Mad Money w/ Jim Cramer – December 16, 2025

Podcast: Mad Money w/ Jim Cramer
Host: Jim Cramer (CNBC)
Featured Guests: Max Levchin (CEO, Affirm), Sanjeev Lamba (CEO, Linde)
Theme: Navigating stock market turbulence—why using tech trumps making tech, insights from Affirm and Linde, and Cramer’s rapid-fire Lightning Round.

Episode Overview

Jim Cramer guides listeners through the confusing terrain of Wall Street, focusing on current market headwinds in tech, the value of companies using technology versus making it, and features two in-depth interviews—first with Max Levchin, CEO of Affirm (Buy Now Pay Later leader), followed by Sanjeev Lamba, CEO of Linde (industrial gases). Cramer also provides his classic “Lightning Round” rapid stock picks, and closes with sharp commentary on the reality behind nuclear and AI-stock hype.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Cramer’s Favorite Tech Stock is... Procter & Gamble

• Context: Rather than traditional tech manufacturers, Cramer’s bullish on business-to-business users of technology.
• Reasoning:
  • Procter & Gamble (P&G) is called a “house of innovation” due to its massive R&D efforts ($2B+/year) and heavy use of AI and digital twin technology.
  • Stock is down 13% for the year, uniquely cheap, and has “derisked” after recent management guidance of a likely earnings miss.
  • New CEO onboard; strong dividend yield of 2.9%.
  • P&G’s tech use (e.g., AI for supply chain, cost-saving new factory design, data-driven inventory cuts) is what Cramer sees as the true asset in a tumultuous market.
• Quote:

  "My favorite tech stocks right now are the business to business users of technology. I think these companies will increasingly be given a chance to buy amazing tech that will help them cut costs and bring new products to market much faster than ever." – Jim Cramer [03:04]

2. Market Conditions and the Big Tech “Spending Wars”

• Overview: Tech giants (Amazon, Meta, Microsoft, Alphabet, etc.) are locked in massive spending battles to maintain their edge, particularly in AI.
• Key Points:
  • “Mag 7” tech stocks and semiconductors have had unsustainable rallies; now retracing.
  • AWS (Amazon Web Services) is crucial for Amazon’s profits, but Cramer warns about unsustainable capital expenditures industry-wide.
  • Meta’s “spending like mad,” risking $100B next year for data centers/power, driven by AI arms race.
  • Microsoft’s entrenched position, but demands constant and expensive innovation to compete in cloud.
  • Google’s expenditure (e.g., $20B/year to Apple for search default) is “money well spent,” but only because it’s winning.
  • Core concern: “Big tech stocks can’t advance unless they rein in their spending. But I just don’t know how they can.” – Jim Cramer [08:06]
• Bottom Line:

  “The difference between the Big Tech and Procter & Gamble? Most of the tech companies are simply spending to keep up… Procter spends to dominate.” – Jim Cramer [10:31]

3. Lightning Round: Stock Q&A and Sector Snapshots

Cramer fields quick stock queries from listeners:

• Verizon (VZ): Not a bond substitute—don’t buy common stocks just for yield. "Never buy a common stock as a bond." [10:54]
• Snowflake (SNOW): Decline tied to the AI/data center “basket” selloff, not company-specific red flags.
• Sencora, BP, Perpetua: Sencora—prefers Cardinal Health’s visionary leadership. On BP—“sell it before you hang up.” Perpetua Resources—recommends Agnico instead.
• Cramer’s tone is candid, often folksy, and loaded with stock-specific advice.

Interview: Max Levchin (CEO, Affirm)

[12:48–24:07]

a. Affirm's Business Model & Credit Underwriting

• Levchin describes Affirm’s approach as:
  Helping consumers avoid late/revolving fees by sophisticated underwriting. “If you get really good at underwriting, you don't have to charge late fees. You don't have to throw in some hidden charges here and there.” – Max Levchin [14:02]
• Cramer’s Reflection:
  • Reminisces on his own “credit card trap” experience—Levchin notes the system is designed to confuse and trap borrowers.
• Levchin on Usury and Regulation:
  • Advocates for more transparency and capping junk fees.
  • Suggests moving industry towards “simple interest, fixed-term transactions” would help consumers escape perpetual debt:

    “Maybe my biggest wish… is the industry would just go towards simple interest, fixed terms transactions. The rate almost doesn't matter if you know when you're done paying off.” – Max Levchin [16:43]

b. How Affirm Makes Lending Decisions

• Underwriting Process:
  • Pulls real-time credit, analyzes obligations/cash flow. If unsure, may request consumer’s cash-flow info for deeper review.
  • “Because we don't charge late fees, we have total alignment with our consumers. If they don't pay us back, we just lose money.” – Max Levchin [18:15]

c. Growth Areas and New Partnerships

• Revolve & UK Expansion:
  • New partnership with Revolve (big e-commerce brand), especially significant for Affirm’s expansion into the UK—“We have a lot of conviction around UK. We think it’s going to be a very big deal.” – Max Levchin [21:29]
  • Shopify partnership in the UK also noted as highly promising, based on success in US/Canada.

d. Consumer Trends and Holiday Stats

• Affirm’s Insights:
  • Black Friday/Cyber Monday saw strong growth—travel-related spending up 47% YoY, Gen Z travel up 75% YoY.
  • 70%+ growth in zero-percent loans; six-month payment plans nearly tripled, indicating budget-stretching consumer behavior.
  • "Our credit numbers are quite strong, so they're paying their bills back, but they're looking to stretch their dollar. They are price conscious, they're looking for deals." – Max Levchin [23:21]

Market Segments: Tech Data Center Stocks & AI Hype

[26:02–35:37]

• Oracle & Broadcom:
  • Oracle: Disappointing earnings, project delays, cash-flow worries, questionable OpenAI client solvency.
  • Broadcom: Market “overreacted” to margin guidance; Cramer remains confident in CEO and sees buying opportunity.
• On AI and Data Centers:
  • Cramer is cautious on “bubble” talk:

    “If there was a bubble, it burst at the end of October when pretty much all these stocks stopped making money and most of them started going down during the end of the year of magical investing. Remember that bubble brewing? It popped.” – Jim Cramer [10:31]

Interview: Sanjeev Lamba (CEO, Linde)

[35:54–41:46]

a. Linde Stock Pullback—What Went Wrong?

• Assures listeners the business model and “algorithm” for 10%+ EPS growth remain intact, despite recent stock downturn.
• Breakdown of Lind's 'Earnings Algorithm':
  • 1. Disciplined capital allocation: Project backlog, acquisitions, buybacks = 4–6% EPS growth.
  • 2. Pricing & productivity (including AI-powered savings): Another 4–6% EPS growth, not relying on macro headwinds.
  • 3. Macro tailwinds: Can push growth to double digits.
  • Example: In 2021, volumes grew 7-8%, EPS up 30%.
• Quote:

  “Nothing’s broken…Linde has got an algorithm and a business model that is robust.” – Sanjeev Lamba [36:09]

b. End Markets and “Resiliency”

• 35%+ of end markets (electronics, healthcare, food & beverage) are insulated from macro swings—these are “resilient and expected to grow.”
• More cyclical markets (energy, metals, mining, manufacturing) show “green shoots” in aerospace, construction, LNG, data centers, EV/battery production.
• Company is well-positioned for industrial growth when cyclical markets rebound.

c. Insider Buying and Long-Term Commitment

• Lamba recently purchased $1M of Linde stock in open market, reiterating confidence and long-term focus:

  “I'm going to hold this. I do not sell my Linde stock. I believe in its long-term future and a compounding benefit that Linde provides to its investors.” – Sanjeev Lamba [40:22]

d. Linde’s Role in Commercial Space & Aerospace

• Linde supplies industrial gases and rare gases to fuel 3/4 of US rocket launches and most satellite launches.
• "Every time you hear of a satellite going up, you got a bit of our gas going there to just put it into its orbit." – Sanjeev Lamba [41:29]

Cramer on Nuclear: Don’t Bank on Hype

[44:06–47:55]

• Warns hyperscalers about relying on nuclear for cheap, near-term power—projects cost too much, take too long.
• Highlights “year of magical investing” is over; recommends profit-taking in nuclear stocks like Fermi, Oklo, and NewScale Power.
• Praises established players like GE Vernova—actually building nuclear, versus those trading only on promise.

Notable Quote:

“If the CEO of a hyperscaler wants to go all in on nuclear power…think again. Nuclear plants take ages to build…the upfront cost and overruns enormous. The truth is…the need cheap accessible energy. And that means natural gas.” – Jim Cramer [44:06]

Notable Quotes

• “You want those who use the technology, not those who make it.”
  – Jim Cramer [02:54]
• “Transparency…tapping out late fees…making sure people are informed exactly about how they're borrowing money…that would be great.”
  – Max Levchin [16:43]
• “If there was a bubble, it burst at the end of October…Remember that bubble brewing? It popped.”
  – Jim Cramer [10:31]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• P&G as a “tech stock,” tech market analysis: [02:30–10:45]
• Lightning Round (stock Q&A): [10:45–12:48] and [41:50–44:00]
• Max Levchin/Affirm Interview: [12:48–24:07]
• Oracle/Broadcom/Data center market analysis: [26:02–35:37]
• Linde CEO Interview: [35:54–41:46]
• Nuclear stock warning: [44:06–47:55]

Summary Takeaway

• Cramer champions “tech users” over “tech makers,” spotlighting P&G as a tech play.
• Tech giants face spending headwinds; better bargains may lie elsewhere.
• Affirm’s CEO unpacks financial system reform and confident UK expansion.
• Linde’s CEO delivers industrial optimism, backed by deep market diversification and aerospace momentum.
• Cramer advises skepticism for nuclear and AI hype stocks—look for fundamentals and solid balance sheets.

For actionable, candid, and entertaining investment analysis, this Mad Money episode offers a rich perspective on where to find opportunity amid volatility—always with Cramer’s signature flair and wisdom.