Main Justice — "Jack Smith Live" (January 23, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this special episode of Main Justice, hosts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord provide immediate analysis and personal reactions to the live public testimony of Special Counsel Jack Smith before Congress. The discussion contextualizes Smith’s appearance within the broader political and legal climate: Trump’s criminal cases are winding down as he assumes office, and Smith’s testimony is seen as a flashpoint for the current state of the rule of law in the United States. The hosts, both seasoned DOJ veterans, break down the dynamics of the hearing, highlight Smith’s notable statements, and reflect on the seriousness of recent attacks on public servants and democratic institutions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Contrast Between Private and Public Hearings

• Format Differences: The public hearing was much more politically charged compared to Smith's earlier private deposition.
• Political Posturing: Representatives frequently used their five-minute slots for speeches rather than actual questioning.
  • Mary McCord:

    "There was a lot of the representatives using this opportunity to make their own political statements and sometimes really not hardly giving Jack Smith a chance to answer at all." (03:26)

• Democratic vs. Republican Tactics:
  • Republicans tended to cut Smith off and not allow substantive answers.
  • Democrats tried to give Smith space to respond, allowing audiences to better assess his credibility.

2. Jack Smith’s Central Message: The Rule of Law

• Nonpartisan Commitment: Smith emphasized that his actions were dictated by evidence, not politics, and would have been the same regardless of the target’s party.
  • Mary McCord:

    "He would have done the same thing, regardless of whether the target was a Republican or a Democrat." (05:32)

• Opening Statement Excerpt: Smith defended his staff, honored their sacrifices, and highlighted the fragility of the rule of law.
• Notable Quote (Read by Andrew Weissmann):

  "Adherence to the rule of law is not a partisan concept or endeavor. After nearly 30 years of public service, including in international settings, I have seen how the rule of law can erode. My fear is that we have seen the rule of law function in this country for so long that many of us have come to take it for granted. ... It requires dedicated service on behalf of others, especially when that service is difficult and comes with costs. Our willingness to pay those costs is what tests and defines our commitment to the rule of law and to this wonderful country." (07:05–08:20)

3. Attacks Against Smith and His Team

• Public Vilification and Threats: Smith made a point to defend the public servants on his team, acknowledging they faced unemployment, public smears, and threats to themselves and their families.
  • Mary McCord:

    "These people are the best of public servants in our country, owes them a debt of gratitude." (06:07)

• Trump's Social Media Post: During the hearing, Trump posted on Truth Social attacking Smith, calling him “deranged” and implicitly encouraging the DOJ to take action against him.
  • Mary McCord summarized Trump’s words:

    "Jack Smith is a deranged animal who shouldn't be allowed to practice law... Hopefully the attorney general is looking at what he's done, including... crooked and corrupt witnesses... A big price should be paid by them for what they've put our country through." (11:02)

• Direct Consequences: Smith told Congress he believed prosecution against him was likely because the President had "ordered them to." (12:00)

4. Focus on Distractions and “Shiny Objects”

• Republican Questioning: Republicans spent significant time questioning Smith on issues tangential to the case, such as obtaining toll records of members of Congress.
  • Andrew Weissmann:

    "They basically were doing what happens in criminal cases that you and I try, where defense lawyers rightly try and distract a jury." (09:47)

• Clarification of Toll Records: Mary clarified that toll records do not include content, only metadata (number dialed, number received, duration).

5. The Mar-a-Lago Report and Judicial Roadblocks

• Ongoing Secrecy: Smith could not discuss the second part of his report regarding Mar-a-Lago due to ongoing court orders.
• Procedural Updates: Judge Cannon has ordered the report unsealed in February, but Trump filed a motion to keep it sealed longer. (13:13)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the political theater of the hearing:

  "[In private], the questions did tend to be... ask Jack Smith a question, let him answer. [Today],... the representative just saying what they thought... not hardly giving Jack Smith a chance to answer at all."
  — Mary McCord (02:40–03:56)

• On Smith’s nonpartisan approach:

  "For him, there's a challenge because he is not just trying to come across as, but actually is basically a nonpartisan or was certainly in his role as special counsel."
  — Mary McCord (04:42)

• Jack Smith’s message on the rule of law:

  “Adherence to the rule of law is not a partisan concept or endeavor... Our willingness to pay those costs is what tests and defines our commitment to the rule of law and to this wonderful country.”
  — Quoted by Andrew Weissmann (07:05–08:20)

• On Trump's attack and its implications:

  “Jack Smith is a deranged animal who shouldn't be allowed to practice law... Hopefully the attorney general is looking at what he's done... A big price should be paid by them for what they've put our country through.”
  — Paraphrased by Mary McCord (11:02)

• Smith on likely prosecution:

  "When Jack Smith was asked at some point whether he believes that he... is likely to be prosecuted or the Department of Justice is going to try to prosecute him, he said yes, because the president had ordered them to."
  — Mary McCord (12:08)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Differences Between Depositions & Hearing — 02:40–03:56
• Smith’s Commitment to Rule of Law — 04:42–06:35
• Opening Statement on Rule of Law & Team Defense — 06:35–08:20
• Republican Distraction Tactics — 09:21–10:09
• Clarification On Toll Records — 10:09–10:35
• Trump’s Post & Direct Threats — 11:02–12:08
• Discussion of Mar-a-Lago Report — 13:13–13:22
• Closing Recommendations — 13:22–14:09

Tone & Language

The episode maintains a serious, analytical tone grounded in the lived experience and professional perspective of two former top DOJ officials. Both express frustration with political gamesmanship and concern for the safety of public servants, while emphasizing the ongoing importance of upholding the rule of law regardless of political winds.

Final Thoughts

• The hosts urge listeners to judge Smith’s testimony for themselves, particularly the early segments where Smith is able to speak at length.
• This episode is a clear-eyed reminder of the stakes of DOJ independence and the current threats faced by legal professionals and democratic norms.

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