In good faith | Deep Water Ep6

Summary

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Deep Water | Tortoise Investigates

Episode 6: "In Good Faith" (December 16, 2025)

Host: The Observer / Lydia Gard

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Overview of the Episode

In this compelling final episode of "Deep Water," investigative journalist and freediver Lydia Gard delves into the escalating tensions within the freediving world, where doping allegations and community fracturing haunt what appears to be a serene, niche sport. Gard interviews Vitamir Maricic, a prominent Croatian coach and diver at the center of the doping controversy, scrutinizes competing claims, and explores the blurred boundaries of "performance enhancement." As freediving grows more professional and competitive, the episode unpacks the human complexities—ego, safety, and the shifting definitions of fair play—impacting both the sport’s integrity and its future.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Interview with Vitamir Maricic: Setting the Scene

• Gard’s Motivation: Lydia explains her attempt to reach out to all parties involved, especially Vitamir, who is initially wary, fearing another “witch hunt.”

  • [02:16] “His voice is an important part of the story, that it will be an opportunity for him to address the rumours and allegations…” —Nadia Gard

• Vitamir's Background: He recounts his childhood dream to be a freediver, his sports science education, and transition to professional freediving.

  • [04:27] “Other people wanted to be an astronaut and I was like, well, I would just like to be a freediver and just freedive.” — Vitamir Maricic

• Sport Evolution: Vitamir criticizes outdated training methodologies and describes his own modern, athletic approach to freediving; highlights lack of qualifying standards and professionalism.

  • [06:47] “It’s open to all, so it’s very... It’s like a jungle.” — Vitamir Maricic

2. Viral Video, Accidents, and Concealment

• On Sharing Dangerous Footage: Vitamir and Petar posted a viral video of a serious freediving accident, sparking debate.

  • [07:57] “People like to see Formula One crashes and knockouts… But also, I see it as educational... these things happen… the community is shaped around hiding that rather than speaking about it, which in my opinion, is very wrong.” — Vitamir Maricic

• Safety Culture: He argues that hiding injuries only undermines the sport, and transparency will drive safety improvements.

  • [09:22] “I think it’s time that we start speaking about it so that we can actually create better protocols and procedures.” — Vitamir Maricic

• Public Perception vs. Normalization: Lydia worries public footage may normalize injuries for young divers; Vitamir disagrees on its impact.

  • [10:20] “I’ve never met anyone who wishes to have a lung squeeze. Never.” — Vitamir Maricic

3. The Vertical Blue Bag Search Controversy

• The Bag Search: Discussion of the infamous bag search at Vertical Blue, where substances were found in the Croatian team’s luggage.

  • [11:31] “I have no idea what would motivate someone to do something like that... there’s constantly attempts to harm us in any way.” — Vitamir Maricic
  • [13:52] “I made a leap of trust in good faith to share my time and do the story with you. So let’s see where it goes.” — Vitamir Maricic

• Alleged Banned Substances: Lydia runs through what was confiscated. Vitamir admits they had a WADA-banned substance (furosemide), but says it was for medical emergencies and never used.

  • [15:52] “It does have in medical procedures and especially in severe lung squeezes, we have been lucky to have never used it… I would never risk my health or anyone’s health if I can help them.” — Vitamir Maricic

• Medical Preparedness and Rule Inconsistencies: Vitamir notes the lack of standardization in medical provisions at competitions.

  • [17:38] “I teach at the Medical [University]… and I see how unprepared are pulmonologists or traumatologists for something freediving related… there is no regulation on the level of the medic or what gear or expertise he needs to have…” — Vitamir Maricic

4. The Benzodiazepine Question: Are They Doping?

• Presence and Use of Benzos: The team had multiple prescriptions of diazepam and alprazolam (not WADA-prohibited), claiming use for jetlag recovery. Lydia is skeptical based on medical advice.

  • [19:41] “We had them. We had them and we used them for, like, recovering from jet lag. We found that as the most effective way to recover from jet lag.” — Vitamir Maricic

• Medical Community Reaction: Doctors consulted say prescribing benzos for jetlag—in quantity—is inappropriate and dangerous, especially for freedivers.

  • [21:10] “It’s quite frightening. Benzos obviously cause respiratory depression… your body isn’t telling you to breathe, and then your mind’s not telling you to breathe…” — GP, relayed by Lydia Gard

• Questions on Transparency: Gard notes that if prescriptions were legitimate, publishing them would end speculation, but no evidence is produced.

• Ethical and Technical Boundaries: Vitamir draws a distinction between what is legal and what is ethical within sport.

  • [25:29] “If someone would find something and that something would be legal in all aspects, I would be careful in judging them… it’s the flaw of the system, not of the person exploiting that.” — Vitamir Maricic

5. Community Division, Reputation, and Narrative Control

• Ongoing Polarization: Lydia highlights that both sides (including Vitamir and William Trubridge) claim victimhood and misrepresentation, leading to an entrenched, adversarial atmosphere.

  • [14:55] “They both call the other side a small group dismissing their intentions, vilifying each other. And it reminds me of the bullshit asymmetry principle, that it’s harder to disprove a lie than to create one.” — Nadia Gard

• Impact on Reputation: Vitamir’s sponsorship and career are at stake, reinforcing the personal risks of the scandal.

6. First-Person Perspectives and Conflicting Accounts

• Vitamir’s Denials and Admissions: He denies taking benzos for dives or seeing his teammates do so, but later admits to once testing them during a competition after being pressured by peers.

  • [32:11] “I was an idiot, a complete idiot to try something without testing it before in the world championship… I had a blackout. And my dive was amazing.” — Vitamir Maricic
  • [31:07] “I have tested it in a pool out of curiosity. I haven’t seen any performance enhancing elements. In fact, I had a feeling that my motivation and performance is decreased.” — Vitamir Maricic

• Allegations from Others: Lydia puts forward additional rumors—taking excessive benzos, encouraging students to try them, etc.—which Vitamir dismisses as fabricated or exaggerated.

  • [33:45] “I really think our response is not necessary. If you take something, why would you take six?” — Vitamir Maricic

7. Voices from the Community: Talia Davydoff

• Loyalty and Skepticism: Talia, a student, defends Vitamir’s integrity, character, and the training camp’s methods, while suggesting jealousy and confirmation bias fuel the attacks.

  • [35:39] “Vito is… the person that you feel incredibly… I feel incredibly safe in the water with… he’s not there to make you feel good about yourself. That’s not his job.” — Talia Davydoff
  • [37:00] “We’ve got confirmation bias now. We’ve got gatekeeping on what free diving is… Everyone has to be defined in opposition to something.” — Talia Davydoff

• A Villain for Every Community:

  • [38:09] “Every community needs a villain.” — Talia Davydoff

8. The Bigger Picture: Safety, Regulation, and the Future

• New Scandals & Systemic Failures: Lydia reports new safety failures at major competitions—serious injuries, decompression illness, and organizational errors—underscoring that regulatory systems are not keeping pace with risk.

  • [39:00+] Reports of major mishaps at CMAS and AIDA World Championships, illustrating governing bodies’ limits.

• Reflection and Call for Unity: Gard urges the freediving elite and regulators to look beyond personal egos and divisions and prioritize safety, fairness, and the sport’s sustainability.

  • [41:45] “Because at 100 metres deep, the water won’t distinguish between good and bad practice, truth or lies. It will just pull you down.” — Nadia Gard (host, concluding statement)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the culture of concealment:
  “Rules. And the community is kind of shaped around hiding that rather than speaking about it, which in my opinion, is very wrong.” — Vitamir Maricic [08:39]

• On performance-enhancement and the ethics of fair play:
  “If someone would find something… legal in all aspects, I would be careful in judging them… it’s the flaw of the system, not of the person exploiting that.” — Vitamir Maricic [25:29]

• On organizational failures:
  “It’s clear the people who make the rules in our sport… are failing.” — Lydia Gard [39:30]

• On polarization of the freediving community:
  “We’ve got confirmation bias now. We’ve got gatekeeping on what freediving is… Everyone has to be defined in opposition to something.” — Talia Davydoff [37:00]

• Philosophical closing:
  “At 100 metres deep, the water won’t distinguish between good and bad practice, truth or lies. It will just pull you down.” — Nadia Gard [41:45]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:16] – Gard introduces interview process with Vitamir and initial skepticism
• [04:27] – Vitamir recounts childhood dream and sporting approach
• [07:57] – Debate around the viral accident video; talking safety vs. spectacle
• [11:31] – Discussion of Vertical Blue bag search and resulting suspicion
• [15:52] – Admission of banned medication in luggage, for emergencies
• [19:41] – Benzodiazepines: presence, claimed use, doctor’s criticism
• [25:29] – Fair play, legality, and limits of the rules
• [31:07–32:11] – Vitamir admits to once trying benzos in competition, recounts context
• [35:39] – Talia Davydoff’s defense of Vitamir and critique of community division
• [39:00+] – New scandals, diving regulation failures
• [41:45] – Gard’s closing monologue on safety, truth, and the sport’s future

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Conclusion: Tone and Final Thoughts

With frank, sometimes combative dialogue, this episode exposes the complexity, infighting, and real human stakes behind freediving’s tranquil façade. Gard’s tone is probing but empathetic; Maricic is defensive, passionate, and occasionally philosophical; Talia injects loyalty and texture. The episode leaves the listener with more questions than answers—about the boundaries between legal and moral responsibility, community self-policing, and the dangers of unchecked ambition in extreme sport.

The message is clear: As freediving continues its rapid evolution, the challenge isn’t just going deeper—it's forging unity, transparency, and responsibility in an inherently risky pursuit.

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Transcript

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[Nadia Gard]

I first approached Vitamir and Petar back in August before their video went viral. Vitamir's initial response is quick and positive. He's happy to speak, but he asks if I'm linked to the person who led a witch hunt against them. I assume he's talking about William Troubridge, because apparently William has been contacting people in Vitamins Circle, and so have I. He says other reporting, other podcasts have been based on private interests misinformation. And he says, if this is another brilliant idea to try and do damage to me or my team, we will not take part in it and it will backfire to your credibility, just like the whole previous campaigns did. I explain to Vitamir that his voice is an important part of the story, that it will be an opportunity for him to address the rumours and allegations, and I mean it. So he says he'll give me the benefit of the doubt. I also email the other two Croatians who were implicated at Vertical Blue. Petar, who doesn't reply, and Sanda, who says she's very happy to speak to anybody if it's not a dirty game behind the scenes. Meantime, I put out a post on Instagram asking people in the community to talk to me. And PETA replies saying, I'm not part of this community. I'm Nadia Gard. I'm from Tortoise Investigates and the Observer. This is Deep Water episode six, In Good Faith.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Hi, nice to finally meet you. Thank you for your time. I know that you've had a very, very busy season. Lots of travel, lots of commitments.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Yeah, normally it's not that busy, but it seems to get busier every year.

[Nadia Gard]

Well, Vetimir has just woken up when we finally get to speak and he turns his camera on. He. He's lying on his bed in a hotel in Tulum, Mexico. He's there running a workshop. I'm in the studio in London. This call has been a long time coming and I'm relieved. I want to have the opportunity to put the allegations directly to Vitamin.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Other people wanted to be an astronaut and I was like, well, I would just like to be a freediver and just freedive.

[Nadia Gard]

He tells me that it was his childhood dream to be a freediver. He grew up in a coastal town and hung out underwater for fun. He started when he was about 4. He studied sports science and became a sports climber and instructor. He understood how to train to gain an advantage.

[Vitamir Maricic]

But yeah, life had other plans and I was much more involved.

[Nadia Gard]

He was involved in many sports, from mountain biking to highlining, until a bicep injury meant that he couldn't climb, so he pivoted.

[Vitamir Maricic]

So I said to myself, well, maybe this is a sign. I mean, freediving is like a sport for older people. It's not very intensive. It's not crazy hard on your system. You're not going to break anything there. Maybe I should try that.

[Nadia Gard]

And he identified a gap and seeing.

[Vitamir Maricic]

That training methodologies are completely outdated and not in line with modern sport principles. As a guy with a sport background, I was becoming super interested in seeing what I can do there and how I could help others maximize their potential. And it just kind of became something that consumed my life almost completely.

[Nadia Gard]

This was around 2017. The big names in freediving at the time were William Trubridge and Alexei Molchanov. Back then, freediving was more of a lifestyle choice than a career path. There was a lot of talk about equalisation. That's the way we open our ears. And the most common obstacle to depth, progression and diaphragm stretching. Not much emphasis on technique or strength and conditioning.

[Vitamir Maricic]

It was very, very clear when I came into the sport that I look differently, dive differently, and that there is something there that still performs well.

[Nadia Gard]

He talks about speed, agility, power. It's a new language for most freedivers and one that a small handful adopt, but others shun in favour of the accepted norms. Before then, it was all meditation, breathwork and yoga. And it meant that the line between recreational and professional freediving was thin. Even now, with a greater understanding of training techniques, anyone can start diving and enter a world championship. There's no minimum depth or qualifying series.

[Vitamir Maricic]

It's open to all, so it's very. It's like a jungle.

[Nadia Gard]

He talks about his accomplishments and successes in a way that's self reverential. He's got a pillow tucked under one arm as he tells me that when he first jumped in a pool to try freediving, he. He knocked out a dive that would be a silver or bronze medal in a competition.

[Vitamir Maricic]

I'm pretty sure that things will need to change if the sport will take a leap to the next level. I have a feeling that the sport is kind of ready to be launched into something much bigger.

[Nadia Gard]

We talk about what that would look like, how the way we organize and run competitions needs to be addressed, professionalized, how the International Olympics Committee need it to be a spectator sport in order for them to put money behind it. And right now it's not. And I agree, but for very different reasons. I'm thinking about the viral video of Petar's accident and the message that sends out, how it brings down a massive iron curtain.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

I want to understand from your point of view, because obviously there was a huge furore around your video. It went pretty viral. What motivated you to post that video?

[Vitamir Maricic]

I think it's a good video. I think Petter was motivated to post it. He asked me if I. If I agree with it, I said, yeah, sure, why not? I think it could be a good clickbait. It could go viral outside of the community, because it's just people like to see that in sports. People like to see Formula one crashes and knockouts, and it's just something people like to see. But also, I see it as. As educational, and I see it as something that's actually necessary to be talked about, because these things happen. And no matter how much we try to present that they don't, they do. And if you stick around freediving long enough and see enough competitions on a high level, you will see that things happen all the time. Rules. And the community is kind of shaped around hiding that rather than speaking about it, which in my opinion, is very wrong. This is not going to damage the sport in any way. It can only make it safer because we can understand things better.

[Nadia Gard]

Bittermere believes that it's the competition rules that need to change, that penalizing a diver for suffering a blackout or squeeze by not allowing them to continue in the competition means that divers hide their injuries, underplay them, because everything under the carpet.

[Vitamir Maricic]

I think it's time that we start speaking about it so that we can actually create better protocols and procedures. And after that video, there was a lot of discussion about that. And I think some things have started changing for the better and for the safer environment.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

I agree with sharing information and sharing protocols and demonstrating that there's two sides to this. There's the beautiful dive, and then there's the dive that goes wrong. I mean, absolutely. The only thing I would say is, like, I've got two teenage boys and they've watched that video. And apart from it being quite distressing to watch and them saying, like, please stop free diving, to me, I worried myself that it would normalize the idea that serious injuries and accidents are just quite casual. Like, it happened. We got over it. We moved on. Two weeks later, we were banging out national records, world records. Do you worry about how it might influence younger, less experienced divers to just normalize lung squeezes?

[Vitamir Maricic]

No, absolutely not. I don't see that. I've never met anyone who wishes to have a lung squeeze. Never. I only know people that wish to have less lung squeeze or to know more about lung squeeze or to know how to. How to manage lung squeeze if they happen to have one. Just like I've never seen anyone. You know, you. You see a mountain biker do a backflip and break his neck. I don't see anyone normalizing that. I don't see anyone Normalizing crashes in Formula one. Like, yeah, we're gonna have a crash next weekend. No, it's, it's, it's not gonna be normalized in that way. The reaction on the video was purely to create damage to ourselves personally.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

What do you think motivated this search in the first place?

[Vitamir Maricic]

I really don't know. At first, we didn't really believe it. We really didn't believe it. I really thought it was a joke.

[Nadia Gard]

We're talking about the bag search of Vertical Blue, the moment this all came to the surface.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Yeah, I really, I have no idea what would motivate someone to, to go and do something like that. I think we're just very, very different people. Definitely there's the result that someone is clinging on to and the hardness of accepting that things are changing, that there's new people coming. But still, in my opinion, creating something like that and going into so much wrongdoing, it's just something out of my comprehension. Like we were literally lured into a trap. And it's been ongoing. It's not like it ended. There's constantly attempts to, to harm us in any way. I'm, I have to say I'm impressed with these people's energy. And you've seen from my communication with you that I'm maybe even still concerned that this podcast is just an attempt to do the same. I'm still hoping it is not.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Well, we're a very serious outfit. You know, the observer is a very long standing, well established newspaper that, you know, at the end of the day, I am a free diver. I know about this story and this scandal because I'm a Freediver, because. But the reason I was motivated to start investigating the whole story was that I didn't feel that it had been properly told. I'd never heard your voices. I'd never seen both arguments laid out together. Everything seemed to be from one side or the other.

[Vitamir Maricic]

You never really. You never really made it your business to get to know those people. You never really flew in. You never really trained with us. You never really met us. You're just doing an interview, and the interview is going to be filtered and designed through our questions. So if you do have an agenda, you. You always can, you know, put it in that direction.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

I could, but my agenda is to tell the truth, and the truth has to.

[Nadia Gard]

It's true that I haven't dived with Vitamir, Petar or Sander, but I have spoken to divers who've attended their training camps and been coached in their program. I know they spent hours in the gym, they lift heavy, they push hard, and they party hard. That's just not how I dive.

[Vitamir Maricic]

I made a leap of trust in good faith to share my time and to do the story with you. So let's see where it goes.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Nadia Gard]

I can understand why Vitamir is uncomfortable with me coming to talk to him about this topic. There is a lot at stake. His reputation and Persona are crucial to his future success. He's a sponsored athlete, an ambassador and a competition organizer, a judge and a coach. And once your name is associated with doping, it's hard to get away from it. And let's face it, denial is the language of the innocent and the guilty. Yet he tells me that along with the negative consequences, there have been some positives too.

[Vitamir Maricic]

The wider community or everyone who looked at this from an outside perspective very quickly understood why is this happening, how is this happening? And that we are very much victims of this case and we've had a lot of support from the people in the community.

[Nadia Gard]

It's interesting. Both Will Trubridge and Vitamin Maricic have told me that they came out of this well, and yet the comments made online and the conversation in the community suggest otherwise. They both call the other side a small group dismissing their intentions, vilifying each other. And it reminds me of the bullshit asymmetry principle, that it's harder to disprove a lie than to create one. But some of this really is quite straightforward. I want to ask Vitamir directly what was actually in the luggage and what, if anything, they're taking.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Were you actually carrying those medications that he alleged you had in your luggage?

[Vitamir Maricic]

I'm not sure. He. We never really counted the medication. We have. We have a list of things that have been like, advised for us to carry on a remote location like that. And we have always.

[Nadia Gard]

I run through what was listed and Vitamir accepts that a waterband substance was in the luggage.

[Vitamir Maricic]

It does have in medical procedures and especially in severe lung squeezes, we have been lucky to have never used it because we never had such an emergency that it was life threatening to use. But you never know. I mean, I've seen some pretty bad cases and I would never risk my health or anyone's health if I can help them.

[Nadia Gard]

The reality is that somewhere remote you would want to ensure that the right emergency medicine is on hand. Especially if you're pushing hard and have a history of serious lung squeezes, you don't want to take chances. And right Now Aida and CMAs don't have a unified set of Rules about what a medic has to carry back to what Travis said. It's about the rules and who makes them. It's not inconceivable that the ADA medics wouldn't have had furosemide in their artillery. It's not the law to have it. And when I asked William Troubridge, he couldn't confirm if the medics at Vertical Blue did have it, only that he thought it was unlikely.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

But when Will shared the photograph of the blister pack of the furosemide that you had, there was a pill missing. But you're saying you've never used them, you've never had to.

[Vitamir Maricic]

The pills were gotten from a hospital and those are research packs, so they have been used somewhere, but not by us.

[Nadia Gard]

The WADA rules stipulate that in situations of genuine medical emergency, an athlete's health should never be compromised for anti doping regulations, and they are permitted to receive necessary treatment using a prohibited substance or method. An athlete is then expected to apply for an emergency Therapeutic use exemption, or tue, for possession or use of a prohibited substance. I have asked ADA if that application was made, but have had no response.

[Vitamir Maricic]

It's not really even about the organizer. I teach at the Medical Unique and I see how unprepared are pulmonologists or traumatologists for something freediving related because it's just not explored enough. They don't have really access to it, they're not exposed to it. In football, there is a rising level of heart attacks, for example, because just the game elevated to that level that people's hearts are constantly stopping. Nothing changes for football. It's just becoming more and more popular. But now there's. There's an ambulance that needs to be ready on every game, all the time there with a cardiologist. So the same thing happens for freediving as well. But currently you have no idea who's going to come. There is no regulation on the level of the medic or exactly what gear or expertise he needs to have to be there. It doesn't even have to be a doctor.

[Nadia Gard]

As a coach, he chooses to carry his own medical supplies to a competition rather than. Rather than take a punt on the organiser or the officiator providing the correct medical assistance in the case of an emergency. I can understand that, especially given what Dr. Bezo Silva told me about the amount of squeezes that occurred at Vertical Blue that year and how the medical team were unprepared for them. So I move on to the question so many of the people I've Spoken to have asked me to put to. Why all those benzos? Three brands, two types, diazepam and alprazolam in varying strengths, 0.25 milligrams, 2 milligrams, 5 milligrams.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

And the benzodiazepines, obviously, that were present in the luggage, it's not doping.

[Nadia Gard]

Right?

[Interviewer from The Observer]

We know that that's not on the water list. It's not prohibited, therefore it's not doping. But there is a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest they might be performance enhancing and we'll come to that in a minute. But did you have them with you personally or did they belong to somebody else who you were sharing the luggage with?

[Vitamir Maricic]

We had them. We had them and we used them for, like, recovering from jet lag. We found that as the most effective way to recover from jet lag.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Okay. Okay. You don't need a TUE for those anyway, right, if they're not on the water list, is that correct?

[Vitamir Maricic]

You do need a prescription for them, but you don't need it.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

And you had all the prescriptions and everything with you?

[Vitamir Maricic]

Yeah. And we, of course, William asked us, like, do we have prescription for the medication? We said yes. If you need any clarification or anything on that, just let us know so we can, like, show it or something.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Did you show it to him?

[Vitamir Maricic]

Never asked.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Would you share it with us?

[Vitamir Maricic]

They are shared in an article, so you can read the articles. All of this has been done and asked and, yeah, if you want, I can share it.

[Talia Davydoff]

I can, yeah.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

We can't ever rely on other journalists and their research because we have a big legal team checking everything that we say and do. Then obviously, if we say there's been a prescription, we need to have seen it ourselves. So if you don't mind, that would be great.

[Nadia Gard]

I followed this up by email, but he still hasn't shared the prescriptions with me. I did ask three doctors, in principle, who would anyone prescribe benzos for jet lag or recommend them for that use? All three said no. 1 GP with a particular interest in sports science explained that just having something sedating doesn't enable you to reset your circadian rhythm, and that in the UK at least, it would be one medication at one dose and then only two or three tablets worth. When I explained why I was asking, she was shocked. She said, I look at what you do and what freediving is, the extremes of what the body and mind is capable of. So throwing in anything that's a synthetic agent. On top of that, I just think it's quite frightening. Benzos obviously all cause respiratory depression. If you've got respiratory depression plus some sedation on top of that, your body isn't telling you to breathe, and then your mind's not telling you to breathe, breathe, you could potentially get past the point of no return. It's plausible that all the benzos in the Croatian diver's luggage at Vertical Blue belong to one of them, or that they all have a valid medical reason and a prescription. And that's nobody's business but theirs. Though it seems to me that if there is a valid prescription to share that could finally put the rumours to bed, then it would be simpler just to share it. Hey, you want to pay just 10.

[Talia Davydoff]

Bucks for your phone service at Boost Mobile?

[Nadia Gard]

Just 10 bucks for your phone service at Boost Mobile?

[Talia Davydoff]

Yeah, I totally do. I totally do.

[Nadia Gard]

This holiday the best gift is for you.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Pay just $10 a month for the first two months and 25amonth forever with.

[Nadia Gard]

Unlimited data, talk and tech.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Next offer [e-mail] after your first two.

[Nadia Gard]

Months, you'll pay $25 a month unless you go online or call to cancel.

[Paige Desorbo]

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[Nadia Gard]

What do.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

You say to the people who, even after looking at all of that and watching the whole thing play out and seeing that you haven't been done on any doping charges whatsoever that still call you or PETA or Sander dopers, what do you say to them?

[Vitamir Maricic]

I don't say anything. I mean, it's like if I called you out for being a thief, what are you going to say to me? Is there really anything necessary to say to me? Why? What grounds do I have to call you a thief? It's ridiculous. There's nothing to say. There's really nothing to say. I don't really waste my time on that.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

But do you see if we take away the word doping because it's a technicality, do you see performance enhancing drugs that aren't on the list as cheating? Because I know you talk a lot about fair play and clean sports. I've read a lot of your posts. Would you say that taking any performance enhancing drugs is cheating?

[Vitamir Maricic]

I mean, it's a difficult topic and I'm not sure if there is any real performance enhancing drugs. I personally wouldn't like it. I personally wouldn't approve it. But that's just because that's who I am and I really enjoy in finding ways to make your body and performance better with different methodologies. However, if someone would find something and that something would be legal in all aspects, I would be careful in judging them because. Because it's not about them, it's about how rules are set. So I wouldn't jump to conclusions in calling everyone. And maybe someone is. Maybe someone did find something that is really, really good and they're using it as a performance enhancer. And obviously they're not telling anyone. But if that's really legal, then it's the flaw of the system, not of the person exploiting that.

[Nadia Gard]

To Travis Tygart's point, it's just athletes doing what athletes do, which is to try to gain an advantage in any way they think they can. And it's down to the sport's rule setters to ensure that the rules encompass all things that are potentially performance enhancing or dangerous.

[Vitamir Maricic]

I will never sacrifice my health for anything. Like literally anything. I'm like not even 1% of my.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Health And I guess the same goes for the people that you coach. Right?

[Vitamir Maricic]

I hope I can never know that, but I really, really hope that through coaching people I also managed to transfer them the spirit of the sport, as I see it, and that is to find motivation in something that you really love doing. And if you really, really love training and progressing, then you spend the whole year doing something that you love as a coach.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

To a lot of divers, I'm assuming.

[Nadia Gard]

How many people do you coach currently.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Through our system, let's say a lot. I don't want to put out the.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Number, but it's 20 plus. Yeah. So if any one of those less experienced divers than you came along and said, oh, thinking of trying something, benzos, something, anything, performance enhancing, what would you say to them?

[Vitamir Maricic]

And that's a rule that I have, not only in freediving, but for the last 20 years. Like, first, I need to be clear on everything that anyone is taking because it's important for me to structure and to understand everything. Second, if you're going to take something that I don't think is ethical, then we're not going to do business. I'm not judging anyone. So for me, it's a hard no. Always been and always will be.

[Nadia Gard]

I've heard the voice note, I've heard him tell a less experienced diver that if he wants to try benzos, he can. Why not? They're not illegal. So I circle back and ask again.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

More directly, have you ever been offered benzodiazepines in a, like a competition environment?

[Vitamir Maricic]

Yeah, yeah. There's people who have, who have offered me benzodiazepines.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

And you've tried them in the competition environment?

[Vitamir Maricic]

No, I didn't really want to try them. I generally. Why would you, why would you risk something that you know is working? Like, why would you change something? So I, I, but I have been offered, yeah, and I know that people have been taking them, but I'm speaking strictly on pool. I've never really seen anyone offering or taking them in relation to that because.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

I, I have had it alleged to me that PETA has taken benzos. I think it was Valium, specifically a couple of Valium on a deep dive in the Adriatic. And that the person had spoken to you about it at the time and you'd said, oh, don't worry, he does it for his anxiety.

[Vitamir Maricic]

I'm 100% sure that that didn't happen because I'm 100% sure that he would share that with me because it's just, it's not only coaching Friendship, but it's also a safety concern. And I think he knows that. And I think I would be the first point of reference for that. And I'm pretty sure that whoever made this up made it up very recently because I guess there is a group of people that is just trying to push this agenda so hard.

[Nadia Gard]

But this isn't recent. My source told the same story to another diver long before the scandal broke.

[Vitamir Maricic]

So this is my take on things. Of course, theoretically, it could be possible that, I don't know, everything has been hidden from me and I've never seen anything, but I think the chances for that are extremely minimal.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Okay, so just to be 100% crystal clear, you've never taken benzodiazepines to do a dive, pool or depth, and as far as you know, neither is PETA.

[Nadia Gard]

Yeah, I've asked directly, he's answered no. And the conversation starts to move on.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

So when the bag search was publicized and Will shared everything online, on YouTube, on his website, how did you respond to that?

[Vitamir Maricic]

Just. You asked me for a competitive dive, so in a competitive environment, no, but I have been testing. I have tested once in a training environment, after I've been offered it and after I've had some concerns of seeing and hearing this for from multiple people. I have tested it in a pool out of curiosity. I haven't seen any performance enhancing elements. In fact, I had a feeling that my motivation and performance is decreased.

[Nadia Gard]

And for me, this is a catch that refuses to release because I've read a report on the Vertical Blue case on the diving website Deeper Blue. There he's quoted denying ever having taken them. And I've also heard the voice note in which he says he has tried them in a competition and again in private. So which is it?

[Vitamir Maricic]

And it was my first big competition. I had no clue about it. And I was like, what the fuck? He was, no, no, no. Take, take, take. Everyone takes. You must take. It will definitely make better results. And I'm like, okay, can I take half at least? And he was like, yeah, at least take half. And I took half. And I had a blackout. And my dive was amazing. But all my dives on comp are usually amazing. And then I was exploring after. I mean, I was an idiot, a complete idiot to try something without testing it before in the world championship, where I was definitely preparing a world record and was going for the gold medal.

[Nadia Gard]

And I can't help but wonder if it's not banned and not conclusively performance enhancing, if ethically and morally you believe you're doing nothing wrong, then why lie? We've been on the call for nearly two hours. At this point. It's mid morning in Tulum, late afternoon in London, but I have one area left to cover and it's likely to be the most uncomfortable. I have to share the allegations against him to give him an opportunity to respond to them.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

So one source has told me Vitamir loves pills and will take anything he finds useful.

[Vitamir Maricic]

The response necessary.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

Another said that they've witnessed Petar take.

[Nadia Gard]

Six Diazepam before a competition dive where.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

He had an underwater blackout and that afterwards the two of you had a good laugh about it.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Like, I really think our response is not necessary. If you take something, why would you take six?

[Interviewer from The Observer]

I have no idea. I've never taken one, so I wouldn't know. I think six would probably knock me out cold.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Yeah, I mean, I definitely wouldn't laugh about it. I would be really worried about it. But yeah, I'm absolutely not aware of that. And we definitely didn't have a laugh about it. We could have a conversation about it, but it never happened. So, yeah, it doesn't make sense. Is this the same story of the Valium story?

[Interviewer from The Observer]

No, no, different people. Somebody also mentioned that you have bragged about having Diazepam for breakfast and that you have encouraged your students to try it.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Again. I. I really wish people would find that's so stupid that I would really feel embarrassed just saying that. Like, even if something like that was.

[Nadia Gard]

True, I put a number of other allegations to Vitamir and his responses are much the same. The conversation's over and we wrap up the call. As I sit down to write this final episode, I follow up with the other divers I've been trying to speak to. Petar chooses not to respond. Instead, he copies and pastes my email and turns it into a reel on Instagram, insinuating that I'm not an independent journalist. Sanda calls me with a similar message. She isn't willing to do an interview, but Talia Davydoff wants to speak. She's the one who posted that blackout video I mentioned, and she's coached by Vitamir. She's just arrived home from the Bahamas. I'm at home too, and it's raining in both places. She says she's happy to be a spokesperson for the group who are tired of the whole thing. So we dive straight in.

[Talia Davydoff]

Vito is one of the people. He doesn't control anyone, but he's the person that you feel incredibly. I feel incredibly safe in the water with. Well, I think that What a lot of people don't realize, and I think what a lot of people don't realize, that why Veto makes them so uncomfortable is because Veto is not out there to make you feel good about yourself. That's not his job. He doesn't care to do it. He's not someone for small talk. He's not like, hey, how are you? Vito doesn't even have inflection within his voice.

[Nadia Gard]

We talk about the division in the community and agree that it's like a trench war with people throwing grenades and then sheltering.

[Talia Davydoff]

I think that's William's biggest problem is, or William Waleed, that side of the crew somehow can't believe. They can't believe that Petar is better than William. Therefore, they believe he had to have used something to get there. And I'm just like, go to a training camp. Go to their training camp. And then you tell me that he used anything other than belligerence and hard work and rage to get as he has. And maybe that's not what people consider a good athlete, but he's had no choice.

[Nadia Gard]

And once again, it circles back to the division in our community, to just how polarized it's become.

[Talia Davydoff]

We've got confirmation bias now. We've got gatekeeping on what free diving is. And I'm sorry if free diving is sunset and dolphins for you. I'm so happy for you. But just because that isn't what it is for me doesn't make me wrong. Everyone. Everyone has to be defined in opposition to something. Especially when you come into our world and then these new divers get so thrust into one side or the other, and then they're indoctrinated. I mean, there's a documentary of William from, like, early Blue Hole days where you're watching him have the gnarliest blackouts, having, like, you know, where everyone is saying to him, like, you need to calm down, bro. You're wild. You're a cowboy. And there was a time where William was the person in the freediving world represented as a cowboy. And, you know, and I truly believe that in 10 years time, no one's going to have a bad thing to say about pet R&D. So it's just going to be brushed over and felted out.

[Interviewer from The Observer]

And you think, every community needs a villain.

[Talia Davydoff]

Every community needs a villain.

[Nadia Gard]

At the end of that call, and after months of this investigation, my understanding of my sport and its issues has shifted. I came into this thinking that it would be simple. They're either doping or they're not, perhaps influenced by my own love of the sport for its peace and its serenity. I imagined there was a kind of purity I could reach, a clarity. But I was naive. The truth is more nuanced. There's a legal definition of doping and a moral one. It's about perspective. And as Thalia said, maybe free diving was about sunsets and dolphins for me. And for them it's clearly about something else, something I don't identify with. As I prepared to write these final episodes, a new scandal erupted in our small sport. Another sign that all is not well, that this is a community at a crossroads. At the CMAS World Championships in Mitakas in September, there were three reported cases of decompression illness. That's when inert gases like nitrogen form bubbles in the blood. A Russian diver called Andrey Matvenko suffered a blackout after an attempted dive to 126 meters. It led to severe neurological complications. CMAS stated that they acted in accordance with their safety protocols. But divers continue to ask serious, urgent questions of the regulator. Three weeks later, at the ADA World Championships in Limassol, a line was set 10 metres too deep for a training dive. Luckily, the diver turned early this time. But the same critical error had been made in a Pre competition in 2015 by the same organiser that time, French diver Guillem Neri attempted a world record dive, 2100 and 29 metres. He unknowingly descended to 139 meters, resulting in a deep blackout and squeeze. He subsequently retired from competition. It's clear the people who make the rules in our sport, the people who are meant to ensure the athlete's safety, they're failing. If I had my rose tinted glasses on, I'd suggest that those rule setters and the athletes at the the top of the sport need to get out of the trenches, gather in a room, set aside their egos and agree on one way forward to prioritise the safety and integrity of their sport. Because one thing's for sure, dives will keep getting deeper, risks will keep getting exponentially bigger, and the sport, whether you look at it with fear or with reverence, will continue to grow. And my immediate hopes are that the people who are keen to establish themselves as the heroes of our sport understand that they have a responsibility to prioritise safety over sponsorship, fairness over followers, and that the rest of us go gently into the Ocean. Because at 100 metres deep, the water won't distinguish between good and bad practice, truth or lies. It will just pull you down. Thank you for listening to Deepwater it's reported by me, Lydia Gard. The producer is Garry Marshall. Music supervision by Carla Patella. Sound design by Rowan Bishop. Podcast artwork by Lola Williams. Fact checking by Katie Gunning and the executive producer is Basha Cummings.

[Garry Marshall]

Hello, it's Gary here. I'm the producer of Deep Water. You're hearing from me today because we have a house. Notice you might have seen some changes to our feeds. And that's because we're now bringing our Tortoise Investigate series to you from our new home, the Observer. It's the world's oldest Sunday newspaper where you can listen to and read incredible journalism every day, seven days a week. If you want to hear more of our investigations, you can listen to previous series right here on Tortoise Investigates from the Observer. And if you'd like to access the best of the observer, you can become a subscriber by subscribing. You get exclusive early access to our investigations, premium food and puzzle newsletters, exclusive offers from our partner Mubi, and much, much more. If you'd like to find out more and subscribe, just visit observer.co.uk subscribe thank you for listening.

[Nadia Gard]

G'.

[Vitamir Maricic]

Day.

[Tony and Ryan]

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[Paige Desorbo]

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[Tony and Ryan]

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[Paige Desorbo]

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[Tony and Ryan]

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[Paige Desorbo]

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[Tony and Ryan]

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[Paige Desorbo]

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[Tony and Ryan]

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