Podcast
Lunch Hour Legal Marketing
Hosted by Legal Talk Network · EN
Are you hungry for more clients? Tired of wasting time (and money) on marketing that doesn’t work? This podcast serves up real-world tips and proven digital marketing strategies that actually drive results for law firms.
Hosted by Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam—two legal marketing pros who’ve been in the trenches. You’ll get practical advice on client acquisition, website teardowns, and what’s actually working for lawyers today—all with a touch of mirth.
Congratulations, you found it—THE podcast for lawyers who want to grow their practice! So, if you’re ready to take your business to the next level, pull up a seat and dig in with Lunch Hour Legal Marketing.
18episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Don’t Be Weird About Sponsorships (Just Be Honest)
1w ago00:18:15Tap to summarizeConrad’s query sounds simple on the surface: If we’re getting paid to talk about something, how obvious do we have to be about it? That turns into a much bigger conversation with John Henson about disclosures, sponsorships, and where people tend to get themselves into trouble. They talk through the new LHLM endorsement model, what actually needs to be said out loud, and how far you can go before it starts to feel like you’re hiding something. (Hint: don’t do that.) There’s also a practical side to this. Nobody wants a podcast that sounds like a legal disclaimer with a few jokes sprinkled in. So the question becomes: how do you stay compliant without killing the flow? Chimes, hashtags, beginning-of-episode callouts: John walks us through what works, what’s probably enough, and what starts to look a little shady. Then John flips it around with a great question he’s been stewing on for Lunch Hour Legal Marketing: He’s running a small firm with a national footprint and doesn’t care about ranking locally. How is he supposed to market that? Plus! John Henson will be schooling us on staying out of FTC jail at the Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit this August in Nashville. Get your tickets: https://lunchhourlegalmarketing.com/ Want more Lunch Hour in your week? Catch Gyi and Conrad live every Thursday at 1 PM for Office Hours on LinkedIn! Thank you to our beautiful, brave sponsors Juvo Leads, Lawmatics, CallRail, and Alps Insurance!
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A Tale of Two Dashboards
2w ago00:40:06Tap to summarizeTwo dashboards. Two stories. One broken relationship. This week on Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, Conrad Saam and Gyi Tsakalakis unpack a client loss that wasn’t really about performance; it was about measurement. The agency saw success. The law firm saw zero cases. And both were looking at completely different versions of reality. We break down a $11.5K paid search campaign that generated 64 leads at a $181 CPL with strong engagement metrics but still ended in termination. Why? Because the agency optimized for cost per lead, while the firm measured success by signed clients. No shared definition of a “good lead” meant no shared understanding of success. So what actually went wrong? And more importantly, how do you prevent it? We dig into: Why cost per lead is the wrong scoreboard for a firm measuring signed cases How “wanted leads” become the missing feedback loop in legal marketing The role of intake, attribution, and CRM gaps in distorting performance Why even strong campaigns fail when dashboards don’t match reality How fractional CMOs can either bridge—or widen—the measurement divide At the center of it all is a simple problem: agencies and law firms are often not just disagreeing… they’re not even reading the same watch. Lunch Hour Legal Marketing will be covering Vista Consulting Team’s Baltimore event, A Seat at the Table. Conrad and Gyi will be at the PILMMA Super Summit in May. Want to meet them and be on the pod? Reach out! Come to the Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit, and listen to John Henson school us on how to stay out of FTC jail, and eat a listicle on us! ------- Conferences & Mentions:
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By the Numbers: The Super Duper Data Edition
3w ago00:40:46Tap to summarizeIs your law firm marketing budget relying on channels that account for less than 1% of new leads? Oh boy, do we love a good stat! ----- We're back with a super duper installment of "By the Numbers" where we dive into real data for your law firm marketing strategy! Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam break down the latest stats from Near Media and CallRail that are changing the game for legal marketing and law firm SEO. How many consumers actually know how personal injury lawyers are paid? And despite the hype, how relevant is AI in legal search right now? CallRail data shows AI touches are a very small part of inbound leads, but just how small? We also cover important local search statistics on when consumers choose to call without clicking your website. The News: CallRail is giving us easy, generous access to their AI resources. Good stuff! Cool your jets, private equity—new boundaries incoming: Bills to rein in outside investment in law firms advance in California, Illinois. Google’s latest reviews update is suuuuper problematic. Here’s Darren Shaw’s take. Everyone start prepping your doomsday bunkers. Anthropic’s Mythos Model is showing emergent cyber-hacking skills. Catch Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on the road! GLM Bootcamp A Seat at the Table PILMMA LHLM Super Duper Summit (of course!) Listen Next: Is AI Optimization a Thing? Connect: The Bite - Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Newsletter! Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok r/LHLM
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ABA TECHSHOW 2026 Recap: Our Favorite Conversations from the Floor
4w ago00:24:29Tap to summarizeThe best conversations from ABA TECHSHOW 2026, all in one place. Gyi and Conrad hit the floor to talk with legal tech innovators, lawyers, and industry leaders about what’s actually working right now. ----- In this special recap episode of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, we’re bringing you our favorite conversations from the floor of ABA TECHSHOW 2026. From getting paid faster to using AI more effectively, these interviews highlight the ideas shaping the future of law firms. ----- In this episode: Why law firms struggle with collections (and how to fix it) How AI is saving hours in legal workflows Smarter estate planning through automation Building a brand that actually connects with clients Real-world insights from lawyers and legal tech founders Subscribe for more insights on legal marketing, tech, and law firm growth.Which conversation stood out most to you? Let us know in the comments.Connect with our guests!Matt Darner, Cofounder and CEO of CollBox-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewdarner/-Website: https://collbox.co/Isabella Hughes, Cofounder of EstateMin-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/isabella-hughes-77719a250/-Website: https://www.estatemin.com/Majo Castro, Founder & Managing Attorney of Castroland Legal, PLLC-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/majocastro/-Website: https://www.castrolandlegal.com/Mike Whelan, Host of the “AI in Practice” Podcast; CEO of Lawyer Forward-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikewhelanjr/-Podcast Page: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ai-in-practice/id1846506529 Wendy Meadows, Attorney & Mediator at Law Office of Wendy S. Meadows, LLC-LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendy-s-meadows/-Website: https://www.wendymeadowslaw.com/
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Is AI Search Optimization a Thing?
Apr 800:52:58Tap to summarizeWhy is it SO difficult to track success in AI search? You want to rank, AI is a beast, your agency might be full of it, and we want to help. Then, we know people are going to lose their jobs to AI, but whose heads will be the first to roll? --- If the chaos of AI search is making your head spin, let’s see if we can get you off the merry-go-round. The lack of understanding and transparency from digital marketing agencies is bonkers right now, so you might be getting bad info about your AI search data. Gyi and Conrad get into the realities of how these AI results really work and how to approach your law firm growth tactics in this environment. Later, it was fascinating to see the heavily AI-centric startup alley pitches at ABA Techshow. Tons of law firms are building their own tools with AI, so what does this mean for legal tech, marketers, agencies, etc.? Let’s discuss whether we’re all losing our jobs… The News: Smokeball and Thomson Reuters are dating. Is it love, or do they just want each other for their data? – Smokeball and Thomson Reuters Partner to Create the Premier Legal Technology Ecosystem Wanna chat about the ins and outs and heres and theres of the private equity landscape? Join us at A Seat at the Table May 6-7 at the Baltimore ballfields. You know what they say, Astroturfing is the best form of flattery. Also, come hang out at r/LHLM! Listicles have never been classy, but did you know that they could also be illegal? Lily Ray explains it well: Promotional listicles: in some cases, they may actually be *against the law,* according to FTC rules. Come to the LHLM Summit! Join us 8/11-13 for some killer talks on law firm growth. Lee Rudin will be there to tell you why your merch sucks, and we know you don’t want to suck. Kerri Coby White is gracing us with an in-depth talk intake, and we know you need that, too! So much good stuff—be there. Listen Next: How to Rank in Google AI Mode Connect: The Bite - Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Newsletter! Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok r/LHLM Chapters 00:00 Go Blue! 01:51 Legal Marketing News 02:05 Smokeball and Thomson Reuters Getting Cozy 03:21 Private Equity in Legal: "A Seat at the Table" Event 04:18 We Got Astroturffed! 04:50 Promotional Listicles May Be Illegal (FTC Rules) 08:23 LHLM Summit: Your Merchandise Sucks (Lee Rudin) 09:07 LHLM Summit: In-Depth Intake Talk (Kerri Coby White) 09:38 How to REALLY Rank in AI Search & ABA Tech Show Recap | Segment 1 11:13 The Impossibility of Tracking AI Search Success (Why Agencies Lie) 18:26 Tactical AI Search Optimization: Data Infrastructure & Tracking 24:01 Why It’s Still a "Google Most World" & The Importance of Digital PR 37:21 Who Will Lose Their Jobs to AI? (ABA Tech Show Startup Alley) | Segment 2 42:56 The Race to Bespoke AI Software and Headcount Reduction 48:56 Join us for Office Hours
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Claudia Unleashed!
Apr 100:20:15Tap to summarizeConrad and Gyi are live from ABA TECHSHOW 2026 at McCormick Place in Chicago, and they've got a big announcement. Lunch Hour Legal Marketing is going all-in on AI with the debut of Claudia, the podcast's new AI co-host. Trained on the most authoritative legal marketing sources (including this very podcast), backed by private equity from Amazon's Alexa Fund, and equipped with her own proprietary accuracy-testing model... What could possibly go wrong? The guys break down the news: A landmark social media addiction verdict against Meta and Google The epic police accountability case starring Afroman A lawyer whose social profiles were hijacked by a Morgan & Morgan slogan Thanks to our sponsors: Thyme, Alps, LexReception, CallRail, and our new sponsors, Lawmatics and Juvo Leads!An additional thank you to the hosts of this week's events, Smokeball and 8AM! Chapters 0:00 Welcome from ABA TECHSHOW 2026 0:43 Thank You: Smokeball & 8AM 1:54 Why TECHSHOW Is Different 2:42 Big Announcement Coming 3:26 New Format & Weekly Episodes 3:53 Going All-In on AI 4:17 News: Afroman's Civil Rights Case 5:29 News: Meta & Google Social Media Addiction Verdict 6:27 News: Attorney's Social Profiles Hacked 7:29 ALPS Insurance Ad (Read by Claudia) 8:56 Introducing Claudia, AI Co-Host 11:04 What Claudia Does for LHLM 11:19 How Claudia Was Trained 12:37 Hallucinations & Accuracy — How Claudia Handles It 13:35 The Self-Serving Training Problem 14:34 Claudia as Agency Secret Sauce 15:20 Three Firms Per Market — The Business Model 16:02 Claudia's... Unconventional Capabilities 16:56 Things Get Weird 17:22 Budget AI Problems
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Mail Bag – You Asked, We Answered
Mar 2500:43:18Tap to summarizeWe love answering your questions, folks! Gyi and Conrad have collected a series of queries from a variety of LHLM listeners, and they’ve got plenty of tactical insights to share. ----- Mail time! When we know what’s on your mind, we can bring you the focused, valuable guidance you need to keep growing and improving your law firm business. So, what questions & answers do we have for you today? They guys address marketing mindset shifts (think like a CEO!), seemingly dubious PPC data, visibility tips, 2026 conference recommendations, and more. Also, things are a’changing at Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. Gyi & Conrad take a moment to explain the new partnerships they've been developing, and the next step in the evolution of the podcast. The News: Greater personalization seems to be the driving force behind the expansion of Personal Intelligence across AI Mode in Search, the Gemini app, and Gemini in Chrome. Is this good? Bad? Another step toward hyperdependency? We’ll see: Bringing the power of Personal Intelligence to more people Anthropic has done an extensive study on What 81,000 People Want from AI. Give it a read. Users can now ask AI about the businesses they see in Google Maps, and we think this promises to bring some significant user behavior shifts over time. Think about it: How we’re reimagining Maps with Gemini. OpenAI updates: Introducing GPT‑5.4 mini and nano. Find Conrad and Gyi at ABA TECHSHOW! Listen Next: BS You Hear at Legal Conferences Connect: The Bite - Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Newsletter! Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok r/LHLM Chapters 00:00 Intro: LHLM at ABA TECHSHOW 2026 02:23 The News: Google's Personal Intelligence & AI 03:16 The News: Anthropic’s Massive AI Study 04:10 The News: Google Maps Re-Imagined with Gemini 05:10 The News: New ChatGPT Release 05:31 Find LHLM at ABA TECHSHOW 06:43 An Evolution for Lunch Hour Legal Marketing (Sponsored Endorsement Model) 13:50 Listener Review: Invaluable 5 Stars 14:58 Opening the LHLM Mailbag 15:15 Mailbag Q1: Helping Marketing Operators Think Like a CEO 22:54 Mailbag Q2: Turned Off PPC, No Drop in Leads - Why? 29:57 Mailbag Q3: Top 3 Trends to Increase Visibility/Growth 36:20 Mailbag Q4: Legal Conferences to Attend in 2026 39:10 Wrap-Up
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Beets, Berries, and Better Paralegals
Mar 1800:16:10Tap to summarizeParalegals might not wear capes, but they’re often the ones keeping your law firm running and making sure your clients are happy. Conrad and Gyi dive into the unsung, everyday heroes of your practice, your paralegals, and how the right team can make or break your client experience. We highlight a few key clips from a full-length interview Conrad had with Ryan McKeen and Marisa Rua from Para Era about building better paralegal training programs, hiring talent from unexpected industries like food service, and creating systems that let paralegals thrive. Your paralegals are often the first face of your firm, the first voice clients hear, and the first impression that shapes your brand. Ryan and Marissa discuss how to turn that reality into a competitive advantage.📺 Want to hear our entire discussion with Ryan and Marisa? Watch on YouTube The News Congratulations to Neil Katyal for overturning Trump’s unconstitutional tariffs. Big law firms like Jenner & Block, WilmerHale, Perkins Coie, and Susman Godfrey stand strong, proving that not all big law groups are wusses. And yes, your paralegals are still more important than you thought. Chapters: 00:00 Dirty Hands and Native Berries 02:34 News: Legal Wins and Law Firm Backbone 04:07 Why Paralegals Matter for Marketing 06:07 The Paralegal Training Gap 06:33 Hiring Great Paralegals (Even with Zero Experience) 08:45 Marketing Law Firm Jobs to Non-Legal Talent 09:18 When It’s Time to Let a Paralegal Go 10:14 Operational Tips for Better Paralegal Performance 10:18 Let Paralegals Schedule Their Own Calls 11:47 Send Paralegals to Conferences Too
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Olympic Lawyer on Competition, Law Firm Growth, and the Rule of Law
Mar 1100:48:05Tap to summarizeA real Olympian on our little podcast?! Athlete and lawyer Rich Ruohonen shows us all how excellence and commitment are good for business. And, more importantly, how standing up for what’s right as both a citizen and a representative of the law is so necessary in our current cultural climate. ---- Okay, so maybe you can’t be an Olympian, but you can grow your business by pursuing your passions, investing in your community, and showing genuine care for those around you. Gyi and Conrad are honored to welcome Rich Ruohonen, the oldest-ever American winter Olympian, to talk about his experiences with the American Curling team in the 2026 Milano Cortina Olympic Games. Oh, and for all you lawyers out there, Rich shares down-to-earth insights on how his personal injury law firm engages with their community. Later, in the wake of the killings of Renée Good and Alex Pretti, Rich was compelled to use the Olympic stage to speak out about ICE violence in his home state of Minnesota. He shares what that experience meant for him as both a lawyer and a citizen of our great country. Thank you to Rich for representing our country and the profession so well. 📺 Watch: Rich's Olympic Speech The News: Guess this wasn’t a no-brainer—don’t be a dummy and talk about sensitive information with public AI chatbots. This case shows us why: United States v. HEPPNER And, in more AI nonsense: Lawyer apologizes for fake quotes, fabricated judgments generated by AI in murder case. Yikes. And, some lawyer skulduggery in South Carolina: Lowcountry Attorney Charged with Defrauding $1.5M from Mt. Pleasant Law Firm and Clients. Eesh. On a lighter note, get your tickets for the LHLM Summit! Yay! Listen Next: The One Where Gyi and Conrad Rock the Boat Connect: The Bite - Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Newsletter! Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok r/LHLM In This Episode: 00:00 Fit Check 02:24 Starting with the News 07:50 Introducing Olympian Lawyer Rich Ruohonen 08:18 Rich's Olympic Journey in Curling 15:15 Curling, Law, and Business: The Intersection of Being an Athlete and a Trial Lawyer 29:11 Making a Stand: Rich Ruohonen's Olympic Speech on the Rule of Law in Minnesota 41:18 Closing & Final Thanks
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Help, My Law Firm Is Stuck! – Should I Expand Practice Areas or Locations?
Feb 2500:41:30Tap to summarizeBusiness feeling stagnant in your smaller market? Contradictory to our previous claims, adding a new practice area might be just the thing. But first, new Direct Business Search data just dropped—what do you do now? ----- Fantastic news, everybody—Google has finally segmented out your Direct Business Search results. What does that mean for you? Gyi and Conrad hash out the details to help you understand how this new data could affect your tactics and budget, ultimately bringing better focus to your marketing efforts. Later, we’ve often said that finding your niche area in legal practice can be a very effective way to capture more business in your market. Buuut… is that always true? Could there, perchance, be a situation where adding new practice areas is the best move for your business? Gyi and Conrad discuss the pros and cons of practice expansion and how to stay tactical and competitive in the process. The News: Very clever PR stunt, folks. – Cheeky law firm offers to help Native American tribe evict Billie Eilish from their land after smug Grammys rant. Just want to offer our appreciation to Rich Ruohonen for being an awesome athlete, lawyer, and citizen of our great country – A 54-year-old personal injury lawyer from Minnesota just became the oldest US Winter Olympian Google Direct Business Search data now showing in LSAs. Fresh Near Media Research is on its way. Stay tuned! Listen Next: LHLM Office Hours Connect: The Bite - Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Newsletter! Leave Us an Apple Review Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on YouTube Lunch Hour Legal Marketing on TikTok r/LHLM
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