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Listen to "Trumpland with Alex Wagner: Hold the Line"
00:32:53
As a bonus for listeners, we’re sharing this week's episode from "Trumpland with Alex Wagner" on attorneys general and their legal battles against Trump's agenda.
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- [00:00]
Alex Wagner
Listen, as Silenia tells us why she.
- [00:02]
Letitia James
Chose to vaccinate her daughter, I definitely.
- [00:05]
Chris Mays
Felt like the pros far outweighed the cons. The diseases that I am protecting my child against, they're still here. And at the end of the day, it's my job as a mother to keep my child safe.
- [00:22]
Alex Wagner
Talk to your child's doctor and learn more@yvaccines.com brought to you by Merck the.
- [00:29]
Kwame Raoul
Last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USAA auto insurance.
- [00:36]
Alex Wagner
You'Ll get great service that is easy.
- [00:37]
Kwame Raoul
And reliable, all at the touch of a button. Get a quote today, restrictions apply.
- [00:44]
Letitia James
Hey main justice listeners, it's Mary here. Andrew and I wanted to share an episode from one of our colleagues MSNBC podcast Trumpland with Alex Wagner. Alex has been reporting on the attorneys general who are standing up to President Trump, Elon Musk and Doge and the legal strategies they're employing to do so. We thought this week's episode might be particularly interesting because it complements the episode that Andrew and I just released. It's all about the importance of the rule of law. Take a listen and be sure to follow Trumpland with Alex Wagner wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:24]
Chris Mays
So we just landed in Phoenix, where tonight there's going to be this town hall that's being organized by several state attorneys general across the country. Not all the attorneys, John hall, who are involved in this kind of Avengers resistance group are going to be here, but it's kind of like a kickoff for what's going to be a series of these events. And really, it feels kind of like this is the beginning of the public facing side of the Democratic attempts to stop the Trump agenda. Right. A lot of it has been happening behind closed doors, in lawsuits, in courtrooms, and now you're seeing like the first concerted public effort to channel the energy, the rage, the frustration, the dismay that I think a lot of normal American citizens are feeling as Trump has run roughshod over the federal government. Trump and Elon Musk. So here we are in Phoenix, Arizona, baby. It's 5:30pm, almost sunset in the desert. I'm just outside of Central High School, a massive building just north of downtown. The school has its own political history. John McCain campaigned here when he was running against Barack Obama in 2008. Several years later, President Obama spoke here as well. And that kind of political weight is probably what the hosts of this event are going for.
- [02:48]
William Tong
Good evening, Arizona.
- [02:51]
Chris Mays
Arizona Attorney General Chris Mays is the host of the first national town hall for this group of state attorneys general. All of them are Democrats. The topic of tonight's event is cuts to the federal workforce and funding freezes, led in large part by Elon Musk and doge, the Department of Government Efficiency.
- [03:11]
William Tong
The stakes for many people in this room are deeply personal. This is not just a policy debate. It is their livelihoods, their families, and their futures.
- [03:23]
Chris Mays
Mays is joined by three other AGs, New Mexico's Raul Torres, Oregon's Dan Rayfield, and Minnesota's Keith Ellison.
- [03:32]
Alex Wagner
We believe the public doesn't like a.
- [03:36]
Kwame Raoul
Lot of things that have been happening from Washington recently.
- [03:40]
Alex Wagner
And we believe that if you have a chance to tell your truth, to listen to your neighbors, you just might.
- [03:47]
Kwame Raoul
Get up there on that microphone and.
- [03:49]
Alex Wagner
Tell your own story.
- [03:50]
Chris Mays
And while these AGs give brief remarks to the crowd, the point of this whole town hall was not to hear from the ags, but for the ags to hear from the public. I'm a family physician here in Phoenix, Arizona and I came to talk about impending Medicaid cuts. I'm here for my patients tonight. Currently, over 2 million Arizonans are covered by Medicaid, including over 750,000 kids aged 0 to 17.
- [04:20]
Alex Wagner
The federal budget cuts could take coverage.
- [04:22]
Chris Mays
From 550,000 of the most vulnerable Arizonans. There were a lot of people with very different stories to tell and different concerns to share about how the chaos inside the federal government is being felt all the way across the country. In the state of Arizona in June.
- [04:41]
Alex Wagner
I will lose my job. I am fortunate that the district Osborne School District will continue to honor my contract. Until then. As a father of a three year old, this isn't just about my career. It's about my child's well being. Right now I'm struggling to keep up with the $800 a month tuition for a preschool. Without my job, I don't know how I will afford to keep her in preschool. I have dedicated my career to education. That is 25 years of my life.
- [05:11]
Mary
I want to speak for many who.
- [05:12]
Chris Mays
Are at risk because they supported the US And Afghanistan. SIV is a special immigrant visa for people who serve with U.S. army and state Department overseas. Cutting federal fund tourist settlement agencies hurts SIV and refugees living in our communities.
- [05:29]
Mary
These individuals put their lives in line.
- [05:33]
Chris Mays
For our mission and now we must.
- [05:35]
Alex Wagner
Honor the promise we made to them.
- [05:39]
Chris Mays
The organizers claim there were over 100 people signed up to speak at the town hall. Not surprisingly, only a fraction of them got a chance to do so. But of those who did speak, the group that might have been most represented was veterans.
- [05:53]
Alex Wagner
For those who don't know, OFCCP is the only federal agency that takes complaints of discrimination from veterans. And this is reducing our agency down to nothing. So while my time is limited, I.
- [06:07]
Chris Mays
Just wanted to say this.
- [06:09]
Alex Wagner
This isn't subjective. This is evidence. This is evidence. In less than two months, this administration has proved itself to be the most anti veteran administration.
- [06:27]
Kwame Raoul
Ever.
- [06:30]
Chris Mays
This isn't just a political debate. People came to Cent on a Wednesday night because they were mad and confused and very, very worried. Hundreds of people whose lives have been upended by the decisions made by the Trump administration. And this evening, they were asking the attorneys general on stage to fight back.
- [06:50]
Alex Wagner
We have filed a bunch of lawsuits.
- [06:54]
Kwame Raoul
Birthright citizenship.
- [06:56]
Alex Wagner
We froze the freeze. We have filed the lawsuits that we haven't lost yet, folks.
- [07:02]
Chris Mays
And that's the thing. These attorneys general might be the best and most effective resistance to the Trump agenda. They aren't part of the federal government. They're rooted in the states. And now they're traveling across the country listening to citizens and making a case in court on their behalf. Tonight in Phoenix, people seem energized about someone finally having their backs. We are all going to suffer from the consequences of these actions. This will affect us all.
- [07:34]
Letitia James
So as the proud granddaughter of a World War II veteran and the proud daughter of a Vietnam veteran, I will say this. Hold the line.
- [07:56]
Chris Mays
On this episode of Trump Land with Alex Wagner, we talk to the chief law enforcement officers who are holding the line against President Trump and unchecked political power.
- [08:06]
Letitia James
Listen, I believe he's poked the bear. And I believe that more and more Americans will respond to this crisis.
- [08:13]
Chris Mays
And we hear what strategies they think could provide a new kind of resistance.
- [08:18]
Kwame Raoul
If federal employees are being laid off, they're not just laying off Democrats. They're laid off everybody. There's a ripple effect to all of it, and that's what we need to lift our voices about and speak about. Hatterday presents. In the red corner, the undisputed, undefeated weed whacker guy, champion of hurling grass and pollen everywhere. And in the blue corner, the challenger, extra strength Hataday eye drops that work all day to prevent the release of histamines that cause itchy allergy eyes. And the winner by knockout is Saturday. Bring it on.
- [09:07]
Alex Wagner
We all have that one friend who can fall asleep, like, anywhere. At the movies, on car rides, or at live sporting events. And I have always been jealous because on the other hand, from noise machines to mouth taping. I'm a lost cause. Or at least I thought I was until I decided to make this simple change. Get a new pillow Coop's original adjustable pillow completely changed my sleep. Sleep I used to toss and turn all night, waking up with like neck pain and feeling drained. Since switching to Coop, I sleep soundly and wake up energized and pain free. No matter if you sleep on your side, your back or your stomach, you can adjust the pillow's height by adding or taking out the fill. It's a mix of microfiber and memory foam that stays plush and never goes flat and they offer a 100 night better sleep guarantee. You deserve to wake up feeling refreshed and ache free. It's the perfect time to try Coop with their sleep week sale and get 20 off site wide from March 9 to March 15. Get 20 visit our website at coopsleepgoods.com health that's coopsleepgoods.com Health at Designer Shoe Warehouse, we believe that shoes are an important part of, well, everything from first.
- [10:16]
Mary
Steps to first dates. From all nighters to all time personal bests.
- [10:21]
Alex Wagner
From building pillow forts to building a.
- [10:23]
Mary
Mud for all the big and small moments that make up your whole world. You DSW is there and we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love at bragworthy prices at your DSW store or dsw.com.
- [10:43]
Chris Mays
Nearly two months into the new Trump administration, one of the only places where Donald Trump's radical agenda has been stalled is in the courts. And that's due in part to a group of Democratic state attorneys general who have joined forces to construct a fortified defense around the U.S. constitution. And it appears to be working.
- [11:05]
Alex Wagner
President Trump's agenda Hitting some legal roadblocks Multiple judges are stepping in to block some of the administration's efforts.
- [11:12]
William Tong
The judge is giving the White house.
- [11:13]
Mary
Less than two days to release billions of dollars in U.S. foreign aid.
- [11:17]
Alex Wagner
President Trump's sweeping spending freeze is on hold after a federal judge temporarily blocked the president's order to pause trillions of dollars in federal grants and loans. A judge in Seattle today saying Trump cannot ignore the Constitution when it comes to birthright citizenship. The president has overstepped his authority by a mile.
- [11:38]
Chris Mays
As of right now, there are at least eight lawsuits moving through the federal courts that have been collectively filed to varying degrees by nearly two dozen state attorneys general from democratically led states. And it seems they're just getting started because these cases didn't just appear out of nowhere. They're the product of months of coordination and preparation. Last week, Politico published a story about these 23 Democratic state AGs who have been meeting in private every single day for nearly four months on Microsoft Teams. And if you've ever used Microsoft Teams, you understand they must be committed. At any rate, the ags use these calls to plan a course of action, sharing updates with one another on how their cases are moving through the courts, while simultaneously sorting through the latest moves by the Trump administration and determining what matters are most urgent and need to be challenged. It's sort of like the Avengers, except without the skin tight bodysuits or the choreographed fight sequences. The stakes, though, might be just as high. I spoke to some of the attorneys general who are part of this group, including Illinois Attorney General Kwame Raul, who's joined several multi state lawsuits against the Trump administration, including one seeking to release millions of dollars in FEMA grants that are meant to bolster state level preparedness for emergencies ranging from things like wildfires and floods to terrorist attacks and cybersecurity threats. Thank you for doing this.
- [13:11]
Kwame Raoul
My pleasure.
- [13:12]
Chris Mays
I've been talking to a number of the AGs about the work you guys are doing collectively and collaboratively. You were quoted, I think, saying all the AGs are used to being in charge, but people have put their egos aside. Can you just talk to me about how do you guys all work together, you know, collectively?
- [13:30]
Alex Wagner
Yeah.
- [13:31]
Kwame Raoul
I mean, so most of us are politically elected. So between that and being a chief executive of your office, for instance, I have, you know, close to a thousand employees, 500 lawyers, so I'm used to being in charge. But the great thing about us in this ag community is that this is not new. Working together, we've done a lot of relationship building over time. And based on that and based on having a history, some of us are newer than others. A few ags just started their term, but even for them, we got to start knowing them when they were candidates. And that's kind of cool because, you know, when it gets into, like an intense time, and these have been intense times with, with very weighty matters.
- [14:16]
Chris Mays
Yeah.
- [14:17]
Kwame Raoul
Having the relationships, being able to crack a joke here and there while we're discussing, you know, something as weighty as all of these funds being frozen, or whether it's birthright citizenship or whether it's cutting short funds for research facilities, I can go on and on. Each and every one of these things are weighty matters that I know for me, it wakes me up at 2 o'clock in the morning sometimes. But it's Important for us to be able to have a temperament with one another that, you know, allows us to just laugh things off. You know, there's going to be debate, there's going to be debate about approaches, but we're better collectively than we are individually.
- [14:59]
Chris Mays
So it's like 99% legal Avengers 1% therapy session.
- [15:03]
Kwame Raoul
Yeah, yeah. Well, there's definitely some of that. And you know, one person has to know to bump the brakes when somebody else might have reason to be a little bit more sensitive about one issue versus another and. Yeah, but you know, we're people who like each other. Yeah, that's important.
- [15:19]
Chris Mays
How is your staff dealing with this?
- [15:21]
Kwame Raoul
It's been a strain. It's certainly been a strain. You know, not all of my 500 lawyers are working on this litigation dealing with some of the executive orders and some of the other actions. But for those who have, they also have other responsibilities. Right. There are other ongoing things that pre existed these actions that I still have to lean on these same lawyers.
- [15:44]
Chris Mays
Right.
- [15:44]
Kwame Raoul
To do that work. So there's been burning the midnight oil when we have to really turn something around. However, I've got great lawyers that come to work for a fraction of what they would make in the private sector. These are people who are here because of the subject matter. So while this is a disturbing time, this is also rewarding for them to be on the front lines doing this work to try to protect our republic, to try to protect our Constitution as we've known it, and try to protect workers and the services that people rely on government to provide. And so you don't go home feeling like, oh, what am I doing with my life? Yeah, right.
- [16:25]
Chris Mays
Clarity of purpose. Real clarity of purpose.
- [16:28]
Kwame Raoul
That's right.
- [16:29]
Chris Mays
What's your level of optimism about the next four years of American life? I mean, you're on the front lines here trying to protect and safeguard basic tenets of our democracy. How optimistic, how bullish are you on your prospects?
- [16:46]
Kwame Raoul
Well, I'd be lying to say that I'm not fearful and disturbed. And that of course motivates me. I'm hopeful because I get to be in this room doing this work with my colleagues. There's something that James Carville said recently that I didn't completely agree with, but I understand it.
- [17:03]
Chris Mays
Isn't that the nature of a James Carville quote is like you can't agree with it completely, but there's a nugget of something there.
- [17:09]
Kwame Raoul
Yeah. He in essence said the best thing we can do is do nothing because they're being so reckless. They're just going to harm everybody, including people who supported him. And I think he's right about the harms.
- [17:22]
William Tong
Right.
- [17:23]
Kwame Raoul
But I, as a state attorney general, can't just watch while unconstitutional and unlawful actions are taking place. I'd be abandoning my responsibility if I just sat back and said, well, I'm just going to let it happen because the backlash is going to fix it. I have to step up and challenge these. And the hope that I have is that we know our success rate of the past. In the suits that we followed before during Trump 1.0, we were successful in 80% of them.
- [17:55]
Chris Mays
Good batting average.
- [17:56]
Alex Wagner
Yeah.
- [17:56]
Kwame Raoul
That makes a huge difference in people's lives.
- [17:59]
Chris Mays
I also spoke with Connecticut's Attorney General, William Tong, who, in addition to the other parts of his job, has been working to fight against Trump's efforts to revoke birthright citizenship, as well as Trump's freeze on federal funding and Elon Musk's apparently unconstitutional power grab. Mr. Attorney General, thank you for doing this.
- [18:22]
Dana Nessel
Alex, thank you.
- [18:24]
Chris Mays
I'm in the car and you're in the car. So this is like most mobile conversation ever.
- [18:29]
Dana Nessel
I'm on i95, so I'm coming from Norwich, Connecticut, going home to Stanford, Connecticut.
- [18:36]
Chris Mays
Yeah. You're a busy man, which goes without saying. But are you driving?
- [18:40]
Kwame Raoul
I'm.
- [18:40]
Chris Mays
At least I'm a passenger. I'm a passenger. We practice safe interview techniques here. Very good. On this NPC podcast. So let's talk a little bit about the specifics, because I know that you're part of a lawsuit against the president's executive order aimed at ending birthright citizenship. And the theory there is that that runs afoul of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution. And I think it's Section 1401 of the Immigration and National. Can you unpack for me a little bit about how you got involved in that fight? It sort of sounds like from your family history that this is not just a professional fight for you, but a personal one.
- [19:17]
Dana Nessel
It is a fact of the 14th Amendment that the plain language of a bedrock cornerstone of the United States Constitution means what it says. You're born on American soil, you're an American. And that was established after the Civil War in response to essentially slavery and the Dred Scott decision and the idea that slaves were not only not citizens, but not people. So we passed and ratified the 14th amendment as a country to establish that not just slaves, but all of us who are born on American soil are Americans. That principle was burned by the Supreme Court in a case about a Chinese American, Wong Kim Ark. And, Alex, I would say this. Can you imagine if another president said, you know what? Notwithstanding what the Second Amendment says, no Americans can possess firearms.
- [20:15]
Chris Mays
Right.
- [20:16]
Dana Nessel
People would lose their minds and take to the streets. That is how unconstitutional this is. But for me, you know, without birthright citizenship, you and I are not having this conversation.
- [20:30]
Chris Mays
Yeah.
- [20:30]
Dana Nessel
I am an American by right of my birth on American soil. I don't derive my citizenship. My parents, they were both immigrants when I was born. Dad had a complicated immigration story, like many people. And so this is very personal for me.
- [20:45]
Chris Mays
I know, for example, in the birthright citizenship case, you guys filed separate lawsuits in Massachusetts and Washington State. And I wonder if you could talk about the logic of that and your confidence that the judicial branch will continue to act as a bulwark against the worst impulses of the Trump administration.
- [21:02]
Dana Nessel
So we have to be confident. We have to believe in the system. We have to trust the system, or we are lost. And so you and I could spend an hour, the next 10 hours going into some dark, very dark places and rabbit holes. What if this happens? What if that happens? I've said many times, people, don't go there. Don't go to. What happens if the Alabama National Guard is ordered to go to Connecticut? Don't go there, because those are dark places in which we will be unrecognizable as a people and as a nation. We've been successful so far, but it's going to get harder. I obviously won't divulge the contents of our privileged communications between attorneys.
- [21:49]
Chris Mays
Sure.
- [21:50]
Dana Nessel
And our strategy, except to say we were ready for this. He telegraphed what he was going to do, and we took him at his word.
- [22:01]
Chris Mays
And last but not least, I caught up with New York's Attorney General, Letitia James, who has been in near constant litigation with Donald Trump, both as president and as a private citizen. When I caught the AG by phone, the news had broken about another win for this group of Democratic state attorneys general.
- [22:19]
Letitia James
Today we are celebrating this major win with regards to the National Institute of Health. We stopped the Trump administration from slashing vital medical and scientific research funding. And here in the great state of New York, that would have impacted billions of dollars to the University of Rochester and Buffalo in Albany and in Stony Brook. And as you know, those institutions are working on groundbreaking cures for cancer and Alzheimer's and heart disease, and they are economic engines in their respective cities. So, you know, we are on a winning streak, just as we were during Trump 1. And we will continue to stand up for the rule of Law, the coalition.
- [23:09]
Chris Mays
Has targeted Musk and the Doge team with two separate lawsuits, and your office is leading one of them. Can you talk a little bit about that and why, you know, you're focusing on Elon Musk and what the strategy is?
- [23:21]
Letitia James
Well, primarily it's because I do not want an unelected individual to have access to the sensitive data of Americans, their Social Security numbers, their addresses, their tax refunds. He was not elected. He's not even an employee. And it's still uncertain as to, you know, who is ultimately the head of Doge. And so they primarily hide behind this argument, this notion that they are trying to, you know, get rid of waste and fraud and corruption. But there's nothing further from the truth. The reality is, is all that they are doing is trying to cut government, primarily to pass a tax cut for the 1%, I guess.
- [24:06]
Chris Mays
I wonder what you think their calculation is and how you guys are, you know, responding accordingly, given the brazenness of all this.
- [24:14]
Letitia James
Listen, I believe he's poked the bear. We've passed the Rubicon. And I believe that more and more Americans will respond to this crisis. I can tell you that seniors are a very, very vocal, active, and powerful constituency. And when you start messing with senior citizens and their social securities, then you are going to feel the wrath like never before.
- [24:39]
Chris Mays
You must be tired of having to take Trump to court. No. It's been so many years. I mean, how do you think about it, just from a psychological perspective? First of all, you've been in his crosshairs. He's been focused on you for years now. I know you're once again in a lead role. And really, in many ways, you know, these AGs, you guys are the tip of the spear in terms of the resistance and acting as a bulwark against the worst impulses of the administration. And what does it feel like to be in that position still?
- [25:08]
Letitia James
I don't have time to really think about it. You know, listen, faith and fear cannot share the same space. And my conscience is clear each and every night. And I worry more about my neighbors who are on Social Security, who are immigrants, individuals who are veterans who served our country, law enforcement. I worry more about those individuals. I'm going to be okay. I will be fine. And it's important that individuals understand. All throughout my career, all throughout my life, I've taken on bullies, and I've taken on individuals who seek to separate us and who espouse hate. And Donald Trump is no different.
- [25:54]
Chris Mays
We're gonna take a break. We'll Be back in just a minute.
- [26:06]
Kwame Raoul
The last thing you want to hear when you need your auto insurance most is a robot with countless irrelevant menu options. Which is why with USAA auto insurance you'll get great service that is easy.
- [26:15]
Alex Wagner
And relax, reliable all at the touch of a button.
- [26:17]
Kwame Raoul
Get a quote Today restrictions apply.
- [26:21]
Alex Wagner
We all have that one friend who can fall asleep like anywhere. At the movies, on car rides or at live sporting events. And I have always been jealous because on the other hand, from noise machines to mouth taping, I'm a lost cause. Or at least I thought I was until I decided to make this simple change. Get a new Pillow Coop's original adjustable pillow completely changed my sleep. I used to toss and turn all night, waking up with like neck PA pain and feeling drained. Since switching to Coop, I sleep soundly and wake up energized and pain free. No matter if you sleep on your side, your back or your stomach, you can adjust the pillow's height by adding or taking out the fill. It's a mix of microfiber and memory foam that stays plush and never goes flat and they offer a 100 night better sleep guarantee. You deserve to wake up feeling refreshed and ache free. It's the perfect time to try Coop with their sleep week sale and get 20 off site wide from March 9th to March 15th. Get 20 off. Visit our website at coopsleepgoods.com health that's coopsleepgoods.com Health I've never felt like this before.
- [27:25]
Mary
It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you. Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your DSW store or DSW.com.
- [27:58]
William Tong
When the Federal government and Congress abandons its responsibilities, it falls to us to step up and defend the people that we serve. And that is why we're doing what we're doing.
- [28:14]
Chris Mays
Arizona's Attorney General Chris Mays is one of the attorneys general leading this town hall in Phoenix.
- [28:20]
William Tong
And each and every one of you who is here tonight is a patriot. You are a patriot.
- [28:29]
Chris Mays
Arizona is an interesting state, moving in recent years from solidly red to a key battleground. Biden narrowly won the state in 2020, which was only the the second time in nearly three decades that the state went to a Democratic presidential candidate Trump won back the state last year, even after Arizona elected a Democratic governor and two Democratic senators. Arizona is also a state where you can really see the impact of Doge's actions. Since Trump took office, there are more than 34,000 federal workers in the state. And Doge's mass federal layoffs last month, month included staff overseeing hundreds of millions of dollars in loans for programs that benefit the state's rural communities. This past weekend, nearly 1,000 people gathered at a Tesla dealership in Tucson to protest against Elon Musk and the cuts being made by his Doge team.
- [29:26]
Alex Wagner
Hundreds lined up on the sidewalk of that busy Tucson intersection hold. Encouraged by honking drivers, these protesters say the actions of President Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and some in the administration, in their view, are undermining our democracy.
- [29:43]
Chris Mays
Back in Phoenix, Attorney General Mays took a moment to sit down with me ahead of the town hall.
- [29:50]
William Tong
We're really united as a group. All 23 Democratic AGs are united. Most of us are joining these lawsuits together, and we've been planning for this for a while together. As you know, Project 2025 has been out there for more than a year. We knew it was coming, I think. You know, I'm not sure we knew the ferocity of it and some of the cruelty of it took even some of us, including me, by surprise. And the degree to which they were willing to be, especially in the area of, like, the federal funding freeze and the firings, so absolutely indiscriminate, doing it in such a hatchet way, you know, I mean, I think that visual with Elon Musk and the chainsaw, like, so emblematic of the whole thing. Also insane. I'm not sure that man has ever used a chainsaw in his entire life. Not sure if that was some.
- [30:50]
Chris Mays
I'm guessing no. I'm just gonna say it. I'm guessing no.
- [30:53]
William Tong
Look, as a girl who grew up in Northern Arizona and rural Arizona, I have used a chainsaw. I've seen my dad, a chainsaw. That man has never used a chainsaw in his life.
- [31:05]
Chris Mays
But, well, it just speaks to the lack of expertise here. Right? This person doing this stuff has no idea maybe what he's doing.
- [31:12]
William Tong
Yeah, none whatsoever. And the AGs are really committed to bringing lawsuits against the Trump administration when they engage in unconstitutional and illegal behavior. And it seems like that has happened pretty much every week since he took office.
- [31:29]
Chris Mays
Just in terms of the practical organization of these lawsuits, in Trump 1.0, you would have different states suing on different aspects of, you know, executive orders or whatever. This time around, it feels like you guys are talking to each other. You're kind of working in a unified fashion, which isn't to besmirch, you know, what was done and was very effective in Trump 1.0. But it feels like you're really working more as a team. And I wonder, just on a practical level, for the person that's on the outside of these calls, is it like, hey, Tish, you got this one. Keith, you got this. I mean, just give me a sense of how you guys divvy up the work.
- [32:06]
William Tong
Yeah, I think, you know, AG's raised their hand based on their interest, their capacity also inside their offices. So not every office has the capacity to, you know, lead one of these lawsuits. Obviously, you've got some states like New York, California, Illinois, Massachusetts, even Washington state that have huge capacity, some other states less so. And I think that's been part of the magic, which is we, because we're unified, because we're working together, we can do these lawsuits together and pool our resources, essentially. And so I'll give you an example of this. When I filed the lawsuit against Elon Musk and Doge based on the fact that they are violating the Appointments Clause, I did that with New Mexico AG Ral Torres and Michigan AG Dana Nestle. We were working together. Our staffs were working together literally day and night. We had some of the smartest lawyers in each of our regions and across this country working together, working drafts, doing edits on drafts, going back and forth until we got it right. And then we did the press conference afterwards together to announce the lawsuit and obviously get it filed. So. So that's the kind of thing that we can do when we're working together. And I think it's really special, frankly. I don't know that the governors are in the same spot, you know, and to some degree, that's by virtue of the fact that we're the ones who can file the lawsuits. We represent our states. We are the top legal and in my case, the top law enforcement officer of our states. And so it's our job to protect our states and to advocate for our states against the federal government. And in this insanity coming out of Washington, D.C. and I have been pretty forward leaning. I think it's a coup. I think it's a coup that we are experiencing. When you have an unelected billionaire in the form of Elon Musk rampaging through federal agencies, who knows, hoovering up private data, which by the way, is pissing off a lot of Arizonans across the political spectrum and violating the separation of powers. And on multiple occasions, they have violated court orders, even where we get tros against them. That is why I call it a coup, because they are already violating federal court orders. We have had now twice, Alex, to go back in and ask for what's called a motion to compel after they have violated a court order.
- [34:46]
Chris Mays
You guys feel a little bit like the democratic avengers. I mean, I think people have been a little bit bereft. Like, where do we look? Where's the leadership? And I think I feel like you guys are the people that are bringing the worst, most unlawful actions to the courts. Just if you could tell me about, like, is there a fighting spirit that you share? Like, what's the emotional tenor of this group of people when you get together? And I would say, like, when you hear from the citizenry and then you take that back to these zoom calls or these meetings, like, what does it feel like?
- [35:15]
William Tong
Yeah, I think there is a fighting spirit and there's, I think, a view and a feeling amongst the attorneys general that we have a duty to fulfill to the nation and that we have never been in a more perilous time in our nation's history, probably since the Civil War. And we feel a deep obligation to stand up for our communities, for people who've been harmed, and for our Constitution. And in my case, I feel like if I never do anything else in my life again but stand up for our Constitution and stand up for the people of Arizona, I'll be okay with that.
- [35:59]
Chris Mays
That's a lot.
- [36:00]
William Tong
This is it. I mean, this is.
- [36:01]
Chris Mays
That ain't nothing.
- [36:02]
William Tong
But I feel that way. And I know that I think other AGs feel that way, that this is a. You know, every once in a generation, Americans are called on to sacrifice and to fight for our country. And this is that time. And I believe there are a lot of Americans who are waking up every day believing the same thing.
- [36:32]
Chris Mays
We'll be back next Thursday with a new episode of Trumpland with Alex Wagner. Thanks for listening. To get this show and other MSNBC podcasts ad free. Be sure to subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. As a subscriber, you'll also get exclusive bonus content. Trompland with Alex Wagner is produced by Max Jacobs along with Julia D'Angelo and Kay Guerrero. Our associate producer is Jamaris Perez. Our crew includes Bill Hennessy on audio and Catherine McNamara and Patrick Morrissey on camera. Our audio engineers are Bob Mallory and Katie Lau. Matthew Alexander is our executive producer, and Aisha Turner is the executive producer of MSNBC Audio, and I'm your host, Alex Wagner. We'll see you next week.
- [37:30]
Mary
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