Inside the Ticketmaster Empire (ft. Pat 'The Beav' Cassidy) | March 12, 2026

Summary

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Macrodosing: Inside the Ticketmaster Empire (ft. Pat 'The Beav' Cassidy)

Date: March 12, 2026
Hosts/Guests: PFT Commenter, Arian Foster (absent), Big T, Pat 'The Beav' Cassidy
Episode Theme: An irreverent, in-depth exploration of the Ticketmaster/Live Nation monopoly, its history, artist experiences, legal battles, and the broader effects on music fans and the business itself.

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers a sprawling, insightful, and characteristically offbeat Macrodosing investigation into the rise of Ticketmaster, the infamous Ticketmaster-Live Nation merger, and ongoing legal battles about monopoly and fees—anchored by guest expert and music industry insider Pat Cassidy. The discussion travels from Pearl Jam’s notorious standoff with Ticketmaster to the way modern tech, shady legal maneuvers, and even the CIA intersected with ticket sales. Along the way, the crew covers a host of tangents—90s file sharing, fake IDs, college sports, and oddball sports news—always circling back to how venues, promoters, and platforms shape live music.

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Main Sections and Key Highlights

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1. Intro and Music Business Tangents

(Starts ~09:39)

• Early Topic: The history and chaos of Napster, mislabeling music files, and shifting music distribution in the digital age.

  • “That cover of ‘Gin and Juice’ got mislabeled so hard.”—Big T [11:18]
  • Banter about downloading songs on Limewire, Kazaa, and the wild, mislabeled Wild West of 2000s file sharing.

• The psychological side of owning music:

  • Making yourself like bad albums because you spent money on them (15:05–16:04).
  • Early file-sharing was disorganized and risky, with users sometimes prosecuted by the DOJ for pirated music.

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2. Artist Experience and Promoters

(Starts ~66:46)

• How Live Nation and Ticketmaster affect bands:

  • Pat Cassidy walks through the economics of a tour:
    • “If you want to buy the ticket ahead of time, it was $27.50. So theoretically, Pop Punk would have gotten a portion of $20...and $7.50 just goes straight to Ticketmaster.” —Pat Cassidy [69:11]
    • Venues also take ~15% on merchandise sales (“You have to rack. You have to bring your prices up at a Live Nation venue. Also, the expenses are insane.”—[70:17])

• Fees and lack of artist participation:

  • Bands don’t get a piece of fees. Even for a “free” show, Ticketmaster wanted to tack on $1 per ticket.

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3. Ticketmaster & Live Nation: How We Got Here

(Deep dive from ~63:56 on, with interweaving background from ~78:05)

• Origin Story:

  • Ticketmaster invented for seating clarity; early service charge was $0.25.
  • The company was acquired by tax attorney Burton Cantor, who’d previously run “Castle Bank”—a CIA-linked Bahamas operation for tax evasion and black ops funding (see detailed story, [83:15–85:46]).

• Rise to Monopoly:

  • Ticketmaster’s exclusive venue contracts, offering promoters a cut of service fees (89:22–90:25).
  • Ticketron, a competitor, was bought and dissolved, cementing Ticketmaster’s near-total U.S. control.

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4. Pearl Jam vs. Ticketmaster – The Battle that Shaped the Industry

(Starts ~10:07, deep dive at 94:45–104:50)

• Pearl Jam fights service fees:

  • Tried to book a free concert—Ticketmaster insisted on a $1 fee. When they tried to book a charity show, Ticketmaster refused.
  • “He wanted to keep his ticket prices so a guy that worked at a gas station could take his boy to see a Pearl Jam show, but with a ticket fee of six or seven bucks ... It’s not so affordable.” —Pat Cassidy [95:16]
  • The band attempted to boycott Ticketmaster venues and testify before Congress, but were effectively blackballed, and their drummer was rumored to have been pressured by Ticketmaster spies ([98:54]).

• Ticketmaster’s counter-campaign:

  • Hired anti-moshing consultants to cancel alternative venue shows, used PI’s, planted news stories.
  • Ultimately, Pearl Jam and their alliance (including Garth Brooks) failed to break the monopoly.

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5. Ticketmaster Today: The Live Nation Merger & Lawsuits

(From ~105:49)

• Live Nation now owns ~400 venues globally, 75% of U.S. venues with exclusive Ticketmaster contracts.

  • Owns management company Roc Nation (400+ artists)—creating conflicts of interest for artists (107:09–108:44).
  • “It’s the artist and the fan that’s getting screwed here.” —Pat Cassidy [107:07]

• Recent Lawsuit (2026):

  • Prompted by the Taylor Swift sale debacle, laws (like MN’s “Taylor Swift Ticket Law”), and DOJ antitrust action.
  • Settlement caps service fees at 15%, lets venues in theory use other ticketing, and forces Live Nation to divest some exclusivity ([111:43]); hosts are skeptical it will truly open up the market.

• Savannah Bananas as an exception:

  • Handle their own tickets, no resale markups, fees, or Ticketmaster involvement (113:18).

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6. Music Industry Oddities, Trivia, and Side Tangents

(Interspersed; highlights below)

• On mislabeling music (“Who actually sings that song?”):
  • “Blinded by the Light” false attribution saga; how misinformation persists due to old file-sharing habits.
• Fake ID Stories:
  • Funny and embarrassing high school/college stories; creative names, and commitment to the bit (e.g., “Rasheed Wallace”) [59:09].
• Promoters, Riders, and Green M&Ms:
  • Classic Van Halen story: green M&Ms in the rider as a QA check for venues (87:13).
• The CIA, IRS, and Ticketing:
  • Wild real stories about the role of CIA and tax-evaders in shaping corporate U.S. ticketing ([83:13–85:46]).
• Internet/AI Deception:
  • Speculation on fake social media comments, dead internet theory, and how to plant fake stories in history ([119:30–123:11]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On monopoly power: “Who else would be reporting on Bigfoot other than the Bigfoot Society?” —PFT Commenter [07:47]; used again as an analogy for Ticketmaster’s information control.
• On artists fighting back: “If you work with Pearl Jam, we’re gonna come in and f*** you.”—Pat Cassidy, as recounted of the Ticketmaster pressure campaign [98:08]
• On the Live Nation merger: “Here’s the other thing. They also own Roc Nation ... So it’s the artist and the fan that’s getting screwed here.” —Pat Cassidy [107:07]
• On the settlement: “The result is bullshit. It’s a nothing burger... Sure, it’s some good, but...it’s some good, but the result is bullshit.” —Pat Cassidy [111:33]

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Memorable Tangents & Banter

• Bigfoot Sightings & Portage County, OH:
  • Joking about a wave of Bigfoot sightings, gentrification, and suspicious witness statements (4:01–8:02).
• World Baseball Classic Meltdown:
  • Riff on Team USA manager Mark DeRosa’s errors and failures, overlapping with critiques of American attitudes toward international sports (25:11–36:58).
• NBA “Unethical Hooper” meme and Bam Adebayo’s scoring binge:
  • “There’s no cheap way to get 83.” —Pat Cassidy [41:34]
• Kenny Chesney poster story:
  • Pat’s “most homoerotic” and awkward music business gig [23:11–24:57].
• Fake newspaper archives to create conspiracies:
  • “That’s actually a really dangerous idea.”—Big T [123:20]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Napster & Music Industry Digital Revolution – 12:03–21:29
• Artist/Venue Economics & Live Nation Takeover – 66:46–73:18
• Pearl Jam vs. Ticketmaster Story – 94:45–104:50
• Recent Ticketmaster Lawsuit & Settlement – 105:49–113:14
• AI, Internet fakes, and planting conspiracies – 119:30–123:56

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains Macrodosing’s signature blend of humor, deep subcultural knowledge, and ranting skepticism. The hosts trade stories with a healthy dose of cynicism and nostalgia, often swerving into tangents that illustrate the interconnectedness of money, power, and music. Pat Cassidy brings both comic irreverence and seasoned industry insight throughout the discussion.

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Conclusion

This episode offers an entertaining, eye-opening deep dive into the world of ticketing, music business, and the flawed structures that still define fans’ and artists’ live experiences. The Ticketmaster/Live Nation saga is presented not just as a business story, but as a parable about monopoly power, cultural change, and the ongoing fight between convenience, ethics, and profit in American entertainment.

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Memorable ending quote:
“They were the biggest band in the world. Right. But the only option that they had was to go play these kind of offbeat venues, which must have been a bummer for them because the one thing that these venues that are controlled by the conglomerate do have is the best concert going experience usually.” —Pat Cassidy [105:16]

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Transcript

[Big T]

Hey, macrodosing listeners, you can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter?

[Big T]

Right, and the best part, they accept Discover.

[PFT Commenter]

Except Discover in a little place like this.

[Pat Cassidy]

I don't think so, Jennifer. Oh, yeah.

[Big T]

Huh?

[Pat Cassidy]

Discover is accepted where I like to shop.

[Big T]

Come on, baby, get with the times.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right, so we shouldn't get the parachute pants. These are making a comeback, I think.

[Big T]

Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Pat Cassidy]

Thy ticket lady, Jennifer of Coolidge. Well, many thanks, good sir. Here is my Discover card.

[PFT Commenter]

They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs.

[Big T]

Yeah, they do here.

[Pat Cassidy]

Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it with the times.

[PFT Commenter]

With the times.

[Big T]

You're playing the loot.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?

[Big T]

Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[Pat Cassidy]

What Wallen song created a mosh pit?

[PFT Commenter]

No, no, I'm just saying, had I been in the pit for a concert and people started a mosh pit, I would be pissed, which is why I am an anti moshing advocate.

[Big T]

Got it. I don't think you're going to be in danger that at a Morgan Wallen show.

[PFT Commenter]

I agree. I'm just saying, if I happen to venture into one of those one day, that would.

[Big T]

Yeah, I could see you.

[PFT Commenter]

These are like, these are the concerts that Jack McCarthy goes to and, like a warehouse where they're. They're dealing. Molly. Like, I don't talk about raves. I don't run in those raves.

[Big T]

I would not call a rave a. A pit. Raves. It's just like, people are, like, dancing, but they. They're.

[PFT Commenter]

I don't know what you call them. Okay. I just know that I don't run in those circles. Foreign.

[Big T]

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[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, but the fact that you had a size 10 shoe when you were 10.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Big T always. He would shoe his age growing up.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right.

[Big T]

He would be nine. Size nine. 10. Size 10.

[Pat Cassidy]

Were they pumps?

[Big T]

And that stopped at age 16?

[PFT Commenter]

They had all sorts of stuff. 17.

[Pat Cassidy]

You're 17. Size 17 shoes.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's tough, man.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, it's gotten better in the last five years or so. I'd say. The companies are more accommodating.

[Pat Cassidy]

Have you been able to acquire, like, really excellent shoes that are, like, novelties?

[PFT Commenter]

No. And that's probably good. Well, so it goes. It's both extremes. You can either get stuff way cheaper than you would normally be able to or usually more often more expensive. But it's probably good for me because I would buy. I want to be like a shoe collector.

[Pat Cassidy]

Sure.

[PFT Commenter]

But I can't.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, but you can. And here's what you do. You tell everyone you know that you're a size 17 shoe, and then you ask everyone you know to be on the lookout for size 17 shoes. Size 17 shoes are going to come your way. Because now that I know I'm. I guarantee you in the next year, I will bring you a pair of shoes.

[PFT Commenter]

I mean, that'd be sick. That'd be very, very nice of you to do. I just like when, you know, when they do the drops and stuff of the Jordans and whatever, they always go up to a 15 and it's like, well, I. Right. I guess I'm not spending 250 bucks.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, but you don't want to be like everyone else.

[PFT Commenter]

That's true.

[Pat Cassidy]

Not.

[PFT Commenter]

That's true.

[Pat Cassidy]

Have you ever taken two shoes and cut. Cut them in half and then stitch them together to make a Franken shoe?

[PFT Commenter]

I have not. Have you?

[Pat Cassidy]

No. But I might do that for you, too.

[Big T]

Speaking of Bigfoot, there's several new sightings of Bigfoot.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, a lot.

[Big T]

How about that?

[Big D]

Portage County, Ohio.

[Big T]

Portage County.

[PFT Commenter]

Where is that?

[Big T]

Tell me about Portage County.

[Big D]

Portage county is actually up by me. It's a little bit southeast of Cleveland. It's like the Akron area. So actually it's kind of like. I don't think Tate is from there, but like Kent State is in Portage County. It's pretty rural. It's a lot of woods. You're on the edge there of a couple state parks, a place Bigfoot could be. Honestly, he's right on the edge. If you kind of go just west. He's in a little bit of uppity territory of Cleveland, so it makes sense that he kind of stopped right before then and he's kind of hanging out in the More rural farm area.

[Big T]

Almost, Almost gentrified.

[Big D]

He, he may be gentrifying Portage County.

[Pat Cassidy]

He's a contractor.

[Big D]

The county. Correct. Directly next to him is gentrified.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm seeing sightings in Mantua, Garretsville, Headwaters Trail and Windom.

[Pat Cassidy]

So it's not really about the Bigfoot sighting. It's about the person who sought Bigfoot. You know what I mean?

[PFT Commenter]

That to me, that's more six.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right. I want to meet those people. I don't really care.

[Big T]

It could just be one person going around making all these sightings.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right. Calling a local news interview with that person.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, so the, the descriptions vary. So on March 6th in Mantua, someone spotted a nine foot brown male. They claim on March 7th, also in

[Pat Cassidy]

Mantua, someone nine foot tall, brown, didn't have tits.

[PFT Commenter]

That's what it says. That the following day, also in Mantua, eight foot figure with a quote, deep vibrating grunt and oversized muddy Prince. On the 9th in Garrettsville, a hiker encountered an 8 foot Sasquatch with black fur. Also on the 9th and Headwaters Trail, 10 foot black figure with a stilt light gate and. And musky odor.

[Big T]

Okay. They were close enough to smell them.

[PFT Commenter]

That's, that's what it says. And then again on the 9th in Windham, a six foot brown figure spotted running with an impossibly long stride. So we have six to 10ft.

[Pat Cassidy]

Six, six long. A stride.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. I don't know how six feet you would arrive at Bigfoot other than the impossibly long stride.

[Big T]

Just a very long stride.

[PFT Commenter]

That could have just been a good runner.

[Pat Cassidy]

That must be a Bigfoot.

[Big T]

It could have been just a guy with a silly walk. Yeah, you never know. Okay. Well, yeah, it could, it feels like it could be like a group of people that's trying to.

[Pat Cassidy]

What's the source on all those sightings?

[PFT Commenter]

Bigfoot Society.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay.

[Big T]

Major Bigfoot surge in Portage County.

[PFT Commenter]

8,500 followers. But one of them is representative Tim Burchett from Knoxville. So he's, he's in on the.

[Pat Cassidy]

Tim Burchett?

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

That sounds like something he'd be interested.

[Big T]

The Bigfoot Society is tracking unprecedented cluster of activity. In just the last 96 hours, there have been five separate high credibility reports.

[PFT Commenter]

Guys, guys, I have to break in breaking news here. As of eight hours ago, there's been a seventh sighting in Tinker's Creek.

[Big T]

What's going on in the creek?

[PFT Commenter]

Last night around 8pm a mother and her daughter were traveling on route through at 303 heading west from Streetsboro toward Hudson when they came face to face with the unknown proximity extremely close. The witnesses were within three feet of the creature. The passenger noted she could have hit it as they drove past. The creature was in the road walking into oncoming traffic. A lean 6 foot 5 tall brown figure.

[Big D]

Have they just never seen a tall person? Six, five is.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. I mean that's, that could just be.

[Pat Cassidy]

So it looks like this is all coming for the Bigfoot Society, which is like, don't get me wrong.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, they're the if who would be doing this reporting.

[Pat Cassidy]

Don't get me wrong. That's what I'm saying. I mean, I, I.

[PFT Commenter]

No, that's like saying. That's like saying all the Max Crosby news is coming from espn.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's true.

[PFT Commenter]

As if that discredits it.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's true.

[PFT Commenter]

Who else would be reporting on Bigfoot other than the Bigfoot Society?

[Pat Cassidy]

That's a great point.

[Big T]

That's a good point.

[Big D]

I will say the Cuyahoga Valley national park is right there. So he may be living in the national park.

[Big T]

That'd be the best place for him to live.

[PFT Commenter]

Now do we think based on the different descriptions, I mean, 6 foot to 10 foot is a pretty drastic range. Do we think this is one Bigfoot or big five family?

[Big T]

It could be a family of big feet.

[Pat Cassidy]

A Harry and the Henderson situation.

[Big T]

Now how do we know? How do we have any idea if that first Bigfoot was a male?

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, right. That's what I'm saying. Okay, so here's. It has a huge Bigfoot hog. Yeah, that's just swinging. I mean the impossible stride. Think about it. If you're, if you're. How big is a Bigfoot foot? Do you think Big T?

[PFT Commenter]

I mean, someone say one of these is just six five. I'm six five. So it could be just size 17.

[Pat Cassidy]

I'm just saying. You got a 10 footer with an impossibly long stride.

[PFT Commenter]

Right.

[Pat Cassidy]

He's his dong must be just swinging from thigh to.

[PFT Commenter]

Would think. Yeah, you would think.

[Big D]

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[Big T]

That voice you hear is the beef.

[Pat Cassidy]

What's up?

[Big T]

It's Pat Cassidy on macrodosing. Pat's joining us today. We're going to be talking about Ticketmaster today in the Ticketmaster Live Nation merger. Slash lawsuits, slash history of the companies. I learned some stuff reading about this. I really did. I didn't know the full extent of Pearl Jam versus Ticketmaster.

[Pat Cassidy]

Dude, that was. That's the. That's the big thing.

[Big T]

Shout out to Pearl Jam.

[Pat Cassidy]

Big shout out to Pearl Jam.

[Big T]

I would love to talk to Eddie Vedder about, like, his. His experience dealing with that, because it turns Eddie Vedder was right. It's like, if you look back in the 90s, we clowned Eddie Vedder a little bit. We clowned lars for Metallica 100% a lot. We. We clowned Lars for going against Napster. In retrospect, it was kind of a pointless battle to fight, and he fought it like an asshole. And he was a dickhead about it, but he was kind of right about the forces behind the music industry and where things were going.

[Pat Cassidy]

Maybe I disagree with. With the Lars argument, okay? Because essentially he was saying, like a guy who was already worth tens of millions of dollars in the late 90s, it was going to end up being worth close to a billion dollars, was essentially saying, like, we can't survive. You're stealing our art. And not being progressive, not looking back and saying, sometimes technology will change the way business is done. But he already made it. Lars had already acquired his wealth.

[Big T]

That's true.

[Pat Cassidy]

I really didn't appreciate that.

[Big T]

It helped a lot of bands that were coming up, dude.

[Pat Cassidy]

It helped. So, like, think about this. The band the Gourds from Austin, Texas, right? They put that song on n the COVID of Gin and Juice, but the bluegrass cover did. That's like, that. That made their entire career and that got.

[Big T]

That cover of Gin and Juice got mislabeled.

[Pat Cassidy]

Mislabeled so hard.

[Big T]

What do you think? The most mislabeled song in the history

[Pat Cassidy]

of Gin and Juice. It's. I'm pretty sure by. By the Gourds labeled as, like, fish or someone else. Yeah, I'm almost positive.

[Big T]

I feel like Crazy Game of Poker was probably mislabeled a lot as being

[Pat Cassidy]

like, dispatch or Was it Dispatch or was it Oar? Or was it. What was the other one? That's pretty much those two.

[Big T]

There were some that were mislabeled as being from the Beatles too. Polyphonic Spree was mislabeled as the Beatles a lot.

[Pat Cassidy]

Big D, could you imagine this? Do you know what we're talking about?

[PFT Commenter]

I'm, I'm following, but I'm not really.

[Big T]

Oh, let's like. So I, let's go back in time.

[PFT Commenter]

Big T. Okay.

[Big T]

Okay. A young PFT is in his, his freshman year dorm at James Madison University.

[PFT Commenter]

So this is what year?

[Big T]

This is 2003. And I plugged my, my computer, my modem into the wall, right? And with a cord, the ethernet cord.

[PFT Commenter]

Listen, I'm, I consider myself a millennial. I'm, I'm on the, the border, but I consider myself a millennial, so I'm not. I had dial up Internet, I had vhs.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay. Now Big T, this, this screen that he's viewing, this information on curved.

[PFT Commenter]

Understand With a big ass. It had an ass.

[Big T]

It had a little bit of an ass to it. It was called a monitor. My, my roommate just brought in Madden and 2000.

[PFT Commenter]

Well that would have been Madden 04 with Michael Vic. One of the greatest video games of all time.

[Big T]

We, we would get mad at each other because we would switch up and he would put to on his team and Vic and to as a combination was unstoppable in that game.

[PFT Commenter]

Best Christmas present I ever got. Christmas of 2003. I got the original Xbox and Madden 04.

[Big T]

Fantastic game.

[PFT Commenter]

Yep.

[Big T]

He's got his, the Kiss poster on the wall. He has his Boondock Saints poster on the wall ready to go. The Kiss. Not, not the band, but the Kiss with the two chicks that were kissing

[Pat Cassidy]

in bed from tattoo. Oh, okay. Yeah. Poster. College Kiss poster.

[Big T]

Yeah. Another guy, my suite had the Pink Floyd album covers with the naked ladies. Yeah, that was a really sick one too. So I'm in my dorm room and we're like, let's download Napster. And then.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, I know what Napster.

[Big T]

And then he was like, no, I'm gonna download Morpheus.

[Pat Cassidy]

But I think Napster might have been cooked by the time. By 03.

[Big T]

It might have been cooked by that time. Yeah. So maybe I downloaded Morpheus or Limewire. Limewire. He might have downloaded Kaz.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Sean Parker, the guy who had sex with Dakota Johnson in the Facebook movie.

[Big T]

There you go.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right. Also Herndon, Virginia native.

[PFT Commenter]

Really?

[Big T]

Wow.

[Pat Cassidy]

A little fun fact for you.

[Big T]

Our Internet tentacles run deep.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, you Go on the Herndon, Virginia Wikipedia. And there's some notable names on there, very deep. Mine, his. Sean Parker's.

[PFT Commenter]

How about that? I'm still not on Old Hickory, Tennessee.

[Big T]

We got to fix that.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. I should be number two.

[Pat Cassidy]

I would help you out, but I'm banned for life.

[Big T]

Who are you behind again?

[PFT Commenter]

Bargozzi.

[Big T]

That's right. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Fair enough.

[Big T]

That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. So we go on, we log on, and then you can just download free music from anywhere, right onto your computer.

[Pat Cassidy]

And pornography.

[Big T]

And pornography. And if you're lucky enough to have a portable MP3, MP3 player, which. It looks kind of like a pager, then you can connect that to your computer. It'll take a couple hours, but you'll be able to upload all the songs. By all the songs, I mean, probably like 10 to 15 songs.

[Pat Cassidy]

No.

[Big T]

a time that you can put on your MP3.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, probably. And Big T, I'm going to warn you, if you're the type of guy who likes to have the proper artist and song name with maybe a uniformity to the labeling, you're fucked. You're gonna have a real hard time here. You're gonna have to download all those songs that run them through a separate program to relabel them with the proper artist. The album. If you have an ipod, I don't know, and you want it to be properly organized.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay, now, was all of this worth saving? 99 cents?

[Big T]

Yeah, because we had no money.

[Pat Cassidy]

Also, like here, Big T used to go to the record store and buy an album that you knew nothing about. You just heard the band name, you never heard it.

[PFT Commenter]

That's insane.

[Pat Cassidy]

And then. And then you forced yourself to like it, whether you liked it or not. I mean, there's so many records I bought that I was like, this is really good. And, like, retrospectively, it stunk.

[PFT Commenter]

But there's kind of a beauty in that, right? Because now when an album comes out, say, by your favorite artist and you. You listen to it and you're like, I don't like this.

[Pat Cassidy]

The new Gorillas came out.

[PFT Commenter]

Skip, skip, skip, skip, skip. And then it's just gone forever. Where it's. It's. It's like an arranged marriage situation. It's a.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right.

[PFT Commenter]

You grow warmer over time. You had no choice.

[Big T]

Yeah, but Pat's also right that you are more likely to convince yourself to like the music if you went out and you. You spent money on it. So you dropped, like, 20 bucks at best buy. You come home, you start listening to it, and you're like, this first song's not really for me. Second song is not really for me.

[Pat Cassidy]

And.

[Big T]

But you give that album another chance, then you give it a third chance, maybe even a fourth chance, because you're like, I spent money on it, and I'm smart, so I obviously made a good decision.

[PFT Commenter]

Right.

[Big T]

I just haven't caught up with my own brain yet as to how good these songs actually are.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, you're also psychologically describing the roadmap to a hit song, okay? No song is a hit song when it first gets played. The reason a song becomes a hit and for years and years, decades and decades, because big radio would say, this is a hit, and they would force you to listen to it multiple times. And, like, the third time you hear, like, I kind of like this song. That's the psychology behind it.

[Big T]

I said, that's. That's the number one hit record.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's a hit record. A big T. Let me lay one more thing down for you. No discovery feature on these apps. Kind of like OnlyFans. Okay. You got to know what you're looking for when you go on there, okay? It's not going to suggest an album for you.

[PFT Commenter]

Right.

[Pat Cassidy]

You got to have to. Your roommate says, hey, download that. Download Dispatch song. Crazy game of poker.

[Big T]

You like spatch, dude? You like spatch? Have you heard of the new Spatch track?

[Pat Cassidy]

You spatch guy?

[PFT Commenter]

I've. I've. I've been lost at this point.

[Big T]

Okay, so. So you go on Dispatch.

[PFT Commenter]

Is that a dis.

[Big T]

No, that's what you call dispatch. If you were cool, you didn't want to pronounce the whole thing.

[PFT Commenter]

You dispatch.

[Big T]

You're a busy man with places to go. Yeah, Dispatch. Save yourself some time.

[Pat Cassidy]

Dispatch Tree.

[PFT Commenter]

Why say lot word when few word do trick?

[Big T]

Exactly. Like D and B instead of Dave Matthew Matthews Band. Yeah. Or you just call him Dave if you're from Charlottesville. But yeah, you would have to go search for these songs, and then they would all be mislabeled because whoever, like, initially, God bless the people that, like, put their. Their CDs into their CD ROM, uploaded them to the file sharing service, like, tried to label them. They were doing God's work.

[Pat Cassidy]

They were also putting themselves directly in the line of the law.

[Big T]

Yeah. So you would be. You would be able to download these songs from. From anywhere, get them on your computer. And then I think it was the Department of justice in, like, 2002, 2003, started, like, actively going after college kids that were downloading, like, Single albums at a time. Not, like, for massive amounts of downloads. But if it was, like, certain bands, they would, like, you get a letter, they would throw the book at you. And they. Some kids got in real trouble for it back in the day. So it was also, like the added thrill of you're breaking the law when you're doing this. But, yeah, there's so many mislabeled things stuck in the middle of. With you. Was Bob Dylan.

[Pat Cassidy]

Not Steelers. Whee.

[Big T]

No, it was Bob Dylan.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay.

[Big T]

As far as this. This labeling service was concerned, what was. I'm trying to remember what they had for. For dispatch, there was a certain band that was just substituted for dispatch.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, it could have been Guster.

[Big T]

Could have been Guster.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right in that same vibe.

[Big T]

Yeah. Guster was big back then, too. But, yeah, no shoes.

[Pat Cassidy]

These guys weren't wearing shoes when they

[PFT Commenter]

were playing Big T. Y' all are just saying a lot of words that somehow they. They sound like they go together, right? But they. But then you.

[Pat Cassidy]

You.

[PFT Commenter]

You hear them, and I just don't know what's going on.

[Big T]

It's like, if you're looking up, like, a song from the Beatles, let's say, and like, I want to download. I want to download an old Beatles track. You would type in the Beatles, and there would be a song that would come up that would be called, like, the Beatles Honky tonk Woman. And you download that, and then you'd go on your. Your day thinking that Honky Tonk Woman was a song by the Beatles.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right.

[Big T]

When it was actually by the Rolling

[Pat Cassidy]

Stones or, like, Lincoln Park, a song titled Somewhere I Belong. Okay. Was actually by a band called Headway. But people that. See, that's the worst situation when you're a young band or a new band or an independent band, and then some major label band just gets squatted on top of you from a labeling perspective. So, like, headway could be crushing it right now. I mean, it was the wild west. Big T stars were being made overnight. Okay. But there was no way to connect the dots. There was no way to get on there and be like, no, no, it's me. Headway.

[Big T]

That's.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's headway, not Lincoln Park.

[Big T]

Mm.

[PFT Commenter]

What percentage of people were doing this as opposed to just downloading the songs on itunes?

[Pat Cassidy]

There was no itunes.

[Big T]

No iTunes back then.

[Pat Cassidy]

ITunes.

[Big T]

2003, I think iTunes was about to get.

[PFT Commenter]

I guarantee you, you're wrong.

[Big T]

Okay, I might be wrong, but nobody really used it.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, that was my question.

[Pat Cassidy]

ITunes, for me, 2001.

[Big T]

Okay, for me, itunes didn't really kick off until, like, 2004. 2005.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right. With the U2 commercials. I mean, I would say 80% of people are doing this versus iTunes. No one was downloading on itunes. No.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Were you a seeder? Did you seed?

[Big T]

What do you mean?

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, so, Big T, here's something you should know. You could download. Okay. You could take.

[PFT Commenter]

Sure.

[Pat Cassidy]

But it was a community, and you also were expected to give.

[Big T]

Oh, yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay. So, like, you downloaded a song. You could then leave your Kaza or Limewire Napster open and have others come download from you because it's peer to peer decentralized. But you could also click that off. Okay. If you didn't want them occupying your Internet, coming in your house and taking part of the song from you, what

[PFT Commenter]

would be the benefit of someone downloading it from you as opposed to wherever you downloaded it from?

[Pat Cassidy]

Because you're a cedar. So, like, let's say there's like 900 people had that song. Right? Then you could get it way faster versus, like, it was a rare song and one person was seating it and, like, fucking 50 people were trying to download that one. Seed. You have to wait in line.

[PFT Commenter]

Interesting.

[Pat Cassidy]

A lot of people weren't theaters. No.

[Big T]

Some people were just takers.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, they're just takers.

[Big T]

I think I did leave my computer. You seated a little bit. But, yeah, it was a. It was a wild time to log online. Wild time. And you're Pat's right. It's like you would. You would get embarrassed, like, two years down the line when you'd be like, hey, have you heard the through that Goo Goo Doll song? I'll Be right.

[Pat Cassidy]

Or Kiss by a Rose by Boys to Men.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, I bet they could do a hell of a version of that.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, 100. Those guys love prostitutes, I'll tell you that much.

[PFT Commenter]

Really?

[Pat Cassidy]

This is the music business episode, right?

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. How did we get here?

[Big T]

Allegedly.

[PFT Commenter]

Also, who'd you say did all be?

[Big T]

Google dolls.

[PFT Commenter]

That would be good, too.

[Pat Cassidy]

No, I was Edward McCain.

[Big T]

Yeah, I know, but. No, I know that 10 years down the line, you refer the song.

[Pat Cassidy]

I don't think you know that.

[Big T]

Google Dolls.

[PFT Commenter]

I knew that.

[Big T]

Oh, yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Who. Who do you. Who do you guys think? Quick trivia question. Big up to Edwin McCain, who put Ed McCain on the map. There was. There was. There was a. Stamped a huge band that went to bat for Edward McCain and said, we don't go unless Edwin McCain comes. Foo.

[Big T]

Foo Fighters.

[PFT Commenter]

Is it. Is it like, same style of music?

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Same vibe, same Vibe, in fact. In fact, they probably had a bunch of mislabels on Kaza and Limewire, a South Carolina band.

[Big T]

Oh, Hootie.

[Pat Cassidy]

Hootie. Yeah. Hootie went to bat for Edwin.

[PFT Commenter]

Really good for them.

[Pat Cassidy]

They ride together.

[Big T]

Hoodie seems like a guy with good head on his shoulders.

[Pat Cassidy]

100.

[Big T]

He got famous, and he's like, I just want to. I just want to go to sports games, man. Just like, put me on a jet, take me to sports.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, he hates Tennessee.

[Pat Cassidy]

What?

[PFT Commenter]

Like, a lot. I kind of respect and unduly amount for.

[Big T]

For a guy that is somewhat in the country music space, to be public about hating Tennessee, given his South Carolina fandom. I respect that. That means it's.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. No, yeah. I respect when. When celebrities actually care about sports, because there are a lot who say they do and they don't. Kenny Chesney, thousand percent.

[Pat Cassidy]

He cares about sports.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, he's been a fan of every. So he's from Knoxville.

[Pat Cassidy]

Sure.

[PFT Commenter]

He claims to be a Tennessee fan, but he's been a fan of everyone. He's been, I think, a Virginia Tech guy at one point.

[Pat Cassidy]

He's fair weather.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

I got to tell you a Kenny Chesney story. Probably the worst gig I ever had in the music business by far. And I'm just gonna say 100% the worst gig I had. The music business. Kenny Chesney was coming to Charlottesville, Virginia, and Charlottesville, Virginia, tertiary market, college town. It has a big arena, John Paul Joe's Arena. And it gets acts that it should not. Right. Because of Dave Matthews Band and Red Light Management is one of the biggest management companies in the country. And Corin Capshaw, who owns all those venues, huge acts come in that, like, really Charlottesville cannot support. Like, the Rolling Stones played there. Kenny Chesney's coming. He happens to live next door to Corin Capshaw. Dave Matthews, manager down in the. In the Bahamas. They have houses together. So it's like a very special show that Korn wants to make sure does really well. So they go hard on promotion. Hard on this Kenny Chesney promotion. I don't know shit about Kenny Chesney at this time. I know nothing. But I do know that they put a gigantic stack of posters in my hand, and on this poster was a shirtless Kenny Chesney, and he looked like he had Peck implants. Again, I didn't know much about Kenny Chesney at the time. It was a very homoerotic post, tell you that much. And my job was to drive to all the small Towns surrounding Charlottesville and Virginia. And poster. That Kenny Chesney poster everywhere I could. And look, if you go into a small town in Virginia, there's a couple places that are the center of hang. One of which is the barbershop, because there's just not that many places to hang posters. But it was very important. This show did well. So I, for three days, had to go into barbershops and say, hey, guys, any chance I could hang up this. There's a country music show in Charlottesville. Hang up this Kenny Chessing poster. Bust that poster out. What in the world is that? What is that man doing?

[Big T]

I thought it was a good country boy.

[Pat Cassidy]

Tough gig.

[Big T]

Put a shirt on that man. Then we'll talk. Yeah, Big T. I want to jump into something before we get back into Ticketmaster, because there's a big story going on in the sports world. I'm sure you're fired up about it. In fact, I know you are.

[PFT Commenter]

There are two big ones. I'm only fired up about one of them.

[Big T]

I hope it's World Baseball Classic.

[PFT Commenter]

Yep. Okay. I am fired up. Mark Derosa should be in prison.

[Big T]

Okay, so Mark Derosa, the manager of Team usa.

[PFT Commenter]

He used that term loosely.

[Big T]

We do. We do. He went on a talk show yesterday on MLB Network. Right. And this is prior. This is prior to their game against

[PFT Commenter]

Italy, by the way. When this comes out, we'll know what happened.

[Big T]

So, like, choose your own adventure. Either the US has been eliminated from the World Baseball Classic, or we advance due to dumb luck, which would be.

[PFT Commenter]

It'd be the biggest failure in the history of American.

[Pat Cassidy]

Absolutely not. Could you look at the roster of the Italy team? Because I woke up.

[PFT Commenter]

They're fine.

[Pat Cassidy]

I woke up last night, I said, we lost to fucking Italy. Let me. Let me see who's on this roster. It's a bunch of wannabe guys with Italian names who are MLB players.

[PFT Commenter]

Correct.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

Which is another problem I have and we've discussed on this show. Those guys should.

[Pat Cassidy]

Italy.

[PFT Commenter]

Those guys should lose those. Their American passports. But it's not. It's not that we lost. It's that we lost in. The manager said.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

He thought we had already advanced.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right. And that's. That's your one job of.

[PFT Commenter]

Of the things you should know. I feel like that's got to be one.

[Big D]

If he hasn't been a manager for, like. Or was he ever even a manager?

[PFT Commenter]

No, he's only managed, like, the World Baseball Classic teams, and maybe he's rusty.

[Pat Cassidy]

And to his credit, he was like, well, with. If you carry the one on the division. Plus it's.

[PFT Commenter]

It's saying.

[Pat Cassidy]

And the point values.

[PFT Commenter]

And so he started backups yesterday. Guys who suck.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay. I didn't see this.

[PFT Commenter]

Like Paul Goldschmidt, who's a thousand years old, and Gunner Henderson, who's a good player but shouldn't have been playing well.

[Big T]

Gunner Henderson played well.

[PFT Commenter]

Did he have a hit last night?

[Big T]

I think he had a home run.

[PFT Commenter]

Gunner.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

I think he won yard last PCA had two.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Former. Former guest on the show, Bryce Tang

[PFT Commenter]

had a good game. Yeah.

[Big T]

I think Gunner went yard, but he

[PFT Commenter]

did make moves regardless. Bregman didn't play. That was the thing. Gunner played over Bregman, who. You know, either way, he thought. DeRosa thought, by the way, Italian name. Interesting how that works, right. DeRosa thought they'd already advanced, said it publicly. And then you can see in, like, the seventh or eighth inning, when he found out that he was warming up Clayton Kershaw to come in and, like, have a farewell tour.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

And then they. Someone told him, I guess, hey, we actually need to prevent them from scoring because we're going to have to rely on them tomorrow.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

And then he put Mason Miller in.

[Big T]

So Gunner Henderson, he went yard, but he went one for five.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay. I mean, that's fine.

[Big T]

It's fine. But, yeah, the point still stands, which is he had no idea. I would imagine that at some point that night, the manager's talking to the team. He probably said something to the team about, we've already qualified.

[PFT Commenter]

He said it on tv.

[Big T]

So he probably said that.

[PFT Commenter]

Yes.

[Pat Cassidy]

Take your foot off the gas here.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. He said. And then he said in the pregame press conference, you know, we've got some guys that are dragging after last night. Like. Like, they partied.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Did no one on the team not

[Pat Cassidy]

know if he was lifted tonight?

[Big T]

Math is not the strongest to the United States. Never has been. It's very American for him to be like. Well, based on vibes. It did feel. I thought that we had advanced, too.

[PFT Commenter]

I. I knew we didn't, and I haven't. Following that close.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Because they showed they were like, there's still death. There's still three teams that could advance.

[Big T]

Yeah, we're in the group of death. So it was. It's us, Italy, Mexico are the three teams now tonight, Italy played against Mexico. And if Italy won, then we advance, right?

[PFT Commenter]

Yes.

[Big T]

Or if Mexico won and scored more than five or five runs.

[PFT Commenter]

Five runs.

[Big T]

Five runs or more.

[PFT Commenter]

Yes.

[Big T]

Then we advance. I'm wearing my Italian jersey.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, dude.

[Pat Cassidy]

Dang.

[Big T]

I'm rooting for Italy today.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, that's true.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right.

[PFT Commenter]

I guess if those two teams were smart, they'd make a handshake agreement before the game. Listen, we're just going to take every pitch for eight innings.

[Big T]

Can you imagine?

[PFT Commenter]

Nobody scores. And then they go out there in the ninth and it'll lead. Just intentional walk four times, Mexico wins, one, nothing. They both advance.

[Big T]

Can you imagine?

[Pat Cassidy]

Holy shit. I can't think of an instance in sports where that's ever existed. Both teams could go.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

By tanking.

[PFT Commenter]

There was a tie thing.

[Big T]

It was the Raiders and the Chargers.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

In week 17 or 16. I forget when it was. I think it was the last game. Yeah. Yeah, but I don't. It was after this, the. Yeah, whatever, 17 game schedule. But it was the last week of the season and it was the last game of the weekend. So it was like Sunday night, right?

[PFT Commenter]

Yes.

[Big T]

And so it was like, if these two teams tie, then they both go. And it looked like it was going to be a tie coming down to the very end, but then there was a field goal kicked and it was. Yeah, it was not a tie, but, yeah, they could do that. I think there's too many American players on Italy to do that, though.

[Pat Cassidy]

I mean, it's 90American players. And also in Mexico, 90% American.

[Big T]

I thought it was very. It's very zoomer of the. The two teams to be playing, one with I on their hat, the other with us on their hat and the eyes.

[Pat Cassidy]

1.

[Big T]

Very selfish. Yeah, selfish.

[PFT Commenter]

Wait, so you think. You think the Americans on the team, Italy, would want the US to advance?

[Big T]

They should.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, I don't.

[Big T]

I mean, you think that Americans, Italy, would do a handshake agreement with the Mexican?

[PFT Commenter]

I think they. They were. Did you see them last night? I mean, they were buzzing, right.

[Big T]

They were excited to beat the United States.

[PFT Commenter]

Right.

[Big T]

They're.

[PFT Commenter]

They're winning an important game competitively. It behooves them to not have the US Advance.

[Big T]

I feel like at a certain point, if. If you're Vinnie Pasquatino, you can't.

[Pat Cassidy]

Look.

[PFT Commenter]

Who I liked until last night has been in this office. Great guy, super fun. I don't like him anymore.

[Big T]

How are you going to look yourself in the mirror, Vinnie, if you do a secret handshake deal with the Mexican team, thereby eliminating the United States because you didn't feel like competing? That's not the Vinnie Pasquatino I know.

[PFT Commenter]

They already competed and kicked our ass. They did, Pat. But I said what you. You Objected when I said not making it out of the group in the World Baseball Classic will be the biggest failure of American international sports.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's. And it's not, because it's a bunch of Americans playing a bunch of Americans playing a bunch of Canadian.

[PFT Commenter]

So you're saying because the other teams have American 100% now, it doesn't matter.

[Pat Cassidy]

So here are the only teams that matter in the World Baseball Classic. The Latin American teams, right? And the U.S. the Japanese teams. That's it. And Canada. That's it. The rest of it is like, come on, Italy. Like, dude, my buddy Shlomo was the pitcher for Israel, and I was like, how'd you get in here? He's like, well, you're American. He's like, yeah, man. But, like, I get to pitch finally. Again, like, it's. It's absolute bullshit. I can't believe I. I haven't been following. So I thought to myself, like, man, I can't wait to see how many British baseball players I didn't even know was big over there. Wait a minute. These guys are all major leaguers.

[Big T]

It's disgusting.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, it's disgusting.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, I talked about this during the Olympics that, you know, you should have to play for where you're actually from. But the. Our team is still the best team by far.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay, I take it back. Czech Republic is a legit team.

[PFT Commenter]

Yes. They had a. They had an. Did you see the electrician?

[Pat Cassidy]

No.

[PFT Commenter]

Their. Their best starting pitcher is an electrician, and they got him to, like, join that.

[Pat Cassidy]

He.

[PFT Commenter]

He. I guess he retired or whatever, and he came out and threw, like, a ton of pitches, and the Japanese crowd was going nuts for him.

[Pat Cassidy]

And also, what a great nickname, the electrician for a pitcher. Dude, that's a great sports story, too. That is what it's cool about. The World Baseball Classic. My buddy Shlomo is a concert promoter, and he hadn't played baseball in forever, but they needed bodies out there, so it's like he got to go represent his country. Yeah, the electrician.

[Big T]

Right, the electrician. And then. Yeah, when. When the Tokyo Dome gave him a standing round of applause when he walked out the field. That was an incredible moment.

[PFT Commenter]

I want there to be real consequences if we did not make it out of the group in this.

[Pat Cassidy]

Like what? Like what kind of like, I want

[PFT Commenter]

the players booed for the first several weeks of the season, home and away. I want Mark DeRosa to never have anything to do with U.S. baseball or any.

[Pat Cassidy]

You're treating it like U.S. soccer. You're treating it. You're treating this World baseball classic like U.S. soccer.

[PFT Commenter]

The other play, if. Go ask the Latin American players, they. They'll.

[Pat Cassidy]

I can't. I don't speak Spanish.

[PFT Commenter]

Right. But I think it was Junior Caminero. I forget who. Or it was Kike Hernandez. He was like, I've played in five World Series. This means more to me. They treat this like it is the biggest thing in baseball. And we don't.

[Pat Cassidy]

Because we in this country don't even treat this sport like it's a ticket out. Like, I do.

[PFT Commenter]

I think in the last three years, like, baseball has really been on an upswing.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Like, it's popular again. Shohei is massive star. Like, and this is the. And we lose the last one. So we're like, okay, we're going to go fuck people up in this.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, yeah, I could see that.

[PFT Commenter]

And we lose to Italy because our manager doesn't know that we needed to win. It's. It's insane.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's a confusing point system. Big T. I do have one question because I've not been following too closely, but I've seen a couple clips over the last couple weeks about some non handshakes going on.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

What's that situation about?

[Big T]

It was weird.

[PFT Commenter]

So the first I thought it was just pine pine tar, but then Cal, Raleigh and a Rosarena it seems like was real.

[Pat Cassidy]

So that's the one that just happened because they're on the same team on the Mariners together in mlb.

[PFT Commenter]

And I guess Raleigh had told him, like, don't do it. I won't shake your hand. And then a Rosarina did it anyway.

[Pat Cassidy]

And then a rosary came out. Said, I love his parents and his family, but he's a piece of.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Seems like he's lucky. He has good parents. Really mad.

[Big T]

And the way that he was talking about his parents was like, I just saw his parents last night. They both gave me a hug. Like, I know. I know where they are. Cal.

[PFT Commenter]

I love that. Out of Cal.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

We're.

[PFT Commenter]

We're out here competing. We're the United States. That's like the. The Kobe Pal Gasol thing that. That 08 Olympic documentary where he's like, first play, I know what they're running. I'm going to run through his chest.

[Big T]

Yeah. And he did it send a message.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Like, we're out there to compete. And now against Italy, I guess we. We didn't decide to compete, but no,

[Big T]

that was a friendly. Yeah, we treated that like a. Like a friendly. Which, by the way, Coach Pope from the United States Men's national team in soccer. He has banned the word friendly.

[PFT Commenter]

Love that.

[Big T]

He said there's no such thing as a friend. Love that in soccer.

[Pat Cassidy]

So what are they calling it?

[Big T]

You got there, you compete.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay.

[Big T]

I don't know what he calls it. Probably just. I don't know. I'll have to do some follow up journalism. But I heard him in an interview where he was just like it's a terrible word.

[Pat Cassidy]

We don't.

[Big T]

We don't say the word friendly anymore. So that game against Germany might be big one.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, they were going to care about that anyway.

[Big T]

Real big one. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

What is currently the biggest failure of American team USA Sports. It was probably missing the World Cup.

[Big T]

That was bad. No, I would say the US Basketball team.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right. We didn't win.

[Big T]

Not winning the gold medal in 2004. This Argentina beat us. Right.

[PFT Commenter]

I forget.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yep. There's no use in basketball.

[PFT Commenter]

But we also weren't sending like the best guys then.

[Big T]

We. We were sending a group of guys that were sick at dunking and there was no real team.

[PFT Commenter]

So was that like Vince Carter and those guys?

[Big T]

Yeah, it was. It was a bunch of like swing men that were all good at AI.

[Pat Cassidy]

Tim Duncan, LeBron, Dwyane Wade.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

Mello. It's pretty good. I mean it's a pretty good little team.

[Big T]

It was before LeBron and Mellow were

[Pat Cassidy]

Stefan Marbury, LeBron and Mello Boozer.

[PFT Commenter]

Is that a Mecca?

[Pat Cassidy]

Tim Duncan. Yeah, I mean Lamar Odom. I mean that's. That's an all star team. On an all star team, dude.

[PFT Commenter]

No. Yeah, that. That is true. I just remembered that.08 they called the. The Redeem team and that's when we were like, okay, we're getting everybody.

[Big T]

Yeah. 2004 was.

[PFT Commenter]

That's a good. That team should have won.

[Big T]

That was bad. That was embarrassing.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's bad.

[Big T]

But yeah, that's probably the.

[Pat Cassidy]

We lost our opening game to puerto Rico by 19 points.

[PFT Commenter]

Just to give an idea in the real Olympics. That wasn't like a pre.

[Pat Cassidy]

No, that was.

[PFT Commenter]

That was okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

That's disgusting.

[Big T]

The actual. Oly.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. It ended their 24 game Olympic winning streak since 1992.

[PFT Commenter]

So yeah, that's probably worse. But like this would.

[Pat Cassidy]

They lost the group stage game to Lithuania.

[Big T]

It was bad.

[Pat Cassidy]

The semifinal game to Argentina.

[Big T]

It was really bad. Where Was this hosted?

[PFT Commenter]

2004 was Greece. Yeah.

[Big T]

It was a real shame.

[Pat Cassidy]

It was Larry Brown's fault.

[Big T]

Larry Brown's coach.

[PFT Commenter]

So many teams.

[Big T]

Yeah, he's probably. It'd be interesting to see like you Know when they do. This person's gotten hits off of 2% of every pitcher that's ever pitched.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

How many. What percentage of NBA players has Larry Brown at one point coached?

[Pat Cassidy]

It's a good question.

[Big T]

It would be higher than you think.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Speaking of the NBA, congrats to Bam Bam Adebayo, now the second leading scorer in NBA history for a single game.

[PFT Commenter]

Highest that we can prove.

[Big T]

High. So we can prove that there's. That there's footage.

[Pat Cassidy]

I mean they can prove the Wilt. The still game. They can prove it.

[PFT Commenter]

That's what they say.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's what they say.

[PFT Commenter]

Yet.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay. I believe it was recently dug into and I think there was like a transcript of a radio broadcast.

[PFT Commenter]

I. For the record, I think it happened.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay, but. Well, you don't sound like you think it happened.

[PFT Commenter]

We don't know.

[Big T]

It's fun to pretend.

[PFT Commenter]

You know who claims to was Jesus?

[Pat Cassidy]

A real person?

[PFT Commenter]

Big T. Well, we have more evidence of that than Caesar. But regardless, you know who claims to have like the one tape of that game? Josh Passner, who was the Memphis and Georgia Tech basketball coach, I think. Is it unlv now he says his like grandfather or something had. Was the. The mop boy for the. Was it the Philadelphia warriors at the time or whatever team it was and said that like he had a reel to reel tape of the game starting

[Pat Cassidy]

at like 50 points as a mop boy does. Because think about how big a reel to reel was back then. He had to like take take a break from his mopping, go put it on a car.

[PFT Commenter]

I don't know how it in. Let me see if we can find this.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay, so that's why, that's why he held up the 83 point paper yesterday. Because Wilt is still held up 100.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

I thought that was kind of.

[Big T]

That's reference.

[Pat Cassidy]

Kind of a shitty celebration. Someone wrote 83 on a piece again, Peter.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh yeah. You didn't know?

[Pat Cassidy]

I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

[PFT Commenter]

In January 2014 then Memphis Tigers head coach Josh Passner claimed that his father Hal Passner possessed a reel to reel tape of Wilt Chamberlain's legendary 100 point game for 3-2-1962. Hal Passner was reportedly close to Wilt even serving as a soda taste tester due to 100 point game fears of poisoning. This is the Google, I think it

[Pat Cassidy]

doesn't sound what a great job.

[PFT Commenter]

And recorded the game on reel to reel tape starting in the second quarter when it became clear a special performance was Happening.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's like the Book of Mormon, though. No one can listen to it but him.

[Big T]

Yeah, this is. I. I think that. I think that what Bam did last night is hilarious. And was it just bad? That's my final statement.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay.

[Big T]

It is a hilarious thing that he did, and it's hilarious that the Wizards kind of played along with it and that they serve as, like, minor characters in this. In this weird saga. The Wizards are just an embarrassment of a basketball team. And if you look at the wizard

[Pat Cassidy]

schedule, Trey Young wasn't. Wasn't out there yesterday.

[Big T]

If you look at the Wiz schedule for the next, like, five games, there's a few guys I could see hunting 80 points now that they know that it's possible against the Wizards. Like, they got Paulo. Paulo. Ben Caro's next. I could see Paulo hunting 80.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

If Bam did it, he's going to try to do it. I could see Cade Cunningham from the Pistons. You can see him trying to do it. I could see the Wizards are gonna let him. Tatum. Tatum's back. He's got something to prove. Yeah, he might try to hunt 80. And then I think they also have Shay. Right. SGA coming soon.

[Pat Cassidy]

So I think we got to hit the over on the Wizards game.

[Big T]

I think we just got it. We got to bet on the leading score.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, slam that over.

[Big T]

Bam's hitting 83 on him. It was. Yeah, it's just. It's very funny the way that that game shook out because his own team was trying to. Trying to juice the numbers. They were feeding him the ball. They knew they were going to beat the wizard, so it's like, let's try to get Bam as many.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's like a high school basketball game, dude.

[Big T]

How many. How many free throws did he shoot?

[PFT Commenter]

43.

[Big T]

43 free throws last night. It's just. It's good stuff. Now people are angry because they're like, is this. Is this a cheap way to get 83? He didn't deserve to pass.

[Pat Cassidy]

There's no cheap way to get 83.

[Big T]

Get 83 points.

[PFT Commenter]

I have a phrase I'd like to ban. I'm sick of seeing it. The unethical Hooper.

[Big T]

Yeah, I agree.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm. I'm done.

[Pat Cassidy]

What is that?

[PFT Commenter]

So that's what the kids say now. Like, if you shoot too many free throws, you're an unethical Hooper. You didn't do it the right way. So they say, SGA is unethical because he gets fouled a lot.

[Big T]

Why draws foul?

[Pat Cassidy]

But he's drawing the foul.

[PFT Commenter]

This Is what I say.

[Big T]

He also flops.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay?

[Big T]

And like, but like you watching different.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's insulting to the refs. Right?

[PFT Commenter]

But they just get mad at guys who shoot a lot of free throws.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's not fair. It's not their fault.

[PFT Commenter]

And you know what I say to that?

[Pat Cassidy]

That's blaming the victim.

[PFT Commenter]

You know what I say to that? If there was a really good player who didn't attempt a free throw the entire season, would people be upset about that? They'd say yes. They'd say like, you're not driving the ball. You're not. You're settling.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right.

[PFT Commenter]

So there, so there exists in these people's mind an acceptable number of free throws that you are to shoot.

[Pat Cassidy]

Who are these?

[PFT Commenter]

Which is ridiculous. The Internet. Okay, the youngsters.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, the youngsters are watching the NBA.

[PFT Commenter]

They claim to. The numbers never bear that out.

[Big T]

I think that there is a. I think there's a happy medium. Like, you can agree to that, right? Big T. Like, I think if you're

[PFT Commenter]

drawing fouls, you're doing your job and getting to the free throw where it's

[Big T]

like you, you watch James Harden play sometimes and he'll like jump into a guy.

[PFT Commenter]

To be clear, I don't watch any of these guys. I find it all unwatched.

[Big T]

Okay. All right.

[PFT Commenter]

But I, I think when you're playing basketball, your job is to. Is to get to the rim. And if, if they foul you go make your free throws. That's what bam.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right? Like, like your uncle who led the league in tactical fouls. Right? His job was to go out there and foul people. That was his gig.

[PFT Commenter]

Right?

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

We'll get technicals.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

You don't have to physically could just run your mouth. Yeah.

[Big T]

Tastytrade has a suite of probability tools so you can make smarter picks for your portfolio. Though it can't help you fill out your NCAA bracket, you can trade stocks, options, futures, and more all in one platform. Tastytrade offers low commissions, including zero commission

[Pat Cassidy]

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[Big T]

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[Pat Cassidy]

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[Big T]

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[Pat Cassidy]

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[Big T]

order tracking to manage their positions during crunch time. If you want to learn to trade or discover new strategies, Tastytrade has dozens

[Pat Cassidy]

of educational courses you can access for

[Big T]

free with your account. Get live stellar support from Tastytrade's Deep bench of experience. Trade desk reps during trading hours. Visit tastytrade.com forward/barstool today, Tastytrade Inc. Is a registered broker dealer and a member of finra, NFA and sipc. Then there's also another big story today, which is Max Crosby, the ongoing Max Crosby scandal. So where's he gonna go?

[Pat Cassidy]

Where's he gonna go?

[Big T]

So, all right, so he's gonna go. So he goes back to the Raiders.

[Pat Cassidy]

Get back there. Well, first, first, did you see the breakdown of how he didn't pass his physical? Physical? So this was interesting to me. It's a point system. So if he was a seventh rounder, he would have passed his physical.

[Big T]

What do you mean?

[Pat Cassidy]

So the way that the teams assess passing their physical or not is the value of the player and how much the club is investing in the player. So obviously a two first round pick investment is a massive investment. So that player needs to be, let's say, think about like a passing grade. That player needs to be like 95% an A or an A plus to pass the physical. If he was a seventh rounder, he could get a C and they'd give him a pass on the physical because it's not like he, you know, if he could never play again, it wouldn't be a conversation. But apparently that's the situation. It's weighted.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

So he had a very heavy weight

[Big T]

to pass, so he better be in tip top.

[Pat Cassidy]

Tip top.

[Big T]

Now that's interesting because he very publicly had surgery, so everybody knew that he was recovering.

[Pat Cassidy]

They knew he had surgery.

[Big T]

They knew he had.

[Pat Cassidy]

And he also played surgery. He played through two games and they sat him for, for two or three games. They knew that he was. He knew, they knew he could play.

[Big T]

They knew he wasn't healthy at the moment.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right.

[Big T]

So that, that shouldn't have been a surprise. So he gets sent back to, to Vegas and I think he's going to

[Pat Cassidy]

work well after a 13 minute showing up to the facility goodbye video. A 13 minute goodbye video.

[Big T]

Very long. So I think he's going to the team facility.

[Pat Cassidy]

I think he has to. He has to continue to rehab.

[Big T]

Yeah. So either the Raiders are going to keep him or other teams are going to make an offer. He's going to get traded again. Some people are like, well, now what is it? Our team's going to be trying to get a discount.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yes.

[Big T]

On a, an open box. Max Crosby, 100%. Like he already got traded once.

[Pat Cassidy]

He's missing a screw.

[Big T]

I think it's the other way Around, I think. I think he might be worth more now.

[Pat Cassidy]

I think the Raiders can't afford him. Now. I haven't done the math, but the Raiders spent huge.

[Big T]

I'm not a cap guy. They. They had a lot of.

[Pat Cassidy]

Not a cap guy.

[Big T]

They had a lot of cap space.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right.

[Big T]

So if one team is able to absorb, it might be the Raiders. But my guess is they spent all this money with the understanding that 100%. So Max comes back and I think he's. Now I'm going to take the other side. I think he's worth more.

[Pat Cassidy]

I'll.

[Big T]

I think his value just increased on the open market because he's pissed off.

[Pat Cassidy]

He's worth one first round pick.

[Big T]

I think now it's three. I think price, you think it's three pressed off Max Crosby. If he's going in the. If he's going in the AFC north where he gets to play against the Ravens twice a year. Like, if he's going to Pittsburgh, I'm not even going to throw the Bengals. Bengals are going to be looking for a discount.

[Pat Cassidy]

The Bengals just lost an edge. Right.

[Big T]

I know, but they're going to be looking for a deal.

[Pat Cassidy]

I'll tell you what is.

[Big T]

But if he goes to the Browns or if he goes to. To the Steelers, I feel like he's worth more now.

[Pat Cassidy]

I agree. What's crazy is that, is that the Ravens were ready to sign Trey Hendrickson to a four year deal.

[Big T]

It's crazy, isn't it?

[Pat Cassidy]

Right. So, like, obviously they had that cooking. I mean, that was ready to go. Max comes in. It was buyer's remorse. It was some buyer's remorse.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

And there's going to be hell to pay at the owner's meeting. Like this is going to be an issue.

[Big T]

Yeah. I think that Goodell has gone too far. He's become like quasi Adam Silver when it comes to the tampering stuff. Because. Because what was happening, the agents and the players and the teams were all breaking the rules. And so Roger Goodell was like, okay, I'll be the fun. I'll be the cool substitute teacher and I'll. I'll let you guys have this. So I'll make the thing that was illegal. I'll make it legal.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. If you're gonna drink, just do it in our house.

[Big T]

Yeah. Do it in my basement where I can keep an eye on you.

[Pat Cassidy]

Exactly.

[Big T]

And make sure you don't drive anywhere.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

And so he's like, we'll give you a legal.

[Pat Cassidy]

There's no sneaking girls in that window, though.

[Big T]

Right.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's just the boys drinking down there.

[Big T]

I'll give you legal tampering. And then next thing you know, there's a party in your basement and there's muddy shoes all over the floor.

[Pat Cassidy]

People are getting fingered.

[Big T]

Yeah. Some kids are smoking cigarettes inside. It's a tough. It's a tough situation.

[Pat Cassidy]

They introd a new rule this year, which was the one hour zoom call, which I thought. I think is interesting. So he's just kind of letting it happen. Like, but like, there's an interview now. You can just get on an interview for an hour, but it's just an hour.

[Big T]

What gets accomplished in a one hour zoom? Well, okay, here's an NFL player.

[Pat Cassidy]

I'll tell you what. Here's a. Here's a great idea. Let's say you were, I don't know, a potential super bowl contender out of, I don't know, like a mid Atlantic town, like Washington, D.C. and you're looking for a receiver. You get the quarterback on that zoom call. That's what could be accomplished.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's what could be accomplished. Quarterback shows up on the zoom call, and Alec Pierce is on the zoom call. Maybe he's like, okay, I like Jaden. I see what he's doing here.

[Big T]

That is true. Also, I think if you can get somebody to show up on a zoom call, it means it might be real.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's true.

[Big T]

Right.

[Pat Cassidy]

Turn your camera on.

[Big T]

Yeah. Like, if the guy's ready to go, I don't know. But if he's not ready to go and he's like super apologetic because he can't get the camera going, you know, he's not talking to any other teams.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right.

[Big T]

So you can do a little bit of like, background research on that.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right.

[Big T]

Depending on their preparation. Yeah, I think it's going to be. It's gonna be very interesting what they do with Max Cross.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's gonna be interesting who can afford

[Big T]

them now and who's reaching out, who wants them. If it's gonna be the same teams I wanted beforehand, it's the commies. I don't know.

[PFT Commenter]

So do we all agree?

[Big T]

I don't think so because we just got the guy from New England this morning.

[PFT Commenter]

Do we all agree the Ravens found out they could get Trey Hendrickson and then said, actually we'd like our first round picks Pack.

[Pat Cassidy]

I think Trey Hendrickson's value started going down when he wasn't dealt the first couple of days and he wanted 30. He ended up getting 28. I think they were like well, we can get over 28.

[Big T]

Yeah, I think they said. I think what happened was they traded for Crosby, theoretically, and then they got in touch with Trey Hendrickson's agent and said, we don't. Don't take our names off your call list just yet. Like, if the number goes down a little bit, we'd be very, very interested, motivated. And so then they knew that they had a ticking clock with Max Crosby coming to town and getting the physical done. And until that point was. Was reached, they were still talking to Trey Hendrickson's agent.

[PFT Commenter]

You know, everybody's talking shit about the Ravens right now, but if you think about it, Max Crosby for Trey Hendrickson and two first round picks might be the best trade of all time. They actually made a better trade.

[Pat Cassidy]

If you think the first one. If you think about it.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

If you consider Max Crosby to have been on the Ravens, which by all indications, he was. They traded Max Crosby for Trey Hendrickson and two first round picks.

[Big T]

It's a very, very good. Now they're different players. Max Crosby is.

[Pat Cassidy]

One's name is Max.

[Big T]

Yeah, one seems Max, but it was Max. Crosby is better against the run, but he's also very good against the past. Trey is just like pass rush specialist.

[Pat Cassidy]

You see his tweet today? Crosby's.

[Big T]

Oh, yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Three, 11. Six years sober.

[Big T]

Six years sober today.

[Pat Cassidy]

Imagine if it wasn't. You know what I mean?

[Big T]

Yeah. Now this is going to be. This is going to be an awesome.

[PFT Commenter]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. He got sober on the day that Covid started God's plan.

[Pat Cassidy]

God's plan, wow.

[PFT Commenter]

That's also today, right?

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Today. Six years ago, it was declared a global pandemic.

[Big T]

Yesterday was Rudy Gobert day, right?

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Where he touched all the microphones.

[Pat Cassidy]

I wish I could go back in time by Safemoon today.

[PFT Commenter]

I think today was the day. It was like the first round of all the conference tournaments, and they all canceled except the Big east, and it was St. John's playing.

[Big T]

Who was playing?

[PFT Commenter]

It might have been Xavier. I want to say it was a Navy team and there was nobody in msg.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

And they played, I think, half the game and then canceled it. And that was the last thing for eight months.

[Big T]

Then there was no sports until Korean baseball.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. Shout out to LG Twins. Those are my guys.

[Big T]

Shout out the Wyverns as a Wyverns man.

[PFT Commenter]

Really?

[Big T]

Huh? Skyverns, I believe.

[PFT Commenter]

I don't. I don't recall. Yeah, I was. I was waking up early to watch those games.

[Big T]

I mean, there was. There Was ball on tv.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

And it was so refreshing to see. That's crazy. Six years ago.

[PFT Commenter]

That actually is nuts.

[Big T]

Congrats. Congrats on not having to deal with that anymore. That sucked. That was a terrible, terrible six months.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, it was bad. I bought a bench, though.

[Big T]

Yeah, you did. He did.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Still haven't?

[Pat Cassidy]

No. Gave up on that.

[PFT Commenter]

Got rid of that.

[Big T]

I got really into peloton for like three months.

[Pat Cassidy]

I remember that. We do it Buns of Anarchy at

[Big T]

least once a day, sometimes twice a day. Talk about burnout, man. It sucked because I had to. I. I was competing against like the Booger McFarlands of the world and the former lineman that way, like £250.

[Pat Cassidy]

How'd you get in that crew?

[Big T]

Well, they, I, I tried to start a biking crew and gang. I would. Yeah, biker gang. And I would invite people that had been on part of my take to join if they had a peloton. And there were all these former athletes that used to be linemen, they weighed, you know, 250, 300 pounds. And they just mash back and forth with the resistance set all the way up to 100.

[Pat Cassidy]

Sure.

[Big T]

Let their body weight do the work and then they just punish me, crush me. Were you guys a team that's competitive,

[Pat Cassidy]

the board, you competing against each other or other teams?

[Big T]

No, it was, it was competitive, but also it's like respect, like beers after, you know, like, that's the real rugby vibe. Yeah. The post ride. Even though we're not in the same town or room as each other, the post ride was where it was at.

[PFT Commenter]

Just real quick before we do the. The Ticketmaster Hofstra made the NCAA tournament for the first time in forever. Do you know who their head coach is?

[Big T]

It is Speedy Claxton.

[PFT Commenter]

That's right. I had no idea.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Shout out. Former Atlanta Hawk.

[Big T]

There you go.

[PFT Commenter]

Feeling lucky.

[Big T]

You should be.

[PFT Commenter]

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[Big T]

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[PFT Commenter]

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[Big T]

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[PFT Commenter]

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[Big T]

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[PFT Commenter]

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[Big T]

So if you love true sweet tea, this one's a no brainer. Pick up a lucky one sweet tea today and give back one can at a time. Good for you, Big T. Good. Good week to be an Atlanta Hawk. You got Speedy Claxton representing. You've got Magic City Night.

[PFT Commenter]

Being rid of the scourge of Magic City. You know about that, Pat?

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, I saw it. I know about Magic City, the strip club.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's very instrumental in the music business. And I. And there's a. There's a neighbor of mine who got wings flown in from Magic City for, I guess, March Madness last year for some reason.

[PFT Commenter]

Really?

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, oh, they got good wings. I didn't know. And I know that NFL.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

NFLPA president was spending a lot of NFLPA dollars there a couple years ago. But what happened?

[PFT Commenter]

The Hawks were going to have Magic City Night with. They were going to have the wings and, like, special merch. And Luke Cornett, who plays for the spurs, was very upset about it because

[Pat Cassidy]

he's, like, a religious man probably. I mean, of any. Atlanta's interesting culture. And that's part of their culture. I mean, because, like, it specifically because of the music. Because if you want to find out if a song's a hit, then this is super cool. The first place you take is the strip club. So, like, if you make a banger in the studio and you celebrate with the boys. Let's. Let's go see if it's a hit. And then they go put it on at Magic City. And if ass cheeks start clapping, then you know that you did some good rapping.

[Big T]

It's legit.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. TI is performing at the game.

[Pat Cassidy]

100%.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. So that was. They were going to have Magic City Night. The NBA put a stop.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's upsetting. I mean, that's like. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Makes sense, though,

[Pat Cassidy]

I guess. Yeah. For the kids.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm not, like, terribly offended by it, but I also understand, like, you can't be having a strip club night as a professional sports organization.

[Big T]

It's weird. It's a. It's a weird collab to have.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, let me ask you this, Big T. When you were growing up, did you get taken to Hooters?

[PFT Commenter]

No.

[Pat Cassidy]

No. Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

No, because there were kids, they did

[Pat Cassidy]

get taken to Hooters on sports trips.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. So we were always. We were always a Buffalo Wild Wings.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

B. Dubs. Yeah. After baseball.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. Do you remember the Hooters guys?

[Big T]

Which Hooters guys?

[Pat Cassidy]

There was some kids we grew up with whose dads would be like, oh, yeah, let's kick it over to Hooters on a game trip.

[Big T]

They're. They're Hooters guys. There's. They're a similar cousin to a strip club guy.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right. That's what I'm saying.

[Big T]

But Hooters, guys, it's like, you can do that. You can do that for lunch, right?

[Pat Cassidy]

You have to when you're with a group of 12 year olds.

[Big T]

Keep it casual.

[PFT Commenter]

Now. Hooters. The. The wings are delicious. I order Hooters here. Delivery on college football Saturdays sometimes.

[Big D]

Wait, Hooters. Their fries are some of the best.

[PFT Commenter]

Yep. Curly fries.

[Pat Cassidy]

So, Big D, I would assume that you're doing that because of a nostalgia play because someone was taking you to hoodie.

[PFT Commenter]

No, I just think it's delicious.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay.

[Big T]

The Daytona wings.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Pat, I was actually just talking the other day about. About some of our buddies growing up and the fake IDs that some of them used to have, and I. I'd forgotten that we had. We had one buddy that was like 19, 20 years old, and he wanted to be the guy that bought beer

[Pat Cassidy]

for everybody in our group, which is an insane thing.

[Big T]

But he really wanted this responsibility.

[PFT Commenter]

No one wants more of an obligation.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's a fucking obligation.

[Big T]

It is not. But you don't realize at the time. You're just like trying to. Until you don't realize how much it will be. You're like, oh, I'm gonna buy beer for like my six best friends.

[Pat Cassidy]

Let me tell you how much of an obligation it is. Beach week two. So we're 19 years old. PFT and I are the two guys with IDs, and we're on a. We're like. We're like fucking slaves. Okay. We are at. In the morning, one of us has to take a shift. In the evening, one of us has to take a shift and risk arrest.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Going to the. Going to the grocery store to buy beer. And no one else could do it. They were. Who's going? Which one are you guys going this time? It's like, fuck you guys.

[PFT Commenter]

So get paid for that.

[Pat Cassidy]

Just in friendship and camaraderie.

[Big T]

Sometimes you would keep the extra five bucks. I keep the change. There was one friend that we had that was so committed to it, though. When he got his picture taken for his fake id, he shaved male pattern baldness into his head.

[Pat Cassidy]

I don't remember.

[Big T]

He gave himself the horseshoe. Wow, that goes back. And then he had his picture taken.

[PFT Commenter]

And he was supposed to be 22.

[Big T]

Yeah, pretty much. It was like a 22, 23 year old. But then every time he would have to like keep shaving it so it would match with his id.

[Pat Cassidy]

Commit to the bit yeah.

[Big T]

And then there was another guy that we had. He was a. He's in really good shape now. At the time, a heavy set. Ginger redhead, young man, great guy, great friend. Won't say his name, but at the time he was. He was somewhat portly, and he could pick any name that he wanted for his fake id.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, it's. It's your. It's your right. You want to pick something that's non conspicuous.

[Big T]

Do you know what name he chose for his fake ID?

[PFT Commenter]

McLovin.

[Big T]

Rasheed Wallace.

[PFT Commenter]

That's not true.

[Big T]

100. Swear to God. Put Rasheed Walt.

[PFT Commenter]

That's not true.

[Big T]

Rasheed Wallace was, I believe, on the Wizards when he got the id, Too. Or he. He might have just recently moved on to the Pistons. But, yeah, Rasheed Wallace was his name. And he was like, yeah. Did it work? 300 at. There was one store that it worked at in our town, but that was like a guy that probably knew that

[Pat Cassidy]

it was right next to the best wing place in town, too.

[Big T]

That is true. Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Which was what, the wing factory.

[Big T]

Wing factory growing up. Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

He was on the trailblazers in, oh, 2.

[PFT Commenter]

03. Okay.

[Big T]

But he had been on. On the Wizards.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. Before that, in 1995.

[Big T]

It's pretty crazy that the Wizards. The Wizards, had most of the Detroit Pistons, like superstar line or not superstar, but NBA Finals winning lineup.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

They had Ben Wallace at one point. They had Rasheed Wallace. They had Chauncey Billups, and I believe they had Rip Hamilton. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. One more fake ID story. Same. That same batch of fake IDs. Those guys that drove into D.C. to get them. Our one buddy didn't want to forget his address, so he put his address and he just reversed the numbers on it. And he rolled in to buy some beer. The ID got taken. And you better believe the private investigators. Not the private investigators, but the police rolled down that street, knocked on the door, showed the id, and they were like, oh, no, he lives across the street, that kid.

[Big T]

Not the smartest move. Not the smartest.

[PFT Commenter]

Y' all were in high school at this time?

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Yep. High school. Or either that or. Yeah. Freshman year.

[Pat Cassidy]

No, by college. By the time college came around, PFT and I took. Took the reins over and did you go to jmu? Yeah. Started making some high quality.

[Big T]

Yeah. Except Pat had. We had some Massachusetts IDs.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

And they were from Worcester, Mass.

[Pat Cassidy]

Worcester.

[Big T]

And then some of us didn't know how to pronounce Worcester.

[Pat Cassidy]

Thought it was Worcester.

[Big T]

It said Worcester, and then that didn't fly Too high. With some of the bouncers that were from. From Massachusetts.

[Pat Cassidy]

Are you from Mass? Yeah, Worcester.

[Big T]

Like, get the out of here.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, that would be tough.

[Big T]

Looks like Daniel Jones returning to the Colts officially. What, about $88 million?

[PFT Commenter]

Good for him.

[Big T]

Yeah, great for him. All right, you guys want to talk Ticketmaster?

[Pat Cassidy]

Let's talk ticket.

[Big T]

Ticket Master. It's brought to you by Sell Blue Coffee. I had some Stella Blue this morning. I had espresso sweet cream. Pat, what'd you have?

[Pat Cassidy]

I had the espresso cafe mocha. It was fantastic.

[Big T]

Yeah, they're really good. And they're doing their golden mug right now. So one winner is going to get two tickets to the men's college basketball national championship game. But that's not all. Nine other winners are going to receive a barstool Chicago HQ experience with one friend.

[Pat Cassidy]

Wow.

[Big T]

Buy anything on Stella Blue Coffee.com from Wednesday, March 11 to Friday, March 13. To get entered. Buying cans will count as 10 times the entries, so you're going to want to buy those cans. The lattes are made with 100 Colombian coffee. Each can is a good source of protein. Comes in two smooth flavors. Espresso, cafe mocha espresso sweet cream. Don't forget. Buy anything on stellabluecoffee.com from Wednesday, March 11 to Friday, March 13. Get entered to win two tickets to the men's College Basketball national championship, which will be a game played between the Florida Gators and the. I don't want to do a rematch, so I won't do a rematch. Florida Gators and the Duke Blue Devils.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, for sure.

[PFT Commenter]

Were you gonna say Houston?

[Big T]

I like Houston's. Oh, I know. I know. They've been bad recently.

[PFT Commenter]

No Stinky.

[Big T]

Just wait. Just wait.

[Pat Cassidy]

The boozers don't lose.

[Big T]

Just wait.

[PFT Commenter]

Duke without Foster.

[Big T]

And no Foster. No Patrick in Gongba. Yeah. Caleb Foster out, I think for the entire tournament.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, I think he's done, I would guess.

[Big T]

But Florida doesn't look like they. They can be beaten, except maybe by Duke, not Michigan. Michigan's very good, too. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Arizona.

[Pat Cassidy]

I like.

[Big T]

I like Arizona. I actually sneaky like Kansas. Wild card. Wild card. Wild card Kansas. And I like Michigan State.

[Pat Cassidy]

You like a lot of teams.

[Big T]

Oh, I do. I. I like college basketball. All right, let's talk Ticketmaster.

[PFT Commenter]

I've always said you're the number one college basketball guy you're watching in. In November.

[Big T]

No, I'm not at all. I watch. I watch one game a week, pretty much from November until the super bowl, sometimes two. And then after the super bowl, then I watch every night. And this is a fun week. March Madness is very fun, but no, I'm not the, I'm not a year round ball watcher.

[PFT Commenter]

Right. You're not a hoop head.

[Big T]

Not a hoop head. I, I, during football season, I can only think about football.

[PFT Commenter]

It's the difference between your brain and mine.

[Big T]

That's just me. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

More room.

[Big T]

I'm a serial monogamist when it comes to sports.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay.

[Big T]

I care about one sport very deeply at a time and then I move on to the next one. Yeah. Ticketmaster, or as Pearl Jam called them, ticket bastard. Got him. Pat, can you explain to us why Ticketmaster, Live Nation, why they're in the news this week?

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, of course. So it has to do with Taylor Swift. Kinda.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

Can you believe it?

[Big T]

No.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. So Taylor Swift, obviously the biggest touring artist in the world right now. She. Do you remember the debacle maybe a year ago where her tickets were going on sale and no one could log in, no one could get access to the tickets. Right. Well, a bunch of lawmakers, kids, or lawmakers for their kids, were trying to buy tickets. This is the first time that they experienced the failure of Ticketmaster. And it kind of started dawning on these lawmakers, like, wait a minute, Ticketmaster is taking these huge massive fees right on tickets. But all they're really providing is this one service which is like the ability to buy the ticket or not.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

And that's failing. And that got them to start a dig in.

[Big T]

So their daughters getting mad at them. 100 is the reason why that finally got Congress to act.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, did state of Minnesota passed a law called the Taylor Swift Ticket Law about it specifically. But DOJ brought a lawsuit, a monopoly lawsuit against Live Nation and Ticketmaster and I think the Oak View Group, which is like an associated third party. But effectively, if you don't know you know the name Ticketmaster, you might not know the name Live Nation. Live Nation is the largest concert promoter in the world by far. And Ticketmaster is wholly owned by Live Nation.

[Big T]

And Live Nation owns all the venues.

[Pat Cassidy]

All the venues. They own all the venues, especially all the sheds. Right. The amphitheaters. And that's really important because when you get to a certain level of touring, you're going to have to go like, the bigger you get as a touring artist, the less venues are available to you. Right.

[Big T]

It's like AC DC that wants to tour.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, AC DC will be touring in stadiums like they did a Soldier Field play, but like this is more like mid level. So like 15,000 tickets. So during the winter it'd be a basketball stadium. Stadium. During the summer it's going to be an outdoor amphitheater. And Live Nation owns 60% of them, but they also in Ticketmaster. And here's the rub, guys. Here's the rub. If you're going to buy a ticket, right, for a Live Nation venue, it has to be through Ticketmaster. Obviously they own it and they're going to throw some fees on that mfr, right? Some. Some service fees. But then if you then, then you go to go to the concert, spend all that dough at the Live Nation situation, they're double dipping is the issue. And it really becomes an issue for the artists who are getting screwed, right? Because the artist is going to go to a venue and do a deal. Let me start from the basics. The idea behind touring. You're a band, Big T. What's the name of your band?

[PFT Commenter]

The Big T Believers, obviously.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay, The Big T Believers. And you guys want to go play some shows and you have fans that are going to come out to those shows. So theoretically you should be able to route a tour, right? Let's say you're going to do 50 dates. You're going to stop in 50 different cities around the country. You should be able to go and say, okay, what are the rooms in this town that I want to play and why? And some of the factors that will go into like why you want to play that particular venue is like, how big is it, where is it, what's the location, what's the vibe right now? If you really want to be in the good graces with the monster that is Live Nation, you go to a Live Nation room, right? You won't go to an independent promoter because. Because as you get bigger, let's say Big T and the Believers have a number one hit. You don't want to get to a situation where you said, fuck you, Live Nation. And then now you need to go into one of their amphitheaters, but you're not on good standing.

[Big T]

Level up. But they won't let you level up.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. Here's another big issue. If Big T and the Believers are getting out there early, let's say you guys are playing 200 cap rooms. 200 capacity rooms, 300 capacity rooms. It's really important for Big T and the Believers to develop that fan base. Get asses in seats or on the floor. And ticket price is a huge determination of how successful a tour is going to be. It's like it's haggled over all the time when we're booking a pop punk show, I'll say, pft, what do we think about 1820? And he said, what are you talking about? I said, well, I'm talking about $18 ahead of the show, $20 day show, which is a super low ticket price. But for Pop Punk it's most important because we have a sponsor on those shows to get asses and seats. So we're going to keep the price low for an introductory situation. Same deal you might be doing if you're a new band. But then if you're going into a Live Nation venue, it has to be ticketed by Ticketmaster. And Ticketmaster is going to throw on a $7.50 fee on that thing. So that $20 ticket is now a $27 ticket. And you as the artist don't get to participate in that 750 whatsoever. Not at all. But it's weird because theoretically you did a deal with the venue. Now the venue is taking a split of that ticket revenue. Right? You guys are going to split it in some way, shape or form. It's usually 55% of the gross receipts. But that venue and the company that owns that venue is getting paid secondarily right from the ticket fees. And it's not fair.

[Big T]

So $20 big T and the Believers ticket would jump up to 2750 and then big T and the Believers would take home what, like 11 bucks.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, let's break down a pop punk show that we did, a Live Nation venue. So Pop Punk played Gramercy Theater in 2022. Gramercy Theater is a 650 capacity room. Right. And we wanted to keep the tickets super low. So we did a 20, 25, 20 ahead of time, 25 day show. But if you want to buy the ticket ahead of time, it was 2750. So theoretically pop Punk would have gotten a portion of 20 or 20 would have gone to the venue and Pop Punk to split. And then 750 just goes straight to Ticketmaster. But Ticketmaster happens to open the own the venue as well. I think we did a 55% gross box office receipts on that deal. So Pop Punk ended up walking with the total gross of the show is 8500 bucks. Pop punk walked with 4679. The venue walked with like 3600. Something like that. That was the split. But then they also got an additional $3,000 from fees.

[Big T]

Fees.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, yeah. So they ended up making way more than the band. And that happens all the time.

[Big T]

And when it comes to the Merch setup. Is it true that that merch number, like, the prices for merch or drinks, it's going to be more expensive at a Live Nation?

[Pat Cassidy]

Olivia, we have to split. You have to split. Split your merch. So it's 8515 or 9010 on hard goods, 8515 on soft goods. So T shirts, they're taking 15%. You have to rack. You have to, you know, bring your prices up at a Live Nation venue. Also, the expenses are fucking insane.

[Big T]

That's. That. To me, that part's crazy where it's like you roll in with your own T shirts, right? And, you know, people are expecting to pay. I think a normal price for a T shirt that people would be willing to swallow would be anywhere between 20 and 30 bucks.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's 30 today, right? Yeah.

[Big T]

And now it's like 30 plus going up to 50 sometimes, because the venues are also taking a cut.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, 100.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. I mean, they're. They're. They're nickel and dime at every turn. Now, I. Last night, I wanted to see what the fees were like, right? So I logged on to Live Nation's website, and I started cruising around to their venues, and I said, let's start in Chicago. And I looked at the Aragon Ballroom, okay? It's a big venue, 4,000 capacity.

[Big T]

It's a cool place. Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

I said, let's. Let's see who's playing. And the first, I don't know why, I just clicked on Madison Beer. I don't know why. I don't know much about her. I just saw it and I clicked, okay, and her ticket is $85. That's an advanced ticket service fee, 1250. Okay? Ticket insurance, $9. Now, I accidentally bought this ticket, okay? I bought it. So I now have a Madison Beer ticket, okay?

[PFT Commenter]

You have to click through three or four things.

[Pat Cassidy]

100%. Well, look, because I didn't. I wanted to know if there was, like, a fee that was thrown on that wasn't listed, right. That they added at the total. And there kind of was, man, because I ended up paying106.75 for this Madison Beer ticket.

[Big T]

Ticket, yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Now I'm like, I bought this Madison Beer ticket. I got. I got to get rid of it. But don't worry, Ticketmaster has a resale

[PFT Commenter]

marketplace where they then take a percentage from you when you sell, right?

[Pat Cassidy]

Big, big T. So I listed my Madison beer ticket for $85, and my payout if it sells is 7225. Because not only did they hit me with a 1275 fee when I bought it. They're going to hit me with a 1275 fee when I sell it, which is fucked up. But here's a better example. Emperor, which is banned. I don't know. But I guess they're a metal band. They're having a tour called the Imperial wrath tour.

[PFT Commenter]

Love that.

[Pat Cassidy]

Which sounds metal. As now they have a lower price ticket. They have a $40 ticket. The service fee on that ticket more than Madison beer, 1375, plus the county tax. Plus, by the way, Madison massive mass and beer is not paying the cook county tax. I don't know.

[Big T]

She had an exemption.

[Pat Cassidy]

I don't know. It's just. It's weird.

[Big T]

We're gonna look into that.

[Pat Cassidy]

We're gonna look into that. You end up paying $60 for this emperor. The wrath of Imperial wrath tour when it's a $40 ticket.

[Big T]

And they. They can just decide the service fees.

[Pat Cassidy]

Dude, what's really weird is the service fees for Lambo. God, the Service fee is 16 bucks.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

1375 for Emperor, 1425 for Bill Murray. The kind of hard tour. I don't know any of these guys.

[Big T]

Okay.

[PFT Commenter]

I just looked up Cody Johnson, which is a concert I've already bought tickets to, and the tickets are 59.50. And the service fee is 1955.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right. It's fucking insane.

[PFT Commenter]

So $20 service fee, almost 40%.

[Pat Cassidy]

And. Okay, and here's the 30%. What does Ticketmaster do? What do they do?

[Big T]

They sell tickets. So Ticketmaster, they. My understanding is that they were invented to solve a problem where people would buy tickets to a concert and not know what seat they were getting.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right.

[PFT Commenter]

Right.

[Big T]

And then Ticketmaster had a piece of software that allowed them to sell tickets on the phone or at a kiosk. And they would be able to tell you instantly, here's your seat that you bought tickets for, as opposed to having to wait for your assigned seat.

[Pat Cassidy]

That was a legit problem back in the day.

[Big T]

Yeah. So they had a software system.

[Pat Cassidy]

They networked some computers together.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. That's cool.

[Big T]

And so you have to go wait in line when we wanted to buy tickets for. For the HF festival, when kids, we'd have to wait, wake up at like 4 in the morning, go to tower Records, wait in line at tower Records, camp out on the street.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, I used to buy Braves tickets at Publix.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Ticketmaster.

[Pat Cassidy]

So. And Ticketmaster look did allow for that to happen because Ticketmasters networked computers allowed for multiple points of sale. Right. Where like you could, you know, you could buy it at Publix. You get a sandwich too, I bet. But someone else could be buying a ticket at the stadium at the same time, and they're not going to sell you the same ticket. Second. So back in the day, that did

[PFT Commenter]

happen to me once.

[Pat Cassidy]

Did it happen?

[PFT Commenter]

The New Jersey Performing Arts Center. The listeners of this show for a long time will remember the debacle. It was a whole thing. Never go to the New Jersey Performing Arts Center. They are scumbags.

[Pat Cassidy]

The Count Basie Theater, or where is that?

[PFT Commenter]

Is that what in Red Bank? It's. No, it's. It's in Newark. It's like, right near Prudential Center.

[Big T]

I. I feel like they are enemy number one of big team.

[PFT Commenter]

I've hated them for many years, and I. It will never die.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, but back then, when they. When they were founded, what year they

[Big T]

were found in the 80s or 1976, in the late 70s, by two Arizon State University employees.

[Pat Cassidy]

So that was a net.

[PFT Commenter]

Seems like an Arizona State venture.

[Big T]

Yeah, it's just like, let's get people to give us money for doing nothing.

[PFT Commenter]

It's in the office when the. Is it Will Arnett. He's like, so I have this. There's an app. And every time you. You click my app, I get. I get a penny.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Like, okay, but like, what does it do? He's like, I just. When you open my app, I get a penny.

[Big T]

It's a good, good business move.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

So is it. Yeah. ASU people. The first show ever that Ticketmaster sold tickets for was ELO Electric Light Orchestra.

[Pat Cassidy]

Major mislabeled artist on. On Napster.

[Big T]

Good point. Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Manford man.

[Big T]

Manford Man.

[Pat Cassidy]

A lot of people think is elo.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm saying a lot of songs right now, and I just don't.

[Big T]

Okay. ELO people would say, oh, they do Blinded by the Light.

[Pat Cassidy]

And you might be thinking, Blinded by the Light.

[PFT Commenter]

I don't know who that's by.

[Pat Cassidy]

It was originally by Bruce Springsteen, but

[Big T]

then it was covered by Manfred, Man.

[Pat Cassidy]

River Blockadoosh.

[Big T]

And people thought it was elo. But fun fact, man, for man, the band that sings Blinded by the Light from.

[PFT Commenter]

Y'. All. Y' all are telling me five people have sung this.

[Big T]

Listen, listen. Manford man.

[Pat Cassidy]

Most hits have been sung.

[PFT Commenter]

It's by Manfred Man's Earth Band.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

That is the.

[Big T]

Okay, Manford man.

[Pat Cassidy]

They know you just say man, right?

[Big T]

They sang Blinded by the Light, the song from Below. They're also the band that sang Do a Diddy. Diddy dumb. Did he. Do you know that sound?

[PFT Commenter]

There she was just walking down the street.

[Big T]

Sound like. You could not think of two songs that were more dissimilar from that area era than those two, but they did both of them.

[Pat Cassidy]

But if you downloaded Blinded by the light 2000, 2001, you're thinking, it's yellow.

[Big T]

Yeah, it was always late, so.

[PFT Commenter]

So there are. There are probably a lot of people walking around the earth right now whose perception of whose songs are by. Was based on.

[Big T]

Yep. And that's fake news.

[Pat Cassidy]

20 years. Took me 20 years to clear that one up. The one particular.

[PFT Commenter]

And. And what caused that again?

[Big T]

People that would.

[Pat Cassidy]

Pranksters.

[Big T]

Yeah, sometimes people do.

[PFT Commenter]

So it's intentional.

[Big T]

Sometimes intentional. Sometimes it would wind up on your computer, and you didn't know who actually sang it. So you just guess. And then for whatever reason, the file that you would upload where you just guessed on the band, that would become the one file that got very popular for people to click on and download across the Internet. And so then people would just take your mistake. And now it's infected everybody.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right. Also, that song probably came out, like 1983. Right. So pretty far removed from the 76. 76. Pretty far removed from the millennial understanding of the pop music lexicon. So someone's parent might have been like, I think that's Manford, man. Or, I think that's Elo, and you'll

[Big T]

go, okay, Elo, upload that first ticket for Elo 650. And the service charge that Ticketmaster charged, 25 cents.

[Pat Cassidy]

Great. Cool. Makes sense. Back in the day, totally necessary service, networking, computers together. Hell, yeah. Ticketmaster. Get after it. We need you now. I got to tell you, little something else was going on when this was forming, and this was the Grateful Dead's touring business. Okay? So to give a dichotomy, an opposite of the story we're going to tell you about Ticketmaster, you got to understand what the Grateful Dead are doing at the same time. The Grateful Dead are doing their own ticketing, and they are going into venues. They're renting the venues out, and then they're selling their tickets through their newsletter and their fan club. And they're doing just fine. Girlfriends, wives, burnouts, they're just taking cash in envelopes, being mailed to their PO Box, and sending tickets back out. And their grassroots growing, and they're kind of doing it on their own, totally independent, and it's working.

[PFT Commenter]

Interesting.

[Big T]

So then. Then Ticketmaster, their whole. Their case for being a business was that Ticketron was the Company that was handling most of the ticket sales in America at the time. They were kind of like the old Ticketmaster.

[Pat Cassidy]

By the way, two great names.

[Big T]

Yeah, Ticketron's a great name.

[Pat Cassidy]

Ticketron's a great name. It definitely feels like, you know, 19, late 1970s sci fi influenced it when coming up with the name Ticket Master.

[Big T]

That's great.

[Pat Cassidy]

I don't know how that came about. What's a good name? Well, we're kind of going to be the masters of tickets.

[PFT Commenter]

It's kind of sick.

[Big T]

Where can you go? What's the next step up from. You had Ticketron.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Which sounds like it's just a. A robot that controls the ticketing.

[Pat Cassidy]

Your tickets.

[Big T]

Yeah. And then you. You level it up to Ticket Master, which is like. Yeah, this is the guy that's in charge of the robot. Ticket night to connect.

[Pat Cassidy]

Ticket King.

[Big T]

Ticket God Ticket, Emperor. God Ticket.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

God Ticket.com.

[PFT Commenter]

so Ticket wizard could have been cool.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh yeah, I might buy that.

[Big T]

Domain Ticket Whiz. Yeah, yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Tick Whiz.

[Big T]

I'm the Wiz.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, hold on. I.

[Big T]

He's got a wand. You like, click the wand to buy your ticket.

[Pat Cassidy]

TicketWizard.com Traffic Ticket Law Firm.

[Big T]

Oh, that's pretty good too. Yeah, that's pretty good. You get a speeding ticket, call the Wiz.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

So they were. Ticketmaster was purchased by Burton Cantor.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, man.

[Big T]

Burton Cantor, a Chicago tax attorney.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, wow.

[Big T]

Who represented ccr. They represented the Pritzker family.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay.

[Big T]

Big T's, big fans.

[PFT Commenter]

Scumbags.

[Big T]

Pritzkers.

[PFT Commenter]

Solid hotels, though.

[Big T]

Patrons of the arts as well. You like their hotels?

[PFT Commenter]

They're fine.

[Big T]

Separate the art from the artist.

[PFT Commenter]

They're no Omni, but it's a solid hotel.

[Big T]

So they. They had a bunch of high profile clients.

[Pat Cassidy]

And we talk about Cantor real quick.

[Big T]

Yeah, let's talk about Burton Cantor.

[Pat Cassidy]

Cancer's a shady, shady brother. Okay, so he kind of up. So he's CCR's attorney and he's telling.

[PFT Commenter]

Which as we all know, is Credence Clearwater Revive.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right. That's right. Were you on. Are you Kazakh guy?

[PFT Commenter]

I don't know what that means.

[Big T]

Fortunate son.

[PFT Commenter]

I actually. Okay, so I know that song. I don't. I just know that's what that means. I couldn't.

[Pat Cassidy]

That was three dog night with.

[Big T]

With ccr. You got Fortunate, son. You've got down on the Corner. You know that one down on the Corner. That's a big baseball song. They play that baseball games a lot. You know them? Their lead singer, John Fogarty.

[PFT Commenter]

I Was just fixing to say I thought that was a John Fogarty song.

[Big T]

John Fogarty was a lead singer. Also sang Put Me In Coach.

[PFT Commenter]

Right. Okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

I think my dad's. No, I think that's the cough. John Cooper.

[Big T]

I think you might have gotten. You might have gotten Morpheus.

[Pat Cassidy]

I'm almost positive. Put Me in Coaches. John Cougar Mellon. No, it's John.

[PFT Commenter]

Center field is by John Fogarty.

[Big T]

Yeah, you got. You got Morpheus.

[Pat Cassidy]

Late, late, Fogarty.

[Big T]

See, this is what happens. This is what happens. This is what Napster and Morpheus and Kaza did to all of our brains. What you just saw from Pat right there, that was the realization of. You've been thinking that a song is wrong this entire time. And initially, even when confronted with direct evidence that you're wrong, you still hang on to. Well, I don't know. So he's looking it up right now.

[Pat Cassidy]

No, no. What I'm looking up.

[Big T]

Yeah. No, but this. It happens to all of us. This is what that era.

[Pat Cassidy]

Let me tell you what I'm looking at.

[Big T]

Mislabeling files did to our brains, because

[Pat Cassidy]

we're on a music business episode. Ccr. Okay? They're a cosplay band. And this is. This has been a formula for success in the music business forever. Pretend that you're from a culture or a place where you are not.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

And you will be embraced as a novelty or authentic from that place. And ccr, there's some California boys, but you'd think they from the bayou down there in Louisiana, but they isn't they a bunch of posers? And as evidenced by putting me in coach later in Fogerty's.

[Big T]

Well, how can. It's not like they had a song called Born on the Bayou. It is crazy when you look at, like, the lyrics to a lot of the CCR songs, it's like, yeah, they just pretended that they were from Louisiana.

[Pat Cassidy]

It worked.

[Big T]

It did work.

[Pat Cassidy]

It worked. Okay, so Cantor. So Cantor's their attorney. And these guys are making a lot of dough. And you gotta understand that the income tax rate. Big T, you're gonna love this. The income tax rate in the late. Well in the early and to late 1970s was, I think, 90% for the highest earners.

[Big T]

Incremental.

[Pat Cassidy]

Incremental, yeah.

[Big T]

Meaning like every dollar above. And I know it was like that in the 50s and I don't know how long.

[Pat Cassidy]

So pre Reagan was higher. Pre Reagan. Effectively leading up to Reagan, it was cranking. And Big T, by the way, country was doing great at that point. Really good.

[PFT Commenter]

But they told me when. When the income tax started, it was only for the war, and it was like 1% on, just.

[Big T]

They told you that?

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Big T]

What year did they tell you that? 30s, would you say when they told you that?

[PFT Commenter]

In 1930s, I was like, man, you know, I. I'm against it, but it seems like that could be fairly reasonable. And then. And then it just never stopped going up for some reason.

[Pat Cassidy]

Actually, it went way, way, way, way down when. When Reagan came in. And.

[PFT Commenter]

But it went way, way up before it did.

[Pat Cassidy]

And things were great. Big T. But a lot of guys didn't want to pay those taxes. So people were trying to figure out, how do we get away around that and that born, the tax shelter or the offshore bank account. And CCR's attorney Cantor was like, look, boys, don't worry about all them taxes. I know this guy. Paul Helliwell. Paul Helliwell was a member of the oss, which is a precursor to the CIA, the Office of Strategic Services. And Heliwell was a boss. If you don't know about Paul Heliwell, look him up. He's absolutely fascinating. Helliwell, Paul Lyon S. Heliwell. I think he's got a crazy middle name. Okay, so Helliwell ran a little scheme called Air America. Are you guys familiar?

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. So when the CIA, CIA needs dark money, okay, they can't have money on the books because the taxpayer can't really know what they're doing, so they need to get that money somehow. And Air America, they started running drugs to get that money. Also, Helliwell opened a little bank down in Nassau, Bahamas, with Burton Cantor called the Castle Bank. And the Castle bank was specifically set up to funnel money to the CIA for the Bay of Pigs invasion. And, hey, why not be an offshore tax haven for people that don't want to pay taxes in the United States? Like, I don't know, my client, ccr. The bio boys just don't understand the income tax. And that was great. For a while. The Pritzkers had their money down there. Hugh Hefner had his dough down there. Anthony Curtis, the actor, a ton of people. I have the list. I got a chance to dig through these files at. At Rutgers University a couple of years ago. But Helli was a real shady guy putting money together for. For the CIA. They end up getting busted because a nosy IRS investigator put together a little operation called Operation Trade Winds. I don't know if you guys ever saw the movie the Firm. Did you see the movie the Firm?

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

You know, in the Firm. They go down to the Bahamas and Tom Cruise drugs Gene Hackman. And then they break into the apartment and photograph all the files. Steal the files. That's from Operation Trade Winds. That's where they lifted that story from. Because one of the IRS guys took one of the guys from Castle bank out, and then one of the other guys broke into the apartment and got all the docs. Anyway, CCR got busted. It was a huge, huge lawsuit. And Castle bank got shut down.

[Big T]

So the CIA bank got shut down in the Bahamas. And then Cantor was like, I, I've got an idea. Let's buy Ticketmaster and take down Ticketron.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right. We got to find a way to people a different way.

[Big T]

So before that, the. The venues were kind of like run by warlords. So each town.

[Pat Cassidy]

They're not warlords.

[Big T]

Each town had their own warlord regional promoters. Regional promoters. Bill Graham did San Fran. Larry Magid. Maggot did Philly. I don't know how you say that name. Don Lawrence was running Boston. There was a guy named Lou Messina.

[Pat Cassidy]

They're still up and kicking, baby. Out of Austin, Texas. Messina Touring Group, they do all Taylor Swift's tours. They do all AD Sheeran's tours. Great people.

[Big T]

And. And Dave Lucas, he did Indiana. So they.

[Pat Cassidy]

Let's talk about what a promoter is first, because that's. That's what these guys were, right? And back in the day, you needed promoters pre Internet. I mean, like, you guys know about the green M and M story with Van Halen? Are you familiar with this Big T?

[PFT Commenter]

No, it's the first I'm hearing of this.

[Pat Cassidy]

Are you serious?

[PFT Commenter]

Dead serious.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay, so there's a joke or a trope in touring, right? About make sure on my rider, right? The list of things attached to my contract that are usually hospitality or tech. Tech related, that I have a bowl of just green M&Ms. And it's like, well, why would you have that? Well, Van Halen popularized that because they were touring with a lot of amps, like a huge amount of amps. And back in the day, you literally just had a phone book and you'd call a venue and say, hey, I want to get Van Halen in this venue. But, like, you had no idea the quality of the venue or what kind of gear they were bringing in, and you could die if you got shocked on stage by some bad electrical work. So they would put this thing in the rider where they want a bowl of green M and Ms, because they knew if they got that, then probably every other T, Big T had Been crossed and I had been dotted, and they could have some confidence in the quality of the setup of the venue. Interesting, right? But promoters, what they do is, you needed a promoter, right? How would you find the room? So you'd call a regional promoter, like, yo, I got a hot act. Boys from Louisiana, Credence Clearwater Revival, they're going to come play St. Louis. What's the room? And then the promoter would take a huge, massive risk. Absolutely massive risk, running a room, probably giving a guarantee to the band. Right. And then figuring out how to sell those tickets, getting all the gear in there, the insurance, the concessions, and it could be a huge, huge business, big win, but also, like, you could fail in a massive way.

[Big T]

Yep. And then. So what Rosen did was he went to all these different territories, all these different people that ran the different venues, all the promoters, and said, what I'm going to do is. And Rosen, by the way, was working with cancer. So Cantor owns Ticketmaster. He's got a buddy named Frederick Rosen, and he's. Cantor tells Rosen, like, I want you to handle the deal making. So Rosen goes to all these different promoters and he says, I want to do an exclusive deal for all your shows to run through Ticketmaster. And the promoters were like, well, we already have a contract with Ticketron. I don't know if you heard, but that's a pretty cool name. So that's sick. We sell our tickets through the. The.

[Pat Cassidy]

The.

[Big T]

The ticketing.

[Pat Cassidy]

I'm not entering that. Dungeon and Dragons Ticket Master.

[Big T]

What's that? So Rosen was like, tell you what, we're gonna. We're gonna make you a deal. As long as you sign an exclusive contract with us at Ticketmaster and you agree to let us put a service charge on all the tickets that we sell, we will kick you back a certain amount of that service charge. So you're going to be making more money, whether that's 10 to 20% extra on top of what you're making from the sale of the ticket itself. So that was a pretty sweet deal. So all these places, all these venues said, that is a good deal. Let's go ahead and do it. And slowly but surely, they put Ticketron nearly out of business. Until a good friend, our good friend and former owner of the Washington Bullets and Capitals, Abe Poland, you know, went to Ticketron. And by the way, a Poland is also the man responsible for changing the name of the Bullets to the Wizard.

[Pat Cassidy]

Son of a.

[Big T]

There was a poll.

[Pat Cassidy]

He was the ticket wizard, and he

[Big T]

put out a list of names. He's like, what do you guys want to. What you guys want to change the name to? And then everybody voted. And then he said, tell you what I'm gonna do. The Wizards, which wasn't even named, wasn't

[Pat Cassidy]

even on the list.

[PFT Commenter]

They were forced to. To change it. He didn't want to change it.

[Big T]

There's some pressure put on him. Like the. DC Was the murder capital at the time of the United States.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm going to say something.

[Big T]

The name should go back.

[PFT Commenter]

Kind of makes it cooler.

[Big T]

Fair.

[PFT Commenter]

Everyone gets killed in our town. It. We're the Bullets.

[Pat Cassidy]

Like the Bullets.

[Big T]

The Bullets. The wizard should go back to the Bullets.

[Pat Cassidy]

I agree.

[Big D]

Murder rates, like the Mario Kart thing that you get. That's the Bullet.

[Big T]

Yeah. We're just fast. We've just. We've got the fastest players.

[PFT Commenter]

What were the. What won the poll?

[Big T]

I'm trying to remember the other names out there. It was like the Washington Presidents. Was one always the same name? Washington Monuments was another one. Monuments Flags might have won. Washington Senators might have been on there because it was the old baseball team name.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Let's see what the other.

[Pat Cassidy]

We've gone through this a couple times, Big T. It's hard. Okay, the final poll. Five finalists. Dragons Express. No Stallions.

[PFT Commenter]

No.

[Pat Cassidy]

Sea Dogs.

[PFT Commenter]

No.

[Pat Cassidy]

Wizards.

[PFT Commenter]

All right. He was right to go with Wizards.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay. Alternate proposed names. Monuments. Generals. Geckos. Funkadelics. The Gridlocks.

[PFT Commenter]

Because the traffic.

[Pat Cassidy]

The whips. The Poles.

[PFT Commenter]

Whips could be cool.

[Pat Cassidy]

The Windjammers.

[PFT Commenter]

No, that doesn't make any sense.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

All those names suck.

[PFT Commenter]

Whips could be.

[Big T]

You run into a lot of problems.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's a bit of an issue.

[Big T]

A lot of problems with the whips.

[PFT Commenter]

That's where your mind goes. Mine goes to just whipping it up the floor.

[Pat Cassidy]

Sure.

[Big T]

Throw to pass. A hard pass. Or you could go like, the Congressional aspect. There's a person. Their job titles. Whip in Congress.

[Pat Cassidy]

In Congress. Yeah.

[Big T]

You whip the votes.

[Pat Cassidy]

The Washington basketball team.

[Big T]

Wbt.

[PFT Commenter]

All right, so you said the Generals. The Washington Generals is the team the Globetrotters play. Correct.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, they kicked their ass.

[PFT Commenter]

Yes. Never lost.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Undefeated.

[Big T]

I think out of all those, the Express. Probably the best one.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, the Express is pretty good. Yeah.

[Big T]

The rest of those.

[Pat Cassidy]

The Monuments is all right. I mean, where did the Sea Dogs come from?

[Big T]

See, though, we're not. Yeah. Admirals was on there, too, right?

[Pat Cassidy]

I don't.

[Big T]

I think Admirals was on the list.

[Pat Cassidy]

Was it?

[Big T]

Yeah. But yeah, Abe Poland was like, let's make it the Wizards.

[PFT Commenter]

Didn't Admiral Schofield play For the Wizards. At one point, he might have. Imagine if Admiral was on the Admirals. Sick.

[Big T]

So.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, Dragons. Because. Because the stadium's in Chinatown.

[Big T]

Oh, yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

That would have been weird. Yeah. I've. I've been to. I haven't been in that arena, but I've been to the outside.

[Pat Cassidy]

MCI.

[PFT Commenter]

And your MCI.

[Big T]

It's called. It was called MCI.

[PFT Commenter]

It's credits capital one.

[Big T]

It was also. Yeah, it was WorldCom for a little bit. And then they had, like, a five.

[PFT Commenter]

You're just in, like, Chinatown. And then. And then on the side, it's. If you weren't looking for it, you wouldn't know.

[Big T]

Yeah. You could lose it.

[PFT Commenter]

It's. It's just on the. Like, the facade of the street right there, and it's just. Yeah.

[Big T]

It kind of looks like a normal building that's down there.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. If they didn't have banners on the outside of it with, like, the Capitals

[Pat Cassidy]

and the basketball that's happening in there is. It's normal.

[Big T]

Yeah, very normal.

[Pat Cassidy]

Very normal.

[Big T]

It could. It could very well just be, like, a ymca. So a Poland bought Ticketron with the Carlisle Group. Oh, yeah. Teamed up with the Carlisle Group. And some. Some goats worked for the Carlisle Group, if you want to look that up. So they bought Ticketron, and he's like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna polish this thing up. We're gonna bring a formerly great American company back to prominence under my stewardship. And so then just a month later, he was like, psych. I'm actually gonna sell Ticketron to Ticketmaster.

[Pat Cassidy]

A little bit. A little bit of collusion, a little bit about backdoor action.

[Big T]

That, to me, feels kind of like the Max Crosby deal a little bit.

[Pat Cassidy]

Checked his check. Ticketron's knee.

[Big T]

Yeah. So we're gonna just sell this to Ticketmaster. And now Ticketmaster has a near monopoly on things.

[PFT Commenter]

Things.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, Big time.

[Big T]

So, yeah. Also, in the 90s, that's when people started to turn on Ticketmaster. That's when Pearl Jam.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay, so here's what Pearl Jam wanted to do. Check this out. And this is where it really starts to suck. Pearl Jam wants to do a free concert in their hometown of Seattle. Right. But from a permitting perspective, you can't just do a concert. Right. It'll be a mess. You don't want to risk it getting shut down, so you got to ticket it. But it's a free concert, and Ticketmaster wants to put a dollar fee on every ticket. And I bet Pearl Jam might have been doing it for charity in some Way, shape or form, I don't know. They're good dudes. That really pissed them off. But there was no option. There was no other option. It's like, sorry, dude, we're going to make our money. It's like, well, we're not making money. Why can't you do one with us? And then Pearl Jam essentially wanted to keep their ticket prices really low. Eddie Vedder said that he wanted to keep his ticket prices so a guy that worked at a gas station, which is where better used to work, could take his boy to see a Pearl Jam show, but with a ticket fee of six or seven bucks. A $20 ticket, $27 tickets, not so affordable. But there's nothing they could do about it. And this is where it becomes silly and stupid, because if you're Pearl Jam, you don't need a promoter, and you don't need a ticketing company. You don't. There's a certain level, especially if you're

[Big T]

playing a hometown show in Seattle, which is where they. That's where they try to start it. They were doing Labor Day concerts. They had two free concerts. And Ticketmaster wanted to put a $1 service charge for each free ticket that it would issue to people. And then Pearl James, manager said, let's do a charity show instead where you can donate $1 of your 325 service charge for the free tickets to the charity. And then Ticketmaster backed out of the deal, Said, no deal. That sounds like a bad. A bad rep for us.

[Pat Cassidy]

But on the tour later, that program. So 10 comes out. Let me explain this to you, big T. 10, okay? Mixed by Tim Palmer. Great record.

[Big T]

Huge record.

[Pat Cassidy]

Massive record. You can't have records like this anymore, okay? It's damn near what they say. If you're a U2 fan who likes. Well, you're pretty much a Pearl Jam fan. You're like a younger U2 fan. You love 10. You think that it's perfect, okay? And it spreads across the country. What were the. What were the smashes onto? It was Jeremy.

[Big T]

I'm trying to remember what else was on there.

[Pat Cassidy]

Anyway, fresh sound coming out for you. Kurt Cobain's dead, so Pearl Jam is the king, and you don't need a promoter. Big T. You can go to a city and call the radio station and be like, pearl Jam's playing here tomorrow. And that. That show. Sold out. It's sold out. You don't need a promoter. You don't need a ticketer. But Ticketmaster is starting to own venues, okay? And they're starting to realize we can't have a squawker, a hen clucking out there like Pearl Jam, bucking the system, saying that they don't need us. So we're gonna fuck these guys and them. They did. And the most interesting thing about the Pearl Jam situation. I don't know if you read this. Pft. They were. They were suspicious that Ticketmaster got to their drummer because they. Because Pearl Jam essentially was like, this is our fight. This is a hill we're gonna die on. And they tried to book a tour on their own without Ticketmaster. And Ticketmaster called all the venues and the promoters was like, don't work with pro. Don't work with the biggest band in the world, Pro Jam, because they're a bunch of whiny anti capitalist bitches. And you know Vetter, okay, He's. He's an activist, okay. He's a principled man. He's a better man, some would say. Can't find a better man than him. It's Pearl Jam hit.

[Big T]

They also did. They also did Even Flow.

[PFT Commenter]

That was on Ten Better Man's the only song. Oh, okay. I know that.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. Do you know this one?

[Big T]

A lot of baseball songs like these are songs that are played at the ballpark

[Pat Cassidy]

from the mouth.

[PFT Commenter]

It's the first I'm hearing.

[Big T]

I said, Temple of the Dog super group.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's for another episode. Look, they went out on the road, the tour fell apart, okay? And the drummer started saying, what are we even doing?

[Big T]

Yeah, like he wasn't about to fight.

[Pat Cassidy]

What do we even do?

[Big T]

This is stupid.

[Pat Cassidy]

Let's just get out there and make our money. And they said, did Ticketmaster get to the. Get to our drummer? And they fired us his ass. But they were concerned that, that, that like a Slugworth type character, he was a plant. Got it. Well, got in paying him. Why don't you go in there and show some doubt in the Pearl Jam team meetings? But little did he know. Little Ticketmaster know. A drummer is the most replaceable part of a band.

[Big T]

That's true. So Garth Brooks tried to help out Pearl Jam because Garth Brooks was down for the fight too. So he saw what Pearl Jam was up to, and him and his manager got together and they're like, if you need anything from us, we will. We will stand up with you against Ticketmaster.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, Garth needed some good PR because he'd been burying bodies at every tour stop around the country.

[PFT Commenter]

People don't talk about that.

[Pat Cassidy]

People talk about allegedly.

[Big T]

So they were like, yeah, greed is ruining the music business. So Pearl Jam, your fight is going to be our fight, too. And then, yeah, people did think that. That Ticketmaster got to their drummer, Dave Abruttasi Deva Brutazi, and they ended up firing him. But, yeah, Ticketmaster would do. They would actually hire, like, private investigators to follow the members of Pearl Jam around, trying to get dirt on them because they were engaged in this big, like, PR war against Pearl Jam. So they would do some dirty tricks. They would plant local news stories that would talk about Pearl Jam. They paid this one guy who called himself a crowd safety consultant as a guy named Paul Worth Meyer, and he was an anti moshing advocate.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay.

[Big T]

Is what he called himself.

[Pat Cassidy]

So Amash. Big T is also called slam dancing. And it happens in something that forms at a concert called. Not a country concert.

[PFT Commenter]

Right.

[Pat Cassidy]

Called the Pit.

[PFT Commenter]

I'm familiar.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay. All right.

[Big T]

So this guy was an anti moshing activist and he called himself a crowd safety consultant.

[PFT Commenter]

I think I might be an anti moshing activist. Activist.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, I was gonna say. No, I think you're a professional is what he was.

[Big T]

You're an anti moshing pacifist. You, in theory, are anti moshing, but you're not.

[PFT Commenter]

I am an advocate. I'm just not going to do a ton.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, that's fine.

[Big T]

It's.

[Pat Cassidy]

No one's gonna put a gun to your head and say, get in the pit. No one's gonna do that.

[Big T]

I might do that. Get in the pit, boy.

[Pat Cassidy]

Dude, we got in the pit. I forgot what concert we went to. We got in the pit and I got winded. That's how I knew I had. Didn't belong in the pit.

[PFT Commenter]

I've only been in the pit for a concert once, and it was cool to like. It was Morgan Wallen, and it was cool.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, he really gets him going.

[PFT Commenter]

And I had upper. Upper level tickets. I had a guy who got me into the pit and what's.

[Pat Cassidy]

What Wallen song created a mosh pit.

[PFT Commenter]

No, no. I'm just saying, had I been in the pit for a concert and people started a mosh pit, I would be pissed, which is why I am an anti moshing act.

[Pat Cassidy]

Traffic.

[Big T]

Got it. I don't think you're going to be in danger that at a Morgan Wallen show.

[PFT Commenter]

I agree. I'm just saying, if I happen to venture into one of those one day, that would.

[Big T]

Yeah, I could see.

[PFT Commenter]

These are like. These are the concerts that Jack McCarthy goes to and like a warehouse where they're. They're dealing Molly. Like, you're talking about raves. I don't run in those.

[Big T]

I would not call a rave a, A pit raves. It's just like, people are like dancing,

[PFT Commenter]

but they don't know what you call them. Okay. I just know that I don't run in those circles.

[Pat Cassidy]

If you stand near the Pit, though, you got to be careful because you might get pushed in. You always want to be one, one layer of person back from the Pit. Unless you don't want to get.

[PFT Commenter]

If someone pushes me, we're going to have issues as well.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, okay, let me ask you this question, Big T. If you. Let's say. Okay, because you don't know much about the Pit. Let's say, let's say you're kind of watching the Pit, you're curious, you're saying to yourself, I thought this was the Morgan Wallen show, but it's not. And you're looking into the Pit, right? And then someone. This happens, someone points to you and calls you out because. Because what can happen in the pit is the Pit can slow down. And a pit boss, usually shirtless, almost always bald, potentially racist, tattoos on him, he'll be standing in the center and he'll call some people out. And you got. When you get called out, I'm not that type of guy. I'm more of like a lighter, mosh pit guy. I'll get in for two seconds, get out. But if I've been called out, I have to go in. Would you go in?

[PFT Commenter]

I am wholly unmoved by peer pressure, buddy.

[Pat Cassidy]

You don't understand. You don't understand.

[PFT Commenter]

You're correct, I don't. But also, I don't. I don't. I don't run like that.

[Big T]

Okay, so. So Pearl Jam, they were testifying in front of Congress. They like, they took this fight very seriously against Ticketmaster. They were, they were doing whatever they could to bring it to the national forefront and have everybody realize that this is bad for, for the average concert going individual in America. So they're about to testify in D.C. this is 1994. They take a trip to testify before Congress. They had time to kill us. So the band wants to go around D.C. and see the sights before they go in for their testimony. They decide that they're going to take a trip to the Holocaust Museum.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay, let me stop you. So, big T, 6 million Jews were killed, okay. During this thing called the Holocaust.

[PFT Commenter]

Yes.

[Pat Cassidy]

And there's a museum in D.C. where you can go and remember and learn. Okay.

[Big T]

So they, they decide to go to the Holocaust Museum. They got to the door, they buy the tickets to go to their temporary exhibits that they have. They're like the seasonal exhibits that get changed out. So you have to pay a little bit extra for that. So they buy a ticket and then the admission was actually free for that. But the service charge was $3 from Ticketmaster to get into.

[Pat Cassidy]

Printed on an IBM computer to get

[Big T]

into the Holocaust Museum for free. And so they're like this, this is bad, right? So they eventually gave up their fight. Well, Ticketmaster 1, Pearl Jam gave up the fight.

[Pat Cassidy]

They were saying, don't you know, they were powerful enough saying, look, if you work with Pearl Jam, we're gonna, we're gonna come in and fuck you.

[Big T]

Well, like that anti marching activist, he ended up getting one of their concerts canceled. So they were on this tour trying to avoid all the Ticketmaster Live Nation venues.

[Pat Cassidy]

He was using fear tactics. He was going to guys like Big T and saying, if you come to this concert, you're going to get pushed in that pit.

[Big T]

Yeah, so.

[PFT Commenter]

So yeah, I would just not go.

[Big T]

So they tried work on me. They tried to book all these, all these venues that weren't part of the conglomerate. And a guy like this Anti Martian guy would show up and hand deliver a 14 page report on how unsafe the crowds would be at this venue and then cause the, the venue owner to cancel that concert.

[Pat Cassidy]

Big ups to Pearl, Jim. They were. They're playing places like state fairs, right? Like stuff that's pretty much reserved for Ludacris and Nelly at this point. But they were the biggest band in the world. Right. But the only option that they had was to go play these kind of offbeat venues, which must have been a bummer for them because the one thing that these venues that are controlled by the conglomerate do have is the best concert going experience usually.

[Big T]

Yeah, yeah. And so they kind of gave up their fight with Ticketmaster that I shouldn't say Live Nation because the Live Nation merger happened in February 2009.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right.

[Big T]

Much, much later. So Ticketmaster and Live Nation merged. Live Nation owns about 400 venues worldwide.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's a lot. They own a ton of them.

[Big T]

75% of. Of United States venues that have a exclusive contract with Ticketmaster. Live Nation.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Here's the other thing. They also own Roc Nation, Jay Z's management company. They manage about 400 artists, some of the biggest artists in the world. So it's the artist and the fan that's getting screwed here. And why the lawsuit was brought against Live Nation, Ticketmaster, the artist is a lot of times not getting a piece of These fees that are getting attacked on the fans having to pay them, which is absolutely insane. What's also crazy is like, you should be able to choose, right? You should be able to say, I'm going to go with this ticketing company who's going to deliver. The service has become negligible. Like, you know, someone could AI code an app tomorrow that could sell tickets for a particular concert and you could charge a $1 fee or no fee whatsoever, keep your ticket price low. Or like, let's say you want to go into a venue and do like, let's say you want to bundle your tickets with your album, which is a little trick we do in the music business to get record sales. So Big T, if I want to have a big first week of sales, I know people are going to buy my concert ticket, but they're not going to buy my physical media or my. Or my digital media, my album. But if I bundle that shit, then I'm getting those album sales. You see.

[PFT Commenter]

Love that.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's huge.

[PFT Commenter]

So I didn't know the Roc Nation thing. So if I'm an artist who's repped by Roc Nation, I'm paying my agent, who indirectly.

[Pat Cassidy]

Your manager.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay, yeah. Who indirectly works for Live Nation.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

So they're getting what, 3, 4% of just everything?

[Pat Cassidy]

No. So a manager takes 15 or 20%.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay, wow.

[Pat Cassidy]

So they take either 15% of the gross or 20% of the net.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay, so they're getting 15% before anything out of everything.

[Pat Cassidy]

Exactly.

[PFT Commenter]

Before you see a dollar. Then the company that that guy kind of works for is now owns the venue where you're doing your concert. So then they get a percentage of that.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yep.

[PFT Commenter]

And then you go there and sell your T shirt where they take a percentage. That's right. Why would anyone use that agency?

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, Roc Nation.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

As a management company, because they can do things for you. It's a gate kept business. So like if Roc Nation came into the. Look, look, we think Big T and the Believers are stars and we think they're going to the top.

[PFT Commenter]

We are.

[Pat Cassidy]

You would be like, shit, yeah, that's awesome. I want to sign with Roc Nation because they're going to be able to get me on bigger tours. They're going to be able to get me a record deal or the version of a record deal today, which is like promotional dollars to promote your album. They're going to make sure to connect you with the best producers and all the things that an artist manager does.

[PFT Commenter]

But there are other managers, I guess you're saying the connections that they have to Live Nation make it more.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, yeah, the Roc Nation managed artists is the most insane. Like a Roc Nation managed artist playing a Live Nation venue.

[PFT Commenter]

Right, right.

[Pat Cassidy]

Where they're. There's a fee they're not going to get part of, and then the dollars that are coming in are getting commissioned by the manager. Right. But I mean, what would you think a fair split is? Big T. So like, let's say Big T and the believers are selling 500 tickets in every city in America.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

And you're going to go play a venue.

[PFT Commenter]

You.

[Pat Cassidy]

What do you. What's your ticket price? What are you going to charge?

[PFT Commenter]

I think we can do a $35.

[Pat Cassidy]

I think that's totally reasonable. That's a very reasonable ticket today. So $35 ticket in an intimate venue. 500 cap venue. What do you think a fair split is for you and the venue to split at the end of the night of the gross?

[PFT Commenter]

I mean, if I'm bringing the people to your venue, you're bringing all the people, but obviously they have the Internet infrastructure that I need. I would say I should be getting 65%.

[Pat Cassidy]

60% of the 65% of the gross?

[PFT Commenter]

Yes.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay, so it's a 17. 5 gross at a $500. 500 capacity room. Of the $35 ticket you'd be getting, you'd be walking with $11,375. Okay, that's pretty good. That's tour bus money. If you're making 10. 10 grand a night, you can be in a tour bus.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay, sick.

[Pat Cassidy]

But you're not going to get that deal. No, you're gonna get a 55. Best. Best situation. And you're not gonna get a piece of the bar, the food, and they're gonna take a piece of your merch.

[PFT Commenter]

You think we could get them to 60? Meet in the middle?

[Pat Cassidy]

If you're a really hot, hot little artist.

[Big T]

Okay, your, your fans, do they drink a lot?

[Pat Cassidy]

So this is a great point. Pft. No, this is a great point.

[PFT Commenter]

No.

[Big T]

Dries a bone. So what about eating? Do they like to eat?

[PFT Commenter]

Some.

[Big T]

They like to eat. Some of them like to eat.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

There's no markup on food. Okay, But Dave Matthews, okay, Corn Capshaw, who followed the Grateful Dead model, he used to be able to get a piece of the bar. Now that was the shit, man. Because theoretically you should. If you have a venue and I'm gonna bring a thousand people and they're gonna drink all night, I should get a piece of that action.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, yeah. But I'D be fine. Just get 10% of that. That's all your alcohol. That's fine.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right, but you're not gonna get it.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

Anyway, there was a settlement, and effectively, I guess Live Nation Ticketmaster is going to pay like 200/something million dollars drop in the bucket. They had $22 billion in revenue last year.

[Big T]

They put aside $280 million in preparation of any settlement. We don't know the terms of settlement.

[PFT Commenter]

We didn't even get the full settlement money.

[Big T]

There's no financial component to the settlement that I'm seeing right now. They might have just said, okay, we're done.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, pretty much we're done.

[Big T]

We're done prosecuting this.

[Pat Cassidy]

I mean, it was an insane lawsuit, frankly. I read, I read the lawsuit. It was silly, but it did break down the ins and outs of the music business.

[Big T]

So.

[PFT Commenter]

So you think it was. It's good that they even made them pay 200 million?

[Pat Cassidy]

No, I think it's bullshit. I mean, yeah, sure, it's. It's some good.

[PFT Commenter]

It's some good, but you think the lawsuit was baseless.

[Pat Cassidy]

You're saying it was not baseless? I think that the result, the settlement is bullshit. It's a nothing burger. And the.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay, I just. When you said the lawsuit was bullshit, you mean the result or the, the basis of it?

[Pat Cassidy]

No, the basis was legit. Okay, the result is bullshit. Okay, settlement.

[PFT Commenter]

I see.

[Big T]

Per the settlement, Live Nation's concert venues would be available for other promoters to book, and those promoters could decide how to distribute and sell up to half the tickets. Live Nation said service fees would be capped at 15% of face value. As part of its loosening control over venues, Live Nation would also divest 13 exclusive booking agreements with amphitheaters nationwide. Ticketmaster would offer both exclusive and non exclusive ticketing proposals to major venues, which could also choose to distribute a portion of tickets through other primary marketplaces. My guess is that there's way more money for venues to do the exclusive deal with Ticketmaster.

[PFT Commenter]

These things are supposed to happen or they don't have to now because they

[Big T]

said these are things that are supposed to happen.

[PFT Commenter]

So the 15% thing would be.

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, on my Madison Beer ticket, right? It was 15 of the face value.

[PFT Commenter]

The Cody Johnson one was 35.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

What happened with the Oasis tickets that went for sale? Like the scalpers?

[Pat Cassidy]

What do you mean?

[Big T]

So wasn't there a thing with Oasis where, when those tickets went live at least maybe some of the British shows, scalpers bought too many of them off the bat and Oasis made Made them.

[Pat Cassidy]

They canceled 50,000 tickets that were resold in violation of terms the band mandated. The resale must only occur at face value through authorized platforms like Ticket or Twickets, which I guess is a very British name for a ticket.

[Big T]

It's Twickets in it.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's Twicket, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I guess. I mean, scalping is a big issue. Scalping is a big issue.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

You know who does their own tickets and is doing so very successfully?

[Pat Cassidy]

Who's that?

[PFT Commenter]

The Savannah Bananas.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, so I bet that itches. Ticketmaster.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. So do you know, so there. They have no fees on anything.

[Pat Cassidy]

This is. Okay. This is a great example of how it should be.

[PFT Commenter]

Well, then. And if you want to resell it, you can only resell it on their platform for face value, no markup or anything. And they do all their own stuff. And they sell out.

[Pat Cassidy]

Ticketmaster so mad at that.

[PFT Commenter]

Now. I think the product is insane, but they're. They're selling out stadiums.

[Big T]

They own their own venue.

[PFT Commenter]

Right?

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right.

[PFT Commenter]

Who?

[Big T]

Bananas?

[PFT Commenter]

No, they go all over the country.

[Big T]

So how are the Bananas able to. Well, but they also play like, home games.

[Pat Cassidy]

So this is, this is a great example.

[PFT Commenter]

I don't know if they have somewhere in Savannah, but they. They just go on a tour.

[Pat Cassidy]

Now, this is my point. So the Savannah Bananas could not, for example, go into, let's say, the Astros stadium in Houston and do their own ticketing because they're going to have an exclusive Ticketmaster deal.

[Big T]

Right?

[Big D]

They do have their own stadium.

[Big T]

Grayson Stadium.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big D]

But they don't like. I think they just tour.

[Pat Cassidy]

Now, you guys follow that Savannah Bananas charity situation? No.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, oh, yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

They. They. It's. It's a real circular situation. So essentially, like, they'll donate a portion of the proceeds to charity, but then that money just goes to a charity that they own.

[Big T]

Oh.

[Pat Cassidy]

That they can then determine how to distribute that money.

[Big T]

Kind of like how much to pay.

[Pat Cassidy]

The dude's wife is on the payroll. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, I was wrong. They can. I guess they can't stop people from reselling them on the, the third party websites, but from them, the tickets are $35 and it's on their own. You have to join the ticket interest list now.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay, this is, this is an issue with Ticketmaster is they have all your info. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay. I assume everyone has my info at this point. What. But what does that do?

[Pat Cassidy]

I mean, just. I just don't want to have my info, you know?

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, yeah, I. I agree. But.

[Big T]

Yeah, but our Info.

[PFT Commenter]

The government's got it, so.

[Pat Cassidy]

That's right. Right.

[Big T]

Yeah. You see that? The. One of the kids from DOGE might have just taken a thumb drive.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Social Security information.

[Pat Cassidy]

He took the master death file.

[Big T]

Yeah. And then he brought it to his new job. He's like, hey, I've got. Would it interest you guys to have a list of all the information for every person in America?

[Big D]

Wait, is that real?

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Yeah. One of the DOGE kids did it.

[Big D]

Is it the same kid who was just Big balls deposed?

[Big T]

We don't know if it was.

[Big D]

Big balls didn't know what DEI was.

[Pat Cassidy]

He knew what DEI was. Was.

[Big D]

Did you see that video?

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. He was being said.

[Big D]

It's exactly what the EO says.

[Pat Cassidy]

He was being a little Billy Clint up there.

[Big D]

Is that the same kid?

[Pat Cassidy]

I don't know. I think this is new because this broke around the same time that that, that that interview was happening.

[Big D]

Is the thumb drive kid gonna get like arrested?

[Pat Cassidy]

No, not in this America.

[Big T]

No, he's fine.

[Pat Cassidy]

He's fine. Don't worry about him. In fact, he breaking news, he's getting the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

[Big T]

Putting stuff on a thumb drive is. That's.

[Pat Cassidy]

How big is that thumb drive? So 2012, how big is that thumb drive? He's gonna put the entire master death file from this.

[PFT Commenter]

What. What kind of thumb drive? Hold.

[Pat Cassidy]

It's a hand drive.

[Big D]

They.

[Pat Cassidy]

They go up four gauge terabytes.

[PFT Commenter]

Really?

[Big D]

I've.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Pat, you're. You're a big AI guy.

[Pat Cassidy]

I mean, I'm luddite, honestly, when it comes to AI.

[Big T]

Same. But can you, can you. I'm. I'm assuming that you know more than us about the, the Open Claw situation.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, yeah. It's absolutely insane.

[Big T]

So can you give us an update on that? Because last we talked about it, Open Claw decided not to do business with the, with the federal government, Department of Defense. Right. Because they were like, we have two rules. One, you can't use this to spy on everyday Americans.

[Pat Cassidy]

Sure.

[Big T]

You can't use this to program anything that is human out of the loop kills. Meaning a human always has to make the decision on whether or not to deploy lethal munitions against a live person.

[Pat Cassidy]

100%. And I just rewatched Terminator 2 to get ready for this question, actually.

[Big T]

Oh, good.

[Pat Cassidy]

Thank you for asking. Yeah.

[Big T]

Okay, so this happens in that everything's cool, right?

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, everything's cool. This is what's fudgeing nuts, Right. So Anthropic, the company that owns Claude, obviously we're seeing all these Silicon Valley Guys with just no morals. They'll sell out everyone and anyone at the drop of a hat. But the CEO of Anthropic drew a line. We got a conscience. A CEO that grew a conscience because the DoD wanted on their new contract that they sent over to Anthropic to remove a couple regulations. So those are the regulations you just outlined. Pft. Specifically, that the air could not be used in any autonomous weapons. And then they also couldn't use the AI to spy on Americans. And Pete Hegseth lost his fucking shit. Like, he couldn't believe it that they were drawing that line. So he threatened to put them on a. Essentially a list that would crush them as a company. It's the same list that you get put on if you're a terrorist organization, absolutely destroying them. And they're at odds right now. I mean, but it's really scary that a CEO is standing up and saying, why? I don't know. And the government is saying, well, if you don't let us do exactly what we want to do with your product, then we're essentially going to ruin your business by putting you on this list.

[Big T]

And then you've got open AI being like, we'll do it.

[PFT Commenter]

Oh, yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

100.

[Big T]

Like, you don't want to. They got ethical problems.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah, we'll pop in there.

[Big T]

We'll do it. It.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

I deleted Chad, GPT and went to Claude when they did that.

[Pat Cassidy]

Good for you.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah, it's like, I don't like it as much, though.

[Pat Cassidy]

Really?

[Big T]

What does Claude do for you? What do you use Claude for?

[PFT Commenter]

I use it for this show.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

I'll put in our. Our research stuff and I'll say, give me a detailed. And you trust that I put it. Well, I've read the thing, so I know if it's, you know, but then I'll. I just use it for stuff that wouldn't be easily Googleable.

[Pat Cassidy]

Sure.

[PFT Commenter]

Like, I don't know. Let me go look at my most recent searches.

[Pat Cassidy]

My favorite At Grok, is this real? Was yesterday when the news broke about the Ravens backing out of the Max Crosby trade. Schefter tweeted the. The image from. From the Raiders, and two seconds later, at Grok, is this real?

[Big T]

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the. The Grok is this real, people?

[PFT Commenter]

I used it the other day for the Eugene Robinson thing when I thought that was Jamal Anderson.

[Big T]

Gotcha.

[Pat Cassidy]

You know, the Technocrats are an issue, man.

[Big T]

I also think I'm. I'm becoming a bigger and bigger believer in the dead Internet theory.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, 100% dude.

[Big T]

Where, like, most. Most comments are from bots. Now, I'm not saying, like, people that reply to us on Twitter or bots. I know that that's not true. But, like, you look at any breaking news thing from, like, shifter. From, like, anybody that's in the news.

[Pat Cassidy]

Dude. Look at. Look at your brother's Twitter.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

If your brother posts anything, there's 45 of these same comments from different accounts.

[Big T]

And the. The ones that, like, rephrase what's in the tweet.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yep.

[Big T]

You can tell who's adding in, like, their. Their little AI splash flair to it.

[Pat Cassidy]

Oh, yeah. When you see the same tweet from.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

100 different accounts at the same time, you're like, okay.

[Big T]

And I've gotten so sick of the. That's not blank. That's blank.

[Pat Cassidy]

What do you mean?

[Big T]

That's how AI writes.

[Pat Cassidy]

Okay.

[Big T]

And it'll be like the United States getting bounced early in the World Baseball Classic. That's not mismanagement.

[PFT Commenter]

That's. Travis.

[Big T]

That's incompetence. Dressed up.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

As news. Like, something like that, you know, so like.

[Pat Cassidy]

Like a pithy 90s insult comic.

[Big T]

Yeah. That's not incompetence.

[Pat Cassidy]

What.

[Big T]

That's.

[PFT Commenter]

Did you see the New York Times quiz?

[Big T]

I did. I. I haven't taken it yet, but I saw the quiz.

[PFT Commenter]

I tried to take it, and it was paywalled and I could.

[Pat Cassidy]

I'm a subscriber.

[PFT Commenter]

How to get around it. But 54% of 86,000 respondents preferred AI writing too. And one of them. The example I saw, the human writing was from Blood Meridian, and the AI was just some nonsense, like, drivel. And I guess people chose.

[Pat Cassidy]

They don't like Cormac McCarthy.

[Big T]

I mean, Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy. Seems like it'll be a very easy one to figure out, like, which one's human, which one is A.I.

[PFT Commenter]

it was. Yeah.

[Big T]

The one that doesn't use commas and is insanely violent is probably Cormac McCarthy.

[PFT Commenter]

Yeah. But on the whole, 54% of people preferred the AI writing.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. But it was. How many AI respondents were there? Is the question.

[PFT Commenter]

I don't know.

[Pat Cassidy]

Could we use AI? Could we figure that bot situation out to spread an idea across the Internet that's not harmful? Like, do you think we could come up with an idea and then get some nerds in on it to do some bot responding and spread that idea and. And get maybe, like, a falsehood to be believed as true?

[PFT Commenter]

Well, yeah, I think that's 2/3 of the Internet.

[Pat Cassidy]

Let's pick one. Let's. Let's pick a. Let's pick a stupid one.

[PFT Commenter]

We've said on this show before, we want to do an episode where we invent a conspiracy.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. You got to.

[PFT Commenter]

We just never do it.

[Pat Cassidy]

So here, here. Here's a good way to do that. And I've been thinking about this for a while. So newspaper.org or newspaper.com newspaper archive, genealogy bank. All the. And then Ancestry. Right. They have all these newspaper archives that you can go back on. And some of these newspapers have not been digitized, like, a lot of them, actually. So if you wanted to spread a conspiracy, what you would do is go back and plant a story in one of these old newspapers and then get it digitized. So then someone's going to be looking through an old newspaper. They're not gonna be able to fact check it because it's there in black and white. And there you have it.

[Big T]

How would you plan it in there?

[Pat Cassidy]

Well, I'd find out what newspaper was not digitized. And then I would go and try to contact whoever had the archive. Right. Whoever's family members. And I'd find, like, two papers. Because that'll happen. You'll go on. And sometimes they'd be just two issues from a paper.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Pat Cassidy]

And I would get one real one and one fake one. And then I'd contact ancestry.com and like, have the digitized version of the. The Wichita press from the 1920s. Bam.

[Big T]

And then people could look it up.

[PFT Commenter]

But how would you physically print it on there?

[Pat Cassidy]

I would. I would get an actual Wichita Press, and then I would fake a digital version, and I'd send two digital versions, one of the real one and one of my fake one of a different issue, to ancestry.com okay.

[PFT Commenter]

So you're just doing it in Photoshop?

[Pat Cassidy]

Hundred percent. Yeah.

[PFT Commenter]

Okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah. They're not gonna know. They're just fired up that they have two more issues of a newspaper they don't have. And then you wait a little bit.

[Big T]

That's actually a really dangerous idea.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yep.

[Big T]

It's pretty cool.

[Pat Cassidy]

No one's exploiting it. Yeah.

[Big T]

I kind of like it.

[PFT Commenter]

Like, you know, of.

[Big T]

You go back and. And just. Really, this would be great to do to just. With somebody. Just like, with your buddy.

[Pat Cassidy]

Yeah.

[Big T]

To go Back to like, 19, 1920 Wichita and be like, dude, did you know that you won the 1920 Wichita Open? And then you have a picture of a guy, like, holding up a golf trophy. That is your friend's face.

[Pat Cassidy]

Right.

[Big T]

And then that guy's like, holy, Holy shit. I'M a time traveler and put a

[Pat Cassidy]

cell phone in that picture, too.

[Big T]

Oh, that would.

[Pat Cassidy]

In the back. Dude, do you know about Ong's Hat?

[Big T]

No. So, like Slenderman.

[Pat Cassidy]

No. In the Pine Barrens of New Jersey, Someone years and years and years and years ago drew a place in the Pine Barrens that wasn't there on a map. And that got around. And then now people make this pilgrimage to this place that doesn't exist in the Pine Barrens.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Pat Cassidy]

Called Ong's Hat. I guess someone made some literature and started handing some pamphlets out saying that there was a time machine there. But it's like one of these conspiracies that gets planted.

[Big T]

Yeah, that would be a very. Yeah, that. That's actually good.

[Pat Cassidy]

Or like the witch is like, you have. Your ancestor has the racist gene, and it's something that can't be fixed.

[Big T]

Yeah, yeah. Or like make somebody's great, great, great, great, great grandfather a Nazi. Yeah. Or like a serial killer in that town, just really with her brain a little bit.

[Pat Cassidy]

Or like he. Like a dog.

[Big T]

Yeah. Yeah. Really bad stuff. Okay. Well, Pat, thank you for joining us today.

[Pat Cassidy]

Thanks for having me.

[Big T]

That's the beef. You can find them online. Hard Factor. Pat, listen to Hard Factor podcast.

[Pat Cassidy]

New show every day. Find it on Apple.

[PFT Commenter]

Podcast response, one time Hard Factor guest.

[Big T]

Big T, let's go. That's right.

[PFT Commenter]

Many years ago. I. I forget what it was.

[Pat Cassidy]

It was. I think it was that shoe size.

[PFT Commenter]

Sure, I could look it up. Yeah, probably.

[Big T]

Expert. Our soul expert.

[PFT Commenter]

Nice.

[Big T]

Cool. Well, we will see you guys next Tuesday. Love you guys. See you there.

[PFT Commenter]

Goodbye.