Podcast Summary: Make Economy Great Again
Episode: Nie war Nationalpathos so geschmacklos
Date: December 10, 2025
Hosts: Ulf Poschardt (WELT) & Daniel Stelter (Ökonom)

Overview

In this episode, Ulf Poschardt and Daniel Stelter dissect the current malaise in Germany’s economy, focusing on the country’s deindustrialization, political mismanagement, and the disconnect between state-driven narratives and the real challenges facing businesses and workers. They critique the spectacle of "Nationalpathos" in German public broadcasting, highlight deeper structural problems (especially in industry and education), and compare German and European trajectories with the US and China. The episode moves from cultural critique to hard economic analysis, ending with a listener question on tax relief for over-60s.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Critique of the "100, was Deutschland bewegt" ARD TV Show

• [01:32–10:50]
  • Both hosts criticize a recent ARD show that tried to portray looming economic hardships and political dissatisfaction through a spectacle marked by “maximales Pathos” but lacking sincerity and substance.
  • Daniel Stelter: “Es hat mich schon geschockt. Ich bin schon für eine einfache Vermittlung der Wirtschaftszusammenhänge, aber ich bin nicht für so eine Art von Desinformation… Politik macht alles richtig. Die Tatsache ist, die Politik macht es nicht richtig.” [03:20]
  • The show allegedly oversimplifies economic remedies (“Wir hauen 500 Milliarden raus...Wir sind ein reiches Land, wir können es machen.”) without addressing inefficiency, misallocation, and soaring state debt.
  • Despite the show’s efforts, a majority of participants still felt Germany was not well-governed — a point both hosts view as positive, signaling reality cuts through propaganda.

2. On Nationalpathos and Aesthetic Misfires

• [05:35–10:39]
  • Ulf Poschardt: “Nie sah Nationalpathos so geschmacklos und billig aus. Und wir beide sind ja Internationalisten wie alle guten Freunde des Kapitalismus... Dieses Land unfähig ist, sich selbst mit irgendeiner Ästhetik zu versehen, die ansprechend ist.” [05:41]
  • German attempts at “patriotic pride” in media come across as forced and inauthentic, unlike in other countries.
  • Such displays, paired with "verblödete Etatismus Idee" (dull statism), reflect a failed model of economic and cultural self-confidence.

3. Disconnect Between Media, Politics, and Economic Reality

• [10:50–13:40]
  • The hosts relate a conversation with a public broadcaster who insisted that economic decline is well covered, but Stelter disagrees, citing superficial reporting.
  • Actual economic issues — loss of well-paid industrial jobs, state overreach, and deteriorating strongholds like Baden-Württemberg — are glossed over.
  • Daniel Stelter: “Die Tatsache, dass wir ungefähr Arbeitsplätze im Industriebereich verloren haben… das wird dann höchstens auf X von grünen Politikern aus Schleswig Holstein gefeiert…” [12:09]

4. Stuttgart: Symbol of Crisis and Misplaced Priorities

• [16:18–21:41]
  • Stuttgart, formerly a symbol of industrial and cultural strength, now demonstrates the fallout from anti-industrial policies and unrealistic climate goals.
  • Social spending explodes while cities face declining tax revenues, primarily due to “Selbstzerstörung der wirtschaftlichen Grundlage.”
  • Daniel Stelter: “Man protestiert gegen das Auto und wundert sich hinterher, dass man keine Steuereinnahmen mehr hat, mehr weil man Autos herstellt. Das ist im Prinzip die Kurzfassung dessen, was passiert ist.” [20:15]
  • The hosts emphasize the real human costs — unemployment, falling property values, and regional decline.

5. Structural Problems, Corporate Bankruptcies, and Political Response

• [25:10–29:39]
  • Record-high insolvencies and job losses especially hit the Mittelstand (SMEs), the backbone of the German economy.
  • Political and media indifference keeps the public “ökonomisch unmündig” (economically uninformed), with public debate disconnected from real economic indicators.
  • The episode references Jamie Dimon's (JP Morgan CEO) and Donald Trump’s assessments that Europe is losing global standing through anti-business and anti-innovation policies.
  • Ulf Poschardt: “Der Niedergang hat damit zu tun, es gibt they driving business out, they're driving innovation out.” [26:29]

6. Self-inflicted Economic Wounds and Political Denial

• [28:38–34:36]
  • Stelter details that job loss is not merely “normaler Strukturwandel” but results from deliberate policies — expensive energy, rising labor costs, and excessive regulation.
  • Cites rising insolvencies and the policy response: politicians blame the opposition (e.g., Dröge blaming Merz), conveniently forgetting their own record and previous slogans like “Erlebe dein grünes Wirtschaftswunder.”
  • References to failed EU goals (Lisbon 2000–2010, Horizon 2020), highlighting how Europe has fallen behind in R&D, patents, and top universities.
  • Daniel Stelter: “Wir werden nach unten durchgereicht. J. B. Dimon hat es gesagt und natürlich hat Donald Trump recht.” [34:36]

7. The American Perspective and Europe's Decline

• [35:19–38:34]
  • US strategic papers and Trump’s blunt rhetoric serve as a wake-up call, urging Europe and Germany to restore economic and defense capabilities if they want to be relevant international partners.
  • Both hosts lament the political reflex to blame Trump rather than engage with substantive criticism.
  • Ulf Poschardt: “Wir leben in einer Dada Welt… Mal ganz ehrlich, um das alles zu machen, braucht es einfach Wirtschaft, Wirtschaft, Wirtschaft.” [36:32]

8. Public Perception, Political Rhetoric, and the Shrinking Public Sphere

• [38:34–44:12]
  • Moral posturing by the Green Party and other progressives is increasingly disconnected from reality and appears to lose public resonance.
  • The hosts liken current political communication to authoritarian regimes’ propaganda — abundant in symbolism, weak in substance.
  • Despite the official optimism or denial, signs of system failure are everywhere (“Abschiedstour”).
  • Ulf Poschardt: “Diese Art von Haltung, die haben wir jetzt lange genug durchexerziert. Ich glaube, es hält nicht mehr.” [43:37]
  • Even as both are somewhat pessimistic about elite self-reflection, they note pockets of clear-headedness (e.g., Wolfgang Ischinger, some security experts).

9. Mega oder kann das weg? — Listener Question: Tax Breaks After 60

• [44:36–45:31]
  • A listener asks whether payroll deductions for over-60s should be abolished as an incentive for longer work lives.
  • Daniel Stelter: Sympathetic but advocates for a broader lowering of taxes and social contributions, not just for over-60s but system-wide reforms.
  • Ulf Poschardt: More personal take, supporting tax breaks for over-60s, at least for those with long contribution histories, as a just reward for the “Fleißigen.”
    • “Make flies [Anm.: die Fleißigen, die Tüchtigen] great again.” [45:43]

Memorable Quotes

• Ulf Poschardt [05:41]: “Nie sah Nationalpathos so geschmacklos und billig aus... Dieses Land unfähig ist, sich selbst mit irgendeiner Ästhetik zu versehen, die ansprechend ist.”
• Daniel Stelter [03:20]: “Ich bin schon für eine einfache Vermittlung der Wirtschaftszusammenhänge, aber ich bin nicht für so eine Art von Desinformation.”
• Daniel Stelter [20:15]: “Man protestiert gegen das Auto und wundert sich hinterher, dass man keine Steuereinnahmen mehr hat...”
• Ulf Poschardt [26:29]: “Der Niedergang hat damit zu tun, es gibt they driving business out, they're driving innovation out.”
• Daniel Stelter [34:36]: “Wir werden nach unten durchgereicht. J. B. Dimon hat es gesagt und natürlich hat Donald Trump recht.”
• Ulf Poschardt [43:37]: “Diese Art von Haltung, die haben wir jetzt lange genug durchexerziert. Ich glaube, es hält nicht mehr.”
• Daniel Stelter [45:18]: “Es muss für alle attraktiver sein, mehr zu arbeiten.”
• Ulf Poschardt [45:43]: “Make flies great again.” (Wortspiel mit “die Fleißigen” und “Fleiß”)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:32] Start: Critique of ARD’s “100, was Deutschland bewegt”
• [05:35] On unhealthy Nationalpathos and failed national aesthetics
• [10:50] The reality of economic decline vs. official narratives
• [16:18] Stuttgart as case study for economic policy failures
• [25:10] Rising insolvencies, the Mittelstand crisis, US/Trump perspective
• [28:38] Discussion: deliberate vs. natural economic transition
• [34:36] R&D, failed EU ambitions, and falling global standing
• [38:34] The rift between political rhetoric and economic reality
• [44:36] Listener Question: Should payroll taxes for 60+ be scrapped?

Tone & Language

The hosts’ style is pointed, sarcastic, and polemical, with frequent cultural and political analogies. There is a clear sense of frustration over what they see as willful ignorance in media and politics, coupled with sharp, sometimes humorous, critiques of “show patriotism,” bureaucratic inertia, and vested interests. While offering periodic hope for “Wandel zum Besseren,” both are skeptical that current elites will take the necessary steps soon.

Conclusion

This episode delivers a critical—sometimes scathing—diagnosis of Germany's economic and political malaise, highlighting the dangers of self-delusion and performative politics. The hosts call for a renewed focus on real economic fundamentals, less ideology, and more honesty in both public debate and policymaking.

For feedback or topic suggestions, email mega@welt.de.