← Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick
Makes Sense - with Dr. JC Doornick
The Architecture of Proximity Power: Opening Elite Doors and Strategic Advisory with Richard Dolan - Episode 141
00:57:49
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A
Lifelock.
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B
How can I help? The IRS said I filed my return, but I haven't. One in four tax paying Americans has paid the price of identity fraud.
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C
What do I do?
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B
My refund though. I'm freaking out. Don't worry, I can fix this. Lifelock fixes identity theft guaranteed and gets your money back with up to $3 million in coverage. I'm so relieved. No problem. I'll be with you every step of the way. One in four was a fraud paying American. Not anymore. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com Specialoffer terms apply. You're right. I think we don't misunderstand. I think we lack the understanding. I mean, I had to look up the word influence just to make sure we're speaking from the same song sheet. And by definition, it's the capacity to have an effect on the character development or behavior of someone or something or the effect itself. So it really is Dragon, the power to shape policy to ensure a favorable treatment from someone, or especially through status or contacts.
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A
Have you noticed that the world that we live in has been doing most of the thinking for you? That your beliefs, perceptions, reactions, fears and doubts have been shaped by unsolicited outside noise? How easy it's been for you to slip into that default sleepwalking mode and label it as life and reality? Yeah, that ends here. Welcome to the make sense with Dr. JC podcast. This is your opportunity to start thinking for yourself, reclaim control, and step back into that role as the shot caller and dominant force of your own reality. It's when you change the way that you look at things that the things that you look at begin to change. So let's wake up, let's rise up, and let's make sense of why and how shift happens.
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B
Makes sense.
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A
Welcome to the what I call the Dragon's Lair. Welcome to the make sense with Dr. J.C. podcast. Mr. Richard Dolan. It's nice to have you here.
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B
Good to be back in your presence, bro.
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A
Yeah, I'm so excited about this. And just to make sure that I lay the stage for how I met this guy, you know, we were kind of talking back, you know, before we even went live here, and I'm only really interested in interesting things and people. And what's interesting about you is that my initial interest, before I really even knew who you were, I never go by what I heard about people, but I heard you're a pretty extravagant person. You know, I was pretty excited to meet you in that sense, but we met more on the level of Friends and I got to meet you. And this is going to fit very nicely into our conversation today. It makes perfect sense why you've met all these extraordinary and powerful people, because I experienced that, just sitting with you and talking to you and just meeting you as a human being and then learning about all of your achievements. After I didn't study up on Richard Dolan before I came to co MC a show with him, I just figured you were like me, had the gift of gab. But there was so much behind that. So it's an honor and a privilege to meet you. Now, in this context, where I've actually taken the time to learn a lot about what you've accomplished, well, you know.
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B
It says, first of all, thank you so much. I mean, it's. It's not every day you get to collaborate with people and play on the same playground as they do and circle back and truly look forward to doing so. It's rare. We all are zipping through life and we exchange cards and we tap phones and. And we link each other up on platforms and all these other intermediaries. But you truly do have a heart that wishes to remain connected to people that matter. And for that I. I truly appreciate. So thanks for the invite and those kind words. I'm so grateful to be here, man.
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A
I'll be sure after this conversation to call my acting coach and tell him that it was money well spent. I want to get into rather than saying, richard, how did you get started? I kind of want to take in a different context, but Richard Dolan is somebody that, if you meet him in the context of hearing him speak, he's a wonderful speaker. And as I've shared with you, he's a wonderful friend. And he's. He's just got so many attributes of the kind of person that you'd like to call friend and also, you know, mentor and things like that. But the first thing that hits you when you look at his sizzle reel or anything that he's done is he's just somehow, and we're going to dig into this somehow, not only gotten in the room with some extraordinary, iconic, powerful and influential people. And I'm talking about the kind of people that even if you've had a successful run at meeting people, these are not the kind of people that you meet, but somehow here's this guy, Richard Dolan, and he's got pictures that kind of look like the end scene of Hangover. You know, he's hanging out with these people in the sense that he knows these people and I'm talking about big people. So I want to start off by talking about this concept of proximity influence. Let me lay this on you because I've done a lot of research on this and I think this is what everybody's going to love. Obviously you've operated for decades now inside I guess what people would call like high stakes relationships and environments and met all these people like including presidents, champions and global decision makers and things like this. So this is what I'd like to kick this off with when people ask questions, because that's what people want to know is how do I do it? How do I do it? When people ask questions about how to build what I call high value connections, we're going to refer to them as that. Do you think that they misunderstand what proximity influence actually is? And what. I want to make sure everybody understands what that means. What I mean by that, by proximity influence is both physically and psychologically being within the presence of people, but also aligned with people. So if you could just speak to that any way you see fit.
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B
I think you're right. I think we don't misunderstand. I think we lack the understanding. I mean, I had to look up the word influence just to make sure we're speaking from the same song sheet. And by definition it's the capacity to have an effect on the character development or behavior of someone or something or the effect itself. So it really is dragon the power to shape policy to ensure a favorable treatment from someone or especially through status or contacts. And if there's one real trait I've come to learn to not only fortify, but to also build a lot of personal and professional prowess with is influence. So I know that influence by extension is a function of self responsibility. And self responsibility is of course the extension of just self awareness. So for people that are not really self aware and therefore aren't self governing and therefore aren't self leading like they're relying on other people to tell them what to do. And they're. They're waiting for other people to show them the way. They're not really the author of what comes next. They're really, quite frankly the words on a page being told what's coming. Then you miss the phenomenon of being at the effect of influence and also causing and creating influence. So what I love that influence really is if you were to look at the a wheel, the very center I would assert influence is not at the center, you are. And how influence is actually experienced by you and by others both in your life in the Life of those around you, of you and with you is like really the wheel. And all those spokes are ways in which you're experienced that then influences a person and their experience of life in you itself. So as you said earlier on in my introduction. Yes. If you see me on a stage and you hear me speak and I might influence you, that's just one experience of me. Me as in here I am Richard Dolan. And as a result of experiencing me as a speaker, I've shaped, recontoured or impacted you through influencing you from that experience. That, that one realm, if I dare go deep for a moment, that one realm of experiencing me as a human. Does that make sense? Did that speak to your question?
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A
Yeah, totally. And this concept of becoming attractive, you know, it's one thing to be physically attractive, but I'm assuming when we get into some of the stories that you gotta be in the room where it happens and there's other components to meeting these people, but it's when they feel your energy and they meet you, you know, your vibe attracts your tribe. When they feel the degree of your self responsibility and things like that. I mean, I can tell you just from my personal experience, I was subjected to that with you. When you meet somebody and you have an opportunity to get to know them, that's where the deal is done. So I'm sure that we're going to deep dive into that.
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B
Well, but just to riff off it without affording you the leadership opportunity because this is your show on that, this is your show, this is our show. So here's what I love about what you said, is that when you speak to the fact that we both got to experience each other as CO MCs of an event, our dear friend Jim Quick at the Limitless live event back in San Diego. You got to see how I will engage a person I need to introduce. But in that moment, how can I make it a personally moving moment for me and for them? Consistent with your point around influence, a catalyst to influence is proximity. And when you have the two together, I would assert that it catalyzes your shift to the responsibility of that. It's kind of like having friends over at your place and you're about to celebrate a holiday or a gathering and they end up having a really shitty time. Well, proximity, if you didn't catch it, is actually the gift. It's the catalyst to the responsibility for shaping their experience of you. So introducing a person on stage for me becomes a massive responsibility that showcases who they are as much as it showcases who I am, and even the why I'm here. So you. Because the way you are, the way you roll and who you've become in this world and could be counted on for, you're watching that. And I can see that you're watching that because you do this too, as a fellow speaker and an alchemist of mankind and a great curator of great insight and conversations. So I just want to make sure I put that in place, that we were both in awe of each other, because it's very rare to have two people do what we do as we do very similarly.
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A
Yeah, we'll get into it. But I think a lot of people, you know, they think that the key is to get past the gatekeepers and things like that. But if you do succeed at that, and there's strategies of doing that, it's not until you're in the presence of somebody that you feel their. Their vibration, their frequency. So I want to go deeper into something that I think is super cool. Like I'm. I'm referring to you now as the architect of access. I mean, think about that. You know, it's one thing to be somebody that has access, but I like to say, oh, that's my buddy Richard. He is the architect of access. I wish I knew about that when I introduced you at the show. So I want to go into this architecture of proximity, power. That being said, so in your experience, what separates people who are near power from people like you, Richard Dolan, that are actually opening up elite doors, I want to identify because once again, you can get close, but it's only a certain characteristic of vibration or an energy that actually opens these doors. Because when we get into the. These stories, people will probably blindly think that you were lucky or somebody hooked you up with something, and there's something to be said about that. But I've heard your stories before, and it's like you're just sitting down, eating dinner with your family sometimes, and all of a sudden this whole cascade of events happens. Once again, what's the difference between somebody that gets near that proximity of power and somebody that actually opens up the door?
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B
So I think the short answer is to have the courage to engage your sense and relationship to creating what could be next not just for yourself, but that other. I mean, that. That's the short answer. A longer answer, though, and I think I can be afforded this since it's apparently my show is. Is. My son recently asked me this, and the older he got, the more often I found himself asking me just questions of how did I come to meet this person and how did you get to work with that person? And what was it like working with those people and what they're two of these. Because as he's grown in his age, of course now, you know, in university and looking at his own life from the whole, he can't help but look at the template in which I am for him to say, hey, what can I learn from my dad? So it forced me to really do a little bit of not only diarization, but also inventorization of just like how did I get to do all that?
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A
Right?
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B
And so it's been an incredible experience, brother. And as a father, as you are, are two dads just chatting here. And I think for any parent, you'll appreciate this. Telling my story of how I came to be was cool. So here's where it comes. So as my son's asking me, and I get into a metaphor form right now, if he's asking me about how to describe the foreign lands I discovered, the more interesting conversation is how did I even step foot on a boat when there was no one in my family that can sail? Like there was no one in my family that had a boat metaphorically who knew how to sail the world and become explorers. How did I, from a broken family who were dirt broke in the inner city, end up on a ship to begin with, to journey the world hundreds of times over to discover these incredible exotic new discovered lands that have never been seen before. The icons, the legends and the gods of commerce and culture, I've come to call them, or what you'd call celebrity. So when I got to understand how I came to be, I really appreciated how I became for you to know that is to know this, that coming into proximity with people that I thought were only reserved for the rich and the powerful, neither of which I was. And to have done that once and all it took was once. As the old saying goes, it only takes a match to light a forest fire. It only took that one time for me to say, huh, I wonder if that was a fluke. Let's try that again. And to repeat the process of circumstances and star alignment recognition and putting myself in that place that was really hyper uncomfortable. And I wasn't quite sure if I would be longer be discovered and to do it again. I realized that getting into proximity with those who were rich and powerful, it wasn't a pass of freedom and it wasn't just chance. It was designed and it was my design. So that's how I came to come into the orbiting of people of Power and those of wealth, whether they were icons and legends, whether they were politicians or heads of state, whether they were actresses or, you know, super athletes, and the list goes on based on that. It was just a personal discovery that a kid who came from the inner city and that should not have been able to have been permitted in that place, in that spot, in that position was granted access. I went off to rinse and repeat that for decades. The difference is, and the story will come next perhaps is what I did with that access is what's even more magical. But I think it's important for you to know, my fellow dragon. That's really what started it. I, I did come from humble beginnings. I'm a high school dropout by design. I since went back to school and taught at university levels programs on wealth management and financial services. I was a statistical impossibility. I should not have been able to be in the proximity of four US Presidents or tour alongside of Oprah Winfrey, or work alongside a Drake or reinvent a Mike Tyson. Like these things are impossible to imagine. If you put me back all those years ago and say imagine you're going to be and imagine you're going to go and imagine you're going to have clients in the royal family, imagine I would have said that's impossible. Look at who I am, look at where I come from. So I think what I love about what you're saying, in short is proximity is a phenomenon that is available to us all. The difference is, is are you able to see it, seize it and then mobilize it, commercialize it, even dare monetize it? Is that fair?
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A
Yeah, it's so fascinating. You're doing it to me again. You're making me think and, and recognize, like totally throwing me off track. That's what I love about you.
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B
This is exactly my master plan.
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A
Well, I say that all human beings are similar in the sense that they all want the same things. We all want to be happier, healthier and wealthier. So I call human beings, I say we're seekers of the earth, we all want more. But wanting and desiring and needing and must having and stuff are just points of reference. But it's very few people that navigate how to cross the bridge. So I think that what I'm hearing you say is it, it first required some sort of a desire or interest to have some of this happen. I mean if you never have a point of reference, you'll probably never look that way. But I heard courage do have to have some courage to do something that you're not sure you can do, then you have to have the insight to recognize that you have some powers that you were unaware of, you know, that you didn't know about because nobody had been on that ship before. So you actually were on that ship, but you just didn't know it until it actually like sailed a little bit.
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B
And, and by the way, just to riff off you, and you'll appreciate this because you're, you're a musician on, on this temperature of life is that we all have superpowers. So, so I feel like that, that I had a scene years ago and we've seen it in many comic book character based shows, films and storylines where someone is living an ordinary life against all odds. And in a peculiar way, something happens. They discover they've got the superpower and what ends up transpiring from there. Do you remember? They resist it. Yeah, right. As they're discovering it, they don't want it. They don't want the superpower because it's an abandonment, a departure from the default position from what you know yourself to be. So in all of that discomfort, but equally in a combative way with all of this curiosity, see, well, what is it really? Luckily for me, I came to embrace that superpower, lean into that superpower, leverage that superpower. And so I think for a lot of people, we're so addicted to who we've been, we're not as courageous as we could be and shall be and could be again. To lean into those superpowers. We all have.
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A
That's so good.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Our message here today is that everybody has superpowers, but that doesn't mean that your superpower is the same as Richard's, you know, and sometimes there's a lot of value in having connections and friends and things like this. So just for the record, we're not recommending that. Anybody listening today try to call Obama today or try to pitch Oprah on something. Although you might find something out about yourself if you did. So I'm referring to you. Now here's another one of our are Dragonisms. From where I sit, you've become a master of what I call the invisible gates. And I call them invisible gates because gates and barriers are something that we typically make up in the mind. What I'd like to know is what are people missing when they try to force access instead of earn it? The way that you and I met without trying, there was nothing forced about it. It was something earned. And we, and our friendship was like, hey, I kind of like you and let's friends. But it wasn't like something like, I'm gonna become friends with this guy. So tell me a little bit about where that fits in. I mean, were all these people. We're going to share a story now, where all these people that you ended up meeting and working with and having relationships, were they targets, were they destinations? Or were they just part of you, just naturally vibing and attracting people, but taking note of opportunities, you know, to.
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B
Start with, where you framed it, I. I'm going to just really maybe turn this segment on its ear that when you speak of me, or anyone for that matter, as a master of the invisible gates, it begs the question, but of what side of the gates are you located? So for me, I feel like I'm inside the gates. I operate from inside of where I always want to be. I'm not looking in, hoping I can gain entry. I'm looking outwards at the gates that are already closed behind me. So I've made it through or past the velvet ropes, the wrought iron gates, the lock and key. I'm on the inside. So I never really felt and nor do I ever operate within the confines of my mind thinking that I've got to get through something. There have been moments where I clearly have got to get past somebody or something, a barrier of sorts. But that might be a little bit of just my own gift and training where I do really operate in a limitless fashion from, like, there are no gates that I can't open. There is no one in the world I can't get to. That. That's just number one. I think number two to your question is I never, ever intended to go out and just seek an opportunity of being connected with a particular person or something. When I first, first recognized for me, and I have to admit full candor that prior to this big revelation, I had already had a number of instances where I was already in orbit with powerful, rich and amazing people. I have to put that out there. But there was this opportunity where I had the chance of meeting President William Jefferson Clinton, the 42nd president of the United States. He was in my home city, and the organizer of the event had positioned me as a buyer of a VVIP ticket. Not a VIP ticket, a VVIP ticket, which would put me backstage with a handful of only, you know, a number of other people that were willing to pay this really obnoxious amount of money to shake his hand, meet him and take a photo, what we call today a meet and greet. So I jumped at the opportunity, thought that would be fantastic. So, of course, I went to this event, and I was astonished first by the number of people that were in the room. The main call to see him, just to watch a former US President take a stage. There were thousands of people in this room just to listen to this man live and in person. What I was far more astonished by was how horribly he was introduced to the stage. I was mortified for him, the President, and Hold that thought for a moment. But I was mortified because I thought, man, like, this is a president coming into this country, and like, I mean, this is someone that's special. And the person who introduced them was clearly a sponsor of some kind who may have paid for the rights to do that thing, but didn't do a good thing. You get my point. By the time I got backstage and I got to meet the president leading up to it, I couldn't help but notice that everyone in that room, a very small room, remember High Price vvip, were billionaires, millionaires. There were heads of state, there were mayors. I recognize five to ten of the most powerful people in my city in that room. And in that moment, I thought to myself, oh, my gosh, this is the right room for me to be in, given the business I was in. And at the time, I was in the wealth management, investment banking space, so this was a good place for me to be. When I met the president, I said, it's an honor to meet you. I remember practicing in my mind. And I said, but I gotta be honest, whoever you got to introduce you, you really deserve a far more epic introduction than that. And by the way, I' introduced anybody on stage in my life to that moment. And in his own joking way, says, well, Mr. Dolan, why don't you introduce me to the next show coming up in your country? And in that moment, I got the invite. So how did that all come to be? Did I intend to make President Clinton a client? No. Did I intend to say that to him until I experienced what I did? No. But what I realized is I was open. There's the word of the segment. I was really open to learning and working, watching, observing and just being. Not a judge, not an assessor. I wasn't drawing conclusions. I wasn't writing an article. I had no intention. So I was really just open. I was open to the event, how it unfolded, what I experienced, and I sat with it. But the moment I was able to articulate any discourse or discontent with it, I shared it with the right person at the right time in the right way. Have I shared good thoughts in horrible ways? Absolutely. I've fumbled the ball. Have I failed to catch the window in a moment and miss the chance of opportunity, of sharing an insight or a thought? I have too. So timing is everything. But I think the real blessing, and if you're an existentialist, the ontology of it was I was really open. I was super open because I was open. I really would assert he was open and it clicked and that catalyzed a lot of really great opportunity. I went on to tour with him for 15 years after that, but that was the catalyst. So I think just to your point, to make sure I paraphrase and backstop it is, being open is really a function, a requirement to mastering the accessibility to those gates that might appear locked to you if you're open. What's amazing is it disarms the gates, it opens the hinges, it allows you in because you're welcoming both the vulnerability from within, but also that also surrounds you.
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A
That's yummy.
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B
It is.
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A
There's so many things there. You know, I. I would add to open, I would also add that you were not only open, but you were curious enough to evaluate some things. And this leads me to something that I see that you have also mastered, whether you know it or not. And that would be what we call solving the value gap. Now, just to make sure everybody understands what that means is how do you offer value to somebody that has everything? This is what I'm so fascinated about hearing. That's what's so interesting about meeting. I actually got a chance to meet him differently, but at a wedding and at that wedding, Bobby De Niro was there, you know, just randomly. So I got to meet those folks. And you do a great Bill Clinton, by the way. I mean, that was fantastic.
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B
I appreciate that very much.
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A
They're dragging. You obviously spent some time with him. So solving the value gap, what is the science behind that? Is it just about being open and curious to figure out how you can bring value as a financial advisor or as somebody that going to announce people to stage and stuff? How do you create value for somebody that has everything, like some of the stories we're going to hear?
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B
Well, I'll make it really simple. And if you're writing down notes, I would start here. I think that curiosity gets you in, but creativity keeps you around. Now, a function of both is absolutely grounded in courage. We've talked about this already. Without courage, I'm not willing to learn and be ferociously curious and ask questions and lean in and learn more. And without courage, I can't dig deep and think beyond the obvious. So channeling my inner kid and my imagination and its power to really be obscenely creative in a way that's non predictable is very important. So I think for me, and to your question, solving the value gap, that's brilliant by the way. What wonderful framework. It comes down to one of the three laws that I've come to agree on, align with and then authored about. I created this urban financial philosophy around the subject of legacy. Like what it means to not just leave a legacy, but to live a legacy. I've often argued that it's not about like what you leave, what you leave is shaped by how you lived, how you loved, how you laugh, how you led and, and that determines what you leave and what you leave is your legacy. So it's not about stuff, it's actually really about significance. So on that I would then be always asked, well how could you live then a legacy rich oriented life? And I said, well after studying all these icons and legends, I've come to learn that they all share three things in common. And then I went on to write about it. But the three things then rose dragon as laws. They were irrefutable, inarguable, they were impenetrable. They were consistently the same three laws from an actor to a musician to a president to a head of state. And it's the first law. The first law is what I would say is, is the very best of curiosity and creativity fused together. And here it comes, solving the value gap. The way I've seen it, the way I've lived it, the what I've done is I've caused and created a future for that person, that subject, that idol, that leader. What I mean by that is most celebrities, I would have to assert that 99.9 of them, their lives are already thought through. They have scripts for their next movie, they've got games to play, they've got tournaments to get ready for, they've got an off season ahead of them, they've got a, a campaign, they got midterms. The future is clearly already plotted for them. So if you're able to cause and create what comes next after what is now new now, you are someone that quite frankly is curating the future for them. So solving the value gap, the where I created value, which is I think was a huge point of differentiation for me, was not predicting the future for them. I was able to lean on Google for that a lot using Google Analytics, Google Data, Google Trends, compressing like hey where in the world are people searching for all things Mike Tyson? And I'm able to arm myself with data and intelligence that was actionable. To say, here's where you're famous, here's why it matters and here's who we need to go after. That's one thing that's not only predictable, but it's also accessible. What you do with that, how you actionize that, that was the future. So it's kind of like being a chess player. You could be a chess player that's relatively good and you're thinking two, five steps ahead, moves ahead. You can be actually an excellent chess player and you're thinking in terms of like 12 to 15 to 16 steps, moves ahead. But you can be masterful where you're thinking 20, 30, 40, 50 moves ahead. You feel me?
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A
Yeah.
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B
So that's what I mean about future ability. It's the ability to cause and create a future that's yet to be lived out, that's desirable. So if it's about money, if it's about more fame or to yours, your mores, whatever that might be, that to me was where I filled, I filled the value gap. And I think that's something that we all step over and we simply miss the opportunity to do same.
- [31:24]
A
I love it.
- [31:25]
C
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- [31:55]
A
We're obviously listening to somebody that takes what he does very serious, especially on the deeper level. Like if you actually care about this person you're talking to winning as well, then, then it's a whole other story. So let's have some fun. We were talking about the invisible gates before. Gotta have some of the Richard Dolan stories here that most people won't believe, but they could just go look it up. Let's hear maybe a moment where you saw the invisible gate, which you see them as invisible, right. Open up. And you had an opportunity to step into something that most people couldn't.
- [32:31]
B
Well, I mean, look, I, I shared that story with you very briefly and for the sake of your listeners and Those who are here. And by the way, what a fantastic format. I so certainly love your ability to lead through such a hyper creative and courageous deep dive in such a way that you are so. So thank you for that. You pointed out something years ago, and it was back when my son was just a baby, like, small enough that I had him in my arms. And I remember having a dinner in a spot that I wasn't scheduled to be in, and it was a part of Miami where I wasn't supposed to be at. But nevertheless, I'm there with my family and I'm having this dinner. And in walks Juwan Howard. Now, again, very synchronistic, because Juwan Howard, the founder of the Fab Five, first player to hit $100 million contract, he was part of the Fab Five, Michigan U. They were the ones who urbanized basketball as we know it. They had just aired on ESPN that day a special on the Fab Five and its impact in the game. And it just so happened that I was in Miami at the very same time that the Miami Heat were in town. And it was his first season in the Miami Heat. And here he was in the same restaurant I was in, which only had eight tables in the room we were in. So here I am in a place I wasn't supposed to be in, wasn't scheduled to be at, wasn't even dressed according to be There. It was just a very interesting and pleasant instance that I was in this particular restaurant. But I will admit to you something, that when I left the room and he started the conversation with me as I exited, he commented on how great it was to watch me with my son, who had been falling asleep on me while I'm trying to cut my steak and. And eat it. He says, you know, your son's remarkably well behaved. If you ever need a babysitter, I'd love to babysit your kid. I thought, that's super cool. I'm a big fan. Thank you so much. I took a. I took a photo, which was amazing. And this dates back, so I actually had a camera. It wasn't on my phone. And I left. I left the restaurant. I literally walked out the room, down the steps, out of gates that I heard behind me, lock. And in that moment, I thought, what am I doing? That was an opportunity. Interesting. Like, imagine if I had indigestion, drank a little bit too much. Or maybe my son woke and distracted me in that moment. Or the car service arrived and it just whisked me away in a. In a hurry. But there was enough time for me to be open and listening to what there was. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I gotta go back. And so I did. I head back. I talked my way back into this restaurant that they were like, look, the gate's closed. You're not allowed back in. I said, I really just forgot something. And they said, okay, well, go on back and get whatever you forgot. I forgot nothing other than the interaction I should have had with Juwan Howard. So I approach his table, apologize that I did, and said, look, I'm currently doing something here in the world. I. I know your background. I think it'd be of interest. Here's my card. If you have it in you to call me, I'd love to take your call and chat about it some more. He says, you know what? I'll be calling you. My. My promise. I said, fantastic. And for the next few days on this holiday, I waited by my phone profoundly, and it never rang. So I get home, and a few days later, the phone rings, and it's Juwan. And we go on to this really great chat and talk about life and what's next for him, because he was at his 17th season, and he's already starting to think about a life after game, and he says, hey, what are you doing tomorrow? I said, well, I've got no real clear plans because why don't we have a coffee? I got my shoot around in the morning. We have a game at night. I have a few hours. Why don't we have a coffee at this particular spot at this particular time? I said, done. So that next day, I am meeting Juwan Howard, and we're walking up a boulevard in Miami. And as we come to an end of the chat and people start noticing, I mean, in the Miami Heat player who at that time, they were heading into the semifinals of the NBA playoffs, he started noticing he was starting to draw a lot of attention. He's a very tall, handsome guy and, of course, a celebrity. He says, hey, listen, what are you doing later on? I said, well, I got to get back to the airport. He goes, what do you mean, the airport? Where you off to? I said, home. He goes, home? He goes, you flew in for a coffee? I said, hell, right on. I did. I came here for a tazo chai latte with you, my friend. He says, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Hold on a second. That's. That's tremendous. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to go out, buy yourself a white outfit, white pants, white T shirt and you're coming to the game tonight. That night I go to the game and it was my first Miami Heat game and I became a Miami Heat fan for life. In that moment, I not only accessed his family who hosted me, his beautiful mother in law, his sister in laws, his wife Janine, the whole family took me in like I was one of them. They called me family that night and they call me family to this day. But as I'm rubbing shoulders with Pat Riley and the Arison family who owns the team, and I mean it's in that moment I'm realizing that that proximity awarded me because of the influence, the influence I exerted, the impact that I yielded. And that was a very self responsible thing to do. And so as a result of that, to maybe paraphrase it not only led him and I to go and do some incredible cool businesses, one of which where we got to be involved in Pagani, Horatio Pagani, the supercar builder. We did that together, growing that company together. It led to us working together with David Falk, the founder of Jumpman Inc. Michael Jordan super agent, also Juwan's agent, who's a partner of mine to this day because of that relationship. And I mean I went on to win not one, but two championship rings while he was at the Miami Heat, which are the first two rings that LeBron James won at the Miami back to back 2012, 2013. And all because I went to dinner in a place I wasn't supposed to at a time I didn't think I would in circumstances that I didn't think would actually unfold the way they did. So that is a very, very powerful story around where proximity really turned me from stranger to an NBA champion. Right. And it opened up a plethora of new opportunities and possibilities.
- [38:31]
A
There's so many pieces to that. I love the idea of how it almost didn't happen and how it could have not happened at all. There's an intuition thing there. Most people would get past that gate, recognize that they just blew it, but then say, hey, it probably wasn't meant to be or something like that. So, you know, there's a lot of courage here. I've heard you talk before about something that I never heard before, wealth, psychology, and mixed into that are things like relationship equity. That was another one. So there's some concepts about understanding that world that you obviously have. A lot of times people step on toes and they ask for an autograph at the wrong time. So is that a skill set that you just intuitively had where you can build trust. We understand the value gap concept, and you spoke about that so well. But are you just somebody that has these qualities and an ability to notice things and develop these relationships where you're buying white outfits and hanging around with his mom, or did you learn that stuff?
- [39:44]
B
No, no, man. I think. I think we all know it. I think it's not even so much about. I learned something that no one else has learned. I mean, if you've ever gone to a nightclub, a bar, even one that was packed, or the line wrapped around two blocks, or even frequented a particular dance spot, that you just got to know the bouncer, I mean, that is an important access point. And you learned yourself intuitively. And, you know, you know, I'm speaking truth here on how to jump that line, how not to wait in the cold, how not to pay the COVID because you know how to take care of that person. So I don't think it's about skill set or mindset. I think it's about value set. You know, how to value the person that holds the access. I'll tell you a random story. I wasn't planning on telling you this one, but I'll tell the truth about myself, about something that was quite remarkable that led to me meeting one of my idols. I was involved in a film studio at one particular point, and this is going to illustrate the statement I've just made so clearly. And I mean, we're. I'm a part of the studio, a film studio that was responsible for the House of Gucci, an incredible film that really told the story of the family, the Gucci family on its rise and all the drama that came with it. It was starring Lady Gaga, Adam Driver, Al Pacino, to name a few. And so we had the New York premiere, we had the premiere in la, we had one in London, but the particular one that I want to speak to is the one in New York. And here I am with the producers and the executive producers. And I mean, guys, this was a tremendous cast, I mean, and a tremendous director, a legend. And so here I was, dying to get on the carpet to meet these provokes. They were untouchable. You just couldn't really get on carpet with the likes of a Lady Gaga and Al Pacino and Jeremy Irons and the others. Salma Hayek, again, to continue. This was an iconic cast. So I remember there was a moment where I caught a glance of where one of the stars were heading to. They were heading to a room that was backstage. Because after this, when the premiere was going to Start. They were all to appear on stage to give a warm welcome. This was the filmmakers premiere in New York, the global premiere, worldwide premiere. And so what I did. This is so funny, Dragon. I walked with a command straight to where they went. Curtains were drawn, ropes were drawn, and there was three security people there. And I walked straight up to them. I said, gentlemen, has anyone offered you beverages for the evening? Because I don't want to see you guys not hydrate. Now, notice I didn't say, like, I work here, I'm a part of the studio. I didn't drop a name, I didn't pay someone off. I clearly just asked a very obvious question, like, does anyone have bottles of water here for hydration? And they all looked at each other, said, no one's offered us any water of any kind. I said, hold on one second. Who wants flat? Who wants sparkling? I had two flats. I had one sparkling. I left, I went downstairs, purchased three bottles of water, came back upstairs, straight to those gentlemen, said, gentlemen, two flats, one sparkling. Enjoy. I drew the curtain, they let me through, and I was in the green room, a room with about 12 people in it. I posted these pictures many times, but no one knows the story that led me to this room. And here I am in a room all because of what? All because of what? Because of a value set. I valued three people that guarded a room. Now that the story goes public, now I might get in some trouble for that. And now, of course, security is going to tighten around green rooms. But the more of the story is that how did I get in? I mean, there was no Jedi mind trick. There was no parting of cash, there was no promise of prosperity. I simply embodied a care which was real. I brought them water and then I proceeded because I, I and I owned where I was going. So I think what's important about your reference to wealth, psychology and relational equity is, is I think I really and closing, I really value people. And I know that relationally there's an equity and you can grow it and if enough, you can leverage it and you can even exploit it. But if you ever bleed it, you've got to repay it. And you repay it not by money, not just by wealth, but by adding back value, by giving back, by caring, by giving, by providing, by providing for, if not leaving people better than you first found them. Does that make sense?
- [44:14]
A
I love that you're making me actually think about Bruce Lee right now and his whole philosophy of if you want to break your fist through a board, you should envision your fist on the other side of the board. And this is something that I learned from my father as well. Once you've decided that you're going to go somewhere, you no longer look at security guards as walls, but stops along the way. And I see the care, and that was beautiful. But the way I see it, you were already in that room and you just thought it would be nice to give them a drink on the way. Am I right? Did I. Did I figure that out?
- [44:52]
B
Dude, I think. I think you did. I think you're. You're absolutely right. Like, I didn't. I didn't walk up to that moment saying, I'm gonna be there. It's no different from walking back into the room, which is where this all started with Juwan Howard, where I walked back in and I knew I was be in business with him, getting to call him a business partner, a man that I would travel the world with, a man that we talked about buying a piece of the Miami Heat together with. I didn't go in there with that intention or agenda. I just knew that as I walked back through that gate, I was back at that table and we were going to be in some. In each other's lives.
- [45:22]
A
Somehow I just recalled something that I wanted to bring up before. We were talking about, you know, Richard was talking about being open, and we added curiosity. But, um, I also saw somewhere this concept of having ferocious curiosity. I always tell people that I think it's a wonderful way to go through life, and that's how I meet most people, is I'm curious. You know, I just had our buddy Nick Hutchinson on, just a stand up guy. He and I just became great, great friends. And the reason why he was on my show and that we've become friends just like you and I, is that I was just very curious. I like, I like to find out what makes people tick. And I think part of wealth psychology is understanding what life must be like for these people, but at the same time recognizing that they don't really get a chance to just be people. And there's something that happens when they meet somebody like Richard Dolan, where it's comfortable, where there's like, this guy understands how to communicate with me without asking for things and stuff.
- [46:26]
B
And one small Correction, they'll take 90 seconds to do it. Because you've met, you've referenced it twice. And I, I want. I don't want to leave it there because given my background is behavioral finance and happiness economics, when you speak of wealth psychology, it really is for a better play. It's like financial psychology.
- [46:43]
A
Sure.
- [46:43]
B
Because when you look at your financial life, you have three distinctions in there. You have money, wealth and worth. So those distinctions are very different. I've met a lot of people with a lot of money, but they have no wealth.
- [46:54]
A
Right.
- [46:54]
B
And when you see a lot of people with a lot of wealth and it might look shiny and really big, sometimes they're dirt broke, they got no cash, they don't, they don't have a lot of money. And so people look at worth. The real breakthrough here I'm offering you in the final few seconds is in worth. It's the that which you hold value in and has value for. So like life, worth is the value give to and get from life. So as we get older, we value things like time, freedom and the power of choice. So I find that if someone were to say to me, breaking it down through the world or the lens of financial psychology, Richard, relational equity, you're driving the increase of value in one of those three buckets. Maybe some money, maybe some wealth. But most of the people I've interacted with have lots of both. What they're looking for is more worth. That's where the legacy term lives. Right. To be able to leave a legacy, to be able to have lived a legacy, to have made an impact, a difference. Yes. So I just want to make sure I just left that as a, a sound card because I don't disagree with, well, psychology, but I think that's just very limited. So I just want to make sure I added that.
- [47:58]
A
I love it. I love when we make things even more fun. You're reminding me. As a chiropractor, I just had this reputation of taking care of the, the rich, famous and I mean I've taken care of Worldwide CEO of Pepsi and Royal Prince of Abu Dhabi and all this crazy stuff. But what's fun about it is I just became this guy that people knew was the guy to refer these people to. And if I look back, it was something that I wanted because I wanted to impact as many people as possible. So I like the idea of working with people that knew a lot of people, people, but I think that I was just very, very fascinated about what it was like to be them just as a human being. And what I found is that it wasn't always what everybody thought. You know, there was a lot of stress and a lot of family problems. And you know, I was the, the on tour chiropractor for bands like Anthrax and I work with Linkin park and things like that. And you Know when you get to know these people behind the scenes, they're just people and they have the same challenges. And, and I love the fact that you said, you know, even somebody that you perceive as has wealth, you know, could, could lack money. So what I want to do is I want to close out that, you know, in a way that'll kind of lead to how you and I met and put a bow on all of this stuff I wrote down here. I said, in your house of legacy, right? This is something that Richard talks about. How do you coach leaders to move from transactional networking? That's, that's what's mostly out there for sale, transactional networking. I've even been guilty of teaching people how to transactionally network, how to say the right thing and trigger this and prompt that. I'm a big fan of Oren Claff controlling the energy of the frame and all of that stuff. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about this concept of moving from transactional networking to this hundred year legacy relationship idea that has Jim Kwik involved in between us. But I'd love to close out on talking about that so we can kind of like put a bow on the difference between a quality relationship and one where there's just a win involved.
- [50:11]
B
Well, you know, I'll give you a really crass example. You know, take, take for example, if someone just sells a particular solution that solves a problem. A mortgage agent provides a loan, you know, a tax preparer files the taxes, a banker takes a deposit or permits a withdrawal, or a realtor either lists a home or helps someone buy a home. Oftentimes in the realm of transactionality, transactions are always about how do I fill this need? Yeah, well, how do I fill this need? I have a need. Fill the need. I have a need. Fill the need. But oftentimes what ends up happening is that's a very one dimensional existence. Not just as an entrepreneur or as a professional, as a person, but as a business. So when you're transactional, you're waiting for something to be needed. Often this is where a lot of people really in fact suffer from not being able to market themselves very effectively because they're waiting to be needed. So in order to transcend, not just shift, but transcend transactional because you don't want to give up your day job, you don't want to give up what makes you money. But to transcend it, to move from transaction, you got to start thinking transformational. But the only way you get transformational is if you Focus relational. So if you really see the human, which kind of is consistent with your, your ideology that you just shared around energy and managing the energy around something, that energy is coming from a human being. The idea doesn't have an energy, the future doesn't have an energy. There is an energy, but without a human connected to that certain outcome or to that certain thing, it's just a vision. What I love about Jim is Jim and I have known each other for over 20 years. I mean, Oprah Winfrey brought us together. I was bankrolling her Canadian tour. We had just relaunched the old network and I met him in, in a city where we hit it off. And I got to know him very well because Oprah prompted me to. She says that guy's going to be a national best selling author one day. And he did, and he is. But after all these years I've been able to work with him and, and broker deals with them with the Royal family all the way to Amazon. And what's nice is I see a man who's up to a transformational mission of really people's relationship to their minds, their brains and its power. Being able to reclaim the brain, so to speak, in all the power and its glory. So based on our relationship, but given the mission he's up to, there's a great example of someone where, where really are in fact architecting, if it were my own access so that we can create the kind of infrastructure for him to now put the scaffolding in place that will actually outlive his lifetime. So that way he's not just passing along his name, his brand or even the ip, but its purpose, its place, its position. Because it's not just a transactional business. It's going to be a transformational gravity that will be found in curricula, corporate program, wellness initiatives, you know, new standards, indexes, and then the sort. So there's a great example of someone that we both know, we both love and are collaborating with. That's the kind of viewpoint I bring to the table with him in thinking on what, how to close, if you said it earlier, on selling that value gap. That value gap is causing and creating what comes next for him. That's the future ability. I'm architecting the future of Jim Quick and all things quick.
- [53:32]
A
I always wonder because you and I are forging a relationship and like, like I am with, with other people. And I often wonder if it's just due to the atmosphere that we met or the pretenses that we met, you know, had we met at an event, it might have just been a handshake, and that was it. You wouldn't. You wouldn't know about my alpaca, you know, fleece or anything.
- [53:55]
B
Yeah, no, but. But I think. True. But to return to maybe the educative format of your program is, I think one of the things that proximity requires, like we need oxygen, the oxygen, proximity, is timing, right? And not just time, but timing. So the time you have with someone combined with the timing of that someone is. Is, I think, part of what creates a moving miracle to absolute miracle. So for us, we had time, and it was also good timing, right? And I think. I think if you put those two equations into play for proximity, because sometimes you, you know, it's like playing the lottery. You know, sometimes they call your numbers, but if you didn't play, you don't win. So for. For us, I think that's what it was. It was. It was. It was good time. We had a lot of good time. We had days together, and it was good timing. I was. I was in a good place, and I was really eager to meet someone that had alpaca in their fashion lineup. And.
- [54:51]
A
And you showed up and there's timing of two people coming together, but then there's also what's going on in their lives at the same time. And. And you know, that's an important thing to recognize. Just because you gain proximity, it doesn't mean that everything's going to fall into place like this. Even if you are the most skilled and you buy flattened and seltzer water, you know, you could do all those things, it doesn't always work out like this. So that's a great thing to put in at the end there, that, the timing issue.
- [55:23]
B
And I know you'll appreciate this because you're. You're a studious man and a philosopher as well. But. But the Sun Tzu said it best. It's like when two foreign substances come together, and if there's a reaction, both are forever transformed.
- [55:35]
A
Right?
- [55:35]
B
So. So to your point, you know, when I met you, there's a part of me that was transformed and perhaps for you as well. And I don't want to speak for you, but. But oftentimes the way it worked for me, to have an incredible Rolodex and an incredible, you know, celebrity profile and the ability to collaborate with incredible, powerful people and some of their greatest managers and trusted advisors when we met, and because there was a reaction, both of us were transformed. So I owe it to that source of transformation. They owe it to Their source of transformation, the continuation of that relationship. I think that's the greatest catalyst to being ferociously curious, leaning in, wanting more. You know, let's do this podcast. Let's do a collaboration, let's do an event together. Hey, let's do something in New York. Hey, let's do something in la. And it's because we're feeding the energy that was created. So I think that's all grounded in that heart. There's. There. There we go again. That's. That's the value set, right? That's the appreciation sort of acclimation, where it's like, I. I appreciate that so much. How do I honor it? Constantly.
- [56:38]
A
So if somebody wants to learn more about you, where do you recommend people stalk you?
- [56:43]
B
Hey, listen, they can always follow me on Instagram. You know, my. It's my first name. Richard.Dolan D is in Delta O L A N. Or they can visit me online@richard dolan.com but largely what they'll notice is that there are some things I'm up to, but most of the things I'm up to is in servitude to others. So, you know, working with our dear friend Jim Kwik or working with other folks in the world that are up to incredible things. So you'll always notice that I'm an instrument for impact, but it's not just because I'm for hire. It's because I've been engaged by those who are up to bigger games and that I'm really super happy to be in their corner for.
- [57:21]
A
I love it. What a treat. I can't wait to talk to you next and hopefully we're going to see each other soon. But my biggest takeaway, considering everything that we've talked about, is that access is not something that is taken but granted and by all, all of these elements. So, Richard Dolan, it is just an honor and a privilege to tell everybody that I know, which I've already done, that you're my friend. I hope that was okay. I will buy you flat or sparkling water any day of the week. And I want to thank you for being in Dragon's Lair. You did great.
- [57:57]
B
Amen. What an honor to be here. And I know just in the closing seconds I've got left. I'm grateful for the friendship, you know, the love is real and in evidence of that, in demonstration to that statement, we're going to continue doing great things together. And I know that the best is yet to come.
- [58:12]
A
Here, here.
- [58:13]
B
Hey, this is Richard Dolan and this podcast makes sense that's it for today.
- [58:19]
A
To support the make sense with Dr. JC podcast. Be sure to subscribe, like and share, as well as follow the Make Sense substack for free daily quotes, live streams, and blogs. And remember, learning without action is just another form of distraction. If something hit home and you learned something today, give it away. That's the only way it's going to stay. See you next time.
- [58:46]
B
Makes sense.