The Crypto Boom, Bust, and Backlash (ft. Ben Mckenzie & Dave Miller) | April 16, 2026

Summary

Macrodosing: "The Crypto Boom, Bust, and Backlash" (w/ Ben McKenzie & Dave Miller)

April 16, 2026 | Barstool Sports

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Episode Overview

This episode of Macrodosing dives deep into the world of cryptocurrency with guest Ben McKenzie—actor, author, and outspoken crypto skeptic—and his friend and collaborator Dave Miller. The hosts, alongside Ben and Dave, unpack the wild rise (and fall) of crypto, the culture and psychology underlying its evangelists, and the far-reaching risks and regulatory conundrums facing the industry. The conversation centers around Ben’s new documentary and book, Everyone is Lying to You for Money, an exploration of crypto fraud, shady actors, and misplaced public faith.

The pod also features lively banter between normal news-of-the-week topics such as trending AI pivots by companies, bizarre internet personalities, and global sports stories, but the core of the episode is the in-depth interview on crypto’s dark side.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Crypto Documentary: Genesis & Purpose

• Origin Story: Ben describes how the project began with Dave pressing him to buy Bitcoin during the pandemic.
  • Ben, with an economics background, was skeptical: "Dave came to me...and was like, ‘You gotta buy bitcoin, dude.’ And I was like, ‘What is it?’" (86:55)
  • Dave’s previous 'bad tip' led Ben to question everything before taking financial advice.
• Film/Book Objective: Expose the manipulations, psychology, and mechanical flaws driving the crypto market, presenting these complexities in an accessible, often comedic style.

2. Crypto’s Dark Underbelly: Crime, Speculation, and Marketing

• Ben’s Core Thesis: Much of crypto is sustained by speculation and self-dealing—not legitimate use—enabling a hotbed for illicit activities:
  • “There's also crime. There's a lot of crime. It's everything from money laundering, tax evasion, sanctions evasion, child sexual abuse material…” (93:56)
  • Reference to $154 billion estimated as criminal activity facilitated by crypto in a single year.
• Ponzi Scheme Dynamics: Early adopters profit at the expense of newcomers; loyalty deepens for those who lose, as the sunk cost fallacy kicks in.
  • "The more they lose, the more they have to believe." (101:15)
• Marketing Over Substance: Crypto’s success is as much about storytelling and attention—the "attention economy"—as product fundamentals.
  • “All crypto is really just convincing you to give your real money over in exchange for this thing they're calling a currency that isn't really a currency.” (116:01)

3. The “Tech” Angle: Blockchain, Public-Key Encryption & Myth vs. Reality

• Blockchain is explained as a "bad tech" with real scalability issues compared to basic credit card tech.
  • “Bitcoin can only process five to seven transactions a second. Visa can do 24,000.” (106:45)
• The narrative of blockchain as revolutionary is (in Ben’s eyes) a smokescreen; public-key encryption is useful, blockchain—rarely.
• Stablecoins present unique systemic risks, acting (functionally) as "counterfeit dollars" if they become too embedded in global finance.

4. Fraud Culture: SBF, Celebrity Endorsement, and Behavioral Red Flags

• Interview w/ Sam Bankman-Fried: Ben got rare pre-indictment access via Twitter DM—SBF was "happy to talk" because he still saw himself as innocent (91:38).
  • “He thinks he's innocent. And so he was like, happy to talk to me. I don't think it went that well for him, but I guess I'll let the, the audience be the judge.” (92:03)
• Ponzi Parallels: When pressed, industry insiders admitted ~10% of the money in crypto is 'real'; most liquidity is speculation layered on speculation.
• NFTs & Greater Fool Theory: The podcast revels in the absurdity of NFTs and “ape” culture.
  • “So really, an NFT is like a receipt...A receipt for a link to a jpeg.” (120:27)
  • “The price is really determined by greater fools. You're buying it, hoping to sell it to a greater fool than yourself.” (120:27)
• Marketing Stunts: The segment about Jimmy Fallon & Paris Hilton hawking NFTs is called “the stupidest conversation to ever happen on television.” (121:39)

5. The Policy Solution: Regulation and the Genius Act

• Ben argues the answer is not outlawing crypto but treating it as a security, forcing proper disclosures and anti-fraud provisions.
  • “If I was king for a day, I would just classify all of the speculative cryptocurrencies...as securities. And then they have to follow securities laws...” (127:27)
• Legislative landscape is (in his view) bad: the “Genius Act” opens the door to private corporate (meta) money, and lobbying is massive.
• Systemic risk to everyone: If stablecoins become deeply entwined with the banking system, an ordinary economic correction could lead to a global bailout scenario.
  • "That could be like a recipe for disaster." (129:41)

6. Crypto’s Fanatic Psychology & Retail Harm

• Host Big T: “I don't find there to be many casual crypto enthusiasts. Why do you think that is?” (100:27)
  • Ben: Crypto's strongest adopters are “psychologically invested” as much as financially; losing deepens their belief, not their skepticism.
• Victim Stories: Tales of working-class Americans destroyed by failed schemes (e.g. Celsius), left both emotionally and financially shattered.

7. Skepticism & Personal Responsibility

• Advice if you can’t afford to lose it, don’t gamble in crypto. The notion that index fund holders are also indirectly exposed via institutional investments.
  • "Just assume or imagine a scenario where whatever money you put in, you lose it. Are you okay?...if it does, my suggestion...is just don't take that risk." (130:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On SBF and why he granted an interview (91:38)

"I studied up on the psychology of fraudsters...one of the things that he (Dan Davis) pointed out is that fraudsters, they're sort of like method actors. They consider themselves legitimate businessmen...Sam started off as (that), you know." — Ben McKenzie

On crypto believer psychology (101:15)

"I think the more they lose, the more they have to believe. And I'm sure a lot of the guys who believe in it have won because they bought in way early. But if your argument is, well, it's not a Ponzi scheme, because if you bought in early, you would have done well. That's a feature of a Ponzi scheme." — Ben McKenzie

On the tech myth (106:45)

"Blockchains — you'll notice, is not used by really any businesses outside of the cryptocurrency industry. It's very hard to find businesses to use blockchain. And the reason is it sucks." — Ben McKenzie

On what’s holding up prices (116:01)

"You're investing in the story of bitcoin that like, bitcoin is worth something and you're investing in the belief of other people, then it's worth something...all crypto is really just convincing you to give your real money over in exchange for this thing they're calling a currency that isn't really a currency." — Ben McKenzie

On NFT culture (120:27)

“So really, an NFT is like a receipt...A receipt for a link to a jpeg...there's a term for it which is called ‘Greater fool theory.’” — Ben McKenzie

On risk and regulation (127:27)

"I'm not saying outlaw crypto, because I don't think that would work...I would just classify all of the speculative cryptocurrencies...as securities. And then they have to follow securities laws." — Ben McKenzie

On the podcasts’ spirit (136:30)

"I did enjoy the movie. I think you did a good job again, like, kind of putting into words a lot of the things that I've been feeling for the last, like, in my gut for the last eight or nine years or ten years or however long it's been that I've been, like, casually observing the crypto space." — PFT Commenter

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [13:59-27:52]: Clavicular and the wild world of looksmaxxing internet influencers
  • Detailed discussions on internet toxicity, streamer culture, and mental health
• [31:12]: Golf banter, tracking packages, life updates
• [33:55]: Did Trump kill LIV Golf? Analysis of geopolitics, Saudi spending, rumors of LIV's demise
• [37:01]: Allbirds' sudden AI pivot—a “blockchain style” stock pump?
• [54:36]: News segment: Pablo Escobar's hippos and animal control ethics
• [85:45]: Start of interview with Ben McKenzie & Dave Miller
  • Backstory on the doc and crypto skepticism (86:55)
  • Interview with SBF, comparisons to fraudsters (91:38)
  • Breakdown of fraud, marketing, regulatory risk (103:13, 106:45, 127:27)
  • Risks to the wider economy and possible regulatory actions (129:41)
  • Interlude: Queso and barbecue in Austin, lighter moments (133:14)

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Tone and Language

The conversation is witty, irreverent, and skeptical—emphasizing curiosity, irreverence, and a drive to demystify both crypto and internet culture. Ben often delivers in-depth answers with a blend of economic rigor and approachable sarcasm, never losing sight of retail-level impact or the broader systemic risks.

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Summary Takeaway

Everyone is Lying to You for Money (the film and this discussion) argues that crypto hype is less a technological revolution and more a contemporary tulip mania. Ben McKenzie's perspective, informed by both economic training and true-crime interest, spotlights how greed, gullibility, and opaque marketing combine to fleece everyday Americans—while also potentially threatening global finance if stablecoins and "corporate money" gain traction.

The Macrodosing crew, with signature blend of humor and insight, distills this cautionary tale for both the crypto-curious and the hardened skeptic, highlighting a need for common sense, critical thinking, and regulatory oversight amid history’s newest gold rush.

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Recommended: Watch Ben’s documentary (or read the book) to see the full cast of characters, from celebrity shills to the most notorious crypto schemers, at play.

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For a more granular breakdown, check timestamps above or listen to the full episode on your preferred platform.

Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Big T, what else you got?

[C]

Well, this is a hard pivot. I don't know if we want to save it for the end, but you played flag football with Drew Brees growing up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

How was he? Was he awesome?

[D]

He was awesome.

[A]

Welcome back to another episode of Macrodosing. Today is Thursday. It is April 16th. Hope you got your taxes in yesterday. Today's episode is brought to you by Shady Rays. Quick Shady Ray story. This is a true story. I do have a pair of Shady Rays right here. By the way, these are some brand new ones. I forget what model these are, but I really like them a lot. The red. I'm trying out a new look this summer. What do you think about the red?

[C]

It goes well with the hat.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you. I love these new these new Shady Rays. But true story about them. Two days ago, or maybe it was yes, no. Two days ago I was sitting in my living room and I thought to myself, it is time to reload on sunglasses. Because I've, as I've said, I probably lose more sunglasses than 99 of the population. So I went, I logged on to shady rays.com I did enter promo code Macro on shady rays dot com. I got a big discount on my order and I don't want to say how much how much money I spent on Shady Rays because they do send us free sunglasses from time to time here. But I spent hundreds of dollars on Shady Rays using promo code macro 2 days ago Just to re full Reset for the summertime. Different models, different styles. I'm going to be good to go. They're actually premium sunglasses. And I'm not exaggerating. They feel every bit as premium as the expensive brands out there. So if you're wearing Shady Rays, if you're wearing them on a lake, on a boat, to the game, on the job site, you can wear them confidently because if you drop them, if you break them, if you lose them, they replace them. If you sit on them, they replace them. And they've got the polarized lenses that cut the glare hard. I did polarize, I think, on just about every pair. So go to shadyrays.com get a pair and get sunglasses with lost and broken protection. And here's the deal with Shady Rays. We're doing an exclusive offer. Go to shadyrays.com use code macro 40% off two or more pairs of polarized sunglasses. That's 40% off. Use promo code macro. Get 40% off two or more polarized sunglasses. Try for yourself the shades rated five stars by over 300,000 people. They should be arriving. I can probably track really easily where they are. I would imagine that they're going to be arriving maybe by the end of the week. So maybe by next week on macro dosing, you will see I'll start wearing the new pairs and you can see for yourself. They are great shades. I'm pumped to get them. And yeah, highly recommend. Use promo code [e-mail] I. I don't.

[C]

I wasn't planning on starting the show this way, but you brought something up about tracking. I learned something yesterday. Did you know that, like, the shipping carriers can. They're notified how many times you check a tracking number? And apparently if you check something, if you check a bunch of packages a lot, that's an indicator that, like, you're shipping drugs or something. I obsessively track every package that I know is coming to my house. Now, it said 99.9% of people, they don't care because they know that's not what's happening. But if you apparently are like, shipping and receiving enough stuff and you're checking in a bunch that it flags something in the system and it tells them to, like, look into your stuff.

[A]

I had no idea about that.

[C]

Me neither. I mean, I guess it makes sense.

[A]

But I do know that there's, like, various algorithms that track a lot of different activities to try to determine like, like banks, for example, like a lot of banks track. If you. It's probably a lot different now. Because times have changed. But I know back in, like, the 2010s, maybe late 2000s, if you bought a lot of stuff at, like, CVS's or Walgreens or, like, local drugstores, if you had a certain pattern, it would get flagged as potential methamphetamine behavior. Like if you're buying Sudafed.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

At a lot of different places. So, like. Yeah. Banks, in order. Because they have a lot of regulations that they have to follow, too, in terms of, like, they can't. They're not supposed to just take money from whoever and not ask any questions. If there's a reasonable expectation that they could figure out that somebody is, like, laundering money or involved in illicit drug sales, they're supposed to, like, kind of monitor that stuff, so. But now you're saying that if you

[C]

check, I assume it would have to be a ridiculous amount of times and on a number of packages for you to do it. Yeah, yeah. If there's something I want that's coming to my house, I'm checking it multiple times a day.

[A]

Yeah, me too.

[C]

I know when it gets to Elk Grove Village, Illinois, at the processing center, I know when it's on its way here. I know everything.

[A]

Yeah, I do check. I check a lot. Especially if I do, like, fast shipping.

[C]

Also, people steal off your porch, so that is true.

[A]

But that's mostly. That's mostly just my clothes. And I think they learned their lesson last time when they opened it up, and they're like, there's just a million tracksuits in here.

[C]

The Napoleon jumpsuits.

[A]

The Napoleon jumpsuits, yeah. That's not. I don't think that's the high ticket item that they were hoping for. I did. Speaking of retail therapy, I did spend also a fair amount of money this morning. I had. I had a big time. I'm never going to financially recover from this moment when I woke up this morning.

[C]

But you probably will.

[A]

I might. I probably will recover from it. But it's a fun meme.

[C]

Yeah, good meme.

[A]

The commanders released new uniforms this morning. And so I saw that, and I was like, I will. I will 100% buy the new uniforms. Great job by the commanders. Let me just say that, like, we've had some pretty terrible PR with that franchise going back 30, about 30 years or so. They just. They. They hit one. They had a fastball that was grooved right down the middle of the plate, and they knocked out of the park with a uniform redesign. It's just essentially what they Wore for about 40 years. They just kind of went back to the old uniforms, so they look awesome. Great job. The new uniforms. And by new, I mean, like, after the commander's rebrand. So the uniforms that we've had for the last five, six years were probably the worst in the NFL, and I think most people would agree with that. But the new ones, very nice. So good job. I had no choice but to log on this morning. There is one point that people are bringing up online that I find myself somewhat agreeing with when it comes to the uniform redesign. Do you know what I'm about to say? No, I'm not sure that the W with a spear logo through it, I don't think that's physically possible.

[C]

Some guy did it with the straw.

[A]

Yeah, but then you can look at it. It depends on what angle you look at it from. So the W is supposed to be three dimensional, and if you look at the W like the W's pointing out to the left, I don't know that the spirit can go through it that way. Somebody did reenact it and recreate it with a piece of folded paper showing how the W weaves around straw, which I see, and I think that there's some truth to that. But then if you change how you look at W and you look at the W as if it's coming out into your left.

[C]

Out into the left.

[A]

Yeah. So, like, if.

[C]

Okay, so. So look, so it goes. Oh, imagine this is the paper. Right? It goes over this part, under this part, over this part, under again.

[A]

Right. That.

[D]

That.

[A]

That makes sense. But if you're. If you're thinking of the W as being like a three dimensional tent, that's pointing out that way, that part of the spear. And this is bad podcasting because I'm just saying this and that, but the second part of the spear, the part of the spear that's in the middle of the W should not be overlapping

[C]

that piece of the W. You're saying it should. That it should alternate the ones that it's over and under.

[A]

The bottom line is I'm not entirely convinced that the W with a spear redesign is physically possible. I get nervous when I look. It gives me anxiety when I look at it. But maybe if you're a player on the other team, you're looking at that W the whole time, and it's making you feel uneasy too.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Art of War.

[C]

I like it. I think it's solid. I do.

[A]

So, yeah, I think it's a really good redesign. So great job. To the. To the commanders.

[C]

How many jerseys you Buy.

[A]

I bought two this morning.

[C]

Oh, you made it sound like you bought eight.

[A]

Oh, well, I'm not done. But here's the thing. And this. You can maybe call me conceded for this, but I think I. I don't think that I am. I got a. A text from one of my. One of my friends on the Commanders, and he was like, hey, what's your address? This was, like, I don't know, a month ago. And it was right along the same timeline as when they said that there was going to be a uniform redesign. So I gave him the address of the barstool sports office here. So I'm thinking there might be. I'm thinking that they're. Why did you give him your answer, sport? I mean, like, people. People like you do that to people like you.

[D]

You're on a. You're unsure of their. What they might do.

[A]

Oh, no, I'm not unsure. I'm just saying, like, he asked me for the address, and so I gave him the address.

[D]

Oh, I thought he asked for your address. I got you.

[A]

And also, I usually do give out the office address just in case, like, it gets dropped off at my house and somebody takes.

[C]

You do have a thievery problem.

[A]

I do have a thievery problem.

[D]

Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah.

[A]

So. So I gave him the office address. And so I'm thinking that there might be something for me in the next day or two. So I don't want to buy too much, just in case that's what they sent me.

[C]

It's fair.

[A]

Does that make sense?

[C]

So you. You got a Jaden, presumably?

[A]

No.

[C]

Did you get, like, the punter?

[A]

I have a Jaden from. I have the white Jaden from last year when the white jersey was. That was their last year.

[C]

And you have the LSU one.

[A]

I have the LSU one, and I've got the old burgundy from Jaden, which. That wasn't even burgundy. That was, like, a red uniform that we had. It sucked. I'm so glad that they're done, but. So I did not buy Jaden. I bought a burgundy Luke McAffrey and then a black Mike San Restreal.

[C]

Nice.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel. I feel like maybe my next one up might be a black Sean Taylor. My problem with that is, like, Sean Taylor's my favorite football player of all time, and I want to buy his jersey. The black Sean Taylor jersey is going to be very intimidating. I don't know that it goes in my vibe.

[C]

It doesn't bother you at all that he didn't wear that?

[A]

See, that's the Thing you could do

[C]

one of the other colors.

[A]

Right. That's the thing I was thinking was, well, because I already do have a white Sean Taylor and a burgundy Sean Taylor.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[A]

But, yeah, he never wore the black one, so it's just kind of like. That part is a little bit weird.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Also, I don't. I. I'm not. I don't think I'm badass enough to wear a black Sean Taylor uniform. I feel like that's a jersey that if you wear. You have to be able to. You have to be willing and able to back it up with violence if necessary.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, there's a few uniforms like that. If you. If you're walking around town wearing a Bill Romanowski uniform, you have to have your head on a swivel, ready to knock somebody out.

[D]

That's a throwback name.

[A]

Yeah. But not the World Peace one.

[C]

Correct.

[A]

I would say the Aaron Hernandez blue Patriots uniform.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

If you're wearing that one, you have to be willing to go to prison.

[C]

Dennis Rodman.

[A]

Rodman jerseys. You gotta be ready to throw down as well.

[C]

Any Raiders. I gotta.

[D]

Rodman sweater.

[A]

Yeah, Raiders. Because it's like you're. You're representing the. The fan base as a whole. When you put on the silver and black like that, Those are probably the big ones, I would say. All right, well, welcome back to Macrodosing. It's good to see you guys. We have a cool interview coming up later on in the show with the director and star of everyone's lying to you for money, Ben McKenzie and his friend Dave. His friend Dave, also from the film. And you can see it. I think it's playing in select theaters right now. Probably should be streaming soon, but we got a chance to take a look at it. And really good movie. It's about crypto. And Ben's a fascinating guy, so we got a chance to talk to him. I think it was a good interview. And before we get to that, we got some other stuff in the news to talk about today. Big T. Where. Where on this list do you want to start?

[C]

I was going to ask you, would you like to start with clavicular? Allbirds becoming an AI company or Columbia killing all of Pablo Escobar's hippos?

[A]

Okay. All three of these, I think I might have a controversial take on.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

Really?

[A]

I think so. I might go 3 for 3 on these.

[C]

Start with. With clavicular.

[A]

Okay. My take on.

[D]

Explain to me who clavicular is.

[C]

Oh, my goodness. I'll do my best. So Clavicular is A guy, we've talked about him once or twice. He is, he's the looksmaxing ambassador.

[E]

He would hit his face with hammers to make himself look better.

[C]

His whole thing is like, is like to, to make himself look perfect.

[D]

But what is looks, looks maxing. I can give context clues trying to.

[C]

It's what it sounds like.

[E]

As attractive as you possibly can to by any means necessary. AKA hitting your face with hammers.

[C]

Does he really do that?

[E]

Yeah, I've seen it, I've seen it on like clips. I don't watch his streams obviously.

[C]

Yeah. So he's also a streamer. So he's one of these guys who just, I get, they just follow themselves around with a camera like all day every day and they're live. And last night he overdosed and went to the hospital and it was all just live on camera. Like they were, he and his buddies were sitting in a booth, it looked like in a club or something. And he just starts like nodding off and the guy sitting next to him is this comically like just roided out guy. And he's looking at his friend like clearly something very bad is going on. He goes, you need an addie. You need an Addie, bro. And then. Yes. And then at some point they took him to the hospital and he tweeted this morning that he was released.

[A]

So I have a, I have a take on it. It's going to be a bummer take.

[C]

Just a heads up that this shouldn't be content.

[A]

Well, ideally it shouldn't be, but that. That cat's out of the bag.

[C]

Yeah, I mean that's gone.

[A]

It is content. It's pretty clear to me that clavicular has body dysmorphia and that he will, has a lot and he will never be happy. He needs some like he needs drastic mental health treatment because it's no different what he's doing than a young woman with a severe eating disorder that is just not going to get better and will turn to self destructive behavior unless they get therapy and they do like years of work on themselves mentally. It's pretty clear that clavicular has some bad body dysmorphia problems that he needs to just like probably needs to log off for a while because the chat's probably not going to help with, with him getting over any of that stuff and it's affecting his world view on just how he sees everybody else and everything. And he's self medicating and it's going to end really bad for him unless he gets help. That's kind of my.

[D]

I. I think I despise you guys for introducing me to.

[E]

I'm sure your older daughter, like, is aware of. Of this.

[D]

I'm gonna text her right now.

[C]

What was the thing? He said there's no way she would know. And she, she did.

[E]

I can't remember, but, like, it was something like that. I think he's super popular with, like, kids and teenagers. Did you also see big T, his 60 Minutes interview?

[C]

Yeah, he stormed out of a 60 Minutes interview the other day when they started asking him about Andrew Tate.

[D]

60 Minutes interviewed a look smacking clavicle.

[E]

But it wasn't like, yo, let me off. It was, let me offer this. It was an interesting Look. It was 60 Minutes Australia. And it was an interesting look at he. And I don't want to put a diagnosis on this kid. I think he might be a bit neurodivergent. And it is really interesting to see him interact in a situation where he is not in complete control of what's happening. Like, if you watch 60 minute clips, there's one that went. There's two that went viral. One is of him, one walking out because the interviewer asked him about his relationship to Andrew Tate. Because he's been seen with Andrew Tate. And he was like, I didn't want to make this political in the 60 minutes guy was like, well, it's not political. It's about Andrew Tate. Then he walks out. The other one is about his relationship to. Is he an incel slash his relationship or proximity to the incel community? And both questions that are very fair in a journalistic integrity type of way. It is very interesting to see this kid, like, completely, like, just curl up into a ball when asked any sort of pressing question about it at all. And he is, he is so deeply, like, over his skis when it comes to the amount of influence that he has versus his wisdom on what's going on of anything. And like, I mean, he literally, Arian, you're gonna, like, be so upset that these are even words that are coming out of my mouth. The guy, the interviewer said, how, like, should do you think I should start looks maxing? Like, what do you think? And the guy said, or. And clavicular said, well, they must have been over, like, a zoom of some variety. And he said, well, I don't know. You're giga far away. It's like, that's just not. Those aren't words that come out of people's mouths. And I am someone like, to throw on stupid words from Time to time. Like you aren't speaking in English, like you're in 60 minutes. So I think it's a really interesting thing to see him through like a streaming lens and a, you know, journalistic lens.

[D]

It's the Internet. Brain rot. It's just you, you. Yeah, kids are just way too online and that's the world they exist in. And they just exist in an algorithmic cesspool and they think that's reality.

[E]

The streaming thing takes it to a whole nother level. And again, I don't. I feel bad. I. I fear he or I think he has talked about how he has some sort of like, neurodivergence. I don't want to say he's like autistic or like necessarily, but like he has some, some like something going on. And I just kind of believe that his like special interest or something that he hyper fixates on is. Look, is. Looks like how some people on the autistic spectrum really like bugs or sports facts or whatever it is. I think his is genuinely how he can maximize his level of attractiveness, which is so sad because like, that's just obviously not going to get like, that's never going to fill your cup.

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

Is he.

[D]

Is he one of those in sales?

[E]

Well, that's. So that's what 60 Minutes asked him and he was like, why would you even ask me this? You. Your last question was about how you. My relationship to women and now you're asking me if I'm an incel. Like, are you stupid? I don't know. What? I don't know. He refused to answer the question. I don't know. I'm not tapped in on Clavicular enough to know if he is having sex with women. I truly don't know. Big T, do you know?

[C]

No. I know probably less about this guy than you do.

[E]

Yeah, I'm not sure if he's an incel.

[D]

I hate that I know he exists.

[C]

Adults have said this forever. Like it was tv, then it was video games and whatever. I am, I am actually very concerned about the type of content that children are consuming these days because, I mean, this is very different than even like the worst video games like these guys. I'm looking at a tweet right now. Pft. I know you're not a drug guy, but maybe you can help me a little bit. Clavicular's friend, Androgynic. That's the roided out guy who was sitting next to him.

[A]

Don't, don't, don't play to me don't know. Androgyny.

[C]

That's the guy who was sitting next to him as he was overdose.

[D]

Thank God. Okay, I text my daughter. I said. I said, do you know who curvicular is? She said, yes. Lol y. I said, he got brought up on a pod and I hate that I know he exists now. I said, do you watch him? She said, jesus, no.

[E]

Okay, good. The kids are all right.

[C]

She's horrible, but okay. Clavicular's friend Androgynic reveals the quote pentastack looks maxers used to stream, which may have led to clavicular's od. Here is the. Here are the five drugs.

[A]

The pentastack that he lists.

[D]

Yo. That this sentence that says so it's

[E]

just mixing drugs is out of.

[A]

Let's not poo poo the pentastone stack until we find out what.

[D]

Read that. Read that sentence again.

[C]

One more time. All the way through. Clavicular's friend Androgynic reveals the pentastack looks maxers used to stream, which may have led to clavicular's od.

[E]

Totally. I. I did need to hear it twice to even figure out what.

[A]

You're out of here.

[C]

All right, here's the penta stack. Adderall, Ketamine.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Dxm.

[A]

Don't know.

[C]

I'm not familiar with that. Yeah, bdo.

[A]

Don't know what that is.

[C]

And pregabalin.

[A]

No idea. I. I'm two for five on the

[C]

pentastack and it looks like they drink it out of a five hour energy bottle. I don't know if they're mixing it with 5 hour energy or what the deal is.

[A]

What was the. Was the first initial one that you said dxm D. Dxm. Let's see what DXM is. Dextromethorphan. It's. Oh, it's robitussin. Oh, it's like. Yeah, it's like robotryppin. Okay.

[C]

Okay. What's bdo?

[A]

BDO drug. Butanedyl. It's used in paint strippers.

[E]

Oh, good.

[A]

I don't think they mean dancers. I think they mean, like, to take paint off things.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Ingested. BDO is converted into ghb. Got it. Okay.

[C]

Which is.

[A]

GHB is a party drug sometimes known as the date rape drug. Oh, yeah. But people. Well, it's different than rohypnol. But GHB is like a party drug. People use it at like, raves and clubs and stuff. I've never done it, but it's like it's a pretty common rave drug, but it can be used for some bad.

[C]

And then this last one. Pregabalin is a prescription medication used to treat neuropathic pain, fibromyalgia, partial onset seizures and generalized anxiety disorder. It acts by calming overactive nerves.

[A]

Okay, so like an anxiety. I. I'm not a doctor. It does sound like you should not combine all five of these things. Sounds like.

[C]

But it's the pentastone.

[A]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Sounds like. Yeah.

[D]

My daughter said he does height maxing by tippy toeing and sagging his pants to look taller.

[A]

Doing that.

[E]

I like, this is he. This is obviously such a bad, bad thing that's happening. Like, this is the content that children are getting now. It makes me like so sad to think that like people like this that are so like morally corrupt and so empty on the inside, like, are doing shit like that.

[D]

Like, yo, wasn't there a movement pft like bring bullying back?

[A]

Yeah, like, yeah, like, you know, like

[D]

I'm starting to be more and more

[A]

convinced of this because wouldn't fly like

[D]

this back in the day because you get beat up for doing dumb or saying stupid and not all ass whoopings are were, you know, justifiable, but man,

[A]

it was some kind of order.

[D]

It's just, this is. I feel I'm old now. I. I've across the threshold. Clavicular has put me into the old man yelling at yeah, young society now.

[A]

What the.

[D]

Oh, mom, I'm old. It is what it is.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. It's bad. It's bad. I don't know. I don't know why people like clavicular. I think, I think what they're talking about with the like incel community is that he might not be an insult, but I think a lot of the stuff that he talks about appeals to people out there that are not having any luck with the opposite sex. I think when he's talking about like looks maxing and here's why, here's what you have to do to make women like you. If you don't do this, women will always go for a higher value male than you. Like that type of stuff does appeal to an incel audience or people that are more likely to become incel. So I don't know that he is, but I think that him trying to like drill his own insecurities into his watchers and, and the people in his chat, I think that does push them down a path that makes him like more likely to Become incel and just like hold it against women. But yeah, so my, my big takeaway is I think the guy is. He's got body dysmorphia and has some mental illness that he needs to take care of. And probably the last thing for that he needs to be doing is like constantly, constantly streaming. But that's what he does. And I saw the interview that he did with Adam Friedland where Adam was just like talking to him about. About his life. And it seems like every second clavicular is not on a stream. He like, he regrets it. Like he wants to be streaming constantly, which is not. Not going to be good for him. So that's my, that's my take on it.

[C]

He tweeted this morning, just got home. That was brutal. All of the substances are just a cope trying to feel neurotypical while being in public. But obviously that isn't a real solution.

[A]

Okay, all right. I. I feel like that's he's being honest with himself.

[B]

He.

[C]

Then tell me what this means. The worst part of tonight was my face descending from the life support mask.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Is he talking about like an oxygen mat? What does that mean?

[A]

No, I think he's my face descending from the life support mask, like getting worse. Meaning that his. Yeah, his face got worse because he wore.

[D]

He might.

[E]

Saved his life.

[A]

He might have been intubated and so he's bloated. Yeah. So he woke up this morning, like with saggy skin. Yeah, he woke up like dehydrated maybe. And his face doesn't look good.

[D]

Is his fault.

[A]

Does he have a dad like in the picture? I. I have no idea. It doesn't sound like it.

[D]

I don't. Yeah, I don't want to. I don't want to cast too wide a net there, but that sounds like something he didn't have. Shut your ass up in the house. But he might have, you know, I don't know.

[C]

Says he was born on December 17, 2005 to a businessman father and stay at home. Mother was raised in Hoboken, New Jersey.

[A]

Oh, hell yeah.

[C]

Attended Seton Hall Preparatory School.

[F]

Oh, my gosh.

[E]

Interesting. He's 19. Of course he's from New Jersey. Or. No, 21.

[C]

Braden Eric Peters. He looks like a Braden.

[A]

He does. Braden Eric Clavecular Peters.

[D]

I. I suggest a hard pivot from. From this guy. Sorry, I don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Unless you guys, I'm. I'm just over him.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's sad. It's sad stuff. I also think it. Right now we're living in a Day and age, where Frank the Tank's mental health is about a million times better than claviculars. For both being from like the same part of the country and both.

[D]

How's he doing with his weight loss?

[A]

He's down. I, I don't even know how much he weighs right now because he's so skinny.

[E]

Probably like 280ish, I think maybe even,

[A]

maybe even less than that. But he's kind of, I don't want to say he's, he's done losing weight because he's not. But the weight loss is slowed because he's lost so much of it. And now he's, he's doing like muscle workouts and strength training and things like that every day. Yeah, I've, I, I got some inspiration from Frank as well recently. So I, I've been dealing with like, repeated calf strains and muscle pulls in my legs and in my, in my hamstring. I do think it's connected to my back, which, by the way, I got an MRI in my back yesterday. Gonna find out more about what the issue is with the, the fused vertebrae that are going, going on back there, but hopefully get, get some answers on that soon. But in the meantime, I'm just trying to like, stay as active as I can without re injuring myself. So I decided that every Wednesday, now that the weather's getting nice, I'm going to walk to work and back, which is about like 50 minutes to an hour to get here. So I was all ready to do it this morning and then it started to rain and I don't have an umbrella, so I was like, all right. But I, I do think I should get credit for having every intention of walking to work this morning until I check the weather app. Right.

[E]

Yeah. Good job.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

You could do it tomorrow.

[D]

No.

[A]

Yeah, but it's a Wednesday thing, like Wednesday walk. Right. It's got the W's.

[C]

Well, tomorrow you got to be here early.

[A]

I gotta be here. I'm not gonna walk to work at 5am Why? I don't want to be walking.

[C]

You would feel safe on the streets

[A]

of, of any city at 5:00am oh, okay.

[C]

I, I would feel safe, but maybe that's just me.

[A]

Yeah. Are you packing?

[D]

Why don't you have an umbrella?

[A]

I should, I should buy an umbrella.

[C]

I like that. I don't do umbrellas either.

[A]

Yeah, I only pack.

[D]

What do you got? What do you mean you don't have an umbrella?

[A]

I mean, if you're a real.

[C]

For a minute.

[A]

Yeah. If you're, if you're a real one. You don't need an umbrella. Like try going to Seattle with people that are about that life in the rain and walking around with an umbrella. They're going to be like,

[D]

I've never heard of this weather. Maxing.

[A]

Yeah, it's called. Yeah, I do that.

[C]

We rain. Max.

[A]

Enviromax.

[D]

No, I got, I gotta use umbrellas, man. It's all weather. Get the sun up off you, get the rain up off you.

[C]

But if it's, if there's any wind at all while it's raining, the umbrella doesn't even do anything for you. It's still just blowing in your face.

[D]

Chicago is a different story. We don't got wind like that here. Yeah, you may have a, you have a point over there.

[A]

Yeah, but like it, I mean I'm

[D]

sure somebody in Chicago has invented like ultra umbrella where the wind can't affect it like that.

[A]

Maybe PFC is little though.

[D]

That might just take you away.

[A]

Did you hear the rumors pft, you're, you're, you're tapped in with the, with

[D]

the big time golfers. Did you hear the rumors that Liv might be shut.

[A]

We. By the time this episode comes out, we might know more about it.

[C]

They're having an emergency meeting, emergency meeting

[A]

going on right now. I got a question for you guys. Did Donald Trump kill live golf? And I say that, I say that because I don't know enough about it. Live golf is funded by the public investment fund in Saudi Arabia. The state investment fund. Money's getting a little tighter. Belts are being tightened in Saudi Arabia over the last couple months with the war in Iran and Iran firing missiles and sending drones and attacking our allies that are nearby, including Saudi Arabia where there have been numerous attacks. And they're having to expend a lot of money on their own defense over there. They have less money to devote to their sports washing and to their investments in various leagues. That might be a reason why they have to say like we can't spend $500 million million dollars every year on a golf league that does not bring in revenue.

[D]

That's an interesting point. Think about is it isn't. I don't know. They.

[A]

Money is long, right?

[D]

I don't know that it would.

[A]

They could probably just press the cash machine, just get more money if they wanted to. But I do, I do think that like it's, it's interesting that they started a league that whether or not it made money was not important to them until just now.

[D]

Yeah, that's interesting. I'm, I'm I'm not a purist in the sense of, like, I was against it for any kind of moral reasons. I'm a purist in a sense of, like, I just want to see the best compete against each other. You know what I mean? And I hope they. I hope it does end. Not for any of those kind of reasons, but just for, like, dog. I just want to see Bryson, DeChambeau and Scotty go at it every week. You know what I'm saying? Like, I want to see that every week. I hope this is the case. I don't know, though. We'll see.

[C]

You know who they just gave a bag to in Saudi?

[A]

Who?

[C]

Matt Crocker.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

You know who that is?

[A]

No.

[C]

Oh, you didn't see this story?

[D]

No.

[C]

He's the US Soccer, like.

[A]

Yeah. Director. Yeah. Okay. I. I forgot the guy's name. Yeah. He was the guy that was in. In charge of hiring our last coach.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And.

[A]

Yeah. So now I don't know what he's gonna. They saw his track record soccer, and they said, we want to be in the Matt Crocker business.

[C]

Yeah. So he's going to Saudi.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Good luck with that. For the record, I would. I would join the live Tour podcasting for $100 million. That's. That is the price. That is. That's always been the price. $100 million. And you can get me to do or say pretty much anything. That's 100 million. $100 million.

[D]

Now, you sounded like our.

[A]

Our $100 million is $100 million.

[D]

Well, I said. I said take your podcast elsewhere. You said you can get me to do insane.

[A]

Okay, all right. Not. Not. Not do and say anything. I. I'm saying that I will. I will do a podcast for an audience of Muhammad bin Salman. $100 million.

[D]

Oh, yeah, me too. Yeah. 100. I was in. PFT's a warmonger.

[A]

Yep. Yep. 100 million. Like I said, 100 mil is 100 mil.

[C]

I'm checking to make sure I'm correct. I believe what you're describing. The. The looks Maxer crowd, they call that Jester gooning.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It refers to wasting time by engaging in foolish, low IQ or obsessive trance like antics, often as a coping mechanism for social rejection or as a misguided attempt to attract women. Okay, so you would be Jester Gooning for mbs.

[A]

For mbs, yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I woke up this morning not knowing what looks, maxing, or jester gooning was, and I was a better man.

[C]

Yeah, sorry. You know.

[A]

Yeah, that's a welcome to reality, dude. Sorry to educate you. All right, what else we got in the news, Big T?

[C]

Well, you said you had controversial. I guess we'll go to Allbirds next.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

They're, they're an AI company. Now their stock at last check was up to like $18 from like one. It's at 1794 right now, up 620% today. So they announced that they are pivoting from being a shorts company to an AI company. Now what that entails, I have no idea.

[A]

Okay. Allbirds.

[D]

All birds to shoot the shoot.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Well, no longer.

[A]

So I've got a take on this. Maybe we might have some listeners out there that are able to educate me on whether or not I'm talking completely out of my ass along this one or not. I don't think that they are going to become an AI company, Big T. Okay. I think this could be like we saw in the late teens there were a couple, a couple companies that did this that just put the word blockchain in their name. You remember that?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think what they were doing, they're trying to pump their price up real quick. I think they were with people that had short positions on their company and putting a squeeze on them. You know how like when AMC and, and GameStop.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Like went to the moon. Because there were some institutional investors that had short positions on them and, and they wanted to up their money so they drove the price up. I think Allbirds there might be somebody that's got a position, a short position against Allbirds betting for their stock to go down into crater that they put this press release out to. With them to artificially drive their own price up to with a person that has a short position. I don't know if that's against the law. I don't know what's going to happen in the long term. And I could be very wrong about this guess that I have. But that's, that's my reaction.

[C]

It says they plan to buy GPUs and rent out computing power to AI developers who cannot get access through Amazon or Microsoft.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So it sounds like they have like a plan of some sort.

[A]

I just don't know what being a shorts company and a shoes company has to. Well, do they have the space? Nobody does for GPUs?

[C]

I don't know. They have the server buildings, also their shoes. Bird dogs is the shorts.

[A]

I'm wearing bird dogs, the shorts right now.

[C]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

A lot of. Too many birds.

[A]

A lot of birds.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All Birds is the shoes company. I'm wearing the bird dogs right now. Which actually got me into trouble at the MRI yesterday.

[C]

Why is that?

[A]

Well, because I wore my bird dogs there. And the nurse came into the room, and she was like, okay, I need you to strip down to your underwear and put this gown on.

[C]

It's the double.

[A]

And I had to stop her. I'd be like, hey, I. I kind of screwed up this morning. I'm wearing shorts that have the underwear built into them. Should I just keep the shorts on? And she's like, nope, 12. Yeah, I know. She was like, nope. But we do have. We've got some shorts that you can borrow. Yeah.

[E]

Like paper boxers or whatever.

[A]

Yeah. Then she reached in the cabinet and got the most hilarious pair of like. It was like if you designed underwear out of a moving blanket. And she's like, you put these on. I wish I had taken a picture. They did look. They. They looked very, very funny. But, yeah, that's happened to me a couple times when I've been caught in a situation where I have to, like, get changed or something, whether it be for, like, an ad shoot that we're doing here at Barstool or in this case, an mri. And I'm wearing the bird dogs. I'm like, so here's the thing is, I don't have underwear on, but I do have underwear on. I'm not a freak. There is underwear, but it's just. I have to take them off with my shorts. But, yeah. So anyways, back to. Back to what's going on with Allbirds? I. I don't think that they're actually going to pivot to becoming an AI company, but the stock is up massively.

[C]

It's up another dollar since we've been talking. Do we need to get in? Is it going to the moon?

[A]

I did see. I saw. One of the funniest tweets about this exact situation comes from recurring guest of this pod, Anthony Pompliano. Thirty minutes ago, he said, imagine thinking the U.S. economy is going to crash while Allbird changes their name to AI and soars 700%. Imagine.

[C]

Imagine.

[A]

Imagine thinking that Allbirds stock soaring 700,000 or 700% because they changed their name to AI is an indication. Could be an indication of a bad economy. Yeah, imagine. Can you imagine being that dumb?

[C]

Guys, it just keeps going up. We get. We need to get in.

[A]

This is. Yeah, you should do a big deal.

[C]

Should I go buy some?

[A]

You should do it. Try to time this market. What is that right now?

[C]

1829. It just went down a little bit.

[D]

That's.

[A]

So that's down from its peak already today.

[C]

It got up to like 25.

[A]

Yeah. Maddie, can you check our.

[D]

Our investment?

[E]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

Been a while since.

[A]

What do you think about this one, Aaron? About. About all birds.

[D]

I mean, I think you. You hit the head. The fact that the stock is soaring because they said they were going to AI. It's probably not a good sign for us in general.

[A]

No.

[D]

But I don't know. Let's see. Let's see what happens. This is just an interesting. And that's what's crazy. Like, you I got off Twitter, and so I'm not super aware of what's going on like, anymore like that. Like, you know, I have my sources of news that I get it from, but, like, if you miss out, like a week of being on the Internet, like, you just out of the loop. You out of the loop and you feel just like. And it's hard to get back in.

[E]

Honestly, I have to separate it because I have my own stocks on Robinhood now. Not to flex. Okay, so we are up, actually.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

Oh, wait, I. I don't want one day. I want all time.

[C]

Now. We're going to be down.

[A]

No,

[E]

we are up 10% all time.

[C]

Okay, so 100 bucks.

[E]

111.

[C]

What's the winner? When are we getting out of this?

[A]

When we're on the moon.

[D]

I think we. I think we let it rise.

[E]

I say. I don't. We haven't gotten enough return to.

[C]

Well, I know, but it just. What's the. What's the play? We just check this once every six months until this show doesn't exist anymore.

[D]

And then. And then we. And then we empty it when the show. When we're done with the show.

[E]

Yeah, Our peak was $1,384.60.

[A]

Oh.

[E]

Like total. And then right now, as we speak, we're at $1,161.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

So our peak and that peak, by the way, was January 8th of this year. So whatever was happening January 8th, shockingly enough, been down a little bit since Middle Eastern. Tensions have risen. Yeah. And it also took a big peak. I don't know. Last time we checked it, it took a big spike in middle of November. A reason, again, I am not sure as to why.

[C]

And it's nrg.

[E]

We have American Airlines. We don't have the best stocks right now, again, for what's going on. American Airlines.

[A]

That might be a merger, though.

[E]

Oh, yeah, with United. I heard about that,

[D]

man. They Said, I seen it. I've seen a little thing that they gonna put like you can buy out a whole row.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

And then. And they have those little seat things so you can actually like, lay down.

[E]

And we have.

[D]

I love that American.

[C]

American and United are merging.

[E]

It's intoxic.

[C]

As a United guy, I disavow. We don't want that.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

We don't want that American.

[D]

I'm a United guy as well.

[A]

Same big T. Anti American Airlines.

[E]

We have Apple, Expedia, another. I don't know how they're doing right now with everything.

[C]

I still use them.

[E]

Apple.

[C]

When did we switch? Because originally we did like Qualcomm, right?

[A]

Yeah, we did.

[C]

Stadium sponsors.

[E]

Yep, we switched. I think it was something about the travel industry, obviously. I think it was just like, we looked into what was doing well, again, that was a while ago, obviously. And then Apple. Or do I just have Apple? We might all have Apple together. I might give you guys Apple and then. Yeah.

[C]

Do y' all use Expedia?

[A]

I do.

[C]

I'm still rocking with Expedia.

[A]

Yeah. Is that one that most people don't use?

[C]

I think so.

[E]

I think I use it to, like, book hotels.

[A]

Is that boomer of me to use Expedia?

[C]

I think so, but I like it kind of is.

[E]

What do you use it for? Like, what do you book on there?

[C]

Everything. Flights, hotel, rental car.

[A]

Well, first flights.

[D]

How do the. How do the people that gesture goon book it?

[E]

Google Flights.

[D]

Ah, Google Flights. What is this? Oh, you just.

[C]

You just type in the thing Google does. No, but if you type in Houston to Chicago, it. They. They does come up with a Google Flights page.

[E]

Yeah, like, Google Flights is like how

[C]

Google Drive, but it always gives you the most trash. Airlines.

[E]

Well, you can pick it. What airline?

[C]

Yeah, but it start. It goes from like, load. So all you see is Frontier and Spirit and.

[E]

But I use Google Flights. I use Expedia sometimes for hotels, but I don't book hotels that often. But yeah, I use Google Flights for all my flights.

[C]

Really.

[E]

I'm not beholden to one airline at this point in my life, so I like to see what's out there.

[A]

Well, first I have to drive home, and then after I drive home, I. I go to my office room and then I log on to the desktop and then I type in Expedia.

[C]

Do you actually that that's a thing?

[A]

And then I buy a flight that is on my desktop.

[E]

That's like Boomer.

[C]

Yeah. Whether you'll do it on a phone or not?

[A]

No. I. I buy. Yeah. Just about everything on the phone.

[C]

My fiance won't do purchases over, like, a hundred dollars on a phone.

[E]

Yeah. I don't. Like, I'm with her. I'm with her.

[D]

It does feel more official when it's on the. Like the laptop. You know what I mean?

[E]

Flights. I do not book on my phone. Flights. It's so easy, though, in the app.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

On your phone.

[C]

Just like when we booked our honeymoon, I was doing it on my phone and she was freaking out.

[A]

Like, the interception.

[C]

She was like, you can't do that. I was like, I'm doing it. Everything seemed to work.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Everything big. I do on my laptop.

[C]

I wonder the psychology of that.

[E]

I. Sometimes when it's like a flight or something like that, or like a website. If I'm on a website versus an app, if I do. If. Let's say I'm. I'm flying and I know I need to fly United, I will just go to the United app. That's. That's a different thing.

[C]

Okay, same.

[E]

But if I am doing something on a website, like I'm on my Safari app on my phone. No, because the formatting is different. And then I. It's. Sometimes the credit cards, it's. It's all just jumbled up and. And compressed together.

[C]

But your credit card is saved on your phone. You just tap the button and it's done.

[E]

I'm not saying it's like. But I'm just saying, like, the formatting is often, like, it doesn't work right. And then sometimes it clicks back and then something pops up. I like it when it's on my laptop. If it's a website and I can see everything that I need to see and it's clean, it's a cleaner process.

[C]

Yeah. Like, if I did it on my computer, I'd have to go grab my credit card, type in the number.

[E]

Don't you have your credit card saved on your laptop, too?

[C]

No, because I needed to do something for it one time, and I just never did it. So it's only on my phone.

[E]

Oh. See, my. My credit card is saved on my laptop, too. So then it's like, bing, bam, boom. So easy.

[D]

Bing, bam, boom.

[E]

Right. So I. Big purchases or pretty much any purchase not made on an app, I do on my laptop.

[C]

But you could do those on an app.

[E]

I know, but sometimes I'm like. Again, sometimes I'm just not on the app or I don't have said app on my phone, and I'm not gonna go download the app to Just make a purchase. When I can go to type in www.whatever.com.

[C]

i will say I did. I downloaded a rental car app for my bachelor party, and it was a. It was the worst app ever made. I don't know if the company does business with us, so I won't say it, but horrific app.

[E]

Like PFT always says, like, there's too many apps.

[A]

Too many apps. You need apps for everything.

[E]

So I don't.

[C]

But if you have an app, it needs to be usable.

[A]

I just got a vacuum cleaner the other day. Don't tell me the vacuum needs an app.

[E]

I think you're just.

[C]

That's. Yeah, that's a rich.

[E]

Like. I think you're just buying rich people things that.

[D]

Well, I had. I had to download an app in order to print something because I had to get something. What is it called?

[E]

Notorized.

[D]

Not notarized. And I had to. I had to print something off. So I. I had to. I had. I have a printer, but I got it for my daughter, but I have to download the app in order to print. So it's just a lot dog. It's a lot going on.

[C]

Is it a robot vacuum?

[A]

It is.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like pretty much a Roomba.

[C]

Pretty much what? It's. It.

[A]

It is a different type of Roomba.

[F]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. A competitor to Roomba, but it's better

[C]

because you need an app.

[A]

No, I don't. I.

[D]

That's kind of lit, though.

[A]

Hold on. You can, like.

[D]

Can you steer it?

[A]

Can you steer it? I haven't tried to do that.

[E]

Well, the whole point is that you don't have to steer a robot,

[C]

but if you want it to go get one more spot or something, I probably.

[A]

I might be able to. I don't know. It's charging right now, but.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

In the past week, I've downloaded an app for a vacuum. I've downloaded an app for a treadmill here at the office that we have a walking pad. And then I started to get notifications, like five an hour from. From the walking pad. And so I had to just delete the app entirely. So now I have to reinstall the app every time I use the walking pad.

[C]

Could just turned off notifications.

[A]

I got. I wanted to make a point.

[E]

Big T. Why do you need the app to start it? Yeah, there's no. That's. The remote. Is the app.

[A]

Well, there's also a remote, but we have to get the batteries and that whole thing. So I. I just did the app because the app was right there and I didn't have the batteries for it.

[C]

Are you getting notifications from just a bunch of random apps?

[A]

No, no.

[D]

I've.

[A]

I've turned off notifications for the ones that I don't need, but this one just made me pissed off. So I was like, I'm deleting the app.

[C]

I do no notifications other than phone calls and text messages.

[A]

That's probably a smart way to do it.

[C]

No other notice.

[A]

Probably a very smart way to do it.

[C]

When I see people getting just random notifications all day, it gives me anxiety.

[D]

My MLB app is doing that now. It's kind of pissing me off. Like, I'm not just getting brewers now. It's like Lee News.

[C]

Did you get the Kevin McGonagall contract today?

[D]

I've swiping up, so I have no idea. I don't. I'm not even looking at anymore. That's desensitizing me to Brewers News. I need to change that.

[A]

I just got two way Otani tonight from MLB. Kitty, keep it up. Shohei Otani carries a 0.00 ERA and a Major League Baseball high 48 game on base streak into tonight's Mets Dodgers game. I did not know that Shohei Ohtani had a 48 game on base streak.

[C]

Yeah, but I don't count it, okay? Because it's across seasons. The whole point of a streak is that you're hot. Like you've been doing it day after day after day. It shouldn't be able to carry over years.

[A]

Now, does this count? The playoffs of last year, is that part of the streak?

[C]

Sure. I don't think so.

[A]

Okay, so if it doesn't count the playoffs in the streak, then that's bullshit. If it does, if it includes the playoffs and it's every game he's played, I'm kind of in on it. 48 Games is a long ass time.

[C]

Yeah, he's one of the greatest players ever. It's great. But the whole. The streak is. You've been doing it day after day.

[A]

You don't count the. If there's an off season, it's over.

[C]

Yeah, that's not a streak anymore. It's a different season.

[D]

Okay. You can turn off news from around the league. I just did that. So I'm gonna have to do that.

[A]

All right, Big T. Before we get into the next story, it's brought to you by DraftKings. NBA Playoffs are here. DraftKings sportsbook and official sports betting partner. The NBA boosts every game day, the whole postseason. When the lights get brightest, the Best players in the world show you exactly who they are. Playoff stars turn it up round by round. DraftKings turns it up, too. They got a profit boost available every single game day from the first round all the way to the finals. New Sportsbook customers bet just $5. And if your bet wins, you're gonna get 300 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app. Use code macro so you're ready for the moment. That's code macro. Turn five bucks into 300 in bonus bets. If your bet wins in partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

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[A]

Today's episode's also brought to you by Normal from the creator of John Wick and Nobody Comes the new movie Normal. It's a double barreled shotgun blast of pure mayhem. It's got Bob Odenkirk playing playing Sheriff Ulysses. And Sheriff Ulysses is a temporary sheriff in the quaint town of Normal, Minnesota. He's just trying to get away from it all. The new job was supposed to be a welcome respite from recent troubles. But when a botched bank robbery interrupts the piece, a dark secrets exposed. And we're going to find out that Normal is anything but. Directed by Ben Wheatley, starring Bob Odenkirk, Henry Winkler and Lena Heady. See it only in theaters starting April 17th. That is this Friday. Only in theaters. Check it out from Magnolia Pictures. It's Normal. Sounds like a good movie. I love Bob. All right, Big T. Next story.

[C]

Yeah, the only other one. Are you familiarized with Pablo Escobar's hippos? I am, yeah. So he brought in, I Forget the number. 80 maybe. Oh. 170 hippos are currently loose in Colombia. But Escobar brought in a bunch of hippos into his like ranch and since he has obviously passed away, they have, I guess just broken contain and they're kind of just running loose all over Colombia. And so the Colombian government is devoting, I believe, $2 million to trying to implement population Control measures such as confinement and relocation before. I think they're just going to have to kill them at some point if that doesn't work. Roughly 170 hippos are roaming freely in the country, according to a study published by Columbia's National University. So, yeah, they've just got hippos going around. Not the animal you want roaming your villages.

[A]

No, I would say. I would say, yeah, call them. I say kill the hippos.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They can't be there. They can't. Hippos can't be in Colombia. I'm sorry. I like you hippos. You got to go.

[C]

A top three most terrifying animal to.

[A]

To see great animals. Or if. If there's a hippo relocation program, like, get them over to Africa, put them in the rivers, their native territory. I. They can't. They can't be here. I'm sorry.

[C]

Like, if I saw a tiger, I would be terrified, but in the back of my mind, I'd be like, okay, it's a cat. Like, you can. You can get it to act like a cat under the right circumstances.

[A]

Mm.

[C]

Hippo's just gonna eat you. I'm saying there. There's a one. You know, sometimes you see the videos of the tigers, and they. They're, like, playing around with people and stuff. Not likely

[D]

in the wild.

[C]

No. But I'm just saying somewhere in there is. Is a house cat, you know, somewhere.

[D]

I don't think so. Dog.

[C]

But the hippo, they're.

[D]

I like the optimism in the life of that situation. You're like, hey, if I could just.

[C]

Yeah, we'll.

[B]

We'll.

[C]

We'll hang out. But the hippo, it's got nothing. Like, it's just ready to kill you.

[D]

Absolutely. I say hippo's probably number one. The second one to me is a bear.

[A]

Bear. Well, not all bears.

[D]

It's my. My. It's my. It's my number two.

[A]

That's true.

[D]

It's me. When I see a bear, I'm. That's. That's nothing. I don't like it.

[B]

Nope.

[D]

I. Scary as. I think the cat would be more scary, though, too, because cats are really unpredictable. And honestly, if house cats had the size of lions and tigers, they probably kill humans just as easy.

[A]

Yeah, I think.

[C]

I mean, most of them are.

[A]

I think the hippos need to be. Maybe just build a fence around them. Maybe just. Can't we just pin them in?

[C]

Well, I think they've gotten so loose that they're everywhere now.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Are they predatory like that? Are hippos like predators.

[A]

I don't know that they're predators, but they're getting into places that they.

[F]

They're.

[A]

They're finding themselves in situations where they're encountering people, and then they're liable to respond, like, defensively against people.

[D]

Sure. Okay. Yeah.

[A]

And that's bad.

[D]

Hippos ain't going extinct or anything?

[A]

No, I don't think so.

[D]

Yeah, just kill them. Whatever.

[A]

Just kill them or bring them or. Take him back. Why don't we just relocate them? It's not the hippos fault.

[C]

Pft. Since we've been recording, an article came out in the Financial Times that the. The PIF is on the verge of cutting its funding for Live.

[A]

So it is going to happen?

[C]

Seems that way.

[A]

Damn.

[F]

All right.

[A]

Poor went out for. Who's for John Rom. Poor went out for Bryson Brooks. No, Brooks is back at pga.

[E]

Phil Mickelson.

[A]

Pouring out for Phil, For Lefty Poor. One out for Dustin Johnson.

[C]

Cam Smith.

[A]

Cam Smith, all the four aces. It's a dark day.

[C]

So what happens?

[A]

It's a dark day in golf.

[C]

They gotta just let him back, right?

[A]

I mean, now the PGA is sitting pretty. Now the PGA can make him sing for their supper.

[D]

That's crazy, saying, for your supper.

[A]

Yeah, like, hey, you wanna. You want to come back? You want to come back? You want to play? You want to play at the Travelers? I need you to get a PGA tattoo over your heart. Show me some.

[C]

They can't just leave some of the most talented golfers in the world out there, like, in the wind.

[A]

I think they can.

[C]

I don't think so.

[A]

I think they've got a lot of leverage right now.

[C]

I don't think they definitely. They can. They can make them work for it, but I. They have to let them back.

[A]

Yeah, they. They'll give them a path to. To come back. I mean, you remember when Patrick Reed said that he was coming back and. And Brooks said that he was coming back to the pga? They. They set the deadlines. They're like, you got two weeks.

[C]

Right. But they're still now live.

[A]

Now the right. Which I'm saying the people that. That were on live had two weeks. They decided not to, and then live went out of business. And so now the PGA is like, hey, you kind of made your decision, so if you want to come back, the terms are going to be way, way less favorable to you than they were a month ago.

[D]

Yeah, I think it would be dope to. I don't think they should, but it'd be really dope to See him go through, like, Q school again or something like that. Just make them earn their PGA Tour card. Yeah, that would be. That would be. That'd be fun to watch. Municipal.

[C]

Aaron, I know you don't follow soccer, but one of the biggest clubs in the world is in serious, serious danger of getting relegated from the Premier League this year. And if it happens, like, they would be playing in the championship, which is the second division, in, like, one of the best stadiums in the world, they would have to sell their entire team. So that could be a similar circumstance to what you're talking about. Could be interesting.

[A]

What, What.

[C]

What's the Tottenham.

[D]

Wow. Never heard that word before.

[A]

The Tottenham Hotspur.

[C]

In England, they call the main teams the Big six. Tottenham's sixth on the list, but they're. They're one of the bigger clubs in the country and they're current. If the season ended today, they would get relegated.

[D]

Relegation. That's wild.

[A]

It'd be very funny if it happened. Very funny. What, What NFL team would you equate this to being relegated? It'd have to be a team that like Tottenham. The knock against them is they've. They've never won the epl, Right?

[C]

Yeah, they're. They're big in terms of name recognition, but they don't win anything. The Cowboys, I mean, the Cowboys have

[A]

won before, just back in the day.

[B]

The Bills.

[A]

Yeah, I was saying the Bills the other day, but no, because the. Because the Bills aren't like a massive market like Tottenham is, so it'd be like a huge market team.

[C]

The Raiders, like the Giants.

[A]

The Giants have won. Yeah. The Jets. Mo. The jets won. Yeah, I guess probably the jets, but Tottenham's been good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know that there is an NFL equivalent to it.

[C]

Giants might be Detroit, maybe. No, I think it's Jets. I think it's Jets. They're the second biggest team in their own city. Maybe third, as are the jets, the second rate team in New York. Huge. You know, huge media coverage. Huge. What?

[E]

Third in New York?

[C]

Oh, yeah. Well, second in New Jersey.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[C]

Yeah, it might be the Jets. Now. Tottenham has been more successful than the jets recently, but I think it would have to be the Jets. I know there's no way it could ever work, but I am fascinated by the idea of relegation in America.

[A]

Same.

[C]

I think college sports are the only ones where it could even be feasible.

[A]

But it's controlled by the. By the very powerful schools right now.

[C]

Right. College sports is a cartel that would never allow that to happen.

[A]

It would have to be A startup league.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Have to be like the PGA Tour kind of does relegation.

[C]

Yeah. But it's not the same.

[A]

It's not the same.

[C]

Like, it would be sick if Mississippi State went to the Sunbelt for a year because they, you know, you go, oh, and eight in the 09 in the SEC. You get. You got to go play here in the Sunbelt.

[D]

And then that's actually interesting little like you give conferences a chance to play your way into the sec. I don't hate that.

[A]

Yeah, dude, we would. We want Bama. We'd up Bama. I kind of like, I kind of love that revenge game. Billy Napier against Florida and the Swamp.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

In the Swamp. I know. They might have to come to the Berg. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. That was a card.

[A]

Yeah. It's better than the Hairy.

[C]

People have had some interesting concepts around relegation in college football. It would just the people who make the decisions are the schools that make money and they would never sign up to make less money. So it'll never happen.

[A]

But in, in theory it could happen. Do. Do you think that something's going to change and. And Tottenham's going to figure it out? Like, is there too much at stake for them?

[C]

No, I think that. I think they're going to get relegated because someone, one of the, the soccer commentators was pointing out, like if you're a player on Wolverhampton or because they're. They're in last place right now. Like most of those players don't have relegation clauses. Like they're on the team next year regardless, so they have no incentive to lose.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

All of the players on Tottenham for the most part have clauses in their contract that if Tottenham gets relegated.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

You automatically free agent. Yes. So they, it's better for them to just lose and then they can go to a better team next year and then Tottenham's left with. They have to get a whole new team for the championship and they have no money.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

So for the players don't care. They're not trying to. I mean, I'm sure they're doing their best but like if they lose, they don't care what.

[A]

What Americans have. Have money invested in Tottenham.

[C]

Dave Portnoy, He's a fan.

[A]

He is a fan. Yeah.

[D]

He be hype maxing too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we do.

[C]

Tottenham Hotspur owners enic, controlled by the Lewis family trust, have rejected multiple takeover bids, including a rumored 4.5 billion pound offer from a US led consortium fronted by Brooklyn Eric. So they might not have any. Any us.

[A]

Are they being tanked? Is this an inside job?

[C]

I doubt It. Because they're still paying off their stadium.

[A]

Right. But if you were to, in theory, if you were to tank the team, make them go, get relegated to the championship, then the price, the equity of the team, like the value of the team is drastically reduced.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah, especially, especially if your players have clauses that say that they can all become free agents.

[D]

Right?

[C]

Yes. For those who don't know, like, if you get relegated the championship, you get far less TV revenue. Ticket everything. Like you're. It's a, it's a financial nightmare.

[A]

And then there's a US led consortium that comes in and they buy the team.

[C]

But why would the owners want to sell it at a lower valuation?

[A]

I don't know. Because they're there.

[C]

That doesn't make it.

[A]

Because they're worried about losing more money.

[C]

But if they wanted to do that, they would sell it right now before

[A]

the possibility of them getting. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, it's not unheard of in business practices to try to buy something from a desperate owner.

[C]

I think it'd be fun to watch. Granted, they wouldn't be. They would get worse, probably because they would have to sell off their team to pay down debts and get other players. But, like, they would still kick the shit out of most of the teams in the championship.

[A]

Now, see, that's a documentary I would watch. Like, welcome to Wrexham.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Except it's about like the opposite.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A massive club going through like dog shit times.

[C]

Yeah, well, there was. Did you watch the Sunderland one on Netflix?

[A]

No.

[C]

So they're back in the Premier League now, but for years they, they went down several leagues and they were like a big club and Netflix did a thing on them five, ten years ago now. Maybe it's very good. It was, it was before welcome to Wrexham. But they're back in the Premier League now after many years of toiling in, in the lower levels.

[A]

So what do we think is going to happen with, with Liv? I don't know that I. I think I like what Big T's saying. I think that you have to earn your spot back.

[C]

I mean, how many emergency meetings have ever gone well?

[A]

Right?

[D]

Well, what if. What if this was Trump's whole plan the whole time and it was just to. Just to get the DJs war back together. His whole, his whole Iran war move was just to get to live out of paint.

[C]

I told Cam Smith, I said, we're going to get you back. He's a great golfer. Beautiful golfer.

[D]

By any means necessary.

[A]

Great man said that. Guess we'll see all right, what else we got in the news?

[C]

That's most of it.

[A]

There's one other item.

[C]

Oh, the. Well, I know you're. You're out on this. You think this isn't happening. There's another guy that disappeared.

[A]

There is? Yeah.

[C]

And this was back. Apparently this happened last year. I don't know why it's in the news now.

[A]

I'll tell you why it's in the

[C]

news now, big T. Because you're okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me.

[A]

So the headline that we see on the Daily Mail. Shout out the Daily Mail. Missing Nuclear official becomes 10th person tied to dark pattern surrounding US secrets.

[C]

Which is true.

[A]

There is a new hack amongst. Amongst news organizations out there and tabloid publications. It's a new way to ensure clicks on a story. It's called smart person dies.

[C]

There have been a lot of them.

[A]

Makes you think.

[C]

Did you see when he was last seen?

[A]

This guy was last seen walking away from the facility or walking away from his. His house in Albuquerque on foot, Aug. 28, 2025, carrying a handgun.

[C]

Nothing but a gun.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

Never came back.

[A]

Never came. I. Not to be morbid, I feel like that is. That happens from time to time.

[C]

It could. But then that leads you to ask why right there.

[A]

Every time somebody that is. That is smart dies in America now, there's going to be a headline being like, another scientist died. What's going on? What's. What's going on?

[C]

These guys have had connections to laboratories and defense contractors and interesting stuff. Nuclear stuff.

[F]

Right.

[A]

This guy was a government contractor working for the Kansas City National Security Campus,

[C]

which I believe is in Albuquerque.

[A]

Yeah. But. Yeah, anytime somebody dies now, it's going to be like a smart person. We lost another nerd. In times. In times are coming.

[C]

Listen, enjoy. Enjoy what? The government's spoon feeding you. I'm sure they always tell the truth. Right.

[A]

What is the government I.

[C]

That nothing's going on.

[A]

I have not been.

[C]

And listen, I'm a nothing ever happens guy. I. I get it for the most part.

[A]

What has the government spoon fed me on this one?

[C]

Well, just that it's. It's fine. That's just random. The government killed themselves.

[A]

The government has not told me that anything's random. The government has not addressed the ongoing epidemic of scientists dying.

[C]

Correct. Yeah, they're. They're removing themselves.

[A]

The only people that have addressed the scientists dying have been like police departments. You are investigated and then they tell you the result of their investigation.

[C]

You're taking the absence of evidence as evidence of abscess absence.

[A]

You Are taking the absence of evidence as evidence of a massive conspiracy?

[C]

No, I don't. I'm not saying I believe this. I'm just saying it's. It's odd.

[A]

But you know what I'm saying. It's like the Daily Mail, the New York Post. Now, anytime I read one the other day.

[C]

You have closed yourself off to the possibility that something is going on. I have not.

[A]

I mean, I think a lot of stuff's going on. I. I read an article or it was a. It was a tweet the other day about another scientist that died. So then I looked more into it, and it was a guy that died like three years ago.

[C]

Well, we're just now catching on.

[A]

And then they just wrote a new story.

[C]

They can't kill them all at once, Eric.

[A]

They wrote a new story as if it happened yesterday. It's like, wait, this news.

[C]

Because we're putting the pieces together, right?

[A]

Right. We're going back and retroactively. Like, what did we miss the first.

[C]

Oh, sorry. Watergate happened three weeks ago. We can't report on it. Sorry.

[D]

What's step two? Step one's killing.

[C]

I don't know. That's the thing. I don't know yet.

[A]

They're getting too close to the truth.

[C]

Yeah,

[A]

yeah, yeah.

[C]

Who knows?

[A]

We're getting too close to the truth. And so if you're a scientist, like, just watch your back, please do. Scientists might be putting all this. All this propaganda out there too, because, like, what better way to make people respect the work that you're doing? Because a lot of people have been down on science recently. But what better way to make people have your back than to act like you're an endangered species?

[C]

Now, see, I'm open to this possibility as well. This could be big psi.

[A]

It could be big psi. Being a scientist is the most dangerous job in America.

[F]

Go.

[A]

Do we have flags? Do we have any of the, like, you know, the thin blue line, the thin red line? Do we have any flags for scientists?

[C]

What should it be?

[A]

I think just glasses on the stars.

[C]

I was going to say a beaker.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

Beaker instead of stars.

[C]

50 beakers.

[A]

50 beakers. Yeah. All right, what else we got today?

[C]

I think that's all I had. We got Ben McKenzie coming up.

[A]

We do have been.

[C]

Good interview.

[A]

Interesting fellow and his buddy, his buddy Dave. Shout out Dave, who's also in the movie with him. Aaron, you got anything you want to get? Oh, I. I do have one more thing.

[D]

Shoot.

[A]

Aaron, you're going to be interested in this. I. I think Yesterday I learned about a thing in Australia that maybe the first thing that I've heard about in Australia that will not kill you. It's actually something that sounds awesome. It is a golf course that runs across the entire southern coast of Australia. It's called the Nullarbor Links.

[B]

The what?

[A]

Nullarbor Links.

[D]

Nullabor.

[A]

Nullabor. N U L L Nullabor. A B O R Nullabor Links. So it is a golf course that is, I think it's like 1300 kilometers and 850 miles. Whichever way you want to, you want to go with it. But it's not like the entire course is that long. It's just, it's a highway that runs through the middle of nowhere going across the southern coast of Australia and it goes through the outback. And it's a series of towns that are along this highway. And each town has its own hole. So like summer par fives, like 500 yards, summer par three is 170 yards, but it's 18 different towns. It would take you three to five days to drive the entire length of the highway. And you play one hole in each town that you stop through. It's pretty cool.

[D]

Just as like a destination if you're visiting Australia.

[A]

It's a way to, to break up the monotony of what could be just like a long road trip filled with nothing. It's like, yeah, we, God, we have, we have a golf, we have one golf hole in each of these towns. Yeah, that's pretty, it's pretty cool.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

I, I, I'm not saying that I would like to go to Australia and then play the Nullarbor Links because that would be like a day and a half traveling down there. And then you'd have to go to like the middle of nowhere. Maybe not that, but I think the United States should do one of these across our, our great country.

[D]

That would be dope actually.

[A]

And so there's a couple different highways I thought about. One would be Route 66.

[D]

That's like the most famous, oldest.

[A]

Yeah. If you did, if you did a highway of 18 golf holes across Route 66, that would be awesome. The other one would be I10. So if you go all the way from Jacksonville, you go along the Gulf coast, go through New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Houston, San Antonio, El Paso. I think that probably takes you through, take you through Albuquerque, Albuquerque, Phoenix, Los Angeles. Like you could probably have a pretty sick ass 18 holes along that route. Right.

[B]

That'd be dope.

[D]

That you could do i5 too. All the way up the coast all the way to coast of California, all the way up to Washington.

[A]

True. So with. With the old Route 66, I'm looking at it right now. It starts right here in Chicago. We could get to where you think if we built, like, the first hole in Chicago, if that would start the movement and then maybe some. I don't know, maybe it looks like it might go through Springfield, Illinois. St. Louis is right there. You think there'd be. That would start the movement. Like, be the change we want to see in the world?

[D]

That would be, I think, because golf is taking off now. So that would be a dope little project for community building.

[A]

Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. I think we could probably. We could probably do this, but how do we coordinate it? I don't know.

[D]

That's tough.

[C]

It's a lot of driving people to agree on stuff.

[A]

It'd be a lot of driving, but I feel like people would do it. I just need to talk to somebody that's got land in illinois along Route 66, and maybe we can get to

[D]

work on this, say, lo me, like, 300 yards.

[A]

Right. For a par four.

[D]

Right.

[A]

I mean, how much could it possibly cost to. To keep one golf hole in shape, like, year round?

[D]

They said it would have to be, like, communally. The maintenance would be. Would be communal.

[A]

Set up a mowing schedule. Yeah. How much does a. A lawn, like a golf course, lawn mower cost? That's really the main expense.

[D]

It's the watering, I thought, too. Watering.

[A]

Yeah. I think we would have to have people hit off mats. Right. Yeah, it's really.

[D]

Yeah. Because upkeep on a tee box would get. It's too. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So you'd have to hit off the mats, and then we just need to keep up the greens and. And a fairway, maybe have one bunker as well.

[D]

It would be dope. I'm. I'm on board. Speaking of which, I shot a 77 yesterday.

[A]

Pretty impressive.

[D]

Yeah, man. Golf game's trending up, though.

[A]

Pretty impressive, Aaron.

[C]

Congrats.

[D]

Handicap. Thanks, brother. Handicap is now 6.6.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

We need to add a 10 to that 6.

[D]

7.

[A]

Oh, I thought you were doing a 666.

[C]

That would be 100.

[A]

Yep. That's true.

[D]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited about the golf game, man. I have a game today, actually, and then next week I have the tournament again with the pro.

[C]

Where is that one?

[D]

I'm placing in that. This is. It's at PGA national in Florida.

[F]

Nice.

[D]

Yeah. It should be.

[F]

Should be fun.

[A]

I'VE got the, the handicap police on my ass on my bumper.

[E]

About your 110.

[A]

Well, yeah, no, Some people have taken to looking up my publicly available handicapped, which is available online, and completely ignoring the fact that at the start of this whole thing, I was discussing how right now my handicap on the Ghin app is different from my handicap on 18 birdies, which is actually, which is actually below 18 on 18 birdies. But I acknowledge that 18 birdies handicap is not 100% legit. I've just had to play a couple courses that have been outside the scoring season on the Ghin, so I could only log them on the 18birdies app. So I was saying somewhere in between is probably a fair representation of what my handicap is.

[D]

I think the handicap is widely misunderstood. I agree. I think if people think you're a certain handicap, then you're supposed to shoot like that over par every, every single time. And that's not, that's not what a handicap is. It's, it's like, it's like an accumulative. It's like a formula. Like accumulate like your, your 20 rounds. 20 rounds and whatever, whatever that is. Like, you're only supposed to shoot your candy handicap. From my understanding, you're only supposed to shoot your handicap like once every 20 rounds.

[A]

Right?

[D]

And, and, and I think people like, if you hear somebody's like a single digit or whatever the case would be, you're supposed to shoot all that. No, that's not, that's not what, I

[A]

don't know that it's like one out of 20 rounds, but I have heard that like, I think it's like 20 of the time. Yeah, 20 of the time you would shoot what? So if my handicap's 18, that means that 20 of the time I'm gonna shoot a 90. And my, my normal rounds are mostly going to be in the mid-90s, which is where they are. And then sometimes I'll play Spyglass and I'll shoot a 113 and I'll have four double transfusions on the back nine and just kind of give up that sometimes that happens. And that's, that's the beauty of the handicap system.

[D]

I recently got introduced to transfusions. Hell of a drink.

[A]

Very good drink.

[D]

Never, never drank it before. It was in the last tournament and the, the last day. If you don't make the cut, they put you in a scramble for money and had a transfusion. I was like, this is where it's at.

[C]

Have you heard of a water hazard that's the new one that's taken.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

The Internet by saying it's vodka blue Powerade or Gatorade. Gatorade. A little bit of lemonade and a little bit of Sprite.

[D]

That sounds fire. Actually, water hazard. All right, I'm gonna try that one out.

[A]

There's also one other bit of news today. I don't know if I want to cover it or not. Allegations of two pilots meowing and barking at each other.

[C]

I just saw this since we've been recording at.

[A]

At Reagan national airport in Washington, D.C. sometime. Sometimes. Sometimes you just got to, like, have some fun.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, like, are pilots not supposed to joke around?

[C]

No. Yeah, correct. Actually, they're not.

[A]

Like, what's the worst thing that could happen at Reagan Airport if a pilot's not paying attention?

[C]

Was that was that word?

[A]

That's where the. Yeah. The crash was.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or as Hank would say, Regan National Airport. So you say that he thought that Ronald Reagan was. Yeah, Ronald Reagan. It's okay. Whatever that means that he's learned that word by reading it. Which actually is a feather in his cap. Okay, well, that does it for macrodosing today.

[C]

Well, we have an interview.

[A]

Yeah, we have an interview coming up with Ben McKenzie. Everyone is lying to you for money is the name of his film. And his friend Dave, he's going to join us as well. Before we get to this interview, it's brought to you by Stella Blue Coffee. It's more than just great coffee. It's coffee with a purpose. I've got my still blue right here. I drank it during the interview with Ben. It's delicious. I had the Espresso Sweet cream today. And they've got a new initiative, We Brew to Rescue. It's a nationwide campaign using proceeds from our new Ready to drink cans just like this one to fund a thousand pet adoptions. Every year you crack open and or every candy you crack open helps a real pet find a real home. It's that simple. Made with 100% Colombian coffee, each 11 ounce can delivers smooth, drinkable energy. It's got a boost of protein. Available in Espresso Cafe mocha and Espresso sweet cream. Built for mornings, long days and everything in between. Drink Stella Blue. Fuel your day. Help save a pet's life. You can follow our progress throughout the campaign by watching the adoption tracker right on our site. Grab [e-mail] it's also available at Amazon and select retailers nationwide. And now here is Ben McKenzie and Dave. Okay, we welcome on a very special guest actually two very special guests of macrodosing. It's Ben McKenzie. You might recognize him as the guy from Gotham and then his good friend Dave. Dave's also in the movie that Ben just put out. It's called Everyone is lying to you for Money. It's about crypto. It's about his journey through the crypto underbelly, and I guess the overbelly like some mainstream stuff in there, but they join macrodosunday talk about the film and. Fellas, it's good to see you guys.

[B]

Hey, good to be here.

[F]

Good to be here. Thanks for having me.

[A]

I tried to make it a point to not introduce you, Ben, as the guy from the O.C.

[B]

dude, you nailed it. I mean, until now.

[A]

Until now. Yeah, we'll, we'll delete this part. But, but yeah, I I so I watched the movie last night. Big T. Seen it as well. Arian, I don't know if you had a chance to, to take a look at the screener for it, but I really enjoyed it. I thought it was, I thought it was really well done, well put together, made a lot of sense. It kind of echoed a lot of things that I've been feeling about the crypto space for the last, what, like, 10, 12 years? I I It's, it's a really interesting topic because the more you learn about it, it almost feels like the dumber you feel like it, it becomes so, so convoluted, I think intentionally so, in a lot of the crypto space. But you present it in a way that's pretty easy to, to parse and understand. You talk to some of the big players in the industry. So I guess let's, let's go to the big beginning, and maybe you can explain to us, to our audience, why you decided to really investigate cryptocurrency and the people that are involved in it.

[B]

Yeah, well, it started with Dave. Dave came to me. Dave, you can jump in anytime you want, buddy. I'm going to tell my version of the story, and then I want you to tell your version. All right?

[D]

All right.

[B]

So 2020, the pandemic hits. And Dave comes to me. He's like, you got to buy bitcoin, dude. And I was like, what is it? And I don't remember exactly what you said.

[F]

I'm pretty sure it's like, I don't know.

[B]

Okay, all right, fair. Then I'm like, why are you putting your money into it? It's like it's going up. I I It was, it was going up. The celebrities were selling it But Dave and I have a history. And Dave, do you want to tell the story?

[F]

Sure. Ben loves to say that I gave him the worst financial advice of his life.

[B]

All right, that's overblown. You're right.

[A]

It's a little overblown.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[F]

You took a tip, a stock tip, from a kid who was a struggling actor living in your basement, essentially.

[A]

In my guest house.

[B]

Not my basement.

[C]

I'm not tortured.

[F]

In your guest house. In your guest house.

[C]

Jesus.

[F]

Yeah, so there was a stock. I had met a guy at a wedding. It was called Oxygen Biotherapeutics.

[B]

Don't say the name of the stock, dude.

[A]

Oh, well, okay, Sorry.

[B]

All right, all right.

[F]

I'm not media trained, guys. I apologize. But, you know, it's not like I presented a 10k. I didn't do a balance sheet review. You know, none of that. It was just, hey, this kid knew the CEO. They said they were going to get some government contracts, and it was gonna. It was gonna blow up. And so I said, hey, Ben, do you want in? Now's the time to get in. Didn't come to fruition. And Ben has never let me hear the end of it.

[B]

We lost money.

[F]

You lost money. I didn't have money to lose. I lost a little bit.

[B]

You put money into it.

[F]

Yeah, but not O.C. money.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

All right. All right.

[B]

But relative to your net worth. Might actually been more.

[C]

Sure.

[F]

It was. It was. Yeah. Percentage basis. Yes, absolutely.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, my takeaway from this is that I love Dave. I do love you. He. He and I have been buddies since college. We went to University of Virginia together. But also, I wasn't necessarily going to take financial advice from. From you, Dave.

[F]

And so that's financial advice, but fair enough.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[F]

I mean, you could have talked to your business manager.

[B]

It's true. My business manager was like, what are you doing? So anyway, Dave came back to me in 2020 and was like, you should buy bitcoin and that kind of. I have a degree in economics from uva, and I hadn't used it in showbiz because nobody wants to hear about the dismal science over the craft service table. But I was excited to or fascinated by it. You know, I just couldn't, like, stop looking at it. I also love true crime. I'm a big, like, true crime guy. I love what I call stupid crime, where, like, the criminals are sort of obviously committing the crimes and, like, turning on each other, sort of Coen brothers esque crime and crypto seemed to Have a lot of that. So I started looking into it. Ended up, decided I wanted to write a book. Weirdly, I decided to run a book book first instead of a movie. Reached out to a journalist, pitched him on the idea. We started reporting on it. And I turned a camera on in the middle of writing this book and just documented all the crazy stuff that I saw.

[A]

Okay, is it. Have you had anybody come up to you and be like, you know, I like the book better than the movie?

[B]

Nah, no one has said that yet. I'm sure I will get that. You know, book did pretty well. It was, it was a New York Times bestseller, wasn't it, Dave?

[A]

I don't remember.

[F]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Anyway, it was it. The book did great. And then the movie is fun. The movie's like much more. I could really dork out in the book. It's like a 300 page book about economics and, and stuff. So I could really dork out there. The movie is popular entertainment. It's sort of like a comedy about how stupid all this stuff is. So, you know, a tight hour and a half. I think it's pretty funny. Dave's hilarious in it and my more famous wife is in it. Marina Backron from Sheriff country and Deadpool and Gotham and other things. And even Jerry Butler did a cameo for me, which was nice. So, yeah, it's a fun movie. I hope, I hope people like it. They have been liking it. I hope they continue to like it.

[A]

You had some really interesting interviews. You got access to Sam Bankman fried from ftx, rocking the risk management shirt right now. I like. That's a, that's a great shirt. I don't know how much you had to pay for that one on ebay or if that's like a one of one that you made yourself, but that's a, that's a quality shirt. But you, you got, you got an interview with Sam Bankman freed before he, you know, was convicted and went to prison, all that stuff. How did you get that interview? It says in the movie that you just DM'd him. Why? Why do you think he wanted to talk to you?

[B]

Yeah, I couldn't figure that for the longest time because it wasn't like we were hiding the ball. He agreed almost immediately with no preconditions to like a sit down interview on camera. This guy who's supposedly like a billionaire, like that never happens. And, and Jacob Silverman wrote the book with me. We were very obviously critical of the industry. We, in our Twitter bios, it said writing a book about Crypto and fraud.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so like, why was he gonna talk to us? I couldn't figure it out. I only sort of now understand it as. Or. My guess is obviously, I don't know what's in his head or was in his head, but I, I studied up on the psychology of fraudsters and talked to this guy, Dan Davis, who wrote a great book called Lying for Money, about how frauds work and how fraudsters think. And one of the things that he pointed out is that fraudsters, they're sort of like method actors. They consider themselves legitimate businessmen. They really. And they often start out that way, like Bernie Madoff, legitimate businessman, until he started an investment firm and he started stealing people's money. And Sam started off as like, you know, he was at Jane street, this crypto or this Wall street firm, you know, ostensibly this like genius billionaire guy. I think I. In fact, according to his public statements, he still believes he's innocent. He still says, oh, no, no, no, we, we weren't insolvent. We just didn't have the money at the time. Which begs the question, does he understand the word insolvency? Yeah, but he, he's, he thinks he's innocent. And so he was like, happy to talk to me. I don't think it went that well for him, but I guess I'll let the, the audience be the judge.

[A]

Yeah, he seemed, he seemed extremely nervous and that might just be how he operates on a, a day to day basis, but he seemed like he was, he just didn't, he wasn't ready to answer any question. He was, he was like scared of the questions that were being and asked. So while I was watching, I was like, why? What was the reason that this guy had, like, did he think that this was going to be the PR hit for him to dig, like to start digging his way out of this hole that he's created for himself. But so in addition to sbf, you talk to a lot of people. I got kind of a big picture question for you. The name of the movie. Everyone's lying to you for money. Do you think that everything involved in the crypto space is ultimately fraudulent?

[D]

No.

[B]

There's also crime. There's a lot of crime. It's everything from money laundering, tax evasion, sanctions evasion, child sexual abuse material. You know, we found out in the recent Epstein files that Jeffrey Epstein was a secret funder of Bitcoin core development through the MIT Media Lab, which is the group of programmers that maintain Bitcoin's operating system. So from this is 2015. So a long time ago, before 90% of the guys who are into bitcoin now even knew it existed. So I think we need to grapple with that and we need to ask the question of, is it worth it? Because there's a lot of criminal activity. To give you a sense of the size, a crypto company estimated last year that $154 billion of illicit activity, criminal activity, was financed, facilitated by cryptocurrency. That's 154 billion in one year alone. And that's an estimate from a crypto company. So I'm going to guess that's probably on the low end of the estimation. It's a lot of. It's a lot of crime. So there's crime and then there's speculation, betting the crypto is going to go up or down. And that's what I would characterize as

[A]

gambling in the film. And I feel kind of stupid that I'd never really, like, put this together. You make the claim that a lot of crypto's increase in value has come from people that are invested in crypto, then buying their own crypto at higher prices, driving the price up. Like I had always seen the, the. The speculative aspect being like people who are crypto evangelists, as they call themselves, wanting to generate a lot of interest out in, in the public that maybe have not heard of whatever coin they're trying to hawk. And then just by, like pumping that up, then they get out later like a more traditional pump and dump. But you make the claim that I think 90 to 95% of crypto value. I'm not sure if you said crypto or bitcoin, so maybe you can, you can help me out on that 1. But 90 to 95% of that value increase has come from people that already own the coin, buying their own coin to drive the price up at higher. At higher prices.

[B]

I made that claim. Or somebody else in the movie made that claim. I don't remember making that claim. Are you talking about the guy, Alex Mashinsky, who said only 10% of the money in crypto is real? Are you talking about that?

[A]

It might have been, yeah. I'm not sure if you, if you made the claim directly, but in the movie there was like a.90% of the value has come from the speculation of people that are pumping their own money. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I don't, I don't remember saying that, but in the movie, I do interview this guy, Alex Mashinsky, who was running a firm called Celsius. I'm drinking a Celsius in his honor. Not the same company. He was running a crypto company, and he's now in jail. He was running a Ponzi scheme. And Alex said to me that only 10 of the money in crypto is real, that the rest is speculation. So that was a claim by a guy who's now in jail for doing what he said other people are doing.

[A]

So kind of, kind of, kind of shocking that somebody that was like, invested in that much would say that, right? Like, I, I don't.

[B]

He was.

[A]

If anything, I think that makes the claim more believable that this guy is

[B]

saying, agreed, agreed, agreed. And then I asked Sam Bankman Fried about that, that I was like, Alex said, 10 to 15% is real. And he was like, yeah, it sounds about right. And I, I was like, look, we all know that, like, that, like, markets are not perfectly liquid, right? Like, the stock market's not perfectly liquid. You couldn't sell. You know, I don't know how much Apple is worth collectively, but you can't sell hundreds of billions of dollars worth of stock in a single day, right? So we know there is a certain amount of, like, it's speculation, it's leverage, it's people borrowing money in order to invest. It's just that crypto takes this to a whole other degree. They were offering retail traders, regular guys, on the biggest exchange, binance. They were offering them 125 to one leverage, meaning for every dollar you're gambling, you're borrowing 125, which sounds awesome when it's going up. You're making so much money, at least on the screen, but it goes down, you lose it just as fast, and you're just like, immediately liquidated. There's no margin call. And, you know, in my experience, and, and in terms of, like, looking at the facts, sure, some guys are going to win at this game, but most of them are going to lose. It's like playing at an unregulated and licensed casino. You know what I mean? Like, you're gonna. Even when you win, sometimes you lose because you take your chips to the, to the teller to cash out into real money. And the teller windows closed. You know, that happens in crypto all the time. The exchanges shut down and you just can't get your money out.

[A]

Right. It also seems to me like this industry, more so than almost any other, has a big time. I'm trying to think of the right word for. I've always called it like the, the hit by a bus risk. So, like, if you Got one person that's, that's super important to their company and then if that person is just like going out for lunch and, and they get into a car accident, then what happens to that company? It seems like a lot of the major players in crypto and it has been for some time now they have that at risk where it's like if the head of whatever project this is, if something happens to them, if they die or if they just like drop off the grid entirely, the whole thing is, and every investor that's, that's put money into it is ultimately going to be out of luck. Is that something that you've, you've also noticed as you've been doing these interviews?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. A lot of these companies are actually very small. You know, Sam's company was, was quite small. It was just him and a bunch of other young 20 something year olds in the Bahamas. And yeah, to give you a sense of how like sloppily run these companies are, I mean FTX was like lying. I was like the, one of the largest crypto companies out there when I interviewed sand in 2022. And yet we learned in the bankrupt or in the, the legal proceedings against him in the bankruptcy proceedings that they were running their accounting software. They were running their accounting on QuickBooks. Like they didn't have like professional like shit that I would do you know what I mean? Or like some tiny small company would use. No offense to QuickBooks, but like they didn't. I don't think they had an HR department. I don't think that like they didn't. It just wasn't a well run thing. They had a trading firm called Alameda Research as well as an exchange, ftx. They were operating on the same floor in this building in the Bahamas. And Sam's quote unquote ex girlfriend was running the trading firm and Sam was running the exchange. And it's like, dude, you know, come on, that's such an obvious conflict of interest that wouldn't be allowed in a regulated market.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Big T, what do you have?

[C]

Yeah, so Ben, we have a number of, of crypto guys that work here and I was talking to one of them yesterday and I told him we were interviewing you and about the movie and everything and his, he was like, oh well, I'm sure this guy knows more than every bank in the world or something. And but his, I would say he's very fanatical about crypto, but I don't find that attitude, the people you talk to in the movie and just people I encounter, I think that's pretty common. I think, like everybody that is in on crypto, it's like their main number one thing in their life. I don't find there to be many casual crypto enthusiasts. Why do you think that is? Why do you think in order to be a crypto guy, like, you have to be so all in on it?

[B]

Yeah, I think there was a moment in 2021, 2022, when the celebrities were hawking it and a lot of regular people didn't really know what it was, but they saw ads for it constantly and they put money on it. Most of them lost that money or less a fraction, a significant percentage of that money. And so a lot of those people have left. But what's left is the hardcore group of guys who really, really believe in it and often have a lot invested in it, not just financially, but psychologically. And it to them it is. You know, I interviewed victims of the Celsius scam and I'm just trying to understand these guys and like, relate to them. And I do. I talked to a guy who, who was working construction in Texas, the state I grew up in, and I asked him why I put money into Celsius. He was like, I just wanted to make a little extra money so I could spend more time with my daughter. And I felt that when I lost the money, like, I felt like I let her down and like, he's crying, I'm crying, you're crying, everybody's crying. I, I care about these guys. I'm actually on their side. They may not be able to see it. That's okay. But I then go at the end of the movie to ask all these same guys, do you still believe in cryptocurrency even though you've lost all this money in Celsius? Every single one of them said, yes. Like, I didn't have to edit it. It's all, yes, it's all like, no. I think the more they lose, the more they have to believe. And I'm sure a lot of the guys who believe in it have won because they bought it way early. But if you, if your argument is, well, it's not a Ponzi scheme, because if you bought in early, you would have done well. That's a feature of a Ponzi scheme. That's how Ponzi schemes work, right? That's how a multi level marketing scheme works. It's a pyramid scheme. The people at the top start. If you get in early, you're making money off all the people below you. That's a pyramid. So the most, the largest number of people are at the bottom, and those people lose. So to your friend's point, like. Oh, sorry.

[C]

Oh, well, no, no, I was just going to say that was going to be part of my next question, which is like the crypto lovers tout all these use cases for it that never seemed to come to fruition, and it just kind of exists as a commodity and it floats up and down. It's been up at 100 bitcoins, been 100 grand, it's been at 25. Whatever. So. So whatever constitutes anyone being right or wrong about Bitcoin, as long as it just kind of exists as a stock? More or less.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I don't, you know, I'm not trying to put like a moral judgment on it other than I would say the money that the retail public puts into this provides the liquidity for the thing to be worth something, which gives it value to criminals so that they can use it to commit crimes or to get paid for committing crimes. So I do think people that invest in crypto should consider some of, you know, like, you can't just hand wave away all the crime and say, oh, well, you know, there's a lot of crime in the regulated market and the dollar is used for crime. Like, yes, I. Obviously. But come on, man, like, what are we talking about? Because it's hard to use crypto for good. You can, it's a tool. So, like, I heard about a woman in Afghanistan, she can't get banking under the Taliban because she's a woman. So she's paying her employees, she's running a business, she's paying them in crypto. Like, cool, great, that's good. We like that.

[F]

Right?

[B]

But then if you're going to take that, you have to accept all the bad stuff too, if you're being intellectually honest about the whole thing. So I just have found in my experience that most people are going to. Most people lose money and some people lose everything. And it's far more useful for crime than it is for, you know, doing good.

[A]

Aaron, what do you got? Do you find?

[D]

I mean, you kind of answered this, but, like, because what I always viewed it as, I, I was. This is a. I don't say anti crypto, but we never bought it. Like, we was always skeptical about it from its inception. I just don't find any currency that is so flimsy that can go up and down, that could be useful in, in an everyday market to the average, you know, worker. But what I did find interesting was the technology behind it.

[A]

Right.

[D]

And I don't know enough about that technology to know if it's good or bad. But the encryption, to me, I feel like there is some kind of utility in that in the future. I don't know if that is, you know, usable in our markets. Right. But I mean, do you guys find any kind of like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I'd like to talk about the technology because I think people, the advocates will talk about blockchain, you know, and. And 90% of the people, actually a lot of the guys who, who sell it, who are selling it don't understand it, in my opinion. But like, definitely people in. In the regular public don't understand what blockchain is. So blockchain is just a. It's a ledger, just a way of recording transactions. And what's neat about it is you. You're obscuring your identity when you're. When you're transacting. So it's a pseudonymous ledger. Not anonymous, but pseudonymous. You don't know which wallets, they call them wallets. These accounts are interacting on the blockchain. So cool. That's kind of interesting. But blockchain, you'll notice, is not used by really any businesses outside of the cryptocurrency industry. It's very hard to find businesses to use blockchain. And the reason is it sucks.

[F]

It sucks.

[B]

A bad. It's bad tech. It's been around for 35 years. It goes back to 1991. Stuart Haber and Scott Stornetta working at Bell Labs, building off the work of cryptographers like David Chong, who I interviewed for the book. And, you know, it's kind of a neat thing. But to give you a. A sense of the limitations of blockchain, Bitcoin can only process five to seven transactions. A second Visa can do 24,000. Bitcoin cannot scale as a payments method because of the tech, because of the way this thing called a consensus algorithm works inside of Bitcoin. You can build systems on top of Bitcoin to make the thing go faster. But then you're violating the purity of the blockchain. Right, or the purity of bitcoin. So even Sam Bankman fried, when I interviewed him, admitted that bitcoin was never going to work as a global payment system. So the tech. What. So blockchain is building off a thing that is actually useful, which is public key encryption. Public key encryption allows you to buy stuff online and not have your credit card information hacked. It's obscuring the identity of, like, who you're sending your money to, that's running through a bank. Right. But it's not a pseudonymous ledger. Like inside, you get a bill from your credit card company saying what you bought, and on the. On the other side, you know, the merchant has a similar record of the transaction. So public key encryption is vital to. To our modern economy. But public key encryption has been around since the 1970s and is used in everything or so many things. And blockchain really isn't. So the tech story, to me. I'm sorry, it's. I. In my opinion. Sorry. I don't know if I can curse.

[A]

Yeah, you can say whatever.

[B]

Yeah, awesome. Sweet. Oh, man, this is going to change everything. Finally, I can talk about my favorite cryptocurrency come rocket.

[A]

Oh, yeah, there was a come over.

[C]

We were almost investors years ago. Remember we did an episode on crypto years and years ago, and we found the rocket and we tried to invest, but like, the. The website to buy it was super convoluted and I don't think we ended up doing it, but.

[B]

Dude, should have gone in. It was squirting to the moon.

[A]

It was. Yeah, it was up there. Now it's at zero now. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So.

[A]

So here's a.

[D]

Here's another question that I have. It's probably pretty easy to answer, but I just want to get your take on it is if the technology isn't all that unique, isn't all that usable,

[A]

what prompted the boom?

[D]

Yeah, like, what was it that made everybody go crazy for this?

[B]

Because it's like a story as old as time. It's a get rich quick scheme. I mean, at least by the time it entered the public in 2021, when, you know, Dave and I were talking, it was like all the celebrities were selling it. You know, it was the most famous people on earth telling you, you should buy this stuff. It was Matt Damon saying, what are you a buy crypto? You know, like it was really right. Fortune favors the brave. You know, like you don't you want to be like Marco Polo? Or you remember that commercial with all this grandiose stuff, like, don't you want to be like an astronaut? Go gamble on some crypto. And the ads were everywhere. That was that super bowl that had all the crypto ads everywhere. So I think it was really that story, Ari. And I think that's the essence of it, is YouTube can get rich quick for free. And they just changed the terms around and kind of cloaked it in the story of technology. That nobody could really define because, like, you know, these guys are not cryptographers, right? They're like regular guys putting money into something, hoping to make money off of it. Good, Great. Awesome. I don't have any problem with that. I'm just trying to make sure investors are protected, you know, that like, the truth gets out. And, and, and these things are treated, what I think they should be treated as securities, as investments. And, and the industry does not want that. They really don't want that because securities law is predicated on disclosure. You need to know who you're giving your money to and what they're doing with the money. And, and crypto really doesn't want that. So I'm just trying to, you know, advocate for, for how I see it with the.

[D]

Where is my last question? Because one of those lines, where are we at legislatively with regulating this?

[B]

We're in a bad place. Last year from, from my position as a skeptic, anyway, last year the, the House and Senate passed and Trump signed into law a thing called the Genius act, which, which if you know anything about this Congress, and it's called the Genius act, you know, it has to be stupid. And it's a bill that allows corporate, among other things, allows corporations to issue their own money in the form of stablecoins, these cryptocurrencies. And so we're talking about literal corporate money. Like, it'll probably roll out later this year or next year. Meta has been wanting to do this forever. So it's like, you know, you might have to go to Meta. If you're on Meta's platform and you're trying to, like, buy something, you might have to convert your money into metabolics. And, you know, it's very clear that the corporations would benefit from this. Right, because they get to collect interest on all that money that they're holding of yours. But how do the. How did the. The customers. How does the public benefit? I don't think they do at all. So that bill already passed. That's really bad. And I think that kind of highlights what we're talking about with crypto. Like, if the money doesn't come from the government. I know we all have our bone to pick with the government. I get it. I have, I have some myself. But like, if the money doesn't come from the government, where does it come from? The crypto companies don't like to talk about. The crypto organizations don't like to talk about this. But the answer is corporations. You know, it's World Liberty Financial when it comes to Trump. But it's also bitcoin. The majority of bitcoin that are mined today are mined by multibillion dollar corporations, many of which are publicly traded. So if corporate money seems like a good idea to you, then okay. But it's not. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me, and I don't think it sounds like a good idea to the regular public. So why did all these politicians vote for it? And by the way, a lot of Democrats voted for it, too. 100 Democrats. So it wasn't just the Republicans. Well, the crypto lobby has hundreds of millions of dollars to spend on, effect infecting and affecting our political process. And they've been targeting senators and congresspeople who speak out against the industry. I mean, they spent, I testified at the Senate banking committee in 2022, they spent $40 million trying to defeat and succeeded defeating Sherrod Brown, who was the chairman of that committee in Ohio. And they boosted this guy, Bernie Moreno, who is a pro crypto guy. So they have an enormous amount of money to spend. And I think a lot of the Democrats are afraid of them and, or beholden to them.

[A]

With, with your interview with SBF and, and talking about FTX in particular, the business that they had with the separation between the, the hedge fund arm, the Alameda Research, and then ftx, the exchange, if they hadn't had insert that one line of code that allowed SBF to extract deposits and then kick them over to the, to the investment arm, if that wasn't there. Did they have a solvent business? Did they have anything that would have been, would have been profitable if they hadn't committed that fraud?

[B]

No. And in fact, the reason they had to steal the money was that they were bad at trading. It's really ironic. Like, I assumed they were making money hand over fist. I didn't know what they were doing. But if you own a trading firm and an exchange, like, surely you're able to like, make money on this thing, right? I mean, you're trading on insider knowledge. Shouldn't you be able to crush it? And instead, I mean, I sat at the trial when Sam was charged with these crimes in the Southern District of New York. Instead, what we saw in court records is they were losing money even in a booming market, or definitely when the market started crashing in 2022, Alameda was. And that's why they needed to borrow, slash steal their customers assets on the exchange. So it's kind of interesting too, because that's actually a common trait in fraudsters, is like it doesn't start off. They don't always start off trying to steal the money. It often starts off they make a mistake. You read about some guy on some obscure desk, he's trading Thai convertible bonds and he just over bets in the wrong way and he loses a little money and then he doesn't want to admit it to his boss, so he bets bigger. And this is more. And then like this thing spirals out of control and all of a sudden he's arrested for, you know, gambling away $10 billion on a desk that wasn't supposed to handle a fraction of it. So sometimes the fraud happens just because, like the, you make a mistake and then you, you, you, you won't admit it, you know, and the lie just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

[A]

Would it be fair to say that this ultimately, every crypto company ultimately boils down to which ones are best at marketing themselves? Is it just a big marketing shell game where it's like an attention economy? And if you can get the most attention on whatever it is your product is or whatever your coin is, whatever your exchanges, that is the ultimate goal. To see who can drive as many eyes and then from that, as many wallets to your product as possible. It has nothing to do with the actual product behind what you're marketing?

[B]

Yeah, I would say that's a pretty fair statement. I mean, the bitcoin advocates will say one of the sayings in crypto is like, bitcoin has no marketing department, you know, because we don't know who Satoshi Nakamoto was. And so it's like this decentralized currency. Right? But as I talk about in the movie, because you're not really investing in a thing that has any correlation to any real world asset. It's just lines of computer code stored on blockchains. Like, what are you investing in? I would say you're investing in the story of bitcoin that like, bitcoin is worth something and you're investing in the belief of other people, then it's worth something. And so it's not that bitcoin has no marketing department. It's that bitcoin is only marketing. Like all crypto is really just convincing you to give your real money over in exchange for this thing they're calling a currency that isn't really a currency. And you might win and you might lose. But that's why they spend so much money on marketing. That's why they have Crypto.com arena and FTX arena before they went kablooi and you Know, and that's why they spend money on politicians, is to rig the game so they can have different rules for themselves. They don't have to be treated like banks or whatever.

[A]

Big T, what else you got?

[C]

Well, this is a hard pivot. I don't know if we want to save it for the end, but. You played flag football with Drew Brees growing up.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

How was he? Was he awesome?

[B]

He was awesome. I remember we went to the same middle school, and. And we were like. You know, we knew he was good athlete, but, like, you know, I remember that first day we went to the park to, like, throw the ball around, and the dude is just like. Like his dad, I think, played. I think his dad was a QB Baylor, But Drew was just. Yeah. Phenomenal athlete. And by the way, great guy. Like, really, really good dude. And not the tallest guy in the world, right? Like, six one, you know, really?

[A]

Shorter, maybe Shorter.

[D]

Five. Yeah.

[A]

Well, you're five ten, Ben.

[B]

Exactly. I'm.

[C]

I'm.

[B]

You know, there's a joke in the movie about that.

[C]

Now.

[B]

I'm. I'm. I'm five eight, five nine on a good day.

[C]

He's listed at six foot, so he's five' ten.

[A]

Yeah. Drew Brees. I. I've heard five' ten is. Is. Yeah. Fair. Fair height form.

[B]

That sounds about right. Drew. So Drew and I play the same middle school team, and then he went to Westlake, which is a powerhouse school in Austin, and. And I went to Austin High, and they just beat. Beat the living crap out of us every year. It was. It was a lot of fun.

[A]

I did have another question about the movie. You went to a lot of these bitcoin conventions and crypto conventions. Did you just want to blow your head off at those things? It feels like that's the most annoying place on earth to be.

[B]

It's pretty annoying. You end up drinking a lot. You drink a lot. Yeah, you know, but everyone's drinking a lot, so, you know, it's kind of like a trade show, right? All these dudes. It is almost exclusively dudes. I mean, there's hot girls trying to sell you, you know, passing out free drinks or whatever. But, like, the people that are buying and selling are mainly dudes, and. Yeah, everyone just gets. Gets really drunk. Yeah. It was fun, though. I mean, look, again, I'm not. I know it sounds like I'm hating on all the people that are investing in it. I'm really not. I. I think we have to laugh at the things that are actually funny, because otherwise, we're not really being honest about it, but I am actually trying to protect them. But I also, like, refuse to tolerate the. And so if someone's gonna like, you know, try to shame me from talking about it or whatever. Dave knows this. I can't let it go. I can't let anything.

[F]

You haven't changed since college. You've always been guy who explains inflation at parties. So I'm not surprised.

[A]

That's a pretty cool guy to have at his party. Yeah, like, you know, this beer was cheaper.

[D]

I think one of the funniest things that came out of this whole thing, which is not, it's not the same as bitcoin, but it's kind of in the same. Under the same umbrella, which is the nft. The, the monkey picture was in real time. I was, I was making fun of people about this. I was like, this is the dumbest shit I've ever seen in my life and I still can't. They were selling millions of dollars for a monkey picture, though. I was laughing.

[F]

I think there was an 88 minutes poster for an NFT that, that went pretty high, right, Ben?

[B]

All right, guys, that's a deep cut. Dave is making fun of a movie that I did with the legendary Al Pacino.

[F]

It's a great movie.

[B]

I'm not going to defend the movie. Movie is fine, whatever. And you're, you're, you're doing a deep cut against me as an NFT, Dave. I didn't issue that 88 minutes NFT.

[A]

We don't know.

[B]

Did I or did I?

[F]

Yeah, we don't know that.

[B]

NFTs are amazing. So NFTs are, you know, the, like digital ownership of the thing is like, how can you create scarcity out of something that you could just right click and save? Because it's just a two dimensional image, right? I see you, Aaron. It's like, he's like, yeah, yeah, bro. The answer is you can't. I mean, they're saying like, oh, it's an nft. So it's a record on the blockchain. It's like, well, what is that? So really, an NFT is like a receipt. Like, oh, I own this. A receipt for a link to a jpeg. It's like, all right, man, if you want to spend millions on that, like, go for it, go for it. In econ, when these things happen, there's a term for it which is called Greater fool theory, where basically the price of a speculative asset rises so far beyond any real world value that it has that the price is really determined by greater fools. You're buying it, hoping to sell it to a greater fool than yourself. And this game can go on for a very long time, but ultimately someone at the end of it is left the biggest idiot holding the bag. And so there's a lot of that. There's also a lot of money laundering in crypto. Shocker. And there's a lot of money laundering the art world. So there may have been a lot of that that was like inflating the

[A]

prices at the time I remember on. Was it the, the Jimmy Fallon show and Paris Hilton went on there to unveil her ape. That conversation should go down. We should put that in the Library of Congress for, for the stupidest conversation to ever happen on television. It's like watching it now. Your brain will melt out of your ear when you listen to Jimmy Fallon just like go completely like he, he, he just fell in love with Paris Hilton's ape that she.

[B]

So do you guys know the story behind that? The story behind that they're being sued right now because the allegation is again, it's an allegation that the celebs were given the NFTs. They didn't pay for them. They're giving them and they're hawking them on tv, not disclosing that they were given the thing. I mean, guys, that's just so wrong. That's so wrong. Oh. Oh. You know the other funny thing about that? Apparently they, they gave the audience NFTs like they were like, hey, and everyone gets a. Not one of their NFTs that was valuable, but quote unquote valuable but like some crappy nft. And I just laugh my ass off thinking about like some, some like middle aged couple that have traveled from like Ohio to New York to see the Tonight Show. The famous Tonight Show. And they go and they're watching Paris Hilton and Jimmy Fallon hawk this ridiculousness and they get a JPEG or link to a jpeg as they're like parting gift. I think that's really funny.

[C]

Wasn't the argument for those that they were on a blockchain, wasn't that part of it? They were like, you own this because nobody can access the, the whatever, the code.

[B]

Yeah. And, and then you would just like some guy would be, would be talking about that and hyping it up on, on Twitter or whatever and you would just like right click and save the same thing and then post it.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And they would, they would lose their minds. They'd lose their minds. You know.

[A]

No, you can't do that.

[B]

You know, it's like, well, I can't, dude. I just did it. You gonna sue me? Anyway, It's a. It's a pretty stupid world.

[A]

There was a. There was a story that came out last week about the. The creator of Bitcoin, Satoshi Nakamoto. The New York Times claims that they've tracked down the actual person behind this. Have you had a chance to read that?

[B]

And.

[A]

And what do you think about it?

[B]

I. I've read it. I have. The guy is Adam Back, is his name. I don't think that it proves that he's Satoshi because there's no smoking gun that I see. No incontrovertible evidence. There's a lot of, like, I guess you call it circumstantial evidence that. That might lead you to him, and he certainly is a. A good candidate for it. He was the first person that Satoshi emailed. You know, Satoshi, is this, like, made up person? Like, it's not. There's not a real Satoshi Nakamoto behind this. Somebody just called, created a pseudonym online and released this.

[A]

Have you seen.

[D]

Have you seen the Last Dragon?

[B]

No.

[D]

You ever seen the Last Drag with Bruce Leroy?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[F]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, sure. Many years.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Bruce Lee, right? It was the. The master. Who's the master? Take me to the master. It was just some. There was just some fortune cookie machine.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[D]

Same vibe.

[B]

It's kind of like that. The funny thing about this. This guy. So the guy that they think that the Times is saying is Satoshi, is this guy Adam Back. He's a British cryptographer. I've never met Adam. I've never interviewed him. But one thing I know about Adam is that he hates me. He. He has referred to me as a crisis actor, which is funny because I am an actor, and it is a crisis. He's almost so close to getting it. But it's interesting. He hates me. I can't imagine why he would hate me. Another fun fact about Adam Back is that in the Epstein files, we found out that his company, Blockstream, received an investment from Jeffrey Epstein. So, you know, only the best. Only the best people in crypto.

[C]

Well, there were a lot of people who thought Epstein might be Satoshi Nakamoto.

[A]

Right.

[C]

At some point.

[B]

I. That doesn't. That doesn't. The dates don't work for that. In my. In terms of the emails, it appears that Epstein. I did a whole piece on this for a video I did for an organization called More Perfect union. So people can watch that online if they want. It's like three minutes long. It appears that Epstein found out about crypto around 2011, something like that, through a guy named Brock Pierce, who's a hilarious character, a former child actor from the Mighty Ducks, who is now a crypto entrepreneur. So if he found out about in 2011, then he couldn't have Ben Satoshi, because the bitcoin white paper came out in 2008. But what is clear is that, that Epstein was into this at a, At a. At a very early stage. The crypto market in 2015 was really, really small, and he came in to like, fund the system and keep it going through the MIT Media Lab secretly, you know, because he was already a registered sex offender. So they didn't want to, you know, promote that.

[A]

That's fair. That's very fair. Have you met anybody? I guess. Let me ask it this way. Your advice, because you are not a financial advisor, your advice seems to just be, be careful. And you're kind of spreading the word about how everybody should. Should think twice, should do due diligence, be aware of the risks and the, the historical downside to investing in a lot of these coins and technology. But ultimately that's not going to work on like a grand scale to protect people. Right? Like, I think you're doing a good, A good job. You're raising awareness, but massive picture. It can't be one guy being like, hey, you should be careful. That's going to. That's going to be the. The thing that makes a difference. So I feel like it does have to come eventually from the government, from government regulations. What do you think? What would your solution be to. If you were to write a law, how would the government be able to protect its own citizens from potential fraud? When it comes to crypto, protecting them

[B]

from fraud, I think is actually pretty straightforward. If I was king for a day, I would just classify all of the speculative cryptocurrencies. I include Bitcoin, Ethereum, Trump, Coin, Melania Coin, comerocket, all of them, and classify them as securities. And then they have to follow securities laws, they have to do disclosures, they have to do quarterly reports, things like that. And people will have the information to judge for themselves whether they want to invest or not. I am not saying outlaw crypto, because I don't think that would work if you outlawed it. I think it would just go back to where it was before and just be this underground thing. So that's one half of the equation. The other half of the equation is these things called stablecoins. Do you guys know they're cryptos that are pegged one to one with real currencies like the US Dollar, Right. So their price never changes, or at least supposedly. Right? So it's sort of like a black market dollar. It's a dollar that doesn't have to go through the banking system. And it is used for an enormous amount of crime. That 154 billion that I cited earlier, most of that is via stablecoins because criminals like it because they don't have to deal with the volatility of Bitcoin or these other cryptocurrencies. They can just send something that's value remains constant anywhere in the world and avoid the banks. And so it's used for things. I mean, it's used right now. The straight up moves. The tankers that are going through, at least some of them are paying the Iranians their fee in crypto because the Iranians are shut out of the banking system. So for the stable coins, they're claiming to be worth a dollar, but they're not backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government. I think this stuff is really dangerous. And I think we should consider if it's calling itself a dollar and it's not a dollar, isn't that a counterfeit dollar? I do not think the stablecoin thing, the stablecoin thing scares me more than the speculative stuff. Because if that gets into our banking system and we mix the fake money with the real money, we could have like another subprime crisis, you know, in a recession. You know, imagine a recession scenario where the market corrects and crypto crashes again, but this time it's tied into our banking system through the stable coins. That could be like a recipe for disaster.

[A]

That was gonna be another question that I had. So I'm not, I don't own crypto. I actually think that might not be accurate. I think I might still own some doge that I bought in 2020 when I didn't know what it was and do not have any idea like how much I have in it. But it's not a lot. But as a person that's not heavily leveraged in crypto, I don't have like any real savings or real money tied into it. Like, what is the danger to those of us that don't take risks investing in this type of, this type of speculation? What are, what are the risks to us if bad things were to happen in the crypto industry?

[B]

Yeah, good question. Well, first of all good on you. And my. I don't offer people financial advice, but if pressed, all I say is, as you said before, just don't gamble with money you can't afford to lose.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Just be careful, right? Just because. Just assume or imagine a scenario where whatever money you put in, you lose it. Are you okay? Does that affect your day? Are you, you know, other than. Are you a little bit sad? Does it change your life? And if it does, my suggestion, my humble suggestion is just don't take that risk in terms of what could happen to the rest of us, even those of us that aren't really into crypto. If a scenario like the one I described plays out where there's a recession and the market corrects and crypto crashes and it's all tied into the banking system, basically, it could create another subprime crisis where we have to bail all these guys out again. Which is hilarious because crypto was set up ostensibly in reaction to the subprime crisis. So they've effective. They would have effectively recreated the same scenario and that would really infuriate me and it would just be wrong. So that's, I think, the real danger at this point. If you own an index fund, like a broad index fund, you actually do have some exposure to crypto already because there's all these crypto companies that are publicly traded. And so you have a tiny bit of exposure now, but the systemic risk is like, it all goes kablooey and we bail them out.

[A]

Dave, do you have any questions for us?

[F]

Do I have any questions for you guys?

[A]

Open up the floor.

[F]

No, I mean for Aran. I mean, just.

[B]

You have a question? You have a question? I could tell.

[A]

I don't have.

[F]

I don't have a question. Related. I mean, I.

[B]

Football.

[F]

I was asleep half the time then. No, I mean Aryan. Big fan. Pft. Big fan. Just happy to be here. Not really sure why I'm here, but glad to be here.

[A]

Dave, I'm a big fan of yours.

[B]

Funny.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

I'm a big fan of Dave's. I'm a Dave guy.

[F]

Thanks, man.

[A]

Yeah, thank you. I thought Dave stole every scene that he was in in the film.

[B]

I appreciate that he did and he does. He's fantastic in the movie, I can say, is the director.

[F]

Yeah, I think, you know, at risk of repeating myself earlier when I don't think I was being recorded, I have to get this one in. I do think he got the title wrong. I think it should have been Ben Won't Shut the up about his econ degree and we'll just leave it at that.

[A]

I think. Yeah, I think Ben, as a, as a UVA grad, he just did this movie so that he could show his diploma off.

[F]

Yeah, I mean, he's kind of like the, the CrossFit guy who definitely let you know he does CrossFit.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, Ben. So I lived in Charlottesville for about two years and then I lived in Austin, Texas for about 10 years as well. So we've had, we've had a little bit of cross over there. What is your, what's your go to Queso in Austin?

[B]

It's been, I haven't lived in Austin for a long time, so I'm probably way out of the loop. I mean, we would go to places like Matto Rancho and stuff like that. There's a classic, you know, I don't know that it's like the hippest place in the world. Offense to Matt's. Yeah, I don't know. What's your jam?

[A]

What's your, I mean, Matto Rancho is a good answer. I, I, I like Mag Mud Magnolia Cafe.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You get the Mag Mud with the black refried beans that's mixed into it.

[B]

That's better. That's better. Yours is better than mine.

[A]

Kirby Lane. KSO is a staple as well.

[B]

Kirby Lane's fantastic.

[A]

I love Kirby Lane. Make your way up to Tyson's Tacos if you haven't been there yet. Just off Airport Boulevard. Get the Crispy Duck Taco. I, I, yeah, I like to tell people that I invented it, but ultimately I was like their, one of their first customers and they said, if you eat 20 tacos, we'll name a taco after you. And So I ate 20 tacos in about five days. And I was like, you should do like a Peking duck style taco. And then they put like a week later they had a Crispy duck taco on the menu. And it's awesome. You should try it.

[B]

That sounds fantastic. Did you get credit?

[A]

I, no, no. It was one of those things where like, something beautiful came into this world that I had a small part in playing. And I feel like it's, I'm just happy that it's there. I don't, I don't need the credit for it. Except for right now when I'm talking about it publicly on a podcast and demanding credit for it. But besides that, I don't need any credit for it.

[B]

And, and I'm like you, I just really need the credit, like a lot. You know what I Mean, I just definitely need the credit all the time now. That's a good call. What's your. What's your barbecue jam down there?

[A]

I mean, it's a very basic answer. I do love the salt lift lick. Salt lick. It's hit or miss. I've been there a couple times where it hasn't been up to par, but the new one, maybe one of my new favorite restaurants in the entire country, it's going to be. Is it Leroy and Lewis in South Congress? And it is. It's just so good. It's like a fast, casual barbecue place. I think they have a Michelin star. They have a Michelin star. And one of our guys here at Barstool went down and, like, worked with them for a couple days, just like, learning the barbecue trade. But it is. It's. It's probably the best barbecue in the country in my opinion right now. So go check it out.

[F]

Dan. That is. That. That is where you. It is appropriate to use the word delicious.

[A]

FYI, you don't like to.

[F]

He was on Jon Stewart or something the other day. And what did you say? You said, like, all this, all these guys that are Trump's buddies getting, getting theirs. It's. It's just delicious. It's like, delicious. Dude, what are you talking about?

[A]

What?

[B]

I can't. I can't have nice things. I can't enjoy nice things.

[F]

You can if you wear a scarf. Go.

[A]

Go to Leroy and Lewis and. And you won't regret it. It's okay. It's the absolute best.

[B]

I'm actually going to Austin next week for the movie, so I'll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's. You're in for a treat. I wish I could go there, like, right now for lunch, except I probably need a nap afterwards. All right, well, we have any other questions for the fellas? This is really cool. Thank you guys for joining us. I. I did enjoy the movie. I think you did a good job again, like, kind of putting into words a lot of the things that I've been feeling for the last, like, in my gut for the last eight or nine years or ten years or however long it's been that I've been, like, casually observing the. The crypto space.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah. I appreciate. Good job.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you. We're going up to. To Boston. We'll be in Boston on. I think it's Friday.

[A]

That.

[B]

Because I know you got. You guys are Boston area, right? Are you guys north?

[A]

We're in Chicago, so we have one office that's in New York, and then,

[B]

I'm sorry, the original bar. Okay, my bad. I was gonna invite Dave because, you know, he's from Boston, but unfortunately, the show is sold out.

[F]

That's a bummer.

[B]

Just. I can't invite my good buddy.

[F]

Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I'm sorry. The movie's just too popular. But otherwise, I would.

[F]

I'll catch it on YouTube.

[A]

Pirate it.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Down. Download it illegally, Dave.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyway, guys. Yeah. This has been awesome. Thank you for having us on. Super fun.

[A]

Yeah. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

[C]

Okay, guys, it's grit week. This is the part of the football calendar where nobody's watching, but everything gets built. Early mornings, pads back on conditioning, film reps. Spring training. In football is all about putting in the work when nobody's cheering yet. And honestly, that's the same mindset behind the Chevy Silverado. This is a truck that is the definition of grit. Long days, dirty work, and showing up day after day, no matter the conditions. Strong, dependable, and built for the grind. Because grit isn't about being flashy. It's about being ready when it's time to go. Check out the current offers and build your [e-mail]. that's Silverado. All grit, no quit. And you can build your [e-mail] today.

[A]

All right, that was Ben and Dave. Thank you guys for listening to Macrodosing, and we will see you guys next week. Love you guys.

[F]

Goodbye.