Main Justice Podcast Episode Summary Episode Title: Boggles the Mind
Release Date: January 28, 2025
Hosts: Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord
Produced by: MSNBC

Introduction

In the episode titled "Boggles the Mind," hosts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord delve into critical developments within the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the ramifications of a recent executive order targeting birthright citizenship. Drawing from their extensive legal backgrounds, they analyze the implications of these actions on U.S. law, the Constitution, and democratic institutions.

Executive Order on Birthright Citizenship

Understanding Birthright Citizenship

Birthright citizenship is a legal principle grounded in the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which grants citizenship to all individuals born on U.S. soil. This principle, known as jus soli or "right of the soil," was established to overturn the contentious Dred Scott decision, ensuring that all persons born in the United States are recognized as citizens regardless of their parents' status.

The Trump Administration's Executive Order

The discussion centers around an executive order issued by former President Donald Trump, aiming to revoke birthright citizenship for children born to certain immigrants. The order specifies two categories:

1. Undocumented Mothers: If the mother is undocumented and the father is neither a U.S. citizen nor a legal permanent resident, the child does not receive U.S. citizenship.
2. Lawfully Present Mothers: If the mother is lawfully present on a temporary basis (e.g., holding a visa) and the father is not a U.S. citizen or legal permanent resident, the child is denied citizenship.

Mary McCord elaborates on the complexities and potential equal protection violations arising from these provisions, especially concerning cases where the father is deceased or unknown.

Constitutional Challenges and Litigation

The executive order immediately faced legal challenges, leading to multiple lawsuits filed by states and advocacy groups. Mary McCord highlights a significant case brought forth by CASA and the Asylum Seeker Advocacy Program (ASAP) on behalf of five pregnant mothers under temporary protected status (TPS).

Notable Quote:

"The 14th Amendment says explicitly that all persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States."
— Mary McCord [19:30]

Andrew Weissmann underscores the constitutional inviability of the executive order, emphasizing that altering birthright citizenship would require a constitutional amendment.

Notable Quote:

"The dismissal of this case cannot undo the rampage that left multiple people dead, injured more than 140 people, and inflicted millions of dollars in damage."
— Judge Chutkan [07:18]

Court Rulings and Government Response

Judges responding to the executive order have largely deemed it unconstitutional. For instance, the Washington state judge referred to the order as "blatantly unconstitutional" and granted a temporary restraining order to halt its enforcement.

Notable Quote:

"I have difficulty understanding how a member of the bar could state unequivocally that this is a constitutional order. It just boggles my mind."
— Andrew Weissman [29:00]

The Trump administration's legal defense posits that individuals subject to other jurisdictions (e.g., dual citizens) are not fully under U.S. jurisdiction, a stance met with skepticism by the hosts.

Undermining DOJ Independence

Purges and Policy Shifts

Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord express deep concern over recent actions within the DOJ that threaten its independence. These actions include:

• Firing of Inspectors General: At least 17 Inspectors General have been removed, violating the required 30-day notice period.
• Hiring Freezes and Purges: Implementation of hiring freezes and removal of probationary employees and participants in the Honors Program, which recruits top law graduates.
• Reassignment of Senior Executives: Movement of senior executive service members from their areas of expertise, weakening the department's operational capabilities.

Notable Quote:

"It's so counterproductive to the mission of the administration."
— Andrew Weissmann [45:15]

Impact on National Security and Policy Implementation

The removal of seasoned professionals, especially in national security, undermines the DOJ’s ability to effectively protect the nation. Mary McCord provides examples of key figures in counterterrorism and counterintelligence being displaced, eroding institutional memory and disrupting critical operations.

Notable Quote:

"You need that regardless of whether it's national security, health, whatever it is. And that's what really, really worries me."
— Mary McCord [49:43]

Historical Comparisons

The hosts draw parallels to previous administrations, notably referencing the Bush 2 era's controversial removal of U.S. Attorneys, highlighting the recurring threats to DOJ's impartiality and effectiveness.

Confirmation Hearings and Nominee Scrutiny

FBI Director Nomination: Keshe Patel

Andrew Weissmann discusses the contentious nomination of Keshe Patel for FBI Director. Concerns revolve around Patel's inconsistent statements and qualifications, as highlighted in a recent New York Times article by reporter Charlie Savage.

Notable Quote:

"There's a Supreme Court case directly on point with respect to certain categories that are covered where those people have rights that are being ignored."
— Andrew Weissmann [36:56]

DNI Nomination: Tulsi Gabbard

The nomination of Tulsi Gabbard for Director of National Intelligence is scrutinized, with the hosts questioning her expertise and suitability for overseeing the intelligence community.

Broader DOJ Policy Concerns

Sanctuary Cities and Civil Rights

Mary McCord outlines the administration's intensified focus on mass deportation, eliminating sanctuary city protections, and halting the Civil Rights Division's initiatives to reform policing practices. These measures signify a broader crackdown on immigration and civil liberties, raising alarms about future DOJ policies.

Conclusion

The "Boggles the Mind" episode of Main Justice presents a comprehensive analysis of alarming trends within the DOJ and executive actions challenging foundational constitutional principles. Hosts Weissmann and McCord articulate the profound implications these developments hold for the rule of law, democratic integrity, and national security, urging vigilant scrutiny and legal resistance.

Notable Quotes

• Mary McCord [19:30]:
  "The 14th Amendment says explicitly that all persons born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens of the United States."

• Andrew Weissmann [29:00]:
  "I have difficulty understanding how a member of the bar could state unequivocally that this is a constitutional order. It just boggles my mind."

• Andrew Weissmann [45:15]:
  "It's so counterproductive to the mission of the administration."

• Mary McCord [49:43]:
  "You need that regardless of whether it's national security, health, whatever it is. And that's what really, really worries me."

Additional Information

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