Cider at Haye | The Walkers Ep3

Summary

The Walkers: The Real Salt Path | Episode 3 — “Cider at Hay”

Podcast: The Walkers: The Real Salt Path (Tortoise Investigates & The Observer)
Host: Chloe Hadjimatheou
Original Air Date: January 20, 2026
Episode: 3 – “Cider at Hay”
Reporter: Chloe Hadjimatheou
Producer: Matt Russell

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Episode Overview

This gripping third installment delves deeper into the true story behind Raynor Winn’s celebrated memoir, The Salt Path. The book famously chronicles Raynor and her husband Moth’s 630-mile trek following financial ruin and a terminal diagnosis, becoming a global literary sensation. However, as Chloe Hadjimatheou investigates, tensions, inconsistencies, and suspicions arise regarding the couple’s claimed hardships, Moth’s illness, and their time spent at a cider-making farm in Cornwall. The story unfolds through interviews with the Walkers’ former neighbors, landlord, and the new owner of their old home—uncovering a complex and highly emotional web of memory, myth, and possible fabrication.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting the Walkers’ Lost Home in Wales (01:34–07:29)

• Setting: Chloe visits the quirky, stone house in rural Wales at the heart of The Salt Path. It's now owned by Maxine Faramond.

• Rumors & Reality: Local gossip swirls about the Walkers’ departure, including rumors of theft and a mysterious, swift move out.

• Contradicting Narratives: The Walkers’ book describes a desperate, last-minute eviction, but neighbors recall them leaving in the night with all their belongings—no bailiff confrontation.

• Memorable Moment (05:20):

  “It says, Tim heart, Sal Kiss, kiss, kiss. And there's a date.”
  – Maxine Faramond, finding a hidden signature in the old plaster

• Ongoing Consequences: Maxine continues to receive bailiff and solicitor letters for the Walkers, suggesting unresolved debts and possible use of her address.

2. Connecting with Hay Farm and the Community in Cornwall (07:07–19:22)

• Maxine’s Search: Seeking to end the mail, Maxine tracks down the Walkers at their Cornish address—Hay Farm—and speaks to owner Bill Cole.

• Bill Cole’s Perspective: Bill is initially captivated by the Walkers’ story and generosity, offering them low rent and possibly ownership.

• Red Flags Emerge: Both Bill and neighbor Ruth Saberton (an author who moved in nearby) grow concerned as inconsistencies surface about Moth’s condition and the couple’s activities.

• Quote (13:12):

  “It was like meeting a rock star, really. He had so much presence. … He’s a very tall guy. … Warm and friendly and talkative.”
  – Ruth Saberton, first impressions of Moth

• Life at Hay Farm: The Walkers give the impression of living rustically and productively—making cider and maintaining the farm—yet eyewitness accounts suggest much of this was staged.

3. Fissures Between Fact and Memoir (19:26–29:41)

• Book vs. Reality: The Wild Silence and Landlines, sequels to The Salt Path, depict Moth suffering severe illness, at times unable to walk or function—contrasting sharply with his active participation in strenuous farm work.

• Neighbors’ Confusion: Ruth and Bill wrestle with the contradiction between the public narrative of imminent death and their private observations of Moth’s health and activities.

• Quote (28:57):

  "It’s rewired his brain. It’s done some kind of neurological reset. Something’s happened and he’s still with us. I was just really confused why they wouldn’t have told people … why they wouldn’t have told the good news to their close friends like Bill.”
  – Ruth Saberton, expressing confusion after reading about Moth’s miraculous recovery in the memoirs

4. Emotional Fallout and the Breaking of Trust (29:41–33:30)

• Contrast Between Reality & Memoir: Bill and Ruth feel blindsided, having offered support through what they believed were desperate times, only to find out through the book of miraculous recoveries and experiences they were never told about.
• Literary Scrutiny: Ruth re-examines the memoirs critically, spotting implausible legal and medical details.
• Quote (33:30):

  "I’ve got to look at these again and I’ve got to take off the part of me that knows them, cares about them … and I started to make copious notes about what made sense and what didn’t."
  – Ruth Saberton, on her growing skepticism

5. Media Interest and Further Discrepancies (34:31–40:31)

• National Media Descends: The Walkers continue to attract attention, including a BBC feature where the cider-making is showcased, despite evidence that they hadn’t actually produced cider themselves.
• Their Departure: The Walkers abruptly hand in their notice, supposedly due to Moth’s health, and leave Hay Farm without farewells, leaving Bill hurt both financially and emotionally.
• Quote (40:31):

  “He felt profoundly hurt, but also unnerved because he’d let them in for almost five years and now he wasn’t even sure he knew who they were.”
  – Chloe Hadjimatheou, on Bill Cole’s state after their departure

6. Continuing the Public Story, Facing Private Doubt (40:31–44:13)

• Ongoing Fame: The Walkers’ story continues—books, interviews, and even a film deal (with Jason Isaacs and Gillian Anderson).

• Lingering Questions: Observers and those closest feel increasingly skeptical about the accuracy and honesty of the memoirs, specifically regarding the course of Moth’s illness.

• Quote (43:48):

  “No. It is dangerous with a condition which is as severe as this to promote an idea that strenuous exercise could reversal cure it.” – Bill Cole, expressing concerns about false hope for serious illness (43:48)

7. Raynor Winn’s Response (44:13–45:56)

• Official Statement: Raynor stands by her memoirs as truthful, calls doubts about Moth’s diagnosis “utterly vile, unfair and false,” and emphasizes the books are not medical advice but a personal account.

• Quote from Raynor’s statement (44:13):

  “The suggestion that Moth has made up his illness is utterly vile, unfair and false. … I have never sought to offer medical advice in my books or suggest that walking might be some sort of miracle cure. I’m simply charting Moth’s own personal journey and battle with his illness and what has helped him.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[05:20] It says, Tim heart, Sal Kiss, kiss, kiss. And there's a date.”
  – Maxine Faramond, discovering the Walkers’ signature in the plaster of their old home.
• “[13:12] It was like meeting a rock star, really. He had so much presence. … Warm and friendly and talkative.”
  – Ruth Saberton, about meeting Moth.
• “[28:57] It’s rewired his brain. … I was just really confused why they wouldn’t have told people, why they wouldn’t have told the good news to their close friends like Bill.”
  – Ruth Saberton, reflecting on the disparity between memoir and lived events.
• “[33:30] …I’ve got to look at these again and … started to make copious notes about what made sense and what didn’t.”
  – Ruth Saberton, re-reading the memoirs with skepticism.
• “[43:48] No. It is dangerous with a condition which is as severe as this to promote an idea that strenuous exercise could reversal cure it.”
  – Bill Cole, on the dangers of the memoir’s message.
• “[44:13] …The suggestion that Moth has made up his illness is utterly vile, unfair and false. …I have never sought to offer medical advice in my books…”
  – Raynor Winn, statement in response to The Observer’s investigation.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:34–07:29: Revisiting the old house in Wales & local rumors (with Maxine Faramond)
• 07:07–19:22: Hay Farm backstory, the arrival of the Walkers, and neighbor perspectives (Bill Cole, Ruth Saberton)
• 19:26–29:41: Discrepancies in memoir vs. real life, Moth’s health examined
• 29:41–33:30: Emotional fallout, trust erodes among close friends and supporters
• 34:31–40:31: Media presence and the Walkers’ abrupt exit from the farm
• 40:31–44:13: Aftermath, continuing public narrative versus private doubt
• 44:13–45:56: Raynor Winn’s official response

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Key Takeaways

• Contradictory Details: Significant differences exist between the Walkers’ published story and both legal/medical plausibility and testimonies of those who lived and worked closely with them.
• Rising Suspicion: Neighbors and friends transition from awe and empathy to skepticism and concern as the Walkers’ private actions clash with their public narrative.
• Emotional Impact: Bill Cole and Ruth Saberton feel emotionally manipulated and hurt, reflecting a wider betrayal for all invested in the memoirs’ hope and redemptive arc.
• Ethical Questions: The episode raises challenging questions about fact versus fiction in memoir, the responsibilities of authors crafting “true stories,” and the ethical implications of hope and inspiration built on potentially shaky foundations.
• Public Statement: Raynor Winn refutes all allegations, emphasizing that Moth’s illness was real, her books are honest, and she has never offered medical advice.

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Tone & Language

The episode maintains a tone of measured skepticism and investigative rigor. Chloe’s narration is empathetic but probing, intertwining personal stories, community perspectives, and factual examination. The voices of Maxine, Ruth, and Bill add emotional complexity, ranging from warmth and nostalgia to grief and bewilderment.

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This episode is a nuanced, sometimes haunting look at the blurring lines between myth, memoir, and reality—asking, “How far can you bend the truth before it begins to break?” It sets up further explorations into the veracity and impact of the Walkers’ extraordinary story in upcoming episodes.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

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[Narrator/Host]

Reggie, I just sold my car online. Let's go grandpa. Wait, you did? Yep, on Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

You don't say. Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow.

[Narrator/Host]

Talk about fast.

[Bill Cole]

Wow.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Way to go.

[Narrator/Host]

So about that picture frame. Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested. Car selling made easy on car pick up. These may apply.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

The Observer. Can I. Can I have a little tour?

[Maxine Faramond]

You can. It's changed since the Walkers have been here, but yeah, it's on the market.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

At the very heart of the Salt Path is this quirky whitewashed stone building surrounded by fields in rural Wales. It's there at the beginning of the story and its loss echoes throughout the book and its sequels. It was once the forever home of Moth and Rainer Wynn. Real names Tim and Sally Walker. They lived there for 20 years and raised two children between these walls. Was this their living room?

[Maxine Faramond]

Yes, that's change, you see. So that was built in. They had a built in fire in there. It all brick is. I think it was bricked up or something like that. But they didn't realize there's a big leak coming in from the back, so it's all rusty and things like that. I mean it was in a right old mess.

[Narrator/Host]

I mean it was water.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Maxine Faramond lives here now. A cheerful woman in her 60s with long white hair. Maxine's a former police officer who bought the house after she retired in 2016. By that time it had been sitting empty for almost four years after it was repossessed. Raina Wynne talks about losing the house in the Salt Path. And in almost every interview she's done, often using the exact same phrases like she's reading from A script.

[Narrator/Host]

We were in the house at the last moment, the last moment when the bailiffs were knocking on the door.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

The bailiffs were knocking on the door and we were. We were hiding under the stairs, actually hiding under the stairs, actually not pretending, not probably thinking that some miracle was going to happen.

[Narrator/Host]

Thought we wouldn't have to go because.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

We just didn't feel ready to leave it. I don't think we would ever have been ready to leave. I love how bright it is sitting in the bath looking out at the trees. Maxine offers me tea and a grand tour. The place is rickety, with low ceilings and sloping stone walls. The original bit of the house, where the kitchen is, dates back to the 1600s. When they left, the Walkers took almost everything with them. The farmer who lives next door told me they left in the middle of the night. He saw vans driving off carrying them and all their stuff. So no hiding under the stairs. They were long gone when the bailiffs came knocking. They didn't leave much behind except all the fittings and interior decoration they'd furnished the place with. Maxine could tell this was a couple with style. And that wood paneling on the walls.

[Maxine Faramond]

Yeah, the wood paneling was done. These are slate tiles. It was all fair.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

When Maxine took the place over, she knew very little about its previous owners, except that they'd been responsible for converting an old barn into a granny flat and that the man had a profession.

[Maxine Faramond]

I found a little placard, but it said master plaster on it. Other things are a little bit wonky, you know, like the woodworking and things are not great, but the plastering, you can tell somebody knows what they're doing. When I was decorating, I was up in the corner there and I saw, you know, what I thought was rough plaster and then I realized it was a signature.

[Narrator/Host]

Will you.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Will you show me?

[Maxine Faramond]

It's in the corner. Yeah. Probably need a chair to stand on. It's just in the.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Oh, yeah, it's quite hard to see. Hang on.

[Maxine Faramond]

Watch your head.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

On the.

[Narrator/Host]

Oh, yeah, yeah, I can see.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

It says, Tim heart, Sal Kiss, kiss, kiss. And there's a date. Soon after Maxine moved in, she began hearing rumors about the previous owners around town. The rumors were that the woman had stolen a lot of money from her employer and had somehow got away with it.

[Maxine Faramond]

Introduced myself to local people and they said, oh, you know, well, Tim and Sally used to have that property. And then someone said, oh, do you know, she'd written a book.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

But even after she'd finished Reading the Salt Path, Maxine found this mysterious couple intruding on her piece.

[Maxine Faramond]

I was receiving letters from the time that I took the property on.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

So you moved in here years after the Walkers had left, but you were still getting letters for them?

[Maxine Faramond]

Yeah, yeah, from day one, you know, lots and lots and lots of them. And I kept just putting return to sender on the backs of all these letters. And in the end I started to open them up and then I found they were bailiff's letters and solicitor's letters.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

And so now Maxine's worried. She gets the sense that something is seriously up with this property. Apart from anything else, there are parking fines and speeding tickets, which seem to indicate that Tim Walker is still using her address on his driving license.

[Maxine Faramond]

And I thought, flip a neck, I've got something serious going on with the property that's gonna, you know, just ruin it all.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

So Maxine, the former police officer, starts digging around online and then I think.

[Maxine Faramond]

I found her on company's under the pseudonym of Raina Wynne, found an address. So I wrote to the farm that they were staying at in Cornwall to politely say, you know, all these letters are still coming. Can you just change your address and stop them coming to my address?

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

The farm they were staying at was called Hay. It's nestled among Cornish green fields with a couple of rivers running alongside it. And having had no response to her letters, one day back in 2023, Maxine picks up the phone and calls right away, the owner answers. A posh sounding guy called Bill Cole.

[Maxine Faramond]

Chatting on the phone. And I told him about some stories that I'd heard locally about Sally stealing some money. It was just gossip when I came up here, you know, and I thought, oh, it's just gossip. I'll take it with a pinch of salt.

[Narrator/Host]

It was funny.

[Maxine Faramond]

And so I didn't think much of it. But then when talking to Bill, he was saying how he felt about them and he was getting a little bit suspicious about them.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

She couldn't have known when she called, but right then, Bill was going through his own turmoil around the couple. For close to five years, they'd been his tenants and his friends living on his farm. Rainer Wynne had written two sequels to the Salt Path there. Bill and his farm were featured in one of them. He was in awe of the couple. He'd only charged them a tiny rent and was even thinking of signing the farmhouse over to them permanently. But around four years after they'd come to stay, Bill began feeling a bit uncomfortable. What he was reading in Rainer's books about Moth's health just didn't seem to match what he was seeing in person. And by the time her third book, Landlines, was published, Bill had become deeply confused. He just couldn't square the couple living on his farm with the people he was reading about in Rainer's books. It was around a year after Bill's confusion set in that Maxine called, talking about this couple who seemed to have changed their names, about rumours of theft from an employer and stacks of late payment letters and bailiff notices.

[Maxine Faramond]

When I told him about the stories up here, he was quite shocked. It really cemented what he was feeling about the Walkers in his situation.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

But if Maxine thought Bill could help her get in touch with Rainer and Moth, she was going to be disappointed.

[Maxine Faramond]

By the time I was chatting to Bill, they'd actually gone.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Very suddenly, the Walkers had vanished. I'm Chloe Hajimotheou and from Tortoise Investigates and the observer, you're listening to the Walkers, the Real Salt Path Episode 3 Cider at Hay.

[Narrator/Host]

When we bought this property, that was when Bill said to us, well, my tenant, your neighbour is Raina Wynne.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

When Ruth Saberton moved in next door to Hay Farm, she was excited. She'd met Rainer Wynne once before, in 2019, when they were both up for awards for their writing, Ruth's for fiction, Rainer's for non fiction. Around two decades ago. Ruth used to be an English teacher in London, but she dreamed of being an author, so she quit and moved to Cornwall to follow her two great writing and riding. Ruth is about as horse mad as you get. Since then, she's become a pretty successful author with more than 25 novels published, more mostly historical romance. Back in 2020, she and her partner Christian bought a defunct old riding school off Bill, which had once been part of Hay Farm. They planned to renovate it, but meanwhile she could keep horses and write. So when Bill told her who her neighbours were going to be, she was sure that she and Raina would get on. But Bill warned her from rushing over.

[Narrator/Host]

There and he said, just obviously they're really, really private people. They've been really hurt by Cooper in the past and they just want to be left in peace. So I was really respectful of that.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Cooper was the man Raina Wynne claimed had conned her out of her home in Wales. She'd written about how hard she found it to trust people after that. But actually, when Ruth finally got the courage to knock on her door, she found a friendly, rather sweet woman, maybe a bit shy, but she was so.

[Narrator/Host]

Welcoming because it was really cold outside. You come in, she said, don't worry, Mott's gone to Moor Valley Farmers, the farm shop. So come on in, have a cup of tea. And it was really nice to think there might be somebody nearby to talk books to. And the whole process of being in your pyjamas till sort of three in the morning, trying to finish deadline.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

It was during that strange time a few years back between COVID lockdowns, when people were emerging in different stages of caution.

[Narrator/Host]

I was really worried about taking the virus to somebody vulnerable. So I had expected to sit outside, have my coat. It was blustery, I was prepared. But she said, no, don't worry, just come in, don't freeze. So she was. Yeah, she was really friendly. I'd say she's very shy, very nervous. And again, I put that down, really, to the fact that I'd read the book by then, that they'd had such a torrid time. Didn't really want to let anybody get close.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

When Moth got back from the shops, he didn't seem to have concerns about social distancing. So Ruth stayed and chatted.

[Narrator/Host]

It was like meeting a rock star, really. He had so much presence. Yeah, he just. He's a very tall guy. He's a handsome man. He's got piercing eyes, chalk of white hair, and he's warm and friendly and talkative.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Ruth and her partner Christian had read the Salt Path and. And they were conscious of Moth's condition, so they'd regularly check in to see if he needed a hand with anything. Moth and Rainer had already been living there 18 months, and they seemed to have things pretty much in hand. They ended up at Hay Farm because Bill Cole, the farm's owner, was so moved by the Salt Path that he reached out to Rayner on Twitter a few months after the book was published in the autumn of 2018. I've spent months chatting to Bill about what happened. I published an article about him in the observer newspaper, but ultimately he decided he didn't want to take part in this podcast. It didn't help that he and his family were hounded by the media. I've seen photos of three men parked outside Hay who told him they were from the Daily Mail and BBC Producers also showed up at the farm. He and his family found the whole thing pretty stressful. In any case, Bill sent me lots of emails and I took notes during the time we were chatting. So when you hear Bill in this podcast, they're his words, but not his voice.

[Bill Cole]

I rang her. And the first time we spoke, we spoke for nearly two hours. I said, look, Ray, I. Forgive me if this sounds really cheesy, but I think our paths are due to cross.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Bill told her how he'd also been screwed over in business and how straight after that his wife had been diagnosed with breast cancer. So he felt this great affinity with Rayner. Bill's an investment banker in the city, but his heart's in farming. And he saved and bought Hay, one of the oldest cider producing farms in England. But after his wife's diagnosis, they found it impossible to move there. It was just too far from a hospital. So however heartbreaking it was for him, he'd resolved to sell it. But then when Bill read the Salt Path and it occurred to him that the homeless couple, Moth and Rainer, might want to take over the running of the farm. At this point, they were living in a rented flat a short drive away in the coastal village of Polruen. When Rainer finally agreed to meet him, Bill startled them with a proposition. They could live at Hay and make cider while allowing Moth to be immersed in the beautiful healing surroundings of the farm. Perhaps the combination of physical exercise and nature would help with his condition.

[Bill Cole]

I said, I think the best thing to do is come and see the farm. And that is actually described a bit in the Wild Silence.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

In her sequel, the Wild Silence, Raina Wynne writes about meeting Bill for the first time, she calls him gestured animatedly.

[Narrator/Host]

Across the fields with his hand. A man whose hands appeared never to have seen dirt or caught the fleece of a youth thick with lanolin or laid a hedge. The Queen bought the place. Sam gestured towards some scrubby trees that followed the contours of the valley. Not just for the land itself, but for the orchard. It took 30 years of work in the city. 30 years of waiting. He pushed his hand through his hair and adjusted his designer sunglasses. So I read the Wild Silence, which came out very soon after I met them.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Did you like it?

[Narrator/Host]

I found it peculiar. I didn't find it uplifting or joyous. And I found the descriptions of Hay quite bleak as well. It wasn't the place that I knew, which is a very beautiful place, full of wildlife, deer, birdsong.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

In the book, Rainer describes Hay as an over farm, desolate place. It's a picture that former owners of the farm and neighbours, including Ruth, strongly disputed. But Ruth was also taken aback by the portrayal of Bill as this city slicker who's disconnected from nature.

[Narrator/Host]

It didn't seem like the person that I knew the Person I know is very kind, wears his heart on his sleeve and obviously really cared for them. It didn't seem like a kind portrayal of him or his wife and they'd done such a generous thing. So that did surprise me. I did say to Bill, how are you about that? And he, he kind of said, well, you know, that's what publishing is. Publishing will ask for certain things.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Ruth's right. Rayner's description of him doesn't seem fair. It's true he's made a lot of money in the city, but you wouldn't know it to look at him. He walks around Hay Farm in old cardigans full of holes and well worn slippers. At first, Bill loved having Rayner and Moth on his farm. Ruth was just a few minutes ride away on her horse. The trail she took often led her past the farm, so she'd stop and.

[Narrator/Host]

Say hi and I liked them, I liked him. She faded a little bit into the background, but she was welcoming and kind and shy. I would email her from time to time. I would ride my horse around and if they were out the garden, she would come over more often. It would be Tim, he'd come over, give the horse a polo, give him a pat, have a chat.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Did he seem unwell?

[Narrator/Host]

I mean, it's hard to say, isn't it? You can't really tell by looking, but he always seemed full of vitality and good humour.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

He certainly seemed up for the challenge of running Hay Farm, which used a traditional manual cider press.

[Narrator/Host]

I mean, it's a really grueling process if you get the chance to see it. It's an old fashioned press made of stones and you have to pull it with a metal pole. So it's hard work. And he was talking to myself and my partner about how he would be working in there until four in the morning making cider. I remember at the time my partner said to him, if you need any help, if you need anything physically done, ask us. And we were always, always offering.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Because you were concerned because of his illness that it might be impacting on his ability to press the cider?

[Narrator/Host]

Well, of course I know, I'd read the book. So I knew that he would collapse or he would. Movement would be difficult for him. So we both made sure that they knew that we were there. They had our phone numbers, our emails.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Did they ever call on you and say, we're in trouble, we're in difficulty, we need your help?

[Narrator/Host]

No, never.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Ruth did wonder if the strenuous work combined with the very rural setting at the farm might be having the same effect on Moth as the height did in the salt path. Walking along the coastal path for months, we were told, reversed the symptoms of his terminal neurological condition, corticobasal degeneration, or CBD for short. In Rainer's second book, the Wild Silence, she wrote about how Moth attended university to study for a degree in horticulture. But the sedentary lifestyle meant his symptoms returned. And this time they were even worse.

[Narrator/Host]

Moth was lying on the bed when.

[Maxine Faramond]

I returned to the chapel.

[Narrator/Host]

A strange thing at midday. What's going on? I'm so dizzy. Every time I look at the computer screen, it feels as if I'm travel sick.

[Maxine Faramond]

I just had to lie down.

[Narrator/Host]

You can't do that. You've got to get up and do some exercise. It'll help, I know it will. Don't you care?

[Maxine Faramond]

No.

[Narrator/Host]

This isn't happening.

[Advertiser/Commercial Voice]

Get up.

[Narrator/Host]

Don't let this happen. Just get up.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

So the couple decided to go on another long walk in Iceland this time, and it really helped. Perhaps making cider at hay was keeping Moth's symptoms at bay.

[Narrator/Host]

I think part of me probably thought that maybe the magic of the farm was working. I didn't question it too much because what sort of person would you be if you start questioning it? I just accepted that this was maybe how it was for him. Maybe I just saw him on good days. I didn't talk about it with them at all, obviously.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

But as far as Ruth could tell, Moth seemed to be in denial.

[Narrator/Host]

I was really struck that he liked my Land Rover Defender and said he wanted one. And I said to him at the time, it's really, really heavy. You have to hold it on the road.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

The steering is.

[Narrator/Host]

No, you have to hold on. You have to like literally hold on. And it hurts my back. You have to climb in. And I said to him, I really wouldn't advise it. It's not an easy, easy car to drive when you're fit and healthy. He said, I really want one of those. And they did get one.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Rainer had told Bill that after the success of the Salt Path, she'd signed a three book deal with Penguin, her publisher. So in the summer of 2021, rainer and moth went on yet another walk. This one would form the basis for her third book.

[Narrator/Host]

They went off all summer. In 2021, they went to Scotland because their son came down to mow the farm and look after the dock. And they went. I think they walked back from Scotland via Offa's Dyke. They did like, it's mad Mad long walk. We didn't see them for most of that summer.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

It made the south west coastal path look like a little stroll. 1,000 miles from the Cape of Wrath trail in Scotland and one of the UK's toughest hikes, all the way down home to Cornwall. Bill told me he'd wanted to meet up with them along the way and he contacted them suggesting several points. He could have joined them for the walk for a day or two, but they didn't seem keen so he left them alone. When they got back to Cornwall, they began discussing going into business with Bill.

[Bill Cole]

There were lots of wonderful joint plans and ideas for the farm. We had agreed to go into business as joint 5050 partners before the end of the 2022, early 2023 season. We had talked excitedly about Ray at Hay and their Rewilding Light project. In fact, we believed this was going to form the basis of her fourth book.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

While on the surface everything looked fine, underneath, tensions were building because despite what they were telling others, the couple hadn't made any cider since they took over the farm. Bill told me that there's an 800 year cider making tradition at Hay that he didn't want broken. So each autumn he'd go down to the farm himself and make a small amount of cider. He didn't want to pressure Moth because he was concerned about his health. But in October 2021, soon after the couple had returned from walking 1,000 miles from Scotland to Cornwall, Bill thought it might be a good opportunity to raise the subject. He keeps detailed diaries and at the time he made a note of the date, 21st October 2021, and how they were all sitting around at Hay when he tentatively broached the subject of cider making.

[Bill Cole]

I sat opposite Moth and he broke the news. Bill, the doctors have told me not to plan beyond Christmas. At the time it was an emotional moment and naturally I said, moth, please just look after yourself and please, please don't worry about the orchards or the cider making. We just hugged him and assured him that the farm and any related activities were of no importance compared to his well being. To be fair, this had been our position from day one. Moth's health and well being was always central to any decision.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Afterwards, Bill was heading home and he passed by Ruth's place and he said.

[Narrator/Host]

I've had this dreadful news because Moth.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Had told him that it was.

[Narrator/Host]

Doctors had said, don't plan beyond Christmas, which we obviously we knew he was really sick. I didn't know an awful lot about cbd. But I knew what it meant and I knew that the process would be gruelling and heartbreaking. And I knew what was coming. And I felt so sad for them after everything that they'd been through and had the fairy tale of the book success. And I was just glad they were somewhere beautiful.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

And Bill was really upset by them.

[Narrator/Host]

He was devastated.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Bill told me he'd been close to tears. He hugged Moth and told him not to give the farm a second thought. It had been an incredibly profound and moving scene, hearing Moth say that he didn't have long to live and that it stayed with him for a long time afterwards. Soon after that, Bill suggested to Rainer and Moth that he could bring people in for the harvest and to make the cider. But Rainer told him that Moth's pride was hurt by that and so Bill dropped it immediately. Things carried on into the spring, pretty much as before. Ruth doesn't notice any change in Moth. But then she doesn't know much about his condition. It's incredibly rare and she has no idea what a man dying of CBD looks like. So she keeps these thoughts to herself. And then finally, rainer's long awaited third book, Landlines, is published in the summer of 2022. Bill rushes out and grabs himself a copy and devours it in a day. And what he reads throws him completely next door to Hay Farm. Ruth is going through similar emotions.

[Narrator/Host]

Chapter one is January 2021. It's winter and she's in hay and it's bleak. She's freezing cold, she's struggling. The more I read, the worse I felt because it was very clear they weren't coping. He was deteriorating massively. He was stumbling into the orchards. He was. Was falling down in the orchard. There was one awful bit where he can't make it to the bathroom. And I think the quote is something like, we lay together in a pool of pee. And then I read on a bit and they go for a walk and they walk from Hay Farm up here and he struggles to make it up the hill and they pause at the top, which is practically outside my gate. Why didn't you come and ask? I'd have driven you home. I read it and I just. I started crying. I was absolutely distraught because these were my neighbours. I couldn't believe that this awful thing was going on and they hadn't phoned me for help. And I just. I was so distraught. My partner said, what is. What's wrong? And I told him and he was upset and he said, don't read anymore. He said, Just put it away for a minute. So I closed it.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

But almost as soon as she's put it aside, Bill messages her.

[Bill Cole]

I finished Landlines in the small hours and have been up since 4:50 thinking about it all. I'm so troubled by it, feeling awful, just in a trance about it all. Nothing makes sense anymore.

[Narrator/Host]

And he says, I think you should read the rest.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

So Ruth reopens the book. She reads about the walk that spans almost the entire length of the British Isles. And then she gets to the last few chapters when they're back home and they go for a checkup with the doctor.

[Narrator/Host]

So it's got to be winter 2021. And the doctor says, what are you hoping to see? And Moth says something like, I'd like to see it light up like a Christmas tree. Because in the previous brain scan, the brain is dark because it's dying, it's shutting down. The plaque is building up, which is, I believe, what happens with cbd. But in the second brain scan, the doctor says, well, there you go. And it's lit up like Christmas.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

And this is after their long walk.

[Narrator/Host]

After their long walk. So presumably the long walk has worked.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Its wonders and it's rejuvenated his brain.

[Narrator/Host]

It's rewired his brain. It's. It's done some kind of neurological reset. Something's happened and he's still with us. I was just really confused why they wouldn't have told people, why they wouldn't have told the good news to their close friends like Bill.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

The last Bill and Ruth had heard, Moth was dying. He might not even make it past Christmas. And yet here was Rainer Wynne telling the world about a brain scan that defies science. Ruth calls Bill back and they discuss what they've just read and realise that they both feel exactly the same utter confusion.

[Narrator/Host]

So he hasn't got it or he's better? And I couldn't understand if they'd had this amazing news, why they hadn't shared it when we were also worried and when obviously we knew or we'd been told that he might not make it past the previous Christmas. Why would you not share it? I knew that if my friends had been told her husband was in remission, they'd have phoned everybody. We'd have been partying, we'd have been overjoyed. And you celebrate with your friends. I'd have been so happy for them.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

When I spoke to him about all this, Bill told me that at first his reaction to the book was just horror, that perhaps the demands of the Farm had left Moth in the stone described at the start of the book, where he's lying in his own urine. Bill couldn't bear the idea that Moth might feel obliged to take on more than he can cope with. So he decided to take action. He brought in a young couple who could take over the cider making while living on the farm in a caravan. That way Moth and Rainer could continue to live on the farm and focus on Moth's health. Rayner gave Bill her tacit agreement to this. But when he arrives at Hay Farm with the young cider makers, Moth is furious. He comes out of the farmhouse shouting. Bill told me it was really terrifying. Moth looked like a different person, he said. His eyes were blank and he was in a rage. Bill fled. When he gathered his thoughts, he wrote.

[Bill Cole]

To Rainer, hi, Ray. Must admit that I left yesterday confused and a little upset, so just wondering if Moth is okay, as he was very un. Moth like. I know you aren't delighted that this couple are back, but I thought Moth's reception was definitely not in keeping and slightly bizarre.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Hope all ok. Rainer was busy and it took several days before she replied.

[Narrator/Host]

Hi, Bill. I'm so sorry you were upset. I'm really, really sorry you encountered the side of cbd. I try to keep away from everyone. It can last a day, a week or more. It takes its own shape, which I know how to deal with, but can come as a shock to others who can't understand the complete contrast to the Moth they know.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

But at the end of her new book, Bill had read that moth scan showed the disease had all but cleared from his brain. What was going on? So he replied, hi, Ray.

[Bill Cole]

I appreciate your message, but my confusion continues. I've now finished Landlines and although I had an inkling that the health update was positive and thought it was just truly incredible news, are you suggesting that the final few pages are too positive? I'm aware of the pressures publishers put on writers and read with caution, but I'm not sure what to conclude. Perhaps we just sit down sometime and chat openly without worrying about books and stuff.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Rainer never acknowledges this message and they never speak about any of this again. And now, the more Bill thinks about it, the more confused he is. That autumn day when Moth told him he couldn't plan beyond Christmas, that seemed to be right. At the same time as Rainer's book said they were getting a miraculous brain scan from the doctor, Bill messaged Ruth to ask if he was going crazy. No, she told him she'd started to go back over everything too and this gradual sickening feeling was creeping over her.

[Narrator/Host]

I'd read the books with my heart because it was such a good, happy story and because I knew them and because I cared. And I was thrilled. I was so thrilled she'd had a literary success. It was the real kind of good luck redemptive arc, wasn't it just. It was everything it should be. It was a fairy tale. And I've got to look at these again and I've got to take off the part of me that knows them, cares about them. I've got to read it with my literary critic head. And I went through each book and I started to make copious notes about what made sense and what didn't. The bailiffs that turned up five days after the court case. Well, my family of legal background, I know that courts don't work that way. And suddenly all these things that I just read and just accepted when I looked at with a more objective and maybe a cooler critical eye just didn't make sense.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Bill was going through the same process and he was particularly worried because he knew that cameras were about to descend on Hay Farm.

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

So here I am, back where I was two decades ago with the orchard's new God, guardians Ray and Moth. And the trees, which grow over 40 different varieties of apple, have definitely aged better than I have. The BBC series Rick Stein in Cornwall had arranged to come and film at Hay right then, just after the publication of Landlines in the autumn of 2022. Bill told me he was so confused and upset at this point that he couldn't bring himself to go to the farm while it was being recorded. Both you've got this terminal illness, is it?

[Narrator/Host]

Yes, it is.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

But I'm still going strong. Thanks for walking the coast path. There was that unbelievable moment when we realized that Moth's health was improving in.

[Narrator/Host]

Ways we'd been told just weren't possible.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Rick Stein's Cornwall program is unusual because it offers rare footage of Moth. I've asked for an interview from the couple countless times and they've been reluctant to engage with me. I feel like I've got to know the public Reiner a bit because she's done hundreds of interviews, but Moth hardly ever appears in public. That said, watching the Rick Stein footage, they both seem at ease. In one scene, Moth squats down picking apples from under the trees. In another, he shows Rick how the old fashioned cider press works. It looks like hard work. Turning the lever takes a lot of strength. Raina doesn't look like she's up for the job, but Moth seems to be enjoying it. A screw thread in the attic is turned by hand to lower the press, piling 80 tons of pressure onto the straw cheese below.

[Narrator/Host]

And if you can just draw your.

[Bill Cole]

Attention to the hole here.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah, the presses of the past would.

[Bill Cole]

Take the stave end of this stuff.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

And just rub it in the old lime plaster of the wall just to give it A bit of a coating.

[Narrator/Host]

Very much like you would chalk the.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

End of a snooker cube. Amazing.

[Narrator/Host]

Then it's straight into the center sprocket.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

And it's just a way of controlling. Yeah. Fine tuning.

[Narrator/Host]

Yes.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Yeah. Except it's exactly the kind of work Bill says the couple hadn't been doing all the time they were staying there. And the cider Rick Stein drank on the tv.

[Bill Cole]

Yeah, that was made by the young couple who Ray and Moth strenuously tried to keep away from the farm.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

And yet there they are on national television pretending they've been running a cider making business. Then just two weeks later, Bill gets a really surprising email out the blue. Rainer and Moth are handing in their notice.

[Narrator/Host]

Dear Bill, Moth's health must be our main focus. So it is with great sadness we are giving notice of the ending of our tenancy agreement. I am aware that our arrangement runs for another 12 months, but due to Moth's health considerations, we will be leaving at the earliest opportunity. It might seem. Moth driving the Land Rover the day they left. I saw them driving away with the car packed because I was on my horse going somewhere else, I think. But I never saw them again.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Bill had driven to Hay one day hoping to say goodbye, but he found the house empty. They'd left the keys under the mat, you know, I said. Bill was reluctant to speak on this podcast. Well, if I'm honest, I don't think it was just the media attention that put him off. I think it might also have been something to do with the fact that Bill had become so close to Rainer and Moth. Just like millions of readers around the world, he'd opened his heart to them. Unlike those readers, he'd also opened his life to them. He felt profoundly hurt, but also unnerved because he'd let them in for almost five years and now he wasn't even sure he knew who they were. A year passes and one day Bill's phone rings. On the other end is a lady from North Wales, Maxine, who's been receiving all those letters in Rainer and Moth's old house near Porthelie. The two exchange stories and when Bill tells her that the couple suddenly upped and left, the first thing she asks is, how much do they owe you? Bill says the utilities were left in a bit of a mess and lost revenue on the farm cost him tens of thousands of pounds. But really it's the emotional cost that's upset him the most. After they left, Bill watched as Rainer Wynne continued to do the media rounds. He watched as Moth entered The London Marathon. On his just giving page, the couple wrote how he lives with corticobasal degeneration. A film version of the Salt Path was commissioned, with Jason Isaacs and Gillian Anderson starring as Moth and Rainer Wynne. Their fame showed no sign of waning, but it's almost always Rainer that's out there, speaking for both of them. Moth is hardly ever seen a man who by most medical accounts should have been dead six to eight years ago. Rainer and Moth have spent years, three books and a film telling the same story that he nearly dies and then hikes his way back to health.

[Narrator/Host]

There's only so many walks you can go on, there's only so many miracle cures before CBD takes hold. 18 years to have it is a long time. Maybe Tim has had enough. He can't enjoy the spoils of their fortunes now. He can't enjoy what they've earned. If he has to keep hiding away, he can't be interviewed. So he'd become almost like a prisoner of this successful book because people will be looking, going, oh, that's him, we recognize him, but he looks alright. So they're a bit trapped, aren't they?

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Coming up in episode four. I believed it. I wanted to believe it. That maybe, just maybe, I need to sort up my game and fight it. Do medical miracles happen?

[Bill Cole]

No. It is dangerous with a condition which is as severe as this to promote an idea that strenuous exercise could reversal cure it.

[Narrator/Host]

Cruel, you know, give them false hope. Give them false hope.

[Bill Cole]

It's cruel.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Raina Win responded to the Observer's investigation with the following statement. The Salt Path lays bare the physical and spiritual journey. Moth and I shared an experience that transformed us completely and altered the course of our lives. This is the true story of our journey. On her website, Raina goes on to say Moth was diagnosed with cbd. This is a fact. The suggestion that Moth has made up his illness is utterly vile, unfair and false. I have never sought to offer medical advice in my books or suggest that walking might be some sort of miracle cure. For cbs, I'm simply charting Moth's own personal journey and battle with his illness and what has helped him. My books have become a record of his health through the movement issues to the times on our very long walks when those symptoms have improved. The effect of the suggestion that Moth has made up this condition has been absolutely traumatizing for him. Suggestions made by people who do not know him, have never met him and have never seen his medical records. Thanks for listening to the the real Salt Path. It was reported by me, Chloe Hajimotheou. The series producer was Matt Russell. Music supervision and sound design was by Carla Patella. The editor was Jasper Corbett.

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

You called that a knock knock joke?

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[Bill Cole]

Okay.

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

So the knock knock was just you knocking?

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Hey, it's Raj and Noah.

[Narrator/Host]

And we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

[Narrator/Host]

But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with. Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

We'Ll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.

[Narrator/Host]

Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

And for the first time ever, we're going to have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be right here to help you to them better.

[Narrator/Host]

Love y'.

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Thank you for listening to the Walkers. We hope you're enjoying the podcast so far. You can listen to all seven episodes today by subscribing to the Observer. By subscribing, not only do you get all our podcasts before anyone else, you also get access to our premium food and puzzles newsletter, exclusive offers from our partner Mubi, free tickets to our events, and much, much more. Subscribe [e-mail] subscribe or via the link in the show notes. The observer.

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[Narrator/Host]

Noah, and we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.

[Narrator/Host]

But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics we could all use a little helping hit with. Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.

[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

We'Ll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right, so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.

[Narrator/Host]

Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever.

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[Chloe Hajimotheou (Investigator/Reporter)]

And for the first time ever, we're gonna have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here to help you do them better.

[Narrator/Host]

Love y' all.