Podcast Summary: Make Economy Great Again

Episode: "Ökonomen im Check, Teil 2: Wer erklärt die Welt – und wer nur die eigene Agenda?"

• Host: WELT (primarily Ulf Poschardt, "A")
• Guest: Economist Daniel Stelter ("C")
• Date: July 30, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode is the second part of a deep-dive series into famous economists, focusing on who truly explains the world versus who merely represents their own agenda. Against the backdrop of Germany’s economic stagnation and industrial malaise, hosts Ulf Poschardt and Daniel Stelter rank and dissect their top and least favorite economists—both current and historical. They explore what makes an impactful economist in a time of crisis, with substantial discussion on communication, influence on policy, and real-world results. The episode is rich in personal anecdotes, meta-discussion about the role of economists in public discourse, and sharp (often humorous) commentary on the most visible figures in economic thought.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Crisis of German Economics (00:22–02:09)

• Consensus: Urgent need for change in Germany’s economic direction.
• Critique of fashionable trends: Work-life balance and four-day weeks seen as insufficient for safeguarding prosperity.
• Emphasis on lifelong learning and curiosity; acknowledgment of interdisciplinary benefits—philosophy meets economics.

2. Framing of the Episode's Structure (02:09–05:34)

• The hosts set up “current Top 3, historical Top 3, and Worst 3/‘most interesting’ economists.”
• Explicit focus on subjectivity and deliberate inclusion of “Darsteller”—economists as communicators or even performers.

3. The "Rockstar Economist": Javier Milei (05:34–15:21)

• Milei as a Popstar Economist:
  • Uncommon for economists to achieve mass appeal—Milei does thanks to his unique persona and communication style (rock musician past, viral videos).
• Milei’s Real-World Impact:
  • Praised for moving from theory to political practice with impressive speed and unexpected success in Argentina.
  • Admired for sticking to his values (Austrian School) and directly confronting state dysfunction.
  • Quote, Stelter: "Ich bewundere Milei dafür, dass er gesagt, okay, ich bin überzeugt von einer bestimmten Sichtweise auf die Welt [...] Ich gehe in die Politik, Chapeau." (06:06)
  • Poschardt draws a parallel to Marx’s famous thesis and argues Milei demonstrates, “Die Ökonomen haben die Welt nur verschieden interpretiert, es kommt darauf an, sie zu verändern.” (08:21)
• Milei’s Communication Mastery:
  • Adapts his rhetoric to every stage—from aggressive TV debates to nuanced, manifesto-like Davos talks.
  • Quote, Poschardt: "Der hat jetzt auf verschiedenen Bühnen...immer weiß, welches Sprachspiel nötig ist, um den maximalen Impact kommunikativ zu haben." (12:31)
• Philosophical and Historical Ties:
  • Links Milei’s arguments and rhetoric to Schumpeter, Hayek, and Max Weber; underscores the dangers of state overreach as highlighted in "Der Weg zur Knechtschaft."
  • Denounces “Davos Bubble” hypocrisy.
  • Stelter: “Er hat die richtigen Weichenstellungen getroffen und das ist eine super Leistung.” (07:46)

4. Criteria for Evaluating Economists (15:26–16:58)

• Discussion about subjective rankings—based on communication skills, societal impact, clear reasoning.
• Note that not all good economists are in the public eye—academic achievement ≠ mass influence.

5. Thomas Piketty & Leftist Economic Thought (16:58–24:03)

• Piketty’s "Das Kapital im 21. Jahrhundert":
  • Recognized for setting a media agenda on wealth inequality.
  • Critiqued for neglecting root causes—especially the role of debt/leverage, focusing instead on redistributionist outcomes.
  • Stelter: "Er hat das Wort Schulden in seinem ganzen Buch nicht drin." (18:29)
  • “Er ist der Beweis, wie du agieren kannst...mit der gewünschten Message beginnst und dann darauf basierend die Sachen zusammenträgst.” (20:19)
• Influence and Critique:
  • Poschardt lampoons Piketty’s status as a French “Public Intellectual,” noting his personal scandals, popularity among "progressive" elites, and lack of substantive policy impact.
  • "Jemand wie Piketty tourt dann halt auf den Ruinen, auf den Leichenbergen des Sozialismus...All dieser Schrott ist gone." (22:33)
• Recurring motif: Political and communicative environments shape which economists are celebrated (and why).

6. Celebration of Thomas Sowell (24:24–30:36)

• Sowell’s Evolution:
  • Transitioned from Marxism to classical liberalism—his answer as to why: "Facts." (26:29)
  • Sees knowledge as decentralized; skeptical of the state as an efficient economic actor.
  • Praised for his clarity, independence, and humor: "Der lacht so wahnsinnig über sich selbst...diese totale Souveränität und Selbstironie." (28:58)
• Sowell’s Most Cited Ideas:
  • Social issues, especially about race, often approached with contrarian—or at least non-mainstream—viewpoints (e.g., arguing that Black poverty in the US is not about racism but cultural and educational factors).
  • Memorable Quote, Sowell: "If you want to help people, tell them the truth. If you want to help yourself, tell them what they want to hear." (30:11, paraphrased by Stelter)

7. Historical Greats: German Economic Foundations (31:15–33:24)

• Walter Eucken & Ordoliberalism:
  • Eucken is lauded as the father of Social Market Economy, emphasizing regulatory frameworks over state intervention.
  • Ludwig Erhard celebrated for implementing Eucken’s principles and "liberating" postwar Germany's economic policy.
  • "Er hat gesagt, die Wirtschaft sollte möglichst frei sein, der Staat sollte sich nicht einmischen, [...] ausgleichend agieren, um das Soziale abzufedern. Und damit ist er eigentlich der Vater der Sozialen Marktwirtschaft." (31:44)

8. The Influence and Flaws of Contemporary German Economists (35:58–38:49)

• Veronika Grimm, Moritz Schularick, and Stefan Kooths:
  • Identified for strong research (esp. Schularick: financial crises) and clear, affect-free communication.
  • Wishes expressed for broader public presence.
  • Political considerations and media reluctance possibly shape visibility.

9. Economics as Performance: The "Worst"/Most Notorious Economists (39:02–46:51)

• Marcel Fratzscher:
  • Accused of predictable results matching political expectations (SPD), sometimes at odds with his own institute's findings.
  • Example: Alarmism over "shrinking middle class" (40:13) and refugee/economic benefits (2015).
  • Calls for media transparency—in acknowledging the biases of supposed “neutral” economists.
• Claudia Kemfert:
  • Criticized for activism that, according to hosts, ignores physical and economic realities around the German energy transition; pushes “Scientists for Future” as end of rigorous science (46:51).
  • “Diese Gratwanderung gelingt ihr leider schlecht…bemerkenswerte Überheblichkeit, die dann doch von relativ wenig gebackt ist.” (47:41)
• Achim Truger:
  • Briefly mentioned as an often-discussed example; criticism not revisited in detail in this episode.

10. Concluding Perspectives (49:04–50:16)

• The Limits & Value of Economics:
  • Acknowledges the inherent subjectivity, bias, and fallibility of economists.
  • Argues for rewarding active “truth-seeking” and critical public engagement over those pushing predetermined agendas.
  • “Es ist nicht so, dass man sich hinsetzen kann und kann. Die Ökonomen sagen es doch auch so, Denn es beginnt damit, dass der Ökonom selber biased ist…” (49:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Stelter (on Milei): "Ich finde, das verdient quasi den Sonderpreis bei uns für jemanden, der einfach gewagt hat, es in die Praxis umzusetzen. Und das finde ich wirklich beeindruckend..." (07:00)
• Poschardt (on Piketty’s reception): "Sag mir, wer deine Freunde sind und ich sag dir, wer du bist. [...] Wenn die was gut finden, ist es scheiße." (20:35)
• Stelter (on public economists): "Ich finde, Ökonomen sollten viel mehr in den Medien stattfinden. Nur die Medien sollten aufhören, immer die Ökonomen als neutral darzustellen. So was gibt es in dem Sinne nicht." (41:01)
• Poschardt (on Scientist activism): "Scientists for Future heißt einfach, wer Scientist for Future ist, ist halt Teil von Fridays for Future, aber kein Scientist mehr." (47:21)
• Stelter (on the "truth seekers"): "Wir sollten die belohnen, die auf der Suche sind nach der Wahrheit der Versuche sind, sofern man sie finden kann, und die höher bewerten als diejenigen, die eher gleich mit Meinungen starten und diese in die Öffentlichkeit tragen." (49:55)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:22–02:09: Introduction & German economic context
• 05:34–15:21: Javier Milei discussion, global and communicative impact
• 16:58–24:03: Piketty, leftist economics, and criticism of public intellectuals
• 24:24–30:36: Thomas Sowell’s worldview and impact
• 31:15–33:24: Eucken, Erhard, Ordoliberalism and the roots of German prosperity
• 35:58–38:49: Contemporary German economists – strengths and limitations
• 39:02–46:51: Marcel Fratzscher and Claudia Kemfert as “mediagenic activists”
• 49:04–50:16: Closing reflections on economic science, subjectivity, and truth-seeking

Overall Tone & Style

The episode is lively, highly opinionated, and often tongue-in-cheek—balancing deep respect for economic science with skepticism toward media-driven hero worship and activism disguised as scholarship. The chemistry between Poschardt and Stelter is marked by mutual admiration, rapid-fire exchange, and playful barbs at rivals and “public intellectuals,” with broader commentaries on German society, politics, and the nature of economics.

For the Listener:

If you want a blend of economics, media criticism, and personality analysis—plus plenty of laughs—this episode delivers. You’ll leave with a nuanced sense of which contemporary and historic economists shape (and sometimes warp) the economic debate, why communication matters, and why “truth-seeking” is the most valuable quality of all.