Main Justice | "A 'Break Glass' Moment"

Date: September 23, 2025
Hosts: Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord

Episode Overview

In this episode of Main Justice, Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord dissect a tumultuous week inside Trump’s Department of Justice (DOJ). As criminal cases against Trump wind down and his new administration consolidates power, the hosts detail unprecedented assaults on the rule of law—including the President’s direct intervention in DOJ prosecutions, targeted actions against political enemies, retaliatory measures against the media, and the brazen attempt to label “antifa” as a domestic terrorist organization. Amid these troubling signs, they search for glimmers of institutional resistance and discuss recent legal developments designed to safeguard democratic norms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Directives to the DOJ and the Ouster of a U.S. Attorney

• Trump’s social media directive: The President openly instructed Attorney General Pam Bondi to take action against political adversaries (Letitia James, James Comey, Adam Schiff) via a Truth Social post, which read as a direct order.
  • Mary McCord: “We hit a new low this weekend with the President directly ordering his attorney General to take action against political enemies.” [02:05]
• Forcing out a Trump-appointed U.S. Attorney: The Eastern District of Virginia’s U.S. Attorney, respected and considered loyal, was reportedly pressured to resign (later characterized by Trump as a firing) after finding insufficient evidence to indict Trump’s perceived enemies—Letitia James and James Comey.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “That U.S. attorney is a Trump appointee ... highly respected ... He was like, there's not enough evidence.” [07:06]
• Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche’s pushback: Bondi and Blanche (DOJ officials) reportedly tried to defend the U.S. Attorney, invoking the notion that facts and legal standards—not presidential wishes—must guide prosecutions.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “There’s a line... They were trained as prosecutors, as professionals. They knew ... there has to be a good faith basis to do this.” [09:07]
• Replacement with an inexperienced lawyer: The new interim U.S. Attorney, Lindsay Halligan, has no prosecutorial or criminal law experience.
  • Mary McCord: “Goose egg. Goose egg. Experience.” [12:18]
• Selective prosecution risks: Weissmann outlined how the President’s statements would fuel defenses such as selective prosecution and due process violations if cases proceeded.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “This tweet is going to be exhibit A to all sorts of motions, including selective prosecution to the judge.” [13:54]

Notable Quotes:

• Mary McCord: “The President thinks they're guilty. In fact, you can't say he's guilty before a grand jury or a jury.” [15:26]
• Andrew Weissmann: “The law is the prosecutor's opinion is not evidence. And not only is it not evidence, it cannot be expressed.” [15:42]

2. Weaponizing Legal Actions Against the Media

• $15 Billion Defamation Lawsuit against the New York Times: Trump filed a sprawling, hyper-partisan defamation suit, which a federal judge dismissed within four days for failing basic legal standards.
  • Mary McCord: “Even under the most generous and lenient application of Rule 8, the complaint is decidedly improper and impermissible.” [29:18]
  • The judge critiqued the 85-page complaint for being bombastic, not factual, packed with grievances and not legal claims.
• Chilling effect on reporters: Recent firings and lawsuits signal attempts to threaten and suppress negative media coverage.
  • Mary McCord: “That's obviously an attempt to pressure media not to report negatively about Donald Trump.” [04:14]
• Jimmy Kimmel controversy: Kimmel was briefly pulled off-air by Disney/ABC after anti-Trump skits; he was reinstated after public backlash.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “...from a ratings perspective, Jimmy Kimmel has to be like, hey, bring it on.” [05:16]
• FCC threat: The FCC chair’s ominous suggestion to ABC—“we can do this the easy way or the hard way”—was called out as a First Amendment violation.
  • Mary McCord: “We're talking about the government which does have to comply with the First Amendment, discriminating based on viewpoint.” [24:17]
  • Weissmann cites the Murthy Supreme Court case as a parallel, underscoring the danger of government retaliation against media companies for editorial decisions. [24:17]

Notable Quotes:

• Andrew Weissmann: “This is the kind of thing that should unite the left and right.” [26:31]
• Mary McCord: “I have never seen a judge ... dismiss this case [NYT lawsuit] without prejudice ... after only four days.” [27:35]

3. Antifa Designation: The "Domestic Terrorist Organization" Power Grab

• Meaningless designation: Trump issued an executive order labeling antifa a “domestic terrorist organization,” a move with no legal basis or statutory authority.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “Calling antifa a domestic terrorist organization is not a thing, it is not a law.” [04:02]
  • Mary McCord (softball Q&A): “The answer is no, it is not a thing.” [32:55]
• First Amendment implications: U.S. law, built on Supreme Court precedent (Keith, Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project), allows designation of foreign terrorist organizations only; domestic groups cannot be criminalized for ideology or association due to constitutional rights.
  • Mary McCord: “There is no statutory scheme ... for designating a domestic terrorist organization.” [33:00]
  • “Foreign organizations don’t have First Amendment rights ... That is a critical difference here.” [34:47]
• Irony: Much of Trump’s language about antifa’s violence easily applies to groups like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers after January 6—but is clearly not wielded against them.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “It took what we in New York call chutzpah to write this.” [39:28]

Notable Quotes:

• Mary McCord: “To designate a domestic organization ... would probably require that organization to say we have one mission and one mission only, and that is to commit acts of terrorism...” [36:26]
• Andrew Weissmann: “The Supreme Court’s concern ... is that the existing government will use that to target political adversaries. That was explicitly called out by the Supreme Court.” [37:44]

4. Selective (Non-)Enforcement: The Tom Homan Bribery Scandal

• Quashed investigation: Breaking reports (Lennig & Delaney, MSNBC) revealed former ICE official Tom Homan was caught accepting $50,000 in cash from undercover FBI agents promising to help secure contracts if given high office. The Biden-era DOJ began the case, but the new administration swiftly shut it down and denied wrongdoing.
  • Mary McCord: “He was president ... of a private consulting business that said it could help companies in border security ... This was a down payment ... once Tom Homan got this public job.” [42:11]
• Lack of standard federal bribery statute: Federal bribery typically covers current or already officially nominated public officials. The evidence points to classical signs of corruption—a bag of cash for promised future action—but the investigation was closed before any formal charges.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “You would never kill an investigation at this stage where somebody is clearly about to be selected ... taking a bag of cash ... which, by the way, is not how you take legitimate money.” [45:45]
• Absence of accountability: The White House characterized the case as ‘selective prosecution’ but offered no clean denial, and no exculpatory evidence was released.
  • Mary McCord: “That’s not the time you would squash it ... if you’ve got somebody who is not yet a public official ... you’d continue this investigation, see whether he does become a public official, and then go back at it.” [48:48]

Notable Quotes:

• Andrew Weissmann: “For your friends, everything; for your enemies, nothing.” [46:58]
• Mary McCord: “Hypocrisy is dead. Okay, we'll come back after the break.” [40:28]

5. Judicial Pushback: Unaccompanied Minors and Rule-of-Law Victories

• Judge Tim Kelly’s ruling on child deportations: In a D.C. court, a Trump administration plan to deport unaccompanied Guatemalan minors in the dead of night—allegedly to “reunify them with their parents”—was halted due to lack of parental consent and violations of child protection laws.
  • Mary McCord (quoting the judge): “That explanation crumbled like a house of cards about a week later. There is no evidence before the court that the parents ... sought their return.” [52:02]
• Whistleblowers and factual reversals: Internal government whistleblowers reported that many of the deported minors faced dire risks and that the administration’s justifications were false. The judge emphasized adherence to the Trafficking Victims Protection Act.
  • Mary McCord: “He’s like, chutzpah. Chutzpah, yeah, I’m dubious about that.” [53:34]
• Institutions holding the line: The court’s fact-driven decision stands in stark contrast to the White House’s disregard for facts. Weissmann invokes recent (albeit limited) signs of resistance at DOJ, among some Republican lawyers, and in the judiciary.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “We have seen a floor in certain ways ... from Disney, from Pam Bondi, from Mr. Seibert, from Mr. Blanche, and certainly from the judges.” [56:06]

Notable Quotes:

• Mary McCord (reading Judge Kelly): “But that explanation crumbled like a house of cards ... There is no evidence before the court that the parents of these children sought their return.” [52:02]
• Andrew Weissmann: “Facts matter when you're in court. They seem to not matter when you're at the White House.” [55:36]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Opening & Episode Theme: 01:23–02:05
• Trump orders DOJ action, U.S. Attorney ouster: 02:05–13:54
• Legal framework for indictments, DOJ standards: 07:06–11:31
• Replacement with inexperience, Trump’s Truth Social post: 12:02–13:54
• Selective prosecution, legal evidence standards: 13:54–17:54
• Statute of limitations on Comey probe: 17:01–18:21
• Targeting the media, Jimmy Kimmel, FCC threats: 21:08–26:31
• NYT $15B lawsuit and scathing judicial dismissal: 27:35–32:09
• Antifa designation, legal context, and First Amendment: 32:18–39:28
• Tom Homan bribery investigation quash: 42:11–48:48
• Judge Kelly’s ruling on child deportations: 49:25–55:36

Memorable Quotes

• On rule of law standards:
  • Andrew Weissmann: “There’s a line ... They knew with that professional training that there has to be a good faith basis to do this.” [09:07]
• On government retaliation:
  • Andrew Weissmann: “All those conservative Supreme Court jurists ... who were vociferous saying this crossed the line [in the Murthy case] ... What are you going to do with this? Because this ... makes that look like child’s play.” [24:17]
• On antifa “designation”:
  • Mary McCord: “There is no statutory scheme ... for designating a domestic terrorist organization.” [33:00]
• On institutional resistance:
  • Andrew Weissmann: “Facts matter when you're in court. They seem to not matter when you're at the White House.” [55:36]
• On hypocrisy and selective justice:
  • Andrew Weissmann: “For your friends, everything; for your enemies, nothing.” [46:58]

Final Thoughts

Throughout a week rife with constitutional and legal red flags, Mary and Andrew call this a “break glass” moment—demanding vigilance to protect the rule of law. Yet, the episode also notes unexpected bright spots: isolated institutional resistance at DOJ and in federal courts, public pushback against media retaliation, and a smattering of legal professionals still upholding their oaths. The coming weeks, they suggest, will prove whether these “wisps of hope” expand—or collapse under the weight of lawlessness at the highest levels.

Summary by Main Justice | September 23, 2025