Podcast Summary: Make Economy Great Again

Episode: Wie Steuerpolitik Leistungsträger vertreibt – ein Blick auf UK und Deutschland
Date: June 26, 2025
Host: WELT (main speakers: Daniel Stelter, Ökonom; Ulf Poschardt, WELT-Herausgeber)

Main Theme and Purpose

In this episode, Daniel Stelter and Ulf Poschardt address the decline of Germany’s economic competitiveness, focusing on misguided industrial and tax policies, the exodus of high earners and capital, and the fate of welfare and redistribution politics. The hosts analyze recent events in the steel industry, compare UK and German tax regimes, and discuss the broader consequences of political choices on economic prosperity and social cohesion.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Green Steel, Subsidies, and Standortnachteil (Start: 01:00)

• ArcelorMittal's German Dilemma:
  Despite €1.3 billion in subsidies meant to support “green” steel projects at Bremen and Eisenhüttenstadt, ArcelorMittal halts their German transformation—deeming reduced CO₂ steel production economically unviable.

  • Reasons: Investment uncertainty, cheap CO₂-intensive import steel (especially from China), and sky-high electricity costs in Germany.
  • The company chooses to invest in France instead, thanks to cheaper nuclear power.

• Daniel Stelter’s Analysis (03:19–08:18):
  Stelter cites a Potsdam Institute study demonstrating Germany’s systemic disadvantage in energy-intensive industries due to high power prices and unfavorable renewables geography.

  • Key Stats:
    • Steel: 18–32% cost disadvantage
    • Harnstoff: up to 55%
    • Ethylen: up to 60%
  • Maintaining competitive production would require unsustainable annual subsidies of up to €18 billion—just for three base industries.
  • Quote [07:39, Stelter]:
    „Es macht keinen Sinn... Kein Land, kein Staat hält dauerhaft diese Subventionen durch... Wir haben diese Industrien verloren.“

• Political Blindness:
  Ulf highlights the irony that even strong proponents of climate policy now acknowledge the limits of German industrial transformation—a point earlier ignored by politicians.

  • Quote [08:18, Poschardt]:
    „Wenn so eine Studie rauskommt, müsste es dann nicht... den apokalyptischen Klimawissenschaftlern eigentlich deutlich machen...?“

2. Deindustrialisierung und Politische Verantwortung (09:29–15:15)

• Germany’s Energy Policy Failures:

  • Shutting down coal and nuclear plants leaves Germany with costly, unreliable energy—pushing industry away.
  • Stelter:
    „Wir müssen aufhören, an den Symptomen herumzudoktern... machen wir so weiter, können wir uns von energieintensiver Basisindustrie komplett verabschieden“ [11:13].

• Culture of Denial and Blame-shifting:

  • Rather than face the structural causes, German politicians pretend to be surprised and blame others.
  • Poschardt skewers the cultural dominance of „Ökoträumer und Antikapitalisten“—a “heroic self-sacrifice” that no other country will imitate.
    • Quote [12:48, Poschardt]:
      „Wenn ich Antideutscher wäre, würde ich sagen, danke Deutschland, weil niemand... wird dem deutschen Weg nachfolgen.“

3. Labour Victory in UK: Tax Policy and the Millionaire Exodus (17:25–28:13)

• UK: End of Non-Dom Tax Status & Outflow of Wealth:

  • New Labour tax reforms drove out more wealthy individuals in 2025 than any nation, with 66 Billion pounds in capital fleeing mainly to the UAE, US, and, notably, Italy.
  • Germany is also losing millionaires (400 recently), indicating a trend beyond the UK.
  • Quote [21:15, Stelter]:
    „Rein statistisch stimmt es natürlich, wenn die Millionäre weg sind, dann wird die Vermögensverteilung in deinem Land gleicher ... wir nähern uns damit einem sozialistischen Ziel.“

• Broader Takeaway:

  • Tax hikes and hostile social climates drive the most mobile, productive citizens elsewhere—benefiting competitor nations (Italy, UAE).
  • Strong warning: Most punitive policies hit “kleine Reiche”, as the ultra-wealthy can shield themselves.

4. Germany’s Missed Opportunity: Attracting Talent and Capital (28:13–32:51)

• Should Germany Court High Earners?

  • Poschardt argues for German tax policy to attract fleeing UK millionaires, not drive them away.
  • Cultural envy and high tax rates, especially in the “gehobene Mittelschicht,” prevent Germany from becoming attractive to global talent.
  • Quote [29:37, Poschardt]:
    „Ein Land ist scheußlich, in dem die Reichen gehen. Jeden Tag wird... eine Stadt, Einkaufszonen, die bürgerlichen Wohnviertel werden scheußlicher, wenn die Reichen gehen.“

• Italian Example:
  Italy demonstrates successful, competitive tax policies within the EU—proving such competition is possible even in highly regulated environments.

5. Sozialpolitik, Bürgergeld und Sanktionsfreiheit (32:51–38:24)

• Debate: Raising Welfare Without Conditions

  • Focus on Marcel Fratzscher (DIW): He argues against welfare sanctions and for a significant Bürgergeld increase (~44% higher)—based on questionable studies.

  • Criticism from Stelter:

    • Study not representative—over-reported native Germans as respondents.
    • Empirical evidence (from Germany and Switzerland) shows that sanctions do work.
    • Linking welfare to mandatory, successful language courses is suggested.

  • Budget Crisis:
    Exploding social spending and escalating debt—while investment plummets and the state becomes ever more consumption-oriented.

    • Quote [36:24, Stelter]:
      „Wir machen Schulden, Schulden, Schulden... Das Geld... führt dazu, dass nicht reformiert wird.“

6. Cultural and Generational Consequences (38:24–41:42)

• Political and Elite Disconnect:

  • Many intellectuals (even “die klügsten Vertreter dieser Linken”) show no interest in economic realities.
  • The looming consequences: capital flight, a shrinking productive class, and growing burdens on the young.

• Venezuela Parallel:

  • Stelter: “Erst gehen die Millionäre, dann gehen die anderen... Das siehst du in Venezuela” [41:35].

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• Stelter [07:39]:
  „Kein Land, kein Staat hält dauerhaft diese Subventionen durch... Wir haben diese Industrien verloren.“

• Poschardt [12:48]:
  „Wenn ich Antideutscher wäre, würde ich sagen, danke Deutschland, weil niemand... wird dem deutschen Weg nachfolgen.“

• Stelter [21:15]:
  „Rein statistisch stimmt es natürlich, wenn die Millionäre weg sind, dann wird die Vermögensverteilung in deinem Land gleicher ... wir nähern uns damit einem sozialistischen Ziel.“

• Poschardt [29:37]:
  „Ein Land ist scheußlich, in dem die Reichen gehen. Jeden Tag wird... eine Stadt, Einkaufszonen, die bürgerlichen Wohnviertel werden scheußlicher, wenn die Reichen gehen.“

• Stelter [36:24]:
  „Wir machen Schulden, Schulden, Schulden... Das Geld... führt dazu, dass nicht reformiert wird.“

“Ist das mega oder kann das weg?” – Cent Coins (42:02–44:54)

A lighter closing segment debates whether small coins should be abolished:

• Stelter: Nostalgic about physical money—argues that cash enables more conscious consumption and connects to traditions like wedding shoe funds.
• Poschardt: Prefers digital payments, finds little sentimental value in coins except as charity for street musicians; recalls childhood habits of saving coins.

The tone diverges from tough economic analysis to humorous nostalgia, highlighting generational differences and the broader theme of adapting to change.

Conclusion

This episode weaves through current German and British economic-political missteps, warning of the real-world consequences when ideology trumps pragmatism. Both hosts urge that to “Make Economy Great Again,” Germany must embrace realism—lowering the tax burden, investing wisely, and resisting envy-driven policy—lest it continue its decline and fail to attract or retain the world’s most productive people. The lively, pointed discussion is peppered with sarcasm, deep frustration at policy failures, and a call for common sense to return to economic debate.