Making Sense with Sam Harris: Episode #386 — Information & Social Order
Release Date: October 7, 2024
In Episode #386 of "Making Sense with Sam Harris," host Sam Harris engages in a profound dialogue with renowned historian Yuval Noah Harari. The conversation delves into the intricate relationship between information networks and social order, exploring how our current information landscape affects democracy, truth, and societal cohesion. Drawing insights from Harari's latest book, "A Brief History of Information Networks from the Stone Age to AI," the episode navigates through historical contexts, present-day challenges, and future implications of information flow in shaping human civilizations.
1. Setting the Stage: The Ethical Morass of Information Flow
The episode begins with Sam Harris addressing recent geopolitical events, notably Israel's operation against Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah. Harris critiques mainstream media's portrayal of such events, highlighting the omission of Hezbollah's history of rocket attacks and terrorist activities (00:34). This sets the tone for a broader discussion on the skewed information landscape and its ethical implications.
Notable Quote:
"The New York Times in their obituary makes it seem like he [Nasrallah] was a man of peace, committed to a two-state solution, when in fact he was a religious lunatic running one of the world's most lethal terrorist organizations." (00:34)
2. Democracies vs. Dictatorships: Information Networks on a Continuum
Harari introduces his central thesis from "Nexus," where he posits that democracies and dictatorships represent different points on an information flow continuum (07:04). Instead of viewing them as binary opposites, Harari explains that dictatorships centralize information through a single hub, whereas democracies distribute information across multiple centers.
Notable Quote:
"Democracy is a distributed information system in which decisions are being made in many different places. And much of the information never passes through the center." (07:04)
This perspective challenges conventional notions, emphasizing the complexity of information dynamics in various governance systems.
3. The Naive View of Information: More Isn't Always Better
A significant portion of the discussion critiques the prevailing assumption that increased information flow inherently benefits society. Harari argues that not all information is valuable; much of it is "junk" that obscures the truth (11:14).
Notable Quote:
"You think that you flood the world with information and the truth will just rise to the surface. It won't. It will sink to the bottom. Information isn't truth." (11:14)
He likens excessive information to an unhealthy diet, where an overconsumption of junk data can impair societal functioning.
4. Truth vs. Fiction: Maintaining Social Order
Harari delves into the necessity of balancing truth with fiction to sustain large-scale societies (14:03). While truth is essential for informed decision-making, fiction—ranging from legal frameworks to societal norms—plays a crucial role in maintaining order.
Notable Quote:
"Fiction is very efficient in creating order. And the main thing is that it's complicated to maintain a human society. It's complicated because you need to balance two things that are pulling in different directions. You need to balance truth with order." (22:33)
He illustrates this balance with examples like the U.S. Constitution, which acknowledges its own fallibility and incorporates mechanisms for amendment, unlike rigid systems like the Ten Commandments.
5. Trust in Institutions: The Pillars of Democracy
A recurring theme is the importance of trust in institutions for the survival of democracies. Harari emphasizes that institutions must be self-correcting and hold each other accountable to prevent corruption and the rise of totalitarianism (16:37).
Notable Quote:
"Society needs institutions, and democracy works on trust. But if you destroy all trust, the only alternative left to hold society together is with terror, which is what dictatorships do." (16:37)
He advocates for multiple institutions that can check and balance each other, ensuring resilience against corruption and authoritarianism.
6. The Role of Social Media: Regulation and Responsibility
Transitioning to contemporary issues, Harari offers critical insights into the regulation of social media platforms. He argues that corporations like Facebook and Twitter should be treated as publishers, holding them liable for the content their algorithms amplify (35:45).
Notable Quotes:
"Corporations should be liable for the actions of their algorithms. And only humans have freedom of speech. Bots and algorithms do not have freedom of speech, and they should never masquerade as humans." (35:45)
"If you have a medical bot and you want to consult with that bot about some medical condition, I mean, soon we'll have AI doctors with capabilities far beyond human doctors. I’m not against that... But when I talk with a non-human entity, I want to know that this is a non-human entity." (41:31)
Harari calls for transparency in algorithmic decision-making and the banning of counterfeit human identities by bots to preserve the integrity of democratic conversations.
7. Current Events Through the Lens of Information Networks
Applying his theoretical framework to real-world scenarios, Harari and Harris analyze several pressing issues:
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U.S. Elections: They discuss the erosion of trust in electoral processes, exacerbated by misinformation and polarized media (46:10).
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War in Ukraine and Israel: The conversation touches on the complexities of modern warfare, propaganda, and the role of information in shaping international conflicts (05:36).
Harari underscores the fragility of democracies when confronted with information manipulation and the indispensability of maintaining truthful discourse.
8. Conservatism vs. Populism: Preserving Institutional Integrity
Harari contrasts conservative caution with populist impulses to dismantle existing institutions. He warns against the allure of revolutionary rhetoric that promises to rebuild society from scratch, highlighting historical lessons where such attempts led to greater turmoil (33:05).
Notable Quote:
"The traditional insight of conservatism is that yes, institutions are flawed, institutions can be corrupted, but it takes generations to build a functioning society, a functioning institution. Humans don't really have the capacity to understand the full complexity of reality and to invent a perfect society from scratch." (33:43)
He advocates for gradual reform over radical upheaval, emphasizing the importance of preserving the accumulated wisdom embedded in existing institutions.
9. Balancing Efficiency and Inefficiency in Democratic Systems
Addressing the trade-off between efficiency and the necessary inefficiencies that safeguard against authoritarianism, Harari suggests that democracies should seek a middle path. This involves continuous self-correction and public discourse to navigate complex policy decisions without succumbing to extreme ideologies (43:43).
Notable Quote:
"So if you go for an extreme position... it's completely unfeasible. Again, how many immigrants a country wants to absorb and under what conditions... It should not be a kind of all out war between good and evil. And the same goes for the level of surveillance." (44:20)
10. Concluding Insights: Building Benevolent Information Networks
In wrapping up, Harari emphasizes the need for information networks that prioritize truth while maintaining societal order. He calls for benevolent stewardship of information by both human institutions and artificial algorithms to ensure a balanced and functioning democracy.
Notable Quote:
"We need to find the middle path and it's difficult. And we need to start with the assumption that we are not infallible and that other people might have good ideas about these questions." (44:21)
Final Thoughts
Episode #386 of "Making Sense with Sam Harris" offers a comprehensive exploration of how information networks shape societal structures and democratic resilience. Through his insightful dialogue with Yuval Noah Harari, Harris sheds light on the delicate balance between truth and fiction, the critical role of institutional trust, and the pressing need to regulate modern information platforms. This episode serves as a poignant reminder of the challenges democracies face in the digital age and underscores the importance of thoughtful stewardship in maintaining social order.