LSE: Public Lectures and Events — "Think Big" with Grace Lorden
Date: March 25, 2021
Host: Paul Dolan (A), Guest: Grace Lorden (B), with audience questions

Episode Overview

This episode centers on a discussion between Professor Paul Dolan and Dr. Grace Lorden about her new book, Think Big: Take Small Steps and Build the Future You Want. The theme explores how principles from behavioral science can be actively used by individuals to design happier, more fulfilling careers and personal lives—regardless of starting point or background. Key areas include decision-making, overcoming biases, resilience, social context, and redefining success.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Why the Book? The Origins and Purpose

• [01:48] Grace Lorden describes her motivation for writing Think Big. The book was born from talks at corporate companies, where participants wanted actionable advice for their own lives, not just firm policy.
  • "People kept saying, your research is really interesting, but it doesn’t help me in my life." — Grace Lorden [02:47]
  • Book expands on choosing jobs based on activities, managing time, understanding biases (both one's own and others’), environment/context, and resilience.

The Meaning Behind the Title

• [03:04] Lorden proposed “Leveling Up” (inspired by video games), but after discussions with Penguin, landed on Think Big — reflecting the idea of setting ambitious goals while focusing on incremental action.

  • "The whole idea... is that you should think about something that’s relatively far-off in the future... and set small things in place that get you there." — Grace Lorden [03:34]

Choosing Your Job: Focus on Activities, Not Titles

• [04:37] Lorden emphasizes the importance of understanding day-to-day tasks of a job, rather than status or salary. She encourages people to identify enjoyable activities first, then seek roles where those activities are core.

  • Mention of “activity lists” in the book as practical exercises.

  • Greater familiarity with activities increases resilience and adaptability in a shifting job market.

  • "Throw away occupation titles and ideas of lifestyle; identify tasks that you like doing and back out the types of jobs from there." — Grace Lorden [05:02]

Social Class and Imagination of Opportunity

• [06:24] Dolan and Lorden discuss how working-class individuals have more restricted views of possible careers and desired activities compared to middle-class people—but middle-class individuals often fall into the same title-trap.

  • Lorden provides “life hacks” for gaining experience and understanding what tasks suit, even when access is limited.

  • "My idea of what I’ll enjoy is very disconnected from the actual reality… Actually trying the activities is key." — Grace Lorden [07:53]

Time as Our Scarcest Resource

• [09:19] Lorden introduces “time audits” — distinguishing among productive investment, instant gratification, and pointless “busy work.”

  • Advocates finding just 90 minutes per week to take small, intentional steps towards bigger goals.

  • "All of us can find 90 minutes, to be honest, Paul." — Grace Lorden [10:58]

Balancing Pleasure and Purpose

• [12:14] Discussion on finding the right personal balance between activities that bring immediate pleasure and those that build longer-term purpose.

  • "People who end up loving their jobs are much more likely to burn out... It’s really about keeping an eye on your other life domains." — Grace Lorden [12:42]

Who Is The Book For?

• [15:19] The approach is not just for “9 to 5” careers:

  • Includes advice for entrepreneurs, side hustles, gig economy, or anyone seeking small or large professional changes.

  • "It is actually about building futures... Not just traditional careers, but for people in gig economy or startups." — Grace Lorden [15:35]

The Role of Belonging and Narrative in Career Choice

• [17:12] Explores how internal narratives (“I don’t belong here”) hold individuals back and how to challenge those beliefs.

  • Suggests more focus from employers on medium- and long-term aspirations, not just annual reviews.

  • "Some people will say they’re not good enough—these narratives can really hold you back." — Grace Lorden [17:39]

Understanding and Overcoming Biases

• [19:13] Comprehensive explanation of how personal biases (anticipated loss aversion, confirmation bias, time-inconsistent preferences) affect choices.

  • Importance of recognizing how much self-sabotage we do versus what others do to us.

  • "We’re masters of sabotage... We harm ourselves every bit as much as other people." — Paul Dolan [21:28]

Navigating the Biases of Others

• [21:54] Addresses obstacles like similarity bias, discrimination, and hiring practices.

  • Practical tips for countering bias at work and advice for situations such as pitching for funding (e.g., whether to present first, middle, or last).

  • "Try to reflect on daily interactions and use tools to tip the odds in your favor." — Grace Lorden [22:20]

Addressing Systemic Barriers

• [24:24] Honest discussion about ingrained cultures in professions (e.g., working-class people in middle-class jobs, women in male-dominated fields).

  • Lorden stresses the need for systemic change and advises individuals on resilience and advocacy for themselves and others.

  • "If you don’t fit in... we rely on people who choose to rock the boat and make arguments about culture to change the status quo." — Grace Lorden [25:08]

Avoiding the "Arrival Fallacy"

• [27:55] Dolan asks about the disappointment that can come from achieving a long-sought goal only to find it’s unfulfilling.

  • Lorden attributes this to ignoring activities and focusing only on titles, suggesting regular reflection and reinvention as a remedy.

  • "If you’re conscious about the activities you enjoy, you’re much less likely to arrive at a destination that you don’t like." — Grace Lorden [28:31]

The Value of Humor and Psychological Safety

• [30:01] Lorden shares personal experiences about being light-hearted at work. Research shows humor and psychological safety in teams foster innovation and better risk assessment.

  • "Having a team that enjoys humour and is relaxed are much more likely to be creative and assess risk better." — Grace Lorden [30:43]

Combating Groupthink and Fostering Creativity

• [32:10] Strategies for avoiding groupthink in organizations:

  • Team building, curbing dominance by a few voices, actively soliciting hidden/dissenting viewpoints.

  • "How can we get to a place where people are revealing hidden information and different ideas, not just being shouted down?" — Grace Lorden [32:20]

Preventing Career Stagnation and The Value of Ongoing Self-Reflection

• [34:24] Advice on avoiding “getting stuck in a rut” after years in a job, stressing the same self-assessment process is relevant at any age.

  • "If it happens to be you, Paul, I’m going to coach you for free." — Grace Lorden [35:56] (lighthearted)

Dealing with Bad Bosses

• [36:46] Two strategies: prepare to leave by building new skills, or build supportive relationships elsewhere in the organization as alternate champions.

  • "If you let one person determine your future, you’re going to be disappointed if you bump up against the wrong boss." — Grace Lorden [37:23]

Making Hard Career Choices

• [39:07] On analyzing decisions:

  • Recognize when decisions are reversible ("two-door"); don’t agonize needlessly.

  • Cognitive dissonance theory: once a decision is made, people typically justify it.

  • "Once choices are made... cognitive dissonance sets in and tells us we made the right decision anyway." — Grace Lorden [39:39]

Is Taking Big Risks Necessary?

• [41:47] Progress isn’t all about big leaps — small steps matter most, but some high-stakes decisions are inevitable.

  • "A lot of progress actually happens from the small grind... working on something, moving towards small intervals and committing to them regularly." — Grace Lorden [42:06]

Paradox of Choice

• [43:08] Do too many choices make it harder to decide? Lorden agrees, but believes activity-focused self-reflection simplifies overwhelming options.

  • "Choice is overwhelming. But day-to-day grind comes down to: what do you want to spend your time doing?" — Grace Lorden [44:48]

Networks, Social Capital, and Weak Ties

• [46:40] Recognizes that networks are a privilege — but “weak ties” can be as valuable as strong ones, and moving forward attracts new networks.

  • "Weak ties can be just as useful for our careers as ones that are really strong." — Grace Lorden [47:28]

Personal Impact of Writing the Book

• [48:29] Lorden shares how writing the book changed her:

  • Greater appreciation for the revolving-door of opportunity.

  • More focus on supporting others, especially those less heard.

  • "I've learned to really think about this idea of a revolving door... if I put myself out there, there’ll be another opportunity." — Grace Lorden [49:05]

The Power of Narratives

• [51:46] Surprised by how much personal stories/narratives hold people back—emphasizes the need for firms to facilitate the inclusion of diverse voices and stories.

The Importance of Inclusion (and Economic Incentives)

• [53:47] Lorden notes the persistent gap between best practices on inclusion and actual behavior in organizations.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If you are looking to buy it, do go for the one with the colorful cover because I don’t think [Donald Trump] needs any more people to buy his books." — Grace Lorden [03:54]
• "We're the best masters of sabotage that there is... we've harmed ourselves every bit as much as other people have." — Paul Dolan [21:28]
• "If you’re going to bet on somebody, it might as well be yourself and just go for it." — Grace Lorden [41:18]
• "Inclusion really, really is good for business... It's really weird that we still embrace people who are just like us all the time." — Grace Lorden [53:53]
• "Once we start going down a new road, lots of other opportunities arise, which we don’t factor in when weighing up those decisions." — Grace Lorden [40:07]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:48] — Why write Think Big? / Chapters Structure
• [03:04] — Book Title: From "Leveling Up" to "Think Big"
• [04:37] — Choose Jobs by Activities, Not Titles
• [09:19] — Doing a Time Audit: The 90-Minute Rule
• [12:42] — Balancing Pleasure and Purpose
• [15:19] — Applicability Beyond Traditional Careers
• [17:12] — Belonging & Internal Narrative
• [19:13] — Biases: Anticipated Loss Aversion, Confirmation Bias, Present Bias
• [21:54] — Navigating Other People’s Biases
• [24:24] — Overcoming Systemic Exclusion / Inclusion Initiatives
• [27:55] — "Arrival Fallacy" and Ongoing Reinvention
• [30:01] — The Role of Humor and Psychological Safety
• [32:10] — Avoiding Groupthink and Fostering Creativity
• [34:24] — Avoiding Career Rut/Reflection at Any Career Stage
• [36:46] — Coping with Bad Bosses or Negative Workplaces
• [39:07] — Decision-Making: When In Doubt, Get Out?
• [41:47] — The Role of Risk (Small Steps vs. Big Leaps)
• [43:08] — Paradox of Choice: Overwhelm in Modern Careers
• [46:40] — Networks, Weak Ties, and Social Capital
• [48:29] — Personal Takeaways from Writing the Book
• [51:46] — Insights That Surprised Lorden: Role of Narratives

Conclusion

Grace Lorden’s Think Big is a pragmatic, science-backed guide to unlocking career fulfillment through self-awareness, incremental progress, and overcoming both personal and structural barriers. The conversation, peppered with humor and rich anecdotes, highlights the importance of focusing on enjoyable activities, regularly auditing progress and narratives, and fostering supportive, inclusive environments both for oneself and others. The approach is relevant to all career stages and walks of life—a genuinely broad roadmap for anyone aiming to thrive.

Final request:

• "If you’re willing to post a picture with the book, tag me on Twitter @GraceLorden_ — it makes me feel my book is launched!" — Grace Lorden [57:31]