In the bag | Deep Water Ep3

Summary

Deep Water | Tortoise Investigates

Episode 3: In the Bag — November 25, 2025

Host: The Observer
Reported by: Lydia Gard

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Episode Overview

Episode three of Deep Water dives headfirst into the fraught world of competitive freediving and a dramatic doping scandal at the heart of the sport. Lydia Gard investigates what happened when Will Trubridge, a record-holding freediver and event organizer, took it upon himself to confront persistent rumors of doping — especially allegations targeting top Croatian athletes. The episode traces the tense sting operation at Vertical Blue 2023, explores competing regulatory bodies’ responses, and exposes how deep divisions and unresolved questions linger in the freediving community.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Vertical Blue under Scrutiny

• Will Trubridge’s Role: Established as one of the world’s leading freedivers and the Vertical Blue competition organizer, Will is “part of the establishment” and commands significant authority (02:31–03:20).
• Doping Rumors: Persistent suspicions point to Croatian divers Petar Klovar and Vitomir Maričić as likely abusers of performance enhancing drugs, specifically benzodiazepines (benzos) (06:10–07:16).

2. Rewriting the Rules and Planning the Sting

• Policy Update: In January, Will updates Vertical Blue’s anti-doping policy to explicitly include benzodiazepines, despite their not being on the WADA list (03:58–04:40).

• Decision for Direct Action: Will decides to lead a surprise luggage search at the airport — a move he calls “a really tough decision” (04:40–05:03).

  “We had realized that the existing strategies, the existing testing in freediving wasn’t sufficient to prevent doping from happening.”
  — Will Trubridge [03:46]

3. The Luggage Search (09:14–14:05)

• Execution: Will, accompanied by police, confronts the Croatians and conducts the search at a police station.

• What’s Found: Numerous pharmaceuticals, notably several types and strengths of benzodiazepines and furosemide, a WADA-prohibited diuretic (10:32–11:05).

• Atmosphere: Tense, with Croatians suspicious; Sanda Dalaja, a Croatian diver, objects to Will secretly recording audio (12:16–12:28).

• Ramifications: Will feels this is a “historic moment,” expecting significant fallout (10:49–11:05).

  “There’s probably more pharmaceuticals in their luggage than I’ve used or had in my possession in my entire life. And that’s not a hyperbole.”
  — Will Trubridge [10:32]

4. Aftermath and Community Fallout

• Evidence Goes Public: Will uploads the finds to the Vertical Blue YouTube channel, which Lydia deems “an extremely unorthodox maverick move” (14:05–15:01).

• Mixed Reactions: Some applaud Will and Vertical Blue; others decry him as “judge, jury and executioner” (15:21–16:37).

  “If your goal is to uphold the principles of fair game and clean sport, well, those principles apply to everyone, including you.”
  — Lydia Gard [16:37]

• Urine Tests: Croatian divers’ tests come back negative, though they remain silent on possessing the substances (16:24).

5. Institutional Response: Divided Authorities, Confusion, and Inertia

• AIDA’s Inaction: Despite documentation, AIDA (the sport’s main governing body) takes little concrete action, appoints a new anti-doping officer who downplays benzodiazepines as non-doping (19:15–21:11).

• CMAS’s Ban: The rival governing body CMAS considers the Croatians’ actions “totally unfair” and issues a 6-month suspension and fines for “ethical violations,” not for doping per se (21:11–25:00).

  “We want to declare that in our competition, in spite of sport, competition is not possible to use any substances. This is the aim. And if you use benzodiazepine, you can go to the other organization to dive or you can stop.”
  — Anna Arzhanova, President of CMAS [25:00]

6. Personal Testimonies: Conflicting Perspectives

• Will’s Justification: Puts himself in Croatian divers’ shoes, claims he would “be ecstatic” if such anti-doping steps were taken if innocent (17:48–18:52).

• Thibaut Guinness’s Account: French diver recalls witnessing Petar Klovar taking Valium before a 100m+ dive, expressing concern for safety more than fairness (30:00–31:18).

• Doubt and Disillusion: Lydia and others ponder if the sport can ever be seen as “clean,” given persistent rumors, the abundance of pharmaceuticals, and mixed regulatory enforcement (26:27–28:12).

  “Does anybody actually believe this sport is clean? I would say the answer has to be no. And so if it’s no, who is cheating? Clearly a prime candidate would be someone who’s carrying a suitcase full of drugs.”
  — Lydia’s Coach [26:55]

7. Ongoing Division and Unresolved Questions

• Freediving’s Fork in the Road: The split between AIDA and CMAS, ongoing lack of clarity about what constitutes doping, and the normalization of benzodiazepine use form an existential threat to the sport’s reputation and Olympic dreams (25:00–26:27).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Emotional Weight of Action:

  “In the end, it fell on my shoulders to make it happen. It was a really tough decision, to be honest.”
  — Will Trubridge [02:23]

• On the Evidence Discovered:

  “There’s probably more pharmaceuticals in their luggage than I’ve used or had in my entire life. And that’s not a hyperbole.”
  — Will Trubridge [10:32]

• On the Public Disclosure:

  “It seems like an extremely unorthodox maverick move to share documentary evidence of an ongoing case. As a journalist, I’m horrified. As a diver with an interest in fair play and clean sport. I’m intrigued.”
  — Lydia Gard [14:05]

• On Divided Leadership:

  “How can two bodies governing one sport have such polarized views of what’s safe and sensible for its athletes?”
  — Lydia Gard [21:45]

• On the State of Freediving:

  “The way I look at things now is that was two years ago. Does anybody actually believe this sport is clean? I would say the answer has to be no.”
  — Lydia’s Coach [26:55]

• On Witnessing Drug Use Firsthand:

  “All I can say is I’ve seen some people clearly with my own eyes taking benzodiazepine before deep dives.”
  — Thibaut Guinness [30:25]

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:23 — Will Trubridge describes the burden of leading the anti-doping effort.
• 06:10 — Introduction of the Croatian divers at the center of allegations.
• 09:14–10:49 — Details and atmosphere of the luggage search.
• 11:05 — Benzodiazepines and other drugs found.
• 14:05 — Evidence made public online.
• 16:37 — Community response, including accusations against Will.
• 19:15–21:11 — AIDA and CMAS announce contrasting policies and actions.
• 25:00–26:27 — Lydia examines the impact on the sport; CMAS issues disciplinary actions.
• 30:00 — Testimony from Thibaut Guinness about witnessing Valium use.
• 32:37 — Episode preview and reflections on the lengths competitors will go to win.

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Final Thoughts

Deep Water’s third episode immerses listeners in the politics, loyalties, and unresolved ethical dilemmas surrounding doping in freediving. The episode is a gripping account of one man’s quest to “save his sport,” the community’s divided allegiances, and the frustrating inertia of sports authorities. It leaves us with lingering questions about transparency, fairness, and the true limits — ethical and physical — of extreme human pursuit.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[Will Trubridge]

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[Lydia Gard]

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[Will Trubridge]

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[Lydia Gard]

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[Will Trubridge]

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[Lydia Gard]

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[Will Trubridge]

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[Lydia Gard]

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[Will Trubridge]

In the end, it fell on my shoulders to make it happen. It was a really tough decision, to be honest.

[Lydia Gard]

It's 2023 and Will Trubridge has been free diving his entire life, competing for more than 20 years. Now in his early 40s, he's part of the establishment and and as one of the most titled freedivers in the world, he has a strong voice in the community. He's from New Zealand, but he's been based in Long island in the Bahamas for years. It's the home of Vertical Blue, the world's most exclusive freediving competition, the one at the centre of the doping scandal. And Will's the guy who runs it. He's hosting 39 athletes who've signed up to compete, including the Croatians. The event will be live streamed to a crowd of up to 100,000 spectators. Some of the biggest brands in the business, like Garmin, are sponsors. In the build up to the opening ceremony, he's doing his usual preparation, but this year he's planning something a little different that only a handful of people know about. Remember that Facebook messenger group that Donnie told us about, where the athletes had been talking about acting on the doping rumours? Well, Will's an instrumental member and he's decided to put his head above the parapet.

[Will Trubridge]

We had realized that the existing strategies, the existing testing in freediving wasn't sufficient to prevent doping from happening.

[Lydia Gard]

Vertical Blue is a private competition, but it's being officiated by ada, one of the two governing bodies. Not yet a WADA signatory, they do follow the same anti doping rules. ADA's website says that while organisers have responsibilities regarding logistics, safety, personnel and setup, they do not have the authority to change the core competition rules or create their own, as this would compromise the integrity and official status of the competition. Yet in January, Will updates his doping policy for Vertical Blue to include benzodiazepines, the drugs believed to be performance enhancing. And he comes up with a plan to catch the athletes. He may be using them.

[Will Trubridge]

It was a really tough decision to do the luggage search. I felt like it was the only way because it would be so unexpected, but it was by no means easy. Initially, I'd asked other members of my team and none of them were capable or willing to take this role. I understood afterwards why Will's approach is.

[Lydia Gard]

To his mind, justified. He wants to save his sport, uphold its values. But the road he takes to get there is off the beaten track and that road does not take him where he expects it to. I'm Lydia Gard and from Tortoise Investigates and the Observer. This is deep water.

[Will Trubridge]

Foreign.

[Lydia Gard]

In the bag.

[Will Trubridge]

In July of 2023, I held the world record in unassisted, no fins, freediving, which is where you don't get to use any propulsive equipment of any kind and you cannot use the rope itself to pull yourself down and up. So you're just swimming with your hands and feet as deep as possible. I see it as pure human aquatic potential, because it's just the Human body unencumbered. And at that time, I held the record at 102 metres.

[Lydia Gard]

Will Trubridge has held this record since 2008. No fins is the purist's discipline. A dive to 100 meters takes around 4 minutes and 15 seconds. No equipment, nothing to assist you down and back to the surface. But a modified breaststroke and a lung full of air, that requires exceptional mental and physical strength. Only a handful of people in the world dived past 80 metres in this punishing discipline, and only two were in world record territory at that time. One of them was Petar Clover, the Croatian diver at the centre of the doping rumours.

[Will Trubridge]

I mean, he was obviously chasing the world record in no films, and that had been his goal at that point. I don't know if he'd come very close to it. There'd been rumors that he had done 100 meters in training or something around that depth, but in competition, I think the deepest he'd gone was maybe 93 or so. Coming to the Bahamas, where the conditions are so good, I'm sure he would have been able to go deeper. That was definitely kind of on the radar.

[Lydia Gard]

So what do you say to the people who argued that you just wanted him out of the competition because he was after your record?

[Will Trubridge]

Yeah, it's an interesting question. And if that was the case, then maybe I would have tested or targeted someone else more heavily, like Alexei, because Alexei was closer. He had also announced an intention to attempt that record and he.

[Lydia Gard]

It's standard practice in this sport to organize a competition and also compete in it. I can think of lots of examples in different locations, different countries. According to ADA policy, it's not considered a conflict of interest. Yet, just days away from the competition starting, Will quietly withdraws. As an athlete, Will sees himself as defending the freediving community from imposters. Imposters who some divers believe are stealing medals and records from the community. And his sights are set on two Croatian athletes in particular, PETA Clover and Vitomir Maricic. Had you been tipped off by anybody that they might be in possession of drugs at vb?

[Will Trubridge]

Of course, we'd been tipped off by everyone in the freediving world that they were using drugs and would probably bring them to the Bahamas. We'd heard countless anecdotes of people who had seen them using benzodiazepines and other drugs. So there's all of that, a mountain of evidence, and all of it was anecdotal, so nothing would stand up, obviously, in a court of law, because it's not black and White. It's not a photograph of a substance that was present in their luggage. It was for this reason that we conducted the luggage search. So the plan was to meet them at the airport and to asked them if they consented to a luggage search, as per Vertical Blue anti doping policy.

[Lydia Gard]

The Croatian divers land after a long haul flight to find Will at the airport with an armed police officer. He tells them that he plans to search their luggage.

[Will Trubridge]

We're going to try and make this as quick as possible.

[Lydia Gard]

They agree and choose to carry out the search at a nearby police station, where it's a bit cooler than a baggage check. There's aircon in the room, but otherwise it's pretty basic. Some tables and chairs, a sofa. Witimir Petar and a female Croatian diver, Sanda Dalaia, are there. Sanda is coached by Vitamir too, and they have all travelled together. There's also a Mexican diver, Pepe Salcedo, who's been selected to be searched. At one point, the divers asked for some water, but when they're handed a bottle, they reject it. They say the seal is broken and they don't trust that it hasn't been interfered with.

[Will Trubridge]

Yeah, it was a little bit of a pressure cooker situation in that room because I could tell that the Croatians were becoming increasingly more worried and upset.

[Lydia Gard]

It all sounds civil, but there's an undercurrent of suspicion. Will and the police officer start to empty the luggage onto tables. And amongst the clothes and the toiletries, he finds something else.

[Will Trubridge]

There's probably more pharmaceuticals in their luggage than I've used or had in my possession in my entire life. And that's not a hyperbole.

[Lydia Gard]

He photographs each blister pack, most with pills missing. What was your overarching feeling during that time?

[Will Trubridge]

I could tell that this was like a historic moment. And so there's, I guess you could say, like a version of some kind of excitement of just knowing that there was probably going to be significant ramifications of this if we were finding in real time substances that are banned in their luggage.

[Lydia Gard]

Among the various medications are painkillers and antibiotics and several types and strengths of benzodiazepines. Oh, and furosemide, a diuretic used to clear the system of other substances fast. That one is on the WADA prohibited list.

[Will Trubridge]

So out of these drugs, the ones that worried us the most were obviously the benzodiazepines, because of the sheer quantity and volume and diversity of different types that they had in possession, indicated that they were using them extensively. As PEDs.

[Lydia Gard]

These are the sedatives I've been talking about. Not banned by water, but widely believed to be beneficial in freediving. Will has found what he's looking for. Enough evidence to his mind to keep the Croatians from competing, perhaps for years. As Will continues his search, the female diver Sander notices that he's using his phone to record their conversation. One thing is like openly opening the bags. The officers are here, they bring the medications, they analyze them. And one thing is secretly that I.

[Will Trubridge]

See that your app store starts having the.

[Lydia Gard]

The audio and then you put it away like there's something weird about it. Don't you agree?

[Will Trubridge]

I'm using the phone the whole time to take photos, to record everything.

[Lydia Gard]

Yeah, but it's recording sound. Recording sound is a bit. It's kind of. It sounds illegal. The atmosphere becomes tense. I've listened to that audio several times and something really strikes me. Will appears nervous, hurried, and at a certain point, very uncomfortable, while PETA is quiet and Vitamir is, well, casual, almost sarcastic. They are in a room with the competition organizer and armed police officers, and they're carrying drugs, including one substance on the WADA list. According to the WADA rules, just having them in your possession as an athlete or as a coach, in or out of competition, is an automatic ban. Yet Witimir is incredibly calm and in control. At one point, while Sander is talking to Will about what her medications are for, someone is whistling in the background. It's a well known song. We're the Champions. William, you base your appearance and credibility by saying that you're the deepest human on earth, which you are not. But you have a world record, which.

[Will Trubridge]

He can take, and you can influence.

[Lydia Gard]

Him not doing it here.

[Will Trubridge]

How can I influence that other than documenting what you can flip something in.

[Lydia Gard]

You can make him stressed or nervous.

[Will Trubridge]

We've had police watching and doing the searches. Yeah, but it doesn't matter. You're creating stress. You're in complications. Why don't you have someone professional do that?

[Lydia Gard]

A couple of days later, I'm packing for a trip to Greece when I get a message from Dave Mellor, my coach. He tells me that the evidence of the search has been shared on the Vertical Blue YouTube channel. Sure enough, images of the blister packs, clips of the audio and an official statement from Will have been uploaded for the world to see and interpret. My initial reaction is surprise. It seems like an extremely unorthodox maverick move to share documentary evidence of an ongoing case. As a journalist, I'm horrified. As a diver with an interest in fair play and clean sport. I'm intrigued. There appears to finally be proof. What was the reaction in the freediving community to what you'd uncovered?

[Will Trubridge]

The reaction was mixed, but it was overwhelmingly on the side of Vertical Blue. At that stage, we received a lot of support, a lot of acclaim for what we'd done and for bringing this into the light.

[Lydia Gard]

Petar posts a story on Instagram in which he says, we are athletes that are clean, have always been, and this will all soon be clarified. An open letter follows on July 12th calling for the Croatians to be banned from competition under the World Anti Doping Code for the possession of furosemide, the diuretic. The letter is aimed at the two governing bodies in freediving, ADA and cmas. ADA is Freediving specific, founded primarily as an education system. CMAS is the World Underwater Federation, a much larger competition body. It oversees several underwater activities, one of which is free diving. The message of the petition is clear. Whether or not benzos are on the wadi list, they're no more welcome at the party than the people who bought them in. 726 people sign it. It's a fairly large number given the size of the sport and the fact that most recreational divers wouldn't have a clue this was going on.

[Will Trubridge]

At the same time, there's a lot of criticism, and obviously the Croatians themselves were posting on social media and denying everything and criticizing Vertical Blue. And they had their supporters, too.

[Lydia Gard]

The supporters of the Croatians are angry. Mud is slung. Will is called judge, jury and executioner. He's accused of petty rivalry, of tackling the problem by instigating a media trial, trying to damage their reputations. Some divers even comment on his social media post, saying that their names are on the petition even though they haven't actually signed it. And that's uncomfortable, because if your goal is to uphold the principles of fair game and clean sport, well, those principles apply to everyone, including you. After the bag search, the Croatians are taken off to perform a urine test. The results come back negative. There is no evidence of prohibited substances in their urine, and they post on social media that they are clean, but they make no comment about what they were carrying. Vitamir calls the allegations untrue and unfounded. Post event. Petar and Vitamin have denied using performance enhancing drugs. What do you say to that?

[Will Trubridge]

I guess you're right. They have in their social media post that they then deleted. They denied using performance enhancing drugs at any time, but they have never given any kind of an explanation for why they're using Benzodiazepines. And I was thinking about it and putting myself in their shoes. If I had shown up in an event, let's say I've traveled 20 hours to get to this event and I'm sweaty and tired and cranky, and I get there and I find, surprise, surprise, they want to search my luggage. And putting myself in that situation, I realized that I would be overjoyed by that. Like, as tired as I am, I would be ecstatic that an organizer, an event is taking those kind of measures in anti doping. When I put myself in their shoes and realized that and saw how their reaction was completely diametrically opposed for that, it made me realize that, I mean, the proof is in the pudding, basically. That compounds on what we found in their luggage.

[Lydia Gard]

The justification they later used for carrying a banned diuretic is that they had it in case of life threatening injury. It's a small island with limited healthcare. It can help with recovery in cases of serious lung squeeze. But they say they've never used it yet. In the photo of the blister pack, there's a pill missing. They claim to have a prescription.

[Will Trubridge]

So with ada, we sent a copy of the doping report, which included everything that had transpired, as well as the substances found.

[Lydia Gard]

Will expects ada, as the officiating body of the competition, to report the possession of furosemide to WADA. But unlike CMAs, ADA isn't a WADA signatory. And so, despite being caught with that prohibited substance, WADA do nothing. This is not how Will is expecting things to go. Suddenly, he's losing control of the narrative.

[Will Trubridge]

So later, ADA publicly stated that they would investigate the case.

[Lydia Gard]

And then nothing. They go quiet. Several athletes use social media to announce that they won't compete or teach ADA until they see action.

[Will Trubridge]

Later, they appointed an anti doping officer whose first order of business was basically anti anti doping.

[Lydia Gard]

In August, a month after the scandal, A Serbian professor, Dr. Nenad Dikic, is appointed as an anti doping manager. His brief to help assess and improve ADA's anti doping strategy, they publish a new anti doping webpage and plan a series of seminars.

[Will Trubridge]

His first kind of month or two of business was primarily in defense of the Croatians who had been found to be doping. And Vertical Blue case is interesting because a local organizer gave himself a right to do doping control and to do police research without legal warrant for that, without having, how to say, involvement of the people who are doing that professionally.

[Lydia Gard]

The new AIDA anti doping manager, Professor Dickich, speaks publicly on the topic and states that the use of Benzos doesn't constitute doping.

[Will Trubridge]

You have in social networks so many different kind of posts where the guys are claiming that benzodiazepines are benzos are doping and they are not.

[Lydia Gard]

But with the same information available, CMAS make a statement.

[Will Trubridge]

Following the recent developments at the ADA International Freediving Event in the Bahamas, we were the only ones to take immediate action. We have resolved to discontinue further cooperation with AIDA. We will increase the efforts of CMAs, strengthen our commitment to promote freediving under CMAS aegis of clean, safe Sport Governance until it's possible for its inclusion in the Olympic Games.

[Lydia Gard]

As a WADA signatory, CMAS doesn't have the jurisdiction to classify benzos as doping, but they do publicly state that it is totally unfair as assimilated into a doping practice to enhance performance. There are absolute reasons to use benzodiazepines only for strict, duly evaluated medical reasons. This is also an occasion to remember that no doping strategy has a place in the CMAS family. It makes me wonder, how can two bodies governing one sport have such polarised views of what's safe and sensible for its athletes? The very fact that there are two governing bodies in the first place is confusing. Each host world championships and have separate rankings. To my mind, that just fuels the fetish for records and titles, but it doesn't help the sport. And when governing bodies radically disagree on fundamental policies like doping and safety, that speaks to a way more serious dysfunction, one that prioritises ego, personal or institutional over harmony. And so I reach out to both ADA and cmas and Anna Arjanova, the president of cmas, is the first to get back to me, it's simply dangerous. And unfortunately, the people who maybe use this, they don't understand. Especially now when we try to promote sport, to make it healthy sport, to push it in Olympic Games, to do these things. And the people don't understand that if now we have this massive using of this kind of stuff, stuff of different stuff, it will kill sport. It will never grow because of this. It's killing sport. The doping is killing sport. CMAs, despite being a water signatory, decides to adopt their own protective measures. They decide that the drugs are potentially dangerous in our sport and ban them. They use ada's perceived inaction as a way to invalidate them. We want to declare that in our competition, in spite of sport, competition is not possible to use any substances. This is the aim. And if you use benzene as a penis, you can go to the other organization to dive or you can stop and they ban the Croatians from competing under seamas for six months, fining them each €5,000, but for an ethical violation, not a doping one. It's something, but it's not a lot. When you did ban the Croatians and gave them their fine, how did they respond to that? I think you can ask them. Of course. We received the letter from lawyers. For a while now, I've wanted to talk to PETA and Vitamir, but I've been waiting. First, I wanted to know as much as I possibly could about the circumstances leading to this process point. I also wanted to speak to people who know them personally to get a gauge on who they are and how they might respond. You've no need to be nervous, honestly, don't worry. So I contact people who know them, train with them, dive with them. Some are happy to talk. One person who was close to them at the time of the Vertical Blue scandal told me that they had never heard Petar so upset. He was devastated, they said. And when I asked them if Petar was doping for depth, they said, no way, absolutely not. But another diver, too afraid to be named, says that this cohort is a bit like a cult, that Vitamir is a snake oil salesman. I'm warned to be careful not to be taken in by his charms. I'm told he's extremely manipulative, and now I really want to speak to him. Since the doping scandal broke in July 23, the Croatians have gone from strength to strength. Vitimir and Petar took first and second place overall in the ADA World Championships just two months after the scandal. They're currently first and third in the overall ADA ranking. And this year, petar took that 17 year old record of Will's by diving 1 meter deeper. Speaking of Will, do you think that what happened at Vertical Blue has had a negative impact or a positive impact.

[Will Trubridge]

On Vertical Blue and on him, on Will personally? Probably. I think it's fair to say that he didn't come out of it very well.

[Lydia Gard]

When I was in Greece to speak with my coach, Mela, I tested this on him. He knows and likes Will, but the reality is that the doping scandal still divides opinion. There's still no resolution. Can you talk us through why?

[Will Trubridge]

Well, it's probably the way it was handled. I mean, like, Will caught them. Whether it was fair or not, he caught them. So that's a fact. Yeah, maybe their privacy was crossed. So that is what the focus went on. The focus went on that Will did this wrong. He shouldn't have done this. It's an invasion of privacy. And yes, you know, there was a big media, Facebook, Instagram, war with people saying, you know, you should respect people's rights. And of course all of that is true, which is why Will came out of it probably worse than they did. But you know, I don't forget that the number one fact is that they had suitcase full of drugs and one banned one. The way I look at things now is that was two years ago. Does anybody actually believe this sport is clean? I would say the answer has to be no. And so if it's no, who is cheating? Clearly a prime candidate would be someone who's carrying a suitcase full of drugs. It's pretty black and white for me. Although they said they weren't using them, they admitted they were carrying them. So like how, how are you going to believe somebody like that, you know.

[Lydia Gard]

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[Will Trubridge]

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[Lydia Gard]

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[Will Trubridge]

Give it a [e-mail] Upfront payment of.

[Lydia Gard]

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[Will Trubridge]

Wishing you a very happy half off.

[Lydia Gard]

Holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means half day.

[Will Trubridge]

Yeah. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Lydia Gard]

Of $45 for a three month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow. 135 gigabytes of network's busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com all right, remember, the machine knows if you're lying.

[Will Trubridge]

First statement, Carvana will give you a.

[Lydia Gard]

Real offer on your car. All online.

[Will Trubridge]

False.

[Lydia Gard]

True. Actually, you sell your car in minutes.

[Will Trubridge]

False.

[Lydia Gard]

That's gotta be true again. Carvana will pick up your car from your door or you can drop it off at one of their car vending machines. Sounds too good to be true. So true. Finally caught on.

[Will Trubridge]

Nice job. Honesty isn't just their policy, it's their entire model.

[Lydia Gard]

Sell your car today too, Carvana. Pickup fees may apply.

[Will Trubridge]

I was in a competition organized in Croatia. And this goes back to five years ago.

[Lydia Gard]

After this, Thibaut Guinness is one of the freedivers willing to talk to me. When he watched the scandal unfold on Instagram, it took him back to a moment when he was in Croatia. Vitame had invited him to train with them in the Adriatic. And it's there that he witnessed something that's really stuck with him. All I can say is I've seen some people clearly with my own eyes.

[Will Trubridge]

Taking benzodiazepine before deep dives.

[Lydia Gard]

He doesn't know what's happened since Vertical Blue, but he does know it was not an isolated incident. I saw only Petard taking it. But at the time, Vitomir Mari was his coach. They're on a boat, and Thibault sees Petar taking two Valium before a training dive.

[Will Trubridge]

And he told me, yeah, Peter has some nerves sometimes. He usually takes it in swimming pool before the dive because of his nerve. Yeah.

[Lydia Gard]

At one point, they were allegating that they never took benzodiazepine ever. And I was like, ah. I saw it with my own eyes. It came. Thibault's main issue at the time is their safety. He doesn't consider it doping. He's just shocked, concerned about the potential danger.

[Will Trubridge]

It was really not a concern about being doped or not. It was really like, do you have.

[Lydia Gard]

Any idea what it's going to do.

[Will Trubridge]

To your body at hundred meter depth?

[Lydia Gard]

Maybe, maybe not. Same. I cannot tell you.

[Will Trubridge]

But do you really want to take the risk?

[Lydia Gard]

I can't stress this enough. Freediving is beautiful and mindful, but it's also an extreme sport. There is a risk to diving deep, and there is a risk in taking benzos. But combine those two things, and those risks increase exponentially. So if it's true that there are people diving to 100 meters plus on experimental doses of sedatives, that speaks to a certain attitude. And now in 2025, there's a risk that this attitude will be normalized. And neither of the governing organizations are really able to act. Thibault's testimony doesn't prove doping, but it demonstrates a mindset around risk and safety that many free divers are not comfortable with. They're wondering about how far this ink is spreading. And while I'm interviewing an athlete, I get a WhatsApp message from another diver I've never met. It's a forwarded voice note, no context, but it's unmistakably Vitamir's voice. Coming up on episode four of Deep.

[Will Trubridge]

Water but at the end of the day, people are raw competitors that want to win and they'll do anything sometimes if they think they can get away with it.

[Lydia Gard]

You are now being very romantic about.

[Will Trubridge]

Things and I don't like it. Okay, let me remove the pink sunglasses you have. The truth eventually is going to come out.

[Lydia Gard]

Deep Water is reported by me, Lydia Gard. The producer is Garry Marshall. Music supervision and sound design by Carla Patella. Podcast artwork by Lola Williams. Fact checking by Katie Gunning. The executive producer is Basha Cummings.

[Will Trubridge]

Hello, it's Gary here. I'm the producer of Deep Water. Before I tell you a bit more about how you can listen to the rest of the series, we have a house notice you might have seen some changes to our feeds. And that's because we're now bringing our Tortoise Investigate series to you from our new home, the Observer. It's the world's oldest Sunday newspaper where you can listen to and read incredible journalism every day, seven days a week. So if you're enjoying this podcast, you can listen to all six episodes today by subscribing to observer plus on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. By subscribing, you get ad free, early access to all our investigations and never miss an episode. Thank you for listening.

[Lydia Gard]

The Observer.

[Will Trubridge]

AI is transforming customer service. It's real and it works. And with fin, we've built the number one AI agent for customer service.

[Lydia Gard]

We're seeing lots of cases where it's.

[Will Trubridge]

Solving up to 90% of real queries for real businesses. This includes the real world, complex stuff.

[Lydia Gard]

Like issuing a refund or canceling an order. And we also see it when FIN.

[Will Trubridge]

Goes up against competitors. It's top of all the performance benchmarks, top of the G2 leaderboard. And if you're not happy, we'll refund you up to a million dollars, which I think says it all. Check it out for yourself at FIN AI.

[Lydia Gard]

If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for each easy reordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Why choose a sleep number?

[Will Trubridge]

Smart Bed Can I make my sight softer? Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler Sleep Number does.

[Lydia Gard]

That cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep sleep night after night. It's our Black Friday sale recharged this season with a bundle of cozy soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base plus free premium delivery price.

[Will Trubridge]

Is higher in Alaska and Hawaii.

[Lydia Gard]

Check it out at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com today. Get it together this holiday season and make gifting easy with PURA's Black Friday sale. Take up to 30% off site wide, including beautifully curated gift sets for everyone on your list, sleek and modern diffusers for for home and car and premium long lasting single scents that make the perfect stocking stuffers. Less time shopping, more time enjoying for a limited time only at pura. Com.