Click Bait | Deep Water Ep5

Summary

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Deep Water | Tortoise Investigates

Episode 5: Click Bait

Date: December 9, 2025
Host: Lydia Gard, The Observer

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Episode Overview

This episode of Deep Water delves into the explosive impact of a viral freediving video that exposes both the physical risks and cultural fault lines of the sport. Host Lydia Gard investigates the fallout as the freediving community grapples with the glorification of dangerous stunts, heated social media debate, and the unresolved spectre of doping. The episode explores who gets to define the culture, standards, and ethics of freediving—and what happens when the race for depth collides with the hunger for online attention.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Viral Video: A Shock to the Community

• [02:23] Sam Zenofou (Greek pool and depth diver) recounts being disturbed by a viral Instagram reel of freediver Petar Klover surfacing with a lung injury:

  “I saw Petar coming up from a deep dive. There's a lot of frothing, bloody frothing, coming out of his mouth. He is, like, in a very bad state after the deep dive. He obviously hurt himself diving.” — Sam Zenofou [03:17]

• The video, posted by Petar and coach Witomir Maricic, shows a dramatic incident involving a “deep blackout” and “lung squeeze”—serious dangers in freediving.
• The clip is edited for maximum impact, set to dramatic music, and framed with hashtags like #pushinglimits and #lifeontheedge.

  “It was a glorification of pushing to get better. You have to almost kill yourself.” — Sam Zenofou [05:32]

Debate Erupts: Glorification vs. Cautionary Tales

• The reel attracts over 7 million views, turns viral in the freediving world, and ignites passionate debate over whether risks are being promoted—or irresponsibly glamorized.
• Sam expresses a desire for honesty about risk, but condemns the way the video frames suffering as heroism rather than a caution:

  “If that video had a different narrative, I would have used it to show everybody and say, look, fair play. … But that wasn’t the case.” — Sam Zenofou [05:32]

• The host echoes discomfort at the tone, noting:

  “It’s a brazen, unashamed portrayal of serious injuries, with [Maricic] as coach and safety diver. … In the words of one person, it’s like a pyromaniac addicted to the destruction of what others have built.” — Lydia Gard [08:21]

Social Media’s Impact on Freediving Culture

• Social media has created “echo chambers” that reward spectacle over safety, allowing risky behaviors to gain rapid traction and influence.

  “Let’s face it, with social media anything bad will attract possibly a lot more followers than anything good. … Why shouldn’t it happen at freediving?” — Sam Zenofou [11:58]

• The viral video and follow-up posts (including images of other sports injuries) reflect a broader trend: “Playing up to the line” and building an online brand by flirting with danger.

Safety vs. Spectacle: Diverging Philosophies

• Lydia explores whether the intent of such videos is educational—to teach about the real dangers—or simply sensationalist clickbait.
• A community divide is mapped:
  • Supporters say it’s about “pushing limits” and transparency about the risks.
  • Critics argue it’s dangerous hero-worship that sets a harmful example, especially for young or inexperienced divers.

  “Anyone can dive like that, with complete disregard of safety of others and themselves.” — Sam Zenofou [11:05]

• The episode draws poignant parallels to viral risky behaviors in other sports, reminding listeners of tragic real-world consequences ([12:17]).

Medical Insight: The Realities of Lung Injuries

• [16:36] Dr. Fernando “Bezo” Silva (emergency doctor and freediver) responds to the video with dismay:

  “I started watching the video and I saw the blood and I turned it off. I was a bit outraged, you know.” — Bezo [16:36]

• Bezo, despite friendship with Vitamir, cannot defend the normalisation of lung squeezes:

  “Once you start to have blood, blood is inflammatory, blood is going to cause fibrotic tissue. … Squeezing should never be a part of considered normal progression in freediving. I don’t agree with that.” — Bezo [18:37]

• Bezo describes repeated incidents—even at top competitions—highlighting the frequency and severity of blackouts and squeezes at the elite level:

  “On the first day, there were eight blackouts and I think five squeezes, three were pretty bad squeezes.” — Bezo [20:56]

The Doping Divide: Science, Safety, and Stalemate

• [23:10] Nenad Dikic (ADA anti-doping officer) describes ongoing research into benzodiazepine (“benzo”) use in competition—both for safety and fairness.

  “Nobody's protecting athletes. Who is protecting athletes? … The main role is to take care about athletes. Nobody’s taking care about them.” — Nenad Dikic [23:53]

• Despite evidence of ongoing rumors and first-hand accounts, Nenad downplays the prevalence or impact of doping in freediving.
• He challenges the anecdotal evidence presented by the host:

  “I'm listening [to] that stories for last, I don't know, 25 years… there is no possibility to prove that allegation and something that is coming again from social networks.” — Nenad Dikic [27:44]

• Lydia counters, stressing the pattern emerging from multiple, corroborated testimonies—emphasising the journalist’s role in surfacing uncomfortable truths.

Science Lags Behind: Evidence Gaps and Ethical Barriers

• Both medical and anti-doping experts highlight the core issue: there is little rigorous scientific research about the long-term risks of lung squeezes and the use of medications like benzodiazepines in freediving, often because such studies would pose ethical and logistical challenges.

  “How even would we do research with the dangers of benzodiazepines… [that] are gonna throw people to 120 meters on benzos?” — Bezo [22:21]

• ADA’s testing is ongoing and anonymous, meaning patterns may be harder to track and definitive conclusions are elusive.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [03:17] “I saw Petar coming up … there’s a lot of frothing, bloody frothing, coming out of his mouth. He is, like, in a very bad state after the deep dive.” — Sam Zenofou
• [05:32] “It was a glorification of pushing to get better. You have to almost kill yourself.” — Sam Zenofou
• [11:05] “Anyone can dive like that, with complete disregard of safety of others and themselves.” — Sam Zenofou
• [18:37] “Once you start to have blood, blood is inflammatory, blood is going to cause fibrotic tissue. … Squeezing should never be a part of considered normal progression in freediving.” — Bezo
• [23:53] “Nobody’s protecting athletes. Who is protecting athletes? … The main role is to take care about athletes. Nobody’s taking care about them.” — Nenad Dikic
• [27:44] “I’m listening [to] that stories for last, I don’t know, 25 years … there is no possibility to prove that allegation and something that is coming again from social networks.” — Nenad Dikic

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Important Timestamps

• 02:23-06:16 — Sam Zenofou’s reaction to the viral clip and her critique of its glorification of suffering
• 06:16-08:53 — The spread of the reel, community response, and the lingering impact of previous scandals
• 11:05-12:37 — The broader dangers of risky content and its effect on young athletes and social perceptions
• 16:36-20:56 — Dr. Bezo Silva’s expert medical commentary on lung squeezes and competition dangers
• 23:10-29:09 — Interview with Nenad Dikic, revealing the complicated, politicized, and sometimes contradictory state of anti-doping efforts in freediving
• 31:58 — Preview of coming confrontations with the core figures at the center of the ongoing controversy

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Conclusion & Next Steps

The episode leaves listeners poised for the series climax, as the freediving world stands at a crossroads between integrity, safety, and spectacle. The key players teased—Witomir, Petar, and Sander—may hold the final answers to whether freediving can reconcile its daredevil image with a commitment to athlete wellbeing and fairness.

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For listeners new and returning, this episode offers a powerful window into how danger, ambition, and controversy intersect in a sport—and the vital role of storytelling in challenging its myths.

Transcript

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[C]

The Observer.

I remember I was just sitting on my sofa just watching morning tv. I always watch a little bit before I start work and go on my Instagram and I saw the clip and to be honest with you, it kind of turned my stomach a little bit.

[B]

On the 19th of September, Sam Zenofou is sitting at home getting ready for work. She's a Greek pool and depth diver. Living in the uk.

I'm months into my investigation. The Seamass World Championships have just drawn to a close in Greece, and in the aftermath of the competition, many free divers continue to post beautiful underwater shots, reels of their competition dives. They're smiling and crying at the surface as they receive a white card from the judges to indicate a successful dive. And as Sam's scrolling through these reels, an image pops up that stops her dead.

[C]

I saw PETA coming up from a deep dive. There's a lot of frothing, bloody frothing, coming out of his mouth. He is, like, in a very bad state after the deep dive. He obviously hurt himself diving.

[B]

It's an extremely hard thing to watch. The video is a compilation of clips of PETA Clover posted in collaboration with Witomir Maricic on Instagram and Facebook. Petar surfaces after having what looks like a deep blackout, his eyes rolling back in his head. He's being held by Vitamir, who's trying to administer oxygen. But PETA is vomiting bright red, foaming blood. His body is rigid, his eyes are wide open and vacant. The blood keeps coming. The underscore music is dramatic, theatrical and filmic. When he eventually comes around, he's moaning and coughing and crying out in pain. He's had a deep blackout and a lung squeeze.

[C]

I know it happens sometimes, but the glorification of it is what struck me the most. I think they just wanted to attract a lot of attention, you know, and I'm saying they because I consider a small group of free divers that they dive very dangerously and they promote it.

[B]

The reason it upsets Sam is that it doesn't seem to be a cautionary tale. The overlaid text that runs alongside the video says, accidents happen. And then there's a list of all the serious things that can go wrong at depth. Blackout, CO2 intoxication, decompression, illness, pulmonary barrow trauma system, acidosis, nitrogen narcosis. And it reads, if you're lucky, all of it at once. The message seems to be, this is what being a professional athlete looks like. And the trick is to recognise it and know what to do. The video ends with education, experience, practice, stay safe.

[C]

Sometimes in freediving, we want to look at pretty things. We want to look at pretty girls in bikinis diving and, you know, people coming up from the dive and having a kind of, you know, enlightenment. No, that is not the case. There is a struggle and there are mistakes. So if that video had a different narrative, I would have used it to show everybody and say, look, fair play. It happened to them. They've admitted their wrongs. It happens in diving and we should all avoid it. But that wasn't the case. Was was a glorification of pushing to get better. You have to almost kill yourself.

[B]

Among the 26 hashtags are pushinglimits, lifeontheedge, and shockingtruth. And as I'm writing this, it has had more than 7 million views, 36,000 likes and 760 comments. That's viral by free diving standards. The following day they post again, this time a series of images. A runner vomiting on his hands and knees. An American football player whose shinbone is snapped at a hideous angle. A race car driver with serious burn scarring across his face. The reel spreads like wildfire through the community. Underneath the video, the comments flood in and the debate is electric. It feels like the most consequential moment in the sport since the Vertical Blue scandal two years ago. And it's the same two people at the centre of it. Freediving's new heroes I'm Lydia Gard. I'm from Tortoise Investigates and the Observer. This is Deep Water Episode five, Clickbait.

I was in the studio when the reel popped up on my feed. I watched it three times and then set my phone aside to record. I don't mind the sight of blood, but it was harrowing to watch and I kept replaying it in my mind. I was intrigued. I wanted to know what their motivation could be for sharing that the accident in the video was from two years ago. It wasn't a news story. It wasn't a video. It was a compilation of clips. Someone had spent time editing that, and it featured two people who've been at the centre of a doping scandal. They've spent the last two years collecting Freediving medals across pool and depth competitions, gaining followers and influence as well as momentum. Vitamir has planned and orchestrated a number of Guinness World Record underwater stunts. Lately he announced that he'd been appointed as Croatian national team coach. He's ADA Croatia president. He's sponsored by one of the biggest brands in freediving and an ambassador for another. And when they post this, he's about to be a judge at the ADA World Championships in Limassol in October 2025. And this video seems to be a brazen, unashamed portrayal of serious injuries, with him as the coach and the safety diver. It's confusing. In the words of one person who commented, it's like a pyromaniac addicted to watching the destruction of what others have built.

[C]

For years.

Who would you want your role model to be in the end of the day, if your children were to be introduced to Freediving? The post from PETA would not be someone that I would want my children to follow.

[B]

Safety and doping are separate but not unrelated issues. They follow the same fault line. The reality is that this group are promoting a different approach, and I want to understand that approach. I'm weeks into setting up an interview with Vitamir and I want to ask him, among other things, if I'm missing something. Is there a read of this that's intended to share safety knowledge, to help others avoid similar situations? But he's proving hard to pin down. He's travelling and in demand. So in the meantime, I reach out to some experienced safety divers and in the course of my reporting, I ask them about the video. One tells me that Vetimir's in water rescue in the reel is good practice, that he's obviously knowledgeable about safety protocols. But when I ask what the motivation could be for sharing it, he shrugs, shakes his head, looks away.

And it leaves me wondering, is it just flexing, romanticizing this attitude Travis talked about in episode four of Playing up to the Line, or is it just clickbait? Because, let's face it, if this was intended to get attention, it worked. As the reel starts to gain traction, the comments section blows up. Their supporters say things like, stop blaming athletes for their walk on the edge and everyone is welcome here. Petar is pushing limits. He's willing to share the dark side of freediving. By all means, go on pretending that it doesn't exist. That's fine. There's a place for you there. There's also a place here for Petar Clover. While their critics say the Guinness World Records is where your stunts belong, there you can take all the pills and O2 that you want to feed the misinformation machine, but please stop calling it Freediving.

[C]

There's a group of people that they dive, searching for those limits on a constant basis. You know, anybody can grind their teeth and blackout. Anyone can grind their teeth and hurt themselves and. And rely on others to help them bring them back to consciousness. You know, anyone can do that. Anyone can dive like that, with complete disregard of safety of others and themselves.

[B]

And as a mother of teenage boys myself, I know firsthand that who our heroes are matters. It's like Boris told me in episode four, when an athlete learns to attract attention, that translates as positions of power influence sponsorship income, they build a brand and profit from it.

[C]

Let's face it, with social media Anything bad will attract possibly a lot more followers than anything good. There is that danger. I mean, it's happening already. It's happening on every other aspect of social media. Why shouldn't it happen at free diving?

[B]

It's not unlike the viral game Run it Straight, a version of rugby where two players run full speed at one another, sometimes ending with one of them blacking out from concussion. What started as a backyard game in New Zealand has recently found a new life online and the net result is a teenage boy recently died after playing it.

[C]

So what's happened is they've tapped into that and they've increased their followers, they've increased the people that are coaching because they're always going to be naivety in the sport, it's going to be ego in the sport. All of those negative things are still there. But what I am asking is that the people that they are top athletes is to sit back and think a little bit what they're promoting. I mean, I am a pusher. I'm not gonna lie about that. You know, and people in my club, we say, yeah, okay, who are you to talk? But there is pushing and then there is aggression. Look, I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you. Yes, I've had a blackout in the pool world championship myself and it was an accident. You know, I pushed my limit. And since then I have learned that that is not a good thing. It's not something that you search for.

[B]

Vitamir's approach has supporters like Thalia Davydoff, one of his most successful students. She posted a video of a blackout in September. Second captioned, my first nappy nap of the season. It is much easier to watch. In it, she surfaces, blacks out and comes around again laughing. There's no dramatic music, no blood. The caption beneath the video is an explanation of what happened and why. So it's informative, if casual.

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I started watching the video and I saw the blood and I turned it off. I was a bit outraged, you know.

[B]

This is Fernando Bizo Silva, or Bezo. He's a free diver and an emergency doctor specialising in lung injuries. Witimir says in his post, our goal has always been the highest possible level of safety, improving and learning. This has driven significant research, including the first six year longitudinal study on lung squeeze effects soon published.

So I ask in the Freediving Science Facebook group who best understands the impact of repeated lung injury? And several people said Bezo. I didn't realise before our call, but Bezo tells me that he and Vitamir are good friends. What do you think the message of the video was? What was the point being made?

[A]

I don't know. I do not understand it.

I'm puzzled. It's not something I even relate to in any emotional or intellectual level.

I don't get it.

[B]

As a friend, you haven't contacted him and had a conversation about it.

[A]

I have not.

Maybe I should.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. I think people do weird stuff in their lives and.

I don't know what motivates them. I'm always.

Thinking that people do things because they think is right. I always try to see.

Why they think is right.

[B]

I want to get a different read on it, afford them the benefit of the doubt. Vitamist says that safety is his highest priority. Maybe the blood and the blackouts just.

[A]

Look bad, but once you start to have blood, blood is inflammatory, blood is going to cause fibrotic tissue.

If you have blood, you're going to have damage. And that is the part that I can't agree. I don't think.

Squeezing should ever be a part of considered normal progression in freediving. I don't agree with that.

[B]

An article about freediving barotrauma injuries like squeezes, was published in October 23 by the Divers Alert Network and the University of San Diego. In it, Witimir writes, from our experience, the next day is usually good to go, but for extra safety and comfort, a day or so off is good, especially before a big performance. He goes on to say there is not much correlation for a risk of recurrence unless the diver is mentally weak or overly emotional. He says, the more we squeeze, the more we improve and the deeper we can go without squeezing.

[A]

If Vitomir is hearing this, we're good friends. And he says that publicly and loudly. That's why I feel comfortable actually saying his name. But he says, dude, free diving squeezing is part of.

Depth progression. It's part of training.

[B]

Well, I want to talk about Vertical Blue or vb, our elite competition, the one where the bag search happened. How common is it in competition diving for people to squeeze when you're at that elite level? Let's say, like you've done medical stuff for vb, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So let's say let's take VB as an example, because these people are really pushing themselves and this is our elite community. How common is it?

[A]

I would say in a competition, especially a competition like vb, that there's.

People really push to the limit is unfortunately more common than we would think.

My first day on vb, I was.

Not there as a staff physician. I was volunteering. I was just collecting research data.

But on the first day, there were eight blackouts and I think five squeezes, three were pretty bad squeezes.

[B]

That's an important point. This isn't A shiny new problem. Nor can it be attributed to any particular people. One diver I met in Greece was very well versed on the topic. He mirrored what Boris said, that it all changed when the sport became more professional, when organisers started paying people to be safety divers, the in water diver responsible for a competing athlete, that the community split into workhorses and racehorses, so to speak. And then the advent of social media became an echo chamber instead of a place to gather and discuss.

After Greece, this safety diver sent me an email which said, this is the culture Vitamir walked into and I think he exploited it. I think 10 years ago the vast majority of free divers would have told you squeezes are dangerous and you should take them seriously. Part of the problem, just like with the impact of benzos on deep diving, is that there's a distinct lack of research into the long term consequences of lung squeeze. So while what Bezo says makes sense, it's untested, unproven, lacking evidence. And that leaves a vacuum in which people can push until they find their own limit.

[A]

We need more research, but also how even would we do research with the dangers of benzodiazepines at that are gonna throw people to 120 meters on benzos?

[B]

Ethically, it's hard, right? How do you get the information?

[A]

Yeah, that's the thing of, of research in freediving. In addition to lack of money, there's a lot of stuff that is not easy to research and we simply have to extrapolate knowledge from similar areas in medicine that already have an answer.

[B]

This isn't the first time I've heard this. It's a common complaint. We have a lack of medical evidence, a lack of research in pre diving.

But someone is trying to change that.

[D]

I'm from Belgrade, Serbia. I'm professor of sports medicine and I'm in anti doping from 2003.

[B]

Nenad Dikic is the anti doping officer who is appointed by ADA in the wake of the vertical blue doping scandal. And in June this year, ADA announced a study to assess whether benzodiazepines are present in freediving competitions and whether their use may pose risks to safety or fairness. Apparently, ADA have done more than 120 doping controls. Urine samples have been taken anonymously with athlete consent to detect benzos and other similar substances. The aim is not to punish or stigmatise, but to protect the athletes.

[D]

Nobody's protecting athletes. Who is protecting athletes? Tell me. Because you are journalists, you need to be take care about them, not to take care about.

Science. Benzodiazepines organization system, etc, etc. I think the main role is to take care about athletes. Nobody's taking care about them.

[B]

Nenad tells me about a paper that he published in July about the Vertical Blue case. It's a critique of CMAs and their code of ethics and the case is argued in defence of the athletes. It focuses on the legal controversy of the way the Vertical Blue bag search happened and was recorded and cites potential violations of the athletes human rights. In short, Nenad argues that William Troubridge broke the rules. Seamas were not within their rights to punish the athletes and the victims are Vitamir and Petar.

By the time I speak to Nenad, I've already read his paper and listen to a number of his online seminars on the topic of doping and the scandal. And when I first email him to request an interview, his reaction strikes me as odd. He says, I'm not sure that doping has such an important role in freediving as it appears on the Internet and therefore I'm not convinced it should take priority. When writing about freediving, he wants to focus on other areas which are legitimate, but he is, after all, the anti doping officer. It seems odd to say that this isn't the thing to be talking about. And yet beheading a what? A backed study. I ask whether it would be better to ban benzos from a safety perspective, even if there's no evidence to say they constitute doping.

[D]

But if you like, is it safe? Of course it's not safe. I mean, because benzodiazepines are. They are depressing central nervous system, they are slowing reaction time, they are impairing judgments.

[B]

I personally only worry about the use of any medication at all that might have a dangerous side effect at depth, because there is a very small margin for error when you dive deep.

[D]

If you are concerned about that, I mean, I need really to ask you why. I mean, is it your profession, why you are concerned about that? I mean, I'm medical, as I told you, I'm medical professional. I am. That is my sport. That is something where I'm present on every day. So do you think that I'm not concerned or do you think that I'm crazy and I would allow somebody to use any drugs who could potentially be dangerous for him and because of that drug could harm his health or maybe even that?

[B]

No. If benzodiazepines have a potential negative side effect in the brain and in the body and in our response time and everything else at depth, then it strikes me that that is likely to be more dangerous than Diving without.

[D]

How do you know that? How do you know that? How do you know that?

[B]

I push back, but the conversation gets harder to navigate, more frustrating.

[D]

So somehow I don't see that there is an issue of doping in freediving. I see that there is issue of doping in freediving, but on social networks.

[B]

Or in podcasts, he doesn't mention William Troubridge by name, but it's clear he believes the allegations stem from social media and that there's no basis for them. So I tell him about my investigation, what people have told me about the use of benzodiazepines. Some people will have them medically prescribed. Others might watch the success of those people and want to experiment with the same drugs even though they don't have the underlying medical condition.

[D]

What do you mean? Do you know any, any case of that? Do you know anything? Do you know even one example?

[B]

Yeah, I have been told by a couple of divers that they've been offered them, encouraged to take them in certain communities.

[D]

Yeah, come on. That is a, that is a joke. I'm, I'm, as I said, one of my topic is ethics and, and prevalence and I, I am listening that stories for last, I don't know, 25 years and the, the I, I, I, I, I, I, I've got information from some guy and that guy told me that there is a friend who is using that. I mean that is not serious. So there is no how to say possibility to prove that allegation and something that is coming again from social networks.

[B]

It makes me think about what Travis said, that the system doesn't want to hear it. And yet history dictates that whistleblowers are crucial in the fight against doping. It would stand to reason that the anti doping officer would want athletes to feel safe coming forward speaking to him in confidence. But if enough, I mean this is how we work as journalists. We have to speak to witnesses and then have the witnesses stories corroborated by other people. And if enough people are telling me the same story about the same community, then it starts to feel like it has more import. It's not one person saying that guy said such and such. We're building a picture. I've been interviewing people for months and months.

[D]

I disagree. As I told you in first email, I don't believe that doping is problem in freediving because there is no proof.

[B]

We do agree on one thing, that evidence is the way forward. It just feels like we're looking at the problem from opposite sides of a spectrum of truth, symptomatic of the split in the community, Will Trubridge suggested that you defended the narrative of vitamin Petar after vertical blue.

[D]

What do you say to that Vitamin Petter? I'm not defending them. I mean I will the same do for you. If you have been there and you are just the athlete who are coming to remote island to do go on competition and somebody how to say treated you like they he treated them. I mean, I will do the same.

[B]

Nenad tells me the results of the benzo research project will likely come out in early 2026. If there's evidence that they're being widely used or abused, then they'll create a scientific experiment to find out what risk they pose at depth. I ask ethically, how can you prove whether benzos are dangerous for depth? But he prevaricates, he says evidence, and I reiterate. Yes. My question is when they have the evidence and if that evidence shows that benzos are being used to dive, then how can we test to see if it's dangerous? How do you prove whether it's dangerous or not? You can prove with your samples that.

[C]

You'Re taking how many people are research.

[D]

You could not cover with one research everything. And I don't have even intention to do that. I. I just imagine that we prove that there is not so many divers who are doing that. Why, for God's sakes, We will continue to work on that. And I mean it is somehow how to say something which is pushed by social network, by believing. But as I said, we as a scientist, we don't believe in something. We are challenging something, research something. And since you are from England, I'm just asking you a question. I mean, is it fair to that one athlete is punished because of something which is not really, how to say, enhancing substance, which is not on the list, etc. Etc. Who is safeguarding that? How to. How to say athlete? That is the question.

[B]

I ask. If only 1% of that sample are taking benzos, but they still may be the same 1% on the podiums, then what? And he says they'll take that into consideration. Except how can they if the testing's anonymous? It feels like a smokescreen. And while the speculation continues, there is one group left to speak to. It feels more pressing than ever to hear from Witomir, Petar and Sander, because the questions that remain swirling are questions that only they can answer. Coming up in the final episode.

[D]

There's constantly attempts to harm us.

[A]

And you've seen from my communication with you that I'm maybe even still concerned.

[D]

That this podcast is just an attempt to do the same.

[B]

Thank you for listening to Deep Water. It's reported by me, Lydia Gard. The producer is Garry Marshall. Music supervision by Carla Patella Sound design by Rowan Bishop Podcast artwork by Lola Williams Fact checking by Poppy Ballard Script editing by Kerry Thomas. The Executive Producer is Basha Cummings.

[A]

Hello, it's Gary here. I'm the producer of Deep Water. Before I tell you a bit more about how you can listen to the rest of the series, we have a house notice you might have seen some changes to our feeds, and that's because we're now bringing our Tortoise Investigate series to you from our new home, the Observer. It's the world's oldest Sunday newspaper where you can listen to and read incredible journalism every day, seven days a week. So if you're enjoying this podcast, you can listen to all six episodes today by subscribing to the observer and listening on the brand new observer app. By becoming an observer subscriber, you can also get early access to all our investigations, our premium food and puzzle newsletters, and much, much more. If you'd like to find out more, you can visit observer.co.uk.

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