Main Justice: "We're in a Different Place"

Podcast: Main Justice
Hosts: Andrew Weissmann & Mary McCord
Date: August 27, 2025
Episode Theme:
This episode provides a deep dive into recent actions and controversies surrounding the Department of Justice (DOJ) under the renewed Trump administration. Weissmann and McCord scrutinize the rule of law, foundational constitutional issues, and the evident politicization of criminal and civil enforcement at the highest levels. The hosts explore a range of issues: legal abuses toward immigrants, unprecedented federal intervention in local law enforcement, executive overreach, and the dangers posed by the normalization of these developments.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Justice Department Abuses: The Abrego Garcia Case

• Case Recap and New Developments ([04:24]-[13:37]):

  • Kilmar Abrego Garcia was illegally deported to El Salvador against a court order due to risk of retribution; was subsequently returned to the US by government order after Supreme Court condemnation for due process violations.

  • The government attempted to coerce a plea by offering to deport Garcia to Costa Rica (which gave assurances of safety) if he pleaded guilty — but when he refused, officials abruptly threatened to deport him to Uganda, a country offering no such assurances. This move is under immediate judicial scrutiny.

  • ICE rearrested Garcia during a routine check-in, detaining him again.

    “Because you’re not pleading guilty, we are going to remove you to some godforsaken country you know nothing about… Uganda hasn’t given any of the assurances… It just looks like… you are punishing me for not pleading guilty. And so this is entirely coercive.”
    — Andrew Weissmann ([09:21])

• Ethical Concerns and Government Retaliation ([13:37]-[16:08]):

  • The whistleblower DOJ attorney who admitted the government’s initial mistake in open court was fired.

  • DHS publicly maligned Garcia on social media with accusations of being an MS-13 gang member, human trafficker, and worse—allegations not supported by charges or evidence.

    “DHS is thrilled that this MS-13 gang member, human trafficker, wife beater and child predator is being processed for removal to Uganda, exclamation point… That is our government saying that. That about somebody where none of that has been proved.”
    — Andrew Weissmann ([13:37])

  • Both hosts highlight the grave due process and ethical violations, including punishment for exercising constitutional rights and government attempts to suppress fair trials.

2. Political Retribution: FBI Search of John Bolton’s Home/Office

• Context ([17:15]-[20:00]):

  • John Bolton, former National Security Advisor and vocal Trump critic, becomes a target; his security detail was revoked by Trump despite ongoing threats to his safety.
  • After recent public criticisms by Bolton, FBI conducted search warrants on his home and office.

• Concerns of Abuse and Lack of Presumption of Regularity ([20:00]-[23:46]):

  • The warrants required probable cause, but Mary McCord notes that, due to preceding government dishonesty, she’s forced to question the truthfulness of sworn affidavits—a situation she never would have imagined in prior years.

    “For me to even enter my head… that a law enforcement agent could potentially have been less than truthful in an affidavit… I never would have even thought that in the past. Right?”
    — Mary McCord ([22:33])

• Norms Broken: White House Publicity and Separation ([23:46]-[26:04]):

  • Vice President and other officials publicly discussed the criminal investigation—a breach of longstanding norms separating DOJ from White House political interference. Weissmann likens it to the post-Watergate reforms meant to avoid precisely this.

    “Ever since Watergate… the Attorney General has issued a policy and the White House counsel has issued a policy that you will not communicate about ongoing investigations… This administration just doesn’t care about that… It is about as wrong as you could possibly be.”
    — Mary McCord ([25:07])

3. Coercion of Sanctuary Cities by DOJ (AG Pam Bondi)

• Threatening Letters to Sanctuary Jurisdictions ([28:15]-[35:59]):

  • Attorney General Pam Bondi sent direct letters to city and state leaders, demanding immediate action to eliminate sanctuary policies—or face criminal investigation and lawsuits.

  • Letter language is harsh and authoritarian:

    “This ends now.”
    — Pam Bondi letter, recited by Mary McCord ([31:08])

  • Weissmann and McCord emphasize: it is not lawful to coerce state cooperation above federal requirements or to threaten “sanctions” for political disagreement.

  • Past federal court rulings (e.g., Judge Oreck, California) have already enjoined similar Trump administration efforts as unconstitutional.

  • Bondi’s letters directly violated the rules of professional responsibility by contacting represented parties in ongoing litigation.

    “When you are in litigation with someone, you may not directly communicate with a represented party… And what we saw the US Attorney General do is directly write to the mayors…”
    — Mary McCord ([34:17])

4. Release of DOJ Interview Transcripts: Ghislaine Maxwell

• Subpoenaed Transcripts and DOJ Nontransparency ([35:59]-[42:21]):

  • DOJ has not turned over the vast majority (300GB) of records to Congress – released only narrow Maxwell interview transcripts.

  • Interviews were conducted by Deputy AG Todd Blanche, alone—an extreme irregularity in high-profile, sensitive cases.

  • Maxwell, notorious for her lies to courts and probation agencies, is treated deferentially in the transcript; Blanche fails to challenge obvious inconsistencies or probe her veracity.

    “I was struck that Todd Blanche… had not made the transition from being Donald Trump’s personal attorney to his current position. Shocking…”
    — Andrew Weissmann ([39:29])

  • Hosts critique “transparency theater” (releasing some records but refusing full disclosure), and question forthcoming congressional testimony by Alexander Acosta (Epstein’s prosecutor), suggesting career prosecutors would offer clearer answers.

5. Judicial Rebuke of Unqualified U.S. Attorneys

• Judge in New Jersey ruled that Acting US Attorney Alina Haba was unlawfully holding office without Senate confirmation — a pointed judicial pushback on Trump’s practice of placing loyalists in key legal posts without vetting or qualification ([42:21]-[43:59]).
• Similar pushback is surfacing nationwide, attributed to “lack of remote competence… or the politicization or both.” (Weissmann, [43:48])

6. Executive Orders: National Guard Militarization & ‘Crime Emergency’ in DC

• Key Provisions & Dangers ([46:35]-[59:12]):

  • Trump signed new executive orders dramatically expanding the powers and missions of the DC National Guard, creating a “specialized unit” under federal control, deputized by the Attorney General and Secretary of Homeland Security, including for immigration enforcement.
  • Provisions allow for rapid deployment of National Guard Quick Reaction Forces nationwide to any city “where public safety and order has been lost,” based solely on presidential discretion.

    “This just sounds like an army that is being created, that is under the control of the president, but not to deal with external forces, but to deal with internal forces.”
    — Andrew Weissmann ([49:51])

  • Mary McCord explains that DC’s unique federal status means its Guard is always under presidential, not gubernatorial, command—raising direct Posse Comitatus and constitutional concerns.
  • The “crime emergency” rationale is denounced as a ruse that could be invoked in any city, at any time, for limitless federal intervention and potential political targeting.

    “The ruse, and I use that word deliberately, of grounding this on safety concerns is the kind of thing that allows this to be done anywhere...”
    — Andrew Weissmann ([54:53])

• Historical Parallels & Warning Signs ([54:53]-[59:12]):

  • Weissmann cites legal history (Justice Jackson’s Youngstown concurrence, German “emergency powers”) warning how “emergency” rationales erode democracy.

    “The reason this is so, to me, different in kind is because it is not just the road to authoritarianism. It is… it is it.”
    — Andrew Weissmann ([57:14])

  • McCord notes public’s reluctance to visit D.C.—not for crime, but repulsion at the city’s new militarized reality.

    “They don’t want to come because they don’t want to be in a city that they feel like is going to be a militarized zone.”
    — Mary McCord ([59:12])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Current DOJ:

  “The onslaught, which is hard to see as not being intentional.”
  — Andrew Weissmann ([02:11])

• On Vindictive Criminal Prosecutions:

  “When you are penalized, treated more harshly by the government because of the exercise of [the right to trial], that is something that can lead to the dismissal of an indictment on grounds of vindictive prosecution.”
  — Mary McCord ([16:08])

• On Norms and Separation:

  “The Attorney General has issued a policy… that you will not communicate about ongoing investigations… This administration just doesn’t care about that… as a matter of good policy and good government, that is about as wrong as you could possibly be.”
  — Mary McCord ([25:07])

• On Sanctuary City Threats:

  “This ends now.”
  — AG Pam Bondi letter ([31:08])

  “States do not have to be little mini-mes of the federal government in this area.”
  — Andrew Weissmann ([31:20])

• On Use of National Guard & Federalization:

  “This is a huge step… We now have the excuse of crime to send military throughout the country under federal control.”
  — Mary McCord ([57:33])

  “If the trigger for being able to militarize this country is the president having unilateral authority to say we have a crisis… that is no trigger. Emergency powers beget emergency powers…”
  — Andrew Weissmann ([54:53])

• On Slippery Slope to Authoritarianism:

  “This is like the frog and the water boiling… This is happening incrementally… People need to really wake up to what is going on.”
  — Andrew Weissmann ([57:57])

Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:09] Episode begins, hosts overview dance card for the day
• [02:20]-[16:08] The Abrego Garcia case: timeline, coercion, whistleblower retaliation, government defamation
• [17:15]-[26:04] John Bolton FBI search: political retribution, norm-breaking, public White House interference
• [28:15]-[35:59] Sanctuary city crackdown: Bondi’s letters, legal challenges, professional conduct violations
• [35:59]-[42:21] DOJ’s Ghislaine Maxwell disclosures, transparency gaps, congressional oversight
• [42:21]-[43:59] Judge’s finding: Acting US Attorney improperly in office
• [46:35]-[59:12] Executive orders: militarization of DC, National Guard authority, broader implications for democracy

Episode Tone & Final Message

The tone is grave yet urgent, interspersed with wry legal humor and personal camaraderie between two veteran prosecutors. Both hosts express genuine alarm at the normalization of lawless, coercive, and politicized conduct at the highest levels of American law enforcement and government. They make an explicit call to listeners: stay alert, get informed, and “make your voices heard. This is not lawful. It’s not what we want.” ([60:26])

For a full legal analysis, refer to resources in the episode’s show notes, including the executive order discussed.