​​Sam Altman & The Open AI Whistleblower | Oct 9, 2025

Summary

Macrodosing Podcast Summary

Episode: "Sam Altman & The Open AI Whistleblower"

Date: October 9, 2025

Hosts: PFT Commenter, Arian Foster, Big T, Mad Dog, Mackenzie

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Episode Overview

This episode deep-dives into the recent (and mysterious) death of OpenAI whistleblower “Balaji,” explores the ethical, legal, and cultural dangers of AI, and breaks down the rapidly shifting public response to artificial intelligence. The team also discusses the legitimacy of conspiracy theories about Balaji's death, explores copyright and AI lawsuits, and voices concern about the trajectory of “slop” AI culture. Interspersed are anecdotes about sports, running marathons, and some classic Macrodosing camaraderie.

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Major Themes & Discussion Points

1. Sports Banter and Opening Chatter

• [02:02]–[11:10]: The crew opens with talk of baseball and postseason predictions, particularly Big D’s Brewers fandom and how AI might be impacting even simple analytics like fantasy football.
• [11:18]: NFL coach/player dynamics, featuring a debate on whether public berating helps or hurts professional athletes, illustrated through Amari DiMercado, Jonathan Gannon (Cardinals coach), and broader leadership lessons.
  • Quote: "Coaches know who they can and can't do that to... There's a power dynamic. I think it's a sucker move in general." – Arian Foster [12:55]
• [24:25]: Correction on last week’s woodpecker-CTE discussion ("Hand up, I got that one wrong."); segue into AI’s increasing role in sports analytics and medicine.

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2. Marathon Training Life

• [29:53]: Mackenzie discusses prepping for the Chicago Marathon—food, nerves, playlists—and the "psychosis" of people who can run through injuries or...even accidents.
  • Quote: "You want kids to make mistakes and then you correct them afterwards... But in the NFL, he’s gonna beat himself up all day.” – Arian Foster [15:55]
• [33:05]: Post-marathon plans, and the joys (and oddities) of running for distance.

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3. The OpenAI / Whistleblower “Balaji” Story

Context:
Balaji (last name only used for consistency) was a longtime OpenAI researcher who resigned, citing ethical and legal concerns about OpenAI’s business model and its reliance on pirated content to train AI. Weeks before he was set to testify in an ongoing copyright lawsuit against OpenAI, he died of a gunshot wound in his apartment—ruled a suicide by police, contested by his family.

Details Explored:

• [54:46]–[99:57]:
  • Balaji’s background—key developer of foundational OpenAI tech, especially bots that scraped internet data to build large language models.
  • Whistleblower: Balaji’s public and legal opposition to OpenAI’s methods, arguing that it repackages and monetizes creators’ intellectual property without compensation, and that this is piracy, not fair use.
    • Quote: “It doesn’t feel right to be training on people’s data... and then competing with them in the marketplace.” – Balaji, quoted by PFT [96:29]
  • Ongoing New York Times v. OpenAI lawsuit for copyright infringement (detailed fair use analysis).
  • Balaji's death: Ruled a suicide (gunshot, high BAC, GHB in system), but family is skeptical; hired a PI; points of suspicion (messy apartment, alleged struggle, camera/tampering rumors); but no hard evidence against official report.
    • Quote: “Whistleblowers do seem to die a little more often than you would expect…” – Big T [112:37]
• [109:43]: Tucker Carlson’s confrontational but ambiguous interview with Sam Altman about the Balaji case.

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4. The AI Bubble: Ethics, Law & Public Backlash

• [51:00]: “Has the AI boom plateaued?”

  • Discussion that AI’s newness has faded—many tools over-promise and under-deliver in business settings (issues with reliability, hallucinations, legal gray areas).
  • Public increasingly wary of “AI slop”—most think risks outweigh benefits ([57:03] Pew poll: only 17% of US adults believe AI will be positive for the country in 20 years).
    • Quote: "Everything I see on the Internet from just random people is like: this sucks. AI slop is what everybody calls it.” – Big D [59:48]
  • Risks: Collapse of creative professions, mass copyright violation, misinformation, environmental impact (server farms).
    • Quote: “It’s just stealing people’s work.” – Host [94:29]

• [66:44],[67:38]: Dream for "benevolent AI" and why it isn't happening; skepticism that the people running AI companies have true public interest at heart.

• [74:28]: AI’s limits and quirks—the panel jokes about wrestling with ChatGPT’s inability to count planets and spells, underlying the technology’s unreliability.

• [79:17]–[86:18]:

  • In-depth look at Fair Use doctrine vs. OpenAI’s practices; how much AI copying is legal?
  • The “transformative use” defense, why it probably doesn’t fly in practice, and how courts may see it.

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5. AI's Cultural Consequences & “Democratizing Creativity”

• [87:02]: The rise of AI-generated podcasts, art, and now even actors (the “AI actress” Tilly Norwood), and media manipulation—why it’s terrifying to creators.
• [91:57]: A cringeworthy article about “virgin AI actress” triggers disgust and speculation about the threat to human artistic and emotional value.
• [127:33]: AI-generated music and Spotify’s “fake bands” as existential threats to working musicians, screenwriters, and more.
  • Quote: “When Spotify puts out fake bands... How is that not penalty, death penalty? That’s just stealing from all the bands that made that sound.” – Host [126:44]

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6. Regulatory, Political, and Social Backlash

• [118:44]–[121:22]: Could legal action stop runaway AI development, or would foreign/black market versions just take over?

  • Water, energy, and pollution angle: Should governments cap the enormous resources AI firms are monopolizing?

• [132:49]: The AI boom/bubble accounts for a giant chunk of US GDP growth; skepticism this represents anything real for most people.

  • Quote: “Everything is fake. There’s a bubble.” – Big T [133:02]

• [138:32]–[141:38]: Intersection of AI with politics, lobbying, and government contracts—how tech oligarchs (e.g. Peter Thiel) are shaping public policy, including the legal frameworks meant to regulate them.

  • Quote: “How are companies given more of a say in shaping policy that affects them than humans are?” – Host [141:05]

• [145:38]: Leader concerns about copyright reform; panel notes Elon Musk increasingly vocal against copyright laws, possibly to protect AI ambitions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I would have to say... This is dog shit. And I think it's just gonna be the beginning of the end for us. I see no benefit." – Big D [127:49]
• (On “democratizing creativity”): “The fake populism where it’s like we’re giving it back to the people... that’s how they’re marketing it tells me they’re just full of shit.” – Host [129:28]
• “We learned a lot from old Jane [Goodall]. Thank you, Jane.” – Host, eulogizing Jane Goodall [167:20]
• “If Dolly lived 3,000 years ago, there would have been a religion named after her.” – Host [161:01]
• Riff on "Incredibles" villain Syndrome as perfect metaphor for AI developers trying to make “everyone super, so no one is.” [131:20]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Brewers Playoff Talk & Opening: [02:02]–[11:10]
• Coach/Player Power Dynamics in NFL: [11:18]–[23:39]
• Marathon Training Segment: [29:53]–[37:31]
• Woodpecker CTE & AI Quirks: [24:25]–[38:56]
• Balaji, OpenAI Copyright, & Whistleblower Death: [54:46]–[112:07]
• AI Ethics, Bubble, and Public Backlash: [51:00]–[86:18], [111:12]–[135:44]
• AI in Music, Acting, and Media: [87:02]–[94:29]
• Regulation, Politics & Future Fears: [118:44]–[147:15], [138:32]–[146:07]
• Fun Wrap-Up (Dolly, Tennessee, Hip Hop Rankings): [153:59]–[162:22]
• Closing: Jane Goodall Tribute, Sports, and Goodbyes: [166:25]–[169:10]

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Tone and Style

As always, the conversation is loose, genuine, occasionally irreverent, full of sarcasm, dry humor, and sincere skepticism. The hosts are passionate in both their critiques of technology and their love of sports, underlining their expertise with relatable stories, banter, and self-aware humility.

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Conclusion

This episode explores the dark and confusing crossroads of AI innovation, business ethics, copyright law, and human culture, viewed through the lens of a suspicious real-world case. The hosts express deep concern about unchecked AI, skepticism about its current benefits, and a yearning for ethics and fairness—alongside trademark wit and the sense that, in the end, the nerds in charge might still manage to fumble their awesome power.

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For listeners:
If you want to understand the AI dilemma—both technical and cultural—in mid-2020s America, and what’s really at stake in current headline scandals, this episode is essential, eye-opening, and surprisingly fun.

Transcript

[Host]

Hey macrodosing listeners. You can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Mackenzie]

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[Big D]

Postseason walking that it's up there in league history. This this man is balling.

[Big T]

Did you know he is. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. He is one.

[Big D]

Don't let the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning.

[Big T]

I was trying to get into a good break there because before you went on to another thought.

[Big D]

Yeah, not my fault.

[Host]

That's my fault. Welcome back to Macrodosing. What's up? It is Thursday and it is October 9th and we are back. Myself, Aryan, Big t, Mad Dog McKenzie behind the glass. Aryan is not in Chicago. Aryan sent me a big time tease text on Tuesday night. It was just a screenshot of Wrigley Field with some open seats that he was going to buy tickets for. And unfortunately, he did not make the trip up here. Some would say that. That he's ducking the Cubs.

[Big D]

That is not true. It's got some. I gotta handle. I couldn't make it, but I was. I was this close to booking that ticket.

[Host]

It would have been great. Would have been great to have you up here. Even though Aryan has tried to ban me from rooting for the brewers because I posted a video of. I even forget what it was.

[Big D]

It was the lead off home run.

[Host]

Oh, Saya. Yeah, Saya. Just pissing on a ball. I bet him. I. I took a bet on for him to go yard that day, and he did in the first inning, and so I felt good. So I want to post a video of him pissing on it, which the. The ball was pissed on. And for some reason, Arian's now telling me I'm not allowed to root for the brew crew anymore. Guess what? You can't tell me what to do, Arian.

[Big D]

Yeah, well, we just look at you sideways, that's all.

[Host]

That's fine. That's fine. You feeling good? Feeling confident going into tonight?

[Big D]

I'm never overly confident, man, but this is just to. It's a great team. It's a great team to watch. We. We. We have all the elements in place, and it's looking good. I. I remember you saying this time next week or this time next episode, you might be. It might be one to one, and that didn't happen. So no sweep is looking good. We'll see, though, you know? We'll see.

[Host]

Can I. Can I ask you for a favor?

[Big D]

You may not.

[Host]

All right. Asking for a favor. I'll do a demand then. This is the. Consider this a demand, but I. I demand that you give me three players on the brewers that you think are going to get hits tonight.

[Big D]

You gonna. You gonna bet off of this?

[Host]

No comment.

[Big D]

All right. Have they put out there.

[Big T]

Do we know who's pitching for the Cubs?

[Big D]

Oh, yeah. Quinn Priester's on the mound, so that. That tells me they trying to.

[Big T]

For the Cubs.

[Big D]

Oh, no, not the Cubs. I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm sorry. I thought. I'm locked in with the brew cre. Whatever the. They got going on over there don't matter to me. I would say. I would say Jackson Churro maybe having the best postseason walking that it's up there in league history. This. This man is balling, you know, he is.

[Big T]

Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. He has one.

[Big D]

Don't let the middle of my sentence.

[Host]

Interrupt the beginning of your.

[Big T]

I was trying to get into a good break there because before you went on to another thought.

[Big D]

Yeah, not my fault.

[Host]

That's my fault.

[Big T]

He is one home run away from tying the brewers postseason franchise record at four.

[Big D]

Yeah, he's. He's. He's something special. I've been saying it for a while. He's my favorite player to watch. I would bet on him. He. He just shows up, man. He shows up. I'll bet on Jackson. Cheerio. Bryce Tarang has been kind of quiet this postseason, but I would say he had a run where he was probably the best hitter in baseball for a month. So I would say it's his time to step up. So I do. Bryce Tang and William Contreras is on one right now. So if I had to bet, if I was a betting man, I'd do those three. Taking a little bit of a bet. I'm trying to up your.

[Host]

Appreciate.

[Big D]

Trying to up. Yeah. Trying to up your annual with the Bryce to Ring, but I. I definitely think Bryce to Ring is due. If you don't.

[Host]

If you don't.

[Big D]

If you don't believe in Bryce T, Go ahead and go. Oh, my God.

[Host]

No, no. All. All the Bryce Turang haters can off.

[Big D]

Who'S hating on Bryce T. Well, I'm. You.

[Host]

You're trying to give them an out. Being like, if you don't believe in Bryce Tang, that's fine. Yeah. I'm drawing a line in the sand. You got to stand on the show. Right?

[Big D]

No, I mean, he's. He's a man. But if you. But if you. But if you. If you're iffy on him. Christian Yellich, you know, he's. He's that guy. Yeah. You know, I mean, it is what it is, you know, but we excited, man. Oh, Durbin. Durbin's been balling, too, man. We got such a good. This is such a fun team. I don't want the season to end because I know it's going to be different transactions and we're going to lose some guys and I'm gonna have to follow their career.

[Host]

But, yeah, it's never the same.

[Big D]

But, hey, we got Jesus made coming up, too, though. Boy, looking good.

[Host]

Just saying.

[Big D]

Just saying.

[Big T]

How many prospects do you know? Is he yet?

[Big D]

He's the only. There's one more. I forget his name, though. I'd have to look it up. Yeah, I don't. Off. Off top. It's just one. Jesus, mate. There's it's probably Jesus made or some shit like that.

[Big T]

Jesus ma day.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

There's Blake Burke, who's been killing it in Double A this season. He went to UT and then they drafted somebody from UT this year.

[Big D]

I'm trying to remember.

[Host]

I heard about Andrew Fisher and what.

[Big T]

Andrew Fisher he was.

[Big D]

That's the one I heard about, but I couldn't recall his name. Yeah. But purely for ironic purposes, I want Jesus made to absolutely ball for the Brewers. I will get. I will get that jersey, but I'm gonna get, like, a custom one and have his first and last name on the back of his jersey.

[Host]

I like that. They should sell that in the team store.

[Big D]

What?

[Host]

That would be co. That'd be awesome.

[Big T]

I saw some. I've been for Wake Up Barstool. I just happened to wear a jersey on the first one. And then I've been trying to buy some cheap. Like, I go on ebay and look for obscure jerseys to just wear a new win each week, which is. That show is costing me money. But I saw a Jamal Lewis jersey that had Jamal Lewis written all the way out. Did he do that?

[Host]

Yes. So there was a. I'm trying to remember. I know that obviously Ray Lewis played on the Ravens at the same time.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Host]

So that would. That would be the reason for the J.

[Big T]

Sure.

[Host]

I want to say there was a James Lewis that might have played on the Ravens at the same time, and so he might have gone J a M A L instead of just Jama Louis.

[Big T]

Now, teams don't even usually do it if you just have two guys. They'll just put them both.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. But I don't. I don't know that we've ever run into that problem before. I do remember those jerseys. Jamal Lewis was. He was good, man. That dude was. That dude was a beast. I still remember that game. Was it against the Browns where he ran for, like 210 yards, maybe more.

[Big T]

I'm seeing that he may have done J A, but the one I saw on ebay had J a M A L Lewis.

[Big D]

Yeah, I remember J A. I don't remember Jamal Lewis in the whole.

[Sponsor Voice]

The.

[Big D]

The great. Maybe one of the greatest names of all time. What did he put on the back of it? Now I'm spacing. Cromartie. Antonio Cromartie. He put something else in there. What was it?

[Big T]

Is it the names of his 36 children?

[Host]

There was Dominique.

[Big D]

He hyphenated.

[Host]

Rogers. There was Rogers, Cromartie.

[Big D]

That's what it was. Rogers Cromartie.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Host]

Roger and I screwed that up about Jamal Lewis. I severely undersold his game against the Browns. The second I said it, I was like, that's not right. This man had 295 yards.

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Host]

On 30 carries against the Browns back in 2003.

[Big T]

Pretty good.

[Host]

Pretty, pretty great day. Yeah. Only two touchdowns, but yeah, almost 300 yards. What would that be in fantasy points?

[Big T]

How many yards?

[Host]

295.

[Big T]

So it's one for every 10. Right. So that'd be 29.

[Host]

Do you get bonuses at 100?

[Big T]

Some do, yeah.

[Host]

What's the bonus? Usually like two points.

[Big T]

I haven't played fantasy in several years.

[Big D]

I don't. I've never heard of that.

[Host]

I think some leagues do it.

[Big T]

Do you have any catches?

[Host]

Let's look up the stat line here.

[Big T]

And touchdowns.

[Host]

I got the box score. Hang on one second. Stand by. Box score. Jamal Lewis, 30 carries, 295 yards, 9.8 yards per carry on 30 carries, two touchdowns.

[Big T]

So that's 12 plus the 29 is 41.

[Host]

And he had zero receptions. Kind of a one dimensional player.

[Big T]

So 41.5 with no bonuses.

[Host]

Yeah. Pretty good day.

[Big T]

Not bad.

[Host]

I would expect it to be higher, I'll be honest.

[Big T]

Behind one of the co hosts on this show. And career collegiate rushing yards.

[Host]

How about that?

[Big D]

I mean, I was there for a long time.

[Big T]

Was he only there for three years?

[Big D]

I would assume, yeah.

[Big T]

Yeah. 97 to 99.

[Host]

Arian, I wanted to talk to you about a play that happened over the weekend. We saw another, another running back drop the ball at the 1 inch line. Amari Di Mercado on the Cardinals.

[Big D]

I did see that play.

[Host]

And then he went to the sidelines and his coach, Jonathan Gannon came up to him. Have you seen that video?

[Big D]

I have seen that video.

[Host]

He, it looked like he grabbed him, screamed in his face, and then kind of hit him as he walked away. Like, I don't know if it was like a backhanded slap or just like shoved his forearm into him as he walked away. Jonathan Cannon Gannon has now been fined a hundred thousand dollars by the NFL. Or let's see, is this by the NFL or is this the. I think the team, the Arizona Cardinals, are finding Jonathan Gannon a hundred thousand dollars for what happened during the game. From your perspective, I mean, you, you lived in this world for a long time. You probably had coaches that didn't, you know, weren't super happy with you.

[Big D]

That's, that's actually crazy. You've lived in this world for A long time. It's kind of.

[Host]

Yeah. Like I. I can say what I think.

[Big D]

Oh, you mean the football world. I'm sorry. I took that as like, it's just the world I got.

[Host]

Which is true. Which is true.

[Big D]

You're not wrong.

[Host]

And that' a great sign that if somebody says something to you, like, they might be talking about football and be like, you've lived in this world, your thought immediately goes to, like, you as a person. That's a great thing. Yeah, but I, I was saying, like, as a fan, I know what I think when I see this. And my favorite reactions are people being like, my coach used to do that to me. I turned out great. But from an NFL player's perspective, did you ever have a coach that got so mad that they put their hands on you?

[Big D]

Oh, no. 1, there wasn't anything for me to be mad about. But two, even if there was, coaches know who they can and can't do that to. I'll say that right now, there are dudes that I play with and that play this game that ain't all there, and they will fight you if you do some silly shit like that. Like, they just. It just is what it is. And so coaches know what guys are docile enough to not want to do, not to do that to. I'll say that first and foremost. Secondly, I think it's a sucker move in general. Like, it's a. Because there's a power dynamic. Right. If I don't like to call you man, if you make a grave mistake as a coach and I come up to you and push you, it's a behavioral issue. This cat can't control his emotions, yada, yada. But when a coach does it, it's never looked. Looked at the same way. And so I've never been a fan of coaches putting their hands on players. I think it's. I think it's. I think it's whack. I think it's. It's a. Sets a bad precedent. I'm always like, what is the. You catch more? Not the one Maddie said, but they catch more flies or honey.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

What.

[Mackenzie]

What did Maddie say you catch more flies with?

[Big D]

Wait, catch my flies with honey? Would you catch more honeys being fly?

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Host]

You know, so. I think so.

[Big D]

I think. I think it's just better to like, yo, that's a teachable moment. That's happened before. It's a bonehead play is what it is. He's a. He's. He's a good athlete. So you want to do Just gonna on him. And it just ruins the confidence. I'm against ruined players confidence, especially during a game. I'm against that. You up? All right. Dog is what it is. Either put him in or don't put him back in. But all that is that weak.

[Big T]

I actually hadn't seen the end of the video where he kind of gives him that slap. That changes my opinion. But, I mean, he did fuck up royally.

[Host]

He did.

[Big T]

And it wasn't a physical mistake. It was a completely avoidable mental error. Now, I will say I'm pretty sure he scored.

[Host]

It was very close.

[Big T]

His foot, in the angle that you see his foot is like on the line or above it and the ball is ahead of his foot. And they. They overturned it. Now you make an argument you should overturn it just for the sheer stupidity.

[Host]

Out of principle, but young man should have held on to the ball.

[Big T]

I think he actually probably scored.

[Host]

It was. It was super close. Yeah, The. The fact that his coach got up in his face, like, if you're Jonathan Gannon, yelling at the guy is not going to make anything better. It's. It might make you feel better for a second because you're like, this guy, he just cost us seven points. And like, that's an inexcusable mistake to make. It's the dumbest thing ever to do on a football field. Might make you feel better because you get your rage out on the guy, but it's not going to help him. He's not going to get better because of that. It's kind of your job as a coach.

[Big T]

I liked, I think it was Paris Johnson, like, kind of stood there with his arm around him as he was taking it.

[Big D]

I liked that at that level. That's what bothers me. At the NFL level, you know what you've done wrong. You don't need somebody berating you like that. So to me, that's why it's bad coaching. To me, it's bad coaching because it's like, it's bad leadership. Like, you want to go to war with somebody that anytime you have a mistake, you afraid of him breathing down your neck. Yes. You're not going to be at your best. I always tell little league coaches this. Right. That's my opinion and stuff. Like if you see a kid and when they. When they make a mistake or if they do anything, if the play's over and they immediately look to the sidelines, that is bad. You are in their head. You don't want that. You want kids, they're going to make mistakes. Right. So you want them to make mistakes and then you correct them afterwards. But in the NFL, he going to beat himself about that all day long. That's going to fuck with him for a very long time. It's better to be like, hey, we got your back. It's, you know, better. It is what it is. Let's move, let's move on. Or if, if that's the case, just, just, just go ahead and cut him. But now that is for sure. I hate it.

[Host]

Yeah. Like, we don't know, maybe they've had issues in practice. Maybe it's been like a contentious relationship where Gannon feels like the Mercado hasn't listened to him and there's like a built in pass to their relationship that we don't know about. Now he's like, this is what I've been telling you. Got to keep your hat. We don't know what's going on.

[Big D]

Right.

[Host]

But I do know that if he had swung back on him, that would have been a real problem because he would have beat the dog piss out of his coach. And then it becomes a whole issue where it's like, the Cardinals are fighting on the sidelines, we got players punching coaches. What do we do about that? And it would not work out well in favor of, of Gannon if that exchange were to happen.

[Big D]

But, yeah, they know what players to do that to, because there are players that will hit you back, I promise you.

[Host]

Yes.

[Big D]

So they know. That's why it's like, yeah, it's like a bullet. It's like a bully tactic to me. Like, you, you don't gonna do that to the 6, 5, 320, Declan. You ain't gonna do that.

[Host]

You know? Yeah, yeah, it was, I did like, the reaction from people online being like, I used to be coached like this all the time when I was a kid in youth football. So my coach grabbed me by the face mask. A guy that's like 60 years old, didn't ever actually play past high school. And then they're, they're trying to impart that, like, it'd be good if he actually, like punches Blair harder. That's what, what I think it is. It's a lot of people that, that either bet on the Cardinals and lost or maybe like had some sort of fantasy implication that they are glad that Jonathan Gannon voiced their displeasure, like, as a surrogate for how mad they were at that play happening. But, yeah, you can't, you can't do that in the NFL. I'm, I'm actually surprised that he wasn't like, suspended by the team.

[Big D]

I mean, teachable moment on all, on.

[Host]

All ends, I guess. So they'll do like a speech in front of the, in front of the team this week.

[Big D]

That's what I don't want, though. I don't want that either because it's not genuine. Just move on. Yeah, happens. Move on. I hate addressing in public like that anyway. Especially when it's in house.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, would it be better to not talk about it at all or for like, during the, the full team meeting for him to publicly apologize?

[Big D]

No, like if, if, if. I think it'd be if. If the press asked some questions like, yeah, we addressed it internally. You know, I probably shouldn't lay my hands on him like that. That. Not probably, but I shouldn't lay my hands on him. That's fine. But if you hold the press conference to address it. I hate that type shit. I like Tiger woods addressing his infidelity. Like, that was weird.

[Host]

As though his mom was there.

[Big D]

Yeah. It's like, I've disrespected my. Why are we here? I don't need to know. I don't need to be here.

[Host]

Yeah, they have to, like, they rent out an auditorium and then invite the press to it and then like, set up a podium so he can be like, I. I had sex with so many women and I'm. I'm sorry, sir.

[Big D]

How horny were you?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Silly ass display of giving a fuck.

[Host]

Now, if Eddie DeMarcado had, like, a good sense of humor, what he would do is the next game, he does that again and then gets his. And then you have to fire Gannon for not coaching that out of him.

[Big D]

Right.

[Big T]

I was thinking when y' all were talking about all this, obviously he should have handled it differently, but, like, if you're a coach, that game that they would have won easily, if he scores that touchdown and they end up losing.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

To the worst team in the NFL. That they're probably a fringe playoff team. That could keep them out of the playoffs. That could lead to Gannon losing his job. Like, it was a huge deal. It could.

[Host]

It could lead to a lot of people losing their job.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like Gannon, if they don't make the playoffs, good chance he gets fired. If it's a disappointing season and you have a glaring home loss to the Tennessee Titans, who, my guess is probably won't have too many other wins this year.

[Big D]

But that's my point, though. So that, that bolsters my point is if. Okay, you. This is your Roster, right? This is the guys you chose to go to war with. You picked them as, as a staff. Do I want my guys scared of making mistakes? Like, show me an athlete that does better because they're scared the fuck up.

[Big T]

I agree with you, but it is a little. It's not like he fumbled like in a pile, like he, he dropped the ball on purpose.

[Big D]

But as a format, this is just from my spot. And maybe people respond better to yelling and shit. But as a former athlete, there's nothing better than like, so if I fumbled in the NFL, the first thing Kubiak does to me, he'll be like, hey, we gotta hold on to the fucking ball. Right? He'll say some shit like that. But the next drive he put me in, every single time in the first play, he's giving me the ball. And to me that's like, I got his back, he has my back. I want to go to war with a dude like that, right. Rather than like all of this like uncertainty and I.

[Host]

It's.

[Big D]

It makes players want to play. It makes players play with confidence. I'm just thinking from like a leadership standpoint. It don't make no sense to be raise your players. It doesn't make. They know they. Especially at that league at that level. He gonna get it all over that clip gonna follow him for the rest of his career. So he know he gonna up.

[Big T]

If he waited until Monday when they were watching film and screamed at him, would you have a problem with that?

[Big D]

No, that's. What, that's fine. Okay. Because when we in the lab and we are, we are working, that's when you want to get all your little hoosing hooping and hollering out, hey dog.

[Host]

But when we.

[Big D]

We in a game. Cool again. Cool. Was really good at this. Especially during the playoffs. There was no negativity and I loved it. Cause like, hey, you fucked up. We move on next play. Fuck that shit, move on. And I loved that. I loved how he did that. I feel like that's a great way to lead.

[Host]

I would agree. Sometimes though, teams can bond over. Fuck the coach. Right?

[Big D]

That's true.

[Host]

Like, I think that happens across. Across most sports. I didn't play at a high level, but I've been in a situation where I like our team genuinely came together and we're like, fuck this guy, He's a piece of shit. All we got is each other, that type of thing.

[Big D]

Yeah, there's nothing better than those coming to Jesus team meetings.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Captain say hey everybody. Meeting after practice, that could get dangerous. Though, too. It can turn into a lot of finger pointing you gotta have.

[Host]

Yeah, and sometimes some people start, like, using that as the opportunity for them to talk, and they're not really contributing to the team that much, but they feel like they got something to say in the team meeting, and then that gets people mad at each other. Yeah, it can. It can go south pretty fast.

[Big T]

Do you ever have a players only meeting?

[Big D]

Oh, maybe every year I played.

[Big T]

Really?

[Host]

That was all the time.

[Big T]

But that's not what you want.

[Big D]

We had it during years that were going good.

[Host]

You never hear about those. You always hear about the players only meeting when things are going poorly. Yeah, but I mean, the Dolphins had one before the season started.

[Big D]

Yeah, I mean, I think. I think it's important. It shows. Hey, which. What's going on? Like, let's. Let's talk. It's communication, like, what we think the problems are. I think you should always have players on the meme because, I mean, a lot of. A lot of them were probably trickled down from the coach, like, from the quarterback. Like, hey, y' all need to call the meat. You know, talk to the guys.

[Host]

Yeah, but let's see. Let's see some leadership there, son.

[Big D]

Yeah, but, yeah, it was communication.

[Big T]

Go for you.

[Host]

I'd like to clean up something that I said on Tuesday's show. I guess this would be last Thursday's show. Woodpeckers do, in fact, get cte.

[Big D]

How about that?

[Host]

Hand up. Like, I got that one wrong. And this. I try to be right as much as I can in this business, and I do everything that I possibly can to make sure every word out of my mouth is the God's honest, golden truth. And Woodpeckers, they. Yeah, they get. They get cte. I looked it up because I read a study a while ago saying that football and the NFL specifically was studying birds and woodpeckers to try to figure out how to make, you know, the brain safety thing, get it, take it to the next level. And there was a more recent study that just came out, I think, last year that showed massive evidence of cte. Like, every old woodpecker out there is up. Like, they're. They're all walking around with severe brain damage.

[Big D]

That's kind of wild. You would think over time they would develop some kind of safety measure to protect. Because, I mean, that's. That's, like, all they do, right?

[Host]

That's their job. Yeah, that's how they. That's how they go day to day now. They probably. I mean, they. They make it through like mating age. I, I would assume that the more that that's been selected out where it's like, yeah, woodpeckers start to reproduce at this age and then afterwards they lose their virality and they get CT and all this stuff, but it's enough to keep the population going. But yeah, I, I got that one wrong. What can I say?

[Big D]

That's honest mistake, man. I mean, I'm not going to look at what's the context in that because that was the show I missed, clearly.

[Host]

Yeah, we were talking to the, the neuroscientist and we dove into concussions just a little bit at the very end. And then we were talking about the different ways that you can maybe make, you know, football a little bit safer. And I started talking about, I started talking out my ass apparently about how woodpeckers don't get CTEs or CTE and, and I made it sound like I knew what I was talking about. I didn't know. So that's my fault for not staying up to date on the scientific literature out there. But it's a, it's a relatively new discovery that they've made in the last like two years.

[Big D]

So I like about you, man. Your opinion changes with the data. Yeah, Love it.

[Host]

Now they are more resistant to it, but they, they do get it.

[Big D]

Interesting.

[Host]

And their tongue does, it does help absorb some of the impact as they're banging their head into a tree.

[Big T]

So.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

What about, what about rams?

[Host]

I talked about that too. I did not do any follow up research on rams. Big T, can you, can you google that one for me?

[Big T]

Looking at it. But theirs is their horns. Right?

[Host]

They got horns.

[Big T]

It doesn't get too much to the head.

[Big D]

Yeah, but it's, they go straight to the head.

[Big T]

But the horns absorb a lot of it.

[Big D]

I don't know enough about rams, I'll be honest, but I thought it was straight to the dome.

[Host]

I think the horns do absorb a good amount. That'd be my guess.

[Big T]

I'm not seeing any definitive literature on rams.

[Host]

We gotta start looking into that.

[Big D]

While rams have biological adaptations like shock absorbing horms and increased blood flow to their brains, they are still susceptible to brain injury, TBI and can exhibit chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

[Big T]

Cephalopathy.

[Big D]

Well, so it looks like they still.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Think they can.

[Big T]

I'm seeing something from acta neuropathologica that says some animals like rams and bighorn sheep might suffer some head trauma. I mean, you would, they'd have to.

[Host]

Mm.

[Big D]

Typed in. Do rams get cte. And one of the things that popped up was, does Rob Gronkowski have cte?

[Big T]

Did you see him try to pronounce a mecca buka the other day?

[Host]

I think he did that one on purpose because the first time he did it, he pronounced it like three different ways and got roasted for it. I think the most recent one, he was playing it up.

[Big T]

You think?

[Host]

I think so, yeah.

[Big T]

Did you see Big Poppy last night?

[Big D]

No.

[Host]

What did he say?

[Big T]

Oh, they were talking about Cam Schlitler and they were like, oh, how do you say it? How do you say it? Whatever. And then Big Papa goes, well, sounds like Hitler. And they're like, all right, let's go to break.

[Host]

It does.

[Big T]

Yeah, it does rhyme.

[Host]

That is just the fact that it does indeed sound like that.

[Big T]

He's a hell of a ball player.

[Host]

He is really good. So he's pitching tonight, right?

[Big T]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Great ball player. He's from Massachusetts.

[Big T]

Did not know.

[Host]

And his. I think his dad was a chief of police right outside Boston.

[Big T]

That's right. I do remember hearing this.

[Host]

And they. They got to move.

[Big T]

Yeah. I mean, that's a tough situation.

[Host]

They got to move.

[Big T]

It's like the. The inverse Jeter downs.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Is he still with the Red Sox? Where is he? Oh, he's with the Yankees.

[Host]

That. That was always going to happen. Yeah. So shout out Woodpecker. If you see Woodpecker out there, just be nice to it because it's probably, you know, it doesn't remember the names of its. Of its kids.

[Big T]

Oh, sorry. He was in the Yankees organization last year. This year he played for the Softbank Hawks.

[Host]

That's tough to be Jeter and get set down. It really is. Also, shout out McKenzie. She's running in the Chicago Marathon this week. The only person to my knowledge in this office to be running that.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely no one else.

[Big T]

What time is that at?

[Maddie]

My start time is around 8:30, but it starts at the first.

[Big T]

Right. About perfect.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

The first is like, starts at 7:30. I think there's four start times and it's like every 30 minutes.

[Mackenzie]

I'm so excited.

[Host]

Are you nervous?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

I honestly don't know how I feel like it's gonna happen. And that's sort of how I feel basically. But I simultaneously think about it every second, but then also am like forgetting that it's this week and I need to be like, focused and ready to go. So we'll say I. I feel fine about it. It'll be. It'll be fun.

[Host]

Have you thought about, like, Your night.

[Maddie]

Before meal, definitely pasta. My parents will be here, so I'm trying to figure out the best place to sort of get a good meal like that. But like, you can't have too many. There can't be like too many variants of it. Like it has to be like relatively plain. So.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

But pasta will definitely be the move for me.

[Host]

A lot of water.

[Maddie]

A lot of water. A lot of electrolytes.

[Host]

Do you have a playlist ready to go?

[Maddie]

I do have a playlist. I also have been running to podcasts, which sounds kind of crazy, but I was just like over listening to music and I tried listening to podcasts and it kind of helped distract me while I was running. So I'm gonna download like a bunch of new podcasts or like podcasts that I just like listen to all the time.

[Host]

Do you know what podcast you're gonna be listening to?

[Maddie]

I think Las Culturistas and I think that's the main one. Probably Giggly Squad and yeah, probably those two.

[Host]

I wondered if there's like any science behind that. If you run faster to podcasts that make you laugh. If you run faster to podcasts that make you think.

[Maddie]

Yeah, yeah, I. I've been listening to ones that make me laugh, so I'd really only have. I don't think they necessarily help me run faster. I mean, I'm not running for speed regardless.

[Host]

Running for power.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

I'm running to finish it, so I don't know. I think it helps. I thought I was. It was gonna like drag on, but I tried it and I really liked it. So I think it probably just depends on the person, but I think probably making you laugh would be the most helpful distraction.

[Host]

Do you have a. This is very important. Do you have a post race meal planned out?

[Maddie]

I actually don't. I. My sister was asking about that yesterday and I hadn't even thought about it.

[Host]

You get to eat whatever you want.

[Maddie]

Literally.

[Mackenzie]

Whatever you want.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

But I'm gonna have to think on that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Oh, yeah. There will be ice cream involved later in the day.

[Host]

Yes.

[Mackenzie]

You want to drink or two?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Yes.

[Host]

Oh, you're gonna get so drunk so fast.

[Maddie]

I know, right?

[Host]

Yeah, that's almost. That's that's worth it to run a marathon right there. Save a ton at the bar.

[Maddie]

Yes, exactly. Just one drink and I'll be blacked out.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

But yeah, I'll have to think of my. My after race meal. If anyone has suggestions, I'm open to it.

[Host]

I. I feel like it's gonna be one of Those answers where they say you actually can't eat all that you want to eat.

[Maddie]

Yeah, yeah, somebody. Yeah, somebody will like ruin the.

[Host]

Yeah, they'll be like, well, actually you gotta be careful. Your stomach is going to be a little bit shrunk from all the, all the running and so you're only going to be able to eat like an appetizer. You're not gonna be hungry. Yeah, just eat whatever you want. Have fun.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

After, Before, I understand the. There's a lot of scheduling for like what you should eat at what time, but I understand that beforehand. But after it's like, okay, I'm gonna do whatever I want probably.

[Host]

Are you doing any training this week?

[Maddie]

Like just tapering they call it, which I learned this week. So not, not any sort of like long distances. My last long run was this Saturday and then I've been doing like two to three miles this week, like every day.

[Host]

That's like nothing to you now, right?

[Maddie]

Yeah, it's so weird. When I finish a three mile run, I'm like, oh, okay. That was just like the warm up, basically.

[Host]

Did you have any places along the way while you were training where it felt like it was. It was tough to break through certain distances?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

Like, honestly, the half, the half marathon mile point was sort of like where I was getting stuck and I wanted to get up to 18 to 20 miles. But my long. That one, when I was planning to do that, only got up to like 16 and a half maybe. And I was like on the verge of tears, like, could not go any longer. And so that was like just under 17, I think it was, that I got up to. And it was, I was. It was not a good day to have that long run.

[Host]

What about the day after that?

[Maddie]

It was not great. Even right after I got home, still on the verge of tears, just not in pain, but just could barely walk from my couch into my kitchen and was just so sore. So the marathon should be interesting, but I'm hoping.

[Mackenzie]

Adrenaline.

[Maddie]

Yeah, that's what everyone says. The adrenaline will kick in. And it's like, I don't know. All I can think is just keep running. It can't be that hard. Just keep going.

[Host]

You gotta make sure to pace yourself.

[Maddie]

Oh, yeah. I will not be. I will not be going for speed like I said. So it will be, it will be a slow, a slow start. Hopefully I can finish strong at the end.

[Big D]

All right.

[Host]

I'm excited.

[Maddie]

Yeah.

[Host]

Good luck.

[Sponsor Voice]

Thank you.

[Host]

Hey, congrats.

[Big D]

Congrats.

[Host]

By the way. That's really dope.

[Big D]

You're doing this.

[Maddie]

Thank you. That means a lot. I keep forgetting it's like sort of a big thing that people do. But yeah, hopefully it'll be, it'll be over soon, so that's all that matters.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

But I'm excited.

[Host]

It's gonna feel so good once you're done.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Yes. Then you never have to run again.

[Maddie]

Yes, exactly. So one of the boys that's running here was like, yeah, you're gonna start, like, even after you'll start, your body's gonna like be craving running. I'm like, I don't think I'm gonna have that sort of craving for running.

[Host]

No. You know. You know what greyhound dogs do after they retire from racing?

[Big T]

No.

[Host]

They don't do shit. Yeah, they don't. They. All they do is they just sleep all day, they hang out. I'm fucking done with running. Never ask me to run anywhere again.

[Maddie]

Yeah, that'll be me.

[Host]

Well, good luck. We're rooting for you.

[Maddie]

Thank you.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you.

[Host]

Don't poop on yourself. Have you thought about that? Have you watched the videos, the runners pooping?

[Maddie]

Yes, I have. I have seen videos, I've seen pictures and I just like, I would not allow that to happen. And if it did happen, like against my own will, I would quit the race immediately and go home.

[Host]

Yeah, I. This is not a knock against you, Mackenzie, but I think the people that end up pooping on themselves are the psychos that have the ability to just turn off everything in their brain that's saying, hey, you're about to die.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I, I know that you're determined and you're going to finish, you're going to do great, but I don't think that you have that switch where it's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna run, I'm gonna keep running even if my body shuts down.

[Maddie]

No, that is most definitely not my mentality.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Maddie]

So, yeah, it is. I think it's those types of people that do that. So hopefully I'll stay away from that.

[Host]

All right. It's going to be fun. Today's episode, by the way, is brought to you by Sport Clips Haircuts. Guys come in looking like they've just been sacked by a 250 pound linebacker, but they walk out looking like a first round pick. Sport Clips stylists have the playbook for a clean cut. They've mastered the X's and O's of men's hair. And with the MVP haircut experience, you get a hot steam towel, a massaging Shampoo and you get that precision cut. It's the whole nine yards. When you step into sport Clips, you're walking into a zone for guys. The games are on. The stylists just get it. This is a place that's designed for guys to win and walk out with a haircut. Ready for the highlight reel. Sport clips, it's a game changer. Stop into your local sport clips today. Get the mvp. Get the hot steam towel. Get all of it. Sport clips, game changer. All right, Big T, let's. First of all, you got a Tennessee minute for us. Any. Any preview.

[Big T]

Arkansas this week coming off firing their coach. We got Bobby Petrino back in the saddle.

[Host]

Yep.

[Big T]

Two kind of similar teams statistically when you look at it, high powered offenses, not outstanding defense. So I think the total is like 65 and a half or something.

[Host]

Should be fun.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Host]

When's the big T's dropping?

[Big T]

This morning on Wake Up Barstool as you're listening.

[Host]

Okay. It should be out when you put it in.

[Big T]

Unless you're Bobby Bones, one of those people that listens at 4am shout out Bobby Bones. Yeah, he's big week for he and I this week.

[Host]

Yeah, he's probably our first listener.

[Big T]

Could be.

[Host]

He's probably the first guy to listen every day. But yeah, I know that.

[Big T]

One of the first who wakes up because doesn't it. It goes up at like midnight. So there could be some who are still awake.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

On Wednesday night.

[Host]

Yeah. But you and him have been. Been going back and forth a little bit.

[Big T]

Yeah, I think he's going. He told me so.

[Host]

I love that. Yeah. Can you. Can you text me when you put that in? When you put the bed in?

[Big T]

It's been in. You. You want it before it hits the streets?

[Big D]

I.

[Host]

Number one, I want it before it.

[Big T]

Hits the streets because I guess we could give it out right now because we move the line.

[Host]

But the reason why I ask is because it does take me like 10 minutes to put the bed in because you have to go into every single game, adjust the lines, look back at what you sent me.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Host]

If you tell me when it goes in, then I can just go to the betting group, the draftkings sportsbook that we have and I'll just put add to my slip. Or you can just text me the link to it.

[Big T]

That is true. I guess we can do it on this show right now since it'll already be out.

[Host]

Okay.

[Big T]

Alabama, Missouri over 41 and a half.

[Big D]

Okay.

[Big T]

Michigan State moneyline at home against UCLA.

[Host]

All right.

[Big T]

Oregon money line at home against Indiana.

[Host]

What's the spread of Michigan State?

[Big T]

I think it's down to like seven and a half. People bet the hell out of ucla, which I, I think they're due for some regression.

[Host]

I like that they're due after one week.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Big T]

They're turning back into a pumpkin.

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Oregon Moneyline at home against Indiana. Oklahoma plus 10 and a half against Texas and the Red river shootout. Georgia Tech -5 1/2 at home against Virginia Tech and Texas A and M Moneyline at home against Florida. Okay, that is + 392 there.

[Host]

There are a lot of ones in there this week that I, I hear and I, I shudder a little bit.

[Big T]

Like which ones?

[Host]

But that's good, I think.

[Big T]

Which one?

[Host]

Because the last ones I've felt too good about.

[Big T]

Okay. To be fair on legs, the last two weeks were what, like 12 and 2?

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Host]

But I felt really confident that they were all going to hit. I hear this one out loud and I think to myself, which ones? I mean, yeah, maybe I'm a little bit square, but ucla, the offense looked good last week. There's not a lot of tape out there on New High School's offense.

[Big T]

If UCLA goes on the road and beats somebody, God bless them, Michigan State, we deserve to lose.

[Host]

Michigan State's not that great.

[Big T]

They're fine.

[Host]

They're fine. Yeah, exactly.

[Big T]

They're a solid team. Playing one of the worst teams in.

[Host]

Power 5 at home that just beat.

[Big T]

That will now be prepared and not caught off guard.

[Host]

Okay, there's that one. There is the Indiana one. Makes me a little bit nervous.

[Big T]

Indiana's not beating Oregon on the road.

[Host]

It just makes me a little. I don't think that they are either, but it wouldn't be the craziest thing.

[Big T]

Listen, you don't have to do this.

[Host]

I'm going to do it.

[Big T]

You don't have to.

[Host]

I'm gonna do it.

[Big T]

This is a, this is a tea thing.

[Host]

We're talking it out. And then you live your life. And then DG Lagway, he might be good.

[Big T]

Maybe.

[Host]

Big T. How in tune with the hand surgeon community in Norman, Oklahoma, are you?

[Big T]

Well, if you're referring to Dr. Steven Shin, he works out of Cedars Sinai Hospital in la. So I think I'm a little more in tune than you are.

[Host]

Okay, that's. That's a great answer. Yeah, that's a great answer. How are we feeling? What have you heard about Mater? And they're.

[Big T]

They're keeping it. Brent Venables is pretending he doesn't Even know what a thumb is they're practicing inside. Nobody knows. Yeah, one of the. Eddie Radasovich who's a really good reporter.

[Host]

I love Eddie.

[Big T]

Yeah, he. He's been staking out on campus, so. But nobody knows anything.

[Host]

Eddie. Eddie is such a funny guy. Yeah, he is the best. He'll have that scoop before anybody does. I guarantee you that.

[Big T]

I would. I would assume so.

[Big D]

He's probably.

[Big T]

I think you're not going to know till kickoff.

[Host]

I bet you Eddie's hiding in closets, like in the library with a. With a glass that's put up to the door of the closet just in case Mater walks by. Yeah, that he can pick up on.

[Big T]

They said he's been throwing.

[Host]

So has he.

[Big T]

If he comes back for the Texas game and they win, Dr. Stephen Shin could be governor of the state of Oklahoma.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

He's apparently like the number one hand surgeon in the world, so that's. That's pretty interesting.

[Host]

Well, yeah, I mean, but the memes.

[Big T]

About him were incredible.

[Host]

It's also funny. His name is Shen and he's a hand guy.

[Big T]

That's true. That solidified Oklahoma as an SEC school to me. Their. Their fan base is memes about John Matiere's hand surgeon.

[Host]

That's.

[Big T]

Yeah, that's sec.

[Host]

When you became sec.

[Big T]

Yeah. Texas still not in?

[Host]

Not there yet. No.

[Big T]

Golf season is in full swing and.

[Host]

Getting out there to work on your.

[Big T]

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[Host]

The other bit of news that you sent over, Big T. The Candace Owens, Charlie Kirk stuff. This has been. This has been kind of wild to watch it play out because she's now dropping text messages that I think have. Have they been confirmed?

[Big T]

Turning Point said they're real. Yeah.

[Host]

Confirmed as being real. Saying that he was texting her, that he was sick of Netanyahu's stuff and.

[Big T]

That they lost a two million dollar donor because he said he, it says, just lost another huge Jewish donor. $2 million a year because we won't cancel Tucker. I'm thinking of inviting Candace. I don't know if that was to an event or something.

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Leaving me no choice but to leave the pro Israel. Cause that's from Charlie Kirk.

[Host]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know that this points to him being assassinated by anybody besides who we. We think that it is right now, but it's interesting nonetheless.

[Big T]

And she also claims she doesn't have this in writing, but she claims that the day before he was shot, he told somebody, I feared they're trying to kill me.

[Host]

Right. That. That one.

[Big T]

We don't know if that's true.

[Host]

Yeah, she. She might have heard somebody say something that. Who knows?

[Big T]

But she also said, I. I won't reveal who that is because they told me that off the record. That's not what off the record means. Yeah, off the record means you wouldn't say it. Yeah, that's on background, which I. If they told you off the record and you said it, that's not what. Off the record.

[Host]

That's on background without attribution is what she's thinking of. But yeah, she said it. Yeah. It's interesting, even if it has no relevance to his. His murder, to see, like, how the money works sometimes behind the scenes, especially if you're like, you know, the. The number one news source or news slash opinion slash politics source for millions of people that what you say is influenced by whoever's writing the checks for you. So I guess. I guess good for. Good for them for putting this out.

[Big T]

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, she's definitely all for Rocker right now, but it seems like some of her information is true. So.

[Host]

Yeah, who knows? There's a lot of people.

[Big T]

She's got a lot going on right now.

[Host]

She does, right? She's. She works a lot. I'll give her. I'll give her that. She's always up to something.

[Big T]

What time does her show air? I feel like every two hours I see a new clip. Is she just on eight hours a day?

[Host]

Yeah. What did. Does she, like, ever just, like, chill on the couch and watch Netflix?

[Big T]

I don't think so. She probably canceled Netflix.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, she probably did, like, would do. Do you think she. She goes home from work and she, like, cooks herself dinner, and while she's making dinner, she's like that. That lady is a man. I just know it is she, like, thinking, bro, she.

[Big D]

She has a husband and kids cooking.

[Host]

Them dinner, but she puts out. Just.

[Big T]

Wouldn't a trad wife not have a job outside the home?

[Big D]

It's not. It's not looked upon favorably in that crowd. You should be at home cooking, taking care of your husband, the breadwinner.

[Host]

But if you're not doing that, the next best thing you can do is to have an extremely lucrative career as A workaholic that talks about how the best type of life is to be a trad wife.

[Big D]

That is, that is true.

[Host]

Okay, Just wanted to.

[Big D]

It is, it is an interesting turn of events though. It's like so, like before this. So as a far leftist, I would say criticizing Israel was a far leftist position because Democrats and Republicans alike are extremely backing of Israel. The thing that is interesting to me is more and more I see the far right calling out Israel and that is interesting to me. You see it playing out. And granted I think there, I will say I think some of their thing goes into the evil Jews conspiracy, but criticizing Israel itself is becoming more popularized, especially in the midst of everything going on, the genocide of Gaza and stuff. So it's been, it's been interesting events. Transphobic, Transfolding.

[Host]

Transpiring, I got.

[Big T]

Yeah, unfolding.

[Big D]

Yeah, unfolding and transpiring. It. Transform.

[Host]

It could be a word. Transfolding, actually. Yeah, that's a cool thing to think about.

[Big D]

Yeah, it's interesting. Say the least. I want to see how this one plays out because. Because what I have seen is, is. Is Charlie Kirk. I wasn't a huge fan of him. I wasn't a fan of him, but when you look at some of his interviews close to his death, he was actually criticizing Israel. Not saying there's a correlation. I'm just saying that it's interesting that somebody who's close to Charlie is then saying all of the stuff he was saying in the background while back in Israel.

[Host]

It's interesting. Yeah, I think that there's. On the right, there's definitely like the far extreme right. There's going to be the anti Semitism, the like Jewish people, they're, they're controlling the world thing. And then you also see a lot of anti Israel because now they're being seen as like controlling our foreign policy to a crazy extent. That kind of ties in with how they feel about Ukraine and everything going on over there. Which if you look at that position, that would be like a traditionally leftist, more leftist position I think. Except then you sprinkle in the like total isolationism, which I think that would be more extreme. Republican. Yeah, I don't know.

[Big D]

It's.

[Host]

It's, it's very conf. It's like a mosaic of takes.

[Big D]

Well, that's what, that's why I feel like this. Instead of worried about if there's 14 year old trans kids playing sports or.

[Host]

Swimming or whatever, who gives a.

[Big D]

Like the right and the left can actually unite on foreign policy saying let's get money out of funding stuff like this. This could actually be an awakening moment for America. But like, again, we always dredge up these like little culture war shits and like, who's going in whose bathroom? Shit like that. But I feel like it's gonna be a real coming together party.

[Host]

I agree. Yeah, let's stop sending our money and our troops overseas to die. Our money and weapons overseas to kill people. That would be a great, great start. And that. But then you have the conversation. Once you are saving those billions and billions of dollars, then what do you do with those billions of dollars? That's, that's where we'll have that. We'll have that. We'll kick that can down the road.

[Big D]

That's. To me, that's a good conversation to have.

[Host]

I agree.

[Big D]

Vote health care. I agree.

[Host]

All right, you guys want to get into this open AI murder thing?

[Big D]

Yeah. You said you were. Yo. You alluded to it last podcast and I hadn't been paying any attention. And since then I saw a couple things about how.

[Big T]

The.

[Big D]

I guess usability of AI is kind of plateauing. Yeah, because like what, what, like, other than like, like systems of like, you know, I don't know, like some kind of computing stuff where it can help out research wise.

[Host]

Stuff like that can help edit lines of code maybe. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that.

[Big D]

Like the video stuff and the photo, like, I think it's peaking and like I saw a few like talk segments on a couple of news programs about how it, it was like booming and it was like unfathomable how fast it was going and how, how much money was being invested into it. And then now investors and, and skeptics of AI, I mean, not skeptics. People who were for AI are kind of looking at it like, I mean, what's next though?

[Host]

Here's my take on it is that it's, it's fine and it usually works pretty good if you're trying to replace Google or if you want to know the answer to something. But it's not, it's not perfect and you get a lot of bad answers. Like even when we were playing that game where we rolled the 100 set of dice and tried to figure out who wore that jersey number.

[Big D]

I'll do that again at the end of the episode.

[Host]

Like one out of every, like five times it would screw it up. And that's, I mean that's pretty good to be able to, to bring up a number 80% of the time and can give you something to go off of. But if you screw something up 20% of the time. That's, that's not going to work in a business sense. Like, people are going to lose customers because, oh, we incorporated AI and we got a new AI chat bot. So instead of paying, instead of talking to somebody on the phone when you're asking about your electricity bill, why don't you just talk to our AI chat bot? And then they screw something up with your account, they give you the wrong advice, things get messed up, that becomes a problem. If it's business to business, you cost another company money that's using you as a vendor and then you lose that business. They tell people your company takes a hit, you lose money, you're fired. Like, you can't, you can't afford to make mistakes like that. If you're. And we're being told that AI is like ready for use in business right now because all the AI companies are out there trying to get to the market to start making some sort of return on, on their investment. And it's not, it's not panning out in a business case. And that's the kind of stuff that's going to trickle all the way back to the people that are investing in the AI. And then if you don't have those billions of dollars being pumped into an industry that is not making money, then it's just going to shrivel up and die eventually. So that's, that's kind of where I'm a little bit optimistic about it in that sense. And there's some other stuff that I, I read about in, in the case that we're going to talk about today. The, the employee of Chat GPT Suture Balaji and his death. To me, the investigation into his death, it's, it's interesting, but it's not as interesting in my opinion as all the stuff that was going on behind the scenes and the stuff that he was writing about and talking about in regards to Chat GPT before he died.

[Big D]

I'm excited, I'm excited, I'm excited that you're excited about it.

[Host]

I am, yeah. I went down like five different rabbit holes when it came to this. So this guy Balaji, I'm just going to call him by his last name because I've heard his first name pronounced a couple different ways. Balaji seems pretty uniform, so I'll refer to him as Baji. He was an open AI researcher and he died in November 2020, 24. There was a gunshot wound to the head. He was in his apartment in San Francisco. So he was an employee at OpenAI he, he worked there for four years and then he quit in August 2024. Now, before he was an employer employee there, he was an intern there. And a big part of his job, right off the bat, even as an intern, was developing the software that would then be used to create ChatGPT. So he helped to create bots that would, that would harvest all the data that they could find on the Internet and then sort all that data into different buckets that could then be used to power the neural network that they had built at Chat GPT or at OpenAI to be able to retrieve answers to various types of questions. It's, it's just like a lot of data. He's getting all this information from all across the Internet and finding, learning more about how like these large language models and neural networks are built. It's just crazy to me. Like they, they essentially, they swipe the entire Internet. They just sent bots out there, scraped everything from the Internet that was like publicly available, and then they, they put it into this neural network that then could be used almost like a super search engine. And so he had worked there for, I guess as an employee for four years. I think he worked there in total for, for six years. And then he resigned because he had some ethical concerns about what Open Air was doing. So OpenAI, they were started, intended to be a nonprofit. They saw the direction that the Internet was going and how it was going to be less reliant on search engines and the next wave of super fast software and neural networks were going. That's going to be the future of the Internet and maybe the future of business. And the possibilities are like unlimited for what you can do. If you just take the wealth of human knowledge that's been accumulated on the Internet and you put it all together and you have a program that can read it, sort it, and they say, like, think for itself. It's not thinking, it's a computer, but be able to process all that and spit out an answer that will help the end user. And in reality, yes, if there was something that, that could do that it would be. The possibilities are crazy. You saw the video of Sam Altman last week where he, somebody made a video of him getting arrested, robbing Walgreens or whatever. And they've released, Sora's, released a bunch of new tools recently. And the best I can see on these, the people who are using it are just using it to make like, what if, what if Peter Griffin was in Star Wars?

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Host]

How cool would that be?

[Big T]

The, the target one where he's stealing something like that one. You can tell his AI, but at the beginning of that video it's Altman in all these different locations, like talking. And I, at the beginning I was like, I don't know if this is real or AI.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

And then later it became clear that it was AI, but some of it like looks pretty real.

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I, I think that's like, that's what AI is doing is the companies that are creating these tools, the very public facing ones, like the video generation ones, it's like, hey, check it out. You can, you can put Goofy in the NFL and it looks like he's actually playing out there. Like they're very intentional. I think about marketing it as a fun way to put you and your friends in movies. You know, like weird shit like that. Like, hey, you guys want to do an interview where you're doing man on the street in Seattle, Washington. Okay, upload it. Make it a little bit more rainy. Cool. Would you like a rainbow? Here you go. How about a leprechaun? Like it's, it's very like, it's easy to, to enjoy for like a drive by user. But behind the scenes there's a lot of stuff that goes into it that if you don't take the time to think about it can, it can sneak up on it.

[Big D]

So real quick, what, I don't have any data on this. I haven't looked at it. But from your understanding, what is the people's.

[Host]

View on it currently?

[Big D]

Like, do people want this? Because I find it hard to believe that a rational human like, yes, continue doing this.

[Big T]

Everything I see on the Internet from just random people is like, this sucks. AI slop is like what everybody calls.

[Big D]

Yeah, a little pejorative. That's, that's what I see. And that's what's confusing the out of me is they're continuing to invest money and time and energy and focus into a venture that the majority of people I would venture to say are like, stop. This is not going to end well. This is not good for anybody.

[Host]

Yeah. Even when I was researching this and I was just looking up videos of people like breaking it down from a legal standpoint, 90% of the videos that, that I was pulling up were AI videos that were made by a company like, here's how to make millions of dollars using AI, you know, and it's just like the shittiest video that I've ever seen. With a terrible voice that doesn't tell me anything about, just like all it says is how great AI is. And then you got AI bots responding to it in the comments section.

[Big D]

Yes, that's what's.

[Host]

Where it's like, wow, this is a really fascinating use case into AI. I like to use my tools to do this. And I found that I get 40% more output on a second to second basis.

[Big D]

I love how the litmus test for how good AI is. Is Will Smith eating spaghetti? Random. That is.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

57% of respondents to a Pew Research poll rated the risks of AI as high or very high, while only 25% said the benefits are high or very high.

[Host]

Yeah. In fact, I was reading something the other day about people using AI as their lawyer, and I do see there's definitely some benefit to that if you can't afford a lawyer. There are people that have, like, uploaded all the court documents into whatever AI software that they're choosing to use and they upload like the judge's rulings on certain things. And like, what do I do now? I don't want to lose my house. And then they use AI to show like, okay, here are your different courses of action. I'll help you draft a legal document. Obviously it's not a substitute for a lawyer. And if you make a mistake and you submit something to the court using AI and it's screwed up, you're. And that's not going to end well for you. But there are people that. There was an article, I think it was on NBC News the other day, about people that have done that and they've been able to win court cases that they would have definitely lost or not had time to pursue otherwise. So there's like, there's some things that have been useful, but the direction that it's going is not good. It's not good for anyone. And they're just trying to distract you with a bunch of like, cute shit that you can make. Like, oh, I made a video of myself riding a stegosaurus on Jupiter. That's so cool.

[Big T]

This is the most startling thing from this Pew poll. I found only 17% of U.S. adults believe I will have a positive impact on the country in 20 years, compared to 56% of AI experts. Now, I don't know what qualifies as an AI expert, but shouldn't that number be dramatically higher? What shouldn't the AI experts be like, yeah, this is going to be amazing. It's only half.

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Host]

Ideally, you'd like that number to be in the 90s.

[Big T]

So if.

[Host]

Maybe even hot, maybe like very close to.

[Big T]

If that's 56, then you know it's bad.

[Host]

Yeah. So I was thinking about that too, because guys like Sam Altman, Elon Musk, the CEOs of these big AI companies, they know that there's severe risk that's involved in what they're doing. Like every day. They're like, if I fuck this up, maybe everyone's going to die or the world.

[Big T]

I don't think they're thinking like that. I think they view themselves as like, titans of industry.

[Host]

I think they view themselves as being the one and only true custodian of the most important power that we've ever seen. Like a God complex.

[Big T]

Sure.

[Host]

And so they also see it as being very lucrative if they can be the CEO of the company that wins the AI race. Right. Like, if you're.

[Big T]

Yes.

[Host]

If you're first and best to market on everything and you corner the market and you are establishing what AI is for the future of humanity, you see yourself as being like, basically a God. And I all. But I, I do think that they know that there's a possibility that if they don't put in the guardrails that things could go very, very badly. And I know that they know that they don't always put in all the right guardrails. But I also know that they have a lot of money coming in from investors that are expecting to see progress and expecting to see return on everything that they're investing into these guys. And with that enormous pressure, they're not necessarily thinking about the ethical implications all the time, as they're just thinking about daddy needs results.

[Big D]

Here's what's wild to me. When you ask these AI engineers, when you ask them like, do you guys know exactly how it works? They admit they're like, not exactly. Not exactly.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

And that to me is like insane. Like, and it, like. So I've done it before. I've asked AI, like, do humans know exactly how you work? And they'll be like, not, not exactly. No. What, like, that's, to me, creates an insane, like an obvious trap. I feel like humans have been writing about this for decades and I would be less worried if, if we were like, now we know what's going on. Well, we don't. We don't know how it processes 100%. We don't know the future of how it's going to process 100%. And we've given it access to the Internet. This is insane, though.

[Host]

Maybe this time Skynet will be our friend. Forgot about that.

[Big D]

Oh, you seen. You've seen transcendence. No, you haven't seen Transcendence?

[Host]

No, I was talking about Terminator.

[Big D]

I know, I know. She's on about. But it's a very similar. Transcendence is with Johnny Depp, and he uploads his consciousness to a system and then he gains access to the Internet and it starts. I don't want to spoil it for you because I really believe you'll love that movie. That is a fire movie, though.

[Host]

Okay, I'll watch it. That sounds good. I think that. You know what? I have yet to hear the idealistic vision of how great the world would be if AI was like, implemented to his fullest. The fullest extent. Let me play advocate, like I want to. I want to hear a CEO for an AI company explain to me, all right, 20 years from now, how is, how do you envision this being a great thing for everybody Here.

[Big D]

Here's how I would envision. I'm obviously not an AI CEO, but it goes along with my utopia for the world. If, if I, if this was the beginnings of this, I would say, okay, then it's going to be all worth all the memes and all this shit's going to be worth it. If, if we somehow can figure out how to create operating systems that take care of humans basic needs, we can have operating systems that take care of agriculture so people can eat, housing so people can live. We can develop systems that can detect diseases in a very fast and efficient way. To me, that would be the end goal. But I'm skeptical that the creators of this have the amount of empathy that I do. I think they're just trying to find ways to enhance businesses.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

And so to me, that would be the most rational way to do it. But I'm skeptical of these huge corporations being like, how can we help humanity the best.

[Host]

Right. All right, I agree. I agree 100%. Let's take one little slice of that. Let's talk about agriculture.

[Big D]

Right.

[Host]

Okay. Let's say that AI, we have the technology where they can plant all the corn. They know when to till the soil. They know the watering schedule, they know how to harvest it, they know how to clean the corn. Or if you want to buy it with the husk off, he'll take that off for you, it'll package it and it'll ship it. That seems like a really good business that they would have. Right. But what incentive would they have to, like, distribute that coin? And then you'd have a bunch of farmers that didn't do that work anymore. And then is a farmer's job now to, like, Does a farmer sit in their house on their laptop and they like debug the code every now and again? If something breaks down, let me go low, they just refresh their bank account.

[Big D]

In, in my utopia that I just read, we're creating a world in which your, your worth and your, your existence isn't tied to an occupation. So if, if, if all your basic needs are taken care of, if we can figure out a way to do all those things, have operating systems that can deliver people food and so you don't have to worry about going hungry. You can live in a, in a, in stable and safe housing. So you, you, you don't have to, to work and you get to actually enjoy your existence. You can do things if you want to, but you get to enjoy your existence. And I can hear the, the critiques of that already, but that, to me, that would be a utopia. It would be, it would be a place in which you don't have to give your life, your lives to your occupation.

[Host]

But then how are people able to afford.

[Big D]

There's no, you don't buy their food. If you have, if you have food being delivered to you in a system, if you have housing that gets, that gets built, you don't have to work, you don't have to. It's, it's there. Does that make sense?

[Host]

Yeah, but I know I, I don't know how we, it seems like that's a, that's the end result, but I don't see how we get there to that point without the world pretty much falling apart.

[Big D]

I'm not, I'm I'm just giving you my what, what I, what I would deem a successful AI takeover. That's why, how we get there. I mean, I mean, I don't know. I'm a podcaster.

[Host]

Yeah. I want to hear these people talk about like what, what's going to be so good about it. Because I know that there's a ton of risks and I know that this guy Balaji was aware of some of those risks. He was more focused on the IP side, on the intellectual property side, which is also very, very interesting to me at, at AI so or at OpenAI. So Open AI was founded. Sam Altman founded it with the goal of it being a non profit kind of open source AI. And Elon Musk was also involved in the founding of the company. They had a falling out. We don't really know exactly what happened between the two of them. My guess is some combination of different visions and also their giant egos wouldn't allow them to continue. So Elon was forced out to a certain extent, and he started his own AI company, which is xai. That probably had something to do with it. He just want to name it X. He's. He's been obsessed with that company name for forever. And then Sam Altman partnered with Microsoft, and instead of making it a nonprofit, now it's a corporate interest. So he partnered with Microsoft probably to get access to as much of their data centers and servers as possible. Probably had something to do with it because any AI company needs just like a shitload of servers and a shitload of water to cool the servers. And if you, like, read behind the scenes of how much water it takes to run an AI company, it's actually, it's. It's pretty disgusting. It's pretty gross. They're using just like all sorts of natural resources to make these machines run faster. So you can make a video of.

[Big D]

Of.

[Host]

Of Mickey Mouse playing the Star Spangled Banner, but it's. Yeah, I'm getting a little aside the point, but Lucy's the obvious choice for.

[Big T]

A true nicotine pouch connoisseurs. That's why they're official nicotine pouch partner at Barstool Sports. They go up to 12 milligrams in strength and have unique shape.

[Host]

That feels great.

[Big T]

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[Host]

No other pouch has that.

[Big T]

I promise you that. Gas station pouches get the job done. But once you've tried Lucy, you won't.

[Host]

Want anything else in your pocket.

[Big D]

I said the picture in the group chat of you riding a stegosaurus on Jupiter.

[Host]

Did you really? Have you seen the Football1? The NFL AI oh, of like, I.

[Big D]

Think Josh Allen throwing a touchdown to someone by him.

[Big T]

This isn't that realistic. The guy in this picture is like five, ten.

[Host]

Clearly not Josh.

[Big T]

No, of you.

[Big D]

Oh.

[Big T]

Way too tall.

[Host]

Let me take a look at this. Yeah, it's a bad picture. Stegosaurus are giant. They nailed the quads, though. I'll give them that. AI Maybe not so bad. Also, this isn't on Jupiter because Jupiter is clearly visible in the background. This is probably on one of its many moons. Maybe on Titan.

[Big D]

All right, I was.

[Host]

I was trying to make a. I was trying to make a. I'm looking.

[Big D]

Up I was trying to make a. Like, a screensaver one time.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

And I wanted, like, all the nine planets. And they gave me six planets. And I was like, you only gave me six planets to all the nine planets. It's okay. I see where I made the mistake. Here's another image. And it gave me six planets again. I'm like, yo, this is six planets again. He's like, ah, I see. You want me to generate another one with all nine planets. I said, yes, six planets again. I'm like, bro, what the. And I started like, what the is wrong with? Like, why can't you do this? And he's like. And he. And he detailed the reasons as to why he could. He's like, my inputs. When you say nine is too many. He's like, you want me to do six minutes? Like, fuck it, do six planets and spit out five. I'm like, this is.

[Host]

Here.

[Big D]

Arguing with the fucking machine.

[Big T]

It seems that they fixed it. But chat GPT used to be unable to tell you how many Rs were in the word strawberry. I think it would always say two.

[Host]

Oh, weird.

[Big T]

Yeah. But I just asked and it got it correct.

[Host]

That seems like an easy one that I would be able to get. So that. That football clip is so funny because it's. It's clearly fake. It was an incomplete pass, and I didn't see a single defensive back celebrating the fact that it just fell in the middle of nowhere. So that's how I knew it was not real. But if you go and you look at what was going on at OpenAI when Balaji left, he wrote a blog about it, and then he did an article with the New York Times as a whistleblower, saying, this is getting into some dangerous territory here, and ethically, I don't feel comfortable continuing to work for this company. So, as I mentioned, part of his job was to scrape the Internet for data and pretty much anything that's been written and put on the Internet and then feed that into OpenAI, which would then be used to fuel its large language model, which gives you everything that you ask. So if you ask it a question about how many. How many yards receiving does Diami Brown have this year? Somebody else has uploaded that information to the Internet, which then OpenAI or some other company has scraped and then put it in their search result that spits it back out to you. So it's stealing from other people's work that they've put on the Internet. And Balaji felt like that was a bad business model or an unethical business model that was taking advantage of creators that are out there, whether you're a writer that's published your work online or if you're like, if you're a writer that wrote a book and they downloaded it in a torrent file where they didn't pay for your book that you wrote, but they still used all the text from your work to put into its model, turns out that could be considered piracy. So there's, there's a lot of stuff that goes into it. And he wrote, he wrote a very interesting blog where he mathematically showed how he believes that this is actually harming creators and how it is against the law, the current laws that we have in regards to copyright. He showed how directly somebody's work can be essentially stolen by open AI and then passed off on its own to generate revenue for itself while actively harming the creator of that whatever, if you want to call it data, if you want to call it that, prose, if you want to call it it just whatever they created, if it's a video, it actively harms that person. And the New York Times is in an ongoing lawsuit right now against OpenAI. And their argument is that OpenAI draws from the New York Times and then will give that same information to somebody that looks it up on Chat GPT. It'll give you the information from the New York Times, maybe repackaged slightly, and that will lead to people canceling their New York Times subscriptions through a company that stole the original reporting and giving their money and their traffic now to OpenAI instead of to the New York Times. And they were able to reproduce some almost verbatim walls of text that you get from like a ChatGPT search result, almost verbatim as to what the original article was on the time written by journalists. So, and I also want to say in order to get that, to get like the very specific, like, basically plagiarism stuff, you have to like, go out of your way to induce Chat GPT to, to write essentially what the New York Times has already written. But regardless, if you ask it, like, what's, what's a topic that the New York Times has covered recently? Just give me an example of anything in the news. Government shutdown. If you're like, Chat GPT, can you explain to me what's going on in the government shutdown? It will draw from the New York Times as it's formulating your answer word by word. And a lot of the same information will be contained in there. And it will, like, if you ask it to, like, offer links, it can do that, but it will replace going to the New York Times and reading their original reporting where do it at no cost.

[Big D]

Where do fair use laws come into play when it comes to this?

[Host]

So that's a good question because he, that was one of the main points of, of his blog post. So he, he covered the different examples of fair use. So fair use is something where, if you, if you're, I think this is his example, if you're a literary critic, you can buy a book and you can read the book and you can use blocks of text from that book and then offer your criticism of what the author presented, the arguments that they made, and you can comment on it that way. And that's fair use. That's. You can't really copyright against fair use if it's criticism. But he said, I guess there are, there are four things that determine fair use. And he went line by line and tried to explain how chat, GPT, and OpenAI, they don't adhere to those four things for fair use. So factor number one would be the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes. So if it's educational, then that would be something that would be more likely to be fair use. If it's the nature of the copyrighted work is the second factor. So if it's a creative work that's protected by copyright, or a factual work that's mildly protected by copyright, so if it's creative, if you've put effort into putting a new thought out there or creating a new short story, then that is harder to claim that you're taking from that as fair use. If it's just merely, here's the, the date of birth, date of death of George Washington, cause of death, that's just like a historical fact. So that would be more inclined to be protected under fair use, because that's just, it's just fact that's put out there with, with very little added to it. The third is the amount and sustainability of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole. So if you take a second of a song, if you took a second of like under Pressure by David Bowie and you use just like a tiny one note from that, that would be more protected under fair use. Whereas if you took the entire bass riff and use that in a song, then it would be more likely for somebody to be like, hey, you use too much of that. In OpenAI's case, they're drawing the entire Internet in, so they're using all of everything that you produce, not just like one line of one sentence that you used. And yeah, there's it. He makes some good points. I'm not a lawyer, so I, I feel like that would be a better question for an intellectual property lawyer. But they're claim. The New York Times is claiming that Chat GPT is regurgitate like straight up regurgitating its content. Their entire archives have been used to, to train the neural network and they say that it causes harm because users won't need a subscription if they're getting it for free from Chat GPT. Chachi BT responded by saying that it's fair use because it's transformative. It's not specifically republishing everything. It's merely using the Times as a source and delivering the information like a different packaged way. But as, as a layman I don't see how that can possibly be true because Chat I. It feels like they're arguing that Chat GPT is a human that has like an expansive network of everything that's been written online and then our human reads all this and then creates something new out of it. And I don't think that we, I don't think that a court should rule that products can be people. That would that actually be very funny if products started to have the same right as people. But that seems like it just a. A shitty precedent to set. Right.

[Big D]

That was like one of the, one of the marketing campaigns for it. Remember like the prompts like the, the video AI's the, the pro.

[Host]

We are more than the prompts. Yeah. Like imagine if a Big Mac like you can't. You just libeled the Big Mac, you slandered the Big Mac and now we can sue you because you've caused irreparable harm to this, our beloved sandwich. So they're right now it's actually I think where they're at. They're in a discovery portion and Open AI is trying. Well, New York Times is arguing that they should have access to like the behind the scenes chat logs at Open AI and I think that is a fair request. Open AI is saying we don't think that you should have those now they're, it seems like they're in an argument over how, how much of their chat logs they can have access to. So I think like New York Times is asking for like 150 million either lines or messages and Chat GPT is arguing for like you should only get 10 and be happy with it. See, I do have.

[Big D]

This is the only way you can Convince me that the creators of these industries are ethical humans. Is, is with the transparency. If they're saying, hey, because this is such a, a public draw and we're drawing from, so we're drawing from artists, authors, statistics, any, everything that is the collective human knowledge, we're drawing from all of that. Because of that, I think we have the responsibility to be transparent about what it is that's going on in the, in the back and back in the back hallways of all of this stuff. That's the only way you can convince me that these is ethical. If they're fighting against it. Them.

[Host]

Yeah. Or I have a solution. The New York Times should say, how about this, how about we just ask Chat GPT, we give it access to all of your data and then we ask Chat GPT to provide the 15 million best examples that would be of good use for our case and they give those to us and then they'll give you the 15 million best examples that you could use to defend yourself and give it to you. And I feel like that would actually work out great for the New York Times. I feel like they, if they have like the hand picked best examples of all the times they might have violated fair use, that should probably be enough for a court to step in and be like, hey, you can't do this.

[Big D]

That would be a brilliant, that's a brilliant strategy for the lawyers. They say, yeah, turn their, turn their product against them.

[Host]

Yeah, let's see, let's see what happens. Because if you don't want your product turned against you, guess what? That product shouldn't be out there.

[Big D]

Hey, you kind of cooked with that one.

[Host]

Yeah, let's, hey, if there's any lawyers from the New York Times that listen to this podcast right now, I'm willing to donate my brain. I'll, I'll give you 10 minutes of my time per week to cook up, to cook up behind the scenes. And when you talk about like podcasters and, and video creators and things like that, there's, there will be AI podcasts if there aren't already, and there are, I would assume that those AI podcasts were trained by listening to like billions of hours of, of podcasts. And as a podcaster myself, like in this podcaster, as you guys, our words are being used to trained to train the AI systems that will make fake podcasts.

[Big T]

There was a thing on Spotify wrapped last year where you could listen to like a 5 minute fake podcast and they would talk about the music you listen to.

[Host]

That's crazy.

[Big T]

They were like, wow, he really loved Morgan Wallen this year. And it. But it sounded real, like it was crazy.

[Host]

Yeah, but I mean, if they're people actually made those podcasts, right? No, no, I'm saying, I'm saying like people have people make podcasts and then a company like OpenAI listens to those podcasts, takes other people's work and then it's a fucking computer program. It's not a human being, it's not a brain. It's being specifically directed to copy in all the best ways all the stuff that it's heard.

[Big T]

Yes.

[Host]

Like, that's the directive is like, yeah, we would like you to plagiarize this, but do it in a way that is like really like it'll generate the best outcome possible. Plagiarize this as good as you possibly can. Make the best plagiarism.

[Big D]

One of the most disheartening things I, I think is seeing like people I grew up on specifically talking about hip hop. Right. Like in my opinion, either they. So I'm talking about 50 Cent and timberland specifically. And I think even Alchemist now is going to make an AI album who's a producer. Either one or two things can be true in my opinion. Either you happen to like all new trends and you're very accepting of all new generations talent, or you're just whoring yourself out for relevancy. So when I look at somebody like 50 Cent, he's always using AI, he's always promoting AI. He's always. And, and it's. To me, it's like he, he. That's kind of always been his mo. Now looking back is like, it doesn't matter what it is. Like he stays relevant. That's how he stays relevant. And that's kind of his thing. Timbaland, that wasn't necessarily his track record through the music industry. He was kind of an innovator and using a specific sound that nobody like the Indian sound that was kind of new. Right. And the way he flipped his samples. But like, it's very disheartening seeing like OGs and that were titans of that industry kind of whore themselves out just. Just to stay relevant rather than having any kind of backbone of saying like, this is diluting and already diluted space.

[Host]

Mm. It's.

[Big D]

It's frustrating. Yeah.

[Host]

And if you're an artist, if you're making music, screenwriters, actors, like actors specifically. There was that one actress that. The fake actress that is like in the news. We talked about it briefly, but it was like, she's taken over Hollywood studios. Are claiming clamoring to use her in their next. Oh, by the way, there was actually an all time article that was written about this AI actress. I'm gonna see if I can't find.

[Big T]

It here what I keep seeing this for. This AI Actress. What does that mean? It's just what has it been in?

[Host]

It's, it's video. It's. I don't even know how to describe it. It is a fake woman that was developed by somebody that emulates positive characteristics of other actresses that have been in projects. And they can make her do whatever, they can make her say whatever. And now they've got a really good PR firm that's out there being like, hey, can you write about how every studio wants to use our fake actress and everything? And so now there's these articles coming out about how great this one fake actress is, but she's not real.

[Big D]

All these people to get beat up in some kind of way, punched in the face. These people that are promoting this. She's so stupid though.

[Host]

I'm trying to find.

[Big D]

You should have some kind of like loyalty to human emotion. Like some kind of like backbone to say dog, like, no, this is what we are as a species. I don't know, man. I'm not a nationalist. I'm not a person that really belongs to tribes like that or cares for banging up. But for the human species, I feel like you should have more of a backbone and saying, nah dawg. Like, you gotta keep that shit in house. This ain't it, man.

[Host]

All right, I found the article. This was on the Free Press and this is by a guy named Tyler Cohen. And if you look up Tyler Cohen, you will find what appears to be. I think he's like 65ish years old. He is a professor of economics at George Mason University.

[Big T]

So he's real.

[Host]

He's a real person.

[Big T]

I was going to ask if this guy was maybe.

[Host]

No, he's. This guy is all too real. And he has a long history of columns and, and writing weird articles. But he is a. He's a professor at George Mason University close to my hometown. And the article that he just put out on October 2nd, here's the headline. Tilly Norwood doesn't need a hairstylist. That's the name of the fake actress, by the way. Tilly Norwood doesn't need a hairstylist, has no regrettable tweets. And if you wish to see a Wait. And if you wish to see a virgin on screen, this is one of your better chances. That's because she's A.I. writes Tyler Cohen. All right, the virgin part.

[Big D]

Is Tyler Cohen real?

[Host]

He's a real guy and he like, I guess, fuck that guy.

[Big T]

What an odd sentence.

[Host]

Very odd sentence. Look up a picture of this Tyler Cohen. Cowan cow.

[Big D]

He's probably a virgin.

[Host]

He looks like a guy that would be obsessed with. With virginal women.

[Big D]

Wait, Brian Tyler Cohen?

[Host]

No, just Tyler. Oh, he doesn't look that c o.

[Big T]

W e odd to me.

[Host]

He looks like a guy that would like to see a virgin.

[Big T]

Looks like a professor I had in college, actually. Tyler, repeat, because I don't want to associate him with this guy.

[Host]

So this guy is just like. I think he's just horny. I think he's just horny for this AI generated picture of a woman. And also it's great because she's actually a virgin, unlike all these other actresses that try to pass them off, but you can tell they're not the real thing.

[Big T]

Doesn't he look like that guy?

[Host]

He does look like that guy.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Host]

So, yeah, I highly recommend reading that article again. Super creeped out by it, but yeah. So back to what we're talking about with like actresses and all that. It's all stuff that's already been produced by people that is now being fed into the data centers of a giant multi billion dollar. Like a company that's worth 10, 20 billion dollars being fed into their servers that then use it to pump out new, not new, but repurposed content from everything that it's gotten. And then they end up making ideally hundreds of billions of dollars from it. And no human beings besides the people that work for this company and their investors ultimately end up profiting from it. To me, that seems like that's pretty cut and dry. Like that's just stealing people's work.

[Big D]

Right? I would. I would have to. Yeah. That's why it would be interesting to see like a ruling on this would be okay. Start Open AI from scratch without access to the Internet. Is. Does. Is it the same entity?

[Host]

No, it's nothing. It is.

[Big T]

There'd be nothing to draw from.

[Big D]

That's my point.

[Host]

And so the argument you could make would be like, start open AI. But it's. But it can only use things that are in the public domain. Like if the author has expressly said, free to redistribute, redistribute, repurpose, whatever. If it's something that's like 100 years old that's in the public domain, shout out Winnie the Pooh just recently became public domain. See what? See what Open AI can do with all that. But if you're, if you're taking stuff that other people have done that they are attempting to monetize or have monetized, and then you're trying to just put them out of business while you make money off of it, instead, you can put all the different language in there and make it seem super high tech. It seems to me that it's pretty cut and dry, that that's the end result of what it's doing. And so I feel like I want to see how this lawsuit plays out, because it's not just the New York Times, by the way, and it's. It's a lot of different companies that have started lawsuits or joined lawsuits against the AI companies. And there's a lot of people out there that don't have legal representation that have a strong case, too.

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[Host]

But so if you look at. Back to the original case, Balaji, he talked to the New York Times about all this. He wrote that blog post that I mentioned, which is still up online, where he just really like cuts into all the ways that he believes that Open Air violates all the fair use doc, all the fair use criteria. You get like a better understanding for, for what he was so torn up about. And he said this is not a sustainable model for the Internet ecosystem as a whole. If you believe what I believe, you have to just leave the company. And he told the Associated Press that he would try to testify in the copyright infringement cases against OpenAI. So he's willing to speak against them in a court of law. He said it doesn't feel right to be training on people's data and then competing with them in the marketplace. I don't think you should be able to do that. I don't think you are able to do that legally. He told the Associated Press that he was disillusioned with OpenAI, especially with Sam Altman's being fired, then rehired. He said he was concerned about how the commercial products were going out. And he was concerned about their propensity for spouting false information, which they called hallucinations at the company, but they got things wrong. But he was super focused on the copyright issue because that was the thing that it was, quote, actually possible to do something about. It seems like the most actionable in a court of law to, like, stop it. There's a lot of weird stuff out there that is bad about AI and where it's at right now, but it's very tough to, like, prove in the court of law. But if you can prove that they're stealing your shit, you're losing money because of it. And he did that in his blog post. He showed, like, the Internet traffic to various websites before and after chat GPT came out and how much of that traffic was now going to chat GPT to get the same information. And then extrapolating from that, the money that was being lost, like, he. He did a pretty. A pretty good job. He's not a lawyer, but I think he did a good job of, like, laying out the. The basic parts of the case. So OpenAI, they denied copyright infringement. And so he was. He had left the company, he quit. He'd been very public about why he quit, and he had said that he was going to testify against OpenAI in court if he was asked. And then he died on November 26, 2024. It was a single gunshot wound to the head in his apartment in San Francisco. And his family is skeptical about the official report that came from the police. So investigating this, the police determined that it was a suicide, that he shot himself. And they went into his apartment after his mom told him, told the police, like, I can't get in touch with my son. He went on a hiking trip. I haven't heard from him since. He's not back. I'm concerned about where he's at. They. They broke into his apartment and they found him. He was. He was dead in the bathroom, I believe is where his body was. He had a blood alcohol content of 0.178 at the time of death, which is.

[Big D]

That's pretty lit.

[Big T]

Twice.

[Host]

Yeah. Twice the limit to drive, right? Yeah, it's. He was pretty drunk. 0.17. You're a. You're a drunk human being at that point, for sure.

[Big D]

He wasn't like slizzard, but he was feeling good.

[Host]

Yeah, I've been. I've been at or above that limit a few times.

[Big T]

Are you. Are you measuring?

[Host]

No, I'm just. I know what I. Well, one time I did take The.

[Big T]

The cop thing.

[Host]

I did the cop sobriety test thing where they brought me into the sheriff's office in Austin, and then they poured out drinks for me, and then they had me do the sobriety test for the deputies in training so they could figure out how to spot a drunk guy. I think by the end of it, I was at, like, a. I was pretty close to that. I think it was like 0.1 5.16, something like that.

[Big T]

I. I support our. Our men and women in law enforcement out there, and I hope they catch every drunk driver.

[Big D]

It.

[Big T]

Those things aren't, like, the easiest things to do sober.

[Host]

Some of them aren't.

[Big T]

Yeah, they're like, say the Alphabet backwards. I mean, I could probably get there, but I've never done that.

[Big D]

Let me see. Yeah, go.

[Big T]

Z, Y, X, W, U, V, T.

[Host]

No, I think you screw that up.

[Big T]

V, U, T, C. Yep. S. Not. See the letter S. R, Q, P, O, N, M, L, K, J, I, H, G, F, D, C, B, A.

[Host]

You forgot E. Yes, I did.

[Big T]

See, that's not easy.

[Host]

It's not.

[Big D]

I. I would. I would listen to that and be like, he's sober as. Because if I'm faded, I'm not getting close to that.

[Big T]

Yeah, I'm sure it's probably worse, but.

[Host]

I was really good at all the time. The i1. The i1 where they look to see if your eyes, like, flutter.

[Big T]

I thought it was if your head.

[Host]

Moves, well, they look for that too. And they also look for. Do you follow the instructions? Do you remember what I told. And sometimes they're complicated. It's like, okay, go down to the end of this line. Stop. Turn around on your left foot. Walk back, then turn around on your right foot. Stand still. Don't move. There's, like, a lot of stuff that you have to remember, but I was. I was very good at all the. All the, like, mechanical and body stuff. And then my eyes were Just give me away every single time. You can't fake the eyes.

[Big D]

I bought a breathalyzer a while back, and this could just be my tolerance level, but I. I drank it till I got until 0.8, and I felt like I was not even really buzzed.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah, I don't.

[Big D]

I don't know. I don't know what that says about me or the test in general, but I was. I was like. I mean, I definitely know I have drank, but I'm not. I couldn't. I wasn't. I didn't feel really anything.

[Big T]

I mean, I would prefer the limit to drive to Be lower than, you know, drunk.

[Big D]

No, I'm not advocating for drunk driving. I'm just saying, for me, yeah, I was like, I don't feel like this. How did they arrive at this? I'm sure they have their reasons. I. Have you ever seen the video of when people. When they first banned drunk driving? Yeah. You're taking away my American right.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Was fucking hilarious.

[Host]

Can't have a beer. What the hell is this? When I hit a 0.08, I definitely. I felt like I would be like, I would not drive if I was at that level. So I felt good afterwards. I was like, okay. I feel like I got a pretty good indicator of, like, when. How much is too much, because, like, when they. When they made me blow and I was at a 0.08 at that point, I was like, there's no chance I would. I would get into a car right now, really? But, yeah, I. I felt like I. I could feel that line.

[Big T]

How many drinks was that for you?

[Host]

I don't remember, because it was liquor, and they were measuring out in, like, a graduated cylinder or beaker or something like that. And so then they just poured. I think I drank two drinks, but I think that there were very, very strong drinks with how much liquor they added. So, yeah, Balaji was at a 0.178, pretty drunk at the time of his death. They found GHB in his system, which is a party drug. If you consume it in high amounts, it can, like, paralyze you. It can make you blackout sometimes. I've never tried ghb. Don't really intend to, but I've also heard that, like, low doses, it's used pretty frequently. Like, if you're going out to a club or just having a good time. Can be a mood enhancer, but it's also a depressant. His parents were confused because he had not shown or demonstrated any signs of, like, suicidal ideation. He was obviously under a lot of stress because of how he quit his job and how he was identified as a. Or self identified as a whistleblower, feeling a lot of pressure and. But he hadn't, like, told any friends that he was thinking about doing something. He hadn't mentioned that he was depressed to anybody, and there was no note that he left behind. And obviously, some very, very powerful people were out there that disagreed with his very public stances about what they were doing. And so that made a lot of people start to question what actually happened. His mom has been very vocal about the fact that she doesn't believe that he committed suicide. She said it's a hundred billion dollar industry that be turned upside down by his testimony. It could be a group of people involved, a group of companies. It could be a complete nexus. And she's not wrong that it is like the most highly leveraged business in terms of future speculation in the world right now is AI. And if he had any information that would just like ruin those companies, that would be, there'd be a lot of people that would be very, very upset at him. I don't know that he had any direct information that would be a smoking gun that would ruin those companies. I think his testimony would have been pretty powerful. I think he made a lot of good points. I don't think he had any like, like a flash drive or anything that had texts being like, hey, okay, we're gonna copy this, just don't worry about it, just do it. I don't care. But they did. The, the people that have researched into his death have said that his apartment looked very messy, almost like it was ransacked. But we'll get to that in a second. So after his death, they investigated it, they determined that it was a suicide and that they kind of closed the, the case on that. But since his mom was very adamant about her son not being suicidal, she hired a private investigator to look into it. So the first time that they did the autopsy, they found that the, the gunshot went through his forehead and then went like straight into the back of his head. I don't know if they said if the bullet exit or not, but it was like a straight on forehead shot which could be done very easily if you have a, a handgun. And the handgun that they found was, he did buy it like a year earlier I think. So it was registered to him. So they, they ruled it to be a suicide within 40 minutes minutes of examining. And then the medical report said yeah, he was, it was a gunshot wound to the forehead, pretty cut and dry. And then they hired us a private investigator to look into it. And they had a second analysis of the autopsy done, which then determined that actually wasn't straight ahead, it was more like towards the top of his head. And that the bullet actually didn't hit his brain, it went like down into his neck. And then he just kind of bled out on the floor for a while. The secondary investigator said that they found evidence of blood in multiple rooms in the house, indicating that there was a struggle. They said that they found a abrasion or a head wound on the side of his head, which would mean that maybe he was hit by someone or something and then shot from above, like execution style. So I did, I did more research into that and I found out that I don't think that their private investigator actually ever examined the, the apartment or, or anything like that. They just looked at the pictures.

[Big T]

Yeah, they said he only saw photos.

[Host]

So that makes me be like, I, I don't know how much stock to put into that. Then there were some other things too that kind of don't add up a little bit. Like the alleged ransacking the apartment. Some people say that the security cameras in the apartment were tampered with. But from what I saw, there was like, he was on like the fourth floor and his apartment was dead bolted from the inside. And you couldn't get in or out of the windows. The windows only opened like 4 inches. And then some people say that the closed circuit television cameras, the security cams, like some of them weren't working. Some of them, they claim, like they lost some of the footage from those days, but I, I don't know how you would deadbolt from the outside if that's what actually happened. So this all came to the, like, more of a public discourse when Tucker interviewed Sam Altman. And it's a very funny interview if you just watch it because it's Tucker trying to act like he's not accusing Sam Altman of murder, but being like, hey, this guy.

[Big T]

It's worth looking into.

[Host]

Yeah, hey, this guy. So that's weird.

[Big T]

Well, he, no, he does say straight up at the beginning, he's like, you have this guy who was murdered and Sam Altman kind of looks at him like, well, he committed suicide. Suicide. And he's like, no, he was murdered.

[Host]

Yeah, so. So the guy's mom reached out to Tucker and asked him to look into it. And then he did some reading on it and decided that he was going to press Sam Altman when they did their interview.

[Big T]

Well, she went on his show first, I think.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

And so he talked to her for an hour.

[Host]

Yeah. And then I, I think she, she reached out to him too. Right. That's what, that's what Tucker told Sam was that like. Yeah, she just like cold reached out to me.

[Big T]

I'm not sure, but yeah, that makes sense.

[Host]

So, yeah, she doesn't believe that her son committed suicide. She thinks that he was murdered. And he just straight up asked Sam Haltman, do you think, do you think he committed suicide? And then watching Sam Altman process, like Tucker Carlson's actually asking me if I, if I murdered this guy. And Then he's also sitting over there acting like he's not asking me if I murdered this guy. Say, I'm not accusing you. I'm not accusing. It's just. It's a little strange, wouldn't you say? Wouldn't you agree? Sam was saying that he thought it was suspicious, but then there was. There was a second inquiry into it that they did, that the police did, and they came to the same conclusion that it was suicide. But Sam said that it did sound very suspicious. But ultimately, after they did the second report, he believed that it was. It was a suicide. And then Carlson said he was definitely murdered, and he doesn't understand how the authorities can dismiss it as a suicide. And then Sam said, I haven't done too many interviews where I've been accused of like. And then Carlson said, oh, I'm not accusing you at all. And it's just very funny watching them go back and forth. To me, this is how I read it when I, When I saw that interview. I don't think that Sam Altman was acting like a guy who's guilty of murder. I think he was acting like a guy who knows that the guy who died was right about a lot of stuff that his company was doing. And so he's, like, nervous that, like this, if we're asking about this guy, then there's all this other stuff that I'm hoping will just go away. That was my read into it, at least.

[Big D]

Shill.

[Host]

Yeah, I have no idea. I have no idea whether or not. I mean, just from what I've read about, seems like it'd be. It'd be tough to deadbolt a door.

[Big T]

From the outside on an individual basis. It always seems like, you know, when something like this happens, like, oh, they probably weren't murdered. There was just some interesting. You know, but these whistleblowers do seem to die, like, a little more often than you would expect.

[Host]

Yeah. The Boeing people, Boeing.

[Big T]

It just. I can't even think of specific examples, but it just seems to happen not often, but more often than you would expect.

[Host]

It does. Yeah. It's a dangerous occupation to be a whistleblower.

[Big T]

Yeah. But then on a case by case basis, you're like, well, I'm sure they probably, probably weren't murdered.

[Host]

People also point to the fact. Excuse me. That he ordered, he ordered, like, delivery.

[Big T]

I heard Tucker say that. I didn't see that anywhere else I've heard that.

[Host]

I, I didn't, I didn't read, like, line by line, the police report, but I did hear that from A few different sources that he, he ordered food for delivery. But I mean, if you. That does lead you to believe that it's not the action of somebody who is like about to in their life immediately.

[Big T]

Right.

[Host]

But another such thing was like on.

[Big D]

His computer, he was, he was looking at total gray matter, volume and white matter, which is like when you're looking at areas of the brain and stuff like that. So to me, that was kind of sus. Like you off him and then go, let's look at where to shoot myself in the head. You know, it's kind of. I don't know.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

A little sussed. I don't know.

[Host]

I will say the people that, that are at that point in their lives, they do a lot of sometimes illogical things in their final days and final hours that you might have trouble explaining. So it's not like it's. That's not ironclad evidence, the fact that he ordered food before he did it. But it is just like, it's interesting because it doesn't seem like something that you would do if you were in that circumstance. And then Musk has gotten involved too. So Elon Musk has weighed in on it. He posted that he was murdered. And that to me, he also has a very public feud going with Sam Altman because they're kind of wrestling each other for control over what could be the most important technology ever.

[Big D]

So what was his, what was his involvement in Open AI in the beginning?

[Host]

Elon's.

[Big T]

Yep.

[Host]

I actually do need to look into that more. I know that he was a. Maybe even a co founder of the company, but I don't know how he was like all the stuff that went on behind the scenes when he Left.

[Big T]

Co founded OpenAI in 2015, but left the board in 2018, leading to a contentious relationship where he has since sued OpenAI for allegedly deviating from its nonprofit mission. Made a large rejected bid to acquire the company.

[Host]

Yeah. So he tried to acquire it and I think he got pissed off because they hired some of his people. It's like a big pissing contest. So he does not like Sam Altman at all. And so if there's like a whiff of a theory that he's a murderer, you know, that Elon's going to jump on and be like, yep, yep, that guy did it. That's a murder. Lock Sam up. So his mom is. Balaji's mom has been working to try to get more information out there. They did commission that second autopsy and that's where they found the trajectory was atypical for a suicide and that they had the injury on the side of his head. They all. She also said that her son was not Sam's friend, even though Sam told Tucker that they were friends. His mom said that they only crossed past a few times. They had never spoken to each other. And the next move for her, I think, is to hire a specialist to create a 3D view of his apartment for a crime scene reconstruction. Which it sounds. I mean, it might be helpful, but if you're just going off like crime scene photographs, there's gonna be stuff that's not included. I don't know if that's gonna sway the case one way or another. My guess is probably not.

[Big D]

Gotta let Mama Bear be Mama Bear, though.

[Host]

Yeah, that's the thing. It's like she's. She's going through it big time because her, her son. That's a traumatic experience for her. So obviously most parents would try to. They would be inclined to think that their, their child didn't do that to themselves. So she. I don't. I don't know if her efforts are going to like, have an impact on. If there's like a federal investigation into it with the FBI. I think that might be the next step that she's. She's trying to aim for right now. But there's no, there's been no, like, official investigatory movement on it since that second report closed. So now she's doing like a public relations, like, media raise awareness of it, try to get a lot of people who are also curious and want more answers. So, yeah, the. There have been protests at OpenAI that. From people who are demanding answers, from people who are upset with what Balaji brought to light. I would consider myself more in that camp where it's like, I. I don't know what happened in terms of this murder or this, this death, but I would like shout out to all the people that are protesting Open AI because I think I agree with them.

[Big D]

Yeah, I mean it.

[Host]

Now, the problem. I was thinking about this too. Let's say. Let's say the courts ruled and agreed with us and said they're stealing people's shit. We can't have these nerds in charge of humanity because it is important to remember that too, and to remind them that they're nerds and that they have no business running the ship because they're a bunch of dorks. If the courts agreed with us on that and closed up OpenAI Grok ask perplexity. I'm trying to think of the other ones that are out there, but the American ones, that's what we know about. If they closed those and said, okay, you can't do all this anymore, aren't they just going to be like companies in China?

[Big T]

Yeah, I mean, it's too late. Like, I don't really think there's anything we can do.

[Host]

You don't think so? I'm up. I, I'm open.

[Big T]

I don't know how you legislate this.

[Host]

Out of existence so you can make it illegal to just like scrape the Internet and then repurpose that for your own monetary gain.

[Big D]

It already is. It is illegal. It's just we haven't updated our laws to include artificial intelligence.

[Host]

Yeah, that's what they're arguing right now is that this is, this is like a, a use case for. Just look at bringing open the right law into the 21st century.

[Big D]

Just look at it like as a YouTuber. Watch how fast their videos would get demonetized.

[Host]

Yeah, that's true. I guess the other law, you could, you could say that it's illegal for one company to possess or to, to run machines that use X amount of fresh. You put limits on how much fresh water a company can use to cool off their servers. Or like, hey, it's against the law to use this much electricity, like if you're running a data center.

[Big D]

Well, we have a, a right leaning Congress, Senate and Supreme Court. Good luck with that one.

[Host]

But I mean. Okay, so how, how much enriched uranium do you have to have before the government says, hey, you can't have that much enriched uranium?

[Big D]

I don't know.

[Host]

Do you know the limit?

[Big D]

I don't know. The amount is. Are you allowed to have any?

[Host]

I don't know. It might be any.

[Big D]

I don't think you're allowed to have any. I could be wrong about that though.

[Host]

Are you allowed to. My guess is probably.

[Big D]

You know, this is crazy, but put you on a list.

[Host]

I know. Oh, and well, this is according to AI in the United States, there's no limit on the total amount of enriched uranium that can be privately owned. But possession requires a license.

[Big D]

Huh.

[Host]

So I guess you have to take certain step. I mean you can. Yeah. You can regulate it.

[Big D]

Wait, wait a minute. Well, what about foreign governments? They're not allowed to. Right?

[Host]

I think you can. As long as you're not on like a sanctions list, then you might, you might be allowed to have it. But then producing a nuclear bomb, then you have to deal with the international. Was it IAEA or whatever. Iae one of those valence companies One of those vows bodies.

[Sponsor Voice]

So I said.

[Big D]

Okay. I asked if foreign governments were allowed to have industry and AI over review said, oops, something went wrong. There it goes. Yes, Too close to the truth. Yes, foreign governments are allowed to possess enriched uranium, particularly for peaceful purposes like fueling nuclear power plants. But this right is often balanced with international scrutiny and specific agreements such as NTP prevent. It's a diversion for weapons. Countries like Brazil and Germany operate enrichment facilities for their own nuclear programs.

[Host]

You can't, you can't like just produce all the smog. You can't produce all the smog that you want and just pump it into the air.

[Big D]

So it says. However, the extent and nature of enrichment are highly politicized for some nations like Iran, which face intense international pressure to limit or dismantle enrichment capabilities due to proliferation concerns. So like if we think you with the smoke, you ain't allowed to do it.

[Host]

Right? But also in the United States, like we, we regulate stuff all the time.

[Big D]

Don't tread on me.

[Host]

Why can't we regulate this? I don't think that you can argue free speech because again you'd be, then you'd be arguing that your piece of salt, that your product is a person. Products don't have free speech.

[Big D]

No, I'm on your side. I mean I, I just be playing Dev.

[Host]

Tony the Tiger just can't go out there and say whatever he wants.

[Big D]

Who?

[Host]

Tony the Tiger? I'm just saying like if, if they tried to make the argument that people should be allowed to use chat GPT to write things for them and to make funny videos of them with their friends. You're regulating on my free speech now because I can't generate a video in five seconds of Aryan playing football on Mars. But that's not regulating free speech. That's. You're, you're just regulating a company and their product.

[Big D]

I don't disagree. I think it's a dangerous precedent to set. I mean, I think, I think ultimately because of the whole Covid thing, all these social media platform owners are like, anything goes and they're less likely to regulate. But they should absolutely ban AI videos and AI photos.

[Host]

So it's interesting you say that because that new, the SORA thing, that's the one that just came out, there's the video generation social media platform. Yeah, yeah. So it's a social media platform that's tied into the video generation thing. And I'm pretty sure they did that because if they're a social media company, they're regulated much, much differently than if they're not. If they're just a media company. If you're a social media company, that means that you cannot be held liable for the words or the content that's generated by your users.

[Big D]

They made it just a. Just to say.

[Host]

Yeah. Is it section 230, the one that they, like, always talk about repealing?

[Big D]

Yeah, brother. I don't know that off the back of my.

[Host]

I think I, I mean, they've been talking about this for, like, 15 years of whether or not, like, Twitter should be held liable for the speech of the people that. That use it.

[Big D]

I love that you asked if it was section 230. Like, no, man. Section 231.5 B.

[Host]

No, but they, they talk about it a lot. No, I haven't read. I haven't read the penal code. I'm not a penal code guy or a regulatory code guy. But that's, that's why social media companies there, they operate under a different set of rules. But, yeah, Sora is like, hey, we're a social media company too, so just chill. And right now, I think sora's new user agreement, or the way that it's set up, you have to. You have to opt out of having your intellectual property be used on its platforms. So, okay, like, if you create the Simpsons, if you own the IP to the Simpsons, you'd have to then go to Sora and be like, hey, I want you to. People shouldn't be allowed to use Bart, Lisa, Marge, Mag. They can use Homer, but you have to, like, specify based on, like, character. You're not allowed to use these people.

[Big D]

People.

[Host]

And they can't. You can't have people make images apart, but you have to be, like, very specific about what you do. And honestly, I've. I've gotten to the point. I've. I've scanned my face so many times on my iPhone, I've. I put on that. The. The Apple vision thing. Aryan. That can make, like, a 3D model of your face, and then that's what it uses and zoom calls and chats. And so they've got, they got my face already. And my, My face has been on the Internet enough to the point where I think people could make a deep fake of me if they wanted to. There's only this. This technology is too powerful for humans to have. With the exception of Brace. He should be the only one, and he should be the custodian of it. And I, I can't wait to see what he does with it, because I think. I think Brace might think along the same lines as we do about how these, these nerds are going to ruin everything.

[Big D]

Yeah, Revenge. Another movie like Revenge of the Nerds or some.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, this is it.

[Big D]

Your time to shine, fellas.

[Host]

Yeah, like when, when Spotify puts out fake bands that have been trained on your listening habits. Like, how is that not penalty, Death penalty? How is that not just stealing from all the bands that it, it used to make that song? It's one thing for a human to, to listen to a lot of music and be inspired by different artists and find genres of music that they like and want to create or add to or modify. It's a different thing for a piece of software that somebody wrote to just like steal all your. And make it sound polished and then deliver it to you because they know that you're going to like it and then they'll make money off it. I, maybe I'm old fashioned, but I feel like that should be a cut and dry case for the, for the court system to figure out.

[Big D]

Yeah, this does feel like we're, you know, protesting against the print and press. But yeah, fuck it, I'll die on this hill. I, I think this is dog shit. And I think.

[Host]

I think it's just.

[Big D]

Gonna be the beginning of the end for us. I see no benefit. I see no benefit. Like, like, so there was a lot of. For instance, when, when hip hop first got started, like a snapper league was a, was a big deal and like artists felt like their, their art was getting stolen. But to me, to me, it was more indicative of like, you, you helped birth an idea and a different idea. This doesn't feel like that to me. And it could be just my generation right of, of this, but it just feels, this just feels like pure theft, intellectual property theft.

[Host]

First of all, I just want to say that was adorable.

[Mackenzie]

That was so cute.

[Host]

Your daughter just came up and gave you a kiss on the cheek while daddy was doing, while daddy was doing this podcast talking about intellectual.

[Big D]

Yeah, she comes walking in and gives me a kiss.

[Mackenzie]

She's so precious.

[Big D]

My little baby.

[Host]

And secondly, there's, there's something that's been like just a big red flag to me recently. Every time they roll out a new, like, video generation tool or new AI tool, you hear the people from the companies talk about how they're democratizing the space of the creator. We're democratizing content. We're making it accessible to every. Everyone can be a Hollywood filmmaker. You don't have to be a millionaire that lives in Hollywood that is a big production head Honcho, you don't have to be a Tinseltown so. And so to make your own movies. We're putting that power in your hands. Like the fact that they're. That's how they're marketing it tells me they're. They're. They're just full of man.

[Big D]

So much bush. Like, go build STEM programs in. In.

[Host]

In.

[Big D]

In impoverished communities. Go, go, go. Really give kids a chance. Go, go, go create film classes if that's what you really want to do. You don't want to do that.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

The. Out of here.

[Host]

The fake populism where it's like, we're. We're giving it back to the people. We're all here, here at xai. We're all about the people. We want. We want you to be better.

[Big D]

Notice reminds me of. Do you remember Syndrome from the Incredibles?

[Host]

I never saw that movie.

[Big D]

You never saw this great movie. So Syndrome for the Incredibles was a kid who was a fan of Mr. Incredible. Mr. Incredibles. He had superpowers. He was strong as fuck. Very strong, right? And he would follow him around. He was super smart little kid, right? Super smart little nerd kid. He would follow him around and he would. He would. He would try to do everything that Mr. Incredible does. He's like, hey, this is too dangerous. He's like, I'm not affiliated with you. And he creates all these little gadgets. And he said, go back to your mom. So years later, Mr. Incredible is back doing missions, and Syndrome becomes a villain, right? And his whole plan is because he felt like he was rejected by what they call the supers, like all the people with super. Super powers and super and super talents. He said, I'm gonna. He, like. He had all these gadgets and gizmos. He was super smart. To make him appear like he was a super. He could fly. He had all these. All this tech, all this stuff. Batman, basically. But so he would. His whole plan was that. Even says it. He says. He says. He said, I'm gonna sell all my vengeance to everybody so that everybody could be super. And when everybody's super, no one is. This is. This is Syndrome. This is exactly what that is. Dog nerds, man.

[Big T]

I didn't know you were locked in on the Incredibles like that.

[Big D]

What, Bro? If it's one thing. So before I could, I used to be able to smoke weed a lot. And I can't do it anymore. It gives me anxiety. I've given it up. But before, one of my favorite things to do in the world ever was to sit Down. This was when flat screen TVs like, first came out. Right. Sit down in front of a big flat screen tv, smoke and watch autumn Pixar movies. Meet the Robinson Ratatouille. Like all that. Oh, it's one of my. You get lost in this little world, dog. It's just the most amazing thing to do.

[Big T]

Love that.

[Big D]

Yes.

[Big T]

Incredibles. One of the rare sequels. That's good.

[Big D]

Yeah. And you know what? I'm kind of pissed. I want a third and I want to see what little check check ends up being.

[Big T]

Didn't they tease at the end of the second one? I forget exactly what happens, but it was like a third.

[Big D]

He. The hardest one. He has like all the best superpowers ever rolled into one. Well, Jack, Jack. I wonder what he's doing right now.

[Big T]

Yeah, no capes.

[Big D]

No capes. And not mold. I just sent a picture in the chat of me playing football on Mars.

[Host]

Love that. I. I just read an article that says that the hundreds of billions of dollars companies are investing in AI now account for 40% of US GDP growth this year.

[Big T]

The economy's a scam. It's all a money laundering scam.

[Host]

AI companies have accounted for 80% of the gains in US stocks so far in 2025.

[Big T]

Everything is fake.

[Host]

That. Yeah, there's a bubble.

[Big T]

Oh, yes, there's a bubble.

[Big D]

Big D. Expound.

[Big T]

What do you mean expound on? I just mean that every metric we use to measure the economy is not indicative of anything real.

[Big D]

Okay. How. How would you. How would you measure the health of an economy?

[Big T]

I don't. I don't have the answers to that right away, but I think when you look at things like, oh, the GDP is growing by 80% and it's all just people moving money around in AI companies like that doesn't have anything to do with the majority of Americans.

[Big D]

Nice. I agree.

[Host]

So I'm looking at this right now. The companies that are responsible for. It's OpenAI. The big dogs. Oracle, it's Michigan football, AMD.

[Big T]

Haven't heard of that.

[Host]

They do like semiconductors and they're like an essential company to AI platforms like Nvidia is the big dog.

[Big D]

Really?

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Host]

Microsoft, which is part. Which has a significant stake in OpenAI XAI figure, AI Mistral, Core Weave, Nebula. They all sound like companies that are going to destroy the world, don't they? They do a terrible job.

[Big T]

Yeah. Why, why wouldn't one of these companies just name it, like Happy Time or something? It's always. Yeah, it has to end in a vowel and it has to sound very futuristic.

[Host]

Futuristic, but also sinister.

[Big T]

I actually think I've been developing this theory for a while now. Every company now has to end in a vowel. I think it's a rule.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Think of a company that's come to exist in the last 10 years, and.

[Host]

A lot of times they'll. They might end in a vowel, but they'll also like, remove one of the vowels from their name. Yeah, it's like you read it, but it's missing one thing.

[Big T]

Right.

[Host]

I stayed up. I stayed up too late last night reading about all this stuff. And then I just. I convinced myself I was like, Peter Thiel's behind everything.

[Mackenzie]

Like, he is.

[Host]

He does have all the data.

[Mackenzie]

He has everything.

[Host]

That's okay. That's my new. Okay. All right. All the videos of you, like, being able to. To turn your ex boyfriend into a frog because he dumped you, those are like. That's the distraction to make you be like, wow, AI is so cool.

[Sponsor Voice]

Look.

[Host]

Look what I can do. I can make this guy look like a toad. And then Peter Thiel's actually just behind the scenes, like in his shed screwing a hellfire missile onto a drone and then sitting up into the sky to stop some pre crime.

[Mackenzie]

He's so scary.

[Host]

He's obsessed with the Antichrist.

[Mackenzie]

Exactly. Tim Dillon had a funny bit about that where he was like, you gotta kind of be like. And I'm obsessed with like tennis. Like, why do you gotta go all the way to the Antichrist about it?

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Like, you already are the scary guy that's surveilling me.

[Host]

Yeah. Here's the problem is the guys that are in charge of all these companies, they're either, they're upset. Like the Antichrist is a little. That's a little on the nose. Most of them are obsessed with like the apocalypse or like the destruction of planet Earth and how they're the ones that can only. They only can save or they. They are the chosen ones to help humanity reach that next level, and they have the power to save the world in their hands.

[Mackenzie]

They're like an apostle almost.

[Host]

Yeah, that's very. That's very concerning to me. All right, anybody got any good news? I do think that there's. There is a lot of good news that was wrapped up in this episode. Like, I. I do think that they might be limited in some of the stuff that they're trying to do. I don't. I. I remain skeptical that they will get ever get to this grand vision that they have where they run these AI platforms that Control everything. I think that there's way too much stuff that has to happen to get there. And I don't think they're gonna be able to do it because they're nerds.

[Big D]

I think it's on us. So I look at it like. So I, I have TMZ and Shade Room and sites like that and gossip blog that is blocked on my phone because if there is no. And I know I'm. I'm not gonna stop it, but if there is no demand for, like that there won't be a business for it. And so it's. It's on us. And this, it's also why I'm a pessimist. But if, if we collectively get together instead of just saying is slop and just stop, like, partaking in it, then it will stop.

[Host]

But I thought you were going to say we need like a, like a shade room, but for The Silicon Valley AI CEOs that report on, on their beefs, like, it's rap beef.

[Big D]

No, no, no, no. That's toxic.

[Host]

You don't wish that upon these guys.

[Big D]

I wish worse.

[Host]

Yeah, but it would. It would. It would really. With them.

[Big D]

It could. But it could also get like, really weird, like sycophantic fans to be even more worshiping of them. Because if you. I mean, people worship celebrities like that. That's why those things exist.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Question about the future of them, of the CEOs moving forward. This isn't necessarily good news, but you know how people say, well, I guess it's like confirmed, but that Peter thiel was behind J.D. vance, like his political career.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

That's what one makes me nervous about. J.D. vance being the, the heir apparent to MAGA is Peter Thiel. We've talked about that on the show before. But also if he can. If Peter Thiel can do that with J.D. vance and you know, now he's the Vice President. That's what makes me nervous because it all gets wrapped up into politics. And then the people who are in, you know, Congress, Senate, whatever it happens to be the presidency, are directly tied to these people. Similarly to almost the Israel thing, where it's like no one in the government, like Trump is so pro Israel because his ties to Israel, like, it all gets. It all gets tied together.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

If Peter Thiel or Sam Altman. I don't know Sam Altman's involvement with politics as much, but I know Peter Thiel is. If they get on their side and they get paid by them, why would they ever.

[Host]

This is America.

[Big T]

I mean, I have some Bad news for you about every other politician.

[Mackenzie]

I know, I know, I know.

[Host]

But it's not AI. It's. It's oil.

[Mackenzie]

Right. That's what I'm saying. But it's like if we. If you guys were. How you guys were saying, like, maybe the existence of AI can be legalized in some way, but it's like if Peter Thiel just funded J.D. vance's whole political career, now he's the vice president. And, And. And maybe, you know, that's the problem, is that the next president. I would hope not.

[Host]

But, you know, whatever the problem is, like, a lot of the. The leaders of these companies or the people who fund these companies that are investors in these companies, they also write pretty big checks.

[Mackenzie]

Right. And that might be. This might be like such a beginner take out of me to be like, oh, no, I'm nervous. Like, AI is wrapped up in politics. It 100% already is. But, like, that's because then it turns to like, how do you stop something from the outside like us, like, common people?

[Big T]

How are.

[Host]

How are companies given more of a say in shaping policy that affects them than humans are?

[Mackenzie]

Right. Like, you and I and the people listening to this can't stop AI because AI is now part of the government.

[Host]

I mean, Palantir and the companies that. That are leading this charge are also helping to write the laws about how to regulate AI.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Big D]

Sound like Bernie Sanders, Maddie.

[Host]

That's his whole.

[Big D]

That's his platform, getting big money and lobbyists out of Congress.

[Host]

Again, I don't think that should be a right or left thing. I feel like this is, like, it's very. It's plainly obvious what's happening, that this is, like, an imminent problem for a lot of people. Like, not people on the right, not people on the left. Like, if you have a job in America, this could be a big, big problem for you.

[Big D]

That's why Bernie was able to win over a lot of Trump supporters.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Because he was speaking to the common man. Yeah. It's a great point.

[Mackenzie]

It's. And it feels like such a beginner take to, like, say that. But it's just like when you. When you hear about it and then when you hear about the Palantir, Peter Thiel stuff where it's like, Palantir has a government contract and Palantir will start surveilling every single person in America and all of this stuff, it feels like it's kind of already done and dusted of. We've written our own will or written our own obituary at this Point. It's like, it's there. It's. You can't do anything about it. Peter Thiel has more money than you and everyone else in the country. And so unfortunately, like, money talks and they're gonna do whatever they want and you. And no one wins. And then the environment goes even more to. Because all of the data centers are like, squeezing out our water.

[Host]

Yeah, but I think you missed the part earlier when I said that you could put like, Peter Griffin in Star Wars.

[Mackenzie]

So. Yeah, and we just got Arian Foster playing football on Mars, which is like.

[Big D]

So special and so pretty cool though, right?

[Host]

He was a. I saw a picture. I saw a video of Peter Griffin. He was a Jedi.

[Mackenzie]

Right. It's sort of.

[Host]

You're underestimating how cool that is.

[Mackenzie]

Exactly.

[Host]

And how much money that's going to add to the, to the economy.

[Mackenzie]

Right. Like, I don't use CHAT GPT purely for the fact that I know if I do use it, I'm gonna love it and I'll turn into brain mush.

[Big D]

More than principle, I think there's, I think there's a responsible way to use it. I really do. If you have to understand its limits and you have to understand you can't stop your research at ChatGPT if you are going to use it. You have to ask for sources and then go check those sources. That's how you critically think.

[Mackenzie]

But see, when you say that, I'm like, okay, that's like Google. Like, I. Like that's what I'm saying. Like, what's the point? That almost just feels like I'm adding an extra step in. But I know if I start using ChatGPT, like, I, I think it's gonna make everything a lot easier for me. And convenience is not the point of life. And it's. You need to use your brain still. I know if I, if I tool.

[Big D]

It'S just like, I'm not, I'm not necessarily for it, but I understand it could. Can have utility. I just think that given the state of our society, I don't think it's responsible to have like.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Big D]

Because it's, it's.

[Mackenzie]

We're already dumb as fuck.

[Big D]

Yeah, it's going to create a whole bunch of slop, but you can use it to be productive. But I would argue that the majority of where society is right now, it's not going.

[Host]

That's not gonna be the case. I mean, I can, I can honestly think of good, Very good uses for it. Very good uses. Like where it's at. Right. Like If. In a medical sense.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, totally.

[Host]

In a doctor's office, if a physician, like, sees your symptoms and it's like, I have no. I've never seen anything like this before. And that doctor is not House, and he's not able to just like, you know, figure out diagnosis out of his ass.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Host]

Then you, like, put it into the system and it gives you some likely outcome. And then the doctor's like, okay, I will then test this person for maybe some of these things. Maybe it's right. And if it's right, then we have a course of treatment. Like, that's. That's a very useful thing that you could use it for.

[Mackenzie]

Right. I don't need it to make a grocery list or I don't need it to make me. What would I look like, you know, if I was a Barbie doll or whatever it is. Yeah, that's the stuff that I think. Yeah, that's useful. That's also not being used in, like, a mass sense, obviously. If it's like the medical community where right now every single. Like most people, I just saw something before we started recording where ChatGPT just hit 800 million users. That's different than a very niche use of it in a very productive way. That's what scares me more. I just feel like if I start using, my brain will stop being required.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

And that's what scares me.

[Host]

Yeah. And anytime you hear the, like, leadership of these companies start talking about how copyright laws in America are fucked up and need to be changed. This is exactly why. This is exactly why they've. They've, like, kind of given that, like, Elon made. I think he had a few posts a couple months ago where he was just like out of nowhere complaining about copyright laws. And it's like, yeah, dude, we. We know. We know why you're doing that.

[Sponsor Voice]

Yeah, it's.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Awfully quiet. Kanye West.

[Host]

Where's.

[Big D]

Where's Kanye west in all this? What is he doing?

[Host]

I could see him, actually. I don't know if he would lean heavily into it or heavily.

[Big D]

He already. He already has his last album. Remember I had that whole thing.

[Host]

It was right around the.

[Big D]

Right. Yeah. I kept. I was singing those same three songs. Found out later they were written by a. I had a very emotional response to enjoying it. Yeah. Yeah, he's. He's. He's another one that's always going to himself out for attention. Hey, speaking of. Not speaking of which. Total pivot, actually, which is the exact opposite. Where are we at with our investment that we made a long Time ago.

[Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my Robin Hood.

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Host]

Let's.

[Big D]

Let's just.

[Big T]

Let's Qualcomm.

[Big D]

We had, like three. We had a few of them.

[Mackenzie]

I'm on it all the time, actually. We have no American Airlines and Expedia right now.

[Maddie]

We ended up changing it, I think. But we did originally buy Energy.

[Big T]

Yeah, we changed it like stadium.

[Maddie]

NRG stadium.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Yes. Then we. It was. Something about the airlines was happening. So then we went into the aviation stuff, right?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

So I also.

[Big D]

We originally put a thousand in, right?

[Mackenzie]

Yes, we originally put a thousand in. And then I also started investing on my own. Not like of your guys's money, like, of my own money. So I have to go in. So our. I learned what an ETF is, so I got an.

[Host]

Oh.

[Mackenzie]

So, okay. For our stuff for American airlines, we have 30.47 shares of that, and that is currently up 1.76% today.

[Big T]

Today.

[Mackenzie]

So do you want me to do all time?

[Host]

Yeah, see, not all time, but since.

[Mackenzie]

We invested, we are overall down $31.

[Big D]

Okay.

[Host]

That's not terrible.

[Mackenzie]

We were down a lot a couple months ago. Like, I. My lowest point. So we got. We started doing this of, like, December of last year, like, Christmas Eve. My lowest point was April 8th. And out of the thousand dollars, we were at 711, and we're currently at about. From my other investment, about 960. All right.

[Big D]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

But Expedia, since we bought it, is down and American is up. I have a feeling, though, as of right in this very moment, due to the government shutdown, those two might dip.

[Host]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

Because I keep seeing all of the TSA stuff, but I don't know how that really correlates.

[Host]

Yeah. Yeah. Consider me to be living in my privileged little bubble, but every time there's a government shutdown, I expect, like, way more things to be shut down.

[Mackenzie]

Down.

[Big T]

It's.

[Host]

It's a lot if you work, like, how many federal employees are actually like, not at work right now?

[Mackenzie]

About 30,000.

[Host]

That's okay. That's a good amount.

[Mackenzie]

But the way. So when it shut down last week, I looked into it, because the last shut time it shut down, I was in college. So I really wasn't as, you know, intrigued by it. So I looked up, like, what happens when it. Or, like, what shuts down. When a government shuts down, government shutdown happens. And a lot of it functions almost like Covid, where there are, like, essential workers.

[Host]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

And then non essential workers. Those are the ones that have unfortunately gotten furloughed during this period. But, like, the TSA is pretty. TSA is pretty much what would hit people immediately if you're not a government employee.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

Because obviously, less tha TSA agents. Oh, o' Hare is apparently, like, an actual hellhole right now. Is it because of that? But TSA and then a couple federal agencies like the fda, hhs, a couple of those get partially shut down. But again, there are still things that are happening. Like, I just did my. I do my tax extensions, so my taxes are due next week, and I just paid my taxes, and I got a notification from the IRS that it was like, your. What would I call it, My tax return, like, the money I have to pay may be impacted due to the government shutdown. So, like, stuff like that. But I don't think a lot of it is immediate. Again, unless you're a federal worker.

[Host]

Okay.

[Mackenzie]

But I do think the airports are not looking good. Rn.

[Host]

I will let you know on Friday.

[Mackenzie]

Where are you going?

[Host]

Going to Baton Rouge.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

I flew last weekend, too. It was actually. It was fine. Flying last weekend.

[Maddie]

Yeah, I flew last weekend.

[Mackenzie]

I flew last week in. Fine.

[Big D]

What you.

[Big T]

What you going for?

[Host]

Baton Rouge?

[Big D]

Yep.

[Host]

Band's playing a show. Pup Punk is playing a show at Fred's in Baton Rouge on Friday night.

[Big D]

I might pull up, dog.

[Host]

You won't. You won't slide.

[Big T]

How far is that?

[Big D]

I pull up on y' all all the time. It's you that won't pull up, brother. Don't pull my card.

[Host]

Would you want to perform a song with us?

[Big D]

I would not.

[Host]

Okay. Would you like to have some drinks with us?

[Big D]

I wouldn't. I would love that.

[Host]

Okay. All right. That would be awesome. If you were there four hours before we get back to macrodosing, it's brought to you by game time. Because it's college football season, we've got a great slate on Saturday. This slate, it's one of those that. That got better as the year went on.

[Big T]

Definitely.

[Host]

You look at it at the start of the year, you might be like, ah, it's a pretty good slate. And then you get to October, and you're like, this is. This is exactly what I need. Thank you, universe, universe and all the stars for aligning to make this a great weekend of college football. And if you're at a tailgate and you decide that you want to grab tickets at the last minute, that's where game time comes in. The Game time app gives the advantage back to fans. It's the hack for. For unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in just a Few taps. It's incredibly easy to use. And the game time guarantee means you can Trust you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price. Plus fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. And we've got all the college football action this weekend. Big T. Are we looking at South Carolina at LSU in Baton Rouge this weekend? I'm going to be down there on Friday.

[Big T]

Yep. As you mentioned, you'll be there. I can get you in to Death Valley, the real one, now that they be Clemson.

[Host]

Yep.

[Big T]

Although not much of an accomplishment anymore. Whatever. I can get you into Death Valley for LSU, South Carolina for 39 on game time.

[Host]

That's a hell of a deal.

[Big T]

Yeah. Practically stealing.

[Host]

I'm thinking it's legal. It's legal.

[Big D]

They've.

[Host]

Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Host]

If stealing was legal, that that's what game time would be. You can get into that game for a very low price. And it's making me think maybe I should stick around Baton Rouge for the game, because Death Valley is a great place to go watch a football game, check it out and use game Time. If you're trying to get into any other college football games this weekend, it's so easy to use, they have a guarantee at game time means that you can trust that you're getting 100% authentic ticket tickets on time and at the best price. And the fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. Take the guesswork out of buying college football tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code MACRO. Get 20 bucks off your first purchase terms apply again, create an account, redeem code macro. Get 20 bucks off. Swipe, tap ticket. Go download the Game time app today.

[Big D]

Hey, yo, Rolling Stone just ranked the greatest hip hop songs of the 21st century, and you will never guess the number one.

[Host]

Okay.

[Big T]

All right. Well, basing it on what they gave Taylor Swift's new album, I'm gonna guess it's.

[Big D]

Should I just go top 10?

[Big T]

Something ridiculous.

[Big D]

I'll do top 20.

[Big T]

I just want to see if I can guess any that are in the top 10.

[Big D]

Okay, go ahead.

[Big T]

But are they mostly all like 2000 to 2008?

[Big D]

No, they range. It's a pretty even range, I would say, and a pretty wide span.

[Big T]

And these are songs, not albums.

[Big D]

Songs.

[Host]

Is Sicko mode in there?

[Big D]

Sicko mode is number 24. Okay, good guess. One that we talked about beat Sickle mode and is at 23.

[Host]

I'm sorry, Ms. Jackson.

[Big D]

Nope. We just talked about it last time I was on pot.

[Big T]

That's got to be 90s, right?

[Host]

No, I think. I think Ms. Jackson might be 2000s.

[Big D]

It was.

[Host]

Oh, back that ass up. Nope, that was 90s. That was 90s.

[Big D]

Was Annie up? Oh, Annie Sicklemore.

[Host]

That was 22, 23. That's awesome.

[Big D]

Yeah, that's really dope. Ready for the number 10? Yeah. Number 10 is in the club 50.

[Host]

Okay.

[Big D]

Number 9. It's wild to me, but Bees in the Trap. Nicki Minaj.

[Host]

All right.

[Big T]

Eighth grade. That song went crazy.

[Big D]

Exo Tour, Life, Lil Uzi Vert, Number seven, Bad and Bougie Migos. I. I feel like that belongs in the top 10. I feel like in the club and Bad and Bougie belong to top 10. Lose yourself by Eminem. I agree. That also belongs to Top Tip. Internationals players anthem with ugk. Absolutely belongs in the top 10. 99 problems. Jay Z don't know what falls if it be in the top 10, but it's a good song. You know Bob Outkast?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Don't know. That's my favorite cut from them.

[Host]

It's. It's not. It's a good song. It's iconic. It's a little experimental.

[Big D]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Number two. Agree goes in top 10. All right. By Kendrick Lamar. And the number one hip hop song of the 21st century.

[Host]

Wait, is it also Kendrick?

[Big D]

No, no, no, it's not Kendrick.

[Host]

Okay.

[Big D]

That's number 12. That's number 12.

[Host]

I. I thought for a second they were gonna put not like us as number one.

[Big D]

That's number 12. But I mean, it. It was one of the biggest matches of my lifetime.

[Big T]

Tell me what year this song is from.

[Big D]

I want to say off the top of my head. I'm gonna Google it. Off the top of my head. Early 2000, late 90s. And it was released.

[Big T]

Well, obviously it's not 90s.

[Big D]

Oh, yeah. Early 2000s.

[Big T]

You're right.

[Big D]

My bad.

[Host]

Oh, man, it's too early. I was gonna.

[Big T]

So is it like Jay Z?

[Host]

I was gonna say Macklemore.

[Big T]

Sure.

[Big D]

I'm gonna send some cash only in my pocket.

[Host]

No, I was talking about the one where when he was in first grade, he thought he was gay.

[Big D]

The hit smash.

[Host]

I don't know. Hang on. He said early to early 2000s. Right.

[Big D]

2001.

[Host]

Okay.

[Big T]

Too early for Lil Wayne.

[Host]

This is right in my. In my prime.

[Big D]

Too early for known Lil Wayne.

[Big T]

Right.

[Big D]

Mixtape Wheezy was Argu. Not everybody. Mixtape Wheezy was the best.

[Big T]

Anything that would be number one.

[Host]

It's too early for 2001. That is too early for any. Kanye.

[Big D]

Yes.

[Host]

Who was.

[Big T]

They wouldn't go Outcast again.

[Host]

I don't think that they would, because I feel like you can't have.

[Big T]

They wouldn't go one and three. I don't think four.

[Host]

I don't know what other outcast song they would put there. The equipment. I was too early for that. Ms. Jackson would be the one. I would think so. I'm gonna say no. Outcast.

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Host]

No Kanye. Luda. It's not Luda. They don't have Luda. They wouldn't do Luda to us.

[Big D]

No, they wouldn't do Luda to us.

[Host]

They wouldn't do. They wouldn't do anything off word of mouth. Would that.

[Big T]

Welcome to Atlanta by Jermaine Dupree. Final answer.

[Big D]

That's what you're going with?

[Big T]

That's a joke.

[Big D]

But it's a good song.

[Host]

It's a good song.

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Host]

I'm gonna go. I don't know. Just tell me.

[Big D]

Get your freak on by Missy Elliott.

[Host]

Shut up. Really?

[Big D]

The number one song of the 21st century.

[Big T]

I think my instant analysis was correct.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big D]

I tell you what. There would be no Missy slander. She is a goddess. I love Missy Elliott. Don't know that she has the number one song of in hip hop the last century, but I love Missy Elliott pioneer. Love her to death.

[Host]

She is. I wouldn't call that my number one most favorite hip hop song of the last 25 years, but good for her. I thought her super bowl halftime performance is pretty good.

[Big D]

It's amazing. She's a goat.

[Host]

Should we say a quick prayer for another goat?

[Big T]

Who's that?

[Big D]

Don't do it.

[Big T]

Oh, she's fine.

[Host]

She's fine.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Big D]

Yes.

[Host]

Oh, thank you.

[Big D]

Came out with a video that said, I'm fine. Do I look sick? She was all dressed up and looking all good and shit.

[Host]

Okay.

[Big D]

And then her sister apologized because she was just like, yo, I didn't mean like, she was down. I just meant. You know what I'm saying? She was sick.

[Big T]

She was like, I believe in the power of prayer, and I 100% agree, but you can post that stuff on Facebook when it's. You know, when you're a normie, when it's about Dolly Parton, you can't be vague. Booking about, we need prayers.

[Host]

I agree. When I saw we need prayers, I. I was down bad. I was like, you can't take Dolly from us. Dolly's too important to this nation. So Dolly, I know you're listening to the show. Hope you're feeling better.

[Big D]

Beloved.

[Host]

Don't go anywhere.

[Sponsor Voice]

Dolly.

[Big T]

Does she have the highest approval rating of anyone in America?

[Host]

I think she might. Yeah.

[Big D]

I'd be up there.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

I mean, if I ever met someone who said a cross word about Dolly.

[Host]

Parton, I consider slapping somebody.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Host]

If they, like, called Dolly Parton a crossword. My face.

[Big T]

Because that shows that you're just, You're.

[Big D]

It's a you thing.

[Big T]

Impure spiritually.

[Host]

Yeah, agreed.

[Big T]

Like, that's a pretty. That's a pretty telltale sign you're a shitty person.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

[Big D]

I don't disagree.

[Host]

If Dolly lived 3,000 years ago, there would have been a. A religion that was named after. After she passed away. They would have.

[Big T]

Probably the best person ever from the state of Tennessee. I don't know how you want to.

[Host]

Quantify that, but Davy Crockett.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Host]

Pretty cool.

[Big T]

So if you're doing a Mount Rushmore at Tennessee, it would be those two.

[Host]

Yo, Gotti.

[Big T]

Okay.

[Big D]

Who shy. I'm just throwing names on the board.

[Big T]

I'm trying to.

[Host]

Obviously, I was going to say Elvis, but he's not from Tennessee. Graceland is in Tennessee, but he's from Memphis. Yeah, he's from Mississippi.

[Big T]

Yeah, that's true. Peyton. Obviously not from Tennessee.

[Big D]

Morgan Freeman Dog.

[Big T]

Is he not from Mississippi.

[Big D]

Also from Tennessee. Fam.

[Big T]

What city?

[Big D]

I think. Hold on.

[Big T]

I thought he was from Mississippi.

[Big D]

Yeah, he from Memphis.

[Big T]

Same thing.

[Big D]

Okay.

[Big T]

Biggest city in Mississippi.

[Big D]

He got to be. He got to be up there.

[Host]

Where's B.B. king from? I want to say maybe Mississippi too, or maybe Alabama.

[Big D]

I don't know.

[Maddie]

It says Bear Claire. Mississippi.

[Host]

Okay, Bear Claire, like B, E, A.

[Maddie]

R. B, E, R. So maybe.

[Host]

Oh, that sounds like a Wisconsin ass name.

[Big D]

Oh, your girl from Tennessee. Miley Cyrus.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, good point. Yep, yep.

[Maddie]

Aretha Franklin godmother.

[Mackenzie]

Right?

[Big D]

Yeah.

[Host]

Miley's a birthright citizen of Tennessee.

[Big T]

Yeah. You know who else is from. Isn't Glorilla. Who was I about to say? Yes, that is who I was gonna say. I just totally lost my train of thought. Rick Blair, you were talking about Miley Cyrus. Oh, Oprah is from Tennessee, right?

[Host]

Is she?

[Big D]

Oh, no, she's not from Tennessee.

[Big T]

I think so.

[Big D]

I don't think so.

[Big T]

I. I think so.

[Big D]

I don't think so.

[Big T]

Hold, please.

[Big D]

Hold him.

[Maddie]

It says Mississippi.

[Host]

A lot of, A lot of transplants from Mississippi.

[Big T]

Yeah, Mississippi. She went to Tennessee State.

[Host]

It's the. Yeah, it's where. It's like Chicago. If you graduate From Big Ten school. You just go there. Everyone, Mississippi, they get out of college, they're like, we're moving to the big city. Memphis.

[Big T]

Okay. Winfrey was sent to live with the man she calls her father, Vernon Winfrey, a barber in Nashville, and landed a job. Radio. A job in radio while still in high school. Okay. And then she went to Tennessee State. So she lived in Nashville for a while. All right, so we've got three, right?

[Big D]

Who's it? Who do you got?

[Big T]

Dolly, Davy Crockett. And who was the other one? We said? Morgan Freeman.

[Host]

Freeman.

[Big D]

I would say. Oh, Justin Timberlake.

[Big T]

I don't hate that now. I do. I do have a problem with Justin Timberlake in that he. Well, in the 90s, he was wearing Tennessee football. He was wearing a Peyton Manning jersey all over the place. He was number one University of Tennessee guy. And then now he's a Memphis fan.

[Host]

That's a problem.

[Big T]

Yeah.

[Host]

What about Jack Daniels?

[Big T]

I'm going to ask a stupid question.

[Big D]

Is that a real guy?

[Big T]

Is that a real guy?

[Host]

Yeah. Look up where he's got to be from Tennessee, right?

[Big T]

I mean, Lynchburg is obviously where the.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Big T]

Yes. Jasper Newton. Jack Daniel was a real person. The founder of the famous Jack Daniels Tennessee Whiskey. Born in 1848 in Tennessee. Establish his distillery in 1866, which became the first registered distillery in the United States.

[Big D]

He's my racist.

[Big T]

I'm out.

[Host]

I choose him. I. You know what? Separate the art from the artist. He. He provided a lot of valuable things.

[Big D]

The fair point.

[Host]

Yeah, I did. I did a tour of that one time, the distillery there.

[Big T]

In a dry county.

[Host]

Dry county. You can't drink Jack Daniels in the place that it's made. Pretty wild.

[Big T]

Yeah, correct.

[Host]

Because I think there aren't enough people that live in the county to overturn the law that made it dry. I think that's how it works. At least that's how they presented it on the tour. Honorable fifth nominee, my Uncle Derwood. I would put him on that list, too. Shout out, Uncle Derwood. All right. Well, that was macrodosing for the week. I hope you guys enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. It's a weird topic to talk about with AI, but I. Again, the more. The more I see the way the winds are going, the more I think that it's not going. It might not be as bad of a problem as.

[Big D]

As it could be low Y2K of this generation.

[Host]

Yeah. But it's not. It is a problem. Y2K, they. They fix that. I feel like the prospect of how bad AI could Get will be limited by the jackasses that run it and the flagrant laws that they're breaking. I hope. I hope that's what happens. And also the fact that companies are losing money trying to implement their technology that's not ready for prime time yet.

[Big D]

I don't know if y' all saw Jane Goodall died. Rest in peace. I don't talk about it. I was. I missed the show. She had a hilarious video that. That they released after her death. Did you see that?

[Host]

I didn't see the video.

[Big D]

Now.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Big D]

He said she wanted to put people on a spaceship and send them off to go do stupid. That they want to do. A very paraphrase. She said it more eloquent, but she wanted to put Elon Musk and Donald Trump on a spaceship to leave.

[Host]

Just send them into outer space.

[Maddie]

Just get out of here. Yeah, pretty much.

[Host]

She was a goat. Kind of a crazy person, but she did it like she had some wild things she wanted to accomplish with her life. And I'd say she did all those. And we learned a lot from old Jane. Thank you, Jane.

[Big D]

Yes, sir. R.P. jane Goodall. We glad Dolly Parton doing well. And yeah. Go Brewers.

[Host]

There you go. And also go Commanders against the Bears on Monday night. I'm very excited about that.

[Big D]

Don't hit the thing. It's playoff time, man. Stop it.

[Mackenzie]

Joe Flacco and the Browns.

[Host]

This is a. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts about Joe Flacco playing for another AFC north team?

[Maddie]

No.

[Mackenzie]

I'm shocked. We got a fifth round pick out of it.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, you gave up a six, got a fifth back. You. You moved up in the draft.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, I guess. No, I'll miss him. I know he wasn't that good anymore, but I liked his vibes.

[Host]

I'm concerned about how he's going to look behind that line.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, he might.

[Host]

He doesn't really.

[Maddie]

He might.

[Mackenzie]

We might see the end of Joe Flag.

[Host]

Joe's not really a mover anymore.

[Mackenzie]

Neither are the offensive linemen that are.

[Big D]

Going to help him.

[Host]

Joe kind of. You give him the ball and he can throw it, but taking steps is not really his.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. They traded out one of your favorite Joes for another favorite Joe.

[Host]

Okay, well, they got two Joes now.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, but one of your Joes is down.

[Host]

Joe's Burrow and Flacco.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah. No, I'm nervous for his health behind the Bengals offensive line. Not that ours was, like, good, but. Yeah, No, I. I'm. Whatever. Dylan Gabriel. Whatever. Sure.

[Host]

I don't think he's that bad.

[Mackenzie]

No, but we are, so we'll see.

[Host]

We see you guys next week. Go, Brewers. You're. I tricked you. You just let me root for the brewers again.

[Big D]

Fuck you. Pft.

[Host]

Yep. Yep. All right.

[Maddie]

Go Yankees.

[Host]

Oh, yeah. Congrats to Aaron Judge, I guess. Love you guys.

[Big D]

Sam.