← We call her Emma | Tortoise Investigates
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- [00:00]
Chloe Hegemotheo
Hello, I'm Chloe Hegemotheo. I'm a narrative editor at the observer and the host of the Tortoise Investigates podcast. Lucky boy. I'm popping up here to say thank you all for continuing to listen and to support Tortoise Investigates from the observer. If you like what you've heard already. The good news is there are more observer podcasts that you may not know about yet. There's the news meeting, where Tortoise journalists and special guests battle it out to see whose story will lead the news the Sense Maker, one story every weekday to make sense of the world and the Sloan Newscast, a weekly investigation into a story we think you should know about. We're proud to bring you our journalism in audio, so make sure you follow all our shows so you don't miss a single Observer Podcast episode.
- [00:53]
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- [01:23]
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- [02:05]
Paige
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- [03:14]
Unknown Advertiser
Tortoise.
- [03:20]
Unknown
And so that became kind of a game of like trying to figure out where he was.
- [03:26]
Alexi Mostrous
It's the evening of Tuesday, the 5th of November. Millions of Americans have voted in the US presidential election, and Donald Trump is awaiting the result. He's assembled a select group of supporters at his Mar a Lago resort in Florida. It's the inner circle. Family members, senior campaign staff, a handful of donors. Vice presidential candidate J.D. vance is there, along with his wife, Usher. It's the cast list of people likely to dominate the next four years of American government. But one very influential person is missing.
- [04:03]
Elon Musk
Everyone hear me. Is my voice coming through?
- [04:08]
Alexi Mostrous
Elon Musk, just like.
- [04:10]
Elon Musk
I'm sorry.
- [04:15]
Alexi Mostrous
Like me. Ryan Mack, a tech reporter of the New York Times, is wondering what he's up to. Musk is a central figure in Trump's Maga movement, but for the moment, he's nowhere to be seen.
- [04:28]
Unknown
But then we also got a tip that he would be going to Mar a Lago for the election night party and, you know, we're still watching his plane and eventually we realize it's taken off from Texas.
- [04:38]
Alexi Mostrous
Musk's Gulfstream jet is on the way to West Palm Beach.
- [04:42]
Elon Musk
There's only a few hours left vote.
- [04:45]
Alexi Mostrous
I think earlier in the day, the billionaire cast his vote in Texas and now he has some time to kill. So he settles back into the cream leather chairs of his $78 million jet and starts a live stream on X.
- [05:01]
Unknown
Elon, by the way, are you gaming it up?
- [05:05]
Elon Musk
Yeah, you know, swap background activity.
- [05:07]
Unknown
Yeah, of course.
- [05:09]
Alexi Mostrous
Got his.
- [05:10]
Unknown
And he does that while, oddly, playing a video game and answering questions from essentially very close fans and friends of Donald Trump on why he viewed this election to be so important.
- [05:25]
Alexi Mostrous
In this moment, it feels like momentum is building. A jet hurtling towards its destination, the finish line of the election in sight. Much of the livestream is rambling, but there are parts which stand out.
- [05:40]
Elon Musk
So America PAC is going to keep going after the selection and preparing for the midterms and any intermediate elections, as well as looking at elections at the.
- [05:54]
Alexi Mostrous
District attorney level 40,000ft up in the air. This is a glimpse into Musk's thinking that he's not just another wealthy donor, that his involvement in politics isn't concluding with the election. It's just beginning. This is his manifesto for the future.
- [06:14]
Elon Musk
We'Ll make government way more efficient. People's tax money will be spent far more sensibly and you know, not saying they won't be, they will. There might be a few bumps in the road, but the grand scheme of things I think will be added for a golden age of prosperity.
- [06:36]
Alexi Mostrous
At 6:11pm on Tuesday evening, Musk touches down in West Florida. After all the talk of a knife edge election, it's not even close.
- [06:49]
Donald Trump
Elected your 47th president and your the.
- [06:53]
Alexi Mostrous
Next time I hear Musk's name, it's 2:30am in America.
- [06:58]
Donald Trump
But the Trump who did you say?
- [07:04]
Alexi Mostrous
Trump is on stage giving his victory speech. He's jubilant. Enough votes have come in now that he knows he will be the next President of the United States. Trump name checks his campaign manager, his family, his vice president, his. They get a few seconds of praise each. But Elon Musk, he gets a whole four minutes.
- [07:27]
Donald Trump
Let me tell you, we have a new star. A star is born, Elon.
- [07:34]
Alexi Mostrous
For much of the speech, Trump is reading from a teleprompter. But this, it's off the cuff.
- [07:39]
Donald Trump
That's why I love you, Elon. That's great. And you know, when we had the tragic hurricane.
- [07:54]
Alexi Mostrous
Looked at one way, this is simply inaccurate. Musk is the world's richest man, a tech billionaire, a builder of rockets and robots and electric cars, and famed for his takeover of Twitter. He's already a star. But in this particular moment, I think Trump is onto something. Musk was impressive before the election, but we've seen billionaires before. What's unprecedented is this new combination of political power and immense wealth. Like disparate forces of energy colliding to form a new star. Musk has combined control of a major social media platform, a 300 billion billion dollar net worth and insider access to the next President of the United States. The election has transformed this mere business mogul into a political giant. Elon 2.0 over the last few months, I've been looking at how Elon Musk has exercised his power before the election, how he operates, how he thinks, what drives him every day. And now I'm wondering, will that change? Now he's got the ear of the next president. What form will this new supercharged Musk take? What does he really want to happen in the next four years? And what does it mean for all of us? That's what people just voted for. They want unconventional.
- [09:29]
Chloe Hegemotheo
We have to be very careful.
- [09:30]
Unknown Advertiser
Extraordinarily alarming.
- [09:32]
Alexi Mostrous
Powerful.
- [09:32]
Unknown
He's megalomaniacal.
- [09:34]
Marc Maron
Now he's gonna be something approaching a kind of co. Co president.
- [09:38]
Alexi Mostrous
I'm Alexi Mostrous and from Tortoise. This is Elon Spies Episode 4 A Star is Born it's the morning after the night before Trump's granddaughter Kai posts a family photo on X. There's Trump and next to him, Don Jr, Eric Barron. The whole squad, all of them beaming in triumph. The Vice President elect, J.D. vance and his wife Usher aren't there, but Musk and his 4 year old son are the only non family members in attendance. His transition to Trump insider complete. But it hasn't always been that way. Musk was raised in South Africa, but He's been a US citizen since 2002. For the first two decades after that, he voted Democrat. Musk has described himself as pro environment and pro climate. He said that humanitarian causes are super important to him. He once queued in line for six hours to shake the hand of President Obama. Even after he switched support to the Republican Party two years ago, Musk had little good to say about Trump himself. In July 2022, he urged the former president to retire, tweeting that it was time for him to hang up his hat and sail into the sunset. And if Musk wasn't sold on Donald Trump, well, the feeling was mutual.
- [11:16]
Donald Trump
Elon? Nah, he's got himself a mess. You know, he said the other day, oh, I've never voted for a Republican. I said, I didn't know that. He told me he voted for me. So he's another bullshit artist, but he's not going to be buying it.
- [11:30]
Alexi Mostrous
Eighteen months later, everything's changed. These two stars are no longer at loggerheads, but working together, feeding off each other's energy.
- [11:43]
Elon Musk
This is the last chance, man.
- [11:46]
Alexi Mostrous
The day before the election, Musk appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast. As I listened to this two hour, 38 minute show, I thought, can this really be the same guy that donated thousands of dollars to fund Hillary Clinton's campaign for president? And who told CNBC in 2016 that Donald Trump didn't have the sort of character that reflects well on the United States?
- [12:13]
Elon Musk
If the big Covenant Kamala puppet machine wins, they will legalize the illegals in the swing states. There will be no swing states. Every election going forward will be a guaranteed Democrat win. This is the final. This is it. This is the last chance.
- [12:31]
Alexi Mostrous
The language feels radicalized. Puppets, illegals, last chances. Musk isn't speaking like a traditional business leader or a politician. He sounds like someone ranting on his own social media platform.
- [12:48]
Elon Musk
This is no ordinary election. The other side wants to take away your freedom of speech. They want to take away your right to bear arms.
- [12:57]
Alexi Mostrous
Never.
- [12:58]
Elon Musk
They want to. They want to take away your right to vote.
- [13:03]
Unknown
Effectively.
- [13:04]
Alexi Mostrous
The billionaire also gave almost $120 million to the Trump campaign in the days leading up to the election. That included giving away $1 million a day to a registered voter in a key swing state. Of course, other billionaires have spent big on Trump, including some of Musk's fellow tech heads in Silicon Valley. But none have got as down and dirty as Musk. At some points, he was even on zoom calls with Trump's organisers to help get out the vote. Just like the periods where he slept under his desk at Tesla or at Twitter when he worked hundred hour weeks to keep his factories running. Musk was in the trenches of the Trump campaign. He was running the campaign like he'd run a business. Except this time the mission wasn't to put rockets in space or to make electric cars. It was to elect a president who could dismantle the very institutions that Musk had railed against for years. And his contribution, it was critical.
- [14:14]
Elon Musk
By the way, I don't think this.
- [14:14]
Alexi Mostrous
Race would even be close if it wasn't for what Elon's doing with X and just showing people what's going on. To thousands of male millennials and gen zers, Musk is a hero, an entrepreneur, not afraid to make a risky joke. For Trump, this connection to the manosphere was invaluable. According to the Wall Street Journal, Trump won men aged 18 to 25 by 56 points to 40. In 2020. Biden won the same demographic by 56 points to 41. Musk and X was the cannula through which Trump's message flowed into the political veins of this critical demographic, not just through his own posts, but through connections to influential podcasters like Joe Rogan, who endorsed Trump only after interviewing Musk himself. This is the fourth episode of Elon Spies. In the first three, my producer Gary and I looked at how Musk used surveillance and private investigators to control the world around him. It's pretty obvious that we're not talking about private investigators here, but I'd argue that it does touch on some of the same themes. One of the things that shocked me about reporting on Musk was just how vindictive he seemed to be, how much he was affected by personal slights. Like when he hired a private investigator to dig up dirt on Vernon Unsworthy, the British cave expert. Just because Vernon had told Musk to stick his submarine where it hurts. And that aspect of Musk's character, his thin skin carries a cross because it might at least partly explain why he's shifted so violently towards the Republican Party.
- [16:18]
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- [16:51]
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- [17:29]
Marc Maron
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- [17:54]
Alexi Mostrous
If we try to sort of trace back Musk's kind of transformation into this Trumpian cheerleader, when do you think the first time was that Musk started to fall out with the Biden administration when.
- [18:07]
Lynette Lopez
Biden didn't invite him to the White House to talk about electric vehicles, there.
- [18:13]
Alexi Mostrous
Are moments in history which don't seem very important at the time. But looking back, they're turning points. Lynette Lopez is a columnist at Business Insider. She's covered Musk and Tesla for years. In her view, one such turning point took place on a hot Thursday in August 2021. It's about a year and a half into Biden's presidency, and the president has summoned executives from global carmakers to talk about electric cars. Except one person isn't invited.
- [18:50]
Unknown
Tesla CEO Elon Musk accused President Biden of ignoring his electric vehicle company and.
- [18:56]
Alexi Mostrous
Paying more attention to legacy automakers. Biden's decision was all to do with Tesla's anti union stance. But given that Tesla was the world's leading electric car manufacturer, and given that Musk has done more than anyone to promote the idea of electrification it feels like a very personal snub.
- [19:18]
Unknown
He is, yes, very upset about it. He doesn't understand why Biden is talking about gm, which produces far fewer cars than Tesla. And it hurts him to his very core. And that's why he reacts in the way he does. And after that, you start to see his messaging around Joe Biden. He starts to call him sleepy, he starts to call him incompetent. And you get this kind of increasing of rhetoric that you see on Twitter and you're like, whoa, that's gotta be coming from somewhere.
- [19:48]
Alexi Mostrous
That's Ryan Mack again.
- [19:50]
Unknown
But I view it as one incident in a few that kind of angered him about the direction of the Democratic Party.
- [20:00]
Alexi Mostrous
The EV summit is important, but it's not the only factor. By 2021, Musk was already angry about COVID and the pandemic restrictions on workers. And he felt like Tesla and SpaceX were being signaled out unfairly by regulators.
- [20:18]
Unknown
Bear in mind he had already had a lot of problems at Tesla with Democratic administrations, I think of something like what was happening in California with investigations into racism and treatment of workers at his factories. He also viewed the kind of COVID lockdowns in California and the shutting down of his factories in 2020 as a direct result of government overreach. So, you know, this 2021 EV summit is kind of the culmination of all that.
- [20:49]
Alexi Mostrous
Around the same time, Musk's transgender daughter Vivian applied to legally change her name and her gender, saying that she no longer wanted to be related to my biological father in any way, shape or form. Musk later said that he was tricked into approving gender affirming care for Vivian and told the controversial philosopher Jordan Peterson that that she is dead, killed by.
- [21:18]
Elon Musk
The world wine virus.
- [21:22]
Alexi Mostrous
By the end of 2021, all the billionaire could see in front of him was an overly progressive Democratic Party led by a president who seemed to disrespect him. A wave of political correctness which had, according to him, helped him lose his own child and a series of computer says no. Regulators determined in his view to shackle innovations at Tesla and SpaceX. To Musk, America was going in the wrong direction.
- [21:55]
Unknown
So earlier this year he was already talking to other Republican donors about how not to elect Biden and he was warming to the idea of Trump.
- [22:05]
Alexi Mostrous
So perhaps then it's not a surprise that Musk and Trump have have found a kinship. Donald Trump has also been described as a thin skinned man, one motivated by vengeance. But it's not fair to say that both men are simply driven by grievance, it's clear that Trump has successfully remade the Republican Party in his own image. Like Musk, he creates his own reality simply through the force of, of his own will. I think when it comes to his own political experiment, Musk sees things in a similar way. Both Trump and Musk see themselves as builders, as businessmen bringing efficiency to America.
- [22:58]
Lynette Lopez
I think he's finding the returns are good and he didn't realize how easy it was.
- [23:05]
Alexi Mostrous
Go on, explain.
- [23:07]
Lynette Lopez
He's made an investment. To him, that probably doesn't seem like that much of his wealth. And the return is the White House. American politics are cheap for billionaires.
- [23:21]
Alexi Mostrous
Within hours of Trump declaring victory, Tesla's share price rocketed. By the end of the day, the shares were up nearly 15%, adding about 21 billion billion to Musk's wealth. On paper at least. The scary thing is though, that might just be the start. And when you say the return of the White House, what, what do you mean?
- [23:45]
Lynette Lopez
There's a lot of power in the executive branch in the United States. As you mentioned, there are federal level investigations into Musk's companies. There are certainly government contracts on the federal level for SpaceX. Having a friend in the White House could make things appear and disappear.
- [24:06]
Alexi Mostrous
This is what Lynette is talking about, unchecked power. Musk's companies, which include Tesla, SpaceX and Neuralink, are intertwined with the federal government. Last year they benefited from $3 billion worth of contracts. According to analysis by the New York Times, US Taxpayers pay Musk to launch rockets, to build satellites, and to provide space based Internet services. In total, 17 separate agencies oversee Musk's businesses. In recent years, these agencies have launched no fewer than 20 investigations into the billionaire's business operations. Tesla, for example, is facing half a dozen wrongful death claims relating to its self driving cars. What happens to these investigations?
- [25:01]
Unknown
Now he can maybe wipe some of those away or he can make it very difficult for those agencies to continue with those investigations. You know, as he makes cuts, for example, or decides who to appoint at these agencies, he can maybe send contracts his company's way. You know, if there's a big contract that NASA's discussing, maybe he can put his thumb on the scale and be like, hey, we have SpaceX right here. Why would you go with Blue Origin? Or why would you go with these other companies? Who needs them? So I think it remains to be seen how those play out. But yeah, there's a tremendous potential for conflict of interest across all his companies and interests.
- [25:44]
Alexi Mostrous
It's not just about Musk now being able to influence regulatory decisions.
- [25:49]
Donald Trump
I will create a Government Efficiency Commission tasked with conducting a complete financial and performance audit of the entire federal government and making recommendations for drastic reforms. We need to do it. And Elon, because he's not very busy, has agreed to head that task force. Be interesting if he has the time.
- [26:11]
Alexi Mostrous
Trump has promised him a government role that would allow him to cut government spending on regulation itself. How are you going to have the time to oversee all this shit?
- [26:21]
Elon Musk
Well, I'm pretty good at improving efficiency. I mean, I would say so, yeah.
- [26:28]
Alexi Mostrous
If this role materializes, it would mean that a man who has numerous government contracts could end up effectively marking his own homework.
- [26:38]
Unknown
I think the kind of top line thing that he's talked about is cutting $2 trillion from the government, which is an astronomical figure. In fact, at one point he made a comment where if he cut something that was important, he would just simply put it back and he just kind of said it as so. And that's kind of how he's operated at places like, I think like Twitter, for example, where he came in and started cutting things and realized some things were important or some employees were important and tried to bring them back or rehire them. He's going to take that same approach to this so called Government Efficiency Commission, something like the faa, for example, where he. He's claimed that it takes longer to do paperwork and to approve a launch than to build a rocket. That's one of his favorite talking points. He wants to get rid of that so that the builders can build, so people can put their rockets into the sky and not have to be afraid of doing environmental reports or reviews of air pollution, for example, or whatever, and just get out of the way so that entrepreneurs can do their jobs.
- [27:43]
Alexi Mostrous
I guess this melding of the business and the political, it's already happening. Musk has already asked Trump to hire some of his employees into the Defense Department. And Trump is now in favor of electric cars in a way that he was never before. But there's one big question hanging over all of this. How long can this bromance last? Elon Musk is used to being in control. That's a big theme of Ryan Mack's new book, Character Limit. Ryan's reporting reveals how Musk didn't like being just another Twitter board member. He wanted to run the company, not to be one voice amongst many. And everything I've learned in my own reporting about Musk suggests he offers people close to him two choices. His way or exile.
- [28:44]
Lynette Lopez
Just like people before him. Lynette agrees he will attempt to push Trump in a certain direction, but people who have tried to do that too much in the past have gotten burned.
- [29:00]
Alexi Mostrous
And so what do you think will happen tomorrow? Next month? Next year?
- [29:06]
Lynette Lopez
Honey, I don't know. Both of these men have very thin skin.
- [29:13]
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- [29:42]
Excludes restaurants BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self care. Imagine what you could do with more visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax.
- [30:30]
Alexi Mostrous
Last Friday, something extraordinary happened. Reports emerged that Musk had joined President elect Trump's phone call with Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president. Less than 48 hours after the election, an unelected billionaire is on the phone with two world leaders discussing the most fractious and an explosive foreign policy issue of our day, a political nightmare that Musk already has a stake in thanks to his control of satellite Internet systems above Ukraine. And one complicated further by recent reports in the Wall Street Journal that Musk has been in regular contact with Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, since late 2022. So it means something that that Musk, rather than, say, J.D. vance, was by Trump's side as he seeks to pressure Ukraine into making peace with its enemy.
- [31:29]
Unknown
But now he has the direct ear of a president. But he is in kind of unprecedented territory. Uncharted waters in some ways.
- [31:45]
Alexi Mostrous
This weekend lots of people were talking about Musk and Trump's relationship and how it might develop or collapse. But framing the next year or so as a battle between two super or anti heroes is potentially missing the point. This isn't a Marvel movie. However much the two main protagonists want it to be, the big shift has already happened. Musk's elevation is already arguably anti democratic. The billionaire is already on phone calls with world leaders. The balance of world power has already shifted. There's one more thing to say, something that several people who worked with Musk told me in my earlier reporting that ultimately all Musk really cares about more than political power or business success is Mars. And that in fact, Musk was supporting Trump because the Republican was his best hope of getting humans to the red Planet. Under Biden, the Federal Aviation Administration kept shackling Musk's rocket launchers, delaying them for failing to follow the Wright permits. When Lynette Lopez talks about Musk enriching himself in a Trump presidency, perhaps that's what she means. Not financial enrichment, but a release from regulation and investigation to pursue his ultimate multi planetary ambition.
- [33:21]
Elon Musk
Hopefully I live long enough to see my kids grow up and people on Mars.
- [33:26]
Unknown
That would be cool.
- [33:27]
Elon Musk
That's all I'm asking for here.
- [33:32]
Alexi Mostrous
To get to Mars, any spacecraft would have to fly through uncharted territory, 140 million miles of space to make that happen. Musk may have put himself in uncharted territory too, transforming himself from a quirky billionaire with a Twitter habit into the most powerful unelected person on the planet. It's already clear that Musk is going to keep on helping Trump. He's going to keep on funding his political action committee all the way through to the midterms in 2026. He's going to keep on posting on X, and he's going to keep on involving himself in government efforts to cut spending. As one former Trump staffer told us, they see themselves as mavericks riding in to save the world. Musk likes to break things and rebuild. It's a fetish. See Twitter. He was very open about it. If Musk's advice backfires, Trump will blame him and it'll get nasty, they'll fall out and I'll be ready with the popcorn. Musk has calculated that helping Trump and the Republican Party is indivisible from helping his own interests. Nobody knows how long these two stars can travel side by side without one getting sucked into the other's orbit, or what the effects of such a fallout would be on all the rest of us. This episode was written, reported and produced by me, Alexei Mostros, Garry Marshall, Matt Russell and Patricia Clark. The sound designer was Bart Warshaw. Artwork by John Hill. The executive producer was Basha Cummings.
- [35:35]
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- [36:36]
Marc Maron
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