The politics of Pakistan

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The politics of Pakistan

Podcast: LSE: Public lectures and events
Date: January 13, 2011
Host: Ariane Sparks (LSE Film and Audio Team)
Guest: Dr. Adnan Mazimullah

---

Overview

This episode centers on the assassination of Pakistani politician Salman Taseer and its implications for the country's ongoing struggle between secular and religious forces. Dr. Adnan Mazimullah provides historical context, discusses the dynamics of religious and political identity in Pakistan, and analyzes the impact of Taseer's death on polarization and the future of Pakistani politics.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background on Salman Taseer (00:13 – 03:43)

• Elite Liberal Roots:

  • Taseer came from a prominent liberal family and was the nephew of renowned poet Faiz Ahmed Faiz, a noted communist.
  • Educated at Government College Lahore and later in London as a chartered accountant.

• Political & Business Career:

  • Early involvement with the populist Pakistan People's Party (PPP), maintaining close ties with leaders like Benazir Bhutto and President Asif Ali Zardari.
  • Successful businessman—founded a business consulting group, launched a major cell phone network, and published a newspaper.
  • Although not a career politician, he was appointed Minister of Industries under Musharraf and then Governor of Punjab until his assassination.

• Advocacy & Conflict:

  • Vocal supporter of liberal causes and minority rights, defending groups like the Ahmadis and Christians in Pakistan.
  • Became a target after advocating for clemency for Asia Bibi (Asiya Narin), a Christian woman sentenced to death under Pakistan’s blasphemy law. Publicly referred to the blasphemy law as a "black law" and called for its repeal.

• The Assassination Incident:

  • On a visit to a café in Islamabad, Taseer was shot by his own bodyguard Malik Mumtaz Khadri (who came from a conservative yet relatively liberal Islamic sect, the Barelvis) and died en route to the hospital.

Notable Quote:
“When Taseer... said that he would take up the case and actually ask the President to provide clemency... he also made a statement that the blasphemy law was so-called black law and should be repealed. And so when Taseer was just visiting a cafe... one of his bodyguards... shot him, I think seven times.”
—Dr. Adnan Mazimullah [02:52]

---

2. Religious vs. Secular Dynamics in Pakistan (03:43 – 06:16)

• Societal Polarization:

  • The assassination revealed widespread support for Khadri among sectors of the public and on social media, which alarmed observers. Uncertainty remains about how representative this support is.

• Founding Ideals and Evolution:

  • Pakistan’s founders envisioned a liberal constitutional state with religious coexistence (as symbolized by the flag: white representing minorities).
  • Successive undemocratic (mainly military) governments sought legitimacy by empowering orthodox Islamic leaders, especially under General Zia al-Haq (1979-1988), who institutionalized conservatism through measures like the Federal Sharia Court and draconian laws such as the blasphemy ordinance.

Notable Quote:
“The sort of clash between the secular and the religious is really just part of the identity of Pakistan.”
—Dr. Adnan Mazimullah [04:23]

---

3. Aftermath and Outlook for Pakistan (06:16 – 08:34)

• Prospects for Increased Polarization:

  • Taseer’s murder is part of a broader pattern of sectarian violence and unrest (e.g., clashes between Sunni and Shia, the 2007 Islamabad library standoff).

• Islamist Parties’ Limited Political Power vs. Social Influence:

  • Islamist parties are not widely popular in terms of representation in the National Assembly:
    • Only 7 out of 340 seats held vs. PPP’s 124.
    • However, they dominate the rhetoric around Pakistani identity and religion, outstripping their actual electoral support.

Notable Quote:
“It's a case in which orthodox Islamist parties have been able to take control of the rhetoric around what Pakistan's about... without necessarily popular support.”
—Dr. Adnan Mazimullah [07:14]

• Judiciary’s Shortcomings:
  • Pakistani courts have failed to safeguard minority rights or ensure fair legal processes, especially concerning the blasphemy law:
    • The law is highly problematic as it's often based on hearsay, leading to persecution of minorities without robust judicial oversight.
    • High courts have not intervened adequately to promote fairness.

Notable Quote:
“The incapacity of the state and especially the judiciary to interpret and implement law in accordance with equality and fairness is a real problem.”
—Dr. Adnan Mazimullah [07:37]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:13] – Introduction to Salman Taseer and his background.
• [01:30] – Taseer's business, political engagement, and advocacy.
• [02:35] – Asia Bibi case and events leading to the assassination.
• [03:51] – Religious vs. secular conflict and public response.
• [04:40] – Historical evolution of religion and state in Pakistan.
• [06:23] – Growing polarization and Islamist parties' political influence.
• [07:30] – Judicial inadequacy and challenges of the blasphemy law.

---

Tone & Memorable Moments

The discussion maintains an analytical yet concerned tone, with Dr. Mazimullah providing context and cautioning against simplistic narratives. The episode’s emotional core lies in its candid reflection on the dangers facing advocates of pluralism in Pakistan and the uneasy entanglement of religion with politics.

---

This summary captures the critical themes and insights from the episode, providing a structured understanding for those who have not listened to the full programme.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Ariane Sparks. Welcome to the hot seat. With us today to discuss the recent assassination of Pakistani political leader Salman Taseer is Dr. Adnan Mazimullah. Thanks for being with us.

[B]

Thank you very much for having me.

[A]

Would you tell us a little bit about Salman Taseer and the motivation behind his assassination?

[B]

Sure, I'd be happy to. Salman Taseer comes from one of the big elite liberal families in Pakistan. He was actually the nephew of one one of Pakistan's most celebrated poets, Faiz Ahmed Faiz, who was a communist. Taseer went to Government College Lahore, which is sort of an elite institution in Lahore that was set up by the British and came to London to study chartered accountancy in the 1960s. He got very involved with the kind of populist movement behind Silver, Karli Bhutto and the Pakistan People's Party and has remained a sort of a close associate of the leaders of the ppp, including the late Benazir Bhutto and the current president, Asif Ali Zardari. He's also very, veryhe was a very, very rich man. He started a group who did business consulting and accountancy. He established a cell phone network that is very popular in the country and also published a newspaper. It's interesting because he is a political leader, but he's not been very electoral politics. But in 2007, he was appointed in one of the last Musharraf cabinets as the Minister of Industries and after that was appointed Governor of Punjab, which was the position he held until he died. And he's been a pretty outspoken advocate on liberal causes and especially in terms of religious minorities, he defended the Ahmadis, who are a sect that have been persecuted in Pakistan and also religious minorities like Christians. The background for the actual assassination came when Salman Taseer personally intervened and investigated the case of Asia Bibi, or Asiya Narin is her proper name, who the Christian lower caste woman who was or lower community woman who was prosecuted under the blasphemy law and was sentenced to death. And he had said that he would take up the case and actually ask the President, the President to provide clemency. In so doing, he also made a statement that the blasphemy law was so called black law and should be repealed. And so when Taseer was just visiting a cafe in Islamabad, one that I know actually quite well, he, as he was leaving and entering the car, one of his bodyguards, a man by the name of Malik Mumtaz Khadri, shot him, I think seven times. And he Died on the way to the hospital. Kadri's interesting because he, before joining this Punjab elite force that was supposed to take care of VIPs, he was. Well, he comes from a pretty conservative family, but within a fairly liberal sect of Islam called the Bereldis. So that's a little bit of background.

[A]

Thank you. Do you think his assassination highlights the ongoing battle between religious and secular forces in Pakistan?

[B]

I think it does. One of the saddest things to see, and a number of commentators have mentioned it, is the amount of. The amount of sort of rhetoric in support of Kadri and his actions in the popular press, the vernacular press in Urdu and in social networking sites like Facebook. Now, we have no idea how representative that is, but that has really worried people. But I think it's important to remember that the sort of clash between the secular and the religious is really just part of the identity of Pakistan. Pakistan was formed in 1947 and partitioned from India because a number of political leaders felt like a nation for Muslims will allow for Muslims to be. To reach their full potential in terms of economic development and not be discriminated against in a Hindu majority country. Now, those leaders mostly envisioned a Pakistan with kind of liberal constitutionalist values and no discrimination against religion. The Pakistani flag has a quarter of, is a quarter white, three quarters green to represent at that point the 25% minority communities in Pakistan. Now that figure is 4%. But what has happened since then is that successive non democratic, especially military, governments have used the orthodox Islamic leadership as a source of legitimacy. And that has especially peaked in the military regime of Zia al Haq from 1979 until 1988, in which he established a number of institutions to intervene in social life and to put the Pakistani constitution and Pakistani laws in conformity with a very conservative interpretation of Islam. That included establishing the federal Sharia Court as well as a number of these laws passed by ordinance, not by Parliament, including the blasphemy law.

[A]

Where do you see the country moving from here? Do you think this will lead to more polarization?

[B]

Unfortunately, I think it is. I mean, it's one event in a long chain of events, including sectarian violence between Sunni and Shia communities in the country and the occupation of a library in 2007 by women seminarians, which led to a shootout in Islamabad in 2007. I think the two things that are worth paying attention to is firstly that the Islamic parties, the Islamist parties, are not particularly popular. In the national assembly, there are the national assembly of Pakistan. There are 340 seats. Islamist parties hold only seven of them, as opposed to the PPP's 124. So it's a case in which Islamist, orthodox Islamist parties have been able to take control of the rhetoric around what Pakistan's about, and especially to do with the religion, without necessarily popular support. And the second thing is the incapacity of the state and especially the judiciary to interpret and implement law in accordance with equality and fairness is a real problem. The blasphemy law is a very difficult law because it is based on hearsay. He said, she said, that someone said something bad about the Prophet and then that leads to the persecution of particularly religious minorities in the country. And yet we don't see the Supreme Court and the high courts intervening to clean up the prosecutions and interpret the laws in a way that might actually lead to some more kind of fairness and equity.

[A]

All right, we'll leave it there. Dr. Nazimulla, you are off the hot seat. Thank you for being with us.

[B]

Thank you very much for having me.

[A]

And thank you for being with us. Please tune in next month for our next edition of the Hot Seat.