Betrayal | Foundling Ep 5

Summary

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Foundling | Tortoise Investigates

Episode 5: Betrayal

Host/Reporter: Lucy Greenwell
Release Date: April 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the complex ethical and emotional fallout when Chloe, Jess’s half-sister, discovers that her counselor, Jennifer, is in fact Jess’s birth mother—her father's former lover. As journalist Lucy Greenwell investigates, she uncovers a web of long-held secrets, ethical breaches, and unintended consequences that ripple through both families—with devastating personal impact, culminating in Chloe’s tragic suicide.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chloe’s Mental Health Journey

• [02:40] Lucy recounts Chloe attending counseling sessions at a local NHS mental health clinic, beginning at age 18.
• Chloe initially struggles to connect with her first nurse, but later develops a trusting therapeutic relationship with a new counselor—Jennifer.
• Chloe’s mother, Debbie, describes Chloe’s fragility, long struggles with depression, and hope placed in Jennifer’s counseling.

2. The Shocking Revelation

• [05:25] Jess’s search for her biological father brings her into Chloe’s life, inadvertently uncovering the connection: Chloe’s trusted counselor is Jess’s birth mother.
• Chloe experiences deep betrayal upon learning her counselor’s identity and her link to family secrets.
  • Quote [06:57] (Lucy reads Chloe’s message):
    “I feel so betrayed. She would have known who I am as well. I feel so angry and hurt. She should never have seen me.”

3. Did Jennifer Know?

• [07:52] Chloe’s family emphatically believes Jennifer must have known Chloe’s identity, given the rarity of Chloe’s surname and the details in her medical records.
  • Quote [07:44] (Chloe's Family):
    “She must have known who Chloe were. There's no way that she didn't. I 110% believe that.”
• Lucy examines the evidence:
  • As service manager, Jennifer managed referrals and access to patients’ full records—which included direct references to Chloe’s parents (Lewis and Debbie).
  • Multiple indicators in records and real-life encounters (including personal greetings) suggest clear awareness.
  • The trust did not find a conflict of interest, but family and independent experts disagree.

4. The Personal and Professional Breach

• Chloe confided her deepest vulnerabilities, family pain, and struggles with trust to Jennifer, unaware of her personal connection.
• [13:22] (Josh, Chloe’s brother): “To imagine that at your lowest point, you had that person with the fingers in your brain…”
• Jess expresses anger over Jennifer’s actions.
  • Quote [14:39] (Jess):
    “That was the most angry I had been at her, at Jennifer, throughout the whole process. That is disgusting… She was too delicate for something like that to happen to her. She really trusted in the counseling that she was getting.”

5. Ethical Context & Failings

• [16:01] Psychologist Kevin Gorney explains why this situation is a profound breach of professional ethics:
  • Unacknowledged conflicts of interest are not only unethical but put vulnerable patients at risk.
  • Disclosure and recusal are standard practice—something all mental health professionals are annually retrained on.
  • Quote [19:06] (Kevin): “Isn't it a situation where one person knows and the other person doesn't? ... The nurse who's giving the counseling has all the power and all the knowledge.”
• The Derbyshire NHS Trust and Nursing and Midwifery Council maintain, after investigation, that no actionable conflict of interest occurred—leaving Chloe’s family feeling dismissed and invisible.

6. The Aftermath: Grief, Trust, and Institutional Response

• [22:03] Six months after the NHS Trust’s dismissive response, Chloe seems to be thriving—finishing college, buying a house, starting a new chapter.
• [22:17–23:01] Chloe dies by suicide, shocking her family and upending assumptions that she was finally “doing well.”
  • Quote [22:20] (Family): “Other times she'd been down and we knew she were down, whereas this was just completely out of the blue.”
• After Chloe’s death, her family again contacts the NHS and the NMC—including mention of Lewis and Jennifer’s public greetings at the clinic.
• The trust slightly amends its statement, admitting Jennifer “could have raised this situation” with her managers, but insists nothing would have changed for Chloe’s care.
  • Quote [24:49] (NHS Trust): “They maintain the care and treatment provided was in line with expected trust standards and there was no conflict of interest.”
• The family highlights how this destroyed Chloe’s trust in the system—effectively cutting her off from future support.
  • Quote [29:58] (Family):
    “That’s cut off now, that NHS access. She didn't want to go down that route anymore.”

7. Rippling Consequences Among Survivors

• Jess’s inclusion in the family is transformed by Chloe’s death; she feels lost, unsure of where she fits in their grief.
  • Quote [32:35] (Jess):
    “I didn’t want to overstep the mark... Where’s the boundaries? Because I’m new to the scene.”
• Jess is not told about Chloe’s funeral, heightening feelings of exclusion and sorrow.
• The episode closes by reflecting on the complexity of “truth-seeking,” the fragility of family bonds, and the far-reaching impact of hidden histories.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• Debbie on Chloe's trust in Jennifer
  [04:32] “She trusted her... she was quite responsive. And she'd usually try and get Chloe an appointment as quick as she could if she thought she needed one.”

• Chloe’s message after discovery
  [06:57] “I feel so betrayed. She would have known who I am as well. I feel so angry and hurt. She should never have seen me.”

• Josh on vulnerability
  [13:22] “To imagine that at your lowest point, you had that person with the fingers in your brain, I can't imagine how that felt for her.”

• Jess’s anger at Jennifer
  [14:39] “That was the most angry I had been at her... that is disgusting... She was too delicate for something like that to happen to her.”

• Kevin Gorney on power dynamics
  [19:06] “Isn't it a situation where one person knows and the other person doesn't?... That the nurse who's giving the counseling has all the power and all the knowledge and will be emotionally conflicted as well?”

• Family’s sense of dismissal by NHS
  [24:54] “They maintain the care and treatment provided was in line with expected trust standards and there was no conflict of interest.”

• Kim on destroyed trust
  [29:58] “That’s cut off now that NHS access that she just... didn't want to go down that route anymore.”

• Jess on exclusion
  [32:35] “I didn’t want to overstep the mark and be too, too much and, yeah, I didn’t know what to do or say, really. Where's the boundaries? Because I'm new to the scene, so how does that work?”

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Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:40 | Chloe’s counseling journey and relationship with Jennifer | | 05:25 | Discovery: Jennifer is Jess’s birth mother | | 06:57 | Chloe’s feeling of betrayal and anger | | 07:52 | Family analysis: “Did Jennifer know?” and evidence in records | | 13:22 | Sibling responses: Emotional impact on Chloe | | 14:39 | Jess’s fury at Jennifer’s ethical breach | | 16:01 | Expert analysis: Kevin Gorney on ethics and conflicts of interest | | 19:06 | Power dynamics in therapeutic relationships | | 22:03 | Chloe’s apparent improvement before her death | | 22:20 | Family’s shock at Chloe’s suicide | | 23:01–24:49| NHS and NMC official responses; meetings between Lewis and Jennifer | | 29:58 | Kim describes the rupture in trust toward NHS and mental health services | | 32:35 | Jess on navigating family boundaries after loss |

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Tone and Style

• Respectful yet probing, with an investigative, empathetic approach.
• First-person narration from Lucy Greenwell is reflective and emotionally engaged.
• Family members’ voices are direct, raw, and candid.
• Professional experts provide clarity and gravitas amid personal distress.

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Conclusion

Episode 5: Betrayal exposes the ethical and emotional consequences of hidden connections and institutional failings, centering on the story of Chloe, her tragic death, and the aftermath for all involved. Lucy Greenwell’s reporting underscores the imperative of trust, transparency, and accountability—reminding listeners of the profound human cost when these are lost or dismissed. The episode ends on unresolved pain, with questions lingering about responsibility, healing, and the true meaning of family.

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Next time on Foundling:
Lucid revelations, further family confrontations, and continued search for truth and closure.

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Transcript

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[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

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[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Tortoise investigates. I've been thinking so much about what went on inside those walls. He walked past the car park where I can only guess that Chloe parked up with her mum or her dad, left the car, crossed the road, walked in, pressed the buzzer and then in they went. From the age of 18. This is where Chloe, Jess's half sister, would come for her counseling sessions. It's a boxy three story NHS building not far from the center of her local town. When Chloe first starts coming here, it isn't a great success. Chloe doesn't really click with the community mental health nurse she's been paired with. But after a year or so, she begins having sessions with a new counsellor, one she really likes. Each time, for about an hour, she sits in a room inside this building and tells the woman everything I should tell you now by way of a warning. In November 2023, before we began reporting this story, Chloe died by suicide. She was 23 years old. Chloe's mental health had been fragile for years. According to Chloe's mum, Debbie, there were times when she would sort of disappear into herself, lying in bed for days, not speaking, not engaging with anyone. So this counsellor she begins seeing in the autumn of 2019 feels like a new start, a source of hope.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

She trusted her. She thought she were all right, she thought she were nice, she was quite responsive. And she'd usually try and get Chloe an appointment as quick as she could if she thought she needed one.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Their sessions aren't always regular. At one stage, Chloe is discharged and then referred back again. In the end, Jennifer counsels Chloe for roughly a year. But after this, she's still in the background, someone Chloe can ask for help if she needs to. So this is where things are at when in August 2022, Jess arrives on the scene searching for her biological father. For Chloe, at that point, Jennifer is simply someone she trusts. But that's about to change.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

I don't know, I just thought it's a bit of a coincidence if it's the same name.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

The news breaks slowly. First, Debbie learns of Jess existence. A few days pass, details come out in fragments. Debbie asks more questions. And then it hits her. The woman who's been counseling her vulnerable daughter is Jess birth mother. Without realising it, Chloe has been sharing her deepest anxieties with a woman who'd had a secret relationship with her father. A woman who'd had his baby abandoned it and never told a soul.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

She just kept saying she felt violated. That's the word that she kept using. And she angry because she trusted Jennifer. And not only that, the fact that dad had allowed that to happen, so that meant that really, did he care about her at all? What more important to him? Keeping his secrets covered up or putting his daughter in a situation that she shouldn't have been in? Having this woman that he'd had an affair with counseling her. So I think it kinda shook her because obviously she trusted my dad and she trusted Jennifer.

She really liked her and we thought that she cared about her.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Jess has shown me a message Chloe sends her soon afterwards. It says, I feel so betrayed. She would have known who I am as well. I feel so angry and hurt. She should never have seen me. I'm Lucy Greenwell and from Tortoise Investigates and the Observer. You're listening to Foundling episode five Betrayal. Maybe Jennifer didn't know who Chloe was. Maybe Jennifer didn't make the connection that she knew Chloe's family much more intimately than she let on. Like maybe she didn't know that. What would you say?

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

Yeah, she did. She must have known who Chloe were. There's no way that she didn't. I 110% believe that she knew who Chloe were.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Chloe's family is convinced that Jennifer knew who she was and how their lives were connected. But what if she didn't? This is such an important question to try and answer, so let's look at the evidence. We know that when Chloe is first seen by the adult NHS mental health team, she's briefly treated by someone else. But in 2019, when Chloe's 19, Jennifer takes over her care. Jennifer was and still is in a senior role at the clinic, so she manages referrals from GPs and supervises other therapists. She also has some of her own patients. Chloe's family has shared Chloe's medical notes with me and in the notes I can see that on the 17th of September 2019, Chloe's mental health nurse is off sick and so Jennifer covers for her. That seems to be their first meeting and perhaps it's supposed to be a one off, but one week later a letter is sent to Chloe's GP which says that Jennifer is now Chloe's new counsellor and it confirms their next two appointments. And yet Chloe has an unusual surname, one her family believe Jennifer Wood have instantly recognized.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

Chloe's surname is not really very common. I mean, yeah, there are other people in where we live with that name, but it isn't a very common name.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

I've scoured the electoral register and there are very few people living in the town who share this Germanic surname. If it rang any kind of bell for Jennifer and she wanted to double check whether Chloe was related to anyone she knew, she had only to look at Chloe's medical notes. These notes tell a devastating story of her struggle with mental health, beginning with her self harming at the age of 13. When you turn 18, your folder goes with you. From the youth service to the adult mental health team, we've seen Chloe's folder. Years of records and documents. A tower of paper heavy enough that you need both hands to lift it. Everything about her life, her struggles, her family, it's all in there. As the service manager, Jennifer would have seen this folder before she ever met Chloe. And as her counsellor, she surely would have spent some time reading it.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

She would have seen from Chloe's notes that who her parents were, it would have been on her nose.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Not just her father's surname but his first name too. Lewis.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

And again, his first name's not really. I mean, it might be more common now, but it's not that common. And the spelling of it was kind of unusual for a person his age.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Is it possible that that Jennifer had completely forgotten this name so that when her eyes scanned it, nothing registered? To me, it's a stretch. If you've had a relationship with someone, let alone had their baby, it's hard to imagine you'd ever forget their name, no matter how many decades have passed.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

She's gone into that room at some, at lowest points in her life when she's been really vulnerable, not feeling well at all, and she doesn't entirely remember what she said to her, what's been discussed,

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Chloe might not remember. But after each appointment, Jennifer writes a few lines for Chloe's records. What they talked about, how Chloe seemed. And looking at the records, a lot comes up. Chloe's childhood, her teenage years, her parents, unhappy relationship, their failings and foibles, everything. After one session, Jennifer writes that her parents are arguing all the time, snapping at each other. On another occasion, Jennifer notes that she had asked Chloe to write a letter to her parents telling them how they make her feel, how the atmosphere in their house is making her feel. These regular counseling sessions between Jennifer and Chloe appear to come to an end in the summer of 2020, two years before Chloe would discover that Jennifer was the mother of her half sister. Looking at Chloe's records, it seems to peter out. The last note from Jennifer is in August 2020, when Chloe hadn't turned up to her appointment, Jennifer texts her to set up a session for the following week. If that happened, there's no record of it. In August 2022, Chloe and her family try to make sense of what they found out. The deception.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

It's Chloe not knowing and that's what Chloe. That's what affected her. It's the fact that she knew and Chloe didn't know.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

The questions why did she do it?

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

Why did she want to counsel Chloe?

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

And from Chloe's brother Josh, the anger, it's sadistic.

[Chloe's Brother Josh]

And to imagine that at your lowest point, you had that person with the fingers in your brain, I can't imagine how that felt for her.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

I've put this to Jennifer. Why did she treat Chloe even though she knew of their connection, but I've had no response? Perhaps she took on Chloe's case out of a misjudged kindness, a confidence born of experience, that she was good at her job and believed she could help. And there was no way anyone would guess that their lives were intertwined. Right? This professional glitch would surely never be exposed. Or was her decision driven by curiosity, a way of finding out more about Lewis and the big family he went on to have with Debbie?

[Jess (Half-sister of Chloe)]

Just another. Another thing. I didn't think the story could get any more unbelievable. She said she told her things that, you know, if she'd have known, she would never have said. She just couldn't get her head around it at all.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Like when Jess finds out about the connection between her birth mother and her half sister Chloe, she's furious.

[Jess (Half-sister of Chloe)]

That was the most angry I had been at her, at Jennifer, throughout the whole process, like that is disgusting. To do that, like knowing exactly who she is, to try and counsel her through that. Listen to her upbringing, her stories of her dad, our dad, and to continue to counsel that, even though knowing that's a conflict of interest, knowing exactly she's had a baby with her dad, she's just. She was too delicate for something like that to happen to her. She really trusted in the counseling that she was getting.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

For months, Chloe does nothing, in part because she's sure Jennifer will be in serious trouble for what she's done and she feels bad. But Chloe is training to become a mental health nurse herself and so she knows from her studies that what Jennifer has done is against the rules. So finally, seven months later, she acts. In the spring of 2023, she finds an NHS online complaint form and she writes in. Chloe tells them that her counsellor turned out to be intimately connected to her life and that Jennifer knew who she was and yet treated her anyway.

[Kevin Gorney (Psychologist and Scientist)]

It sounds to me like an overwhelming conflict of interest. I can't really see how that could be just dismissed.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Kevin Gorney is a psychologist and a scientist and, like Jennifer, a registered nurse. He's now 80, but he's known as a pioneer of mental health nursing in the uk. I'm hoping he can help me understand the rules. And I've made a start by reading the latest nursing code of conduct, published in 2015.

[Kevin Gorney (Psychologist and Scientist)]

You won't find anything to cover this situation.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

It's true. There's nothing in there about this exact situation, because, let's be honest, what's happened here is pretty unusual.

[Kevin Gorney (Psychologist and Scientist)]

What you will find is, is you'll find overall topics about standards which will, I think, be relevant to this situation. It sounds very much to me as if there was a serious breach of the code.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

But why do you say that? Why are you so sure?

[Kevin Gorney (Psychologist and Scientist)]

Why am I so sure? Because there's clearly a conflict of interest which hasn't been disclosed.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Professional boundaries in mental health settings are considered critical. There has to be a clear separation between personal and professional roles, and the therapist is supposed to have the patient's best interests at heart. A conflict of interest is anything that gets in the way of that. Another relationship, a personal connection, something that means they can't be fully impartial. Jennifer had two conflicts. She had a hidden connection to Chloe's family, which Chloe knew nothing about, and she had a personal stake in the situation. She had had a baby with Chloe's father. Now, even if at that stage she wasn't certain the baby was Lewis's, his paternity must have still been a possibility. So it's still a close connection. Either of these things might shape her questions to Chloe and influence decisions about her care.

[Kevin Gorney (Psychologist and Scientist)]

Conflicts of interest occur all the time in healthcare because if you're in a local community, you know people. Now, if you know somebody well, but you think you can still do a professional job, you have to disclose to that person what the conflict of interest is and what should be done about it. Both parties have to decide whether it's a reasonable thing to do to proceed. Sometimes it might be that you go to the practice for your flu jab and the nurse giving the flu jab is somebody you know, and they say, well, we know each other. Is it all right if I give you the flu jab? So you'll probably say, yes, of course it's all right.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

But this wasn't a Flu jab.

[Kevin Gorney (Psychologist and Scientist)]

It's unethical because you've got one person with all the power.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Is that what it is?

[Kevin Gorney (Psychologist and Scientist)]

Yes. Isn't it a situation where one person knows and the other person doesn't? Isn't that a simple description of what's gone on? That the nurse who's giving the counseling has all the power and all the knowledge and it will be emotionally conflicted as well?

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Before reporting this story, I hadn't realised how fundamental this point is. Every psychologist and mental health clinician I've spoken to knows this ethical framework inside out. And every single year they have to complete refresher training to keep those skills sharp. It's drilled in. They all say the same thing. If the medical records of anyone you know, however tenuously, your parents at the same school you once work with, their husband, you know their cousin well, comes onto your desk, you report it immediately and recuse yourself. Two months later, Derbyshire NHS Trust responds to Chloe. The Chief Executive writes, I'd like to

[NHS Trust Representative]

offer you my sincere apologies for the upset and any distress caused. The investigator's view and that of the Assistant Director of Safeguarding Adults, is that there was no conflict of interest at that time. Please can I assure you that there is no indication of any inappropriate actions or clinical decisions made by Jennifer?

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

To Chloe and her family, this sounds a lot like a dismissal.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

It's not good enough. Saying it's not a conflict of interest and just sort of batting her off. It's not.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

It's not a good enough answer for her sister, Kim. Nothing in the letter speaks to Chloe's sense that her trust has been betrayed.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

Even just acknowledgement, like genuine acknowledgement, rather than just being brushed off. Acknowledgement that it was wrong, she shouldn't have been counseling her. Even that would have felt better than what we got.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Chloe doesn't appeal the decision. Instead, she tries as best she can to move on. Six months pass after that NHS response in the summer of 2023, and Chloe seems to be in a good place. She's busy with college, she's living with her boyfriend and they're trying to buy a house.

[Chloe's Brother Josh]

She'd never really been in a better position than what she was, it seemed. Anyway, she'd just finished the unicourse, she was doing really well with that. She was throwing ideas around about starting a family and whatnot.

[Jess (Half-sister of Chloe)]

She was in a really good place. I remember her telling me that she'd bought a new car. You know, she'd just finished her degree.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

On Friday 10th November 2023, Chloe takes her own life. Despite her long history of mental health struggles, her death comes as a huge shock.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

The other times she'd been down and we knew she were down, whereas this was just completely out of blue.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

For years, the family has existed in a constant state of worry and vigilance when it comes to Chloe. But in late 2023, they thought things

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

were okay and she'd message me same, just saying that they'd had their offer accepted.

And

I just said, you know, that's brilliant and what have you. And that last text I had offer.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

After Chloe's death, Debbie and Kim write to the NHS to complain. They mention something really important, something that, when I heard, it struck me as evidence that Jennifer did remember Lewis. Debbie would accompany Chloe to her appointments. Actually, she'd regularly join Chloe for the last few minutes of the session. But Debbie doesn't drive, so the two of them would often be dropped off and picked up by Lewis. Sometimes he'd be there in the waiting area of the clinic when they emerged from their session.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

On one occasion, quite early on, when she started seeing Chloe, her dad came and picked us up and he was in the waiting room and she spoke to him. They both spoke to one another and said hello.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Debbie remembers this meeting between Jennifer and Lewis quite clearly because she wondered how he seemed to know her. This is almost certainly at some point in late 2019, soon after Jennifer has started treating Chloe.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

And I actually said to him, who is she? And he said she was a friend of one of his mates.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Chloe had also mentioned this meeting in her complaint. In the NHS response to Chloe, the trust acknowledged that, yes, Lewis and Jennifer did greet each other politely in that waiting room. In the letter sent to Kim and Debbie after Chloe's death, the trust references an earlier investigation, but concludes only that

[NHS Trust Representative]

on reflection, a point of learning is that Jennifer could have raised this situation and discussed this with with her manager.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

And here's where it starts to look odd.

[NHS Trust Representative]

They maintain the care and treatment provided was in line with expected trust standards and there was no conflict of interest.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

They acknowledged that, yes, Jennifer should have discussed the meeting with her manager, but

[NHS Trust Representative]

they add it is not felt that this would have changed the decision for Jennifer to continue to support Chloe.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

So, hold on. The NHS acknowledges that yes, Jennifer did seem to know Chloe's father and greeted him in the waiting area, but no, there isn't a conflict of interest and they're saying that even if they'd known this, nothing would have changed for Chloe. Jennifer still would have treated her. There's more. This wasn't the only meeting between Jennifer and Lewis during the period when Jennifer was counselling Chloe, he'd actually been to

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

her house and dropped a Christmas card.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

How do you know?

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

Because he told me.

How did he know where she lived?

Because she only lives just down from where she used to live, don't she? I don't know.

How did he know that? Do you know what I mean? It doesn't add up, does it?

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

For the family, this dropping off of the Christmas card in 2019 is more evidence that both Lewis and Jennifer let Chloe down by not acknowledging their connection.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

She invited him in for coffee, apparently, and when I said, well, what were you doing that for? And he said, I wanted to thank her for being good with Chloe.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Lewis appears not to be troubled that someone he has known intimately is his daughter's therapist. I wanted to ask him about this. Did he worry about how it might affect Chloe if she was ever to find out? Oh, oh, hi. Hello. Is that Lewis? But when I initially managed to get hold of him, he says he doesn't want to talk to me for the podcast

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[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Amazon Health AI presents painful thoughts.

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Why did I search the Internet for

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

answers to my cold sore problem? Now I'm stuck down a rabbit hole filled with images of alarmingly graphic source

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[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

I can clear my search history, but I can never unsee that.

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Healthcare just got less painful

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

after Chloe's death. Her mother and sister write to the professional body that regulates nurses, the Nursing and Midwifery Council, or nmc. In its response, the NMC insists there's no evidence Jennifer didn't adhere to their professional standards of honesty and integrity. We don't have evidence which clearly indicates

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that she was aware of the personal

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

connection between her and Chloe while she was involved in Chloe's care and failed to disclose this. Except the NHS did know that Jennifer had spoken to Lewis in the waiting area. Chloe's family are baffled by the official response.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

At the end of the day, she's taking a massive risk, isn't she?

Well, you would think so. You'd think it were a massive risk, you'd think she were putting a job at risk. But from responses that we've had, they don't give a shit, do they?

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

The way Kim and Debbie see it, Jennifer's treatment of Chloe destroyed her trust in the medical profession.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

That's cut off now that NHS access that she just. She didn't want to. She didn't want to go down that route anymore. So to Chloe, that's just. That's gone.

I don't think I've still fully accepted it, to be honest. There's still a part of me that thinks this can't be happening. It's not real.

It was my biggest fear that it ended up happening and it was the worst thing that could have happened. And I think. I think I'll always be angry because you're constantly thinking, could it have ended differently had things been different?

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

There's never one reason someone takes their life and we're not attributing Chloe's death to. To what happened with her counselling. But for her family, this is a part of her story and they still feel that they haven't had answers. So I contacted Derbyshire NHS Trust. What did they have to say about the fact that Jennifer knew Chloe's father and didn't disclose? Seems likely. Jennifer always knew that Lewis was the father of the baby she abandoned in the 80s and if she didn't know for certain, she must have at least suspected. So what did the Trust think of that conflict of interest and why has no action been taken? They responded with, we appreciate these are very difficult circumstances for all involved and extend our condolences to Chloe's family following her sad loss. The Trust is unable to discuss individual circumstances due to patient and staff confidentiality. We sent two pages detailing everything we've been told to the Nursing and Midwifery Council too, asking for their response. In their reply, they didn't address them, but offered their condolences to Chloe's family and said they wouldn't comment on individual cases.

[Jess (Half-sister of Chloe)]

I didn't know how to the dynamics and how to deal with it because I was. I really, really wanted to be there for them.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Chloe was part of Jess Life for just 17 months. Navigating her loss has been really hard. Jess has gained dozens of family members in recent years, but she's struggled to establish relationships with many of them. With Chloe and Kim, it was different. Jess felt she'd gained two sisters. But when Chloe dies, Jess is conscious that she isn't in fact, a member of their family.

[Jess (Half-sister of Chloe)]

I didn't want to overstep the mark and be too, too much and, yeah, I didn't know what to do or say, really. Where's the boundaries? Because I'm new to the scene, so how does that work?

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

In the end, the decision is made for her. No one tells Jess about Chloe's funeral. She finds out sometime afterwards. For Jess, that might be the hardest part of her search to come to terms with. How much has been broken in the process? How many lives have been upended by her simple desire to know where she came from? Next time on Foundling.

[Jess (Half-sister of Chloe)]

I said, actually, before I boil the kettle, can you just tell me what the hell this is about? Because you're making me panic so bad.

[Chloe's Family Member (possibly Debbie or Kim)]

She goes, that's your mom.

[Jess (Half-sister of Chloe)]

That's exactly what my mum done.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

She had plenty of opportunity, really, didn't

[Chloe's Brother Josh]

she, to tell me, and she never did.

[Jess (Half-sister of Chloe)]

I can hear them talking. She just wants the attention. I'd love to be able to just take a pill and then forget that they even existed. I don't care. At this point,

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Foundling is reported by me, Lucy Greenwell. It's written by me and Katie Gunning, who's also the series producer. The theme music was composed by Tom Kinsella. Sound design and additional music was by Rowan Bishop. Podcast artwork is by Blythe Walker Sibthorpe. The development producer was Jess Swinburne. The narrative editor was Garry Marshall. The editor is Jasper Corbett.

[Chloe's Brother Josh]

Foreign.

[Lucy Greenwell (Narrator/Reporter)]

Hi, it's Lucy. Before you go, I just want to say thank you so much for listening. Because we've had such an overwhelming response to the series, we're going to be making a special bonus episode for observer subscribers where we will put your questions directly to Jess. If there's anything you'd like to ask her or us, please send us an email or a voice note to foundlingbserver.co.uk we'd love to hear from you. We'll be back next week for our final episode

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[NHS Trust Representative]

Say hello to Mia hey there. Mia runs a pet grooming service in Chicago, but getting new clients was rough

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until I started using acast.

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Mia's business is looking sharp.

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