Podcast Summary: LSE: Public Lectures and Events
Episode: The Mysterious Art and Science of Doing Good
Release Date: March 18, 2025

Introduction

In the renowned public lecture series hosted by the London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE), Professor Jonathan Roberts delivers an insightful presentation titled "The Mysterious Art and Science of Doing Good." Chairing the event is Professor Julian Le Grand from the Marshall Institute, who introduces Roberts as a distinguished academic with a remarkable journey into the field of social business and entrepreneurship.

Notable Quote:
"It's a very tough time for those organizations and institutions which seek to do good outside the state and the market."
— Jonathan Roberts [03:44]

Defining "Doing Good"

Roberts begins by dissecting the concept of "doing good," emphasizing that it pertains to private action aimed at generating public benefits, distinct from state or market-driven initiatives. He critiques traditional labels like "non-profit sector" or "third sector" for their overgeneralization, advocating for a more nuanced understanding of diverse behaviors and meanings within this realm.

Key Points:

• Instrumental Rationality: Focused on the most efficient means to achieve desired social outcomes.
• Substantive Rationality: Concerned with the values and definitions of what constitutes "good."

Notable Quote:
"What does it mean to do good? Well, what I mean by it, and that's I guess the important thing for this lecture is private action."
— Jonathan Roberts [03:44]

Trends Influencing Doing Good

Roberts identifies two significant trends reshaping the landscape of doing good:

1. Emphasis on Rigor and Outcomes: Borrowing scientific methodologies to measure and evaluate the effectiveness of social interventions.
2. Incorporation of Market Practices: Introducing business mechanisms like branding, marketing, and key performance indicators into social enterprises.

Key Insights:

• Impact Investing: Investments aimed at generating positive social impact alongside financial returns.
• Transposition: Adapting business strategies to the non-profit sector, which can lead to both innovation and friction.

Notable Quote:
"There is a real motivation to do good. But sometimes the effectiveness of doing good, the impact is somewhat lacking simply because you don't have these signals in place."
— Jonathan Roberts [08:30]

Riddles and Challenges in Doing Good

Roberts delves into several "riddles" or challenges faced by organizations striving to do good:

1. The Riddle of the Market: Exploring whether market mechanisms can effectively address social needs. Using the example of M. Kopa, a social enterprise in Sub-Saharan Africa, Roberts illustrates how creating new markets for social goods can lead to scalability but also raises concerns about maintaining social missions and addressing the needs of the poorest.

   Notable Quote:
   "By creating markets, we are letting in self-interest into our social impact formula. Can we control that self-interest?"
   — Jonathan Roberts [23:15]

2. The Riddle of Knowledge: Balancing expert knowledge with community and user insights. Roberts emphasizes the importance of diverse knowledge sources to avoid biases and ensure interventions are contextually relevant.

   Notable Quote:
   "It's the idea of hearing people as an end in itself and not simply a means of getting somewhere."
   — Jonathan Roberts [35:50]

3. The Riddle of Measurement: Advocating for the importance of rigorous measurement to assess impact while cautioning against over-reliance on quantitative metrics that may oversimplify complex social issues or undermine intrinsic values.

   Notable Quote:
   "Measurement is a good thing because the ability to know whether we are having social impact with what we do is just so important."
   — Jonathan Roberts [43:25]

Case Studies and Examples

Roberts presents real-world examples to illustrate his points:

• M. Kopa: A social enterprise providing solar-powered generators and mobile phones in Sub-Saharan Africa. Initially funded by philanthropic investors, M. Kopa demonstrated the viability of market-based social interventions but faced challenges in maintaining its social mission amidst mainstream investment.

• Crisis Text Line: An organization offering mental health support via text. Its attempt to monetize data through a profit-making subsidiary led to public backlash, highlighting the potential erosion of trust when non-profits engage in profit-driven activities.

• Educate Girls: An initiative in India utilizing data analytics to target villages with high numbers of out-of-school girls. This hybrid approach combines scientific rigor with deep community engagement, resulting in substantial educational impacts.

Notable Quote:
"Trust is often the most important currency they have. As soon as you bring in a profit-making element to that, then there are questions...of trust."
— Jonathan Roberts [52:10]

Epistemic Justice and Values

Roberts underscores the necessity of "epistemic justice"—the fair recognition and incorporation of diverse knowledge systems. He warns against the dominance of scientific rationality and market forces, which can marginalize community voices and ethical considerations.

Key Points:

• User-Centric Approaches: Integrating feedback and insights from those directly affected by social interventions.
• Balancing Means and Ends: Ensuring that the methods employed to achieve social good do not inadvertently undermine the very values they aim to promote.

Notable Quote:
"How we see the means to an end...will depend on what your values are."
— Jonathan Roberts [64:40]

Q&A Highlights

Following the lecture, the session includes a robust Q&A segment where audience members engage with Roberts on various topics:

1. Impact of Market-Driven Philanthropy on Government Responsibility:
   Roberts acknowledges the tension between market-based solutions and governmental roles, advocating for a pragmatic approach where non-profits can fill gaps left by the state while continuing to advocate for governmental accountability.

   Notable Exchange:
   "Does this let governments off the hook?"
   — Audience Member [69:39]
   "I don't think we can wait for government. That would be my response."
   — Jonathan Roberts

2. State’s Collaborative Role in Promoting Social Enterprises:
   Discussing models like social impact bonds, Roberts highlights the potential for public-private partnerships to fund and evaluate social interventions without imposing undue risk on the state.

   Notable Quote:
   "Social impact bonds are clever partnerships...useful when the state is cash-constrained."
   — Jonathan Roberts [76:06]

3. Philanthropy Influenced by Religious Principles:
   Addressing questions on religious-driven philanthropy, Roberts emphasizes the importance of modernizing philanthropic approaches to maximize impact while respecting traditional values.

   Notable Quote:
   "When some of those conventions were first introduced, the instructions were written many, many centuries ago. We need a new set of instructions to explain to us how we should do that."
   — Jonathan Roberts [82:46]

4. Governance and Self-Regulation in the Non-Profit Sector:
   Roberts differentiates between ethical governance and effectiveness, noting that while organizations like the Charity Commission oversee integrity, they often lack mechanisms to assess and enhance effectiveness.

   Notable Quote:
   "The Charity Commission...governs integrity and ethics, but not effectiveness."
   — Jonathan Roberts [85:53]

Conclusion

Professor Jonathan Roberts concludes by reiterating the complexities involved in "doing good." He emphasizes the importance of understanding the specific context, balancing rigorous measurement with ethical considerations, and maintaining a continuous dialogue between practitioners and researchers to foster innovative and effective social interventions.

Final Notable Quote:
"There is real opportunity for innovation here, for bringing together things which are unlikely, like self-interest and altruism, market and purpose...It's the job of researchers, but also practitioners to explore those things."
— Jonathan Roberts [88:24]

Final Thoughts

"The Mysterious Art and Science of Doing Good" provides a comprehensive exploration of the evolving strategies and challenges within the non-profit and social entrepreneurship sectors. Roberts adeptly navigates the interplay between scientific rigor, market mechanisms, and ethical imperatives, offering valuable insights for academics, practitioners, and anyone interested in the nuanced pursuit of social impact.

Learn More:
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