Podcast Summary

Podcast: LSE: Public Lectures and Events
Episode: Sustainability, Peace and Development: In Conversation with Juan Manuel Santos
Date: October 30, 2025
Host/Panel:

• Larry Kramer (President and Vice Chancellor, LSE)
• Professor Mary Kaldor (Director, LSE Conflict Research Program)
• Professor Lord Nicholas Stern (Chair, LSE Global School of Sustainability)
• Guest: Juan Manuel Santos (Former President of Colombia, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate)

Episode Overview

This episode features a wide-ranging and deeply engaging conversation with Juan Manuel Santos, Colombia’s former president and Nobel Peace Laureate, recorded at the launch of LSE's Global School of Sustainability. Santos discusses his experiences pioneering peace in Colombia, the intersections between peace-building and environmental sustainability, his insights on leadership in turbulent times, the evolving nature of modern conflict, and the global struggle to create just, sustainable societies. The discussion, moderated by Nick Stern and contributed to by Mary Kaldor, draws on Santos’s personal experiences, actionable lessons, and global wisdom, touching on the practical and moral challenges facing leaders and citizens everywhere.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Colombia’s Peace Process: Leadership and Lessons

Time: 07:58–26:32

• Santos recounts the six-year peace negotiations with FARC, set against decades of civil war.
• He shares a formative encounter with the indigenous Kogi people, who charged him to make peace not only among Colombians but also “peace with nature,” emphasizing a spiritual dimension missing from global sustainability frameworks.
  • Quote: “They gave me a baton that says, here's a mandate. Make peace in this terrible war... but also make peace with nature, because you will not have peace among humans if you don't make peace with nature.” — Juan Manuel Santos [09:10]
• Santos describes drawing inspiration and practical strategies from Nelson Mandela and the Northern Ireland, Israel/Palestine, and El Salvador peace processes.
• Highlights the essential role of leadership: True peace is only possible if leaders of all factions genuinely desire it.
  • Quote: “If there's no will from the leadership to make peace, making peace is almost impossible, that I can assure you.” — Santos [27:22]
• Critical components for peace:
  • Achieving military and diplomatic conditions that favor negotiation.
  • Learning to treat adversaries with dignity, shifting from an “enemy” to an “adversary” mindset.
  • Putting victims’ rights (truth, reparation, justice, non-repetition) at the center of negotiations.
• Santos emphasizes perseverance, personal and political sacrifices, and the lasting, generational nature of reconciliation.
  • Quote: “Making peace needs a completely different type of leadership... Instead of giving orders, you have to persuade, educate, convince—a different attitude.” — Santos [20:20]
  • The advice from Pope Francis: reconciliation is the most challenging phase, requiring perseverance for generations [24:20].
• Lessons for global conflicts: Peace agreements require thorough, honest implementation; otherwise, progress unravels.

2. The Evolving Nature of War: “New Wars”

Time: 30:52–40:16

• Mary Kaldor introduces the concept of “new wars”—contemporary conflicts characterized by blurred lines between state and non-state actors, criminal enterprises embedded in violence, profit-driven motives, and primarily civilian targeting and displacement.
  • Example: Bosnia, where peace entrenched warlords and not genuine peace.
• Santos agrees, diagnosing Latin America’s spread of organized crime as the current “new war,” driven by money and power—not social or ideological causes. Describes the failure of militarized approaches against organized crime, both domestically and internationally.
  • Quote: “You have to fight them with the same intelligence and procedures, but different from the traditional military way of waging war.” — Santos [38:45]

3. On the War on Drugs and US Policy

Time: 40:55–43:41

• Santos shares hard-won insights from his time as Minister of Defense and president: militarized, punitive drug policies reinforce criminal mafias and only feed the cycle of violence and profit.
  • Quote: “This war on drugs from a punitive-only approach will only reinforce or strengthen the mafias that control the business. And that is what was happening.” — Santos [41:32]
• On recent US and Trump-era tactics: Interdiction raises prices and strengthens cartels; only a change to regulation and health-based approaches can break the cycle.

4. Sustainability and Leadership Dilemmas

Time: 43:50–50:25

• Nick Stern presses Santos on the challenges for nations reliant on fossil fuels, asking how to balance immediate economic interests against long-term sustainability imperatives.
• Santos reflects on lessons from indigenous Colombian communities: true development is defined by safeguarding nature and culture, not simply economic extraction.
  • Quote: “Leaders take decisions, not looking at the short term... but [at] what will preserve your country or the planet in the long run.” — Santos [47:04]
• Highlights the need for “long-term leadership,” unpopular but necessary decisions, and building public consensus for future-focused policies.

5. Audience Q&A: Local Development, Cartels, International Responsibility, and Peace Implementation

Time: 50:46–66:51

Implementing Peace Locally (PDETs)

• Community-led development plans (PDETs) in Colombia remain largely unimplemented; failure is due to lack of political will, not flawed process.
• Hope remains anchored in future governments following through.

Peace with Cartels (Mexico)

• Negotiation frameworks that work for insurgencies do not apply to profit-driven criminal cartels; they require a different strategy.

Rich Countries and the SDGs

• Rich countries have cut aid and sometimes oppose elements of the SDGs on ideological grounds, threatening the global agenda.
  • Quote: “If all of us simply say, 'Well, we won't do it if you don't do it,' then we'll all lose. We have to double down.” — Santos [56:25]
• Panel suggests moral, practical, and multilateral strategies (e.g., development banks) for leveraging progress despite backsliding powers.

The Colombian Referendum and Fake News

• Santos acknowledges underestimating the influence of disinformation, leading to the narrow referendum loss on the peace accord. An inclusive renegotiation improved both the deal and legitimacy.

Evidence and Negotiation

• Practical experience and hands-on advisors from other conflict zones were more crucial than scientific research, though some local data guided where to focus development.

6. Alternative Drug Policies and Communication

Time: 67:27–73:08

• Moving toward legalization/regulation is stymied by political fear-mongering and misinformation (“Santos wants to poison kids!”), requiring persistent community engagement and reframing the issue as a health one rather than criminal.
• Global progress is slow due to hardline opposition from various regions, often for cultural or historical reasons.

7. Truth, History, and Reconciliation

Time: 73:16–75:00

• Directly addresses a Lebanese audience member about constructing truth in divided societies.
• Stresses necessity of humility and open dialogue to foster reconciliation and “make your enemy your friend.”
  • Quote: “It’s very difficult many times to accept a truth that is not your truth, but it’s necessary... That is a way to make your enemy a friend.” — Santos [74:30]

8. Environment, Conflict, and “Gunpoint Conservation”

Time: 75:04–79:17

• The FARC’s presence in forests inadvertently protected biodiversity; after demobilization, failure to implement state conservation policies allowed criminal groups to drive deforestation.
• Urges international support for novel approaches like Brazil’s “Tropical Forest Forever” fund and emphasizes the dire warning from planetary science: humanity has crossed 7 of 9 planetary boundaries.

9. Negotiation with Dictatorships and Hope for Venezuela

Time: 79:50–82:58

• To achieve transitions from authoritarian rule, negotiation remains essential, even with brutal regimes; peace is made with adversaries, not friends.
• Prefer “a golden bridge” for regime exit over “perpetual oppression”; the cost of negotiation is outweighed by the value of liberation.

Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• “You will not have peace among humans if you don’t make peace with nature.” — Juan Manuel Santos, relaying the Kogi wisdom [09:23]
• “Making peace is much more difficult than making war… Instead of giving orders, you have to persuade, educate, convince.” — Santos [20:20]
• “Victims have the right to the truth. And it’s incredible how the process of bringing out the truth facilitates reconciliation.” — Santos [18:30]
• “If there’s no will from the leadership to make peace, making peace is almost impossible.” — Santos [27:22]
• “This war on drugs from a punitive-only approach will only reinforce or strengthen the mafias. ...That is what was happening.” — Santos [41:32]
• “Leaders take decisions, not looking at the short term... [but] for your children and your grandchildren.” — Santos [47:04]
• “Making your enemy a friend… that’s the best way to make peace.” — Santos [74:30]

Memorable Moments

• Santos’s story of returning the indigenous baton, being told “peace with nature” was still unfulfilled for lack of “the spiritual factor.” [08:40‒10:35]
• How British intelligence shifted Colombian policy, showing the need for unified, non-competing intelligence services. [28:00–29:10]
• Admissions about underestimating fake news and polarization during the peace agreement referendum — and humbly improving the agreement through inclusion. [60:23–63:40]
• Open advocacy for future leaders to make unpopular but necessary transitions away from fossil fuels, with reminder that “nature will give you time, but not all the time you want.” [47:00–47:45]
• Engagement with global planetary science, warning humanity has crossed 7 of 9 “planetary boundaries.” [77:43–78:45]
• Practical wisdom: “Perseverance and clarity of objectives is so important… I could go on forever, but I think it’s enough.” — Santos, on peacemaking [25:55]

Takeaways & Insights

• Peace-building is complex, generational, and demands courageous, empathetic leadership willing to break with political orthodoxy and treat all sides as human.
• Sustainability and peace are inseparable—protecting nature’s “spirit” is as essential as social reconciliation, a wisdom found in indigenous worldviews.
• Modern conflicts (“new wars”) defy conventional state-centric tactics and require new approaches grounded in intelligence, legitimacy, and identity-sensitive strategies.
• Militarized approaches to crime and drugs, domestically and internationally, repeatedly fail and risk undermining civil society and state capacity.
• Only persistent, inclusive dialogue—with adversaries as much as supporters—can birth lasting peace and real sustainability.
• The global failure to implement sustainability and development goals in wealthier nations endangers the whole world; individual and multilateral action must continue regardless of laggards.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 07:58 — Santos on indigenous inspiration and peace with nature
• 20:20 — The practical and moral complexities of making peace
• 27:22 — On the necessity of leadership’s real commitment to peace
• 41:32 — Reflecting on why the “war on drugs” strategy fails
• 47:04 — On leadership, unpopular decisions, and sustainability transitions
• 60:23 — Santos’s candid reflection on the referendum defeat, role of fake news
• 74:30 — Wisdom on reconciliation and making enemies into friends
• 77:43 — Planetary boundaries and the existential urgency for environmental action

This summary captures the episode’s substance and spirit, weaving together policy insight, personal narrative, and global relevance in a way that is valuable even to those who have not heard the original conversation.