Mad Money w/ Jim Cramer 7/31/25

Summary

Mad Money w/ Jim Cramer – Episode Summary (7/31/25)

Release Date: August 1, 2025

In this riveting episode of Mad Money with Jim Cramer, host Jim Cramer delves deep into the intricacies of the stock market, highlighting pivotal earnings reports, dissecting corporate strategies, and providing actionable investment insights. The episode features insightful interviews with industry leaders, including CEOs from Carvana, FICO, and Agnico Eagle Mines, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of current market dynamics.

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1. Market Valuations and the Figma IPO Frenzy

Timestamp: 01:39 – 12:27

Jim Cramer kicks off the episode by addressing the monumental impact of Figma's Initial Public Offering (IPO).

Jim Cramer [05:15]: "Somehow Figma captured the zeitgeist of the entire market. Even as the averages got hit today... This market went down because of Figma."

Cramer emphasizes the significance of valuations in market movements, arguing that Figma's inflated stock price overshadowed robust earnings reports from tech giants like Microsoft and Meta.

Jim Cramer [07:45]: "Valuation matters. What matters to this market is to be reasonable. And we weren't today."

He warns of the dangers of "ludicrous valuations," suggesting that such euphoria can signal a potential market downturn.

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2. Carvana's Stellar Performance: Interview with CEO Ernie Garcia

Timestamp: 14:11 – 21:47

In a standout segment, Cramer interviews Ernie Garcia III, Co-Founder and CEO of Carvana, to explore the company's exceptional performance amidst a challenging economic landscape.

Ernie Garcia [16:15]: "We've got a great team that's been at it for 13 years, working hard to build a customer experience. I think that team has a lot to be proud of."

Garcia highlights Carvana's unique approach to the automotive retail sector, combining sales, finance, logistics, and software to streamline the customer experience. The company's impressive growth and profitability are attributed to strategic acquisitions and a relentless focus on customer satisfaction.

Ernie Garcia [17:00]: "There's a lot of room to run and a lot of work to do. We're going to keep charging."

Cramer is visibly impressed, noting Carvana's potential to sustain its upward trajectory.

Jim Cramer [21:25]: "I love this. That's why I got behind the stock."

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3. FICO's Battle with Regulatory Challenges: Interview with CEO Will Lanzai

Timestamp: 23:25 – 32:34

Cramer shifts focus to the credit scoring titan FICO, discussing the recent allegations of monopoly practices by the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA).

Jim Cramer [30:03]: "To me, monopolist means that you raise prices, you're able to screw everybody and everybody gets hurt. How much of a closing cost is FICO?"

Will Lanzai, President and CEO of FICO, contends that FICO's latest score, FICO 10T, is superior in predicting credit defaults compared to its predecessors and competitors like Vantage.

Will Lanzai [26:51]: "FICO 10T is the most predictive score. It identifies and prevents the most credit defaults."

Despite a strong quarterly performance, Lanzai attributes FICO's stock decline to regulatory skepticism rather than financial shortcomings.

Will Lanzai [29:02]: "We've done $313 billion in originations with FICO 10T in the nonconforming mortgage market."

Cramer expresses frustration over the regulatory body's inability to recognize the efficacy of FICO's advanced scoring models, underscoring the potential long-term implications for the housing market.

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4. Agnico Eagle Mines: Mastering Cost Control Amid Inflation

Timestamp: 32:54 – 38:38

Jim Cramer welcomes Mark Judy, President and CEO of Agnico Eagle Mines, to discuss the company's remarkable ability to maintain low costs amidst global inflationary pressures.

Mark Judy [33:54]: "When the gold price goes up, our owners want all of that leverage. The only reason people buy our stock is they want the full upside to gold."

Judy attributes Agnico's success to strict adherence to mine plans, experienced teams, and strategic acquisitions, such as the integration of Adesa, improving operational efficiency.

Mark Judy [35:05]: "We're trying to run a high-quality company that happens to be in the gold space."

Cramer commends Agnico for its robust free cash flow, debt reduction, and strategic expansion plans, positioning it as a top investment in the gold mining sector.

Jim Cramer [37:24]: "You're exactly right. Let me give you two simple examples... These ore bodies are there."

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5. Lightning Round: Rapid Fire Stock Opinions

Timestamp: 38:42 – 42:59

In the high-energy Lightning Round, Cramer field questions from callers, offering quick buy, sell, or hold recommendations:

• Carl from Illinois [40:07]: Wendy's – Cramer expresses skepticism about the upcoming report, hinting at potential declines.
• Sharon from Maine [40:41]: Spotify – With the economy faltering, Cramer remains uncertain and advises caution.
• Brooks from Colorado [40:57]: Symbotics – Cramer remains non-committal, indicating the stock might not meet expectations.

This segment showcases Cramer's trademark blend of enthusiasm and critical analysis, providing listeners with bite-sized investment insights.

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6. Dichotomy of Enterprise vs. Consumer Economies

Timestamp: 43:22 – 47:28

Cramer underscores the current economic landscape's bifurcation, contrasting the robust enterprise economy against the struggling consumer economy.

Jim Cramer [43:22]: "We have two economies these days. There's the incredibly strong enterprise economy... And then we have the consumer economy... screaming rate cut."

He critiques the declining performance of consumer-focused companies like Align Technology, Shake Shack, and Lowe's, attributing their struggles to rising costs and weakening consumer confidence.

Jim Cramer [46:00]: "People aren't able to afford steak. How about Lowe's?"

Conversely, companies like Carvana thrive by offering compelling value propositions, highlighting the stark contrast between sectors.

Jim Cramer [45:30]: "It's a huge bargain. The pricing is just so compelling that it strikes a real chord with the consumer."

Cramer concludes by expressing concern over the Federal Reserve's stance on interest rates, suggesting that relief measures are becoming necessary to support the faltering consumer sector.

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7. Concluding Insights

Timestamp: 47:28 – 48:07

As the episode wraps up, Cramer reflects on the discussed topics, emphasizing the importance of understanding market valuations and the divergent trajectories of different economic sectors. He reiterates his commitment to guiding listeners through the complexities of Wall Street investing.

Jim Cramer [48:07]: "Bull markets on my promise just for you right here on Mad Money. I'm sure."

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Notable Quotes:

• Jim Cramer [05:15]: "Somehow Figma captured the zeitgeist of the entire market. This market went down because of Figma."

• Ernie Garcia [16:15]: "We've got a great team that's been at it for 13 years, working hard to build a customer experience."

• Will Lanzai [26:51]: "FICO 10T is the most predictive score. It identifies and prevents the most credit defaults."

• Mark Judy [33:54]: "When the gold price goes up, our owners want all of that leverage."

• Jim Cramer [43:22]: "We have two economies these days. There's the incredibly strong enterprise economy... And then we have the consumer economy..."

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This episode of Mad Money with Jim Cramer offers a rich tapestry of market analysis, corporate strategies, and investor advice, making it an invaluable resource for both seasoned investors and newcomers seeking to navigate the tumultuous waters of Wall Street.

Transcript

[Fidelity Representative]

Don't just ride the index, seek to outperform it with FELC, the Fidelity Enhanced Large Cap Core ETF. Unlike passive ETFs, FELC is run by a team of experts to adapt to market conditions and pursue upside potential wherever it's hiding. And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms just like any other ETF. Discover FELC, the Fidelity Enhanced Large Cap Core ETF part of Fidelity's suite of active ETFs. Learn more at fidelity.com felc before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Contact Fidelity for a prospectus and offering circular or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC Member NYSE SIPC.

[CNBC News Anchor]

A key July jobs report Is trade uncertainty impacting the economy and the labor market? What the data could mean for future rate cuts Employment numbers and analysis squawk box tomorrow 8:30 Eastern and streaming on CNBC Plus.

[Jim Cramer]

Hey, I'm Kramer. Welcome to Mad Money. Welcome to Kramer. I gotta do my friends. Hey look, I'm just trying to save you a little money. My job is not just to entertain, but to explain, teach, put in context. Call me 1-800-743, CNBC. Tweet me imkramer Valuation Matters sure, you can pay whatever you want for stock. You it's personally you you have to tell anybody. But the price you pay does ultimately matter to your bank account. Especially if you're one of the people who got in on the initial public offering of Figma, the digital design company which priced its IPO at $33 today, then saw it open for trading at $85 and finished the day at 115 and change. Did you take some off? Did you bring the register? Or did you just let it ride? Somehow Figma captured the zeitgeist of the entire joint no, the entire market. Even as the averages got hit today. Dow sliding with 330 points S&B declining.37%. Nasdaq edging point or 3%. And you know why that happened? Was it the Fed? Was it the President? Was it earnings? No, it happened because of Figma. This market went down because of figma. Why? Because valuation matters. What matters to this market is to be reasonable. And we weren't today. Today was dominated by Euphoria and guess what? Euphoria is bad for business. What should have been about? Well, how about Microsoft? How about Meta? Nope. They were overshadowed by the Fig man Carnival. It was all anyone talked about down here. Call me old fashioned, but I really wanted the market today to be defined by those earnings reports from two tech titans. I'm talking about Microsoft briefly, a $4 trillion company today foreclosing just below that level and matter at just under $2 trillion. I wanted these to be foundational, which is the word that every CEO now uses about anything important, which I have no idea what it means, but it sure sounds great. I wanted it because they smashed estimates. I mean, they crushed them by billions of dol. These were marvels. They did so because they spent fortunes on artificial intelligence, something which many thought to be foolhardy, but it turns out to be they didn't spend enough. Microsoft shocked people by obliterating the earnings estimates, now sells at roughly 35 times earnings. Metta, which blew the estimates away, Kingdom Come, sells for less than 29 times earnings. Given how spectacular these reports were, it was natural, totally natural. The stocks to go up. Microsoft gained nearly 4%. Matta jumping more than 11%. Lots of people today. I heard them, I heard them. They were grousing that these stocks have become too big. Oh, that's not the problem. They were bemoaning that they're now bigger than some national economies. I say they're still too cheap. And most national economies are inflation binging joke. Anyway, I'll take their balance sheets over any country in the whole world. We pay 35 times earnings for Microsoft, 29 times earnings for Metta. Because we look at the benchmark, the valuation, the s and P500 and the aggregate that sells at 24 times earnings. Then we try to assess how much better Microsoft and Meta are than the average stock. And they are really better. You see, we have something to pay something for. We have to do it right. We can't just say oh heck, I'm not going to buy those. Or let's not value them. They're companies with stocks. And we have a tried and true way to value the one that I told you about, the one that involves their earnings and the price we pay. We use relationships to figure out what we should pay. Of course, those relationships can always lead us to strike astray. S and P could quickly fall. Microsoft matter. Maybe it's a spike, but the fact is their earnings were amazing, which is why their stocks were unstoppable. Why am I going through this? First it's because I'm truly astonished by the numbers these two companies put up. They really did belong in that magnificent seven. They're like your Brenner and Steve McQueen. But second and far more palpable. We care about those valuations because even though Met and Microsoft are two of the largest companies the world today's market was defined by the action in a smallish design software company that came public and immediately traded north of 60 times sales. Not earnings. Sales Earnings Good sales Bad sales 1999 Earnings 2025 Now I'm not disparaging Figma here. This is not some profitless company. It makes money. It grows fast. Consistently. I like the product used by everybody. Used by me. Used by my family. Bargain. But there's a problem here. Problem with Figma stock. The price made no sense whatsoever. It's wildly inflated because it doesn't make that much money. In fact it makes so little that I can't even use a price earnings multiple I use for Microsoft. Matter valuation is irrelevant when we talk about Figma relevant? How do we value it then? There's really only one way. You have to judge it on a price to sales basis. And what you look at on that basis using a fully diluted valuation is some at the go out 67 times our rough sales. 67. And that assumes 40% growth. Matter sells the 10 times sales. Microsoft 12 times sales. It just doesn't compute what happened here today? When a day when these two giant companies report a phenomenal numbers with much more of their newfound growth coming from profitable artificial intelligence investments. We had no choice but to focus on Figma because they couldn't get the darn thing open until 1:59pm Figma's all that mattered. A deal price at 33 opened at 85, then went to absurd levels. The Figma deal mattered more than the two giants because it's the worst possible sign of froth. I hate it. They know nothing. You know why I want to do it? I want to call it Figure Newton's Law. That's right. What goes up must come down. Okay? And not tomorrow. Maybe not Monday. But this is Fig Newton's law. You got me. It's just this may mark a whole new phase of the bull market. The phase of ludicrous valuations. That your marvelous thinking will be gone. You have to hope that FIG was a one and done battle of enthusiasm. It just can't be the norm. Did you hear me? And as someone who brought a company public during the heyday of 1999 I know what I'm talking are don't we don't want to go back to the bubble territory. What do we want to focus on? The hits misses Microsoft and that were terrific for a while they ignited everything datacenter but as we waited for Figma to open who saw their net worth catapulted to the sky to the stratosphere Everybody else lost money because the adults know that they have lost control of the narrative. If there are more figments and I don't want it, I don't want it to happen. I just don't want it to happen. The profit taking was tremendous as everybody watched watch the Figma carnival. Yeah, you know like Qualcomm that was down like 8% of geez excuse me Figma. Figma can kill the bull and I don't want to kill after the close we drifted from lunacy back to reality. Amazon imported what I thought was a good quarter healthy bottom bottom went beep. Don't. Don't open your mouth full Jimmy. Much better than expected sales at every division. Even if their web services margin was like oh give me a break. Unfortunately Amazon gave mixed guidance but they always do that. That's what they do. It's my largest position in the travel trust. I'm not worried about it at all. I am worried about what do you think I'm worried about Figma's Law and Amazon stock got hit but please, I mean it's getting crushed in after hours. It's just going to be another buy now. We also heard from Apple whose sales and earnings came in substantially better thanks to surprisingly strong iPhone sales. Even the Chinese business improved. People always want to write off Apple's a no growth company best days behind them. But they just put up 10% revenue growth. A reminder that this remains one of the greatest companies on earth. You know what I say own it, don't trade it. At the end of the day I hope we can go back to focus on earnings rather than getting more IPOs like Figma. We got to put this genie back in a bottle. This is merely a day where one day of higher valuations. I can handle it. The genie's but the genie will wreck us if it stays out. Maybe the best thing is to try to get at least one wish from the genie. Don't let the inmates take over the asylum. The bottom line, if we can stick to price journeys multiples not price to sales that means the bull would still be intact. We can live to make more money another day. Everyone acts like Microsoft met have reached insane valuations that are Way too high. But their stocks are priced very reasonably. If anything, they deserve to be a lot higher. If the figures in the world that have gone to crazy levels and are probably set to go higher still before they repeat the lesson, if they win, then let me just say we are all on borrowed time. Carl in Illinois. Carl? Yeah, Jim. Hey, the stock I'm calling about seems to have no momentum and I'd like to be around when it catches wind. I wanted to get your opinion on Wendy's. Wendy's about to report and it's not going to be pretty. They got steak problem, you know, meat is they got competition. They got so much wrong. The only thing they got right is that darn Baconator because I know my wife eats him in her sleep. Let's go to Sharon and Maine. Sharon. Hey, Jim, just a club member here, really happy with you. Thank you so much for all you do and the whole group. You're kind, you're kind. Let's not, let's, let's keep and what we want to do, remember, we want to get the froth out of the building. That's what I'm trying to do. Bring the rats in, get the froth out. So I'm going to help you. So Spotify with the economy seems to be faltering. What do you think? Buy or hold Shine? I was so mystified by Spotify. That was a really not great number. I don't get it. I don't know what happened. I can't, I can't own the stock until I figure out what the heck happened. All right, look, if we're going to sink to the idea of price to sales, which is what moved on Figma. I got to tell you some. This is going to be this and I don't want it to happen. Microsoft and Meta are priced reasonably. It's the figures that have gotten out of control. Hey, by the way, look at Carvana. That was pretty good today, wasn't it? I mean, that's a high stock, but it's making a lot of money. And now after the close, everyone's bemoaning Amazon. Oh, go ahead. After you order everything tonight on Amazon, you can bom all you want and you can do it through your Apple phone. Good for my wife. Okay. Anyway, the Federal Housing Administrative Finance director Bill Pulte is accusing the credit score company FICO of being a monopoly. I'm going straight to the source and FICO to hear what they have to say. Gold's been glimmering lately. Investors missed the boat. I don't think so. American Eagle is still there to be had. I'm sorry, Agnico Eagle. What I can tell you this is what happens to me when I get when the Figma Carnival should be over. Oh, and don't miss my exclusive with the Gold Company either. All right, what can I say? I'm gonna put all these in my mouth. Yeah, you think I'm into fitness? I'm into fitness in my mouth.

[CNBC News Anchor]

Don't miss a second of Mad Money. Follow imkramer on X. Have a question? Tweet Kramer Madmentions. Send Jim an email to madmoneynbc.com or give us a call at 1-800-743-CNBC. Missed something? Head to madmoney.cnbc.com Fidelity Active ETFs have.

[Fidelity Representative]

The flexibility to shift and transform as markets do the same. So instead of just riding an index, they can seek to outperform it by adapting to market conditions and pursuing new opportunities as they emerge. And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms. Just like any other ETF. Markets can change in real time. Make sure your ETF can too. Learn more at fidelity.com ActiveETFs before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks and charges and expenses. Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs. ETFs are subject to market fluctuation and the risks of their underlying investments. ETFs are subject to management fees and other expenses. Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC Member NYSE SIPC.

[CNBC News Anchor]

A key July jobs report is trade uncertainty impacting the economy and the labor market. What the data could mean for future rate cuts Employment numbers and analysis squawk box tomorrow, 8:30 Eastern and streaming on CNBC. Plus.

[Jim Cramer]

Look at the stock of Carvana Run now. I've been recommending this digital used car retailer for over two years now, and it just keeps winning. In fact, the stock's now more than double, at least from its post Liberation Day low in April. And it never should have sold off like that because in the first place at President Trump's tariffs on imported autos make used cars a lot more valuable. Sure enough, last night Carvana reported a magnificent top and bottom line beat. Tremendous guidance for the current quarter, which is why the stock shot up another 17%. Can it keep running? Let's take a closer look with Ernie Garcia, the third, the co founder, chairman, CEO of Carvana, who we have back since the single digits. Mr. Garcia, congrats on a great quarter. Welcome back to Bit Money. Thank you.

[Ernie Garcia]

Appreciate you having.

[Jim Cramer]

Okay. So, Ernie, how is it possible that Carvana is literally out executing the entire automotive retail category? Oh, wow.

[Ernie Garcia]

Well, thank you for that question. I think. I think the answer lies in the fact that we've got a great team that's been at it for 13 years, working hard to build a customer experience. It's different. And I would like to think we've done that. I'd like to think it's showing up in the numbers now. So I think that team has a lot to be proud of and I hope they are.

[Jim Cramer]

All right, so let's understand, you're two times as profitable as the others. Your fastest growing and most profitable automotive retailer. I did not expect you to be this profitable. I always understood the sales would go. But what are you doing now per car that is making so much more money than the first time I mentioned?

[Ernie Garcia]

You know, I think, you know, we took an ambitious swing at the very beginning. I think you can think of Carvine as being, you know, an automotive retailer, a finance company, a logistics company, a remanufacturing company, a software company. We're sort of all these things stacked together. We're a wholesale company. When consumers buy cars normally there are many different companies with kind of their hands in that transaction. And for us, we do all those things that makes it simpler for our customers and then it means that we can build a great, great business as well. So I think, you know, like I said, we're extremely proud. I think the growth suggests that customers are loving it. I think the profitability suggests that the business is totally different. And I think we still have a ton of work to do and we're excited to do it.

[Jim Cramer]

Tell me about 38 minutes. What can be done in 38 minutes?

[Ernie Garcia]

So we had a customer. Thank you for bringing that up as well. We had a customer this quarter that went onto our website, you know, got a value for their car, and in 38 minutes they were able to get through the whole transaction process, drop their car off and have money in their account. I think that's pretty hard to do. Right? It's hard, hard to give customers a huge selection on the retail side and a simple transaction experience on the sell side where they can go through all that that fast, have the whole thing over, and it requires A ton of great people doing a ton of work in the background that is often unseen and not thought about. But it's getting all those details right that makes, you know, simple experiences possible very quickly.

[Jim Cramer]

Some people told me today that the stock can keep going up, Jim, because the market could be tapped out. They're almost done. The statistics for the market would indicate otherwise, correct?

[Ernie Garcia]

Sure. Why? I think, you know, something that served us pretty well as a business. We try to stay focused on the customer and the customer offering and building something big over time. And I think the stock takes care of itself. But I think something that's amazing about this market is there's 40 million cars, you know, every year sold in the US that are used. There's another 16 million new cars sold every year in the US so we're about one and a half percent of that market today, even though we're the second largest retailer today. And we're only 1% of the total US car market. So I think there's a lot of room to run and a lot of work to do. I think we've got a great team to do it. We're going to keep charging.

[Jim Cramer]

And what exactly is the multiple multi year goal? What are we trying to accomplish here?

[Ernie Garcia]

So our next milestone that we said is to sell 3 million cars. You know, that's about five times our current scale, which sounds like a lot, but it's, you know, we've been through a couple of different five time multiples in our history and we hope to get to another one pretty quick here. The goal is to do that in the next five to ten years.

[Jim Cramer]

Right now talk to us about the advantage you have about where you're getting your cars. An acquisition that a lot of people question for a couple bill a few years ago that's clearly working out. It's going to give you multiple, multiple advantages each year.

[Ernie Garcia]

Yeah, so. So we buy many cars directly from customers, you know, that 38 minute transactions, buying a car from a customer. We buy many cars from commercial sellers, cars coming off lease or what have you. We buy many cars from auction, which is where many sellers accumulate cars and sell them in bulk. And a couple of years ago we bought a company called adesa, which is the second largest wholesaler of used cars in the country. That acquisition's gone incredibly well. We were lucky to have a great team there that was wide open to all the crazy things that we wanted to do to make the business simpler and make it even better for our customers, both on the wholesale side and on the retail side and I think we're doing a ton of stuff together. You know, we've integrated 12 of their locations where we can now recondition cars and wholesale cars at the same locations. That's one of those behind the scenes things that, that customers don't necessarily see, but makes the whole business more efficient. I think. Like I said, we've got a lot more to do there. We've got a great team to do it and some great assets to keep building.

[Jim Cramer]

There are many times when it's always great to buy a used car. I bought many used cars. Then there are times where the national headlines in the actual tariff situation makes it so it's just far more advantage to buy a used car. Talk to me about the advantage of a used car versus a new car right now.

[Ernie Garcia]

Sure. I think, you know, different people like different things, but I think something that's great about, you know, used cars, they've been through the, the fast part of their depreciation cycle. And so they tend to be lower price, they tend to depreciate less and so it costs less to own it. And so, you know, that, that, that for a lot of people is an attractive property. We try to make sure that we've got used cars that are, you know, one year old and we go, you know, all the way out to 12, 13, 14 years old and try to cover the whole spectrum of prices so customers can find what they're looking for when they come to the site.

[Jim Cramer]

You have been adamant that the E commerce adoption is still very early on and you actually are bold enough to compare E commerce for autos versus the rest of E commerce, the Amazon kind. You really think that we can do a lot more business E comm with cars?

[Ernie Garcia]

I do. I think, I think, you know, customers don't necessarily wake up, you know, and decide they want an E commerce experience or a physical experience. I think that they say, you know, I want a car and I want a fair price and I want a great experience and I want to believe that the car is high quality and I want to hear from my friends and family that, you know, they transacted with this business and the experience was great and so I can trust it. And I think that building an online business that is just fundamentally more efficient, that is fundamentally simpler because we are the finance company and the retailer and we're making all the decisions ourselves. And so all the accountability lies with us. It means that the experience can be fast and it can be fun and it can be fair. And I think customers love that. So we think it's very early on and we're going to keep working hard to make that truer all the time.

[Jim Cramer]

I want to go back over the word fun. I think people who have not used you don't realize that there's not a perilous moment in the process. What happens, I buy the car, I park it, I really like it and I just want to give it back. What happens?

[Ernie Garcia]

We'll take it back or we'll come get it. So you get a seven day return policy when you buy a car from us. I think our goal there is to make sure that you get a car that fits your life and that you can confidently shop and, and know that, hey, if I'm not getting a traditional test drive, at least I get 7 days to live with this car and you know, see if my kid's car seat fits in the back and if my golf clubs fit in the back and if the cup holder fits my huge coffee mug. You get to realize all those things that are really hard to figure out in a five minute test drive. So we think it's better for our customers and allows us to build a simpler business.

[Jim Cramer]

Well, let's leave it at that because I think people, I was one of those people. I couldn't believe it myself. That's why I like this. That's why I got behind the stock. They took the car right back. I'll never forget it. I want to thank Ernie Garcia. Go founder Jim and CEO of Carvana. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming. Congratulations. Great quarter.

[Ernie Garcia]

Hey, thank you Jim. You always been, you've always been there for us and obviously our potential. We appreciate it.

[Jim Cramer]

Absolutely. Netflix back after the break.

[CNBC News Anchor]

Coming up, what can FICO's latest quarter tell us about the health of the consumer and the economy? Kramer is checking in with the CEO next.

[Fidelity Representative]

Don't just ride the index, seek to outperform it with Felc. The Fidelity Enhanced Large CAP Core ETF. Unlike passive ETFs, FELC is run by a team of experts to adapt to market conditions and pursue upside potential wherever it's hiding. And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms just like any other ETF Discover fellow. The Fidelity Enhanced Large Cap Core ETF part of Fidelity's suite of active ETFs. Learn more at fidelity.com felc before investing in any exchange traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. Contact Fidelity for prospectus and offering circular or if available a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully. While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared to with passive ETFs. Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC Member NYSE, SIPC.

[CNBC News Anchor]

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[Ernie Garcia]

There's no time like now to start.

[Jim Cramer]

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[CNBC News Anchor]

Register [e-mail] Personal Brand.

[Jim Cramer]

What the heck just happened to FICO, the predictive analytics and data science company best known as keeper of the FICO credit score. A company that we've liked for a very long time. We love their business model. Historically this has been one of the best performing stocks in the past 20 years. But lately it's come under attack by the new director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency who's called FICO a monopoly. Just a couple of weeks ago the FHFA pushed through new rules so that lenders can use different credit score models to issue mortgages that are later sold to Fannie Mac and Freddie Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Now look, I was hoping fight go turn things around this earnings season but last night they reported and while the quarter results were terrific, most of the Commerce call unfortunately had to be devoted to the FHFA drama. Initially the stock roared in after hours trading. I thought that was right but then it rolled over and then finished down 6% today. That seemed wrong to me. Is this a buying opportunity or do we need to be worried? Maybe I'm missing something. Let's check in with Will Lancey is the CEO of fico. Get a better read in the quarter and what comes next. Bishop Lansing welcome back to Money. Thanks so much. So well this was a pretty impressive quarter frankly. 20% growth, 37% with most of the growth coming from B2B portion of your scores business, which I love. Tell us what happened in real life to this quarter because it was a darn good one. Especially given the fact that the housing market is not so hot.

[Will Lansing]

You know it's been a good quarter and it's been a good year and it's been a good few years. Our scores business has been performing double digit revenue and profit growth for many years now and this quarter is no different. And and so you know we're proud of it and and it is odd that our stock reacted the way it did today, but I don't think it had anything to do with the Quarter it obviously had more to do with people concern about, you know, the strength of our franchise going forward. So whenever you want to talk about that, I'd be happy to talk about.

[Jim Cramer]

Want to get update on the housing market where you thinks are in the guidance because some considered that what you did was you gave a guide to down for the current quarter, final quarter, your fiscal year. I want to clear that up whether that's the case or not.

[Will Lansing]

No, our guide is our guide. I mean I think first of all we're a lagging indicator and so you know, I don't think you look to FICO results to see what the future holds. The Bureau's are probably six weeks ahead of us but our guide, we, we only have work, we have 1/4 left in our fiscal and so our guide is pretty reasonable guess as to where we'll be.

[Jim Cramer]

Okay. Now what I think kept things down is there's a very bizarre tug of war between you and a fellow by the name of Bill Pulte, the FHFA director. That's been talked about on our air. But I'm going to clear the air of the air. Why isn't the FHA when they're trying to analyze products first analyzing FICO 10 to your new product that is going, that is obviously the gold standard and it's what anyone would use with common sense.

[Will Lansing]

That's absolutely right. Fico 10T is the best score in the industry today. It's the most predictive. It identifies and prevents the most credit defaults. It actually qualifies more borrowers. So FICO10T hands down and this was done, you know, by the FHFA and the GSEs, they did a long multi year evaluation of our score, the Vantage score, other scores and concluded that, you know, ours is the most predictive score. So absolutely when it comes to moving on from the current score, which is what we call Fico classic, Fico 10T is the obvious next step. But that's not exactly what's going on right now.

[Jim Cramer]

Right now the government is or Mr. Poll is using a model that you have that's good, not the new model, matching it against the new model of someone else, which I just think there are very few people would ever do apples to oranges in real life. I'm trying to get a handle on how it's possible that someone in the government doesn't recognize when there is an apples to oranges comparison which we would never allow in so called real life.

[Will Lansing]

That's absolutely right. So just the background is FICO Classic what we call FICO Classic has been used for the last 20 years. It's a very good score, it's highly optimized. All of the industry has models built on it. The, the, the regulators do their capital adequacy assessments based on it, the mortgage backed securities market prices based on it. So very good score. But when, when the FHFA undertook to think about revising and moving to a new generation of scores some years back, they looked at FICO 10T and they looked at Vantage 4. FICO 10T outperforms FICO Classic by quite a bit. As I said, 18% fewer credit defaults than FICO Classic. But Vantage only barely outperforms FICO Classic. So you're right, it is absolutely apples to oranges. If you look at Vantage vs Classic and if you look at Vantage vs Fico 10T, our latest and greatest score, we went hands down. We have a white paper to that effect and the FHFA has the data.

[Jim Cramer]

Yeah, I mean it's clear. I would think everyone wants, it's in everyone's interest in the system, particularly Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to have the fewest defaults. We know that when they suspended the reality of rigor of what you offered, we had the housing crisis. So why would anyone choose a system that may not, that may actually produce more defaults than one that would create, that would be able to shine a light on fewer defaults? I'm trying again. No, because look, I'm obviously flustered. I don't understand it. There's one system that produces a false positive and one system that produces very few of them. And I don't, I'm trying to understand why yours, which is the latter, isn't the preferred by the government. It's clearly preferred by the industry.

[Will Lansing]

It is clearly preferred by the industry. If you look at. Well, first of all, FICO score is used all over industry and we've been competing with Vantage for 15 years and we always win. We have over 90% market share in all these other markets that have nothing to do with the government. And then within the mortgage market, in the non conforming market where there's no government mandate, FICO is the clear industry standard and guess What? They're adopting FICO 10T. So we've done 313 billion in originations with FICO 10D in the nonconforming mortgage market. And then on the conforming side we're all still using FICO Classic and the director has said, okay, we'll now accept Vantage and FICO 10T is technically approved by the FHFA. And obviously it has to be because of the best score. And the data and the analysis proved it. But there, there seem not to be plans for implementing it on the same timeline advantage. And so that is an apples and oranges issue. And you're absolutely right. There's all kinds of safety and soundness concerns with doing what they're doing.

[Jim Cramer]

One thing I know that someone called you a monopolist. I mean, to me, monopolist means that you raise prices, you're able to screw everybody and everybody gets hurt. How much of a closing cost is fico?

[Will Lansing]

Oh, I'm glad you raised that. So we have been accused of raising our prices, and it's true we have. But they're still very, very small relative to what we offer. We charge $4.95 for a mortgage score out of $6,000 in closing costs. So it's not the cost of a FICO score. That's, that's creating problems for homeownership. But, you know, that's kind of where we are.

[Jim Cramer]

Okay, so just to go full circle, if someone sold the stock today because they're so afraid that you'll never be the Fico, the real good Fico, the new Fico 10T won't be used versus Vantage. What do we say to them? Don't you think the advantage score in the end is going to be compared apples to apples to apples? That they can't, that the government can't frustrate you forever?

[Will Lansing]

Well, no, that's absolutely right. First, I think that we're going to stay with FICO Classic for quite some time because all of the industry is built on it, and you can't just turn that off. I mean, we, we. FICO Classic has been through the downturn in 2008. All the models have been test, stress tested, you know, with FICO data through that time period. They've been tuned and optimized. And so it's a very good score and it works really well. And even departing from it in any way, shape or form is questionable. But if you were going to change, you would obviously want to adopt the latest and greatest best score, and that's 10D.

[Jim Cramer]

Okay. And then the other thing is, is that there might be, people will say, you know what? Mortgage rates are so high, you can't own fico. How much of a correlation is there really been between mortgage rates and the actual numbers of fico?

[Will Lansing]

Well, we've, we've performed really well as rates have gone up and as rates go down. We perform well kind of in all environments. That said, our volumes are likely to go up dramatically as rates come down. So I would say, you know, whatever, whatever you see today is going to look a lot brighter as rates come down. We'll do a lot more volume. We're probably 40% off the peak in terms of volume.

[Jim Cramer]

Well, all right, look, I think we covered a lot of ground. I did. Obviously I was flustered myself, I admit that, because I can't really believe that our government could be as unfair as given the fact that we have a system that every time we've deviated from has caused tremendous havoc in this country. And we can't have that happen. I want to thank Will Lansing, president and CEO of fico, who understands this better than anyone and does not want to have a repeat of the housing crisis. Thanks, Jim, for to be with you. Absolutely. Back here.

[CNBC News Anchor]

Coming up, could this mining name be a hidden gem? Kramer's talking to the top brass of Agnico Eagle after earnings to dig into the numbers next.

[Jim Cramer]

The price of gold has been an incredible run this year, but some of the gold miners have done even better. Take Agnico Eagle mines, my favorite. The Canadian company is one of the best operators in space, maybe the best. Here's a stock that's up almost 58% for the year going into its earnings report last night. So expectations, I'd say pretty sky high. But Agniko yield still delivered a terrific top and bottom line beat with a stunning level of free cash flow generation. If the stock hadn't been up already so much, I think it would have just skyrocketed. So it finished at 0.8% up. And what do we do now? Let's dig in deeper with Al. Judy. I'm sorry, Marl. Judy, he's The President and CEO of Agrico Eagle, Mr. Al Jr. Welcome back to Bit Money. Great to see you, Jim.

[Mark Judy]

It's always a pleasure to see you again.

[Jim Cramer]

Okay, so Mark, tell me something. How are you able to keep your costs at a time when there's tremendous inflation worldwide? How are you able to keep your total cash costs literally unchanged year over year?

[Mark Judy]

Well, you know, that's a great question and it's exactly the right question because, Jim, when the gold price goes up, our owners want all of that leverage. And so the message we've really been pushing home externally but also internally is, look, the only reason people buy our stock is they want the full upside to gold. And the way you give that to them is to control the costs. And so we've controlled costs by sticking to our mine plan. Having really good people in regions where we've been operating for 60 years. I think, you know, we produce more gold in Canada in the next eight companies combined. We have a huge competitive advantage. We have half the turnover. We know all the suppliers. Some of these suppliers, we helped their grandfathers start the business 50 years ago. So there's a lot to it. But you're asking the right question.

[Jim Cramer]

All right. So there are things that I don't see with any other gold miner and have it in the 20 years I've had this job, record free cash flow, huge cash position, long term debt going down. You look like a company. Yeah.

[Mark Judy]

You know Shawn Boyd, who I know. You know my boss.

[Jim Cramer]

Yeah.

[Mark Judy]

And you know, he says look, we're, we're, we're trying to run a high quality company that happens to be in the gold space. And Jim, you know, we've been around for 68 years and in the last sort of 15 months we've pretty much paid off all the debt that we've accumulated in 68 years.

[Jim Cramer]

Are you ready business? Are you ready to take on something big, something new? Are there some people out there not as good operators as you where it's time to, time to make a bid for them?

[Mark Judy]

Well, we've got, we've got honestly the best pipeline we've ever had. We've got, you know, I could go through them, but expanding mines we already have. It could be somewhere between 1.3 and 1.5 million ounces a year and have expansion on those mines. So we've got a lot going on internally. You know, we're always looking at opportunities but we've always been adding value through the drill bit and through brownfield. Really more than, than M and A.

[Jim Cramer]

So what are we doing with our copper that we get as a byproduct until, until the president changes mine? I was thinking when I talked to you that maybe copper something that you make hay for. But it just seems the lower money you're making in gold, I don't even know whether it's worth processing. But I guess you still do, right?

[Mark Judy]

Well, you know, copper is a crop. Copper is a great metal. There's a big future for copper just like there is for gold. You know, we have some exposure to copper. We're happy with our exposure to copper and I mean, you know better than anyone how volatile it's been over the last few weeks. But we still like it and we still think it has a great.

[Jim Cramer]

Let me posit something I'M actually just reading a book called the Causes right now by computer. It's so great. There are so many areas in America where they had to close down because gold was at 800 and gold was at 700. Can't we revisit some of these tremendous mines in Jackson, in Arizona? Now that we have a president that is a little more open to hiring people and drilling, isn't it time to go back to some of these fields that we close because. Because gold was at 800 and the cost of oil was too great and the cost of the machines was too great and visit and maybe even have a renaissance in this country.

[Mark Judy]

100%. Look, you're exactly right. Let me give you two simple examples. You know, we have some. Some great mines in Canada. So if you take a look at our Malartic mine, which we think we can get to a million ounces a year. That's our vision. There's an ore body that we've discovered. It's in excess of 25 million ounces. It's called the East Gouldy. The reason, Jim, it's called East Goldie because the Goldie brothers found it in 1923. So these ore bodies are there. And a lot of the. A lot of my peers and ourselves are doing quite well mining ore bodies that we've known about for a long time. And they certainly exist in the United States. You're absolutely right.

[Jim Cramer]

Well, look, this is an amazing time for you, if you have the money. Most of the other guys are still busy trying to figure out how to get out of contracts in countries that you and I may not even want to visit. And you're in a country that I like very much. I mean, our president may not like it, but I think I sure do. Anyway, that's Amar Al Jundi. He's the president CEO of the best gold mine in the world, which is Agnico Eagle Mines. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Always a pleasure, man. But he's back into the break.

[CNBC News Anchor]

Coming up, lightning doesn't just strike twice in Creamerica.

[Jim Cramer]

Booyah. Jimmy, Chill. Booyah. Booyah. Booyah. Thanks for taking my call.

[CNBC News Anchor]

It strikes every day. Kramer is back in a flash with your questions. Next.

[Jim Cramer]

It is time. It's time for the lightning round. Coming back. Raptor calls Run over. Standing in the song said bye, bye, bye. Tell my steppers graphics Bye. You plan to sell. And then the lightning round is over. Are you ready, Ski dad or lightning round? Cruiser with Todd in California. Todd, Todd speaking to you. I got a question about Corweave Yeah, sure. I got a question about Corey. I gotta take Corvette up 11 today. Cory was 11. I think Cor Weave is good. Remember, Nvidia is better than Corweb. I think Corweb might even tell you that. Let's go to Chris and Galvoya. Chris, Jimmy, chill. This is. Yo, chief, what's shaking? All right, sunshine. Heavy name is Chris in California. I was Chris in Santa Fe, New Mexico. And Jim, 20 years ago this month, I picked you up at the Bishop's Lodge in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and we hosted a book signing for you.

[Ernie Garcia]

That new book, Real Money.

[Jim Cramer]

Jim. My stock, I remember that. It was with. It was with Gene Hackman. We had a Gene Hackman. That was one of the greatest times ever. All right, what's the stock?

[Ernie Garcia]

Absolutely Lambstock.

[Jim Cramer]

And I miss Gina Lambert Shirts had a great quarter. Don't believe anything else. I mean, I know the stock's rolling over because the charts bad. I really liked it. I thought that Tim Marcher did a terrific job. Let it come in and then do some buying. And thank you for reminding me of one of the greatest times of my life. Let's go to Brandon in Virginia. Brandon. Hey, big dog. Thanks for the opportunity to ask you about bitmind Immersion Technology. Bmnr. All right, listen to me, sunshine. We don't play that game. If you want to own that kind of of stuff, just go buy some Bitcoin. Oh, I buy some Ethereum. I own them both. They're fine. Let's go to Mark in California.

[Fidelity Representative]

Mark.

[Jim Cramer]

Oh, hello, Jim. Hey, how are you? I'm doing good. How about you? I'm good, thank you. Booyah. Booyah. Yeah, but the triple booyah right back at you. All right, so I was wondering, what.

[CNBC News Anchor]

Are your thoughts on Core Scientific?

[Jim Cramer]

Well, I think Core Scientific's kind of happened already. You know, we. There's nothing there to be able to do. I mean, we're done with that one. I do think that I did like it very much, though. I like a. Let's go to Jonathan in New Hampshire. Jonathan. Hey, Jim. How are you doing? I'm doing. I'm doing well. How about you? I'm good. I'm very excited to talk to you again. Last time we talked about Lincoln Tech stock, L, I, N c with a 90% job placement, new campuses going up. Why do you think Lincoln Tech will sell and continue to grow at the stock? Lincoln? Oh, it's pretty expensive stock. I like. I like the concept, but it's up 44%. We got to wait. That can come in. Let's go to Brooks in Colorado. Brooks, Booyah. Jim, my son Brooks. Brooks has a question for you. Yeah, let me hear from him. Hey mister. I love watching the show. I bought it stock in the 20s. It's gone in a pretty good low right up into the 50s. I just wanted to know your thoughts on symbotics. Well, the kid stumped me. What can I say? I know it's a technology coming that ain't enough. I'm not gonna get that guy's too good for this. Give him a cuff answer. I'm coming back. I'm looking at Ben Stoder right now. My official research team and he and I are gonna crack down for that young man. Cause he deserves better than they're just like eh, it's fine. Let's go to Ray in California. Ray, Booyah. Excellent. One of the greatest days of my life. What can I say? What's up? Oh my goodness. Just want to thank you for everything you do for the little guy. Just like us, you know. Thank you, man. I fight for you every day because nobody else is, believe me. What are we doing here? Hey, AKA the real market ripper here. Ticker symbol W L, F. What are your thoughts on Terra? Wolf, thanks so much again. I mean I. I'm a real deal guy. I like the bitcoin. I wish I could feel it. I like gold even more, but that's a whole nother kettle of gold. All right. And that, ladies and gentlemen, conclusion of the Lightning Round.

[CNBC News Anchor]

The Lightning Round is sponsored by Charles Schwab. Coming up, it's a tale of two economies. Kramer's ticking down the list of companies that illustrate the dichotomy of the this market moment. Next.

[Jim Cramer]

We have two economies these days. There's the incredibly strong enterprise economy led by the data center. And the need for more computing power as well as giant infrastructure spending left over from the previous administration. And then we have a second the consumer economy economy, where every day we begin to learn something disturbing, something that screams rate cut. Rate cut. Sure, we had the amazing numbers this morning from last night from Microsoft and better then we just after the close, we got terrific numbers from Apple. Look, Amazon was good there, no slouches. But what do you make of the shocking decline in a company like Align Technology, that's the maker of Invisalign clear aligners. It's the gold standard, the one that dentists love to recommend, but it misses numbers badly and its stock collapsed down nearly 37%. One session. Let me tell you what CEO Joe Hogan, who Again, is no slouch gave as his excuse for the weakness in his conference call. Listen to this quote. In the face of a challenging and uncertain macroeconomic backdrop characterized by global tariff volatility, ongoing inflation, elevated interest rates and unstable of consumer confidence, we're navigating with a clear focus to control what we can, end quote. Then he says, quote, significant headwinds across the consumer discretionary spend landscape has come to hurt these guys. I say, wait, wait a second, wait a second. We're talking about clear braces here. We're talking about your teeth. To me, that's not really that much of a discretionary item. At least not in America, maybe in Britain. But most Americans get the teeth straight. Or at least they did. I mean, apparently now it's becoming discretionary spending. People must really be strapped because I believe Hogan, I've had him on the show a bunch of times. Or what about Shake Shack? Terrific company with a stock that took a real head or take down 14%. As I go over the conference call, I came across this fly in the ointment. Quote, the majority of the commodity situation is in beef. And obviously we sell a lot of beef. Boom. Commodity situation being now, this isn't the first restaurant that's been hit by rising beef costs, but it's become a real worry among everybody that is in that sells a steak, including a charitable trust in Texas Roadhouse. But it sure doesn't control the price of beef, which is escalating beyond what many people in this country can afford. Again, rate cut doesn't do anything to increase the herd. But just be aware, people aren't able to afford steak. How about Lowe's? Yes, the. The home improvement store. This morning, Citi lowered its price target for the home improvement chain, saying that there's continued weakness in the do it yourself part of the store, which is a lot of the store. When we talk about Lowe's, that explains the weakness in Stanley Black and Deckard. Also could explain the tough sledding for Whirlpool. And who's winning on the consumer side. Well, you heard him earlier was Carvana used cars, not tariffs. Seemed as good as new. Only a bargain. Look, it's a huge bargain. The pricing is just so compelling that it strikes a real chord with the consumer. Sure, Carvana is better at selling cars than anyone, but in the end, this is a used car salesman. And we would now live in a world where there's no stigma to buy. You can use cars. Very good for Carvana. But again, not a sign of a thriving consumer oh, and the pricey consumer package. Good stocks. Wow. They just standard pressure. Proctor and gamble just under 170 at beginning June. Now it's 150. PepsiCo seem to be breaking away from the group and zoom from 135 to 4,145 it reported. Don't look now that back to under 138 down $5. The COVID price increases at last are being rebelled against. I say roll them back. All right. Why does all this matter? Because Fed chief Jay Powell spoke like a hardliner yesterday. I think he's looking at the industrial economy. He's looking at tariffs. He's looking at the wrong prices maybe because I got to tell you what I'm starting to see. It is worrisome. I have been with Powell all the way because the economy's been very strong and employment's great. But while I'm listening to these companies during this earnings season, I am getting concerned that the consumer within the last three months does need some relief. Maybe we can keep waiting for rate cut when we see any spike in unemployment or decline in wages like we might do tomorrow. Well, the Fed's got to make a move. I like to say this always bull markets on my promise just for you right here on Mad Money. I'm sure. Kramer see you tomorrow.

[Fidelity Representative]

All opinions expressed by Jim Cramer on this podcast are solely Kramer's opinions and do not reflect the opinions of cnbc, NBC Universal, or their parent company or affiliates, and may have been previously disseminated by Kramer on television, radio, Internet or another medium. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Jim Cramer as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. Kramer's opinions are based upon information he considers reliable, but neither CNBC nor its affiliates and or subsidiaries warrant its completeness or accuracy, and it should not be relied upon as such. To view the full Mad Money disclaimer, please visit cnbc.com madmoneydisclaimer com.

[Jim Cramer]

Trading at Schwab is now powered by Ameritrade, giving you even more specialized support than ever before, like access to the trade Desk, our team of passionate traders ready to tackle anything from the most complex trading questions to a simple strategy. Gut check. Need assistance? No problem. Get 24. 7 professional answers and live help and access support by phone, email and in platform chat. That's how Schwab is here for you to help you trade brilliantly. Learn [e-mail] trading.