Podcast Summary: LSE Public Lecture — The Future Development of International Criminal Justice: An Interdisciplinary Approach

Date: March 5, 2010
Host: LSE Film and Audio Team
Speaker: President Sang-Hyun Song, President of the International Criminal Court
Chair: Professor Christine Chinkin, LSE

Episode Overview

This episode features President Sang-Hyun Song of the International Criminal Court (ICC) delivering a comprehensive overview of the evolution, current challenges, and future directions for international criminal justice, with a particular emphasis on the necessity of interdisciplinary approaches. The lecture is followed by a dynamic Q&A session with LSE students and academics, focusing on the practicalities and politics of ICC operations, the principle of complementarity, and commonly voiced criticisms.

Key Themes and Discussion Points

1. Historical Context and Evolution of International Criminal Justice

Timestamp: [03:01]

• Traditional Focus on States: International law originally concerned itself almost exclusively with the conduct of states, as reflected in foundational documents like the UN Charter and the Statute of the International Court of Justice.

• Post-WWII Shift: The aftermath of WWII and the Nuremberg Tribunal marked a turning point, establishing individual responsibility and accountability for crimes against international law.

  "Crimes against international law are committed by men, not by abstract entities. And only by punishing individuals who commit such crimes can the provisions of international law be enforced."
  — President Song quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal [04:35]

• The Freeze of the Cold War Era: Despite the Nuremberg/Nations aspirations, the Cold War made accountability for mass atrocities politically infeasible and led to widespread impunity for grave crimes.

2. Revival of Accountability & Role of the ICC

Timestamp: [06:45]

• Post-Cold War Developments: Tribunals for Rwanda, the former Yugoslavia, and Sierra Leone, and eventually the establishment of the ICC, signaled a renewed willingness to confront atrocity crimes.

• Current ICC Operations: With multiple trials underway, the ICC plays a pivotal role in shaping both the procedures and substantive development of international criminal law.

  "Accountability for atrocity crimes has become a reality for a broader range of situations."
  — President Song [08:20]

• Deterrent Effect: Suggests, citing UN officials and observers, that the possibility of prosecution may already be deterring potential perpetrators.

3. Challenges Facing the ICC and the System of International Criminal Justice

Timestamp: [09:54]

• ICC’s Limited Mandate:

  • Does not replace national justice—acts as a court of “last resort.”
  • Jurisdiction is limited (post-2002 crimes, state party or Security Council referral).
  • Cannot enforce its own judgments; depends on state cooperation.

• Principle of Complementarity:

  • States hold the primary obligation to prosecute atrocity crimes.
  • ICC intervenes only where states are “unwilling or unable.”

• Diverse and Sometimes Conflicting Mandates: The broader system comprises a host of actors (states, NGOs, tribunals, international organizations) with varying roles, abilities, and motivations.

4. Future Development: Three Pillars for Progress

Timestamp: [13:40]

• 1. Broaden the Reach:

  • Encourage more states to join the Rome Statute, dispelling myths and misunderstandings.
  • ICC engagement with potential state parties (e.g., outreach in Southeast Asia).

  "It is important that this decision is taken not on the basis of myths and misperceptions, but of facts."
  — President Song [14:40]

• 2. Enhanced Cooperation:

  • Move toward routine, effective cooperation (including enforcement agreement, relocation of witnesses, etc.).
  • Recognize ICC's dependence on states for enforcement.

• 3. Deepen Through National Capacity Building:

  • Support and develop the ability of national courts to genuinely investigate and prosecute.
  • ICC has limited direct resources for this; calls upon states, NGOs, and international organizations.

  "Experts from fields including international affairs, political science and economics will be needed, as well as many good lawyers."
  — President Song [19:43]

• Illustrative Example:

  • Visit to Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) revealed challenges: military courts using the Rome Statute as legal basis but lacking adequate training, resources, and security.

  "This military prosecutor frankly admitted that he and his team lacked the expertise to ensure proper trials...The prison system is at shambles. There are concerns about political interference in the judiciary."
  — President Song [21:12]

5. A “Revolution” in International Law

Timestamp: [23:20]

• A gradual but momentous shift from exclusive state sovereignty to a global system of individual accountability, rooted in Nuremberg, consolidated in the 1990s, and evolving through the ICC.

  "This is a revolution with roots in Nuremberg and Tokyo... But we must continue to look forward. The ICC will always offer a last hope for justice in response to humanity's deepest depravity."
  — President Song [24:40]

Q&A Session Highlights and Memorable Exchanges

On Enforcement and Cooperation

Timestamp: [26:01], [29:13]

• Student Query: How can the ICC enforce judgments if governments change or become uncooperative?

  • ICC has no police; relies entirely on state cooperation and implementing legislation.

  "As everybody knows, the ICC has no police force of its own or army... So, as far as enforcement of the sentencing or arrest warrant or whatever, we have to rely on the states for cooperation in this respect."
  — President Song [29:20]

On Peace vs. Justice and Security Council Power

Timestamp: [27:55], [29:13]

• Student Query: Does Security Council power to defer ICC cases (Article 16) conflict with the idea that peace and justice go hand-in-hand?

  • Song: Security Council involvement is inherently political; ICC’s work remains strictly judicial.

  "We, the ICC judges, are engaged only with judicial activities... Judges are jurists."
  — President Song [30:35]

On Complementarity and Building Local Capacity

Timestamp: [28:41], [29:13]

• Student Query: How can we ensure local courts (e.g., in Congo) implement the Rome Statute effectively?
  • Emphasizes the need for coordinated, interdisciplinary support and capacity building; highlights upcoming Kampala Conference as a venue for more discussion.

Addressing Critiques of ICC’s Focus/Energy

Timestamp: [38:56], [41:08]

• Critiques: Is ICC a tool of the powerful? Why mostly African cases? Is justice selective?

  • Cases are not “chosen”: initial ICC situations in Africa were state referrals or Security Council referrals.
  • Acknowledges perception issues but stresses structural safeguards—judicial oversight of prosecutor, international scrutiny—and the evolving nature of the ICC’s reach.

  "We never selected these countries as weak countries or easy to handle or something...That's how we started all these investigations and prosecutions."
  — President Song [42:01]

  "I must emphasize that more than 50 decisions, especially rendered by my chamber... have been very well received around the world, and I'm very proud of him."
  — President Song [51:15]

On Potential for ICC Cases Beyond Africa

Timestamp: [43:50]

• ICC is conducting preliminary analyses of situations outside Africa (Afghanistan, Georgia, Colombia, Gaza).
• Legal complexity (e.g., Palestinian statehood) acknowledged; avoids expressing personal views on unresolved matters.

Notable Quotes

• On Deterrence:

  "According to some observers, including top UN officials, fear of prosecution may have led some would-be perpetrators to refrain from the commission of atrocities in the first place. If true, this already would be a great achievement."
  — President Song [08:55]

• On Building a Global System:

  "It will take all parts of the broader system, working together within their respective mandates to achieve maximum impact."
  — President Song [13:27]

• On the Role of Law:

  "Few will then doubt that justice sustains peace."
  — President Song [25:18]

Takeaways for Listeners

• The ICC’s mandate is narrow, resource-limited, and heavily dependent on global cooperation.
• Justice at the international level is inherently slow and complicated, but progress is both real and significant.
• Complementarity is not just a legal principle but a practical necessity; building local judicial capacity is essential.
• Criticisms of the ICC as selective or politicized are addressed structurally and through an evolving caseload.
• The move from state-centric to individual accountability in international law is an ongoing “revolution.”
• The future of international criminal justice will require not just lawyers, but collaboration with political scientists, economists, regional experts, and development practitioners.

Important Timestamps

• [03:01] — President Song’s opening and overview of the history of international criminal law
• [13:40] — Three main areas for common action/goals for future development
• [19:43] — Interdisciplinary needs and the Congo case example
• [23:20] — The revolutionary shift towards individual accountability
• [29:13] — Start of Q&A: Enforcement, complementarity, judicial vs. political mandates
• [41:08] — Addressing criticisms of ICC focus (Africa, powerful states)
• [51:15] — Reaffirmation of the ICC’s legitimacy and future resilience

Episode in a sentence:
President Song’s lecture underscores the complexity, limits, and revolutionary nature of international criminal justice, highlighting the ICC's achievements, ongoing challenges, and the vital need for interdisciplinary cooperation and local capacity building to fulfill the global promise of accountability and peace.