at rallies and protests and spend an afternoon feeling the sting of oppression. Gay friends are an essential part of a white person's all star diversity roster, but white people are always on the lookout for the ultimate a gay minority. Above all, it is generally accepted that a gay black friend with a child is considered a once in a lifetime opportunity. White people will crawl all over each other for the chance to claim this person as a friend and add them to their roster of diversity. Once a white person has told you about their gay friends, it's recommended that you say I wish more people were like you. This will allow them to feel good about their progressive choice of friends and remind them that they are better than other white people. If you follow this simple rule, you should be able to maximize all the benefits of white friendship, including moving help and free drinks. So the last one I'm going to read before we open up for Q and a is number 90 dinner parties. Though many would have you believe that white people come of age at summer camp, it's simply not the truth. Immediately following graduation, but prior to renovating a house, white people take their first step from childhood to maturity by hosting a successful dinner party. It is imperative that white people know how to host a good dinner party as they will be expected to do it well into retirement. At the most basic level, these simple gatherings involve three to six couples getting together at a single house or apartment, having dinner and talking for five to six hours. Though it might seem basic, dinner parties are some of the most stressful events in all of white culture. Hosts are expected to deliver a magical evening. The food must be homemade with fresh organic ingredients. The music must be just right, edgy, new, but not too loud. And the decor of the house should be subtle but elegant. The ultimate goal is to do a better job than the couple who hosted the last dinner party while attempting to make everyone jealous and sort of disposal. Like you, the dinner party is the opportunity for white people to be judged on their taste in food, wine, furniture, art, interior design, music and books. Outside of dictatorships and a few murder trials, there might not be a more rigorous judgment process in the modern world. Everything must be perfect. One copy of OK, a McDonald's wrapper, a book by John Grisham, a Third Eye blind CD or an old school DVD can undo months and maybe even years of work. Even before guests arrive, the pressure on the host is immense and does not let up once dinner begins. While eating, drinking and conversation are expected to fill up five or six hours, sometimes it's just not enough. In order to fill the silence, white people often turn to board games or Wii bowling. This lets everyone have fun together without really having to talk to one another. It is strongly encouraged that you bring a gift to these dinner parties, usually either wine or some kind of dessert. If you're able to bring a particularly rare dish from your culture, you will be the star of the party. To seal the deal, be sure to explain as much as you possibly can about the dish, history, availability and the proper way to eat it. Every white person at the party will be taking mental notes and will be in your debt for introducing them something new and authentic. If a white person says they've eaten the dish before, it's best to respond by saying, you ate a watered down version. They don't even sell this to white people. It's that intense. Even I had a show id. The entire party will universally acknowledge you as the top guest. Even the host will appreciate you for bringing diversity to the table in the form of both food and person. So those are some of my favorites that I read and I want to thank you guys so much for coming out and listening to me. Oh, thank you. Okay, Not to suck up to you guys, but that's the nicest applause I've.

Charlie Beckett

Ever received and it's, it's intelligent, informed applause as well.

Christian Lander

Yes.

Charlie Beckett

I don't know if I'm somebody who works in the media. I'm married to somebody who works in the not for profit sector. I live in inner North London. I live in inner North London. I send my kids to the local State school. So I just spent the last 45 minutes ticking boxes. But anyway, questions please, to Christian.

Christian Lander

Yeah. Yes. Oh, wait, sorry.

Charlie Beckett

Just grab a mic. Yeah.

Christian Lander

So what's the next step for you? How would you expand on this idea in a next book or. The next step is total and complete obscurity. I have no. It's been great. I mean, from day one I never thought it would get this big or last this long. So I've. Hopefully the TV show takes off, but we'll see. I have no idea what's coming next and I. I can't think of anything that's going to top this. So I'm going to enjoy this while I can and then come back with a failed second book. Yeah, you.

Charlie Beckett

Yes. Just plow. Where have the mics gone?

Christian Lander

Sorry.

Charlie Beckett

Oh, wait, where are the microphones gone?

Christian Lander

Yeah.

Charlie Beckett

So yeah, if we just plow up the middle for a little bit. The lady there in the duffel.

Audience Member

Yeah.

Christian Lander

Hi. This is just. I wanted to ask two questions. One about identity. Basically, one of the reasons I wanted to ask is basically, do you think one of the reasons why your blog was also successful is because you were white as well? And how do you think that would have changed if you wasn't from. If you didn't. If you didn't speak from your perspective? And then the other thing is, on your travels, have you uncovered other additions that you'd like to add in the UK or everywhere? Just everywhere. Just in your experiences with the entertainment industry? Yeah, I mean, I'm always sort of looking. I mean, I usually use the mirror as the best source of inspiration, but I've seen a few things here and there. As far as me being white, it probably did help. But I know that in the beginning of the site when people didn't know who the author was, someone was posting, you know, about a thousand word essay on every post explaining why he thought I was an Asian American male. And I can't tell you the number of emails I got from people who were disappointed that I wasn't black. They thought, I mean, if I was, you know, if I was an American, an American, an American black guy who, you know, sort of spent his life in white culture and written this. It would have been a far more subversive book. It would have been. I can't even. I mean, the level of hate mail I get is kind of amazing. I can't even imagine what level it would be like, you know, if I was any different race. But I think it would have been far. The impact would have been much Bigger. And I think it would have made a bigger statement about sort of the changing nature of race in countries like UK and Canada and Australia about, you know, the differences to the middle class, but how it's still so overwhelmingly white. But yeah, believe it or not, being white has actually opened some doors.

Charlie Beckett

Just the guy behind and then anybody at the back next. Can we get a microphone to this guy there up next? Thanks very much.

Christian Lander

I was just trying to. I seem to remember that one of the reasonably early posts you had in.

Audience Member

Your blog in 2008 was Barack Obama.

Christian Lander

I'm just wondering, now he's been president for a while, do you think it's.

Audience Member

Still acceptable for white people to like him?

Christian Lander

Well, I mean, if you were to judge race based on a test in the back of this book, he's the first white president. I mean, he was raised by a grad student. They planted an organic garden at the White House. I mean, he's doing great. He drives a hybrid. Yeah, it's still totally awesome to like Barack Obama. And yeah, it's.

Charlie Beckett

Next one.

Christian Lander

I mean, who else are you going to like?

Charlie Beckett

The back guy.

Christian Lander

I was wondering, you mentioned some of.

Charlie Beckett

The critiques you've had.

Christian Lander

Yeah. And without sounding condescending, I'm wondering if anybody has accused you of being too condescending and how you replied to them to be condescending to people in general. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean. And I'm not wanting to be condescending. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Charlie Beckett

That's great. You know, somebody from the lse, I assume accusing somebody else of elitism is fantastic.

Christian Lander

I know. And I come from the colonies, you know, But. Yeah, I definitely get that accusation. But I mean, I was in, you know, I spent. I dropped out of a PhD program in English literature, so it's kind of par for the course for me. And I mean, the entire. Pretty much all of the left in the United States, one of the huge problems in terms of, you know, in Canada as well, in terms of getting an actual conversation going, is they are condescending across the board to everyone. And that's one of the things that I would hope to make fun of in the book, but I recognize that I do it. I mean, I know I'm an asshole, but like I said, I can't change it. You know what I mean? Like, I need to. I know I need to be more tolerant of the wrong kind of white people, but they're just so annoying.

Charlie Beckett

Anybody on this side? Yeah, there, halfway up, please. Anybody in the middle? Anybody at the back up There. Want to ask a question? No, I'm trying to grab somebody else Mic, go ahead, please.

Audience Member

Yeah, you make a kind of an interesting observation. I think an important observation about a middle class being overwhelmingly white, having a lot of power, but being in denial of their power and almost in denial of their whiteness made the point about wanting to appear non whites and things kind of joke away. It does appear that the one group, what you might stereotype as white liberals define themselves as opposite to is a white working class who as we know there's a lot of a Ferrari about Nick Griffin and all these people are going to vote for him, but they've got very small number of the vote. First question is have the. Do you tend to notice a great appropriation against the white working class? And B, secondly, this tend to be in the last few years a bit of an academic recognition of them in this country and very much about a way of incorporating addendum into this multicultural kind of system in a very condescending way. I think it's. But I want to know what you think about that. First of all, the denial of white middle class, white working class.

Christian Lander

Well, I mean, one of the things that the blog timed out really well was that the people, especially in the United States, is that the people that I'm writing about during the Bush presidency felt like an oppressed minority. And I sort of made the joke that one of the great things about being white is you can disown other white people, whereas if you're not white, you have to, you have to bear the brunt of the actions of your, of your race in North America. And so we were able, you know, we disowned George Bush and those people. But people felt like an oppressed minority for those years. Now that they're back, the denial of being white is definitely there. And it has led to this is where the humor comes from about having back friends, having gay friends. And white people do this thing where they're trying so hard to acquire these friends of other race as collectibles. And so I don't know if you've noticed white people when they're telling stories about having dinner with someone, they'll always say to you, well, I was having dinner with my Senegalese friend the other night and it was fantastic. And then tomorrow night I'm having dinner with my Guyanese friend and their need to sort of justify, you know what I mean, that they are supportive of this multicultural world and just to seem as progressive as possible is there need. Sorry if I missed the Rest of the question there, please.

Charlie Beckett

And could we get the microphone down to this chapter front as well? Keep your hand up.

Christian Lander

Thank you for explaining why I've received so many privileges. That's a tongue in cheek comment. But one thing that people don't talk about is President Obama's international background experience. Oh, they actually do in America. There's a number of people who called birthers. They talk about it quite a lot. Well, on a serious note, the fact that he grew up in various countries and actually went to school in Hawaii, which was quite a melting pot. And also his astuteness and being a magna cum laude from now. Do you think this is what is keeping his popularity up? By the fact that he is different and therefore by associating oneself with him, one white people feel better? Oh, yeah, absolutely. On the. Well, number one, I think his popularity is sustained because of the previous president. You know, I mean, like you have to do pretty bad to. To follow that up. But yeah, I mean, during the election it was amazing. I mean, I think so many people were more in love with the idea of a black president than Barack Obama. And that happened throughout it. And the joke in the book is that white people like Barack Obama because if they don't, people will think they're racist. But it is an interesting point about, you know, it's a hard thing to say if he gets some of the criticism is couched because people are afraid to say anything about him because they're afraid of appearing racist. I don't know how that's going to play out over the next few years, but we'll see.

Charlie Beckett

Go ahead.

Christian Lander

Hi, Christian, just wondering how your book.

Charlie Beckett

Translates into other predominantly white countries.

Audience Member

And.

Charlie Beckett

How the general white population or the people who actually attend your lectures, how do they actually receive your book and your critique? I guess. And do you think that they react in the same way as a North American white audience would? And how much does that say about the ubiquity of American culture in the world?

Christian Lander

Yeah, the book's done pretty well in Australia and Canada and it's just come out in the uk. I think the important thing about it is what it talks to is, is countries that have dealt with in the last 20 years or have experienced a large amount of immigration and sort of how that's being dealt with. You can deal with it in a number of ways. And this is sort of taking a look at the embracing side of it, you know what I mean? And some of the racism that comes with even the embracing side. So it has done well and has translated fairly well across the board. I mean, white people are literally everywhere. You know this. They're all over the place. Study a abroad, volunteer abroad opportunities, you know, they're everywhere.

Charlie Beckett

Okay, on this side, railing, who's got the mic?

Christian Lander

The comedian. The Canadian comedian Martin Short once said that he grew up watching American television, whereas American comedians just grew up watching television. And you're sort of. You're making comment not just on white people, but sort of the left in America. So I'm just wondering, you, as a Canadian, do you feel like you have a certain perspective that you wouldn't have had? No, he would. Because left wing Americans are Canadians with a different passport. Again, that's why left wing Americans sew Canadian flags on their backpack when they come to Europe. I think that should be enough for them to qualify for a passport. But that's just. I've got a short but important question.

Charlie Beckett

What's your favorite the Wire character?

Christian Lander

My favorite Wire character. The Wire. Oh, man, that's a great question. Favorite. I love Omar, man. Omar is awesome. Omar was. I think Omar was incredible. I'm gonna ruin it for everybody to tell you how he died. And they say, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just kidding. Psych. See, people are freaking out right here. That's what I talk about in the book is like, if you ruin a TV box set for a white person, it is over. Friendship is done. No, I knew, I knew. I'm not gonna do you like that. Don't worry.

Charlie Beckett

Microphone. Who's got the mic there?

Christian Lander

Could you talk a little bit about the television show? Is it gonna be a sitcom or. Yeah, it's a single cam sitcom. The concept behind it is the wrong kind of white guy learning how to be the right kind of white guy from a black guy. And it's gonna be set at a company that's sort of like the Body Shop or, you know, Tom's of Maine kind of thing like that. And we'll see what happens. I mean, my fingers are crossed, but TV development is a long, difficult process.

Charlie Beckett

Quick question. Give the mic.

Christian Lander

So just curious because you were talking.

Charlie Beckett

About the value of multiculturalism for white culture.

Christian Lander

So I was just wondering, you think any.

Charlie Beckett

There are particular countries that are more.

Christian Lander

Trendy in white culture that people get.

Charlie Beckett

More credit from being from the nationalities to the articles?

Christian Lander

Well, yeah. I mean, in North America, if you're from Europe, you win. You know what I mean? Like, Europe's got everything, everything that the North American white people want. You know, soccer, free health care, you know, all that sort of stuff. So no, Europe, Europe usually gets the trendy. The trendy rap among white people to the left. Canada for a while during this healthcare debate, we've been, we've been coming out looking pretty good. No, I don't think so. Did you guys. Security. Did you guys see that thing in the US where a politician made a claim about Stephen Hawking, saying that if he had grown up in the UK he'd be dead by now because they thought he was an American professor at Stephen Hawking, he'd be like, well, actually, the NHS saved my life.

Charlie Beckett

Okay, there's a lady at the back. So which one of these stereotypes apply to you if.

Christian Lander

Oh, none of them. Dude, look at me, man. Like, let's see, you know, red hair, beards, glasses, you know, ironic T shirts. Actually, the T shirt is a. This is officially a stuff white people like shirt that we sell. It's a street scene that has 40 things from the book incorporated into it. So there's an Asian girl drinking a coffee, there's a guy in a fixed ear, there's a black gay friend, a dog Obama sticker, a free Tibet. I love New York Canadian flag, peace sign, that equal sign thing for human rights. Apple sticker and stuff. White people like to spell it on the obey giant Whole Foods apple at Ikea. And the shirt is of course, American Apparel. And it is. We did it on the website. All. All the money from the T shirt has gone to an American charity called Children of the night, 100% of the proceeds. And on the inside of the label it lists all of the things that are in there. So yeah, a few of them apply to me. I think I ride a fixed gear bike, man. Like, pretty covered.

Charlie Beckett

Let's take one last question. Anybody right at the back up there? Yep.

Audience Member

Far away.

Christian Lander

I don't know whether this might end up being a controversial question, but have you thought of publishing the book in South Africa? I'll publish the book anywhere, if anyone. Are you a publisher? Do you want to buy the rights? We could do this deal right now. Let's hash it out. I grew up in South Africa and I recognize a lot of the stereotypes as being very common among a certain kind class of white. South African. White people are everywhere. I told you.

Charlie Beckett

Okay, listen, we're going to have to end it there. On that note, this is truly universal, obviously. Thanks to all of you for coming tonight for such great questions.

Christian Lander

Thank you so much.