The fallout | Foundling Ep 4

Summary

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Foundling | Tortoise Investigates

Episode 4: The Fallout (April 14, 2026)

Host: Lucy Greenwell | Key voices: Jess (birth daughter), Debbie (Lewis's partner), Kim (half-sister), Chloe (half-sister), Michelle Leonard (genealogist/DNA expert)

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Overview:

Theme:
This fourth episode, "The Fallout," focuses on the complex emotional and practical consequences that ripple out after Jess's discoveries about her birth parents. Having cracked the mystery of her origins through DNA testing, Jess now seeks a relationship with her biological father and half-siblings—an act that brings tumult and pain but also surprising connections. As journalist Lucy Greenwell narrates, the reverberations from Jess's search impact not just Jess herself, but entire families, dredging up old wounds and hidden truths in a profound examination of family, identity, and unintended consequences.

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Key Discussion Points

The Ripples of DNA Truth (01:28–04:18)

• Jess's Continuing Search: Jess is determined to identify her biological father after using DNA to find her birth mother, Jennifer. She suspects a man with a Germanic surname—supported by her DNA results—was likely her father.
• Cautious Approach: Jess chooses not to approach the man directly. Instead, she contacts his adult children via Facebook.
• Stakes and Warnings: Jennifer warns Jess to "let sleeping dogs lie," fearing further disruption. Jess wrestles with whether her pursuit for the truth will harm another family.

"I'm not out to break up families, and I'm sorry I was born, like, what do you want me to do?"
— Jess (Birth Daughter) | 04:18

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Making Contact: The Other Family Reacts (04:26–08:26)

• First Contact: Jess's message prompts a reply only from Adam, the eldest of Lewis’s children. He quickly deduces her intent.
• Genetic Confirmation: Jess and Adam use DNA kits from different companies, but eventually confirm Lewis is Jess’s father.

"He kind of put two and two together and asked me how old I was, and then went, 'are you actually looking for your father?'"
— Jess (Birth Daughter) | 05:16

• Reaching out to Lewis, Jess sends a cautious message. His reaction is shock but not denial.

"I first messaged him... I said, hi, it's Jess. Bit of a crazy day all around. I'm sure it's come as a shock to you... He replied and said, 'it's knocked me sideways. I just don't know what to say at the moment... but it's so nice to hear from you.'"
— Jess (Birth Daughter) | 08:02

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DNA: Hope, Pitfalls, and Hard Realities (08:26–13:36)

• Genealogist's Guidance: DNA specialist Michelle Leonard joins to explain how DNA is interpreted and warns against expecting straightforward relationships or happy endings.
• Right to Know vs. Right for Relationship: Michelle underscores the distinction between discovering your biological origins and having an actual relationship with newfound family.

"The right to know is not the same as the right to a relationship. The parent has the right to say, I don't want to be contacted. I don't want to have a relationship."
— Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert) | 10:16

• Complex Jigsaw Puzzle: Building family trees through DNA is described as piecing together a battered, incomplete puzzle—familial patterns do emerge, but rarely perfectly.

"These kinds of cases are like giant jigsaw puzzles. However, they're old jigsaw puzzles. All the pieces are a bit, you know, worn, there’s bits missing. The box is long gone..."
— Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert) | 12:01

• Outcomes Vary Profoundly: Happy endings are possible, but so are "terribly, terribly sad outcomes" (13:14).

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Debbie’s Perspective: Shock, Betrayal, and Reconstruction (13:36–29:10)

• Debbie Recounts Lewis’ Confession: The revelation is devastating for Debbie, Lewis's long-time partner, whose relationship was already in decline.
• Family's Emotional Disarray: The new reality wounds Debbie, who realizes Jess is as old as her own son with Lewis, suggesting overlapping relationships.
• Children React: The family's elders, particularly Kim and Adam, are deeply shocked but believe Lewis had no idea Jess existed.

"I did feel like smashing glass over his head, to be honest, but... he knew that I couldn't kick off in pub car park..."
— Debbie (Lewis's Partner) | 15:51

• Tracing the Past: Debbie tries to reconstruct what happened in the 1980s. She learns about Jennifer (who she doesn’t recall meeting) and tries to make sense of Lewis’s account of a casual, hidden relationship.

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Chloe’s Story: Mental Health Struggles and the Impact of Discovery (27:16–31:42)

• Chloe’s Vulnerability: Chloe, Jess’s half-sister, has long struggled with mental health, including trauma from an assault and repeated suicide attempts.
• Family on Alert: The family adapts to safeguard Chloe, even installing alarms on doors. Counselling has been her lifeline.

"You know, like the alarms that old people have on the doors, there were stages where we had alarms so that if she got up at night and opened that door, we'd hear it, so we'd get up."
— Kim (Half-Sister) | 30:32

• Jess’s Support: When Jess and Chloe meet, they connect over vulnerability. Jess learns immediately how central mental health is to Chloe’s life, their conversations covering coping mechanisms and mutual struggles.

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Small Joys: Sibling Connection Amidst Turmoil (18:55–21:41)

• Kim and Chloe: Despite the surrounding chaos, Jess finds profound connection with her two half-sisters, Kim and Chloe, after bonding via WhatsApp and then meeting in person.
• Magic in Kinship: This first meeting, full of laughter and warmth, gives Jess a true sense of belonging.

"We just had the same thoughts, the same interests, everything. And so you're like, okay, we didn't look like each other. But that connection was much deeper than just looks because we came away going, God, we're so alike."
— Jess (Birth Daughter) | 20:43

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The Fallout’s Ultimate Twist: Jennifer and Chloe (33:08–36:06)

• A Coincidence Too Unlikely: Debbie realizes that Chloe’s trusted mental health nurse is named Jennifer—the same name as Jess's birth mother.
• A Hidden, Painful Overlap: Debbie suspects, then confirms, it is indeed the same Jennifer. The woman who had abandoned Jess, and whose secret arrival has so disrupted the family, has also been acting as Chloe’s mental health nurse, with neither woman initially aware of the full connection.

"She must have known who Chloe were. There's no way that she didn't. I 110% believe that she knew Chloe were."
— Debbie (Lewis's Partner) | 36:06

• A Question of Ethics and Boundaries: The revelation leaves the family feeling violated and betrayed, especially for Chloe and Jess, raising serious concerns about trust, boundaries, and professional ethics.

"Knowing exactly who she is and to continue to counsel that, even though knowing that's a conflict of interest, knowing she's had a baby with her dad, like, it's just awful, honestly. What are you thinking doing that?"
— Jess (Birth Daughter) | 35:46

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Lucy Greenwell’s Imagery: "When I think back to the day Jess did her DNA test... I picture a large stone dropping into still black water. Splash. A circle of ripples expanding outwards. And those waves, they've traveled quite far now, disturbing the water's calm surface. And they're still spreading." | 01:56

• Debbie on The Impact: "It was like an hand grenade in his life." | 24:14

• Michelle Leonard’s Sobering Note: "Just because you find family doesn't mean you get to keep them close." | 10:38

• Jess’s Heartfelt Admission: "You go through life wanting to be accepted and wanting to be loved because you've got this little seed in your brain. Right from when you were born that you're not loved and you're not wanted." | 18:05

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:28–04:18 | Jess prepares to search for her biological father; Jennifer’s warning | | 04:26–05:34 | Jess reaches out to her potential half-siblings via Facebook | | 08:02–08:26 | Jess’s first text and response from Lewis, her birth father | | 09:03–13:36 | Michelle Leonard on DNA, family trees, and complex outcomes | | 13:36–18:05 | Debbie’s account of Lewis’s confession and family impact | | 18:55–21:41 | Jess’s joyful meeting with Kim and Chloe, finding real kinship | | 27:16–31:42 | Chloe’s mental health struggles and coping mechanisms | | 33:08–36:06 | Discovery that Jennifer (the mother) is also Chloe’s counselor |

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Tone & Language

• Investigative, empathetic, intimate: The narration maintains a sensitive, probing tone, balancing journalistic rigor with emotional nuance. The speakers are candid, often raw; trauma and trust are touched on delicately, without melodrama.

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Conclusion

"The Fallout" is a powerful exploration of what happens after long-held secrets surface, and how DNA tests can change far more than your family tree—they can upend lives and relationships, posing hard questions about privacy, identity, and the limits of reconnection. The episode closes on a cliffhanger: the next chapter will grapple with Jennifer’s dual role in the family’s life, and whether the wounds created can ever be healed.

Transcript

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[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Tortoise investigates. Do I think about going to see these guys? I mean, this is kind of act two of this strange story, isn't it, where I'm in a taxi with my producer Katie and we're on our way to meet one of Jess, newly discovered half sisters and her mother, Kim and Debbie have experienced something really just like this terrible, terrible loss. And we're trying to piece together how it came to be. From speaking to them on the phone, I know how they're angry. They're really angry. The stakes feel quite high because they're hoping we'll help them find answers. Yeah, exactly. When I think back to the day Jess did her DNA test five years ago, now I picture a large stone dropping into still black water. Splash. A circle of ripples expanding outwards. And those waves, they've traveled quite far now, disturbing the water's calm surface. And they're still spreading. Jess DNA sample has already linked her to her birth mother. Now Jess is using the technology to go in search of her biological Father, too. This time, Jess is hoping the DNA will confirm a lead. She's been given the name of a man, a man Jennifer was in a relationship with around the time Jess would have been conceived. So the timing stacks up. His unusual Germanic surname also stacks up, because Jess's DNA results suggest some of her genes come from that part of the world. So Jess is pretty confident she's nailed this, but she also wants to tread carefully.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

And I left it for a bit, though, because I thought, okay, I found them. I know they're there. And I said, but I just need to figure out how I'm going to approach this.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Particularly because she's had a warning from Jennifer. Let sleeping dogs lie. A message urging her to stop asking questions, to call off her search for her biological father. And Jess tells me she understands the risk that answers may come at a cost. She knows those ripples are about to disturb the calm surface of another family. And what she's learned from contacting her birth mother is that she can't control what happens next. But she still has this void at the start of her life, and she still wants answers.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

I'm not out to break up families, and I'm sorry I was born, like, what do you want me to do?

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Jess gives it a few weeks before going on Facebook. And rather than contacting her possible father, she messages his five adult children. They all seem to live in the same town as their father, the same town where Jennifer grew up. It's a couple of hundred miles north of Jess. Must be so surreal to be looking on Facebook at the profiles of people and you have. There's a secret that is gonna burst into their lives.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

I was like. I kept looking at the pictures, thinking, how on earth is this gonna work? Because, like, the last thing I want to do is break up.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

She keeps the message deliberately vague. She tells them she's researching her ancestry and she thinks they may be able to help. Only one of them replies, the eldest, Adam. And straight away, he seems to know exactly what Jess is looking for.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

He kind of put two and two together and asked me how old I was, and then went, are you actually looking for your father? And I thought. I just. I didn't want to outright say that because. So I was like, well, I'm just kind of looking on that side. And he was like, but you're about the right age.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Adam's into family history, so he's already done his DNA, but he's used a different company, not the ancestry site that Jess is on. So now Jess orders a new kit. Once again, a small vial of her saliva is sealed and mailed in a laboratory somewhere. Technicians in white coats extract and decode the data. As Jess waits for the results, that warning from her birth mother, Jennifer, plays on her mind. Please have some consideration for the impact another search could have on another family. Surely Jennifer knows that Jess is bound to search for her father. So why is she trying to put her off? Why is Jennifer so anxious about Jess search? These days, Jennifer's no longer that frightened young woman. She's a respected figure, a woman with a reputation, a livelihood, a carefully built life. Is she worried that this second DNA test threatens that in some way as Jess circle widens and draws in more relatives? Jess doesn't like being compared to her mother, but I think this compulsion to find things out makes her similar to Jennifer. Remember how Jennifer's curiosity led her, someone who didn't want to be found, to take a risk and reply to that Facebook message from Jess Years ago, Jennifer could have ignored it, but she didn't. And that desire to know things from the shadow of anonymity, well, it wasn't a one off. Is this their street?

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

Yeah, this is the street.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

I'm Lucy Greenwell and from Tortoise Investigates and the observer. This is Foundling Episode four the Fallout. It doesn't take long for the DNA results to come back. They confirm, just as Jess suspected, Lewis is her father. That man in the blurry photos Jess was shown taken in the pub back in the late 80s. So you text your birth dad when you know who it is. You've got a little bit of information from his eldest son, your half. You found half brother about him. What do you say to him in that text?

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

I first messaged him on the 18th of August of 2022 and I said, hi, it's Jess. Bit of a crazy day all around. I'm sure it's come as a shock to you, Jess, he replied and said, it's knocked me sideways. I just don't know what to say at the moment. I'm sure you understand, but it's so nice to hear from you.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

This new connection, like so much of the story, hinges on DNA. And I want to be sure of something. It's not that DNA can lie, but it's entirely possible to misread what it's telling you in your results. A close match tells you how much DNA you share with a person. It doesn't say what relation they are, because it can't. You share the exact same proportion of DNA 25% with someone who's your nephew, your uncle, or indeed your half sibling. So there's room for mistakes.

[Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert)]

My name is Michelle Leonard. I am a professional genealogist DNA detective. I wear a lot of hats, but primarily I focus and specialize on solving mysteries, especially complex mysteries, using DNA testing.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

And Michelle tells me too many people assume the DNA test process is straightforward. Spit lab name pops out. In truth, it's a bit more complex than this. DNA is microscopic in size, but mighty in impact. Michelle uses it to help clients find answers about their families.

[Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert)]

Everyone has the right to know where you come from, the right to know who your parents were, and the right to have your medical history and know things that might be really important to your medical future as well.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

That right to understand where you come from means Michelle will go digging, whatever the potential fallout.

[Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert)]

However, the right to know is not the same as the right to a relationship. The parent has the right to say, I don't want to be contacted. I don't want to have a relationship. And as sad and devastating as that can be at times for the child, in that instance, that has to be respected.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

I went to Michelle to check that Jess had drawn the right conclusions from her DNA tests. But this feels like a salutary warning that just because you find family doesn't mean you get to keep them close. And mothers who give up their children for adoption or even abandon them as babies, they aren't necessarily waiting with open arms for the moment the child arrives back into their life. For the person searching, it can feel like the most important quest of their life. For the person being found, it may feel like an ambush. I ask Michelle, with Jess's say so to take a look at all of Jess results from the DNA companies she's used.

[Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert)]

Hopefully we're in the right place here.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Okay, let's see if we can make that a bit bigger.

[Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert)]

All right, so we are looking here at Jess ancestry results and what I was talking about earlier.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

She gets going, pulling in results from the different sites and creating a family tree.

[Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert)]

What I do is I build a private and unsearchable research tree in ancestry and I work the matches.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Michelle goes back further and further in time, building out generation after generation of Jess ancestors, parents, grandparents, great grandparents. I watch the screen as she gets to work. It's kind of amazing.

[Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert)]

These kinds of cases are like giant jigsaw puzzles. However, they're old jigsaw puzzles. All the pieces are a bit, you know, worn. There's bits missing. The box is long gone. You don't know what the original jigsaw is meant to look like. And you just have to slowly start to put these old worn pieces on the board until a picture emerges. And it inevitably does emerge if you get enough pieces on the board.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

In Jess's case, the picture seems pretty clear.

[Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert)]

Jess has matches across the board.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

And here's the thing, all of Michelle's detective work to check Jess conclusions is possible. Even though Jess biological parents haven't done their DNA, these databases are now so big, Michelle's able to use other people's DNA profiles to narrow a search right down. And at that point it doesn't take much to fill in the blanks. These days it's very hard to stay hidden. Is it generally the case that they're finding out big gaps in your family using DNA leads to happy endings?

[Michelle Leonard (Genealogist/DNA Expert)]

Ah, dear, that is a really good question. And it is just so individual. I've seen some beautiful happy endings, honestly, amazing, amazing happy endings. And I've also seen some terribly, terribly sad outcomes as well.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

I'd gone back home and Lewis said to me, I need to talk to you about something.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Lewis's long term partner is Debbie. She's a slim woman with light brown hair tied back in a ponytail. We're sitting in her daughter's kitchen as the sun streams in the back window. Debbie starts slowly, like she's not used to being the one doing the talking. And she tells me how she found out about Jess.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

He said, can we go for a drive out? Which were unusual because by this time relationship were in tatters, really. I'd been for a while.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Debbie and Lewis have been a couple since they were in their teens. They've had five children together. But the way she tells it, the relationship hadn't been good for some time. When you think back, were there happy times?

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

To be honest, at the moment I can't really think of any. I suppose there were, but at the moment I can't.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

So when he asks her to go for a drive that August evening, just the two of them, she smells a rat.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

And I just said, well can't you tell me here? And he said no because he didn't want neighbors to hear.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

So he drives her to a pub in the countryside and buys her a

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

drink, sat outside because it were nice, it was summer, they were just talking, like just normal and not coming, not telling me what it took me there for. And then I said to him, well what? What did you want to tell me? And he said, this is what he said. He said, I think I've got a. I think I've Got a daughter or something. This woman's been in contact and said she thinks I'm a dad because obviously I'd been with him since I was 17. He were a bit older, but not that much 19. So I would just like gobsmack sort of thing.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Debbie asks Lewis how old this daughter is and he tells her. Debbie does the maths. Jess is almost exactly the same age as their second son.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

And I just said, take me home. I did feel like smashing glass over his head, to be honest, but. And he just acted normal, took glasses back to bar because he knew that I couldn't kick off in pub car park or he knew I wouldn't kick off. I know some people would have just kicked off, but he knew I wouldn't. So I just got in car with him and he were just trying to talk and I just. I didn't want to talk to him.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Eventually, Debbie asks him to pull over and she gets out. She calls her eldest daughter, Kim.

[Kim (Half Sister)]

Whenever I get a phone call, I instantly know there's something wrong. If it's not a text, I'm like, right, what the hell's going on here? So I answer his phone, I'm like, hello. And she says, do you know as well? And I'm like, what do you know? I'm like, know what?

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Because Debbie's paranoid that everyone's heard before she has. At the pub, Lewis had said that their two eldest sons already knew about Jessica before Debbie did.

[Kim (Half Sister)]

What are you talking about? And she said that you've got another sister. I mean, my heart just dropped because I'm just thinking, what on earth?

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Like, how, when? What? Looking at the messages between family members during those crazy days after Jess appears on the scene, they all seem pretty stunned. I know at least two of his children are sure their dad, Lewis, had no idea Jess existed. Maybe because of this, Jess doesn't seem to judge him as harshly as she does her biological mother.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

He replied and said, it's knocked me sideways. I just don't know what to say at the moment. I'm sure you understand, but it's so nice to hear from you.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

I don't know, he sounded quite caring.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

Yeah, that's what I got from it as well.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Still, it must have hurt a bit when, after that brief exchange of messages, she hears nothing more. That was more than three years ago. Now, Jess tells me she doesn't mind, but I'm not so sure.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

You go through life wanting to be accepted and wanting to be loved because you've got this little seed in your brain. Right from when you were born that you're not loved and you're not wanted. And then you've got this fear of rejection going into new relationships of, are they gonna meet me and are they actually gonna want to continue to see me and do they like me as a person?

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Jess often says to me, family bonds aren't just about blood. Having been raised by incredible adoptive parents, she knows that for certain. But when there's blood and a bond, there's a kind of alchemy to it. Jess was looking for her birth parents. She's found them and gained eight new half siblings. But it's with her two half sisters, Kim and Chloe, that she finds the real magic.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

And it's only when you find that connection and you realise that's the connection that I really wanted.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

This. This is what it's all about. That search for a sense of closeness, a kinship. After a few months of chatting over WhatsApp, the three women arranged to meet in the gardens of a stately home. So it looks like it's kind of autumn time.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

It was, yeah.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

And there are the two girls with their long black hair and you in the middle and you've all got your arms around each other.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

Yeah.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

And actually everyone looks kind of a little bit stunned, but also genuinely quite delighted. Yeah.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

And we was laughing and joking because I stupidly wore a dress and that was caked in mud. And then Chloe had wore some beautiful new trainers that got caked in mud, so none of us had really prepared for the weather at all. And we just had this lovely walk. It was very really organic, really natural.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Kim is in her early 30s, chatty, gregarious. Chloe is 10 years younger. She seems shy and a bit nervous

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

at first, even though there wasn't massive amounts of conversation. She was so warm. Everything she ever said was with a smile. And I don't know, I found that really beautiful. And it was lovely. You could see the dynamic between her and Kim. Like, you could see they absolutely adored each other.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Chloe takes real care to include Jess.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

Two kids, she was sort of pointing out the ducks and having chats with them. It was lovely to see.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

The way Jess tells it, this first meeting with her new sisters, the muddy walk, lunch in the pub, everything just fell into place.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

We just had the same thoughts, the same interests, everything. And so you're like, okay, we didn't look like each other. But that connection was much deeper than just looks because we came away going, God, we're so alike. Because everything we discussed, we were on the same page. And it was beautiful.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Jess says she's always dreamed of being part of a big family, and we know she has one now, on paper at least by my reckoning. On top of those eight half siblings, she's gained two parents, four grandparents, a lot of aunts, uncles, nieces and nephews. And that's before you get to her new cousins. But it's Kim and Chloe who make that feel real that autumn day, Chloe walking ahead with Jess, children pointing out the ducks, the three women content. If only you could just press pause and freeze it there.

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[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

You are this bringer of change without meaning to be. Yeah, you know, so things do happen in their family as a result of it. Tell me what happens.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

So it was really difficult. The dynamics was really hard to juggle. I knew that there was tensions and things and difficulties with their mum. It wasn't anything she ever expected. I certainly wasn't anything she ever expected to sort of jump onto the scene. And I can understand, like her thoughts and feelings towards me would have been really difficult.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

I put so much effort into my kids and they were sort of everything. It were hard for me because this person's nothing to do with me but still to do with the dad. So I'm kind of outside of everything and it that were really odd.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

This is so unexpected for Debbie and she's not coping well.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

It was like an hand grenade in his life. In August 2022, she feels angry and

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

she starts to wonder who was this woman he had a baby with? A baby she abandoned.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

Obviously I was trying to get stuff out of him and piece stuff together.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

She learns the name of the woman Lewis had an affair with in the 1980s, a woman named Jennifer. But it doesn't ring any bells. It isn't anyone Debbie remembers. Lewis tells her the relationship was casual, no more than a fling really.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

He just said that he went out with mates and she were there and he weren't really. See, he weren't really. She weren't really his girlfriend. He just used to take her home at end at night and have sex. Home where?

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

What home?

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

To her house.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Did he say how long for? How long it went on for like that? How many times?

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

Well, he said it. It finished it in the May.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

May, that would be May 1987. Five months before Jess was born. So Jennifer would have been around four months pregnant. So he's sleeping with someone as they go from not being pregnant to being four months gone and he doesn't notice. But Lewis insists to Debbie he had no idea.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

He said no. He said he couldn't tell because she were big and she never said anything.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

We know the relationship ends around this point when Jennifer moves to Suffolk to become a nanny.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

From what he said, she was scared of her parents and all this and she'd given him an ultimatum and said it's her or me kind of thing.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

And Debbie's convinced Jennifer would have leveraged her pregnancy at this point to keep the relationship going.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

Surely he'd use it. You're pregnant and scared. I'd been in that position. I were only 17, like young when I had Adam, so I'd been in that position. Jennifer, surely you'd say, well, I'm pregnant. What are you gonna do about it?

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

As time goes on, Debbie starts to realise Lewis's relationship with Jennifer wasn't a one off.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

I just Started to like, think of little things that had not made sense. Like I remembered hearing him being dropped off once at night, late at night, and I also remember finding lipstick on his shirt and him just saying, well, it must have been, you know, like when you're in a pub and it's really loud. Found an earring as well in his van once and he said he used to go to a class and he said he'd give somebody body a lift and they must have lost it.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Up till now. It's Debbie who's been left most hurt and confused by Jess arrival. But the ripples are about to reach Chloe, Jess's softly spoken half sister.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

So I've been like on antidepressants since I was like 14.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

This is a voice note sent from Chloe to Jess in 2022. Something happened when Chloe was 14 and the memory of it still haunts Debbie.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

She'd gone to a friend's house. I don't think I'd bander from seeing him but I didn't really want her having a lot to do with him because they'd been shoplifting and I'd got called to store by store detective and his mum had just not been bothered about it and I obviously told her off course I didn't want to do anything like that. So she'd gone to his house and not told me.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Chloe's not a badly behaved kid, but she's no angel either. And on this particular day she's lied to her mom so she can go to a boy's house while Debbie thinks she's elsewhere.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

There was a friend of the family there, a man, and he plied them both with drink and, Well, I think he assault. Well, I think he tried to touch Chloe and she basically just got herself out of there.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Chloe escaped to another friend's house, but

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

her friend, I mean, it weren't a boyfriend but he was a boy. This man raped him. She blamed herself because she'd got out of it and left him.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Chloe feels traumatized and guilty and on top of all of that, she's due to give evidence at the trial. It's plain for Debbie to see the toll it's taking on her daughter because

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

she'd got to, you know, go to court. Told police she was struggling, but she weren't seen as the victim, so. And then she came down one morning before school and said she'd take him some tablets.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Chloe's admitted to hospital and when she's discharged she's referred to the local mental health team. But this attempt to take her own life becomes the first of many. Chloe stops going to school regularly. Days go by without her leaving her room and her family lives in fear of her trying again. Chloe's been having counseling one way or another ever since.

[Kim (Half Sister)]

It just felt like it were a cycle, like it were a cycle. After that first time, she'd come out, not be great for a bit, then sort of be a bit more normal again and then she'd go downhill again.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

The counseling has often been the best way, the only way of coping during some of her darkest moments of despair and depression.

[Kim (Half Sister)]

You know, like the alarms that old people have on the doors, there were stages where we had alarms so that if she got up at night and opened that door, we'd hear it, so we'd get up.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Chloe's very open about her struggles. So when Jess and Chloe discover each other and start chatting in 2022, it's one of the first things Jess learns about her.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

To me, Chloe was always fragile, she was always vulnerable. She said that she's always struggled with her mental health, she's struggled with. Everything's been a struggle and she's always tried to move forward from it. And we spoke at length about, you know, how she. She was doing horse riding, which helped her with her mental health. We'd spoken about sort of alternative medicines and things like that.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

When they first talk, Chloe's in a good place. She's at college studying mental health nursing. And then what's next? And when she's not doing that, she's spending time with her niece.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

Well done, you're so clever.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Goes out singing karaoke with her brother Josh. Normal stuff. It's only a few days after the revelation in the pub garden when Debbie starts to seriously worry. Not about the breakdown of her decades long relationship with Lewis, nor about Jess herself, but about what it all means for Chloe. Because there's a reason why I've told you about Chloe and her fluctuating mental health. Debbie's worry is prompted by something her eldest son Adam had said to her. He was the first to be in touch with Jess and it was Adam who'd broken the news to Lewis that this woman had come forward and that the DNA confirmed Jess was his daughter. During that conversation, Adam also told Lewis who Jess mother was. This conversation, just imagine it, being told by your son that a woman you had an affair with years earlier had secretly gone on to give birth to your daughter, that she's now an adult and she wants to get in touch. Anyway. Adam had later relayed this conversation to his Mum, Debbie. And it keeps popping back into her head.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

He said that when he'd said to his dad who it was, who Jess's mum was, his dad had said, no, no, it can't be her. She's a mental health nurse.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

It had seemed like an odd detail to include at the time, but it stays with Debbie because she knows about mental health. Because of Chloe's illness. Chloe's been under the care of the local NHS mental health team for years. Debbie's been in close touch with some of the members of the team. She's even sat in on some of Chloe's sessions, including with the most recent mental health nurse who's really stood out. She's been kind, responsive and understanding.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

Yeah, she seemed really nice and Chloe liked her and I liked her. She just seemed nice and caring. She gave me a number and she gave Chloe a number.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

She's told Chloe to ring her if she ever feels she wants to, and Chloe does. The counsellor is a woman in her mid-50s. Her name's Jennifer.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

And I just. I don't know, I just thought it's a bit of a coincidence if it's the same name.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

The woman who had a fling with Lewis decades ago and who'd gone on to have his baby is a local mental health nurse named Jennifer. And Debbie's thinking, how many mental health nurses in a small town can there be with the first name Jennifer? Debbie calls her son and asks him, what is this woman's surname, her married name, the surname she might use at work? Next time on Foundling.

[Kim (Half Sister)]

She just kept saying she felt violated. That's the word that she kept using. And she were angry because she trusted Jennifer.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

It's the. It's Chloe not knowing. And that's what Chloe. That's what affected her. It's the fact that she knew and Chloe didn't know.

[Jess (Birth Daughter)]

Knowing exactly who she is and to continue to counsel that, even though knowing that's a conflict of interest, knowing she's had a baby with her dad, like, it's just awful, honestly. What are you thinking doing that? What are you getting out of that? There's no rhyme or reason for that.

[Debbie (Lewis's Partner)]

She must have known who Chloe were. There's no way that she didn't. I 110% believe that she knew Chloe were.

[Lucy Greenwell (Host/Narrator)]

Foundling is reported by me, Lucy Greenwell. It's written by me and Katie Gunning, who's also the series producer. The theme music was composed by Tom Kinsella. Sound design and additional music was by Rowan Bishop. Podcast artwork is by BLYTHE Walker Sibthorpe. The development producer was Jess Swinburn. The narrative editor was Garry Marshall. The editor is Jasper Corbett. Thank you for listening to Foundling. We hope you're enjoying the podcast so far. You can listen to all six episodes today by subscribing to the Observer. By subscribing, not only do you get all our podcasts before anyone else, you also get access to our premium newsletters, exclusive offers from our partners Mubi and I, Escape tickets to our events, and much, much more. Subscribe [e-mail] subscribe or via the link in the Show Notes. Subscribe today for £1 for your first month.

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