Podcast Summary: "750 Milliarden und nichts erreicht – der Hamburger Weg"

Podcast: Make Economy Great Again
Hosts: Daniel Stelter & Ulf Poschardt (WELT)
Date: October 21, 2025

Overview:

This episode dives into the stagnation and decline of the German economy, with a pointed critique of recent political, cultural, and economic decisions, particularly the Hamburg climate referendum. The hosts explore why Germany keeps falling behind economically, the consequences of anti-growth and climate-first policies, and the failures of both the political and cultural elite. They discuss the need for economic reform, the societal and media climate stifling debate, and how misplaced priorities have sapped Germany's competitiveness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Germany’s Economic Decline & International Comparison

[03:57 – 07:06]

• Confirmation of Economic Stagnation:
  Recent IMF figures reinforce "Germany has become the reliable loser table in global economics" (Ulf, 04:46).
• Comparison to Other Countries:
  Countries like Poland, Spain, Italy, even Russia, are all surpassing Germany’s growth.
• Daniel points out, "Selbst Mexiko wurde nach oben revidiert, Frankreich wächst, Italien wächst – und wir? 0,2 Prozent, das ist fast unsichtbar." (Daniel, 05:55)

2. The Hamburg Climate Referendum: Symbol for Germany’s Woes

[07:18 – 13:37]

• Hamburg as Case Study:
  Hamburg’s decision to go net zero five years ahead of Germany (which itself is aiming five years earlier than the EU) is, according to Daniel, "völlig sinnbefreit [...] Prof. Manuel vom RWI hat ausgerechnet, dass es 57 Milliarden kostet und keinen Effekt hat" (Daniel, 10:03).
• Economics of Degrowth:
  Stelter stresses: "Es gibt keine Studie, die nachweist, dass Degrowth funktioniert." (Daniel, 12:10)
• Structural Impact:
  The city stands to lose both jobs and tax base, facing higher costs without global climate impact.

3. Cultural and Political Climate: The ‘Shitbürgertum’ and Decline of Discourse

[13:37 – 19:48 & 19:48 – 23:01]

• Cultural Dominance of Anti-Economics:
  Ulf portrays the Frankfurt Book Fair as emblematic: "Wie dort eine untergehende Welt sich selbst feiert, [...] dass es zu Ende geht." (Ulf, 13:53)
• Left’s Detachment from Economics:
  "Für alle linken Zuhörer, Karl Marx hat alles mit ökonomischen Analysen begonnen... die aktuelle Linke hat das verloren." (Ulf, 14:40)
• Failure of the Middle Class to Lead:
  "Das Bückbürgertum kriegt halt eins nach dem anderen serviert... die bürgerlichen ducken sich weg." (Ulf, 21:11)
• Media Aggressively Pro-Climate:
  "Die Medien befeuern das ja noch, das sind Propagandamaschinen." (Daniel, 19:30)

Notable Quotes:

• "Wer diesem Klimaentscheid gesinnungsethisch zustimmt, ist einfach zu dumm für Verantwortungsethik." (Ulf, 18:07)
• "Es braucht minus Zahlen bei den Wachstumsprognosen, damit das überhaupt thematisiert wird." (Daniel, 13:26)

4. How Geopolitics Undermines Germany’s Economy

[23:01 – 29:38]

• China’s Dual Approach:
  China supports worldwide climate politics but builds coal, nuclear, solar, and wind – seeking cheap energy for its own growth and weakening competitors:
  "Desto mehr du Klimapolitik möchtest, desto mehr Solarzellen kannst du verkaufen... und du schwächst deine Wettbewerber." (Daniel, 24:18)
• Historical Parallels:
  Citing Soviet strategies, Ulf notes, "Das Ziel war, die groteskesten Absurditäten im Diskurs einzuspeisen…" (Ulf, 26:12)
• Media, Discursive Weakness and Naiveté:
  Europe is geopolitically and economically naive, manipulated by foreign interests and internal dogmas.

5. Political Apathy and Structural Weakness

[29:38 – 32:46]

• Financial Responsibility Gaps:
  Hamburg expects federal (Bayern) funds to help pay for its reforms: "Die wollen unser Geld für ihre komische Politik." (Daniel, 29:38)
• Failure of Leadership:
  Both hosts criticize the lack of courage or clarity from the Hamburg SPD and centrist parties; the CDU and FDP are described as ineffective.

6. Germany’s Structural Foundation Problems: Energy, Education, and Demographics

[32:46 – 38:06]

• Historic Advantages Now Gone:
  Past prosperity from cheap energy, strong education, competent government – all eroded.
• Education Crisis:
  "Das ist ein absolutes Desaster" (Daniel, 33:38), citing the latest IQB trends showing declining math and science skills.
• Irreparable Damage to Pension System:
  The pay-as-you-go pension system is unsustainable under these conditions – compounded by new political promises (Daniel refers to extra costs of 15 billion per year until 2040, 36:08).

7. Youthful Resistance and Hope for Renewal

[38:06 – 42:28]

• Praise for Young Politicians:
  "Die Junge Union... so viele mutige Männer und Frauen am Werk, die haben den Kanal voll." (Ulf, 38:12)
• Critique of Status Quo:
  Young leftists accused of moral posturing, ignoring real solutions.
• Market Logic and Political Consequences:
  Only through electoral losses ("Marktanteilsverlust am Wählermarkt") can parties learn (Daniel, 41:04).

8. Wider Cultural and Policy Failures: Case Study Baden-Württemberg

[42:28 – 47:13]

• Ulf and Daniel discuss Winfried Kretschmann’s leadership and the "Abitur für alle"-approach as symbols of misguided policy, intellectual self-delusion, and missed reform.
• "Intellectual yet Idiot" – quoting Nassim Taleb for the German context (Daniel, 46:04).

9. Final Segment – "Ist das mega oder kann das weg?": On Berlin’s Neverending Baustellen

[47:19 – 49:57]

• The hosts lampoon Berlin's construction chaos and call for tangible action:
  "Baustellen sind mega, wenn 24-Stunden gearbeitet wird – sonst weg damit!" (Ulf, 48:07)
• Daniel proposes incentive-based construction bonuses to speed up public works (Daniel, 48:39).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Germany's Economic Rank:
  "Willst du Deutschland oben sehen, musst du die Tabelle umdrehen. Muss man nicht mehr, weil wir sind ganz oben – aber bei dem schlechtesten Wirtschaftswachstum der Welt."
  – Ulf, [01:47]
• On Degrowth:
  "Es gibt keine Studie, die nachweist, dass Degrowth funktioniert."
  – Daniel, [12:10]
• On Bourgeois Complacency:
  "Das Bückbürgertum kriegt halt eins nach dem anderen serviert."
  – Ulf, [21:11]
• On China’s Climate Strategy:
  "Jeder Euro, jede Renminbi, die die Chinesen in diese Richtung einsetzen, ist natürlich super investiertes Geld. Chapeau."
  – Daniel, [24:43]
• On Youth Movements:
  "Die Junge Union ... da sind so viele mutige Männer und Frauen am Werk, die haben den Kanal voll."
  – Ulf, [38:12]
• On Education Decline:
  "Du hast einen weiteren Absturz in der Bildung ... sie können nichts. Es ist ein Desaster."
  – Daniel, [33:38]
• On Berlin Baustellen:
  "Baustellen sind mega, wenn dort 24 Stunden am Tag gearbeitet wird. [...] Und wenn nicht gebaut wird, muss eigentlich die bürgerliche Guerilla mit SUVs diese Poller wegmachen."
  – Ulf, [47:32]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Context: [00:00 – 03:55]
• Economic Situation & IWF Ranking: [03:57 – 07:06]
• Hamburg Climate Decision / Degrowth: [07:06 – 13:37]
• Cultural Critique (Book Fair): [13:37 – 19:48]
• Role of Media / Political Apathy: [19:48 – 23:01]
• China & Geopolitical Gamesmanship: [23:01 – 29:38]
• Fiscal Irresponsibility & Political Failure: [29:38 – 32:46]
• Structural Flaws: Energy, Education, Demographics: [32:46 – 38:06]
• Pension Crisis & Youth Opposition: [38:06 – 42:28]
• Wider Cultural/Media Failure (Kretschmann & Baden-Württemberg): [42:28 – 47:13]
• "Ist das mega oder kann das weg?" (Baustellen): [47:19 – 49:57]

Conclusion & Tone

Throughout, the tone is sharp, polemical, and tinged with satire, frustration, but intermittent hope. Both hosts express clear exasperation with economic mismanagement, degrowth ideology, cowardly political elites, and the surrender of rational public debate. However, they find some optimism in civic resistance and younger political actors determined to challenge the mainstream.

For further thoughts or to join the debate, the hosts invite feedback at mega@welt.de.