The History Behind Cannibalism & The Donner Party | Sept. 25, 2025

Summary

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Macrodosing: The History Behind Cannibalism & The Donner Party

September 25, 2025 • Hosts: PFT Commenter, Barstool crew with Nick Turani, T Bob, Big T, and others

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a deep and darkly humorous dive into the history of cannibalism, focusing particularly on the infamous Donner Party tragedy of 1846. The crew balances irreverent banter and pop culture tangents with a detailed retelling of the Donner Party, dissecting both the actual history and why the event continues to capture the American imagination. They also explore broader instances of cannibalism, medical implications, and societal taboos. As always, their conversational format is laced with jokes and spirited side-convos, but never loses sight of the macabre heart of today's topic.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. The Donner Party: Context, Plan, and Catastrophe

• Early American Wanderlust & Manifest Destiny

  • The "quest" spirit of westward expansion—the risk, glory, and adventure involved in seeking new land.
  • Anecdotes about the Reed family, their motivations, Abraham Lincoln's connections, and the competitive “shortcut” culture of male adventurers.

• Lansford Hastings—Con Man & His Fateful Cutoff

  • “One of my favorite… a crazy, educational pamphlet. The Immigrant's Guide to Oregon and California.” (41:01, PFT)
  • The group’s fatal decision to trust Hastings’ untested route (Hastings Cutoff) via the Sierra Nevada—shaving miles off their journey but at terrible cost.

• Logistics, Mistakes & The Departing Party

  • They departed late (May, not April), poorly packed, and encountered immense hardship crossing unmarked wilderness and salt flats.
  • "They were supposed to leave in mid to late April… they didn’t leave Independence, Missouri, until May 12." (53:10, PFT)

• “Mad Woman Camp” & Group Dynamics

  • Comic interludes about petty arguments and the infamous packing drama (cannonballs vs. gowns): "He tries to bring the cannonball onto the wagon. She’s like, you have to be kidding me…” (47:54, PFT)

2. Disaster Strikes: Entrapment & Desperation

• First Snowfall & Realization

  • Early snow traps the party just short of the pass—panic, starvation, and attempts to seek rescue.
  • “They were about 100 miles away, right. So they were damn close… and then that blizzard rolled in and didn't stop…” (61:05, T Bob)

• Attempts at Survival

  • They ate oxen, then their dogs, boiled animal hides, hunted mice, and ultimately turned to eating the dead.
  • "[Kids] just did what they said. And James Reed...became a business leader in San Jose." (85:20, PFT)

• The Forlorn Hope: Search Parties and Cannibalism

  • Sending out rescue parties, the grim fate of Native American guides Luis and Salvador (shot and eaten).
  • “So they went and they eventually shot both of the guides in the head, butchered their bodies and ate them.” (68:11, PFT)

• First Cannibalism: Drawing Straws

  • Awkward negotiations about who would be the first victim; an unsettling consensus when drawing straws failed.
  • “They drew straws, and this one guy lost. And then they all couldn't do it…” (70:06, PFT)

• Different Meat Choices & Morbid Humor

  • Jokes about who would taste best if cannibalism hit the Barstool office: “I’ve always thought that I look like I'd be pretty good to eat.” (72:43, T Bob)

3. Aftermath & Legacy

• Rescue & Sensational Press

  • Reluctant survivors, rescue parties arriving too late for many, and immediate mythologizing/vilification in the media.
  • “There were rumors from some of the other kids that Keseberg had taken one child to bed with him and the next morning the boy was dead, hung up on the wall like a slab of meat…” (83:35, PFT)

• Public Reckoning & Lessons

  • How the story became punchline fodder, yet remains a dark cautionary tale.
  • “The story of what happened started to come out in the press…and it was sensational…it was like more—way more brutal.” (80:17, PFT)

4. Cannibalism Globally: Taboos, Trends & Trivia

• Medical, Cultural, and Historical Accounts

  • Brief looks at cannibalism in China, Papua New Guinea (Kuru—’mad cow disease’ for humans), modern famines (North Korea, China’s Great Famine), and odd medical traditions.
  • “In the 7th century BCE…[one man] was curious about the taste of steamed child because he had eaten everything else…” (88:00, T Bob)
  • “Papua New Guinea… they would eat the bodies of their own relatives as a favor…” (91:07, PFT)

• Science of Cannibalism: Risks and Misconceptions

  • Health consequences chiefly tied to eating brains (“Kuru”). Some genetic resistance among populations historically practicing cannibalism.

• Notable Modern Cases

  • The Uruguayan rugby team's Andean flight (“Alive”), serial killer Albert Fish, and the ongoing oddity of people eating placenta.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Cannibalism Becoming a Punchline:
  “Everything becomes funny with time. We were talking about how like Vikings used to be like the last people you’d ever want to f--- with. And now… it’s just a sports team.” (13:29, PFT)

• On Dangerous Shortcuts:
  “Dudes do love shortcuts though. If you feel like you’re one of the first ones to know about a shortcut…I’m smarter than everyone else. We’re gonna do it, but we’re gonna do it better.” (52:14, PFT)

• First Cannibalism Decision:
  “They drew straws, and this one guy lost. And then they all couldn’t do it.” (70:06, PFT)

• Why Did No One Fish?!
  “That would be in the top three skills I’d wanna know. Fire, shelter, fishing…fishing might be better than hunting.” (65:59, E)

• On Survival Cannibalism:
  “If you’re the only person that’s against eating somebody, you’re going to be the first one eaten.” (69:26, E)

• On the Mythos of the Donner Party:
  “It was called the Donner Reed party. And now it’s just Donner. Reed probably had a lot to do with that.” (85:24, E and PFT)

• On “Curdled Wisdom” & Aging:
  “The thing about aging is that there is inevitably a moment when all that wisdom and experience you’ve been accruing for decades begins to curdle… what you’ve been through before blinds you to what’s happening right now.” (12:00, T Bob quoting a sportswriter)

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Tangents, Pop Culture, and Banter

• Absurd detours: Prince’s name change, celebrity sex tallies (Charlie Sheen, Will Chamberlain, with skepticism about their math), Hitler mustaches, Rasputin’s anatomy, and Kimbo Slice’s pre-MMA fame.
• College Football Chat: Late-episode: rankings, Miami hype, the story of Lane Kiffin’s daughter, and whether testosterone and relationships affect athlete performance.
• Modern Conspiracies: Brief foray into Tylenol/autism discourse (via Trump/RFK press), medicine, and the legal and social complexities of research versus clickbait.

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Important Timestamps

• 12:53: First entrée into the Donner Party/cannibalism topic.
• 32:10: Detailed start of the Donner Party’s plans and origins.
• 53:10: Discussion of critical mistakes—late departure, poor packing.
• 61:02: Discussion of starvation, the first snow, and approaching death.
• 68:11: The Forlorn Hope, shooting & eating the Native American guides.
• 70:06: The drawing straws episode; breaking the cannibalism taboo.
• 84:00: Aftermath and rumors about individuals like Keseberg.
• 87:51–91:00: Global perspectives on cannibalism, including ancient China, Kuru, and Papua New Guinea.
• 131:02–142:20: Tylenol/autism debate, pharmaceutical liability, gendered blame, and politicization.
• 106:27–123:39: Late episode college football talk, including Ryder Cup format explainer and Lane Kiffin gossip.

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Takeaways

• The Donner Party’s tragedy was not just about misfortune, but hubris, poor choices, and misplaced trust—a microcosm of early American expansion.
• Cannibalism, for all its horror, is a complex human taboo: sometimes a survival necessity, sometimes the mark of privilege, and always the stuff of legend and discomfort.
• The episode is as much about the hosts' attitudes and humor as the topic; the narrative is peppered with self-deprecation, irreverence, and insightful asides about how history becomes myth (and sometimes, punchline).

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

Hey macrodosing listeners. You can find us every Tuesday and Thursday on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[B]

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[A]

Hey everybody, it's Vibs and this is.

[E]

My PSA to remind you that golf season is officially here.

[A]

Whether you end up in the fairway.

[E]

Or in the woods, fire up your.

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Round this spring with the official shot.

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Of golf Fireball Cinnamon Whiskey.

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Slip a couple minis in your bag.

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For you and the boys so that.

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No matter how you hit them, you're.

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Still having a killer day out on the course. Ignite the fairways with Fireball Cinnamon Whiskey.

[A]

Like in today's day and age.

[E]

Teach a man to fish.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Every man should know how to how to buy food at a supermarket. It's pretty.

[B]

I definitely do.

[E]

Imagine you have a group of 86 and just like I don't know how to.

[B]

I don't know how to check out of this grocery store.

[A]

Does anyone here have an instacart?

[B]

Oh, starving in a grocery store just laying on the ground.

[E]

I ate pft in the juul Moscow.

[B]

There's nothing we could do.

[A]

Welcome back to Macro Dosing. It is Thursday. It's September 25th, and today's show is brought to you by. Game time. It's college football season. That means tailgates, cheering crowds, and the excitement of being in the stands before kickoff are all back too. If you ever found yourself at a tailgate and decided to grab tickets at the last minute, that's where game time comes in. The GameTime app gives the event the advantage back to the fans. It's the hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in just a few taps. It's so easy to use. The game time guarantee means that you can trust that you're going to get 100 authentic tickets on time at the best price, and the fees are always included. What you see is what you pay. Big T. We've got a giant weekend. A Mega weekend of college football coming up this weekend. What are the tickets looking like for who's Iowa playing?

[C]

Indiana. Going into Iowa.

[A]

Okay, what are we looking at to get in?

[C]

So there's a zone deal for one of the sidelines. 45 bucks get you a ticket in that zone deal. Then there's others that are like 53, 54. Good stuff.

[A]

That's great. Great. Indiana is legit. Go watch them, celebrate them, enjoy them. Fun story, fun team. Use Game Time to get in. Take the guesswork out of buying college football tickets with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account and use code macro. Get 20 bucks off your first purchase terms. Apply again. Create an account, redeem code M A C R O. Get 20 bucks off. Swipe, tap ticket. Go download the Game Time app today. Welcome back to Macro Dosing. It is Thursday. What's the date today? I don't have the date pulled up in front of me. Is it. Let me guess, let me guess. 24th?

[B]

Y. Yeah. All right.

[C]

No, no.

[A]

Well, tomorrow, today. Oh, okay.

[B]

It's recording date.

[A]

Yeah, it's the 25th of September. Damn it. You thought it was yesterday.

[B]

You.

[A]

I actually, it didn't occur to me on Sunday. But we're. We're in autumn now, boys. Yeah, summer's over.

[C]

Have been for a while now.

[E]

When's it over for you?

[C]

I've explained this on this show before, but summer to me. No, you weren't here. Fall to me begins August 1st because that's when school started.

[A]

That's such a bad day.

[B]

So I.

[C]

While I recognize.

[B]

Agree with Big T. August 1st, summer's over.

[E]

When you go back to school.

[C]

Agreed.

[A]

Did you go back to school August 1st?

[B]

We would go back. It was close. We go back like 8th or 9th or something. Yeah, but. But it's too hot.

[C]

I. I mean, it's not cold here even now, I guess means no school.

[B]

Agreed. Okay.

[C]

So while I recognize that it is, I think, as unconventional, I think as.

[B]

A child, I believe that. But now that we're just talking this out, I think if as an adult, I've moved completely away from that now that I don't go to school anymore, I feel like summer's become completely temperature based.

[C]

At a bare minimum, fall is when football starts and football happens at the end of August.

[B]

I again, though, I still.

[C]

You think they're playing football games in the summer?

[B]

It's so fucking hot in the south during those first games. You know this.

[C]

It's. It's hot in California in January. That doesn't make it the summer.

[B]

Okay. That's actually not a bad. That's not a bad counterpoint. I don't know. I feel like fall has to start with a cool autumnal crisp.

[C]

You're going to be waiting a while.

[A]

It's. Nick is right, because in my opinion.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

In my opinion, fall starts in September. I went back to school after Labor Day. Yeah. Every year. So you guys went back so crazy all in August. To me, that's crazy. You went back when it was usually, like, September 3rd. September.

[E]

You got all of August.

[A]

Yeah, all of August.

[B]

That's what happened here since I moved my kids here and it was driving us crazy. I was like, get these kids back in school immediately.

[E]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty excellent. That's why I look at August as being pure summer.

[C]

So when do you get off? Like, when does summer start?

[A]

It's usually like, June 17, June 20.

[C]

Oh, something like school all through June.

[B]

Going to school through June.

[E]

That might not be worth it. Yeah, that might not be worth it.

[B]

I don't think it's worth it at all.

[C]

Even close.

[A]

In retrospect, you might be right.

[B]

You're gonna be at the pool in June or riding bikes.

[A]

You guys had Memorial Day, and then it was really summertime.

[C]

That was usually, like, the last day of school.

[A]

Okay. So for us, it was like we had Memorial Day, and then nobody did at school all month of June.

[B]

Oh, that's kind of fun.

[E]

This was all the way through, like, high school and everything.

[A]

Yep. Yeah. I think it was a law in Virginia because there was a. An amusement park there, King's Dominion, and they gave a lot of money. They're a big, like, tax generator.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I think there was a law in Virginia there might still be one, that schools can't open until after Labor Day, so that that amusement park can get all that money, all that revenue.

[B]

Is Kings Dominion still open?

[A]

I think so. Yeah. Well, we had Kings Dominion and Busch Gardens and a few other places I've.

[B]

Always wanted to go to Busch Gardens.

[A]

Yeah. We tailored our educational calendar around the roller coaster.

[E]

Big coaster.

[A]

Big coaster. Yeah. It had it powerful. Arian, if you're listening right now, that's Nick's voice. Yeah, bitch. Nick's on the show.

[E]

I only agreed because I thought he was going to be here, man.

[A]

You're not.

[E]

I got to get the fuck out of here.

[A]

You're not on the show. And your favor, favorite white guy, is we got. We got Nick Turani and we have T. Bobby Bear joining us. Thank you, guys. For. For Sitting in today.

[B]

I'm very happy to be here. Yeah.

[A]

T. Bob's done a really good job filling in during the summertime when I have to go on the part of my take trips. T. Bob's filled in usually with chief, and I'm always bummed out that I don't get to be on those shows.

[B]

I know.

[A]

So I'm glad that, that we're working together on this show also. Tune in. You already tuned in this morning as you're listening to this on FS1 and you heard Big T's Big T y on the show with me and T. Bob. A. Is it going to hit this week?

[C]

Well, big three and one this year.

[B]

Three and one on the big TE's, 11 units.

[C]

I'm scared of this week's, though. It's a scary slate.

[A]

Well, here's the thing. Big T's 3 and 1 with the big TE's, but he's also 4. 0 in terms of predicting when the big T is.

[C]

That is true. I told people on the one loss, I said, don't bet this one.

[A]

So is this one gonna. Is it gonna lose?

[C]

No, it's going to hit. But it might be a bumpy ride to get there.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

A little.

[B]

That makes it worth a little.

[C]

There might be three, baby.

[B]

Let's go.

[C]

But it's going to.

[A]

Last week was too easy.

[C]

We. We had to sweat the Tulane, Ole Miss over a little bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And Nebraska was flirting with losing by a couple touchdowns, but that's true.

[A]

But overall it went pretty smooth.

[C]

Yeah. This week there's a. There's a special Friday night game in the.

[B]

In the Big T. Oh. So Big T is going to be immediately up for grabs on Friday. Which one? Because there's two good Friday games.

[A]

Florida State, so.

[C]

And it scares me.

[A]

I. I haven't looked at the line yet. Uva, I want to say, is favored by. Or, sorry, Florida State is favored by what, six, seven. Yeah, seven.

[B]

But it opened at like 10, right? Yeah. And it seems like everybody I talk to, the. The kind of sexy thing is like, watch out for Chandler Morris.

[C]

No, it's gonna be. It's gonna be a war. FSU plus three and a half is in the.

[A]

I figured that was gonna be one of them. Yeah, yeah. Three and a half. I don't like that half on the three. That scares me.

[C]

Why?

[A]

That's a big half.

[C]

Three and a half plus three and a half.

[A]

Three and a half is one of the. Okay. All right. That's better.

[C]

I said that's.

[B]

So you're really scared of. You're really scared of Virginia then going.

[C]

On the road Friday night acc. It's, it's, it's not going to be easy.

[B]

No one walks into. I don't know, they're saying. No one walks into Scott Stadium and emerges unscathed. I've said that a lot.

[C]

How many ACC stadiums do you know?

[B]

We don't. We should probably talk about cannibalism. Yeah.

[A]

They talk about. They talk about Death Valley. They talk about going to the Big House.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The Horseshoe, Neyland Stadium and Charlottesville on a Friday night.

[E]

Valley.

[A]

They got the tickets out on Friday. Yeah.

[B]

You. You were there. The Cave when. I think I just completely made up Syracuse being called the Loud House. So I obviously have no idea about.

[C]

I don't know what that one's called anymore because they changed it.

[B]

It was the Carrier Dome. Right.

[C]

Is it RCA now?

[A]

I don't know. It was the Carrier Dome for a while, but they didn't have air conditioning in it.

[C]

Correct.

[A]

Even though it was sponsored by an air conditioning company.

[C]

JMA Wireless Dome.

[B]

Gross.

[A]

No, it'll always be Hines Field.

[B]

To me, that's another kind of wonderful form of. I don't know, I don't think irony is the right word, but that it would go from the Carrier Dome to now a cell provider. A cell carrier.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. There you go.

[A]

And then Seattle changed from. You know, I'm. It was Quest, right?

[C]

It was. It was. What's Lumen now?

[A]

Lumen now.

[C]

It used to be from Severance.

[A]

Yeah. It's like the same name as the Severance.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

What was that stadium called?

[B]

I think it was Quest, I think.

[A]

I don't know why, though.

[C]

Like Q, W, E, S T. I'm sure it. It may have been, but there was another one that I think of it.

[A]

As Seahawks stadium names.

[B]

Look, bottom line is Fran Brown's got the Loud House jumping right now.

[E]

You should just start giving nicknames to stadiums that need it.

[B]

Like I should just start doing it, never acknowledging it on lower tier stadiums where nobody's ever going to call you.

[E]

Out on it and see if it just picks up.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Like I think Syracuse would love if they were called.

[E]

You're on network TV every day. You have the power to just. Demon.

[B]

Do we? Yes, yes. According to.

[A]

That, teams got their names back in the day. It's like some newspaper writer would be, like, they looked like a crimson tide going over the field and it's like, that's our team.

[C]

That is how most of them came about.

[A]

We.

[B]

We have lost the art of classic, eloquent, overwritten sports writing. And I missed that. I actually ran into a line today from a writer talking about Gundy that I highlighted because I thought it was very existential and. And good. Hold on, I'll pull it up. Sorry.

[A]

Was it like a flowery, glowing writing about his mullet?

[B]

No, it was a. It was, it was. It was on the concept of just like when wisdom curdles and when your. Your age and experience betrays you instead of being a. A boon. Here it is. Quote. The thing about aging is that there is inevitably a moment when all that wisdom and experience you've been accruing decades begins to curdle.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

When what you've been through before blinds you to what's happening right now. So that's nice. We'll all reach that eventually.

[A]

That's nice.

[B]

It's a good line.

[E]

Some quicker than others.

[A]

Yeah, he's not that old, right? He's 50.

[B]

Yeah, that's. I don't. When was the man rant 07?

[A]

Yeah, I like that. This. That post was alluding to him being like in his soundest mind and more eloquent and a better leader when he was just screaming at reporters, I'm a man. That's when. That's when he had the ear of the locker room.

[E]

They compared his brain to milk.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[E]

That's eloquent. A 50 year old man whose brain is curdled.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't tell Rico.

[A]

And one day it'll be 1% of.

[B]

What it used to be.

[A]

We're going to talk about cannibalism today, so hope you guys haven't eaten yet or maybe it'll make you hungry. I don't know.

[B]

There's a lot more of it than I realized.

[A]

I think there is. There's. Yeah, there's some stuff that we'll get into here. Most importantly, we want to talk a little bit about the Donner Party, which I only knew as like a comedy trope growing up because like there would be a lot of references to the Donner Party and I'd be like, I get that. Didn't really know what it was. But as I grew older, I got to learn a little bit about it. And it's like the most famous example of cannibalism in the United States.

[E]

And it's taken as like a punch line. It's like, yeah, a huge tragedy. Multiple children dead, eating loved ones. And then it's just somehow it becomes fun. It becomes funny.

[A]

Truly, everything becomes funny with time. We Were talking about how like Vikings. Vikings used to be like the last people that you would ever want to with. And now it's like. Oh yeah, they're just, it's just a sports team right now.

[E]

That's all it is.

[A]

Vikings. Yeah. There were cool guys with blonde hair from the north and they went on adventures.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We won't talk about what those adventures were. Yeah.

[E]

Let's just talk pillage.

[B]

Let's just talk.

[C]

What's the most recent thing that's funny?

[A]

Well, I, I think after the Vikings then you got pirates. Fall into that same line where it's like pirates. It's Johnny Depp and he's like having fun.

[C]

Okay. But all that's a long, long time ago.

[B]

No.

[E]

Because current day pirates are hilarious because they're in like rafts with like sandals made of two liter bottles.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

And spears and they're like, let's take that oil tanker.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Like, I love their confidence and I think that's pretty funny that they try to take that on.

[C]

They do understand with cruise ships recently.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Seen some videos.

[A]

Yeah. But they don't.

[E]

They, they've never been close to winning, have they?

[C]

Well, the, the captain.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Ever since then.

[A]

Yeah. No, they win sometimes. They do. They get ransoms if they take over a ship.

[E]

They almost deserve that.

[A]

Yeah. The insurance companies are like, we'd rather just pay off these guys. We'll give them like a hundred thousand dollars and they'll go away. Not realizing that's just going to encourage him. Yeah.

[E]

It's giving a better tech.

[A]

Yeah. And more cot to chew.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean. Yeah. The most, the most recent thing that's fun. I mean some people make a lot, a lot, a lot of 911 jokes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For. If you live through 911 and you were around when it happened, I think you're less likely to think that those are. That's really what it is. It's like if you didn't live through it, then you can. It's always going to be funny to you because you have no concrete awareness.

[B]

It's.

[E]

I'm just, I'll never be the person brave enough to try to be the first one to do it. Like when Ari did the Kobe one.

[A]

Right.

[E]

I think he's still getting death threats for that.

[A]

Yes.

[E]

You just don't want to be the first one.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

See how, see, let somebody else try it.

[B]

It is interesting though, like back in the day and I guess this maybe falls more under propaganda, but like remember the old like Looney Tunes. That would be directly making fun Of Hitler.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, in a contemporary time. That's pretty wild. Yeah.

[A]

Charlie Chaplin, his.

[B]

Yeah. The Great Dictator.

[A]

Great Dictator. He had the mustache first, right?

[B]

I'm not sure. I don't know.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

But I would. I mean, I think that sounds correct to me, because he's more 30s, 20, like 20s, 30. I guess it's actually Hillary as well. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah. Fashion is cyclical, so it might come back one day.

[B]

That'll be. That'll be the. That'll be the ultimate. Like. Like you're saying enough time has passed. That mustache can come back.

[A]

Have to be somebody more famous than Hitler.

[E]

What will come back first? The name Adolf or the mustache?

[C]

I was thinking about this recently, by the way. I have a doorman in my building who has the Hitler mustache.

[E]

No kidding.

[C]

Ask KB Sincerely, yes, We kind of.

[E]

Is he from here?

[C]

Yeah, I think so.

[A]

Huh.

[C]

We kind of, like, retired. Hitler's number.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, what we've done to Hitler in sports is the greatest honor that can be bestowed upon you.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Just like there will never be another.

[C]

No one can wear his number ever again.

[E]

His sons vowed or his grandchildren vowed to never have kids.

[A]

Yeah. They took a celibacy pact.

[C]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That was probably smart.

[E]

They might have been losers.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

But we were talking about it on the yak. Like, imagine, like, trying to bring a chick home.

[B]

Just like.

[E]

All right. I gotta tell you about my dad.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Like, those guys probably weren't getting anyway.

[A]

Yeah, probably not.

[B]

Was Adolph Rupp born after Hitler?

[A]

I think he was pre.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Or he has to be, because he was coaching in the 50s.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

What about Dolph Lundgren? Is his name Adolf?

[A]

Yeah, I think so.

[E]

Or is it Rudolph?

[A]

I think it might be Adolf.

[C]

We don't talk enough, by the way, about Kentucky's basketball arena being named for a militant racist named Adolf.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

He was born in 1901. Adolph Rope.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Me.

[A]

There were definitely some Adolfs that were born after Hitler, but before Hitler became Hitler.

[E]

So, Big T, are you saying that we should have more Adolf Hitlers so they. There's a chance that they're good guys?

[C]

No, it's just. It's just an interesting observation.

[E]

Well, no, but to, like, take the power back.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because.

[B]

Because you're saying we're kind of. That's not.

[C]

That's not my.

[A]

That's our world.

[B]

Yeah. It's like in Harry Potter how, like, Harry got credit for saying Voldemort where, like, nobody else wanted to wait. Do you not like, do you do.

[C]

A soft tee on that?

[B]

I think I've landed in my adult life. Is doing a soft tea. I don't know why it would be Voldemort now.

[C]

I'm not a. I'm not a potter. Stan. I've never heard the way you're pronouncing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Any last name. You will soften the tea at the end.

[B]

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Just filtering it through. A consideration that Franco. Lynn. You know what we need?

[A]

We need somebody who's really famous and universally beloved to change their name to Adolf.

[E]

Imagine that press conference. Like, by the way, guys, we're taking it back.

[B]

I made off Hitler now.

[A]

Yeah. Because I'm. I'm trying to just get. Get away with all the negativity.

[E]

Ken Jennings.

[A]

Ken Jennings. Can and Wood. Weird Al could probably do it.

[B]

That'd be weird, right? Yeah.

[A]

His whole life becomes a weird thing. Yeah.

[C]

Can y' all tell me something? Prince did that, right? He. He was like, I'm this now.

[E]

He changed to a symbol.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But did he have, like a. Was there a press conference? How did that.

[A]

I think he might have had a press conference or at the very least a press release that said, I'm now known as this. And then people started calling the artist formerly known as Prince.

[C]

Did he say what it was?

[B]

That's what it comes.

[E]

I think it was the pr. It was Met Prince.

[A]

Right.

[E]

Or did it mean any? It was.

[B]

Was it a hieroglyph?

[E]

It was. It was almost like every gender kind of combined. It was like.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Male, female, peace sign.

[A]

Let's see.

[B]

Bet you Prince just had sex with everything.

[A]

Everything.

[B]

Yeah, everything.

[A]

He's like, in the same vein as Mick Jagger or David Bowie. It's like you've. You've seen every vagina.

[E]

Well, they're.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Those guys, I think they spend all their money trying to find new penis. Feels.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Like they're trying to combine things I've talked about with Kyle. Like, we think Zac Efron is bored of all. Everything he's felt. Everything his penis can feel.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

So I think he's spending his millions on combining velvet and gecko skin.

[B]

Well, that's like. I mean, that's why all that. You got all the rumors about, like, Richard Pryor and Marlon Brando and everybody back in the day just like it, man.

[A]

I'm inventing the world's first tapioca Fleshbox.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Right.

[E]

I just need a new feeling for my penis.

[C]

Do you see what Charlie Sheen said today?

[A]

He slept with, what, 47000 people.

[C]

That's his claim.

[A]

Now he's trying to sell a book, right?

[C]

Yeah, he had a documentary. Jack Mack did the math. He said it's been 16, 425 days since Charlie Sheen turned 15. So that would be three women a day every day.

[E]

I bet you he's had some 10 women days.

[C]

All right, but even that's only catching up a couple days. He just said slept with Charlie Sheen opens up about how he slept with over 47,000 women and lost his virginity to an escort at 15.

[A]

So slept with.

[B]

That could just mean no big slumber party.

[E]

Yeah, but like what. What about like threesomes? Like, he's probably not in, but I don't know.

[C]

I think also who's keeping count after 10,000?

[A]

Yeah, you just got to do like back of the napkin mat.

[C]

That's a made up back of the.

[B]

Crusty napkin count after like230. I don't know, it just seems. It seems. Yeah.

[E]

What number do you stop?

[C]

Well, we know one guy who kept count. Pretty high guy.

[B]

Was that Will Chamber? Is it Will Chamberlain who's also known for this? Or Kareem?

[C]

He does claim to have that. Yeah, but we know someone personally who's kept count.

[A]

Oh, that has like a.

[E]

Like a notes app.

[C]

I don't know how it works. I just know he's. He kept track pretty well.

[B]

I think maybe it's like a Google Doc because you send it to them, they add their name to it.

[E]

That's almost like Dexter keeping like the blood samples.

[A]

Like, does that individual work at this company?

[C]

Kind of.

[E]

Kind of.

[A]

Is it minty? No, no. Are you.

[C]

Are you being serious?

[B]

Did you have another. Did you have a run in with him? Nah, nah, it doesn't matter.

[A]

Oh, is it.

[C]

How are you? Are you serious?

[A]

Smokes?

[C]

No.

[E]

Oh, I thought that's what kind of works here.

[C]

Are you being for real right now?

[D]

Are you dumb?

[B]

I'm not doing a bit. I'm not doing a bit.

[C]

No, I know you're not talking about. I thought you would have gotten it Aryan. Yes.

[A]

I didn't know that.

[E]

Well, no, but he probably keeps like a log of like beautiful prose and it's. It's not like ital mark or a statistic.

[B]

He.

[C]

I mean, he's probably journals. He's given a number, like very specific. Not remarkably, but range.

[A]

Yeah, I forgot that he did that. Yeah, I remember. I'd love to talk.

[E]

I'd love to page through that one day.

[A]

Yeah, well, there's. There's one on the list. That he won't tell us. Yeah. Actually, this is a good segment for area not being here. Aryan at one point slept with an A lister.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But he won't share the name and he won't tell us who it is. All we know is that his proclivities tend to air more on the mature side.

[E]

Yes.

[A]

And I would assume it's sometime around the peak of his fame.

[C]

So 10 to 12.

[A]

10 to 12 years ago.

[C]

Well, no, 20. 10 to 2012.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, sure.

[B]

Oh, he told me.

[E]

Jennifer Garner. They met on draft day.

[A]

I don't know who it is.

[C]

Do you think even in his drunk.

[A]

He didn't actually tell you? You're just trying to make me jealous.

[B]

Yeah, I am. I knew that would.

[E]

That would break you.

[A]

No, at first I. I thought you were making me jealous, and then I was like, ignore it. He's trying to make you jealous. And then I thought about it for five seconds. I did start to get jealous that maybe he had actually told you that. It's not a bad guess.

[E]

She would have been older than him.

[B]

Halle Berry.

[A]

I already guessed that. No, he told us.

[E]

No, he would have. He would tell you.

[B]

Jamie. Jamie Lee Curtis.

[E]

That's the thing. How do you not tell?

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

Jennifer Garner's 53, so.

[A]

Yeah, but wasn't.

[D]

When did her and Ben Affleck.

[E]

Maybe that's why I can't tell.

[A]

Oh, maybe it was during the. Ben Affleck.

[D]

He was. He was a mistress.

[A]

He was. Yeah. Yeah, he was a mistress. Yeah. No, I. I don't know.

[C]

Y' all aren't gonna believe where Jennifer Garner's from.

[E]

I know.

[B]

West Virginia. Yeah.

[C]

No.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, she was raised in Charleston, West Virginia.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

She was born in Houston, Texas.

[A]

I'll be interesting.

[E]

I just said that out on a whim.

[A]

She's got ties to the area in. Yeah, okay. I'm gonna go with that.

[C]

Is Jennifer Garner a list?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The time definitely. For sure, too.

[A]

Here's what we'll do when Aaron comes back on next week.

[B]

What's in your wall?

[A]

Nobody tweeted Arian that we've talked about this. Big T. Will will dive heavy into Jennifer Garner. Something to do with Jennifer Garner.

[E]

Say that you say you have her as a guest.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And that's a good idea. And we'll discuss her a little bit and we'll see how Arian's. His facial reaction is just to prevent.

[E]

Spoilers like Mad Dog. Can you text the group and just be like, you guys, I'm assuming You guys have a group chat, like, hey, like, whoever is the talent booker asked if we wanted Jennifer Garner next week.

[C]

No, it has to be on the show. Yeah, I want to see his face.

[D]

Or I could. Mackenzie and I could do it where we start recording and don't tell us. Don't tell him. And then we're like, hey, by the way, like, housekeeping. We got pitched Jennifer Gardner. Like, would that be kind of fun for you?

[A]

No, I. Because I.

[D]

For draft day.

[A]

Because if we're right. If we're right about this, then he'll. And we're not recording. He'll say, we can't have her on, and he'll go on this whole thing. Then we won't be able to use that footage. So. But.

[E]

But then people will. Then you'll know.

[A]

But then we'll know, and you don't.

[B]

Talk about it next week. You're right.

[A]

So, yeah, I think that we should just bring it up off camera. No, no, we'll be like, hey, huge guest just came through. Jennifer Garner. Or we'll talk about Jennifer Garner. Maybe say, like, we should have her on the show, and I just want to see his reaction.

[D]

But we would have to have a reason to bring up randomly.

[C]

Jennifer.

[A]

I'll figure out a way, like, what she. What's she working on these days?

[D]

Or do we, like, say that Capital One's about to be. She is. Is Capital One gonna be a sponsor?

[E]

Oh, that's good.

[D]

What's in your wallet?

[E]

Yeah, that's great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that that giant credit card?

[B]

No, no, no, that's Chase.

[E]

Dude, there are some things in this city that pissed me off. Have you seen the apartment complex in Chicago called Triangle Square?

[B]

No.

[E]

Pisses me the off.

[C]

What are we talking?

[E]

Don't call it Triangle Square, man. Any other name but that. You can't do that.

[B]

No, they. They got rid of. They got rid of giant credit card lady. Thank God. I know.

[C]

Where is that?

[B]

It was on my walk from otc, and from the moment I saw it, I was just. I had absolute disdain in my heart for the size of this woman's credit card and this kind of condescending look that she's giving.

[C]

Like a billboard.

[B]

Yeah, it's a billboard. Okay, but it was like, she giving you this look that's kind of like, what.

[E]

It's the biggest credit card.

[B]

Comically large credit. And it's an entire advertising campaign. People send me, like, pictures of the mall all over the place.

[E]

It's like a size of Publishers Clearinghouse.

[B]

Check.

[C]

Interesting. You take the Train, right?

[B]

I did. I can't with the morning show anymore and I miss it. I was in love with the train.

[C]

Have you seen the billboards? I think they're out toward the way you live. It's like eight Brian Erlacher million in a row and it's all hair pugs.

[D]

Brian Erlach hair.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And there's eight of them all in a row.

[B]

I don't think they did hair backer though. Or hair backer. I thought like hair backer because his hair came back would be perfect. And they just.

[E]

They didn't say hair backer.

[B]

No, I don't think so.

[D]

I think I'm having black hair.

[E]

Yeah, but the black hair is bald.

[B]

It's the opposite. Hair backer was right there. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, there's a million Brian Erlacher billboards.

[E]

What about hair linebacker?

[B]

Yeah, see? Exactly.

[C]

It's perfect.

[E]

Holy shit, they fucked up.

[A]

Hair backer is right there.

[E]

Pft. You're in your head, man. You think he told me?

[A]

I do. I do know. I'm.

[B]

You just gave Nick a very interesting look.

[A]

I'm looking up her IMDb right now to see what projects she could. We could. We could be discussing.

[C]

She was most recently in the Apple TV plus drama. The last thing he told me.

[A]

Okay, there is fantasy camp, but her daughter. It's about.

[D]

Is currently speaking at the un.

[A]

Whoa. That's crazy. Yeah. They'll let anyone talk as their youth advocate.

[B]

Just to mean 13 going on 30 is a timeless classic.

[C]

It sure.

[B]

It has an anniversary coming up soon.

[D]

It was. It came out in 2004, so we kind of missed like the 20 year.

[E]

Damn it.

[A]

Did you guys see that? They had the. The former head of Al Qaeda speak at the UN the other day.

[E]

There's videos of him chopping heads off.

[A]

Yeah, he was a bad guy. Bad hombre. He was. We did an episode on Syria with Brace and he explained like the different factions. This guy was like way up in the north for a while and then he. He kind of like softened. He softened his whole like ideology, allegedly. And now he comes back and he's like apologizing for his pre woke period. He was like, yeah, you know, I wasn't. I dabbled in Al Qaeda and some extremism. But I'm back now. I'm a good guy. Yeah.

[E]

I realized how. I had to take a long look at myself and realized how up it was.

[A]

Yeah. Some soul searching. I hope. I hope you guys can find it in your heart to forgive me as I've forgiven myself. But yeah, he spoke at the UN the other day, which is crazy because I think there was a 10 million dollar bounty on his head back in.

[E]

March that was put on by the United States.

[A]

The United States, yeah. But the United States had $10 million to whoever could produce him. And now he's like, yeah, I'm gonna shake Marco Rubio's hand. Rubio looked pissed to be shaking his hand. He's like, I can't believe they made me meet with this guy.

[C]

You think they turned off the escalator and teleprompter on purpose?

[A]

Yeah. So the escalator talk. They're investigating the escalator. Correct.

[E]

Timing's weird.

[C]

I assume so. I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, the escalator shut down when Trump and Melania were on it. They had to walk up the stairs. It does provide. Like, that is a security issue for sure. If you can just like stop somebody on an escalator. Maybe the president should be in a. In an elevator.

[C]

And then the teleprompter, too.

[A]

The teleprompter shut down.

[C]

Seemed to be working fine for everyone else.

[A]

So who do you think is to blame here?

[C]

Some. Somebody at the U. N. I don't know.

[A]

There will be. There will be sanctions. This will get brought up. We'll get back to macro dosing in a second. It's brought to you by Sport Clips. A classic rookie mistake would be not going to Sport Clips Haircuts. Guys come in looking like they've just been sacked for a 250 pound linebacker, but they walk out looking like a first round pick. Sport Clip stylists have the playbook for a clean cut. They've mastered the X's and O's of men's hair. And with the MVP haircut experience, you get a hot steam towel massaging shampoo and you get the precision cut. It's the whole nine yards. The steam towel is elite at Sport Clips. When you step into Sport Clips, you're walking into a zone for guys. The games are on. The stylists just get it. This is a place designed for guys to win and walk out with a haircut. Ready for the highlight reel. Sport Clips. It's a game changer. This episode's also brought to you by Kraken. If you're going to trade crypto, do it right. No sketchy platforms, no sketchier customer support. That's why we only trust Kraken. Kraken lets you buy, sell, and swap over 300 cryptos without the lag. You don't get the crashes and no, no clownery. If you're buying crypto manually, that's old school. Recurring buys let you automate your investments. So you stack sats without even thinking about it. It's DCA done right. You buy more when prices dip, you buy less when they spike, and you can link your bank in minutes, set it, forget it, and let your portfolio grow. Crack and pay means instant crypto payments. No more excuses. Whether you're covering a lost bet, splitting the tab after a night out, or sending funds for the next wild adventure, Kraken pay lets you move money instantly. Zero fees, no banks holding things up. And if you refer your friends, Kraken will hook you up with up to 200 in USDG just for spreading the love. So quit waiting. Head to kraken.com barstool not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss and it's offered to u. S. Customers, excluding Washington, New York and Maine through payword interactive incorporated. All right, back to cannibalism and the donner party. So the donner party was a group of people in 1846. There were 90 immigrants, which is different from immigrants. I think you call them an immigrant. If you're referring em, he is out.

[C]

I is in.

[A]

Yeah. So if you're referring to people that are leaving a country, it's em, Correct. Somebody that's coming into a country is an IM.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right, so there were 90 immigrants and they were leaving from Illinois back in 1846. They were in. At least a handful of them were in Springfield, Illinois. And before they left, the leader of the group went to go visit with Abraham Lincoln.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who was working as a lawyer in Springfield, Illinois at the time. So this guy named James Reed. So James Reed, he had like, traveled all around the country. He was always looking for the best land. He was really into finding the part of the nation that had the most fertile soil that he could grow on. So he moved to like Kentucky, to Tennessee, Tennessee to Texas. And then he got to Illinois and he was like, this is the best land I've ever seen by far. He told his wife, we're settling down here. We're not moving anywhere. I love Illinois. And then after a few years, he was like, we gotta go. I hear that the land out in California is just way nicer. And then her brother wrote her a letter from California saying, this land out here sucks. The people suck. There's no good business opportunities. So she showed that to James Reed. And James Reed was all bummed out because he had been thinking non stop about California and Yeah. Going. I think the guy just liked an adventure.

[B]

And so, yeah, traveler, he had a wonder loss.

[A]

Yeah. It's like Donnie in. In Illinois right now. He's going to need to stretch his legs and go somewhere at some point.

[C]

How insane do you have to be to love traveling when it's like you're probably gonna die.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Pre plane, you're just riding in wagons.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

When it gets cold, your kids die.

[B]

That's kind of like the glory of this entire story. And I didn't know anything about the Donner Party, but it is this idea of. Inspired by manifest destiny and. And I think PFT used the exact word adventure.

[A]

Yeah. You just want it. You wanted quests.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know, like you wanted to. To get out there and do something. And I've never.

[E]

I've never been on a quest.

[A]

Yeah, you go on quests all the time. You just don't call. If you call them quests.

[E]

I don't go on. I'm not given quests.

[A]

You've. Nick, you've gone on a lot of quests. Every. Rediscovering America. That's a quest.

[B]

Oh, that is. That is pretty quest like, to be fair. Very question.

[A]

It's quest like, but dungeon dragons. That's quest.

[E]

That's a quiet. Okay, I take it back, but like a life or death quest. I'd imagine that's a hard drug.

[B]

Yeah. You saved the soul of Ben Mintz, though. You baptized him in the river of the Mississippi. Yeah.

[E]

And everything's been good after that.

[A]

Yeah. No, a true quest does involve the threat of bodily harm, like, the very real threat of it. And if. If you've been on multiple quests back in the 1840s, I assume that you're pretty good at questing. Like, you're either dead or you're good at questing.

[B]

Well, I don't want to jump ahead in the story, but didn't the Reed family. They were one of the only two families where everybody survived.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he had some. Yeah, he was a great quester.

[A]

So. So this guy, he goes and he. He visits with Abe Lincoln, who's a lawyer, his old friend from the Illinois Militia. They. They were. There were war buddies back in the day. And he's like, abe, I really want to move my family out to California, but I got this letter, and it's telling me that California actually sucks ass. So I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say. My finances are in ruins. I need to leave. I need to get to this great Soil. And Abe Lincoln was like, hey, guess what? I actually have a letter, too. It's from my brother, or maybe it was Mary Todd's brother. And the letter said, california kicks ass. You're gonna love it out here. You tell everybody that you know to move out. So we showed that to James Reed, and James Reed's like, this is all the ammunition I need. And he went back and he told his wife, hey, we are. We're going to move to California. I know that you're bummed out, but you're also a very sickly lady. She had, like. I don't know if she had consumption or tuberculosis, but she basically lived inside all the time in Illinois. And she didn't like warmth. She needed the warmth. That was really the. The only prescriptions you could get back then if you were a very sickly individual. It was like, either move to a different place or have some cough syrup that's got cocaine in it.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[E]

Those are two pretty awesome choices.

[A]

They are.

[C]

Everything had cocaine in it.

[A]

Everything did.

[D]

Also, didn't you go to the sea?

[A]

Yeah. Just be.

[B]

You need some clean air.

[A]

Change the climate.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Need some clean air a little bit. So. Yeah.

[B]

But Mary stopped Abe from going, Right?

[A]

Yeah. So Lincoln wanted to go, and he was. He was really into the idea of moving out to California. He wanted to build the railroad that connected the Transcontinental Railroad. And. Yeah, they offered him a governorship in the Pacific Northwest. And Mary Todd kept saying, we're not going. She was a real wet blanket.

[E]

Mary Todd was a fucking bitch, apparently. I just finished the year ago. Grant was supposed to be in the theater and killed as well.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

But his wife hated Mary Todd so much.

[A]

Yeah. That they didn't go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They opted out of it also.

[C]

You ever looked at her?

[B]

No.

[E]

But Lincoln wasn't much of a looker.

[C]

He was tall.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I did. I disagree. Because, yeah, Lincoln, he had a look. It was a different look. But Adam Driver, you could look at him and be like, not a classically handsome man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But just so unique looking. It's a good point. And tall that women are like. Yeah, I could see it.

[E]

Do you ever play Mary Todd Lincoln with your boys?

[A]

All the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

He's just. Instead of Mary.

[B]

Kill.

[E]

Just Mary. Which one are you linking up with? Yeah, which one are you going to, Todd?

[A]

Yeah. So she said. She said, no, Abe, we're not. Not. We're not going on this adventure. You're going to be president one day.

[B]

Did Abe never make it to California? Did I read that correctly. Did he always pine for California but never go?

[A]

I don't know if he actually made it out there. He might not have, which is really sad.

[B]

Which is crazy to think about, though, that you'd be the leader of the country. I mean, I don't know if it went whenever it became a state, but still wild. It seems like Abe could have made that happen later in life. Yeah.

[A]

If you're. If you're the president.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I feel like you'd be able to arrange the.

[E]

That presidents should have to go to every state.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

Was it a state at the time, though? I don't know. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

This is still like, man, like you said, manifest Destiny. Let's go. I also love that your financials could just be an absolute shambles, but if you had enough charisma, you could just.

[E]

Be like, all right, boys, charisma was very big back.

[B]

We're loading up. We can do this. Let's get it.

[A]

You can pack up and leave, and then you don't have any more debt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's like, okay, you can get out of town. Getting out of town was a very real solution to a lot of problems back then. So. Yeah. Also, at the time, I think it was called Alto California before it was, you know, a territory. Yeah, yeah. Instead of Baja California, which means lower California in Spanish. Alto means high California. Oh, okay. And so people from. It was a Mexican state, but they didn't really develop it that much, which is a real big bummer for people from Mexico. It's like, that's. You had some prime real estate. Right, Right. So, yeah. Manifest Destiny was the doctrine of everyone who's in the United States has the right to just take over the entire continent if we want it. Which is.

[E]

It was told to them by God. Is that what it is?

[A]

Yeah, God. God wants us to take over the entire continent. It's a very flowery way of putting. Yeah, just go take everyone's.

[E]

Imagine being the guy that God told that to. Like, he'd be amped up to tell everybody. Like, guys, guess what?

[A]

Great news.

[B]

Great news.

[E]

It's all ours.

[B]

You felt bad about stealing the native land.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not anymore.

[A]

Now we just have people on TikTok being like, we're all going to die tomorrow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

One person should be like, yeah. God told me that the. Actually the entire planet belongs to us, especially all the beaches. The south of France belongs to the United States. Is God.

[B]

Is Trump trying to build a hotel on the Gaza Strip? Is that Manifest Destiny?

[A]

I think. I think maybe In a way. Greenland. Yeah. Yeah. Now all we get how to manifest destiny is ice. So. So, yeah, they. They go back home, they pack up their. There's. There's a few different families that team up. So the leaders were the two Donner brothers. And then I guess their names were Jacob and George, and then James Reed, he teamed up as well, and they became. They became pretty close friends, and they developed this plan together, and they established a 20 wagon party. And so they wanted to go on the California trail and make it all the way up to the Oregon Pacific Northwest area was the original plan. However, they read a book that kind of changed their minds.

[B]

One of my favorite, or at least.

[A]

Crazy, an educational pamphlet that. That they read. It was called the Immigrant's Guide to Oregon and California.

[E]

And it was exactly what they needed.

[A]

That's exactly what they were looking for.

[E]

What a good find.

[A]

It was written by a man named.

[B]

Landsford Hastings, an incredible scam. Author name.

[A]

Yes, in my opinion, great name. This guy. This guy was a trip. This guy. He. He was an adventurer. So he was one of the first people to go out to the Oregon area and explore the Louisiana Purchase. And he would, like, sell things to people along the trail, and he would give them advice about where to go. And then he wrote a book, the Immigrants Guide to Oregon and California, for people who are looking to venture west. In this book, he said, everyone's taken this. This route that takes you up to Oregon, that takes you up to Washington, but really, you want to be in California. That's what you're going out there for. So either you could go up to Oregon and then spend another couple months coming down the coast, or why don't we just do it in a straight line? It's way faster. If you just did a straight line through Utah and went through the Sierra Nevadas, and I found a mountain pass there that you guys can get.

[E]

Named it after himself.

[A]

Yeah, named it after himself. And it's gonna be perfect. You'll end up in California. You're gonna save hundreds of miles off your. Off your destination as the crow flies, if you just take this path. And so, like, if this takes months.

[E]

Off, like, what was the average lifespan back then? This is like a. I'm gonna save you 3% of your life.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

By taking this route. Who says no to that?

[A]

Yeah, I would absolutely think long and hard about that if I were them. So they. They saw this, and then all the dudes that were planning the. The great adventure and the move, they said, okay, not only is this a Great idea to move out to California. But we have the inside track to how to get there faster. So we're going to be good. Let's start packing our up. And they didn't do a very good job packing their up. They one of mistake number one. Mistake number one is you gotta, you gotta take longer than you think. Like I'm a big time last minute packer. If I'm driving somewhere, if I'm going to like a lake house or something for the weekend, I will do that packing the morning of.

[C]

Have you ever packed for anything more than one day in advance?

[B]

I tell myself I'm going to every.

[E]

I will buy clothes specifically for vacation and I will just put them in like their packaging in the suitcase.

[C]

Love that.

[A]

That's good. When I went to Qatar, I went out, I bought new luggage because I didn't know if at some point in time I put like weed or anything in like another backpack that I had.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you get caught with that over there, like, good, you're going to prison for like 20 years in Qatar. And I didn't want to mess with that. So it was like, okay, brand new luggage. There's no like little bits of weed or seeds or stems or anything?

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

I'm good. Not that I like travel with weed frequently.

[E]

I'm paranoid about that all the time. And I, I'm not like a drug guy, but like what if I did put cocaine in my bag at one point in time?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I've never done any drug in my life besides caffeine. And every time I go through the drug dog at the airport, I'm terrified.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Never once I went, there's no way it could be in my stuff.

[E]

I went to Framed.

[C]

Horrifying.

[B]

I went to New York one time and we bought a bunch of Molly and through the weekend I ended up losing my ID and everything. And I thought we had taken all the Molly. And so to fly without your ID you have to go through like a really intense screening process. But I didn't think I had anything on me. So I was like super chill. It was good. I made it through. And then I got home and I absolutely still had a very prosecutable amount of Molly in that backpack that they were looking at very intensely. And I felt like my stomach dropped out when I, when I found it. But then I was like, oh, well look, I still have all this Molly. Yeah.

[A]

Maybe they don't actually search. That's, that's actually a dangerous thing to happen to you because then in the future you're like, well, they don't really check that much.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I have. At my older age, I have kind of arrived at, like, personal amounts of drugs they maybe don't care that much about. But the harder ones still kind of sketch.

[C]

Feels like a dangerous game to play.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially when you're traveling with your kids. Probably not a good look.

[A]

I was. I was flying from Seattle to Austin. This is. I won't give an exact time frame on it, but it was within the last seven years. And the person I was with in Seattle was a lawyer, and they lived in Austin. And we went out to one of the shops in. In Washington. We bought some. Some weed gummies. And then he had his pack, I had my pack, and we're about to fly back, and he's like, oh, I don't know what I'm gonna do with all this weed, because it's not legal in Texas. And I was like, dude, give it to me. If you get caught with this on an airplane, you lose your job and you lose your license to practice law. If I get caught, I probably get a raise.

[B]

It's probably good for my perfect mule.

[A]

Yeah, it's probably good for my career to get busted with drugs. I might just start booking flights and just.

[E]

Just with drugs.

[A]

What's the coolest drug I could get caught with? Tusi.

[C]

I know what that is, but why don't you tell everyone else?

[A]

It's like the pink cocaine thing.

[C]

Oh, is that what Stefan Diggs?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, he had.

[B]

It's cocaine and.

[A]

Oh, cocaine.

[E]

It's a really aesthetic pink color. Millennial pink.

[B]

Did y' all hear the latest Stefan Diggs allegations?

[C]

I did.

[A]

See that? I did. Yeah. And apparently that dude said it. What? It always trips me up reading his name because it looks like Blake Griffin, but it's not Blake Griffin. It's Chris. Blake Griffith, right?

[B]

Yeah, I believe so. I. I don't know who he is.

[A]

He said it, like, six months ago on a podcast, and then he said it again in more detail recently.

[B]

It reminded me of a story at my graduation party in high school. I had one of my friends who was. He loves women. He did very good with women. And he thought that my little brother, who was sleeping in my bed and was probably, like, 15 at the time, he thought that that was my older sister's friend that he was trying to hook up with because he was too drunk, and he climbed into my bed and started licking my little brother's ear.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[E]

Your minor brother? Yeah, this womanizer Found out he's a gay pedophile.

[B]

Well, that's perfect. He didn't know what to do. My brother did it, and I think he just, like. I don't know. I guess my friend eventually realized he just left the bed.

[A]

Imagine your dad walked in when that was happening.

[C]

That would not have been acceptable behavior if that person was who he thought.

[B]

No, no, no. It's terrible. It is terrible. To be clear, it's not. It's. There's nothing about it that's good, but it is kind of funny.

[A]

But it is true. All right, so these guys, they. They linked up, they started prepping to go on this journey. Didn't do a very good job. I read this one story where the. The dude whose wife was really not trying to go. He was telling her, okay, you got to pack all your up. And she packed all her up. And he was like, you got to throw some of this out. Come on. Why are you bringing.

[B]

Lady.

[A]

She had, like, her. Her wedding dress. He was like, throw that away.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

You don't want that. She packed up all her gowns. He was like, we don't have room for your. Your clothes on this trip. And so she, like, got rid of half of her clothes, and then he was packing up, and he had this cannonball down in the basement or what? Maybe it wasn't a basement. In, like, a shed. And he packs up this cannonball, and he's bringing it onto the wagon. And she's like, what the are you doing? He's like, this is a revolutionary War cannonball. He hadn't, like.

[B]

Guys haven't changed at all. Is that Brandon Walker? It's Brandon Walker. What? Are you kidding me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Come on.

[E]

I love my cannonball.

[A]

It's a starting lineup.

[E]

Brandon, you haven't touched that in seven years.

[C]

I personally can't relate.

[A]

I got this thing PSA graded.

[B]

It's perfect.

[A]

It's game. Game used. Revolution.

[C]

That would be incredible.

[E]

I'm about to head to ebay right now.

[A]

Yeah, let's see what we can.

[B]

Is Brandon just Hank Hilde?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, exactly. So he tries to bring the cannonball onto the wagon. She's like, you have to be kidding me with this cannonball. I just threw away all my clothes and my wedding dress. And he's like, but come on. Your. Your dad gave it to me. It's so cool. And she's like, no, if the cannonball is going, I'm not going. Trying to make a point. So he threw the cannonball away.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

They Also got her very sickly mother to join the trip. She had tuberculosis or consumption is what they called it back then.

[B]

God.

[A]

And he was like, she'll be fine. The air is gonna be way better. She'll be happy. Did you find a cannonball?

[E]

150, 45 shipping.

[C]

Whoa.

[E]

It's a 1 pound cannonball found in the wreck of the British. Wreck of a British gunboat in Lake Champlain.

[A]

I'm gonna buy it.

[E]

Every time I'm on here, you end up buying an artifact.

[A]

I do. I. Well, I have Napoleon's hair.

[E]

That's nice.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I've got one for 28 bucks.

[A]

What?

[E]

Does it have a cooler story? I kind of wanna. These aren't that expensive.

[B]

Wait, but I kind of spend more than $28 on it.

[E]

Well, this one's $50 and it's five and a half pounds. Imagine getting ripped by just lifting Revolutionary War cannonballs. You could sell one.

[C]

I do want one from either the Revolutionary or Civil War. I would like that to be proven.

[A]

Dude, you could. You could absolutely make a workout series.

[E]

Unfired from the Alamo, though. Oh, those unfired ones are pricey.

[C]

I feel like that'd be worse.

[E]

I think you could still shoot it.

[C]

I'd rather have fired.

[E]

I don't know. I'd rather go shoot the cannonball.

[C]

You'd rather have a game warn Jersey than just a run of the mill?

[A]

The way if you. If you shoot a cannonball explodes.

[B]

I was gonna say. Does it maintain its integrity?

[E]

It's probably all up, right?

[A]

I guess it depends on what it hits. But yeah. This is. This is a workout series that you could sell. The. The Minuteman workout. Get Patriot tough.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you do. It's a one minute workout with cannonballs.

[B]

Patriots. I love it.

[A]

Yeah, dude.

[E]

You can make the wheel the cannon.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

You load it.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

It's you. You'd get jacked.

[A]

You would.

[C]

By the way, speaking of the. The cannonball story, do you know what they called their, like, camp? What the men called it? No, they called it the Mad Woman camp because all the women were pissed off to be there.

[E]

I'm going to give them the pass on this one. That's fine. They were probably all synced up.

[A]

Yeah. They're suffering from. They're hysterical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

These wives are. They had histrionic, you know, women. You. You can't live with them, can't live without them. Am I right?

[C]

There's a little entry from someone's journal. It says, Mon14 left the basin camp or Mad Woman camp. As all the women in camp were mad with anger. A bit redundant, but they should.

[A]

Yeah, they should have just not gone.

[B]

They. The adventure spirit we talked about this is another disconnect to me because I feel like there would be a zero percent chance that I would want to cut off those 300 miles.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, if it's already a pretty established path that others have used and they've made it. Like, I don't know that I feel the call to go challenge the norm.

[C]

This is like what you just said about the cannonballs. You don't want to buy a cheap, cheap one.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

But like, let's. If you're on ways on your phone, do you cut through a pretty rough neighborhood to save 15 minutes?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I just follow my GPS. Like, it's like a.

[E]

You don't take a faster route.

[B]

No, I'm saying I would like. I would. I would like whatever the GPS tells me. I just go. Yeah.

[A]

Dudes do love shortcuts, though. If you feel like you're one of the first ones to know about a shortcut.

[B]

See, that's what I think it is.

[A]

I'm smarter than everyone else. We're gonna do it, but we're gonna do it better. Better.

[B]

Yes. I. I think I'm too much of a coward for that.

[A]

I think.

[B]

I think they wanted to be the. They're an adventurers.

[E]

It's something ingrained in men.

[B]

Just.

[E]

You can't say no to a shortcut, I don't think.

[A]

Yeah. And you want to also brag to your wife. I know a shortcut because it makes you seem strong.

[B]

Lancer Hastings knew that.

[A]

Yeah. Lance. Full advantage Immigrants guide So they. So they leave. They pack up their stuff. One of the guys wrote, I am beginning to feel alarmed at the tardiness of our movements and fearful that winter will find us in the snowy mountains of California. They were supposed to leave in mid to late April. That was the ideal time because if you left in the wintertime, you're in the snow. If you leave in the summertime, you start out, it's hot, but then as you get through the autumn, before you get there, you're in the snow.

[B]

Yeah. Long travel.

[A]

So the best part to the best time to leave would be mid April after the snowy season, after the spring's established, and then you get there towards the end of fall. But they didn't leave Independence, Missouri, until May 12, so about a month later.

[E]

So they were a month late leaving.

[A]

About a month.

[B]

And they did a bad job packing.

[A]

Bad job packing. They did have one covered wagon that they bought that was like their, they were very proud of it. The, the luxury cabin which had like a stove that was on it, had a feathered mattress that was for the grandmother who had tuberculosis. And yeah, she actually didn't make it that long. So she, she lasted about I think a month or two and then she died and then all the grandkids.

[E]

She has to know she's not making it right.

[A]

Yeah. And just stay back. I think, I think the, the wife probably knew. My mom probably won't make it all the way to California on a covered wagon. And so then she dies. And the husband's like, sorry that your mom died in the middle of nowhere in a strange land. And she was probably afraid and in a mark grave. But I mean, like, who. We can't point fin this land, babe.

[B]

Trust me. Well, then maybe he gives her the feather bed. Yeah, you like? Look, you can now you can sleep in the feather bed.

[A]

Yeah, you get to chill. You get to chill for the next day or even first class.

[B]

He's like, I'm gonna sleep in the feathered bed. But yeah, the kids will have more room in our wagon now.

[A]

So. So they get out, they leave Independence. And as they're going through Colorado, they make the decision, yeah, we are going to follow Hastings path. Path. We're going to try to go through that pass and we're going to try to try to hit the cutoff here. So they broke off from the normal route and then pretty soon they realized this really isn't much of a trail at all. The normal path was well worn by wagons. It was like as close to a highway as you got back then. A highway for wagons. But the, the Hastings cut off, that was like overgrown. They had to cut down trees.

[B]

That's full grown trees.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

That's not a trail at all.

[A]

No. So they were, they were going like at times just a couple miles a day. Which is crazy because, I mean, you could, if you had to walk and let's say you gave yourself eight hours to just to walk, how long would that take you or how many miles do you think you'd cover a day?

[E]

I mean, eight hours walk of 20 minutes. Walking is a mile.

[C]

Like 20 if you don't stop. Yeah, I guess 24 if you don't stop. So probably 20.

[B]

I think I'd probably average about two and a half miles an hour over an eight hour period.

[A]

Yeah. So they averaged, they averaged about like two miles a day. When they were cutting down trees.

[E]

You can see where you Started.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

That has to be demoralizing as well.

[B]

And it's kind of like, you know, you up. But you're kind of pot committed at that point. So they just kept chopping down trees.

[E]

Did they sell their property in Illinois? They couldn't go back.

[A]

Right. I, I, I think at that point you're pot committed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And also, as a guy, you've convinced your entire family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey, trust me on this one. I've got it. You'd rather die out there than say, hey, I was wrong about everything.

[C]

Let's turn around and imagine talking about the, the Mad Woman camp. If you miss an exit and it takes you an extra 15 minutes, that's a, that's an unfortunate situation if you get there and you're chopping down 30 trees a day.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I can only fathom, I mean, at.

[A]

Some point, mean, not to blame the women, but they should have been like, hey, you should stop and ask for directions. This is a little bit out of hand right now. We've been crossing the Utah salt flat for the last five days. So, yeah, when they weren't chopping down trees, they did have to cross through Utah and the salt flats out there without enough water. I guess they hadn't planned.

[E]

They, like, just made it to a river.

[B]

Right.

[E]

They were really, really dying there.

[A]

They're about to die of thirst and yeah, there were, I think, in the flats from.

[B]

For what is five days. What is a salt flat?

[A]

So it's like the Utah desert is dirt that's also very, very salty because.

[B]

It used to be an ocean or something, I think.

[A]

So it's like that. That's why the Great Salt Lake is.

[E]

It's like, very beautiful looking.

[A]

Right.

[E]

It's like, it's like reflective almost.

[A]

It's cool. It's. I had never really flown over Utah until recently, and it's my favorite place to fly over in a plane. It's beautiful.

[B]

It had to feel really alien to them.

[E]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I would imagine to end up out of the trees and into the salt flat and just all you see is refle. Collective, deadly beauty.

[A]

Yeah, you're, you're basically on the moon.

[B]

It's like white.

[E]

Yeah, it's like gray white.

[A]

Yes. I think it's, like, white. It looked white from, from the plane. I've never been there in person, but, yeah, the, if you're looking for soil, for a man who's obsessed with soil, you know, he saw the salt flat was like, oh, no.

[E]

This is the last thing I wanted.

[A]

Yeah. I hate this place so they're taking the Hastings cut off and they're chopping down trees. It's a back road and they're making absolutely no time. And they pretty much, they start to realize, we're not going to make it in time. We're going to be stuck in some of this snow. And there were some notes that Hastings himself had put up. Now, it's important to note Hastings had never taken this path himself.

[B]

Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. Like, no, no chance. He just wrote this.

[A]

He looked at a map and was like, it's faster to go this way.

[B]

Yeah, look at this gap.

[A]

Than it is to go this way. But he had never taken the path himself, so he didn't know all the challenges. But he had been.

[E]

And maps then were hand drawn.

[A]

Yeah. So it's by somebody's memory.

[E]

Oh, look at this.

[A]

Yeah. There's no. Nobody, like, could verify anything. So he had. Hastings had made his way back to that area and he had like, not taken the full path, but he had left some notes right at the start of the Hastings cut off and he'd like nailed him to a tree.

[B]

Oh, no way. I didn't know that. So they found. Okay, so. So at that point they're kind of thinking like, okay, Hastings knows his.

[A]

He knows his yet. And his. But the notes would say like, hey, I'll be back in a couple days if you're taking this trail. And then he just wouldn't ever show up. So people would stop at his notes and wait for him to come back and just not see Hastings Lansford. Yeah. Ridiculous human being. Also, later on in his life, after the whole Donner thing went down, Hastings ended up writing the Immigrants Guide to Brazil. So he's like, okay, he was the.

[E]

First four dummies guy.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And. And the best part about that is the Donner party got very, very famous. Right. Like, for the tragedy. Right. So he was. He knew what he was directly responsible for. And he's like, ah, I'm just going to keep writing guide books.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, as well at that point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then he tried to. He tried to shuttle people to Brazil with post civil war refugees. Imagine who. Somebody who might be looking to get out of the United States after the Civil War.

[E]

He was a major for the Confederate Army.

[A]

Right. He was. He met with Jefferson Davis, who gave him like an instant promotion because, like.

[E]

The cut of his jib.

[A]

Yeah, bro.

[B]

This guy had to be a charisma king.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Jefferson Davis was like, you will be governor of California and that will Be a Confederate state, and we'll link up and you'll fight on our side in Civil War.

[C]

And, yeah, the phrase, like, if you just act like you're supposed to be there, people will assume that you are in the 1800s, that you could just live your entire life then.

[E]

That way you can just say anything.

[B]

I'm a doctor.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

He ended up dying, taking people to Brazil.

[A]

Yeah. So he. He was not a good guy.

[C]

No.

[B]

Well, he got through one trip to Brazil.

[E]

It was a second.

[B]

Right. Second trip is when he died.

[A]

He. My guess is he probably had somebody that was his guide showed him how to do that to Brazil. And he's like, I got it from here. I think I learned everything I need to know. And then, yeah, the second group hoisted.

[B]

On his own petard.

[A]

Y. Wow. So. So, yeah, they get. They get stuck in the woods, and it starts to snow. And it's really, really snowing. It's coming down, like, feet per day, so the wagons can't make it through.

[E]

I can't fathom 10ft of snow.

[A]

I can't either.

[B]

So this is something that I really locked in on when reading this is because they were about 100 miles away, right. So they were damn close. And technically, still, it was passable terrain, like, they could have made it. And so I just. I keep thinking about the fear as that blizzard rolled in and didn't stop, and they just realized, like, oh, after all this time, all the trees, the salt flats, everything, we're right here at the finish line, and they're just being buried. That had to be terrible. It's like. It's like perfect Storm always scared me growing up when the boat flips over and then it slowly fills up with water. And it's that idea that, like, you know you're gonna die. It's just a matter of time. This is like, that writ. Even, like, larger period.

[E]

Were you afraid you were gonna die before Game of Thrones ended?

[B]

I'm afraid I'm going to die before Doors of Stone ever gets released. Yeah. And that bums me out.

[A]

But which one's Doors of Stone?

[B]

Patrick Rothfuss. My favorite fantasy I've ever read as adults. A King Killer Chronicles. He came out the gate with two just absolute bangers.

[E]

Unbelievable.

[B]

And he's been writing the third for 15, 20 years, and there's a lot of doubt if he'll ever release it.

[A]

Is he closer than George R.R. martin?

[B]

George R.R.

[E]

Martin'S never finishing.

[A]

He's. I don't think he's even started.

[E]

He's he put out, like, a pretty blog post, and he was just like. Like, you guys, I'm not finishing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Raus is a absolute perfectionist in that every single word is, like a delicate little brush stroke. And so I think he has. Or maybe I'm just hopeful that he has most of it written. He just is, like, nervous to release it. And so maybe we'll get, like, a postumus.

[E]

Like, these guys die, and they give it to this guy Sanderson. Sanderson finished the series. That's what he does.

[B]

He did Wheel of Time. Yeah. Yeah.

[E]

He's going to finish Game of Thrones, and he's going to finish King of Killer Chronicles as well.

[A]

Because I could see a guy like that dying and just saying, destroy everything. It's not.

[B]

That's what I'm worried about. And. And I hope that somebody's got some protections built in to avoid that.

[A]

All right, so. So, yeah, they. They start to realize that they're not going to make it through this mountain pass in the winter time. And also, it was an early winter, so the first snowstorm hit, I think, like, early November. And so they said to themselves, okay, maybe this isn't it. Maybe just an early storm.

[E]

But they had nowhere they could really hunker down.

[B]

Right?

[A]

No, they were. They were, like, out in the open. They didn't really know how to build.

[E]

Things, and there were tons of Native Americans just picking them up. Picking off, like, their ox and stuff like that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So at the time, they were. They were encroaching on the native land, and so they would try to hunt their animals for food, sometimes hunt them because they saw them as a threat, and sometimes help them. So there are some stories of them, like, crossing a river and a bunch of Native Americans, they paid them, like, okay, we'll get you across this river safe. And they steered them, made sure that it worked. But, yeah, it was. It was definitely. They were under attack from a lot of stuff at the time, and they're. They're hopeful that maybe it's just an early snowstorm and they'll still have, like, another month to at least get over the Sierra Nevadas. That way we can be going down instead of going up, and we might be able to make it there and everybody will be okay. But then they learned pretty quickly that wasn't going to happen because the snow kept happening. So they killed their animals. They cooked their own dogs. They would boil the animal hide roofs of their cabins and of their wagons, and they would make, like, a pasty soup out of the Small amount of fat that was still in the hide that they used to cover their wagons.

[E]

The kids were loving the rugs. Yeah, they were there. The kids loved rugs.

[A]

They loved it.

[B]

It.

[E]

It's a nice little treat for the boys and girls.

[A]

They would. They would hunt mice that would make little nests inside their lean tos or cabins. And then they would boil the mice in the canvas soup that they had made.

[B]

Mice and canvas mice.

[A]

Canvas soup was a delicacy for them. They just. They ran out of all their food. They had. They had no food left.

[B]

And this is when they're posted up at the lake.

[A]

Yeah, this is when they're posted up at the lake. And they also kept sending different members of the group to go look for help.

[B]

Oh, I do love what they named that party of 15 that set out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. That's sick.

[A]

It happened so many times and so many people. You would send out a party of like 15 people and then that party would get stranded. Then they'd send out like three people from that party to go and they'd give themselves another party name. They'd find more people, bring them back to help rescue them. Then they get stranded, and then one person would have to leave that party and go look for help. World. It was just a disaster.

[E]

None of them knew how to fish.

[A]

Yeah, that's what's weird.

[E]

That blew my mind.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was wondering about that.

[E]

The lake wasn't frozen over.

[B]

Oh, really?

[E]

None of them knew how to trout fish.

[B]

What?

[C]

I mean, I guess there's not a lot of fishing in Illinois. At least at Springfield.

[A]

Brandon disagrees.

[C]

It's great fish again.

[A]

I said in Springfield, there's one fish.

[B]

Well, I know, but I just figured if you're an adventurer like I, I assume somewhere along the line you would have maybe come up with that skill.

[E]

That would be in the top three skills I'd want to know. Yeah, Fire venturing, Fire shelter. Fishing might be better than hunting.

[A]

I think so. Because if you can find. Yeah, if you can find a lake, you got water and you got fish. They're contained and you got fire, you're good to go. But yeah, they didn't know how to fish.

[B]

I assumed it was frozen over. That's insane.

[E]

Big oversight.

[A]

I also feel like every man back then should have known how to fish. Fish. Yeah, right.

[B]

Nobody taught them. They just fed them.

[A]

Like in today's day and age.

[E]

Teach a man to fish.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Every man should know how to. How to buy food at a supermarket.

[B]

I definitely do.

[E]

Imagine you have a group of 86. And just like, I don't know how to.

[B]

I don't know how to check out of this grocery store.

[A]

Does anyone here have Instacart?

[B]

Oh, starving at a grocery store just laying on the ground.

[E]

I ate pft in the Jewel.

[A]

Oscar.

[B]

There'S nothing we could do. It is.

[A]

It's ridiculous.

[C]

I will say, obviously, to the point that nobody can check out of a grocery store is ridiculous. But I don't go in anymore. I bring it out to my car, put it in, and I could go. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I love a grocery store.

[C]

I. I do it on the phone. They put it in my car. I leave.

[A]

Leave.

[C]

And so I feel like in 20, 30 years, like, maybe people don't know what. How to do that.

[B]

Yeah. But you always find.

[E]

But if it was, like, desperate times, you were starving, sure.

[C]

You could figure it out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that. That group that you mentioned, T. Bob, the group of forlorn Hope.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They set out in mid December after they got stranded, and they were trying to get over the mountain and try to find. There were some camps that were allegedly on the other side. They're like, we're gonna go talk to these people. Bring back a search party. And they went with two Miwok Native Americans, Luis and Salvador.

[B]

Man, poor Luis and Salvador.

[A]

And they brought some supplies. I think they. They scavenged up, like a compass and some rice and that type of stuff. Maybe it was flour was at a premium for the people in the camp. But they're like, hey, we're your only hope. You have to give us your supplies. We'll go. We'll go find help.

[B]

Help.

[A]

So they went and they eventually shot both of the guides in the head, butchered their bodies and ate them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, okay. I did. So Lewis and Salvador. Right. They didn't want to eat people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so they ended up being like, we got to get the out of here. Right. And they tried to leave on their own, but then later, the four loan Hope party found them kind of laid out.

[A]

Out. Yeah.

[B]

Like, they had. They had gotten exhausted, and so, I mean, they did shoot them in the head and eat them, and they'd helped him. That's up. But were they already dead?

[A]

They were shot, though. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My guess is they probably wouldn't have used bullets on them if they were already dead.

[B]

No, no, no. I know. I. I mean, like. Like, functionally, like, are you gonna carry these two people who are now exhausted? And, like. I mean, it's up either way.

[A]

I think if you're hanging out With a group of 80 people. And there's a loud commotion about, hey, maybe we should start eating ourselves. I'm with. They're like, let's get the out of here. And then there were probably like five other people that were like, oh, yeah, it's really up to eat people. Good call, Luis. Good call, Salvador. I. I agree. Let's go. Hang on. Let me just get my gun. Yeah, it'll be fine.

[B]

Manifest destiny.

[E]

If you're the only person that's against eating somebody, you're going to be the first one eaten.

[A]

Yeah. For sure. You got to fall into line because you want. Yeah. People won't trust you. It's like, we all have to do this together. Together. So after the party leaves to go look for help. They're starting to think about maybe doing some cannibalism because they're out of food. Thinking about dabbling in it. And I. I want to know how the first person broached that topic because they had some ideas and they all kind of agreed. Once somebody broached it. It's not a bad idea. Maybe we should draw straws for it. Or maybe we should flip a coin. Or maybe the. The person who's oldest should like, volunteer. Someone should volunteer themselves.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For the good of the group. So they drew straws, and this one guy lost. And then they all couldn't do it. Oh. So I think maybe a guy that they all liked was the one that got the short straw.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which completely. It Completely.

[E]

They all knew they wanted to eat.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And they were hoping that it was gonna be that guy. And then when it wasn't, they probably.

[E]

Stuck that straw up real high for his turn.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It's like flip a coin. You'll know what you want to do while it's in the air.

[A]

Yeah. And. And when the guy got the short straw, they're like, we shouldn't do this. We. We've gone too far.

[E]

I have that guy for not like sprinting away or I wonder how he.

[B]

But that's why everybody liked him so much in the first place. Cuz he was like, it. You know what?

[E]

Guys just laid right down.

[B]

You got. You're right. You got to eat me.

[C]

And like, as I'm thinking through this, how could people who didn't know how to fish, Like, I can't. Im. So you kill a guy guy, you've gotta, like, cut him open.

[B]

Well, they could dress animals.

[A]

Yeah. They knew how to hunt.

[B]

They could dress animals. They could hunt. But I guess they just.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Because they ended up Finding like a bear, right?

[B]

Oh, God, that would have been awesome.

[E]

They ate a bear. Have you ever had bear?

[A]

No.

[E]

I did once in Alaska. You can only have it if it's roadkill.

[A]

Horrible.

[B]

It didn't taste like blueberries.

[E]

No, it tasted bad. Gamey, stringy. Gross.

[A]

Is it oily? Yeah, I've heard it's really oily. That might have just been from the book Hatchet.

[B]

Oh, Hatchet was so fun.

[A]

That's a great.

[E]

That's the one that's. Dudes love Hatchet.

[B]

Dudes love Gary Pulse.

[A]

You guys want to reread Hatchet dude?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Elementary school.

[E]

Just a book club and every week it's Hatchet.

[A]

Yeah, that was. That was my fantasy when I was like nine years old. What if I got stranded in the woods? I could survive.

[B]

He could fish though.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Remember he was. He was stabbing down on him.

[A]

He learned about the like the reflection and then. Yeah, he'd learned how to spear him. Them, they did know how to hunt. Some of them knew how to hunt. Knew how to field dress an animal. And so when, when the meat supply got low, that's when they went insane and they said, yeah, okay, maybe we should just start eating each other.

[B]

Am I crazy or did. Did they say something about like they knew where people had died along the way and they'd kind of stored them in the snow a little bit?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then did they like go. They're like, all right, I guess we got to go get Big T's body.

[A]

I think it was like, yeah, they would pop sickle. They would mark some graves and. And I think it all depend on how hungry they were at the time. Like if you died and they were very hungry, they'd be like, okay, we should probably eat this one. But the very first one, they do straws. They couldn't kill the guy. But then like, I'd like.

[E]

I like to think that guy looked. Looked so unappetizing. He's like the ugliest dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Horrible acne.

[B]

It's too skinny. Like, I feel like, like you. I've always thought that I look like I, I'd. I'd be pretty good to eat.

[E]

I agree.

[A]

I think you'd put. You'd be in the top five.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

Dude. Went down to the barstool office, like this back strap.

[B]

I've always said I would volunteer though, cuz my, my legs could feed a lot.

[E]

Your next Mount Rushmore on PMT should be dudes, you want to eat?

[A]

Yeah, dudes you would Eat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We could just even say, like, in this office right now.

[B]

Big T, you. You looking pretty tasty too, man.

[E]

We can feed a bland like a potato. I think it's just like a red hair thing.

[C]

Yeah, sure. I don't have red hair, by the way.

[E]

Strawberry blonde.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of. It's kind of red brown, brother.

[E]

Oh, beard is.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He gets very upset when you said.

[C]

Well, it's just factually inaccurate. It's going gray. It'll be gray in a little while.

[A]

Max would probably be up there, I think, for like a holiday.

[B]

A little gamey.

[E]

I think, like, it could be like a cheap.

[B]

He'd be a crock.

[E]

Pot meal. You leave the house a Christmas feast. But I think, like, we're doing kb.

[B]

KB seems small, tough.

[A]

Yeah. Not is. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

[B]

Tough meat. Yeah.

[E]

Maybe he's a bit.

[A]

That's what I. That's how I would lobby for not eating me. I be like, I'm so small. I'm just a little guy. Yeah.

[E]

But you'd be like, ve.

[A]

Yeah, maybe.

[B]

I feel like Dana would taste pretty good.

[A]

Dana would be. Yeah. Nice. Marbling.

[B]

Yeah, dude. Egyptian. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that'd be good.

[C]

What do we think about Brandon?

[E]

Brandon would be greasy.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

I think I'd feel like afterwards.

[A]

Yeah. Probably puke. I'd probably eat them and throw.

[E]

How offensive would that be if you ate me and puked me up?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That'S what I was gonna say.

[A]

Calories with Brandon, depending on how old I was. Like, these.

[C]

These guys, they were in their, what, 40s? Like, like, you know, toward the end of their lives at that time, if it's like, hey, listen, we're gonna start eating people. I'd be like, y'.

[A]

All.

[C]

Y' all can just kill me. I don't.

[B]

I don't know. I think. But isn't there with the end of the lives thing, Isn't there a thing where it's like, yes, life expectancy was short, but because you made it. Yeah, but if you made it past X age, you actually had, like, a pretty good chance of living a long life.

[A]

Yeah. You would probably live till 50s, 60s if you made it past.

[E]

Skew the data.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

12.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if. Yeah, if you got sick before the age of 12, you were. You're pretty much done.

[C]

But even so, if it's like, hey, we're going to eat people in hopes we can make it a little while longer, I'd be like, just go and kill me.

[A]

I think there's. There's got to be some sort of survival instinct. That kick that kicks in. I don't think I would do it either.

[E]

But everybody says that.

[A]

Everyone says that.

[B]

I would just.

[A]

If you're, like, crazy hungry, you haven't eaten in. In weeks.

[B]

I know. I would just want y' all all to spread rumors after you ate me that I just had, like, an obscenely large penis. Yeah.

[E]

It took us, like, three days.

[B]

So I did. Yeah, so I did just like. Like, Rasputin. Rasputin's dick has echoed through time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I want to be famous for just having a crazy big haul. That would be amazing.

[C]

Is that true? I've never heard that.

[B]

Yeah, Rasputin, he used to. He used to women to, like, spiritually heal them. Wow.

[A]

His penis is on display.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

You're kidding.

[B]

No. If it really is his penis, it's a massive pickled penis.

[C]

Where is this?

[B]

13 inches?

[A]

Probably somewhere in Russia.

[E]

And that's shrunken, too.

[B]

Like, oh, my God.

[A]

You have to imagine. Yeah. It's been sitting in formaldehyde or whatever. No.

[E]

Somebody stole Napoleon's penis, right?

[B]

Yeah. It couldn't have been that big.

[E]

Did somebody still Napoleon's.

[B]

Look, this is. I mean, this is supposedly Rasputin's penis here, T. You see that? Look at that thing.

[C]

That.

[E]

No, that can't be it.

[B]

Thing, dude.

[C]

No, it's not.

[B]

That's.

[E]

That's of a beast.

[B]

I told you, dude. He was. He had, like, a 13 inch.

[A]

Yeah, you either. If you're Rasputin, you. You have to become, like, a soothsayer at that point, or else they're going to think that you're Satan.

[C]

He did what you're doing.

[B]

He would the hysteria out of women. No, but he would while he was alive. I'm doing a different thing where I'm just lying and trying to get it, like, to echo through time.

[A]

Time.

[B]

It's pretty. That might not be his dick, but it is, I would say, confirmable that he had a massive dick.

[C]

It's the first I'm hearing.

[A]

So they. They. They drew straws, but they Also. One of their better ideas was, we'll draw straws, but two people are gonna lose, and then those two people will duel.

[C]

And that seems fair.

[A]

Yeah, that seems also, like, that's better. They wanted a sport. They wanted to watch sports. Like, this is. This is cool. We get to what a matchup we got tonight.

[B]

Do you think they had side bets on the, like. Like, choicest cuts of meat?

[A]

Yeah, I got dibs on probably the Quad would be one of the first ones.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's, you know, if X. If X wins, then I get the quad. If the other guy wins, you get the quad.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like the ribs would be really hard to do because that. You're reminded.

[E]

That's so human.

[A]

Yeah. When you're eating a rib, you know exactly where that came from. Neck probably the same.

[B]

I mean, almost is. Is this backstrap, you know, like you ever had fried back strap from a deer? So good.

[A]

Good.

[B]

I always feel like that'd be pretty tasty.

[E]

That's where baking is coming from, right?

[B]

Really? Yeah. That makes sense.

[A]

Then the ass might be good.

[E]

Ass might be good. But then you imagine getting the chin.

[B]

It's like a chin on your dad chin again, Mom.

[A]

Yeah, you'd want. You want outer ass. You want like, I got the top of the ass.

[E]

Like a calamari.

[A]

That's. That's. That's the cut. You don't even want like the inside of the cheek. You gotta just say just the bottom of the ass, please, for me. So, yeah, they tried to do due duals, but eventually what happened after they. They discussed this out and they planned. Here's the most fair way to do it. Like a day later, people started to die. And so they died naturally. And then they just. They ate some of them. And yeah, it. They've. The legend of the Donner party made it after they eventually got rescued. And not everybody got rescued. I think. What I haven't read. How many people. How many people of the original 47 survived.

[B]

Of the 84, 11 men, 36 women and children.

[A]

Okay, wow. So the relief parties got to the settlers in February of 1847, but they didn't have that many supplies. And so by the time they got there, they were too weak to travel. Some of them died from the rescue efforts because they brought them food and they gorged themselves and died. So when you're like, starving to that extreme, you can't eat a lot. You have to be like, slowly.

[E]

That would be the worst. You're in the clear pretty much. And you ate too much.

[B]

It's like, I would have to hurt so bad too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like the soldiers who die in, like, a pointless final battle.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where like, the treaty's already been signed or something. Just brutal.

[E]

Did anybody die on the lifeboat of the Titanic?

[A]

Nick.

[B]

I'm sure.

[E]

Yeah, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

That would be a bummer, too.

[A]

You're like playing charades to pass the time and you accidentally slip over the edge.

[B]

Yeah. Damn.

[A]

It. I was so close. So after the rescuers met up with the. The stranded members, they made their way back to their camps and stuff, and the story of what happened started to come out in the press, come out in the news, word of mouth, and it was sensational. It was a crazy story. And they even, like, exaggerated some of the tales and made it out to be like it was just an entire pack of roving cannibals. Many of them were cannibals, but they made it out to seem like it was, like, more. Way more brutal.

[B]

They wanted to eat people.

[A]

Yeah, it's brutal, but they made it out to seem like they. They relished in the opportunity.

[E]

That's not quite fair. They've been through a lot, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Does anybody else find it funny that it's. It's the Donner Party, very close to.

[C]

Dinner party, when I'd never heard of any of this? And I thought this was some sort of cabal of cannibals who made that joke? That was, like, the thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then I read. I was like, wow, way off.

[A]

So as these stories came out, they needed, like, a leader to blame. They needed one guy to be like, it was this guy that. That did it. And that person ended up being Louis Kesselberg. And Louis Kessberg was Prussian. And he was the last guy that they found in 1847. It was April of 1847, and they found him with a cauldron of cooked flesh and discarded bones. That's the last thing you want to be found with. That's.

[E]

That's pretty incriminating.

[B]

It's a witch in the woods.

[A]

That's a guy that. Almost, like, you wonder, could he have been rescued? And he was like, I just, like, it's kind of nice out here. I got my thing going.

[E]

Cauldrons are never for good reasons. It's always nefarious having a cauldron.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You can have a pot.

[E]

You can have a pot, but you.

[C]

Can'T have a cauldron.

[A]

What do you have in there? Is it a soup, or is it some sort of witch's brew?

[E]

What are you doing with that eye at newt.

[B]

Yeah, I. I always. I mean, it's funny, too, because I guess it doesn't exist anymore, but Prussians were. Prussians were always around in American history. Yeah. Prussians were always hanging out. Mercenaries, adventurers, futurers. And now they're, you know, you don't.

[A]

Hear too much about the Prussians anymore. Like, I'm of Prussian descent. You don't hear. You say, that.

[C]

How would you characterize a vat?

[E]

A vat is something you fall in to become a superhero.

[C]

Scientific or less so can they be positive or negative?

[E]

Yes.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Cauldron exclusively bad.

[A]

A vat. Yeah, it could be a scientist that has a vat of something that they're working on a new formula.

[C]

Sure.

[E]

But that can also be for like a larp, right?

[A]

Yeah, you can render in a vat, but yeah, a cauldron. You've got a giant wooden stick that you're stirring a child around.

[E]

I would love to do like the. An alignment chart of vessels, liquid vessels from like.

[A]

Yeah. Chaotic good.

[E]

True neutrals cup.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Chaotic evils.

[B]

Cauldron.

[A]

Yeah. Chaotic good would be Beer bong.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, we should make that chart.

[B]

Yeah, that's a pretty good idea. Yeah.

[A]

So they, they found this Prussian dude, Keseberg, and he had, he had a cauldron. He had discarded bones with him. And he was also found that there was a child that was hanging up on the wall of a cabin like a slab of meat or. Sorry, I'm. I'm engaging in conjecture regarding the Prussian little yellow journalist. I'm no better than, than the set settlers. There were rumors from some of the other kids. The other kids that they, that they found that had survived said that he had taken one child to bed with him and the next morning the boy was dead, hung up on the wall like a slab of meat. And later on they ate him. He was accused of murdering the others to use his food, but the charges weren't proven. But he became the big time villain. Yeah, so he and his wife, they, they came from Germany and he was, he was an abusive guy in general. So, so it was easy. Got a point at and be like it was this guy's fault. So yeah, the kids, they kind of rationalized it. The kids in the camp that survived because they said the adults told us to eat this food. Which I think that's like, if an adult tells you to and you're a kid, I mean.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It had to taste good after the canvas in my soup.

[A]

You know what though? No them kids, because kids will be like, I don't like broccoli. And then they can just get away with not eating broccoli. They could have been like, I don't want to eat a human. And you, you tell me that the parents were like, no, you have to eat your human.

[B]

Eat your human or yeah, you can't.

[A]

Have any of the bear unless you finish.

[E]

So you filled up on rug.

[A]

Yeah, there was this One story about them. They. They sent out, like, a party to go. Maybe it was when they killed the bear, or it might have been when they killed a deer, because they did get a couple deer, but a hunting party went out to go hunting, and everybody else at the camp was, like, super hungry, and they're like, they're never coming back. I guess we should just eat James. And so they. They carved up James and they ate him. And then, like, six hours later, the hunting party came back with a full deer for everybody. What happened to James?

[E]

Yeah, you have to lie to him with James on the breath.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, we're kind of full. Yeah.

[C]

No, thanks.

[A]

James love deer. I. I promised him he'd have. He'd have the backstrap. Is he here? Where is he? So, yeah, they. They kind of said our parents told us to, and we kind of just did what they said. And James Reed, the leader, became a. A business leader in San Jose. I wonder if anything out there is named after him.

[B]

The kids can. Oh, yeah, probably.

[E]

He's kind of gotten out because it was called the Donner Reed Reed party.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

And now it's just Donner.

[B]

Both Donners died. Yeah. Right.

[E]

So he's kind of made out.

[A]

Yeah. Reed probably had a lot to do with that. Reed was probably like, hey, yeah.

[E]

Oh, you mean the Donner party.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. The Reeds and the Breens are the only families, I think, out of a dozen, that managed to not lose a single member of the family.

[A]

So if I was. If I was the Reed guy, I would make it to California, and then I would just start newspapers, and then I would just always write stories about the Donner Party, Donner this, Donna that.

[B]

I do love that. I do love the kind of elastic nature of a children's. Of a child's brain where, like, it said that, like, not a lot of the kids had a ton of psychological issues.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, the adults were all up forever, but, you know, many of the kids went on to leave normal lives.

[A]

Yeah. So, yeah, that's one of the more probably the most famous American story of cannibalism.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's also the. The plane crash with the Uruguayan rugby team.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In that movie Alive, where they ate the. The guys that had died. I feel like that's a uniquely rugby story where it's like, they probably had that conversation pretty early on.

[E]

They probably had it months ago.

[A]

Months ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, we're having it right now. Yeah. About who to eat in this office.

[E]

North Korea, I think in 2013. The famine. They were resorted to eating people. Yeah, I read an article yesterday because just researching up of like a guy kind of defending, he's like, it's not as weird as you think. Like you. Like here in the west, we bury the bodies to get eaten by bugs. And then he was just like, you, I bet you bite your fingernails. I was like, dude, quit.

[B]

You got me there.

[A]

You ever eaten a booger? Do you swallow during the course of the day? Guess what you're swallowing?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Human spit.

[E]

Were you breastfed?

[A]

Yeah. Checkmate. Also placenta.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People eat the placenta sometimes.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

That's probably different from the flesh of a dead human being.

[B]

But there is a lot of. This did make me realize there's a lot of cannibalism tied into medicine throughout human history as well. I think the craziest thing this sent me down though, was in, in the, in the, in the prep sheet, there was a. Not a throwaway line, but a line about how China doesn't kind of hold cannibalism in the same taboo nature that maybe we have, and that there was some instances of casual cannibalism in China.

[E]

Not like choosing that over other food.

[B]

And it's fucking crazy what is alleged here. I've got, I've got, I've got a couple stories here.

[A]

Sure do.

[B]

Kwan of key. This is 7th century BCE. It was claimed that he was curious about the taste of steam child because he had eaten everything else. The cook Charlie Sheen problem. Yeah, we've gone full circle. This is all dick feel here. It's all rich people doing this. And so the cook allegedly killed his son, prepared the dish, and Duquan said it was the best food of all in the seventh century. This says wealthy men, including the son of an emperor, serve the flesh of purchased women or children during lavish feasts. And it again says Key Ray Chong concludes that quote learn cannibalism was often practiced for culinary appreciation, and exotic dishes were prepared for jaded upper class palates. Yeah, once again, Dick feel. And the last one is in the 10th century. Officials are rumored to in the Gin dynasty apparently eat the flesh of babies and children. And they have accounts from the 12th and 14th century that indicate that both soldiers and writers praised the flesh as being particularly delicious, saying that children's flesh was unsurpassable in taste. Huh.

[C]

Yeah, I, I guess it defends a veal thing.

[A]

If you were one of these people people and you did eat baby, you would have to go on record to say it was a delic. You got a del coffee and it was delicious.

[B]

Yeah, you got to just.

[A]

You can't. If you eat baby and then you're like, it really wasn't good. Yeah.

[C]

Kind of.

[A]

Babies. Babies are gross.

[E]

That was a mistake, like not finishing it. Getting a to go bag.

[A]

Yeah. Yuck. Yeah. I think it was spoiled maybe. I don't know. But yeah, that's bad.

[B]

I'm be looking at my son tonight. Like, imagine, give me a little bite.

[E]

Imagine when you're a few hours later, like you have to feel like regret.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Was it worth it?

[C]

Oh, that's when you feel the regret.

[E]

No, but like, it's just. You're reminded of it again.

[B]

It does drive it home. Yeah. Anytime you do something bad, there's always those moments of self reflection where it hits you again like a ton of bricks and out. A child would probably be one of those.

[E]

The biggest. I was. I was assuming that cannibalism is horrible for.

[B]

For you.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

And I was reading that it's really not unless you eat the brain.

[B]

Yeah. Is that right?

[E]

That's what I was reading. And it kind of gives a you a human version of the mad cow disease.

[B]

And. And I. I knew you got the shakes and everything, but I thought it was all human flesh. But it's maybe just the brain, apparently.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Called kuru. K U R U. It's like the human form of. Of mad cow disease that you can get. And yeah, you. You tremble, you eventually die. So it. Yeah, it infects your brain and it up. There's people in Papa New guinea that have been known to practice cannibalism. So in the 1950s, they would eat the bodies of their own relatives as a favor to their relatives. It's like that's.

[E]

Keep them living on through you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And like that's how they would cleanse their relative spirits after they died. Like they were still dirty until your. Your own flesh and blood ate you.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Kind of crazy. That's like. That's the snake eating its tail.

[E]

Are you on the medical News today article right now?

[A]

I'm not, no.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

That's the guy that's like. I'm thinking he might be a cannon.

[A]

Yeah. He was like, it's really. You're being pretty judgmental about other cultures right here.

[B]

Meat is me.

[A]

Yeah. So the term kuru came from Papua New Guinea. It's their word for shaking. So it's just like you got the shakes.

[E]

One of the side effects is emotional instability. Just like you ate a man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think we call that ptsd. So, yeah, they. Some of Them developed a genetic mutation that protects them from kuru. Wow. So if you, if you are immune to kiru and you are from Papua New guinea, it's probably because somebody in your lineage. Eight people. And that's why you can do it.

[B]

New guinea seems horrifying. Have you ever heard about any of the, like, World War II campaigns in New guinea and everything? Yeah. It just seems like absolute hell on earth.

[A]

Yeah. Some people got eaten there too. I think there's a rumor that Amelia Earhart. Is it Earnhardt. Earhart. Amelia Earhart.

[E]

Her two people that crashed.

[A]

Yeah, it's very. Yeah. When she crashed. Allegedly. Some, Some people think that she was eaten by cannibals in Papa. New Guinea. Some people think that she was eaten alive by crabs, too. Like giant crabs rolled up on her after she crashed. Yeah. She probably just crashed into the ocean.

[E]

Crash in the ocean.

[B]

She must not have it. Yeah. Right.

[E]

Just red hat.

[B]

She would have been fine.

[A]

Gary Paulson's writing that. He's like, never again. Yeah. In China. T Bob, you were mentioning it back during the Cultural Revolution, some people there.

[B]

Were countless, like, Chinese starving cannibalism anecdotes.

[A]

Yeah. So when all the privately owned land was taken over, there was a big, big famine, and then they started to eat each other because they were too hungry, and they would trade their kids for the children of their neighbors so that they wouldn't kill and eat their own kids.

[B]

Oh, boy. Yeah. It's dark. I was, I was, I was talking to.

[C]

It's just killing your kid. I mean.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

At that point. Have the balls to do it yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I actually. Yes, actually. Yes. I agree. I, I didn't think. I agreed at first, but now I think it's dignifying.

[C]

It's definitely to pass it on off.

[B]

If you're going to do it, if you're going to kill your kids anyway, you got to, you have to, you got to pull the trigger.

[A]

Yeah. I, I, I don't want to say either one has a lot of dignity.

[C]

They're both terrible options.

[A]

Yeah. I think the way to go about it is be like, tell your kids, kill me.

[C]

Yeah, fair enough.

[A]

Eat me.

[B]

Yeah. But kids used to die so much. Who knows? Maybe they just didn't hold them in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As high of esteem.

[A]

Maybe you could tell, like, this kid's not gonna make it. He's. He has no skills.

[B]

Like, I, I know in Roman history, they kind of largely ignored kids until they got past the dying age.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're like, okay, I Can engage with. You're a human.

[A]

I respect you. Yeah. You're a man.

[E]

Human life doesn't start till five.

[A]

There's. There's a guy. He's a zoologist named Bill Shut. He wrote Cannibalism A perfectly natural history.

[B]

This is. Lock him up. Lock him the up.

[A]

Here's one take that he had. I don't want to make it sound like an assertion that this is definitely going to happen, but if you look at the key reasons why cannibalism occurs across nature, it is usually due to overcrowding or a lack of alternative forms of nutrition. In the west, we have a layer of culture that prevents us from cannibalizing. But we know that cannibalism has taken place with humans during famine and with all the changes that are taking place due to global warming. Like desertification. Desertification. It's not a stretch that cannibalism might occur if large groups of people were suddenly without food.

[B]

He can't wait.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[E]

And he.

[B]

Wait.

[E]

He's trying to convince other people. So he's not the weirdo.

[A]

He's got a cookbook. Just in case. Just in case this all goes down. But shout out to. To Hastings for writing that. That pamphlet. What?

[E]

And we've been making light. For the record. I'm anti.

[A]

Anti cannibalism.

[E]

Anti.

[A]

Yeah, I think I'm probably anti cannibalism too. Yeah, I'll go there. I'll say it. I'll take a stand. I don't think I would eat human. I really don't. I think I just. Because there were a lot of people in the party that didn't. We talk about the ones who did.

[B]

Wait, There were a lot of people that didn't. I just assumed they survived.

[A]

No, there were a lot of people that didn't eat human. And they just said, I woke up this morning, I'm really hungry. I'm really weak. I don't feel like killing somebody. I don't feel like eating a human being. I'm just gonna sit by the fire and smoke my pipe and I'll see you guys later. I think that's probably what I would end up doing at some point.

[E]

Yes.

[A]

Just be like, you guys have fun with your little.

[E]

Imagine the high horse those people got to be on that. They survived and didn't eat a person.

[A]

Dude. I would. I would actually run away just so that they wouldn't find my body. I think that's probably what I do. I'd run away to die.

[B]

Is it bad that I just assumed I would eat people the entire time. Well, well, no, you have because you get hungry. Yeah, being hungry sucks.

[C]

I mean, on the first day we all would have eaten.

[E]

Forgetting how bad it sucks to be.

[B]

No, no, no, I'm not, I'm not saying yes. No, I'm talking about like, yes. Being driven to actual.

[C]

How many days. How many days until you eat Hunger.

[B]

Right. I'm just saying I don't know what it's like to be in that situation. I assumed we were all going to eat humans.

[A]

Well, I, I think that there's a chance that there's something that kicks over mentally where you, you, you go into just savage.

[E]

Primal.

[A]

Primal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If that happens, then I don't think anyone can say like, okay, I definitely wouldn't.

[E]

I don't think you can fault these people.

[A]

Yeah, I can fault maybe, maybe a couple of them. Maybe the guy that had the cauldron with the kids.

[E]

Cauldron?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Never.

[C]

Cauldron.

[A]

Yeah, the Prussian guy probably would. Would.

[B]

Prussians, Barbarians.

[A]

Yeah. There's probably one dude that took the. After the second or third time, he started to take the, the preparation really seriously. He became like a chef.

[B]

Yeah, that's when it gets a little disconcerting.

[A]

When you start to crave it, he comes. Ways to prepare it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, we're going to mix it in with, with the boiling paste.

[B]

Now, chaps told me about somebody right before I walked in the room. And so I don't know much about him, but this guy, Albert Fish, and I guess he was a serial killer in the late 19th century, early 20th, and he said that he would kidnap kids, kill them, eat them, and then write anonymous letters to their parents about how he prepared them and ate them.

[A]

Them. Oh, my God.

[B]

Bad guy. What a. Yeah, yeah. Ended up getting the electric chair, I guess.

[A]

There was this one. I, I forget which famous killer it was, but he, he would chop up his victims, he would eat them, but he would keep their heads in his freezer. And the flesh, once it started to spoil, he would just like put it down his sink and like his kitchen sink and did his garbage disposal. Yeah, I don't know if he had a disposal.

[B]

Oh, yeah, probably not.

[A]

He would just flush it down the sink. And he lived in. It wasn't. I don't know if it was an apartment or if it was like a collective group of small houses that all shared a septic. Septic tank, but everybody's sink in that little apartment area started to smell bad.

[E]

Oh, I'd be so pissed.

[A]

They couldn't flush Their toilets. Right. And they called out the. The sewage guy who came to the house. And so he goes out to the. Out to the tank, and he's like, yep, you got a clog here. He opens it up and he's like, that's just a lot of flesh that's in here. So the sewage guy called the cops who showed up, and they're like, yeah, this guy. The smell is coming from this guy's apartment. And that's how he got Stupid. Stupid serial killer.

[B]

Did y' all see Rico try to drink the milk last night? I was there. Yeah, that's right. Do you think he would have an easier time eating human flesh?

[E]

So there was a. We played Clue yesterday.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

If you're older, six. You had to drink a cup of whole milk.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

Didn't get to move to slow down the game. That set Rico off. He said he hasn't liked milk since 93.

[A]

What happened? 93?

[E]

He wouldn't tell us, but he said he would rather do the smokehouse for the firehouse training again than drink a half cup of whole milk. And so he took a sip of the milk, and this body started gyrating as if he was hula hooping. And then he just started dry heaving after one sip until he broke all the blood vessels in his forehead and around his eyeballs.

[B]

It was. It was like, if you've never seen anything. Like, have you ever. When you get rabies, you can get hydrophobia. Yes.

[E]

It was like. Like, I've seen those videos.

[B]

Yes. And it was like somebody reacting to hydrophobia.

[C]

I don't know that I take it to that extreme, but drinking milk is gross.

[E]

But it was whole milk. It tasted like. No, we were like, rico, do you like ice cream? He's like, in between heaves, he was like, I love ice cream. Like, what about milkshakes? Like, can't get enough.

[B]

It's.

[A]

I'm watching the clip right now. Yeah, he is.

[E]

Rico, what is it you don't like about milk?

[A]

I have hated it since 19.

[E]

Love it.

[B]

Yo, chill. He's got to drink a glass of milk.

[A]

Guys, lay off him.

[B]

He's going through it right now.

[E]

You can never be Santa.

[A]

Oh, no. There's no way. Thought it was pretty.

[B]

I'll drink.

[C]

If he pukes, I'm puking.

[A]

He is just.

[B]

It's like his body is. Is. His body is n. Like, naturally just rejecting it.

[E]

It was like he was like. You know when. Like, somebody gets saved in a Baptist church.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[E]

Of a demon.

[B]

Yeah. I've seen people Speak in tongues. And my mom grew up Pentecostal.

[E]

Did you have a snake handling churches down in Louisiana?

[B]

No. That seems like, that seems like a very. I've seen channel five, which is a great YouTube channel. He's gone to snake handling churches in West Virginia and covered them. And it's like this one preacher is like, dad died doing it. It's like brother died doing it. Yeah. They're still, still in it.

[A]

I think that would bring great shame if you, if you got bit by a snake and then you got treatment for it.

[B]

Yeah, No, I, I don't think. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I think you have to just ride it out.

[A]

Yeah. Trust in God, like 50% you die, but you could also just live because the, the venom is not always poisonous. Right.

[B]

The.

[E]

And then if you live, it's a miracle. You're probably a revered as a God.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Weep a big T. You don't like drink milk at all? That's been my favorite part about moving to the Midwest is chocolate milk here. Incredible. Edible.

[C]

You're just housing milk.

[E]

I'm not anti milk.

[C]

No.

[B]

I, I don't house. I. As a child I would house milk. But we've been buying this glass milk. It comes in. Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. What I say? I don't know what I said, but yeah, that overvice. Oh, glass milk is so good.

[C]

Are you a milk with steak guy?

[B]

No. That's crazy.

[C]

I've heard a lot of offensive linemen do that.

[E]

Milk and steak.

[B]

Yeah. I did have a, a Cajun buddy on the team who like anytime he had to gain weight weight, he would just drink milk and eat peanut butter jelly sandwiches. Well, that's which is like the most classic badass.

[E]

My mom would always get milk with spaghetti. I don't know why. See, I wasn't seeing gumo. That me up though.

[B]

I've never seen gummoe. I want to see gum. I just watched a whole documentary the other day, again, Channel 5, about the guys behind bum fights.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

And how they were inspired by gummoe and all this other stuff. And they've actually gone on to be like, like pretty incredible, like art provocateur, rebellious.

[E]

It's start with bum fights.

[B]

But again and again, the original mission of bun fights is not what it eventually kind of got co opted into, but the original mission.

[A]

What was the original mission of bum fights?

[B]

What could they claim? They, they claimed that they were, you know, they had the two guys in town and they were like trying to kind of highlight how up society could be. I. I don't know.

[E]

They wanted to see bums fight.

[B]

Yeah, but I need to see get.

[E]

Into rough and rowdy. We at least give him $200.

[A]

You guys remember Kimbo Slice? Oh, yeah, the legend. He was the bum you did not want to fight, right?

[B]

What was the porn in which he would help the women off the bus? Do you know what I'm talking about? No. In the club. Vip, something along those lines.

[E]

I don't know.

[B]

It's a series where women would go to the club and then there would end up being an orgy in the club. But Kimbo Slice was a security guard. He'd always be helping them off the bus.

[A]

Very nice of him. I remember he. They. They tried to turn him into an MMA fighter later.

[B]

Remember that?

[A]

I think he had a knockout in his very first fight.

[B]

He the guy up.

[A]

Yeah. But then his second fight, he couldn't move. He just had zero cardio. Yeah, it did.

[E]

Look, his longest fight was probably like five seconds.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, he. One time he punched a guy's eye out.

[E]

What a. What a great name.

[B]

Legend. Yeah. Kimbo Slice. Legendary. Miami, right? Miami Street Fighter.

[A]

Yeah. Yep.

[E]

I wasn't sure.

[A]

Yeah, I think he was. He was originally hired to do security for that porn company. And then they're like, dude, this guy is so good at beating the.

[C]

Out of. I must be so unfamiliar with the lore on this guy. I thought he was just an MMA fighter.

[A]

No, no, no, no. He was street famous street fighter for a while.

[B]

Oh, wow. His real name is Kevin Ferguson. Died at 42.

[E]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

That ruins everything.

[B]

I know. I'm sorry.

[A]

Dude, he was a Ferguson.

[B]

Kevin Ferguson finished 4 and 2 in his MMA career. Okay, okay. Coordinate security for Internet porn website Reality Kings.

[E]

Died of heart failure.

[B]

What if you're on steroids?

[A]

Gotta be Kimbo. Yeah, probably. All right, well, Nick, thank you for joining us.

[E]

Yeah, guys, thank you for having me.

[A]

I'll let you get out to the yak. Have a good one, T. Bobby, want to stick around for a little bit longer here?

[B]

Yeah, I'm down. Yeah, I got. Yeah, I got nothing due to a roughness in a couple hours.

[A]

All right, sweet.

[E]

Calls it by the other name of that podcast.

[A]

He. He goes. Unnecessary.

[C]

Calls it unnecessary.

[B]

Who does?

[A]

Nice of you to call it roughness. Love that. We'll get back to macro dosing in a second. It's brought to you by Shady Rays. I've got my Shady Rays right here. Polarized sunglasses. Elite sunglasses. And the best, best guarantee in the business. You know, the moment that you get sometimes where you realize that you left your favorite sunglasses at the beach or on the roof of your car or at a gas station three states away. Well, I've been there too. But then I found Shady Rays. It changed the game. These sunglasses are made for real life. They're seriously good looking. They're polarized, durable, and not stupid expensive. And here's the wild part. If you lose them or if you break them even on day one, Shady Rays will send you a brand new pair of wear. No guilt trip, just replacements. So now I actually wear my sunglasses all the time, without fear. On hikes, at concerts, on the boat, wherever, at the beach, you name it. Shady Rays is eyewear that has your back. We've teamed up with Shady Rays to bring you an exclusive offer. Head to shadyrays.com use code macro get 30 off polarized sunglasses. Try for yourself. The shades rated five stars by over 300, 000 people. Shady rays T. Bob. Well, I feel like I should talk some college ball with you guys because that's, that's the zone I'm in right now. It's a hard pivot in between you two. I'm just surrounded by ball knowers right now.

[C]

I do love, appreciate that moniker.

[B]

I think T knows definitely more from a gambling perspective than I do, though.

[A]

Well, I'm just. I've been trying to talk people into Miami because I feel like Miami's not getting.

[C]

Trying to talk people into.

[E]

I feel like people are pretty.

[B]

I feel like people are pretty hard. I've been the biggest Miami haters, and even I've had to give myself over.

[A]

To Miami because I, I was looking at Miami. I've watched every game that they played. And before last weekend, I was saying, this is a team that could definitely win the national championship, in my opinion. But then I would hear like, maybe it's all smoke and mirrors. Maybe you shouldn't trust Mario Crystal Ball.

[B]

I've called him Mario Chris the fraud for years.

[A]

I think that there's some, some truth to that, that he's. I don't think he's a fraud, but I don't think he's the smartest coach in the world.

[B]

Here's all I'll say. And he's proven me wrong, and I hope he continues to prove me wrong, because I like when people rise above the limitations that we try to put on him. But before last season, in 15 years as a head coach, he had a 500 record. Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. But, but, but then again, he went 10 to 2 last year they look awesome. This year, the fucking offensive and defensive lines are great. Yeah. The receivers are good. Even though they lost every receiver from last year. Beck is good.

[C]

I think their praises are being pretty universally sung.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And they're probably the best line of scrimmage team, offensive and defensive combined in the country.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Their lines are incredible. Also, I love Michael Irvin out there. Just going hard.

[B]

So obviously coked up. Right? I mean, no, one of them. Allegedly. Allegedly.

[C]

Somebody tweeted. They were like, this is sober Mike. Like y'.

[A]

All.

[C]

Y' all never saw.

[B]

Oh, okay. That makes sense, actually. Yeah, I could see that now.

[A]

Out.

[C]

No, somebody who. I think it was a teammate from Miami or the NFL or whatever was like, this is him with nothing.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe the cocaine brings him down.

[B]

No, I think it's the opposite. I think they're saying that coke Mike, was like.

[C]

There's another level you can't even comprehend.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like galactically insane. Just like. Like the most wired, juiced up person to ever walk the earth.

[A]

I would look. I. I would like to observe that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would like to see what. I mean, if they make it to the. To the Natty. I think we. We probably will get extreme Mike at that point.

[C]

Home stadium this year.

[B]

It's like. I want to observe it too, but probably the only way to observe it is to do amounts of cocaine. That would deeply freak me out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think I might. I think I might take the cowards way out. I don't know if I have the adventurer spirit. Yeah. To follow Langsford down the.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Down the path.

[A]

It'd be something, though. You could write a book about it. Job.

[B]

It's like Training Day.

[A]

Big T. I was also. Yeah. I didn't know you like to get wet. Come on, Jake. Big T hasn't seen that movie.

[C]

Still haven't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Talk me out of Aguilar for Heisman.

[C]

Well, his odds are kind of not that great now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's why value play.

[C]

Yeah. I. I think he's going to have great numbers. Honestly, if I had to pick somebody right now with Matier's injury, probably be Carson back.

[B]

Dante Moore's looking pretty frisky. His odds are not great. Value now. I forget at what he's down to like +850 or something.

[A]

Can you guys rank the games this weekend?

[B]

Oh, what a weekend. I think there's like 10 legitimately great.

[A]

Games and the Ryder Cup. It's gonna be an awesome sports week.

[B]

I'm not a golf guy, man. And I feel always Left out when the big golf things happen because, like. Like, everybody's so pumped about it, and I just kind of feel like the Squidward meme. I'm just inside, like, looking out the window.

[A]

You just really lean into. Just rooting for the usa.

[B]

Yeah, that's my plan. That's my plan.

[C]

I don't understand the scoring of the Rider cup, and therefore, it has hindered me from getting into it.

[A]

Okay. So I'll. I'll try to make it easy. So you got two teams understand that part, Right? And the. I. I forget the order of the events, but there's three different events. One of the events is called four ball, and in four ball.

[B]

Wait, what? There's different events?

[A]

Yeah. So you have a teammate, like, you're playing in, Marty out, you're playing in pairs. So big T, let's say it's me and Nick, and we're one pair. We're playing against you and T, Bob. And so we all play our own balls on each hole. And let's say I get a three on the first hole, and it's par three, and Nick gets a two. We're counting Nick's score.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then so one of you guys has to get a 2 or better in order to tie it.

[B]

So it's just match play, but with, like, a. Best is match play hole by hole.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like match play, but just with, like, a scramble element where you're not playing their balls. But, like, whoever gets the lowest score, that's the score we're taking.

[A]

Yep. Okay. And then there's kind of cool. Then there's foursomes. And Foursomes. Yeah. Gets kind of freaky. That's alternate shot. So, wait, what? So Nick would tee off on all the odd numbered holes, I would tee off on all the even numbered holes, and then we just take turns shooting on that hole. What's crazy is I actually want to ask. I'll ask Riggs about this tomorrow, but I'm going to ask Shane Bacon about this when we interview him for PMT today. In that. In that version of the game, the home team advantage over the last, like, 20 years has been extreme because they're.

[B]

More familiar with the course.

[A]

I don't know, but like it. You would think that it would be the same advantage for each different format that they're playing, but when it comes to alternate shot, for some reason, that's where the home team has really made enough points to win each time.

[B]

Wow. So something that we can say is, like, a pretty objective quirk but we can't exactly explain, I'm sure somebody why that would be the case.

[A]

I just don't know enough about golf to do it. And so, yeah, then Big T, there's a number that you have to hit. Hit in order to win the Ryder Cup. So like if Nick and I beat you guys, then we get one point. Our team gets one point. If we tie, then we split that point, we get a half point.

[C]

Right? You guys, it's like 13 and a half to 11 and a half. It's a whole thing.

[B]

What's. Do we know what the final. What the final score. Like what's the number that you have to hit?

[A]

It depends on if you currently retain the Ryder cup or if you're trying to take the Ryder cup away.

[C]

Hang on, Whoa.

[B]

So you gotta. You gotta take it from the champ.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's kind of cool.

[A]

So. But it's. It. They're very close numbers. I'm looking them up right now to see exactly.

[C]

While you do that, you want me to rank the games this weekend?

[A]

Yes, please.

[C]

T. Bob. Number one is Oregon. Penn State.

[B]

Agreed.

[C]

Number two is Alabama. Georgia.

[B]

Agreed.

[C]

Number three is. I would go Ohio State. Washington.

[B]

Yeah. Over El Shoele. Miss. Yeah, I would say that they. I mean, I think that's going to be. Because we need to see really what Ohio State is. And Washington is a very sexy team right now, I think. Washington's undefeated at Washington. Demond Williams, Washington's quarterback, is one of the more exciting, kind of under talked about players in the country. Liam, yesterday upstairs was making the case that, that Washington has the best combination of QB1, RB1 and wide receiver one in the country, which is arguable, but. But, but a good. But a fun conversation.

[A]

And a good coach, too.

[B]

And a good coach. This is what I was thinking about when Bruce Pearl retired the other day. Like good father moved by him. He gives his son five years at Auburn, you know, and so I was wrestling with, okay, is he a better dad or is Bill Belichick a worse dad? Because last year at Washington, Steve Belichick was kicking ass.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They had the number two past defense in the country. He was finally out of dad's shadow. He's living the Pacific Northwest. It's stunning. He's. Everything is good. And then dad forces him to come work with him again. Jordan's floating around. The team is dog shit. I just feel bad for Steve Belichick.

[A]

Just a lot of distraction. You have to answer questions about your.

[B]

Dad'S girlfriend and, you know, your wife's always talking shit about him and they're both talking shit to each other about like fucking Jordan and, and Bills. Like, Steve Jordan wants you to call our mom.

[A]

Yeah, that's a, that's a very, very strange. Isn't it crazy that we've got Clemson against UNC and it's dabo against Bill Belichick and it's just an afterthought.

[B]

It's the bottom of the acc.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But still, even the nature of the matchup that it's not exciting is insane.

[C]

Yeah. I don't.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So yeah, I could go Washington, Ohio State 3 and then L miss.

[C]

Then I would actually go Notre Dame at Arkansas Next, and then USC, Illinois.

[B]

I'm going to go USC, Illinois.

[C]

I think Notre Dame, Arkansas could have 85 points.

[B]

Yeah, I agree with that. That's, that's the tagline. But I, but I am fascinated to know what USC is this year. Lincoln Riley's never had a team be better than the one he had previously ever at Oklahoma or usc. It looks like maybe he could break that now. He and Jaden Mayava leads the country in QB rating right now. He's been awesome.

[A]

How's our defense? I haven't watched any U.S. i've not.

[B]

Watched any UFC either, actually.

[A]

To be honest, this will be the first time I, I get. Because I mean, the, the story about Lincoln Riley. He just does not give a. About defense.

[B]

No.

[A]

He's like, we'll just outscore.

[B]

I mean, he had Alex Grinch for years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is. And then Scott Frost gets the UCF job. He's like, hey, Alex. Yeah, come on, baby. We need a decent.

[A]

He used to not let the team tackle, right. Frost, no. Grinch.

[B]

Oh, I don't know. That makes sense with what they would put on the field on Saturdays. I don't think that seems like a hard thing to believe.

[A]

How physical were your practices at LSU during the week?

[B]

Oh, bro, we were. Les Miles was as old school as old school got. We're talking like, like inefficient three and a half hour full pad Tuesday, full pad Thursdays. Just repeating plays constantly. And it was at a day and age when kind of more evolved practice habits were starting. And I remember I always used to, we used to hear like legends of the Pete Carroll practices. Like they're two hours and, and then they go fast and they don't even wear leg pads. Like they're in shorts. And we're just like, what would that be like? Like now I do think, I do think it ended up costing us in that 2011 national championship because you had such a run up to that game. And we basically had a second camp. Like, we were doing full scrimmages. And I think it was. We just saved and completely out game plan us and out prepared us. But I do want to also give credit to. I think those practices did forge a, like, fuck you toughness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That when we had the talent advantage, we could just basically lean on you till we broke. Broke you.

[A]

That game sucked, by the way.

[B]

No. 21 nothing. Worst game ever. I didn't get to play. Really played my entire career. Started three different positions. Like I started center, left guard, right guard. In the many. In the two weeks of camp leading up to the natty. And this is what I was doing all year long. Even though I was starting at guard, I was doing two plays. Left guard, two plays, center, two plays, right guard, two plays out. So a three to one ratio. Working my dick off. And then I didn't even get to play in the game.

[A]

That sucks. I don't know why, but you can always point back and be like, if I had played.

[B]

Yeah. Right. We would have won.

[A]

Yeah. It would have been great.

[B]

Which again, people ask me. So it became a huge rumor because I didn't play out of nowhere that, like, I had, like, staged some, like, Rudy revolution in the locker room and been like, les, if you don't play, Jarrett, like, we're not playing. And there's all kinds of crazy rumors about it. None of it's true, but. But it. Yeah. I. I don't know. It just. It just. It's. It sucked. It was such a. Oh. Oh. This is what I was gonna say, but because people are grasping, like, what happened because that team was so great. I think with the benefit of hindsight, now we can say it was Nick Saban versus Les Miles with a month to prepare. And we won the first game that year, but we were really lucky to win it.

[A]

Les Miles used to. He used to win games sometimes in spite of himself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But then be like, he's so crazy, you don't know what's going to happen. And that kind of became people talking themselves.

[B]

That's the Tennessee 13 men on the field. My old man always called it the ultimate Mad Hatter moment, because with a running clock and no play called, we sub from heavy personnel to spread.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Tennessee got so freaked out. They were like, we got a match.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they just ran guys onto the field and had way too many on there.

[A]

What do you think about the. The Lane Kiffin Thing.

[B]

Wow. I. So everybody bullied me into thinking I had the wrong read. I kind of thought it was like. Like Advantage LSU because Whit Weeks is having sex with Lane Kiffin's attractive daughter.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then Big Cat and them all bullied me on Wake up into saying it's advantage Ole Miss because she's behind enemy lines and, like, draining Wit Weeks of his testosterone and. And getting defensive play calls and stuff.

[A]

So that's a. That's a common thing, like, for. For soccer coaches to say, no one on my team is having sex during the World Cup.

[B]

Yeah. In high school football a little bit.

[A]

That actually doesn't work. They've studied it. And your testosterone, it's at its peak if you're nutting regularly.

[B]

Exactly, dude. Oh, exactly.

[A]

Not too much. Like, you can overdo it to a certain extent, but, yeah, your testosterone levels peak if you're, like, commonly having sex.

[B]

We put way too much into semen retention when, like, now we know, like, to help prevent colon cancer, you should come 21 times a month. I know that. Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

All right, so for all the Gooners out there, again, you don't want to be too extreme like PFT said. But, like. Like, it's. It's healthy to come.

[A]

Is it weird that Lane Kiffin just tweeted out take the over?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Have we reached a point where it's like, that's Lane being lame. Everyone's betting on sports.

[C]

But it is weird.

[A]

It's weird that he said that. Right?

[C]

I mean, it was clearly in reference to, like, I'm gonna try to score a bunch of points on this guy.

[B]

Well, and. And he's their best defensive player, so he's like, my daughter's got this guy, you know, in. In, in, In. In a. In a vice grip. Here.

[A]

Here.

[C]

Do you see?

[B]

She.

[C]

She and her friends prevented Lane from taking the Auburn job.

[B]

Yeah. So I'd actually heard that. That. I had heard that before. The documentary just dropped that. That was. What happened, is that she was basically like, I'll hate you forever if you. If you take the Auburn job.

[A]

Why was that?

[B]

Because she was at Ole Miss.

[C]

Because she's just moved to Oxford, and, like, she said she didn't want to move again.

[B]

Yeah. She probably moved all over the place and whatnot.

[A]

Two things. Think. Do you think that Lane was upset that she chose to drop this on LSU week?

[B]

That's what I can't. Again.

[C]

I think it was calculated. I think they all did it on purpose.

[B]

And then the documentary came out. I don't know. That's what I can't figure out. Cui bono? Who benefits? Yeah, from, from, from this. I'm not sure. It's fun, though. It is fun. It's. And they're so hot.

[A]

Yeah, well, it's fun, but it's also.

[B]

A hot young couple.

[A]

I, I, I'm also way too old to be thinking about, about, like, the romantic implications of a coach's daughter banging a college football player.

[B]

I've been trying to suss some things out, and I guess she's apparently basically been in Baton Rouge, like, all of September.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And there were already kind of maybe rumors of this, like, swirling on Tick Tock in the lead up to the Instagram post. So. Yeah. Wait, girl, do you all have any insight here?

[D]

She posted TikTok get ready with Me, I believe, for an LSU game with his sister in the beginning of September, possibly week two, I want to say. And so people who saw that were like, obviously they saw the.

[B]

There's like, a week's jersey in the background, isn't there?

[D]

Yeah, and it's his, his sister is with her in the video, and it says, getting rose roast. Get ready with me and get roasted by my boyfriend's sister. Like, it was pretty out there. Like, I saw that picture and I had seen that Get Ready With Me video, and I was like, wait a sec, I thought we already knew this.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Was that the first time we found out that they were hooking up?

[B]

So the, I think for the majority of us, the Instagram post was the, what would be considered the hard launch. Even though I did have quite a few people in my mentions referencing the TikTok that you're talking about.

[D]

So I had seen the TikTok, and, and it said it had his jersey in the back. And then it also said my boyfriend's sister. And that was like, literally beginning of September.

[B]

Casey made me laugh on roughness the other night because I, she, she, I think she showed maybe a funny kind of disconnect for how she was thinking about it versus how maybe, like, some others would think about it, because she was saying that, like, the Ole Miss players are going to talk to witness, like, oh, you're our coach's daughter. And I was like, no, I think it's kind of the other way. Right.

[A]

Like, yeah, I don't think that, like, what it. Oh, yeah, I don't think it's any advantage at all to Ole Miss to say that.

[B]

But, but the, I just like thinking about the handshake after the game.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You got to go web to Web with. With your girl's old dad, Right.

[C]

Who is it funnier if they win? I think lsu.

[B]

Yeah, definitely lsu because then he's his daughter and he just beat him on the field in Oxford,000.

[C]

And he, he will seek him out after the game.

[B]

Yeah, he has to win or lose. You gotta go shake the hand.

[A]

Still weird to say take the over as a coach. I agree multiple times.

[B]

But he apologized after the Kentucky game in the immediate on field postgame interview for not covering.

[A]

Yeah, that. That to me is also crazy. Like I kind of missed the days when it was little inside secret that we all had.

[B]

I would say that I know that like three or four girls that, that Lane has DM though, and he's just throwed off dude. Like he does not give a Sydney Thomas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He sent that Sydney Thomas video to one of the girls that I'm talking about. Like, I, I don't know why. I know another girl that he sent highlights of his son scoring high school.

[A]

Football team on the city Thomas story.

[C]

She was doing some video in a cold tub and like an ice bath where I guess that's supposed to shock your senses, answering questions or something.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And the guy was like, what other celebrities have you heard from? And she's like, oh, well, One football coach DM'd me roll tide. And then she was like, it was Lane Kiffin.

[A]

Yeah. That doesn't surprise me at all. Joey Fresh, you think, you think Lane's going to stick around at Ole Miss?

[B]

Florida's going to come open.

[C]

I don't know if Florida will take him though.

[B]

Yeah, Florida. Florida is a little August. Right. Like, they may think that Lane is, but they're desperate.

[C]

They're also like, their whole administration is in tremendous turmoil. I think they like don't have a president right now.

[B]

Yeah, I, I think that Signetti. The thing about Lane is people always say, like, oh, he'd run to this job, he run to this job. And to be fair, I kind of was naive and thought he wouldn't. I guess he did really want the Auburn job, but then his family shut it down. But like he's got to be real careful because like Ole Miss accepts him as he is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like they don't give a. That he's sending all these crazy dms and everything. Like, yeah, you go to Florida, that could all go out the window with Ole Miss.

[A]

They're like, at least we got a guy that's doing it and like freely admitting to it stuff go on that.

[C]

They were willing to look past for A number of people.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, that was their coach and some players.

[A]

Yeah, but their coach was willing to overlook what the players were doing and, like, keep that quiet.

[C]

Okay, but the coach was doing some stuff too.

[A]

He probably was.

[B]

Yeah, maybe so. Hey, that's a good partner. Now, you know, that's our. That's our guy.

[A]

What do you think about. About Signetti to a major, major job?

[B]

I don't think. I think Kurt, I think people are absolutely going to ask if I was him, why would you leave? They're paying you. You have a massive alumni base investment is there. The expectations are not that high. I think you actually could win a championship in Indiana. I don't think that's crazy.

[C]

Oh, you think you can win a national championship? You cannot. That's the. And I agree with everything else you said about, like, why you shouldn't leave and that you cannot win a national championship.

[A]

If you want eight games a year at Indiana, Atlanta, they're gonna be very happy.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely.

[C]

But why don't you think they just don't have the money and resources?

[B]

I think they. I think they can, though. Nothing. Nothing.

[C]

Because now with Rev Share, they're gonna put everything into basketball and there's just not. They're not gonna be able.

[B]

No, no, no, no.

[C]

They can make the playoff.

[B]

Every school is a basketball school until they get a taste of football success.

[C]

No.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

No.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

If I. I can. I'm just telling you. No. Like, Kentucky is gonna spend all their money on basketball.

[B]

Yeah, but Kentucky sucks at football.

[C]

Football, okay? If they got good, they'd still spend all their money on basketball.

[B]

No way.

[C]

Remember, they've been good at football.

[B]

Even a couple years ago, Kentucky was trying to call themselves a football school and they were pissed at Calipari.

[C]

Well, that's the fans. The school is going to spend money on basketball. They don't have the resources to compete with the top 10 teams.

[B]

Indiana either has the largest or second largest alumni base in the entire country. They're right there with Penn State and Michigan, and they have a elite head coach. It's a portal era where you can go pay for guys. I think. I think. I don't. Beyond the weight of history, I don't see why Indiana can't break into that top tier.

[C]

I think you're. You're tremendously underestimating the money it takes to win a national championship.

[B]

The sport has been democratized a bit in terms of that talent in some.

[C]

Ways, but in other ways it's the opposite.

[B]

But I'm saying, I think I Think Indiana can pull from. I think they have the bag.

[A]

Get the crew together and head off to the course in the new 2024 Chevy Traverse with impressive cargo room, three room seating, and the first ever Z71 trim Traverse. Can handle your buddies and their golf bags with ease. Chevrolet together. Let's drive.

[C]

I guess we'll see.

[B]

You know, we don't talk about enough the fact that Les fucking Wexner is payrolling the Ohio State team. Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like Ohio State should be banned from postseason play. We know this guy, whatever. Allegedly is an Epstein pedophile. Like number one sugar daddy. Yes.

[A]

He was the. The guy that gave Epstein, like all of his money. He gave him his house.

[B]

Yes. For. For $1. Right. For $1.

[A]

Maybe even $0. We don't know. But it was somewhere between.

[B]

Oh, I thought they did a contract that was like $1.

[A]

It was somewhere between. Between $0 and $1. Anywhere in that range could have been the. The price, but it was what, like a hundred million dollar townhouse in New York. Here you go. Cheers.

[B]

And he's the Victoria's Secret founder.

[D]

Like, Les Wexner owns Columbus. I've said this on the show before. Les Wexner owns Columbus.

[A]

And his whole thing was like, yeah, his. His business was women in lingerie.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And he had a great marketing team behind it that had. They like, made lingerie classy and. And empowering for women to go to the mall and buy themselves something nice. But in reality, his operation was just like flying the hottest, most cocaine addicted women around the planet for his own personal pleasure, promising the millions of dollars if they become like one of the top three models in the industry. And the rest I can funnel to my buddy Jeffrey, allegedly.

[D]

It's also funny because, like, the biggest name sake that Les Wexner has at Ohio State is their whole entire hospital system.

[B]

Oh, God.

[D]

Which feels like a funny thing. Too big to fail to put your name on. If you're head pedophile and headphile, Head bra man and head pedophile. But it's literally like the Ohio State Les Wexner Medical center. Like everything at Ohio State.

[A]

That's crazy.

[C]

Those guys just give so much money, they'll put your name on anything. Like Tennessee has everything is Haslam. And then there's the Natalie Haslam College of Music.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, Jim Haslam just gave so much money. He's like, name that one.

[B]

No, I get it. It's a. It's. It's a heady play by we less. Because he's literally. Or. Yeah. Less. He. He's literally made himself too big to fail. It's like, why the ncaa, like, doesn't really want to get, like, Duke when all that was going down or anything in trouble, because it just. It up the sport too much. Like, it up Ohio State too much. If you actually go after Wexner, probably.

[A]

Yeah. Because then you got to start asking a lot of questions for every dollar that's coming at. Where. Where. Where did that come from?

[D]

It's very similar to the actual government.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Where it's like, you pull one string, the whole thing unravels.

[B]

Dark money.

[A]

Very big T. Also on the sheet that you sent over today, we should talk a little Tylenol. A little Tylenol. So they did a big press conference. The government, Donald Trump said that Tylenol might be the big contributor to why we've seen rising autism rates in the United States.

[B]

Also, though, we got to talk about the fact that the day before, he straight up said.

[A]

Said. Right.

[B]

Like, we found the cure to autism. I'm announcing it tomorrow.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes.

[B]

And that's a insanely asinine thing to say.

[A]

Yeah. And. And so what the announcement really was, was, hey, there might be a link that has already been studied between pregnant women consuming copious amounts of Tylenol and maybe some autism cases. So that's what it ended up being. There was a study that was done that showed that. That there might be a correlation there, but they also didn't check to see, like, the reasons why the women were taking Tylenol. What were they trying to treat at the time? Because that means that there's probably something else, another health issue that they're dealing with. But also. Yeah. Taking a shitload of acetaminophen, which is hard on your liver.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is not. Not good for anybody.

[B]

It's just. It's just, to me, it's just the most, like. And. And I made some joke about, like, you know, I haven't come through the headlines like, did we cure Tylenol? And I had a couple people get mad at me, and I'm like, I think I'd be a bit more upset with the leader of the free world claiming we've cured autism.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Only to then the next day come out and say what they did. Like, it's. It's. It's purely performative.

[A]

His. His press conference was so funny because he was like, maybe it. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but it could. But it might be clear, though, this.

[C]

Was a exhaustive study by doctors at Harvard, Columbia, Johns Hopkins and Mount Sinai Hospital that did find a link between acetaminophen using.

[B]

I don't have a problem with the study. I have a problem with the framing and the delivery.

[C]

Sure. But then ever. But now there's videos of pregnant women being like, I'm going to take all the Tylenol I can. And it's like, well, this was. Trump didn't come up with this.

[A]

I think. I think they're probably trolling you when they say that.

[C]

I mean, I watched videos of women be like, I'm. I'm gonna pop this Tylenol.

[A]

Yeah. I don't think that. I don't think that many pregnant women's reaction to this was, I'll show Trump. I'll take all the Tylenol. Like, yeah, Tylenol is. If you take like eight of them, that can up your liver.

[B]

Hannah had a very good tweet. Just a picture of a Tylenol. Bottles that hit in the bottle tonight.

[A]

Yeah. Tylenol is it. It is a effective pain reliever, fever reducer. But I don't. I don't take Tylenol. I don't. I can't remember the last time I took a Tylenol because I'm just always afraid that my liver's bad. And so you actually should not take Tylenol if you're hungover. I always used to the worst. You can die if you have, like a big dose of Tylenol.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Hungover.

[B]

I'm an ibuprofen guy anyway. But I always used to, like, I think having so many surgeries during sports and everything, I always thought, like, pain pills. Oh, like, these are awesome. They feel so good. And I always saw that, like, ibuprofen and Tylenol were kind of made, but then. Then now that I'm older, I love those 800 milligram ibuprofens.

[A]

You got some of the Naproxen.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Naproxen works really well.

[B]

Yeah. Might as well put my body on a pillow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just float away on a cloud of ibuprofen.

[A]

I've got a probably four or five bottles of half filled Naproxen.

[B]

I don't know Naproxen.

[C]

What is the proxy?

[A]

It's like, it's ibuprofen on steroids.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's like a prescription strength and it's for, like, anti infl. It's anti inflammatory. I used to take it for my shoulder because I had a torn labrum. Arthritis and rotator cuff stuff.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so they would Give that to me instead of like giving me a bunch of like, oxycodones or whatever.

[B]

Smart.

[A]

So I would take those and then I would stop taking them after rugby season was over. And then I just. Every season I get a new prescription or if you, like, break a rib.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They give you that because that's all they can do.

[B]

You just gotta heal it.

[A]

We gotta. We gotta just treat the pain.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, to. Your wallet heals.

[A]

Yeah. So I have like four bottles of half fil from back in like 2011.

[B]

God.

[A]

And I wonder, can you take. I know it says expired after like three years on there, but I wonder if it still works.

[B]

I think it didn't kill you. It may not be as effective.

[D]

I believe it's the effectiveness.

[B]

Okay, I. I'm right there with you. Pft. I just learned earlier this year that I have no labrum left my left shoulder. I've had two surgeries there. I can't lift my arm above this. I can't hold a plank anymore. Or I can't hold downward dog. You can do plank and push ups, but, like, I can't throw a ball. I'm literally in here every day teaching myself to throw a ball right handed so I can like throw my kid. They said.

[C]

Wait, are you left handed?

[B]

Yeah, they said I need a. A full shoulder replacement. That if it was a knee, they do it today, but they want me to, like, put it off as long as I can. Yeah.

[A]

Because the recovery from shoulder surgery, it's the worst. It's like eight months until you feel like a normal person again.

[B]

It's the worst. I lift your arm up.

[A]

My doctor had me doing. He would say just grab like a can of soup and then use that as a weight at first and then just do like a hundred reps of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you just get exhausted. It hurts. And you can barely even lift your arm.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Shoulder surgery sucks.

[B]

I had two labrums back in high school, and then it was good for years, but, you know, it's the only echo of football that I have. Otherwise, my body. I had a lot of surgeries, but otherwise everything else is good.

[A]

Does it pop, bro?

[B]

I can't.

[A]

I can't.

[B]

I can't. Again. I can't lift it above here. It's. It's cooked. There's no labrum left.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I guess I've just built the muscles up around it to where it holds it in place.

[A]

That's what they say to do. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sometimes when I sleep at night, I wake up in the morning and my shoulder is, like, halfway out.

[B]

That's a pain in the ass. Yeah, it's bad.

[A]

Anything else we want to get into today, Big T?

[C]

No. Did you bring up the. The tweet from Tylenol? Did you see that?

[A]

We actually don't recommend using any of our products while pregnant. Thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns today.

[C]

That was from 2017.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, Tylenol. I think it's safe to say that you should not take a lot of Tylenol if you're pregnant. I don't think that's controversial. I don't think that's, like, new information.

[D]

No, true. It is also the only pain reliever that pregnant women are permitted to use per doctor recommendations.

[B]

Oh, really?

[D]

Yes. You're not allowed to take, like, Advil or anything like that when you're pregnant. So the, the, the uproar of women being upset about this is that is the only form of pain relief that you can take when pregnant. And, I mean, Republicans have tweeted about this as well as Democrats. Every. Every woman goes into their OB when they're pregnant and they say Tylenol is fine. And then like, Meghan McCain tweeted this morning, and she was like, wait a second. I've had three kids. Every time they've said Tylenol's fine, what's this random switch up? Like, I know pregnant women that have taken Tylenol, and I think women are upset at the fact that this seems more like a thing where they are going to choose to blame women who have taken Tylenol rather than.

[B]

Like, the recommendations, like, what they were allowed, like.

[D]

Doctor recommended doses of Tylenol. Again, if you're taking. If you're overdosing on Tylenol, period, pregnant, not pregnant, man, woman, whatever, that's going to cause you bodily harm. I think if you're taking two Tylenol as a fever reducer when you're pregnant, I don't think you're doing that with mal intention.

[B]

No.

[D]

And I think that if Trump is going. Trump and RFK are going to spin this and say, well, your child has autism because you took two Tylenol when pregnant. I think that's what is really frustrating as someone who will maybe have children one day of like, well, yeah, why would the. Tylenol has always been the one thing.

[B]

You'Re assigning, like, guilt that. Yeah, that may not. That we don't even know if it's, like, scientifically accurate.

[D]

Exactly. And again, for however many years Tylenol has been the one thing that you can use, Tylenol wasn't even invented when autism was found or was discovered. Yeah. So it goes into. And again, this is me getting on my, like, lib horse. But, like, it goes into, like, are you going to turn this into a blaming women situation of you're taking Tylenol, you want your child to have autism, you or you brought this onto your child rather than genetics, you know, other things that could very well be causes for autism. And again, like you said, T. Bob Trump said, we have the cure for autism. It is not the cure for autism to not take Tylenol. People will still be diagnosed with autism even if your mom didn't take Tylenol. Tylenol when she was pregnant. That's what's frustrating is that it feels as though you are going to start blaming women for their child being diagnosed with autism, as if women don't have enough to deal with when they're pregnant.

[A]

I also think that Tylenol saying we do not recommend use of our, our product when pregnant. Like, there's a million reasons why they would say that. That make a lot of sense legally. The, the biggest one is legally, where if you recommend amend your drug to pregnant women and something bad happens with your child, then boom, lawsuit, Hundreds, millions of dollars from.

[B]

Do you think, does Tylenol sue here?

[D]

I think they have a case.

[A]

I think they're going to.

[C]

For what?

[D]

Misinformation?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So who are they?

[B]

Slander from the government.

[D]

Rfk.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

For releasing the findings of a study from Harvard a month ago.

[B]

Well, maybe for, I think again, for how he, he, for how he framed, like, I, I.

[C]

Again, by no means. If Trump said this is we have the cure for autism, that's moronic. But like, this study came out a month ago from, like, some of the most reputable doctors and hospitals in the United States.

[A]

So, but saying we have the cure for. You said it's moronic. But that's legally actionable for him to say.

[C]

Did he say that verbatim?

[A]

Let's see what his exact quotes were.

[C]

I just think people are very quick to think that, like, Trump and RFK came up with this.

[D]

Like, well, has RFK's whole thing, this whole time been autism?

[B]

The exact quote is we found unanswered to autism. Okay, so he might, maybe, maybe that's legally defensible.

[C]

Yeah, I don't, I don't know about that verbiage. But, like, this study was done by very reputable people who were not, like, politically motivated.

[A]

He did say, don't take Tylenol. He said taking Tylenol is no good.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, so that's just Donnie.

[B]

Oh, dude, I love this simple language. I'm always an. I'm a pretentious prick and I love, like, vocab and eloquence and flowery language. And it's easy.

[D]

It can't be like, just Donnie, like, he, he's the president.

[C]

Well, that, that's not a you, he's saying Tylenol is no good. Is not.

[A]

It's his opinion, but it's his opinion as the president of the United. Speaking in an official capacity.

[C]

Sure. But that you can say that independent of any autism link, he could be.

[A]

Like, I don't like Tylenol.

[D]

But he wasn't saying it.

[A]

Yeah, but he was. He was saying it in a link to autism that may or may not exist.

[C]

Sure. But again, they did not come up with this.

[A]

I think it's, I, yeah, but I think it's, it's pretty clear that the reason for escalating incidences of autism are not because women are taking Tylenol while pregnant. If this study is to believe, which I have no reason to think that what they found was, was wrong, it could explain a handful of cases. But, like, they're tying it in with the skyrocketing diagnosis, which is, I think, pretty clearly not the reason for the skyrocketing diagnosis.

[B]

I just feel like we just. Everybody lives now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so everything goes up.

[A]

Yeah. Like we said, they, they're way better testing, which is.

[D]

Yeah, they're. It's the testing, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's also, like a huge. I think there's a discrepancy between the number of males who are diagnosed with autism as opposed to females.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Right. So if this was a case where it was Tylenol, then you would see that be pretty easy even between male and female. Right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I'm not a doctor, so I, I.

[B]

I, I have something that I want to get Yalls opinion on. Speaking of your age curdling and, you know, yelling at clouds, I kind of hated that the US Team didn't have ties and dress shoes on.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

At the writer cup picture. I, I, and I'm not a dressy guy.

[A]

I agree with cons.

[B]

That I, I agree with cons. I agree with cons. I still stand with cons.

[A]

I don't like the sneakers and suit look.

[B]

No, I don't like the look to begin with. But then also, like, so many context. He text me last night. He was like, I didn't Fight terrorists in Iraq for these to be out there. But, like, no, like, I, I, I actually, yeah, I, when I saw that tweet, I was like, you know what? He's right. Look how sharp the Europeans look. Yeah, we like a bunch of slobs.

[A]

Yeah, the, the, the sneakers and suit look, I know it's meant to be, like, well, sneakers have become, like, fashionable and they go with anything. And it is a, a very clear fashion statement you're making when you're putting on a nice pair of Jordans. When you wear, when you wear a suit. I don't think it looks good.

[B]

I don't think it looks good either. I think it's run its course. And then the, the foreplay boys tried to spin it this morning and say that as long as the US Team's all doing it together, that's what you want to see. Team unity.

[A]

Yeah, that would be bad. I, I agree. What was Scotty wearing?

[B]

I, I guess sneakers. And it seemed like everybody had sneakers and no tie.

[A]

Scotty seems to me like a guy that would have, would have worn dress shoes.

[D]

He was not. He was wearing sneakers.

[A]

If you gave him the option, though.

[B]

Yeah, but he, but he's a good team player.

[A]

But he's a good team player.

[B]

He's a good team player.

[A]

But if you, if he had told Scotty, dress up wearing a suit, I feel like Scotty definitely wears, like, wingtips or some nice pair of Italian loafers.

[B]

I got. Well, I guess no free ads, but I got the best dress shoes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I got the best dress shoes.

[A]

Put me on game.

[B]

Should I say it?

[A]

Yeah, you can say it.

[B]

This company, Wolf and Shepherd.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That's what these are too, actually. But they're, they look super dressy and yet you can like, their gimmick was like, they like, had people, like, run marathons in them and.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

They're so comfortable. Great to dance in. You could accuse me of bias because one of my best friends growing up actually started the company. But like, it, it's, it's. They're incredible. They're incredible.

[A]

Good looking shoes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Big T. Where do you stand on the, on the dress shoes for sneakers?

[C]

I don't know a word what we're talking about. I haven't seen this picture. I don't. But it just in general of. I don't care.

[A]

You don't care about.

[B]

And I never would. I guess I'm just, That's what I'm saying. I think I'm curdling. I'm getting old. I'M the old man yelling at the clouds. It kind of pisses me.

[C]

I don't care what shoes anyone else wears.

[A]

I've never cared enough to, like, hate it. But when I look at it, I do think that, yeah, dress shoes look way better with a suit. Ladies, what do you guys think?

[C]

Depends on cost, context.

[D]

I. I saw the picture. I think it looks poor next to the European team because they were very sharply dressed.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So I think. I think on its own, if you just had a picture of the USA team, it's like, okay, I'll let it slide. Whatever.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Putting them next to the European team, that's where it gets. It's pretty sloppy.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I also don't like the. I think they were wearing them in their practice yesterday. The zip up, like, quarter, like, instead of buttons. They have a zipper. I don't like that look.

[A]

The polo shirt that has the zipper.

[D]

The polo shirt that has the zipper. I don't love that.

[B]

Oh, weird. So not a quarter zip. A polo shirt with a zipper.

[D]

Yeah. I don't know what to describe that as, but I don't like that as well. But the sneakers thing. Yeah. Not great. Isn't the writer. And it also. I think also it looked weird because all of their wives were dressed in, like, full gowns and heels and the whole shebang. And then it's like, it was mismatched.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I think if you're a. If you're a wife in that circumstance and you're wearing heels and your husband can't even, like, put on a dress shoe. Yeah. Dress shoe. Because it kind of pinches the side of his toes a little bit, then you definitely have a right to be upset.

[C]

Well, what I'm looking at, they. They all got, like, matching shoes.

[B]

Yes. No, it was a team thing. It was a uniform. Team thing. I just don't like the uniform decision.

[A]

It's also, you're. You're a golfer. You're supposed to be dressed up and fancy like the ones.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

When did they want to start being the cool guys?

[A]

Yeah, we're cool.

[B]

No, we're out of here.

[A]

We're athletes. We're gonna wear dunks instead. No, no. You're a golfer. Look like an accountant.

[D]

I'm mainly upset because Victor Hovland is.

[A]

Hitting hidden in the back in this photo.

[B]

Is Victor Hovland hot?

[A]

He's a cutie. Yes.

[D]

Yeah, he's on MacKenzie's top two.

[A]

I think that we're gonna have a lot of American men rooting for the United States, and we might lose some of our ladies to. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's gonna be.

[B]

Oh, wow. Victor Hovland is hot. Holy.

[D]

Is Ludwig on the Ryder cup team? Yes, and he has a girl with.

[A]

Him, so that might do some.

[B]

Man, look at Victor's jawline and icy blue eyes. Lies.

[A]

What if I told you Sam Hartman was rooting for the United States, though? I'm in. Okay. Yeah, back.

[B]

You mean because he gets real patriotic? Cassian. Are y' all Acatar fans?

[A]

I'm not an.

[D]

I'm not an Acatar queen.

[A]

Don't know what that is.

[D]

I. My friends all are. I had to take a buzzfeed quiz last week to figure out which court I'm in.

[B]

I read all the Acatars. It's very okay, but the sex is nice.

[A]

All right, well, that was macrodosing for today. Thank you, T. Bob. Loved having you on.

[B]

Always fun. Glad I finally got to do one of these with you. Pft. This was awesome.

[A]

It was a blast. And thank you, Nick, for stopping by. Sorry, Aryan. Sorry you weren't here, buddy. It's complete coincidence that I invited Nick on today. All right, well, we will see you guys next Tuesday. Until then, love you guys.