Main Justice – "Normalizing Militarization"

MSNBC | August 19, 2025 | Hosts: Andrew Weissmann & Mary McCord

Episode Overview

In this episode of Main Justice, hosts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord leverage their deep Department of Justice experience to examine the recent federal moves to assert unprecedented federal authority in Washington, D.C., the deployment of out-of-state National Guard units, and ongoing legal cases affecting executive power. They spotlight the “normalization” of militarization in American life, legal conflicts around control of the D.C. police, National Guard deployments, and offer legal analysis on recent circuit court decisions with broad implications for administrative law and constitutional separation of powers.

Main Themes:

• The federal government's attempted takeover of local law enforcement in D.C.
• Multistate National Guard deployments and their constitutional ramifications
• The legal and societal dangers of normalizing militarization on US streets
• Analysis of recent legal battles over executive actions defunding agencies or overriding Congressional power
• Context on the Trump-Putin meeting involving Ukraine

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Attempted Federal Takeover of D.C. Police

Segment: [05:35]–[17:49]

• Background: President Trump issued an executive order authorizing federal control over the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department (MPD), invoking Section 740 of the D.C. Home Rule Act.
• Pam Bondi’s Order: Attorney General Pam Bondi attempted to appoint DEA Administrator Terrence Cole as Emergency Commissioner of the MPD, requiring all police to report to him and rescinding D.C. "sanctuary city" policies.
  • Mary McCord: “...the US Attorney General ... issued a directive that actually purported to appoint the DEA Drug Enforcement Administration Administrator, Terrence Cole, as the Emergency Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Department, required everyone at MPD to report to him, and said that the police chief, commanders and others couldn't even do anything without clearing it through him.” [08:00]
• Legal Pushback: D.C.'s Attorney General Brian Schwab filed an emergency lawsuit; Judge Ana Reyes heard the case and signaled clear skepticism of the takeover, citing the explicit, limited language of the Home Rule Act.
  • Mary McCord: “She also makes it clear that she does not see how taking over the police is actually consistent with the Home Rule Act… It says he asked the mayor to provide services and the mayor can provide them. The U.S. department of justice attorney … took a extremely capacious reading...” [12:18]
  • Andrew Weissmann: “...what's remarkable is DOJ caved. The judge was like, ‘No, you cannot take over the mpd.’” [15:16]
• Outcome: DOJ withdrew the original takeover order, issuing a revised one making the DEA head only a designee to request services from the mayor, not direct police operations.

2. National Guard Deployments from Multiple States

Segment: [19:50]–[28:48]

• The Issue: Five states—Ohio, South Carolina, West Virginia, Mississippi, and Louisiana—deployed National Guard troops to D.C., reminiscent of 2020 Black Lives Matter protests.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “Is it different because it's D.C. and then there's this issue of just how much can there sort of be federalizing and takeover of the MPD by the Department of Justice...” [05:35]
  • Mary McCord: “People might be thinking, what the heck? … this is reminiscent of 2020.” [21:36]
• Legal Authority: Deployments are under Title 32, Section 502(f) — not full federalization, but Governors retaining authority. However, since D.C. is a federal enclave (not a state), local objection (Mayor Bowser) does not legally block deployments as it would if another state were involved.
  • Mary McCord: “If you then had one Governor, send the National Guard into a state that is not consenting. You would have one National Guard, one state National Guard invading another state's sovereignty. That would seem to be pretty blatantly unconstitutional. But D.C. is not a state.” [23:37]
• Societal Consequences & Normalization:
  • Andrew Weissmann: “...even if it turns out to be partially or even fully legal, you are normalizing something that is really dangerous. The idea of having the National Guard and the military perform these functions… We're not in any sort of real emergency…” [25:18]
  • Mary McCord: “Can you imagine if this kind of thing sort of spreads... are we supposed to get used to seeing fully geared up, kitted up military on the streets?” [26:51]
  • Both note economic consequences—declining DC tourism, business worries.

3. The LA Trial: Posse Comitatus and the National Guard

Segment: [28:48]–[32:56]

• In LA: National Guard and Marines, federalized under Title 10, allegedly conducted law enforcement against civilians, which may violate the Posse Comitatus Act.
  • Mary McCord: “...the government made a much more vigorous argument right before trial that actually the deployment is an exception to the Posse Comitatus act, that the federalization under title 10, section 12,406... is an exception to Posse Comitatus.” [30:00]
• Key Question: Were troops supporting federal property security or performing domestic arrests/seizures? Judge Breyer’s factual findings will be pivotal for future deployments nationally.

4. NYC Detainee Conditions Case

Segment: [32:56]–[38:04]

• Summary: Judge Lewis Kaplan issued a restraining order against “inhumane” ICE confinement conditions at 26 Federal Plaza, NYC.
  • Andrew Weissmann: “...there are no beds. There are multiple. Multiple people in the same room. There are open toilets... you get the idea of complete squalor.” [34:54]
  • Mary McCord: “This is about the conditions of the confinement and their right to counsel and to consult with counsel.” [37:14]
• ICE’s Response: Denial of allegations and political framing (“removing the worst of the worst”).

5. Trump-Putin Meeting & Ukraine – Historical Context

Segment: [40:04]–[45:33]

• Backdrop: After Trump’s Alaska summit with Putin and just before the White House’s EU/Ukraine meetings, Russia again presses for control of the Donbas.
  • Andrew Weissmann (drawing on Mueller report experience): “...what Russia wants is... for Ukraine to cede to them the Donbas... this was so important to Russia that Konstantin Kilimnik flew to New York City from Russia... at the height of the [2016] campaign.” [42:31]
• Historical Tie-In: The Donbas "ask" echoes 2016 attempts to use Trump’s campaign for favorable outcomes, highlighting longstanding Russian objectives.

6. D.C. Circuit Decisions on Executive Power

Segment: [45:33]–[54:35]

• Case 1: Foreign Aid Freeze & Impoundment:
  • Majority rejected the standing/cause of action of plaintiffs challenging the administration’s failure to disburse Congressionally-appropriated foreign aid (despite Impoundment Control Act). Dissent warned this tacitly permits Presidents to “dispense with” laws—an unconstitutional power.
    • Judge Pan (dissent): “The power that the President attempted to assert ... a general entitlement to disobey duly enacted laws for policy reasons is also known as dispensing power. ... It is uncontroversial that such a presidential power does not exist.” [49:34]
• Case 2: Dismantling the CFPB:
  • Challenge to agency shutdown was dismissed by the majority as not "final," despite major operational changes. Dissenters highlight that this shields executive overreach from review.
    • Judge Pillard (dissent): "The notion that courts are powerless to prevent the President from abolishing the agencies ... cannot be reconciled with either the constitutional separation of powers or our nation's commitment to a government of laws." [53:05]
• Potential Appeals: Both cases may be reheard en banc or reach the Supreme Court due to constitutional implications.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mary McCord [12:18]: “She [Judge Reyes] also makes it clear that she does not see how taking over the police is actually consistent with the Home Rule Act.”
• Andrew Weissmann [15:16]: "What's remarkable is DOJ caved. The judge was like, this is no, you cannot take over the MPD.”
• Mary McCord [21:36]: “This is reminiscent of 2020... National Guards from so-called red states also showing up on the streets of District of Columbia.”
• Andrew Weissmann [25:18]: “...you are normalizing something that is really dangerous. The idea of having the National Guard and the military perform these functions...”
• Judge Pan, dissent, Foreign Aid case [49:34]: “The power that the President attempted to assert ... is also known as dispensing power ... such a presidential power does not exist.”
• Judge Pillard, dissent, CFPB case [53:05]: “The notion that courts are powerless to prevent the President from abolishing the agencies ... cannot be reconciled with either the constitutional separation of powers or our nation's commitment to a government of laws.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening Banter & Preview: [01:00–05:35]
• D.C. Police Takeover – Legal Battle: [05:35–17:49]
• National Guard Deployments & State/Federal Clash: [19:50–28:48]
• LA Posse Comitatus Trial: [28:48–32:56]
• NYC ICE Confinement Case: [32:56–38:04]
• Ukraine/Russia/Donbas Historical Context: [40:04–45:33]
• D.C. Circuit Executive Power Decisions: [45:33–54:35]

Language & Tone

The tone is collegial, sometimes playful (especially in early banter about yogurt, pickles, and home cooking), but grounded in deep legal expertise. Both hosts are candid about the gravity of normalization of militarization and the dangers of unchecked executive power—their analysis is rigorous but made accessible (“a little note to listener...”).

Summary Takeaway

This episode of Main Justice provides urgent, detailed analysis of ongoing trends eroding local autonomy, normalizing the use of federal and military force in domestic governance, and the tightening of presidential power at the expense of Congressional oversight and constitutional norms. Through expert legal parsing, Weissmann and McCord highlight why these shifts are not just legal technicalities, but fundamental assaults on the principles of American democracy.