Mad Money w/ Jim Cramer 10/8/25

Summary

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Mad Money w/ Jim Cramer – October 8, 2025

Host: Jim Cramer (CNBC)

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Episode Overview

This episode takes listeners deep inside the current landscape of Wall Street investing, with Jim Cramer dissecting the “three economies” driving market behavior. The episode explores the explosive growth propelled by AI and data centers; the struggles of the traditional “real” economy; and the froth of speculative stocks reminiscent of the dot-com era. Major interviews include Michael, CEO of CoreWeave, and Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines, offering insights into the AI infrastructure boom and historic moves in gold. Cramer also covers technical market perspectives, provides actionable takes on growth versus safety stocks, and delivers his signature Lightning Round of rapid-fire caller Q&A.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• Dissect the “three economies” shaping the market: AI/data center boom, struggling real economy, and speculative excesses.
• Push back against bubble fears in AI and highlight where the real speculative bubbles lie.
• Feature interviews with leaders in AI infrastructure (CoreWeave) and gold mining (Agnico Eagle Mines).
• Offer tactical advice for investors on sector allocation—emphasizing growth over traditional “safety”.
• Include actionable, no-nonsense takes via the Lightning Round and chart-based technical analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The State of the Market: “Three Economies”

[01:39–08:50]

Cramer’s Framework:

• First Economy:

  • AI & Data Centers: The “Fourth Industrial Revolution”
    • Dominated by major players (Meta, Alphabet, Amazon, Dell, Micron, AMD, Microsoft, Qualcomm, Oracle, Nvidia).
    • Since late 2022, data center buildout responsible for 75% of S&P 500 returns, 80% of earnings growth, 90% of capital spending growth ([02:31]).
    • Bears constantly warn of a bubble, likening it to 2000’s dot-com collapse—Cramer rejects the comparison.
    • Quote:

      “Nearly everyone involved with the data center story makes real money. There’s no real basis for comparison [with the dot-com era].” (03:38, Cramer)

    • Cramer’s Nvidia loyalty:

      “I named my dog after the company when the stock was just under $4 and now it’s 189 bucks. So far it’s paid much more to be a believer.” (04:25, Cramer)

• Second Economy:

  • The “Real Economy”: Sluggish and Needing Help
    • Hiring slowing (Carlyle Group survey), less freight movement (FedEx downgrade), weak housing, slow retail and industrial numbers.
    • Small/medium businesses surprisingly resilient, banks still lending, but many big companies and consumer packaged goods are struggling.
    • Needs “multiple rate cuts” to revive growth ([06:57]).

• Third Economy:

  • Speculative Mania and True Bubble Behavior
    • Parallels dot-com era: companies with no earnings raising money—nuclear, crypto, and quantum stocks led by retail investors.
    • Cramer: “I fear we’re at the cusp of some gigantic equity offerings for some kinds of these companies.” (07:20)
    • Example given: Joby Aviation’s flying car stock plummeting after a dilutive equity raise.
    • Calls on bears to target these, not AI growth names.

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2. Caller Q&A and Investment Philosophy

[08:50–09:33]

• Advice on portfolio composition:

  “50% of your money should be put in index funds and only 50% stocks. I want you to take control of your money.” (08:57, Cramer)

• On speculation and sports prediction markets:

  “There’s a general belief…that there’s too much gambling and that does have me worried because that’s an existential threat.” (09:33, Cramer)

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3. Interview: Michael, CEO of CoreWeave (AI Infrastructure)

[12:09–22:05]

• CoreWeave’s Unique Positioning:

  • Provides AI infrastructure to large clients—massive contracts with OpenAI and Meta.

    “Our software integration with hardware gives us a 90%+ client win rate after proof of concept.” (14:17, Michael)

• Rejecting the “circular deal” narrative:

  “There’s a narrative out there that has to deal with circular investment. I think it’s just fundamentally flawed… This is a fundamental infrastructure buildout.” (16:02, Michael)

• Investment value of AI infrastructure:

  “At the end…we are left with what I refer to as the equity slot…you then get to run [infrastructure] in a fully depreciated manner…much longer than people expect.” (18:12, Michael)

• M&A Activity:

  • Recent acquisitions (Monolith, Open Pipes).
  • Positive about Core Scientific acquisition:

    “We are extremely confident this deal is going to go through, and if it doesn’t, they’re going to be great partners…they run some of our data centers.” (20:50, Michael)

• Cramer’s endorsement:

  “People who think it’s just plug-and-play really don’t understand.” (21:39, Cramer)

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4. Technical Market Analysis & Bubble Talk Rebuttal

[23:59–30:57]

• Cramer and technician Joe Fahmy (Zur Capital):

  • Draws on charts comparing the current AI/data center rally to the dot-com era—noting we’re only in “1997” of that cycle, with room to run.

    “If you want to use the .com analogy…we’re still in the equivalent of 1997, and telling people to sell now, right here…Guess what, sucker?” (25:10, Cramer)

  • No exuberance in sentiment or positioning indicators.
  • 4Q is historically strong for markets, especially after new highs.

    “The only time you need to be worried about an AI bubble is when the bears give up. And that definitely hasn’t happened yet, has it?” (28:40, Cramer)

• Advice on Broadcom (from “Charlie in Texas”):

  “I would tell you this—it wouldn’t hurt you to buy more. I think it’s that good a situation.” (30:57, Cramer)

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5. Gold’s Big Move – Interview with Sean Boyd, Agnico Eagle Mines

[32:51–40:52]

• On Gold’s Historic Surge:

  • Gold crosses $4,000/oz; up 54% for the year; Agnico Eagle Mines stock up over 117%.
  • Central banks and investment demand are key drivers.

    “For the last 20, 30 years, gold’s been under accumulation by central banks…there’s still inability or unwillingness to make the tough choices to manage debt. This is a perfect environment for gold.” (33:17, Boyd)

• Limited New Mine Supply:

  “We're just not [seeing a massive wave of new mine supply], even at $4,000 or $5,000.” (34:31, Boyd)

  • Challenges: permitting timelines, building costs, and global risks have reduced the growth in new mines.
  • Agnico’s strategy is to “stick with good rocks” in jurisdictions with rule of law and long-term runway.

• Gold vs. Crypto:

  “I think crypto and gold can exist together. Digitization will actually open new markets for gold.” (36:53, Boyd)

• Retail Gold Demand:

  • Cramer quips about buying gold at Costco—which sells out quickly:

    “What Costco is selling is a 1 oz gold maple leaf, and that maple leaf contains 100% of the gold in that coin comes from our Detour Lake mine.” (37:59, Boyd)

• On whether gold is just “catching up”:

  “Gold’s up a total of 1400% since 2000…The annualized CAGR is almost 11%. It’s done well, but done well very quietly.” (38:48, Boyd)

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6. Lightning Round & Safety vs. Growth

[41:14–44:06]

• Sample Lightning Round Takes:
  • International Flavors & Fragrances (IFF):

    “Sales are flat. There’s really nothing I can say that’s good about it. It has no growth and that’s disappointing.” (42:15, Cramer)

  • New Fortress Energy:

    “Take out your cost basis tomorrow and you can let it run.” (42:55, Cramer)

  • Soundhound (AI voice tech):

    “It’s up a great deal. It's not making money. I would take a little bit off tomorrow and let the rest run.” (43:28, Cramer)

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7. Rethinking “Safety Stocks”

[44:06–47:31]

• Cramer argues that traditional consumer “safety stocks” (Clorox, Campbell’s, Kraft Heinz, etc.) now lack the defensive value they once provided:

  “There’s no safety in these stocks. Same goes for many of the pharmaceutical companies… But the tremendous growth stocks are hanging in there like champions. This is a complete inversion of how things were when I first started out in the business.” (45:33, Cramer)

• Key message:

  “The only safety out there is growth. Because these days the traditional safety stocks… always seem to be on vacation.” (46:41, Cramer)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On dot-com vs. AI comparisons:

  “I hate that analog…I ran money in the year 2000… The stocks look nothing like those. I know one when I see one.” (03:02, Cramer)

• On AI infrastructure and CoreWeave’s edge:

  “Once they get to the proof of concept stage, it’s overwhelming. There’s over a 90% win rate…” (14:17, Michael, CoreWeave CEO)

• On gold and global instability:

  “When you have uncertainty and instability and disorder, gold is king. And that's where we are.” (33:45, Boyd)

• On the function of growth stocks as the new “safety” plays:

  “The only safety out there is growth.” (46:41, Cramer)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:39] Breakdown of "Three Economies"
• [04:25] AI/Data center stocks vs. dot-com comparison
• [06:57] Real economy struggles, the need for rate cuts
• [08:50] Callers: Index funds vs. stock picking & speculation risks
• [12:09] Interview: Michael, CEO of CoreWeave
• [18:12] CoreWeave’s strategy on infrastructure value
• [23:59] Technical analysis and market bubble talk (Joe Fahmy)
• [25:10] Comparison of today’s market to “1997” of the dot-com run
• [30:57] Broadcom: to buy or not to buy more?
• [32:51] Interview: Sean Boyd, Agnico Eagle Mines – the gold surge
• [36:53] Gold vs. crypto
• [41:14] The Lightning Round (caller Q&A)
• [44:06] Rethinking “safety stocks” and why growth now equals defense

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Episode Takeaways

• The so-called “bubble” in AI/data centers is unlike the dot-com era; real earnings, real demand, and deep pockets set these companies apart.
• The “real” economy is struggling, and needs policy help, while speculative froth persists mainly among loss-making tech and “story” stocks.
• Gold and gold miners are thriving due to central bank demand, inflation fears, and limited new supply—even as gold competes with crypto for investment flows.
• Traditional “safety” stocks can’t be relied upon—growth names now provide the true defensive characteristics in modern market cycles.
• Cramer remains bullish on selective, innovative companies and urges listeners to be cautious of retail-driven speculation.

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Transcript

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[Jim Cramer]

Hey, I'm Kramer. Welcome to MAV Money. Welcome to Kramer. I'll be with my friends. I'm just trying to make a little bit of money here. My job is not just to entertain, but I'm trying to teach. Little education. Call me 1-874th B CBC, tweet, Mew Mcramer. We have three economies right now. Not one, not two, but three. Two of those are booming, although one shouldn't be, and the third one is hurting badly and it needs help right now. Of course when you look at the averages with The Dow dipping 1.2 points today, the SB gaining point 5%, the Nasdaq jumping 1.12%, you can't see it because all three groups are mixed together. That's why tonight I'm going to break them down for you. The first and the most exciting is everything connected to artificial intelligence in the data center. We are constantly being told this is a bubble, an accident waiting to happen. Ever since the launch of Chat CBT in late 2022, the data center's build out has been responsible for 75% of the S&P 500 returns, 80% of its earnings growth, 90% of capital spending growth. Thank you Michael Semblis, Chairman and Market of market and investment strategy for JP Morgan, Asset and wealth management for that, for calculating those for us. The Bears want to throw freezing cold water on the whole air complex. Which is why they constantly compare to the end of the dot com era. I hate that analog. The heavy hitters in this business think Metta, Alphabet, Amazon, Dell, Micron, amd, Microsoft, Qualcomm, Oracle and of course Nvidia all have incredibly deep pockets. Open air is a little more opaque. But they've had no trouble raising money. Oracle might be overspending on data centers. I would argue it definitely is. But worst case, they can sell some stock and offer a whole lot of corporate bonds. And remember they have a tremendous track record. All of these companies have been criticized for spending money like drunken sailors. There's a cottage industry of bears who spent the last couple of years urge you couple of years urging you to short these stocks, not just sell the short sell especially the biggest short of all in video. And they never stop. Even though they've been wrong every step of the way. I question how they stayed in business. I've been saying you either believe in the fourth industrial revolution as described by Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang, or you don't. The Bears don't believe it. Could they be right? Of course. But I've been telling people to just buy in video since I named my dog after the company when the stock was just under $4 and now it's 189 bucks. So far it's paid much more to be a believer. That goes double on a day like today when Micron rallied nearly 6%, Dell gained 9% and AMD jumped over 11% on data center orders and accelerating growth rates. Those are like takeovers. As for the comparison with dotcom collapse, most of the companies that went under back then had no earnings and little revenue. And a lot of them were dishonest. Their stocks traded on page views. Nearly everyone involved with the data center story makes real money. There's no real basis for comparison. I know that because I ran money in the year 2000. My hedge fund finished the year up 36%. Why? Because we shorted everything in sight. We knew that these companies were going lower. So I can tell you the stocks look nothing like those. I know one when I see one. Those had no earnings, very little sales and bad balance sheets. The second economy, that's the so called real economy which is kind of not so hot. We lack economic data because of federal furloughs. But the reliable Carlyle Group just put out a survey showing that hiring has really slowed down. We know from street research that freight has just gotten softer. A great indicator of the future. FedEx. Quite a downgrade. Housing has slowed as mortgage applications have gotten weak even as interest rates have come down. Retail sales are not great, especially if they're related to housing, and much are. Industrial numbers are slowing. Autos seem like they're about to roll over along with used cars. Travel and leisure finally seems to be slowing. Now of course the pockets of strength in real economy. Banks are still lending and have surprisingly solid credit numbers. Small and medium sized businesses are doing well. Another surprise. But all sorts of big companies are struggling. Even the one safe consumer packaged good stocks that seem to dominate the new low list. More on that later. Then there's a third economy. It's the speculative economy. This actually looks like the end of the dot com era. And I do hope that this economy runs out of steam for it drags down the entire market. The bears love to invoke the year 2000 to condemn the AI stocks, but like I explained earlier, the stocks have very little in common with the hundreds of dot coms that got wiped out back then. Instead it's the speculative stocks that remind me of the dot com era. A group of companies with no earnings to speak up that need to raise money to stay afloat. Now we see these in nuclear power crypto or quantum computing stocks. These have all been bid up furiously by retail investors. Stocks like OCLO or Rigetti Computing. I think they're too high. That's the fault of retail though. I fear we're at the cusp of some gigantic equity offerings for some some kinds of these companies. We got one on Monday from an also ran quantum company called Quantum Computing and another one today from Joby Aviation, the flying car company. It offered 30.5 million shares of new stock at 16.85 per share. It closed up from the deal 17.37, but way down from the nearly $19 price of yesterday's close. That's brutal and very 2000ish. These speculative companies will all need institutional money. But because their stocks were no real volume, thanks to retail buyers, the big institutions won't want to touch them unless they're offered a big discounts. And even then don't count on them to hang on to their stock for long. They'll be banging them out, making a couple of making a buck here and buck there. I think that the speculative part of the economy needs to run out of gas. It needs to burn off the fraud. I wish the bears would Just go after these names instead of constantly harking on Nvidia now amd I mean, come on. Sure, there's gold up on a spike of calamitous buying. I'm the wrong guy to say it's a red flag though, as I've been a gold bug for decades and to me it's finally going to where it has to go. Scarcity of gold, abundance of federal debt say it all. Stick around. We're going to hear from Agniqual, my favorite gold miner, later in the show. Show putting it all together. The first economy is the fourth industrial revolution. And while there might be periodic overbuilds, previous industrial revolutions tended to burn out only when there was too much debt layered on. That's what happened to the railroads in the 19th century. People started laying track everywhere using borrowed money. Most these companies went under. That's when you need to start worrying. But the hyperscalers, except for Oracle, have so much cash, there's nothing to be concerned about at this point. The second economy, the real economy, needs multiple rate cuts definitely to save it because employment may be running one empty for all we know. Third economy, other than Palantir, which actually has earnings but is incredibly overvalued, although I think it could still go higher. This speculative cohort has to be stopped before its froth overwhelms everything else. I want the Bears to direct their wrath and ire on these stocks, not the companies of great balance sheets and very long term records of track tracks of success that seem to be ignored entirely. Here's the bottom line. If these speculative stocks that are the real bubbles, not the AI place yet, you never know. If you listen to the Bears, they conflate them all. As I say in how to make money in any market, these people aren't there to help you anyway, so please stop taking them so darn seriously. Let's go to Josh of Vermont, please. Josh.

[Caller/Viewer]

Hey Jim. I just wanted to start off by thanking you for giving me the confidence to divest from my mutual fund holdings.

[Jim Cramer]

Well, thank you, thank you. Now remember, I do think that 50% of your money should be put in and index funds and only 50 and then 50% stocks. I am a little more concerned with that. But I want you to take control of your money. Absolutely.

[Caller/Viewer]

Great. Yeah, no, it's definitely turned it into a much higher performing portfolio.

[Jim Cramer]

Excellent. That's great. But let's not be greedy. Go ahead. How can I help?

[Caller/Viewer]

Yep, so with the recent pullback in Sportrader, I was looking to start a position. Do you think the rise in prediction markets is a threat to the fundamentals? Or is it?

[Jim Cramer]

No, no, I don't. I think that the fundamentals are good here. I do think that there's a general belief that I get now when I go out talking about my book that people feel that there's too much gambling and that does have me worried because that's an existential threat. I don't think they can do much to it, but I'm hearing that chatter way too often. Thank you for the kind words. It's the speculative stocks that are the bubbles in this market. Please, not the place. But you would know if Listen, the bears, they want to take down the big guys to leave them the small stuff that' going up way too much retail buying alone. They're not helping us at all. Man Money tonight. Core weavers bounced back in a big way over the past month on the heels of flurry of great ideals and I'm checking in with the company CEO to see if there's more of the run. Then with all the bubble talk going on, the best thing we can do is check in on the charts and gold has been on a tear in recent weeks. I'm sitting down with the top race of Nico Eagle Mines to see how the company stands to benefit from the rally to record highs. So stay with Framework Foreign.

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[Jim Cramer]

Over the past few weeks we've heard about a bunch of new infrastructure deals and that take up practically every stock in the group, including Core Weave which builds data centers and then basically rents out their computing power. You know we've liked this from the Data did their IPO. Corey alone has scored a $6.5 billion expansion of its business with OpenAI, the second one in the past few months. Their total contract value with OpenAI now weighs in at 22.4 billion. And on top of that they just announced more than $14 billion a contract with Meta Platforms. Clearly Wall Street's been underestimating the demand for computing power and for the work of Corby, just today Corey have announced some new tools to help programmers develop AI agents and the stock jumped almost 9% in response doll up over 65% from its lows last month and it's up 250% from where it came public in March. So can you keep running? Let's take it with Michael. He's the co founder, chairman, CEO of Corey. You get a better sense of the story. Mr. Chair, welcome back to Mad Money.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

Thank you Jim. It's great to be back.

[Jim Cramer]

Okay, so Michael, tell us what exactly are you providing that people keep selecting your company? Because there's now a host of companies that claim they do the same thing you do.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

Yeah, I guess we can, we can take the approach that, you know, imitation is the highest form of flattery.

[Indeed Advertiser]

Right.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

Look, we have built the premier solution for delivering AI infrastructure to large consumers who need access to the infrastructure at scale. That's what Corey has done and we've done it. Everything from building the data centers through building the infrastructure inside of the data centers through the supercomputers, through the networking, all the way up through the software and provide, you know, what is the best solution in market for consumers of compute.

[Jim Cramer]

Okay, so when I think that the companies I'm seeing being bought by many of our viewers, but certainly people, the public, they're buying Nebulous and Iran and terrible. How do you distinguish yourself from what they're doing?

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

Yeah, look, you know, there's a lot of people that are stepping into the space that are trying to build an infrastructure solution but at the end of the day we have spent years building out our software solution that provides best in class delivery of this infrastructure it's why clients keep coming back to us again and again. It's, you know, we regularly will have clients that have consumed infrastructure on other platforms turn back to us and say, you know, we tried it on other platforms. We're coming back to you because this is the best solution in market. We, it has to do with the software solutions, the integration of the software into the hardware. You know, I mean, the, the, the traction that we get with clients once they get to the proof of concept stage is overwhelming. There's over a 90% win rate once they actually begin to use the infrastructure on our platform. And that's just astound.

[Jim Cramer]

Right.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

And that really is a reflection of how much better this infrastructure works when it's consumed through the Core weave solution.

[Jim Cramer]

It's 90% means 90%. You're pretty, pretty darn proprietary. I like that. We had Jensen Huang yesterday for CNBC Investing Club. It was a great one on one. And one of the things that he talked about was the dismiss this notion of the circular deal and instead he talked about the notion of being a really great investor and he mentioned the investment in Core Weave. Now how did that come about? Because it clearly was at the time risky. You and I talked about it. I wasn't worried about it because I knew that it was a real investment. It was not to be able to give you money and then you give him money.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

Yeah, look, there's a narrative out there right now that has to deal with circular investment. And I think it's just fundamentally flawed.

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

Right.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

The reality of the situation is really large, really important technology companies across the space are buying infrastructure to deliver it to their clients matter. Microsoft, you know, Amazon, Google, I mean, the largest tech companies in the world are purchasing this infrastructure because they have demand. There's nothing circular about that. It's a fundamental infrastructure buildout that's taking place. And when you have such a massive scale investment in infrastructure, it is not unusual to see partnerships as people try to serve infrastructure to the consumers. It happens in other markets. It's happening in this market. I don't think it's circular at all. You know, we've been tagged with circular investment since Nvidia made its first investment of $100 million years ago. $100 million, we've raised $25 billion. They didn't invest $100 million for circular acceleration of their business. They invested $100 billion because they looked at the solution we provide and said, that's a solution that we want to own, that we want to buy into, that we Want to own a piece of. And that's what it is. I think the, you know, this, this, this, this narrative around the circular investment, you know, it's, it's of the day but it will pass because the fundamental drivers in the market are enormous.

[Jim Cramer]

Okay, so yesterday Jensen also said something that you, you told me, I almost said teach taught me, but I'll go with thought, you know what, which was that when you, what you're left with after the, say the five years, whatever is actually quite valuable because the actual platforms have tremendous ability for, for other customers and they're going to be owned by you. And anyone who thinks that once you amortize it after five years, they're therefore going to be in big trouble because they own something are, they're just dead wrong. Can you put it in your words? Because you're, I think can really explain it. Well, yeah.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

So look, you know, when we go into a deal, we buy, you know, we get a client comes to us and says I want to buy $2 worth of compute. We go out and we buy a dollar's worth of infrastructure and we deliver that to the client, right? At the end of the day we are going to be left with the profits that we make during the contract term. We are going to pay back the debt, we are going to support the interest, cover the opex. And at the end of that we're left with what I refer to as the equity slot, right? The last piece of infrastructure that you then get to run in a fully depreciated manner for as long as it is able to generate revenue. And historically we have seen this infrastructure last a lot longer than people expect. We have seen our clients come in and purchase this infrastructure looking to buy for six years, even with options into the seventh year. And at the end of the day I always look towards the people that are putting up the money that are buying the compute to guide me in my understanding of what the expected value of the infrastructure will be over time. If they're willing to pay me for six or seven years, that's how long it's going to last. At least that's the minimum.

[Jim Cramer]

Well, it sounds to me that the equity portion is certainly worth holding for. Now one of the thing is, is that you've got a deal. It's going to be like three more weeks is you're buying a company called Core Scientific. I know there's some people who are not happy with the price, but at the same time I believe the stock is up substantially from when you made the bid.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

Yeah, we've been, we've been doing a lot of things. We've been buying companies, we have been building software organically and so yesterday we announced the acquisition of Monolith. That's, that's an incredible company. All of our industrial clients are, are trying to figure it out how to bring AI to bear on their engineering processes, on physics, on the build out of, of their fundamental value proposition to the market. And by buying a company like Monolith and integrating that into our service, you get to make huge progress towards actually bringing AI to a portion of the market that hasn't yet fully incorporated it. Another acquisition was open pipes.

[Jim Cramer]

We just released how about the core science course? Maybe not allowed to talk about it but to me I'm trying to understand why would someone wouldn't be happy with being up.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

So we're up 60% from when we made the bid or they're up 60% from when they made the bid. We are extreme. We are extremely confident that this deal is going to go through. We're extremely excited that it goes through and if it doesn't, they're going to be great partners for us no matter what because they run some of the data centers that our infrastructure is in. We are going through the process that you have to go through. Some shareholders are excited about the deal. Some shareholders aren't as excited about the deal. In the end, we believe our, our board believes the management company of course Scientific believes the Matt, the board of directors of course Scientific believes that there is real value here for joining the two companies together and we believe we will be successful.

[Jim Cramer]

There it is. Let's leave it at that. Congratulations on all these big deal. I've been to one to where you not, not one of your facilities but a facility where you do work inside. And I know it is quite proprietary. People who think that it's just plug and play really don't understand and I was taught that not by you, by, but by Jensen Wong. So anyway, I want to thank Michael and Trader co founder, chairman and CEO of Core. We've always good to have you on Michael. Thank you so much.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

Thank you so much.

[Jim Cramer]

Madman is back here for the break.

[Mad Money Announcer]

Coming up, are we in a true bull market or is there a bubble about to burst? Kramer's going off the charts and seeing if the market can keep up in the long term.

[Jim Cramer]

Next.

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[Jim Cramer]

Yesterday the market pulled back hard after a strong opening. Today the average is erased those losses and then some. But every time we go higher, we kept hearing endless growling from the Bears and the billionaire Easters as I call them in how to make money in any market. And they insist that the market's gotten frothy, the rational exuberance out of control and this entire rally will blow up in our faces. Just you wait. Or as I used to say, confessions of a street addict. Get out now. So tonight I want to give you another perspective rebuttal of the Bears who insist that this bull market's headed directly to do the slaughterhouse. That's why we're going off the charts with help of Joe Family. He's been right. This is a portfolio manager at Zur Capital LLC and Joe is the founder of Joe Farmi.com education as Fahmi season, this market still got significant upside. He's been in this business almost as long as I have and his experience big moves can last much longer than most people tend to expect. Just when investors think something can't go any higher, it usually does. Same goes for declines in a bear market. Right now we've got so many skeptics who are adamant that this great a data center bull market must be at the end of its rope. But Fahmi thinks that they're underestimating how much Upside remains here over the next two or three years. Most importantly, farming doesn't think this moment looks anything like the end of the dot com era that you keep hearing from all the rich people come on our shows. Forget a bubble in AI. If anything, he says there's a bubble in people calling for bubbles. What makes them so confident? Okay, as Bomi mentioned the last time we checked in when he was dead right in late June. If you want to use the.com analogy, then you actually need to know how the dot com boom and bust cycle played out. And I've been saying this, I think a lot of the critics weren't there, didn't live it. I did. Let me show you something. This is a terrific chart. It shows the action the NASDAQ composite from the launch of Netscape at the end of 1994 for a lot of people thought that was the beginning to the dot com peak in March of 2000. Basically the dot com bull market lasted a lot a little more than five years. At the same time, this chart also shows the performance of the Nasdaq since Chat GPT launched in November 2022. You know, it's a very similar trajectory. But again, if you want to use the.com analogy and using the Netscape comparison, which makes sense, we're still in the equivalent of 1997 and and telling people to sell right now, right here. Well, how do you think you did? What do you think say time to get out, Time to get out. Get out now. Guess what, sucker? Now Fahmi believes he remains bullish here because we keep seeing huge infrastructure deals and enormous capital expenditure announcements. The big hyperscalers haven't cut back on this pending at all. As I keep telling you, and I talk about this nightly, as Jensen Wong, the CEO of Nvidia put it, we're a couple hundred billion dollars into a multitrillion dollar infrastructure build out Inquired. In other words, he thinks we're not even 10% through this transformation. I think he knows more than the bears. How about the technicals? All right, take a look at this daily chart of The S&P 500 finally points out that the 50 day moving average has held firm as a powerful tool of support ever since the post Liberation day lows in April, confirming that there's been strong institutional buying during this period. There have been very few big down days on heavy volume. Each time the markets dip like the beginning of August or the beginning of September, the big institutions almost immediately stepped in to buy. Despite all the hand wringing you hear on tv, the People who actually run money. Well, they seem pretty darn happy with this market. Nice floor. Next chart. Check out this daily chart of the Ark ARK Innovation etf. That's Cathie Woods Baskets legendary whatever you want to call her. But she likes these high volatility stocks. And this is a chart of her extreme volatility stuff with a heavy tilt toward technology. This growth ETF just completed what Farmee considers a healthy period of consolidation from mid July through early September. Basically thinks the growth stocks with big momentum had to digest their gains from their lows in April through the highs in July. Last month that period of consolidation ended and the Ark Innovation ETF caught fire. What about all the endless chatter about how the markets markets to frothy to euphoric for actual exuberance? Remember I said a third of it actually is. Just look at the Goldman Sachs US Equity Sentiment indicator right now. Foaming points out that it's actually at below average levels. Sure doesn't look all that exuberant to me. That's pretty dispositive. Then there's a Deutsche Bank Consolidated Equity Positioning Index measuring global investors net exposure to equities. Right now the readings above average in terms of average Overall bullishness since 2010, we're at the 70th percentile on the higher end, but certainly not at extreme levels. Makes sense to me. Every uptick in this market is met with disbelief. We've got a legion of skeptics telling us that this bull market is doomed. You hear them all day. As Fahmi points out, real bubbles don't get called out this loudly while they're happening. Remember when Alan Greenspan warned of irrational exuberance? That was December of 1996. We still had more than three years left in the dot com boom and you made a legendary amount of money during that period. You don't need to get too worried about an AI bubble until the bears give up. And that definitely hasn't happened yet, has it? Foamy has. One last point. We're now in the fourth quarter and historically the fourth quarter tends to be strong. From 1950 through 2024, the SMEs rallied on average 4.2%. That's pretty strong now. And that's just the baseline and yours where the S and P has hit new highs in August, September, October. Meaning like this one, it's rallied nearly 7%. These are just gigantic numbers in the fourth quarter. And it hasn't finished the fourth quarter in the red in a single time. Keep in mind when we get to the fourth Quarter lots of money managers will easily buy up the market's biggest winners because they have to show their clients what they own. And at the end of the year, if they don't own the best performers, we know what they do look like morons. And they get angry calls from their investors who want to know why the heck they put their money in the one in their hedge fund when that hedge fund didn't buy in video. Here's the bottom line. The charges interpreted by Joe family suggest that this market's got more room to run, maybe a lot more room to run. And all the complaints that you hear about irrational exuberance, well, it simply aren't point out by the facts. When I look at his charts and I listen to what he has to say, I have to say I agree with him. Let's go to Charlie in Texas. Charlie.

[Caller/Viewer]

Hello, Jim. First time, long time.

[Jim Cramer]

Excellent.

[Caller/Viewer]

And I would like to thank you concerning the program you had last week about mutual funds and their financial objectives with the fund manager and the fund itself. To me that was a real eye opener.

[Jim Cramer]

Oh, thank you. You know, it's tough stuff, but I got to tell it as it is. You know me.

[Caller/Viewer]

And yeah, I tell you that that really helped me quite a bit. And the reason I'm calling is about 3 weeks ago I bought a small position of Broadcom and I was wondering should I buy some now or should I wait for a while?

[Jim Cramer]

Well, I like Broadcom very much. I usually don't like to violate basis. You know, you've already got a good position, I'm sure, but we own this one for Chapel Trust. Jeff Marks and I go back and forth all the time about how great it is and it's certainly included in my book how to make money in any market. I would tell you this, it would. It wouldn't hurt you to buy more. I think it's that good a situation. All right. The charges interpreted by Joe Fami suggest that there's no sign of any bubble or any bursting. If anything, maybe the market's got more room to run. I agree. Much for me buddy. Include my sit down with the top brass at Agneco Eagle Mines. The move higher than gold has shown no signs of stopping. And you know I'm a believer. So I gotta check in with one of the leaders in the mining space to see what's next for the precious metal. Then is it time to rethink the traditional safety trade as we know it? I'll give you my take on what is most beleaguer cohort and how it fits into today's market. And of course, all your calls, Rapid Fire. Tonight's edition of the Lightning round. So stay with Kramer. What do you make of the spectacular rally in the price of gold taking in above $4,000 an ounce for the first time in history? I always tell you to have some gold in your portfolio. Yes, I am a gold bug as a kind of insurance against inflation or currency devaluation or just economic chaos. And this year that insurance policy has paid off. Gold's up 54% for the year. But you know what? You've done much, much better if you own certain gold miners. Take Kramer fab at Nico Eagle mines up blistering 117% year to date. These guys have a bunch of low cost mines coming online in the not too distant future. In other words, as long as gold prices stay high, I mean these guys can make a killing. So let's take a closer look with Sean Boyd. He's the chairman of the board, former longtime CEO of Agnico Eco Mines, a long time guest of man money. Mr. Boyd, welcome back to Man Money.

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

Great to be here. Jim.

[Jim Cramer]

Sure enough to first comment you on your the left side. You're of what I regard as some great decor in your office. The gold bull.

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

I think you gave that to me when gold was around $1,000.

[Jim Cramer]

Well, and you and I both thought it should be much, much higher now that it's at $4,000. Do you stay as, are you as convinced still like I am that it can still go higher?

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

Yes. I think there's the trend spend in place. For the last 20, 30 years, gold's been under accumulation by central banks and debts around the world aren't going down and there's still inability or unwillingness to really make the tough choices to manage debt. So this is a perfect environment for gold when we have certainty in the world and stability papers king. But when you have uncertainty and instability and disorder, gold is king. And that's where we are.

[Jim Cramer]

You often also taught me over the multiple years you've been on the show that it's not like we're finding a whole lot of supply. It's become very hard to find gold.

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

I think that's interesting. So we're getting a lot of questions from investors that are sort of new to the space. They're saying yes, but at these prices, aren't we going to see a massive wave of incoming mine supply? And we're just not. This is still a challenging business from the perspective of finding high quality deposits and to get them built in a reasonable amount of time. I know having been in this industry for 40 years that the cost to build a new mine are still high. Permitting timelines are longer. So even at $4,000 or $5,000 there's not a massive wave of new mine supply coming on stream. There's just not.

[Jim Cramer]

And you have suggested to me over and over again that that model which says you can go all over the world and find gold has not been panned out. There have been governments that have turned on established gold miners versus Agnico Eco, which you said, listen, here's the way we're going to do it. We care about safety, we care about sovereignty, we care about the rule of law. How's that working now?

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

Yeah, that strategy has been in place for decades and the strategy for us is to follow and take, follow the geology look for those good rocks but only go into those parts of the world where we could see a multi decade sort of Runway to build a high quality business. And it's really sticking to that strategy because it was well matched to our skills and well matched. The opportunity set has really paid off. And I would suggest that as we get into a higher gold price environment, the attractiveness for governments in more difficult countries to expropriate or want more of an ownership interest in their gold mines, that only goes up.

[Jim Cramer]

Now let's talk about a natural demand. World Gold Council estimates that gold jewelry demand still represents the largest source of annual demand for gold at roughly 50%. Is that still, is that stable even at these prices?

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

I would suggest yes. But the real driver here is really central bank demand. And I think the trend here has always been there. It's just being, people are more aware of it now. If we roll it back a few years when we were first chatting, I think just before 2010, in 2010, roughly the Chinese decided for the first time that they were going to open up their markets for the importation of gold. So they've been playing the long game here with gold like they have with critical metals. And so as we've seen central banks start to buy it. That's the pillar and that's, and that's the basket that's sort of underneath the market here. And now we've got these issues with debt, we've got the underlying potential of more inflation. All of these things are really sort of building on top of that underlying demand which has been coming from central banks and from jewelry and now more from the investment side.

[Jim Cramer]

What do you think about the ratio and relationship between Crypto and gold these days?

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

Well, I think when we talked a few years back around with crypto, when it was around $20,000, you know, there was talk then that crypto was really going to become the new gold and gold was going to become irrelevant. That hasn't happened. Here we are record high stock prices, record high gold prices, record high crypto. I think crypto and gold can exist together. And I think what's really exciting about gold is really this digitization. It's going to create new markets for gold. It's going to create new demand for gold. And really what digitization for gold, Gold is something the World Gold Council has been working on is to actually make gold more liquid and make it more financially easier to access. And I think that's going to open up new markets for it. So that's an exciting additional source of future demand.

[Jim Cramer]

Well, look, I buy my gold through Costco and they so rarely have it. It's just a great trade. I know that your CEO totally agrees with me on this. How come they can't just stock it? How come Costco runs out of it every day?

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

Yeah, that's a tough one. And I think that goes to the underlying issue about having gold being available in the market. And we've seen that for years. And so up here in Costco, what Costco is selling is a 1 oz gold maple leaf. And that maple leaf contains 100% of the gold in that coin comes from our Detour Lake mine. So this is a way to sort of make those coins more attractive. But we'd love to see more gold in retail hands. And I think that's certainly what China wanted. Not just for the government to own more gold. They wanted their citizens to own more gold. And I think that's a way that we should be moving in the west as well.

[Jim Cramer]

Do you think, like I do, that all gold is doing is really catching up to where it should have been all along?

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

Yes. And I've lived this for 40 years and I've seen gold at 250. So this has been a steady climb up. And we actually look at Gold's performance since 2000 to the end of September of this year. Gold's up a total of 1400%. The annualized CAGR is almost 11%. So it's done well, but it's done well very quietly. And people are just sort of catching on now. And I think that's a good thing.

[Jim Cramer]

Do you think that. I know when the President's talking to the head of Canada, I think, oh, My God. Are they going to somehow tariff Canadian gold in a way that makes it so that we should be in American gold and not that we have to worry about that with you, but do you think those things, those discussions are happening?

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

No. Gold is actually Canada's second largest export. So we're a big producer. But I don't think we're going to see tariff on gold. Tariff is gold is money. Now, I don't see that. I think. But the gold industry, it's kind of interesting because the focus is on critical metals and gold, they say, is not a critical metal. But without the gold business and the technical skill set and the relationships that gold miners have around the world, we wouldn't be able in the west to build a critical metals business without that foundation that the gold industries been working and building for the, for many, many decades. So the gold industry is in a good position. It's still hard. We're still dealing with nature as an industry. But the good thing is costs seem to be under control. So all that margin is really going to the bottom line. If we look at the current spot price, it's about $750 higher than what the average realized price was in the second quarter of this year. So all that goes to the bottom line. So you're going to see tremendous growth in the industry's ebitda.

[Jim Cramer]

Well, Sean, I want to thank you as always for your insight. It's incredibly valuable. I hope our viewers listen. I know I sure did. That's Sean Boyd. He's the chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines, aem, the best there is. Thank you, Sean.

[Sean Boyd, Chairman of Agnico Eagle Mines]

Thank you, Jim.

[Jim Cramer]

Everybody's back in.

[Mad Money Announcer]

Coming up, Cramer takes your calls. And the sky's the limit. It it's a fast fire lightning round next.

[Jim Cramer]

It is time. It's time for time for after the song Bye Bye. Just questions of time. I step here, play the sound and then the lightning round is over. Are you ready, Ski? That's how the light round crash up. We start with Bill in Oregon. Bill.

[Indeed Advertiser]

Hi, Jim.

[Caller/Viewer]

Thanks for taking my call. And thanks for keeping the average investor involved in the market. Well, that's what I want investor for. I've been an investor for 55 years, always individual stocks. And I have two lists. Ones that I own, stocks I own. And the second list is stocks that I have previously owned or monitored. And I was looking over the second list and I'm noticing one of the major companies that I have on the second list is really crashed out. And look further and see they're losing money. And I believe years ago you had these officials, company officials on your show.

[Jim Cramer]

Okay.

[Caller/Viewer]

International flavor and fragrance.

[Jim Cramer]

Iff.

[Indeed Advertiser]

Okay.

[Jim Cramer]

The problem there is that it's just flat lying. The sales, a flat line. There's really nothing that I can say that's good about. It has no growth and that's disappointing. It used to be a better company. Let's go to Dennis in Florida. Dennis.

[Caller/Viewer]

Booyah.

[Indeed Advertiser]

Jim. How you doing, brother?

[Jim Cramer]

I'm having a good day. How about you?

[Caller/Viewer]

Great day, brother. Love the market. Long time admirer, brother. And I. And I appreciate you taking my call.

[Jim Cramer]

Thank you.

[Caller/Viewer]

I gotta say go pack, go. I just gotta throw it in there from Wisconsin.

[Jim Cramer]

All right. Sure. Understand.

[Michael, CEO of CoreWeave]

Good.

[Caller/Viewer]

So it's as hot down here as it is in the markets. And God bless great America and President Trump. My question for you today, Jim, is do I buy or sell New Fortress.

[Jim Cramer]

Energy And X Ecstasy is about a really, really big move. Why don't you do this? Why don't you no doubt probably have your cost basis as well below this. Take out your cost basis tomorrow and you can let it run. Let's go to Bryce in California. Bryce.

[Indeed Advertiser]

Hey, Jim.

[Jim Cramer]

Booyah. I grew up in the living room.

[Caller/Viewer]

With my dad watching you as a kid. So thank you.

[Jim Cramer]

Yeah, you're quite welcome. Yeah.

[Caller/Viewer]

My question is about Soundhound. I'm up over 50% in the last few months. It's a leader in AI agentic agents.

[Jim Cramer]

And emerging voice and vocal AI. Yeah. You see, Soundhound is a company that got. What happens to. Got Nvidia's endorsement and ever since then it's been on fire. I say this, I say it's up a great deal. It's not making money. I would take a little bit off tomorrow and then let the rest run. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the conclusion of the Lightning round.

[Mad Money Announcer]

The Lightning round is sponsored by Charles Schwab. Coming up out with the old Kramer's breaking down how to find new growth opportunities in this market and where you should position for the long term.

[Jim Cramer]

Next we gotta rethink the idea. Safety stocks. That's a major theme of how to make money in any market. It's a controversial one because my conclusion is very unorthodox. I realized the only true safety lies not the stocks of companies that make stuff you buy no matter what the economy does, but in stocks of solid growth companies. This is Chuck Fold. Their traditional safety stocks like the consumer package Goose Place are deadly these days. But the superior growth stocks, that's what comes back after the big sell offs. That's what works. The market didn't used to operate this way, but times have changed. If you scrutinize the new low list, what do you see? It's all the old safety stocks. What's down a lot. How about Kimberly Clark? Down 2% today, nearly 9% for the year. How about Clorox, down 26% for the year. Campbell's? That old story down 27%. Kraft Heinz off 18%. McCormick. It didn't look like a terrible quarter when the Spice cup reported the other day, but the stock was slaughtered anyway. PepsiCo reports tomorrow it's got a 4% yield. A powerful activist firm trying to get that stock back in the plus column. But it's still down more than 8% for the year. Then again, that's a lot better than Conagra, down nearly 33%.

[Indeed Advertiser]

Ouch.

[Jim Cramer]

So there's no safety in these stocks. Same goes for many of the pharmaceutical companies. Take a look at my old fave, Bristol Myers, a now poorly performing investing club holding. It's almost a permanent resident on the 52 week low list. It should pay rent first basement digs. But you could say that about many of the drug stocks. Safety first. How old? Safety the last. On the other hand, the tremendous growth stocks are hanging in there like champions. This is a complete inversion of how things were when I first started out in the business. Yep, when I got into the business of professional money management at Goldman Sachs, the Japanese were said that this was the early 80s. They were buying everything that moved. But the Chinese, they were trying to obliterate our companies by selling knockoffs and wiping out whole industries like they did to people like my father work in the big gift wrap mills. They just couldn't compete. So what did we do? Well, we pushed the stocks of Heinz and Kimberly Clark and Bristol Myers Squibb. We knew that they were never going to have a Chinese bottle of ketchup on the table. We were right. Everything's changed now though. These companies used to have the world as their oyster. Now they've run out of new places to sell. They're being hit by inflation, by tariffs by Costco, which knocks them off with superior private label products. But growth stocks, These are stocks that don't need the Fed to cut. They don't need to worry about inflation. They're not hostage to anything except their own innovation. And they're not under any sort of real attack from overseas. That's what allows their stocks to bounce back so fast. When we coined the term Fang about 12 years ago in the show we did it with the assumption that you could own these stocks through thick and thin. We've had a recession since then, Covid Liberation day and so many other vicious stocks sell offs. Yet almost every time they've come back, their performance far far exceeds the s and P500. But the food and drug stocks. There's a phrase when using heavy machinery, safety never takes a vacation. Here's what I say. The only safety out there is growth. Because these days the traditional safety stocks, they always seem to be on vacation. I'd like to say, as always, the bull market summer. I promise about it just for you right here on Man Money. I'm Jim Cramer. I'll see you next time.

[Dell PC Advertiser]

All opinions expressed by Jim Cramer on this podcast are solely Kramer's opinions and do not reflect the opinions of cnbc, NBC Universal or their parent company or affiliate, and may have been previously disseminated by Kramer on television, radio, Internet or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Jim Cramer as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. Kremer's opinions are based upon information he considers reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such. To view the full Mad Money disclaimer, please visit cnbc.com madmoneydisclaimer It's Cybersecurity Awareness.

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Month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, LifeLock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected with a 30 day free [e-mail] Specialoffer terms apply.