Making Sense with Sam Harris: Episode #418 — A Future for Democrats
Host: Sam Harris
Guest: Richie Torres
Release Date: June 2, 2025
1. Introduction and Guest Background
In this episode of Making Sense, Sam Harris welcomes Richie Torres, a prominent Democratic congressman from the Bronx. Richie's journey from poverty-stricken public housing to the United States Congress serves as a compelling narrative of resilience and dedication.
Richie Torres shares his early life experiences, stating, “[I was born and raised in the Bronx, spent all of my childhood in poverty...]” (00:40). His grassroots approach to politics, marked by door-to-door campaigning, led him to become the youngest elected official in New York City at age 25.
2. Evolution of Political Views
Torres discusses his political evolution, noting a shift from progressive beginnings to a more moderate stance over time. Initially a progressive, he observed significant changes within the Democratic Party:
“...the progressive position on immigration was immigration reform, and then it became open borders...” (03:22).
He highlights how key issues have radicalized, such as criminal justice reform evolving into calls to “defund the police” and immigration stances shifting drastically over the past decade.
3. The Radicalization of the Democratic Party
Torres attributes the rise of Trumpism partially to the Democratic Party's shift to the left. He asserts that the party's move towards extreme positions alienated many Americans:
“Donald Trump has no greater friend than the far left, which has alienated growing numbers of Americans...” (04:49).
He criticizes the Democratic leadership for pandering to the far left, which he believes has led to policies that do not resonate with the broader populace, such as delayed responses to the migrant crisis despite overwhelming public support.
4. Impact of Trump and Trumpism
Discussing the influence of Donald Trump, Torres describes a symbiotic relationship between the far left and far right:
“The far left has no greater friend than the far right, and the far right has no greater friend than the far left... Every action produces an equal and opposite reaction.” (10:25).
He expresses concern that the Democratic Party is currently unable to find its center due to the aggressive tactics inspired by Trump’s provocations, which hinder necessary moderation and restructuring within the party.
5. Antisemitism on the Left and Right
A significant portion of the conversation addresses the rise of antisemitism in American politics. Torres is particularly critical of the far left's role in perpetuating antisemitic sentiments:
“...the far left anti Semitism enjoys greater respectability in American culture, in American media, in American education.” (25:47).
He underscores how intersectionality has framed Jews and Israel as oppressors, leading to widespread demonization and moral confusion. This, he argues, erodes empathy and supports harmful misconceptions about historical atrocities like the Holocaust.
6. Wealth Inequality and the Affordability Crisis
Torres shifts focus to economic issues, identifying the affordability crisis as the paramount challenge facing America. He argues that wealth inequality is intrinsically linked to class issues and proposes a redefinition of Democratic priorities:
“I would focus more heavily on class. I feel like we in the Democratic Party should be defined not by identities but by ideas.” (37:19).
He advocates for policies that increase housing supply, make higher education more accessible, and support vocational training, viewing these measures as essential to combating structural unemployment and improving overall human flourishing.
7. Views on Artificial Intelligence
The discussion transitions to the implications of AI on the workforce and society. Both Harris and Torres express concerns about AI exacerbating economic disparities and disrupting job markets:
“...we're totally capable of leaving aside the problem of building AI that is aligned with our interests and may yet just kill us...” (39:46).
Torres remains cautiously optimistic, emphasizing technology's potential to drive human progress but acknowledging the significant risks if AI advancements are not managed responsibly.
8. Future of the Democratic Party and Political Leadership
Torres envisions a transformation within the Democratic Party towards a "Big Ten party" model, better suited to America’s shifting electoral landscape. He emphasizes the need for leadership that embodies patriotism and moral clarity:
“The central project of the Democratic Party should be to address the affordability crisis that is immiserating the American working class.” (35:53).
Highlighting potential leaders, he praises governors like Wes Moore and Josh Shapiro, as well as Mayor Pete, for their executive experience and communication skills, suggesting a robust bench of talent ready to guide the party forward.
9. Combating Moral Confusion and Embracing Patriotic Liberalism
In concluding discussions, Torres calls for the Democratic Party to adopt a patriotic liberalism that defends American exceptionalism while embracing diversity and multiracial democracy:
“I feel like we have a culture of self loathing in the West... I wish the American left would embrace the patriotism of the Israeli left.” (32:30).
He stresses the importance of moral clarity and defending Western civilization’s values against ideologically driven nihilism, positioning the Democratic Party as the guardian of America’s democratic ideals.
10. Final Thoughts and Conclusion
Sam Harris commends Torres for articulating a vision that balances progressive ideals with pragmatic governance. He emphasizes the necessity of integrating moral clarity with competence to navigate America’s complex political landscape.
“So thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for coming out here, and it's great to get you on the podcast.” (45:22).
Richie Torres echoes this sentiment, highlighting the importance of rational discourse and ethical leadership in fostering a sustainable and prosperous future for the Democratic Party and the nation.
Notable Quotes:
- Richie Torres: “Ever since Donald Trump has created this environment, there’s no substitute for winning. We have to win elections.” (15:44)
- Richie Torres: “There's a misconception about the First Amendment. The First Amendment protects speech, not conduct.” (28:00)
- Richie Torres: “A society that exalts mediocre philosophy but devalues excellent plumbing will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy.” (37:37)
This episode provides a critical examination of the current state and future trajectory of the Democratic Party through the lens of Congressman Richie Torres. It underscores the need for strategic moderation, economic reform, and moral integrity to navigate the challenges posed by radicalization and external political threats.