Horrible human being | Elon's Spies Ep2

Summary

Elon's Spies Ep2: "Horrible Human Being" – Detailed Summary

Released on October 15, 2024 | Host: Alexey Mostros | Series: Elon Spies | Podcast: Tortoise Investigates by Tortoise Media

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1. Introduction

In the second episode of the Elon's Spies series, titled "Horrible Human Being", host Alexey Mostros delves deeper into the shadowy world surrounding Elon Musk's use of private investigators and surveillance to control information and silence critics. This episode uncovers the intricate web of investigations, legal maneuvers, and personal fallout that ensues when individuals within Musk's sphere challenge his authority.

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2. The Vernon Unsworth Dossier and Initial Investigations

The episode opens with Alexey Mostros recounting the emergence of a controversial dossier about Vernon Unsworth, compiled by a private investigator. Unsworth, a British caver, became a target after a dispute with Musk, leading to unfounded and defamatory claims.

• Quote (02:59): "Eventually he sends me this kind of long screed about Vernon Unsworth, claiming that he was a, quote, child rapist who had taken a 12-year-old bride." – Alexey Mostros

Mostros highlights the dubious nature of the dossier, noting Unsworth’s denial and the lack of evidence supporting such severe allegations. This incident sets the stage for unveiling the lengths Musk's associates will go to tarnish reputations.

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3. The Role of Gavin de Becker and Associates in Musk’s Security Operations

A significant portion of the episode explores the partnership between Elon Musk and the renowned security firm Gavin de Becker and Associates. Mostros reveals internal documents detailing extensive services provided to Musk, ranging from personal protection to investigative operations against perceived threats.

• Quote (11:52): "They [Gavin de Becker employees] were tasked with protecting Musk, but also picking up his dry cleaning, buying expensive sunglasses for him from Amazon..." – Alexey Mostros

These documents illustrate how Musk employs a security team reminiscent of a "mini secret service," with operatives sourced from elite backgrounds such as the CIA, US Marines, and FBI. The firm's involvement raises questions about the legality and ethics of their investigative techniques, including pretexting and sting operations.

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4. The Martin Tripp Saga: From Whistleblower to Legal Battleground

Central to this episode is the story of Martin Tripp, a former Tesla line worker who became a whistleblower after exposing defective manufacturing practices at the Gigafactory in Nevada. Tripp's revelations about raw material waste and the reworking of defective parts prompted aggressive retaliation from Tesla.

• Quote (07:12): "Musk now needs to reveal exactly what surveillance he used on me, which firms, and what methods." – Martin Tripp

Tripp’s correspondence with journalist Lynette Lopez leads to the publication of a critical report on Tesla’s practices. In response, Tesla initiates a multi-faceted campaign against him, including a substantial lawsuit for $167 million and orchestrated threats of violence against him.

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5. Tesla’s Surveillance and Legal Tactics Against Martin Tripp

Tesla’s response to Tripp’s whistleblowing involves deploying private investigators to monitor and harass him relentlessly. The security team, led by Sean Guthrow, employs intrusive surveillance methods, allegedly gaining unauthorized access to Tripp's personal communications.

• Quote (31:15): "I was to call Jeff with the update of anything of that nature." – Carl Hansen, Tesla’s internal investigator

Despite Tripp being unarmed and his threats unfounded, Tesla's security operatives maintain constant surveillance, leading to Tripp’s eventual financial downfall and personal upheaval.

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6. Legal Proceedings and Settlements: The Aftermath for Tripp and Others

The episode details the legal battles that ensued post-trial, highlighting the use of arbitration to keep disputes and allegations out of the public eye. Tripp and his associates, including Sean Guthrow, faced challenges in seeking justice, often resulting in settlements that remain undisclosed.

• Quote (37:42): "And Sean's settlement is under seal. I can't see what it says." – Alexey Mostros

These settlements not only silence the individuals involved but also prevent the public from accessing critical information about Tesla’s internal practices and Musk’s influence.

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7. Lynette Lopez’s Experience: Journalistic Repercussions

Journalist Lynette Lopez, who broke the Tripp story, faced significant backlash from Elon Musk, including accusations of being complicit with short sellers intent on sabotaging Tesla’s reputation. Her suspension from Twitter after Musk’s acquisition exemplifies the broader pattern of silencing dissenting voices.

• Quote (38:33): "Elon Musk directed everything. Nobody will convince me to this day that Elon Musk did not." – Lynette Lopez

Lopez’s experience underscores the challenges journalists face when confronting powerful figures like Musk, highlighting a climate of intimidation and control over public discourse.

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8. Insights and Conclusions: Elon Musk’s Control Over Information

Through meticulous investigation, Alexey Mostros paints a portrait of Elon Musk as a figure who leverages substantial resources to maintain control over information and suppress criticism. The episode illustrates a systematic approach to monitoring, legal action, and public relations manipulation aimed at neutralizing threats to Musk’s reputation and Tesla’s image.

• Quote (39:46): "To Musk, Martin Tripp isn't a whistleblower. He's a threat. He dispatches two senior Tesla security staff, called Nick and Jake, to get to the truth." – Alexey Mostros

The recurring theme is Musk’s intolerance for dissent within his organizations, employing both overt and covert methods to ensure his narrative remains unchallenged. This approach not only impacts individuals like Tripp and Lopez but also raises broader ethical and legal questions about corporate power and accountability.

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9. Final Thoughts

Episode 2 of Elon's Spies, "Horrible Human Being", offers a compelling and detailed exploration of the lengths to which Elon Musk and his enterprises will go to protect their interests. By shedding light on the manipulation, surveillance, and legal strategies employed against whistleblowers and journalists, the episode provides critical insights into the darker aspects of corporate governance and the pursuit of power.

For listeners interested in understanding the complexities of Elon Musk’s influence and the ramifications for those who oppose him, this episode serves as a vital resource, unveiling the interplay between wealth, power, and information control in the modern corporate landscape.

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Notable Quotes with Speaker Attribution:

• "Eventually he sends me this kind of long screed about Vernon Unsworth, claiming that he was a, quote, child rapist who had taken a 12-year-old bride." – Alexey Mostros [02:59]

• "Musk now needs to reveal exactly what surveillance he used on me, which firms, and what methods." – Martin Tripp [07:12]

• "I was to call Jeff with the update of anything of that nature." – Carl Hansen [31:15]

• "Elon Musk directed everything. Nobody will convince me to this day that Elon Musk did not." – Lynette Lopez [38:33]

• "To Musk, Martin Tripp isn't a whistleblower. He's a threat. He dispatches two senior Tesla security staff, called Nick and Jake, to get to the truth." – Alexey Mostros [39:46]

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions of the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the podcast.

Transcript

[Chloe Hegemotheo]

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Tortoise.

[Alexey Mostros]

Last time on Elon Spies since we published, another source came forward to.

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Say that they had seen a dossier.

[Alexey Mostros]

That was pulled together by this private investigator, which was some of my first emails with Elon Musk. Eventually he sends me this kind of long screed about Vernon Unsworth, claiming that he was a, quote, child rapist who had taken a 12 year old bride.

[Martin Tripp]

I find it difficult to talk about because I think it's the most disgusting thing that you can call anybody, really. Once the private investigator got involved, then, you know, things get pretty shitty. Morning. This is 21st August 2024. I'm basically going to read out an email. So the email starts. Dear Martin, first of all, I would like to congratulate you and the team on what they achieved with the rescue.

[Alexey Mostros]

Towards the end of my interview with Vernon Unsworth, he mentioned something that makes my ears prick up. I'd spent a lot of time talking to him about a man called James Howard Higgins, a convicted fraudster who successfully convinced Elon Musk that Vernon had skeletons in his closet. Howard Higgins spent weeks feeding false information back to Musk and his team. I've seen a lot of court documents which lay that relationship bare, but I'd never seen the email that Vernon was now referring to. It wasn't in the court papers and as far as I'm aware, has never been made public. Vern doesn't have it in front of him. This is six years ago we're talking about and it takes him a couple of days to find. When we get back on the phone, he reads it out.

[Martin Tripp]

I have been asked to make discreet inquiries with people who know Vernon to find out what kind of person he is.

[Alexey Mostros]

The email arrives out of the blue. Two months after Musk's Pedoguy tweet, it's sent to Martin Ellis, someone who helped Vern with the rescue in Thailand. The sender says he works for a company called Orion Investigations. He doesn't appear to have anything to do with James Howard Higgins. In fact, he says he wants to.

[Martin Tripp]

Challenge the content of reports produced on behalf of Musk. If you are willing to speak with me, anything you said would be off the record.

[Alexey Mostros]

And he gives Martinellis a big assurance.

[Martin Tripp]

I am not working on behalf of Elon Musk. We have been appointed by a third party who in turn is working on behalf of Vernon.

[Alexey Mostros]

Vernon knows that this just isn't true. He never commissioned anyone to do this. So the question is, who employed Orion? Who employed this second investigation firm to try and dig up information on Vernon? A firm which was willing to say that they worked for him when they didn't. I tried to contact Orion about this, but when I got them on the phone, their representatives couldn't say anything on the record. However, I understand that their position is that they never actually knew the identity of their ultimate client. Orion was hired through an intermediary, another Company based in Thailand. To me, the timing of Orion's email, plus the very specific brief that the firm was given, means that the pool of people who could have employed them through that intermediary is very small. And Orion, I understand that the firm now accepts that its ultimate client, the person responsible for paying their bills, wasn't Vernon Unsworth, but was very likely to have been Elon Musk. And if that's true, I think it matters because it starts to establish a pattern.

[Martin Tripp]

Musk now needs to reveal exactly what surveillance he used on me, which firms, and what methods. The Pedo guy defamation still hangs over me six years later.

[Alexey Mostros]

When it comes to private investigators, how many times was Musk willing to push the boundaries? Uncovering Orion's involvement in Vernon's case felt like progress, but it was also a bit depressing. It showed how murky the world of private intelligence was, how sometimes even the investigation firms themselves aren't aware of who ultimately is paying them. If Elon Musk could shield his use of private investigators in this way, how was I going to uncover how he used them more broadly? Luckily, someone came along to lift the curtain. From Tortoise Media, this is elon Spies, Episode 2 Horrible Human Being Can I just get you to sit in this chair? Thank you. And you'll be talking to this microphone. I can't give you the real name of the man who came into our studio, but let's call him Max. So how would you like to describe yourself?

[Max]

I would describe myself as a Tesla whistleblower.

[Alexey Mostros]

And what can you tell me about yourself in a way that kind of preserves your anonymity?

[Max]

I feel like I'm working for the public, for the public interest, and I'm sharing information that could help the public understand how Tesla's top management operates.

[Alexey Mostros]

Max used to work at Tesla. He had concerns about safety there. When his concerns were ignored, he started to think about other ways to draw attention. You want to stay anonymous in this interview, can you tell me why it's important that we protect your identity?

[Max]

I'm standing up about against very dangerous and powerful individuals, so it's reasonable to protect my identity.

[Alexey Mostros]

We're only in the studio with max for around 10 minutes, but even for that short time, the impact on his body language was clear. His hands were pressed against his thighs. He couldn't quite sit still. Oh.

[Max]

But just speaking about it makes me anxious. My hands are like rubbing my hands.

[Alexey Mostros]

Yeah, yeah.

[Max]

It's just what it is.

[Alexey Mostros]

Well, it's been a big part of your life for.

[Max]

It's been A long time. Sometimes I feel like it will get better. Sometimes, no. Maybe this will follow me forever.

[Alexey Mostros]

And Max says his concerns over safety were ignored at Tesla. So he began leaking documents to journalists. It was a big decision, and one that still weighs heavily on his mind. He says his mental health has suffered after the way he was treated by Tesla. And as it turns out, he's not alone in that. Most of Max's documents are about Tesla's famous autonomous driving technology. It's what lets you take your hands off the wheel and let the car do all the work. Max says the company cut corners when it came to this technology's development. Tesla strongly denies this, by the way. While this safety data was fascinating, I was interested in something else Max's documents showed. I've just been handed these internal documents that relate to Musk's security operation. I don't know exactly what detail they contain, but they're the first time I think that a journalist has got to look at exactly how Musk runs his surveillance operation. I spent a few days looking through Max's material. Inside were dozens of invoices to Elon Musk from a security firm called Gavin de Becker and Associates. And I had this vision then that prominent people would have a business manager.

[Lynette Lopez]

Or an agent or a law firm.

[Alexey Mostros]

And they would have this other consulting.

[Lynette Lopez]

Firm that would advise them on safety and privacy.

[Alexey Mostros]

And that vision at 19, is pretty much what's happened. I've heard of this company before. They've provided security for other big billionaires like Jeff Bezos. From 2014, dozens of Gavin de Becker employees were tasked with protecting Musk. The documents show how they were constantly at Musk's side, protecting him, but also picking up his dry cleaning, buying expensive sunglasses for him from Amazon, or picking up his tab at hotels and nightclubs around the world. The invoices were for big money, enough to pay for a security team which operates like a mini secret service with operatives drawn from the CIA, the US Marines, and the FBI. According to one report, Musk's bodyguards even go to the toilet with him. But Gavin de Becker didn't just provide personal protection to Musk. So I think what these documents show is that Gavin de Becker offered two services to Elon Musk and to Tesla. One is the security side, the guys that stand next to him and protect him. But the other is investigations. If someone is threatening Tesla or Musk, Gavin de Becker will look into it. I should say here this isn't unusual. As one of the rich, richest men in the world, Musk faces stalkers and death threats on a regular basis. But Gavin de Becker didn't just investigate potential stalkers on Musk's behalf. The invoices show they prepared reports on competitors and rivals, people like the guy who used to own the tesla.com domain name. He reportedly was visited by a private investigator on three occasions. The documents also contain hints as to how Gavin de Becker investigators gathered information for their boss. So there's one invoice from September 2014 which bills Musk for investigative research and a sting operation in San Francisco. It's unclear what case that related to, but a sting operation is interesting because stings are not necessarily legal practices. It's hard to know what sting operation might refer to here. A sting generally means when an investigator goes undercover, in other words, when he obtains information by deception. But it covers a range of behaviors from the ordinary to the sinister. And the documents don't contain details about the particular case in which it was used. There's also no evidence that Gavin de Becker acted illegally. When I put all this to Gavin de Becker, they didn't want to comment. I felt like the picture was getting clearer. The Gavin de Becker documents show that Musk has employed investigators for years, that they looked into people who weren't a physical threat to Musk and how they used controversial techniques like pretexting, meaning pretending to be someone you're not, and sting operations to get results. What I wanted to know next was how Musk used private investigators when it came to something really important to him, his own companies.

[Sean Guthrow]

My name is Lynette Lopez. I am a journalist and commentator. And for these purposes, I'd say that I spent years investigating Tesla and Elon Musk.

[Alexey Mostros]

That's fantastic. And actually, that segues nicely into my second question, which is, how long have you been reporting on Elon Musk?

[Sean Guthrow]

I started looking into Tesla in 2018, about the time that the company ramped up, made this car called the Model 3, right before it moved to China. Basically right before Elon Musk kind of really caught his stride as a billionaire mogul. It was post Iron man, pre weird political Elon.

[Alexey Mostros]

Lynette Lopez started paying attention to Musk in the same year as the Vernon Unsworth story. One of the first articles she wrote about him had the headline, elon Musk doesn't care about you. She knows a lot about Tesla and how its owner behaves. But I've come to Lynette for a very specific reason. For a while, she became the story rather than just reporting on it. And it was all because of a Tesla engineer called Martin Tripp. Can you just tell me a bit about who Martin Tripp was? Was?

[Sean Guthrow]

Martin Tripp was a line worker in the Tesla gigafactory in Nevada. And he was building parts. He noticed that quite a lot of those parts were defective as Tesla was trying to ramp up building the Model 3. This is spring 2018, and so these defective parts would be simply scrapped, thrown into the desert.

[Alexey Mostros]

Now, it's maybe not the sexiest part of this story, but what really bothers Martin is the waste.

[Sean Guthrow]

He also noticed that some of these defective parts were being reworked and put back into cars. And he was just very alarmed by Tesla's just shoddy manufacturing.

[Alexey Mostros]

Tesla has always denied these claims. It says it's one of the most effective and efficient carmakers in the world. World. And it's true that a lot of Tesla employees really care about what they do. They pride themselves on working for Elon, who they see as a visionary. Martin was like that too, at least at first. A few years before, Musk had asked all Tesla employees to email him directly if they saw any problems. So Martin did just that.

[Sean Guthrow]

And he and his bosses were extremely concerned about this, to the point that, you know, they did email and discuss this with Elon Musk, who then said that, yes, getting scrapped down to 1% is a huge goal for Tesla now.

[Alexey Mostros]

But then, nothing changes. So in May 2018, Martin gets in touch with Lynette.

[Lynette Lopez]

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[Alexey Mostros]

Can you just tell me, why do you think Trip reached out to you? What was he trying to accomplish?

[Sean Guthrow]

I think in a way, he thought he could help by forcing Musk to see what was going on at the company. Tripp naively kind of thought, well, if I bring this to his attention, something will come of it and we'll see improvements. But that is not how it works with Elon Musk.

[Alexey Mostros]

Martin sends an email to Lynette. There's some back and forth, and they speak on the phone. Did you have any kind of visibility into how aggressively Tesla might go after him?

[Sean Guthrow]

Well, to a certain extent, yes, because Tesla had a line worker, an hourly wage worker, sign an NDA, everyone signed NDAs. So you could tell that it was a very secretive company. Elon had displayed a little bit of paranoia, and he believed he had enemies in the, you know, in the oil and gas industry, that kind of thing. I did know that Tesla was obsessed with secrecy.

[Alexey Mostros]

The information Martin hands Lynette is enough for her to turn it into a story. On June 4, 2018, she reports that Tesla is scrapping 40% of the raw materials at the Gigafactory, its huge battery plant in the Nevada desert. It's a pretty niche story that might have gone unnoticed by most people, but it's also the catalyst that will change Martin Tripp's life.

[Sean Guthrow]

Basically, immediately after my first story came out, they were trying to find out who the leaker was.

[Alexey Mostros]

Do you think the investigation into Martin Tripp was normal?

[Lynette Lopez]

It's interesting looking at it now, knowing what I know about what they really did. No, it wasn't normal.

[Alexey Mostros]

You might look at Elon Musk's posts on Twitter and see him as a free speech champion. But when it comes to someone within his own company speaking to the press, that's a different matter. To Musk, Martin Tripp isn't a whistleblower. He's a threat. He dispatches two senior Tesla security staff, called Nick and Jake, to get to the truth. Nick and Jake are part of Tesla's senior security team.

[Lynette Lopez]

They're a bunch of CIA spooks, former law enforcement officials, and that they're on the ground because essentially, Martin Tripp's a bad dude and he's trying to sabotage the company. Right.

[Alexey Mostros]

And working alongside these former government agents are people like Carl Hansen.

[Lynette Lopez]

And I was recruited into their internal investigations department. I was informed that Tesla was scaling its internal investigations team.

[Alexey Mostros]

Carl worked for the US Military before joining Tesla. And superficially, his job is Similar, but actually it's a bit less sophisticated. Mostly, he's looking at CCTV footage, investigating allegations of theft at the factory, that sort of thing. When it comes to investigating Martin Tripp, Nick and Jake take the lead. After gathering some preliminary evidence, they stick Martin in a room and interview him for several hours over two days. Martin admits what he's done, says he was only trying to help. Four days later, he's fired. And most companies would have left it there. Bigger fish to fry, move on to the next thing. But in a move that is reminiscent to me of Vernon's story, Musk and Tesla, they dig deeper. That's when it starts to get really weird.

[Lynette Lopez]

Now, you recall the allegation that Martin Tripp was going to come to the gigafactory and shoot it up. Do you recall that? Okay, yeah. So my involvement began on that day with anything truly related to Martin Trippe.

[Alexey Mostros]

On June 20, the company sues Trippe for $167 million. In an email exchange shortly afterwards, Musk called Trippe a horrible human being. And on the same day as the lawsuit, Tesla said it received an anonymous call from a friend of Tripp's saying he's unstable and, and armed.

[Lynette Lopez]

And as I was pulling into the facility, I. My vehicle was flagged down and I saw security personnel running all over. It was like something happened. And I was told to go inside because Martin Tripp, basically, we have an active shooter threat. Martin Tripp is on his way to the gigafactory, threatening to shoot people up and shoot the place up.

[Alexey Mostros]

The company's PR department tells journalists that their worried trip is coming to shoot up the factory. This isn't actually what the anonymous caller says. They just say Trippe is armed and extremely emotional. But that doesn't matter, thanks to briefings by Tesla and by Elon Musk directly. By the time news of the incident reaches the world's press, the story is clear. Tripp isn't just upset, he's actively on his way to the factory to shoot the place up.

[Lynette Lopez]

All we know is the phone call was made.

[Alexey Mostros]

Sean Guthrow, Tesla's head of security and Carl's boss, phones a team of private investigators, which the company had hired earlier, to tail Trip. Tesla might operate a mini Secret Service within the walls of its gigafactory. But Guthrow needs a team who can trail Martin outside its gates. The PIs know where Martin is before the police do. He's at a local casino.

[Max]

You don't have any guns on mind.

[Alexey Mostros]

If I just pat you down? Real quick search. All right, go ahead and turn around for me.

[Lynette Lopez]

Real quick.

[Alexey Mostros]

All right, go ahead and put your hands smaller back. You're not under arrest. Just checking your weapons. Okay, Sheriff. Body cam footage shows the moment police catch up with him. You can hear Martin crying. He's visibly distressed. He's unarmed. He has no idea why he's being searched. Martin tells the sheriff he believes he's being followed. Later on, the police ask Sean Guthrow how he knew where Trip was before they did. According to a police report, Guthrow replies, little birds sing. The active shooter incident is unnerving. It's dramatic and eye catching, almost enough to distract from the more serious allegation about what's happening, allegedly behind closed doors. On the morning of the active shooter threat, Carl Hansen is tasked with raking through Martin's social media accounts to see if there are any clues about what he's really up to until Carl is told to stand down.

[Lynette Lopez]

But Nick and Jake have a team on Martin Tripp right now. They know where he is. They've been telling him they've hacked his computers and phones. Now he tells me this.

[Alexey Mostros]

They were saying, don't bother checking the public stuff because we've got access to.

[Lynette Lopez]

Something better at that point. Yeah, just.

[Alexey Mostros]

And that's not the end of it.

[Lynette Lopez]

They were literally doing real time watching and capturing communications that Martin Tripp was making while they were doing this surveillance on him. And they also initiated a team to follow him around.

[Alexey Mostros]

After Tesla sues him, Martin gets a lawyer and countersues. His lawsuit doesn't contain any allegations that his phone might have been hacked. That changes when Carl gives a deposition in Martin's case about a year later. A deposition is basically when a witness gives evidence before a trial. In his deposition, Carl says Musk's investigators secretly gained access to Martin's phone. That they were able to read personal messages from his wife in real time. It's the first time that Martin has heard this. If such claims are true, it seems like a clear example of where investigators working for Musk pushed the boundaries of what was acceptable and may even have broken the law. Tesla, Nick, Jake and Elon Musk, all strongly discussed, deny that any unlawful interception took place or that any wrongdoing occurred. Carl's testimony is pretty shocking. But there is a problem. He wasn't in the room when this alleged hacking took place. He kept hearing about things that were happening, but he has no hard evidence. It's a he said, she said type of story in except for one thing. The same guy who was in charge of investigating Trip. Carl Hansen's supervisor, the former soldier Sean Guthrow, became a whistleblower. This deposition is being videotaped at all times unless specified to go off the video record. This is a video deposition given by Sean Guthrow. It has never been made public before. Like Carl, Sean gives evidence in Martin's case before launching his own lawsuit against Tesla. But unlike Carl, Sean is in the room for many of the key decisions. Sean says that as soon as Tesla suspects that Martin is talking to the press, the company's investigators begin to follow him.

[Carl Hansen]

It was more of understanding his pattern of movement, where he was located, you know, understanding when he came in and off the site. That was my responsibility before things started to heat up and escalate.

[Alexey Mostros]

This is what Sean and the team around him were doing, both when Martin was still an employee at Tesla, but also in the days after he left.

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Was Mr. Tripp ever followed by any Tesla personnel?

[Carl Hansen]

Yes.

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What was your. Were you involved in arranging for a personal investigator to follow Mr. Tripp?

[Carl Hansen]

Yes. My responsibility was to stay in communication with the PI team. And if there's anything of significance, then whether it's through the radio or through cell phone.

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Right.

[Carl Hansen]

I was to call Jeff with the update of anything of that nature.

[Alexey Mostros]

Sean says he can't remember the name of the investigations company, but he does remember how the operation worked.

[Carl Hansen]

But there are three to four different individuals, and it was a shift, by shift basis that they would do four.

[Alexey Mostros]

Investigators on one target, following him around wherever he went.

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And was that 24 hours a day?

[Carl Hansen]

Yes.

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Was he surveilled, why he was at work?

[Carl Hansen]

No.

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It was just when he left work.

[Alexey Mostros]

That's correct. When I stop and think about this for a second, it's pretty extraordinary. If Martin Tripp worked for any other company and started posting messages on Twitter, Elon Musk would be the first to defend his right to do so. And yet, because Tripp works for Tesla, Musk. Musk does everything he can to shut him down, including allegedly keeping tabs on him 24 hours a day.

[Lynette Lopez]

Elon Musk directed everything. Nobody will convince me to this day that Elon Musk did not.

[Alexey Mostros]

It's not clear to me why Tesla put so much effort into putting Martin Tripp under surveillance. Maybe Musk thought that Trippe was communicating with short sellers, People betting against a company he'd sweated blood to build. Whatever the motivation, the surveillance against Trippe was extensive. I've seen documents suggesting the whole operation cost a cool half a million dollars. And in his deposition Sean Guthrow is prepared to reveal more details about how the operation allegedly worked. You said monitoring of his devices and is that what you were talking about? Some images in the room next to where Mr. Tripp was being interviewed? Correct. This was back when Martin was under investigation in the days before he was fired. He was being grilled by a member of Tesla's HR team. And Sean Guthrow says that he was sat in the room next door with the rest of Tesla's senior security team. Sean says that as soon as Martin got a break from the HR interview, he would send emails or text messages from his personal phone, including messages to his wife. Now, can you describe for me what the room looked like?

[Chloe Hegemotheo]

How was the room situated?

[Carl Hansen]

Essentially what I was seeing was like a fuzzy. It wasn't a fuzzy image, but it was an image image of what looked like a. The background of an application of a phone. And it was almost like it was an interface where you can click on things and open things up. And then when the text messages were there, you can actually see there'd be a delay, but you could see the text messages that were coming in after the fact, emails, the notification bars popping up, things like that. So I did wasn't paying attention or staring too hard at it, but that was what was going on.

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How do you know it was Mr. Tripp's emails and text messages?

[Carl Hansen]

Because the name of his wife was brought up. We also were seeing emails that are coming from him. We also did see the emails to Bloomberg. There was also a point in time where we saw pictures of his kid. So it was to that, you know, that's how I knew.

[Alexey Mostros]

Sean Guthrow is clear that he doesn't know for sure that Tripp's phone is being tapped. His position is that the messages he saw, including personal messages, strongly suggest that this is the case. Tesla strongly denies that any hacking or any illegal or disproportionate activity took place. The company has said Guthro was let go for poor performance, including repeated failure to demonstrate and understand best practices in the security industry. This concludes the video deposition of Sean.

[Martin Tripp]

Guthrow on May 29, 2019.

[Alexey Mostros]

Off the video record.

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[Alexey Mostros]

Both Martin and Sean have settled their claims against Tesla. Martin admitted accessing private information and paid Tesla an undisclosed sum. Sean's settlement is under seal. I can't see what it says. And he didn't respond to any requests for comment. In Carl Hansen's case, his own case against Tesla was dismissed.

[Lynette Lopez]

So we were forced into arbitration.

[Alexey Mostros]

Sean also had to use an arbitrator in his case against Tesla. That's because the company makes it very hard for any Tesla employee to sue it in open court. Unlike a public court case, which anyone can attend, arbitrations happen in private. And any judgment known as an arbitration award will usually be kept secret between the parties. Some people argue that arbitrations are cheaper and quicker than a full court case. But to its critics, the process allows a company like Tesla to keep details of alleged wrongdoing from getting out. They say that arbitration allows Elon Musk to keep criticism sealed behind closed doors.

[Lynette Lopez]

And it's just. It's how he operates. And I think he believes he is above the law, beyond reproach, and that nobody can touch him.

[Alexey Mostros]

Martin Tripp is now living in another part of America. He's hundreds of miles away from the gigafactory. He's got a young daughter, he's divorced. He's trying to get on with his life. But he continues to be hounded by Musk's lawyers. Last year, weighed down with debt, Martin declared bankruptcy. At the court hearing for his bankruptcy, Musk sent expensive lawyers to object. He didn't want Martin to get out of paying the company a penny of its settlement.

[Sean Guthrow]

Martin didn't sleep well. Martin's life was basically ruined. You know, Elon Musk knew that Tripp didn't have the means to fight him legally, financially. But Elon didn't care. He wanted to drop the hammer on this guy as an example to everyone else who work at Tesla of what would happen to you if you talked to the media about what was going on there.

[Alexey Mostros]

As for Lynette, the reporter who broke the Martin Tripp story, she says she was in the firing line, too. After her piece was published, Musk falsely accused her on Twitter of being on the payroll of short sellers who were betting against Tesla, basically being paid to sabotage the company. Four years later, when Musk took over Twitter, he suspended Lynette from the platform, she says, for the simple act of reporting on Elon Musk. All of these claims fed into the way I was coming to think about Musk as someone who tries hard to control information at the same time as he professes to defend it. Forced arbitration, millions spent on investigators, public criticism of your enemies on Twitter. Was it all part of the same mindset? A billionaire who can't let go, who can't let grudges drop, and who demands control over everything around him, whether inside his companies or out. Coming up on Elon Spies, we got an anonymous tip that said essentially there's.

[Martin Tripp]

A young football player who's been spotted leaving Amber Heard's rented accommodation.

[Alexey Mostros]

But do you suspect that he might have accessed your messages on Twitter? Well, I'm certain he absolutely does. And I'm certain he scours anybody who he scours. It makes sense to conclude that someone working on behalf of Elon Musk procured that information and passed it back to him. I can't say for sure like from my experience, but if you lay out the pieces, there aren't that many different.

[Martin Tripp]

Ways it could, it could go.

[Alexey Mostros]

When we contacted Orion Investigations, they told us that they were a well regarded commercial investigations company. They are happy that the company acted ethically at all times in relation to Mr. Unsworth, who the firm regards as a genuine hero. Elon Spies is presented by me, Alexey Mostros. It's co written by me and Gary Marshall who is also the series producer. Original composition and sound design by Tom Kinsella. Podcast artwork is by John Hill. This episode was fact checked by Xavier Greenwood. The executive producer is Kerry Thomas.

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