Podcast Summary: Making Sense with Sam Harris

Episode #437 — Two Years Since 10/7 (October 6, 2025)
Host: Sam Harris
Guest: Dan Senor

Episode Overview

In this simulcast episode, Sam Harris welcomes foreign policy analyst and "Call Me Back" podcast host Dan Senor to discuss developments in global antisemitism and Israel's struggle in the information war, two years after the October 7, 2023 Hamas attack. They reflect on dramatic shifts in public discourse, political responses in Europe, and challenges in defending the principles of open society amid rising religious and ideological tensions.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Surge in Global Antisemitism Since 10/7

• Ongoing Shock: Both Harris and Senor revisit their previous conversation—marking one year after October 7—where the explosion of antisemitism was the most surprising development. Harris underscores that, two years on, this trend has only intensified and further shocked him.
  • Quote:
    “Now I am even further surprised about the size and depth of the crater. It's a bigger problem than I imagined and it's a bigger problem than I imagined a year ago. It just seems to be getting worse, not better. And I keep finding new details that shock me.” — Sam Harris [04:02]
• Recent Events as Indicators: They highlight the murder of Jews in Manchester on Yom Kippur and the open celebrations in London as symptoms of deep-seated societal issues.
  • Quote:
    “To know that there were celebrations in the streets of London in the immediate aftermath ... just unabashed celebrations of the murder of Jews in the UK—it's shocking. And our tacit toleration of it is shocking.” — Sam Harris [04:38]

2. The Information War and Western Responses

• Media and Political Rhetoric: Senor critiques mainstream narratives that repeatedly label Israel as a "genocidal" and "apartheid" state, arguing this rhetoric radicalizes public opinion and incites violence against Jews globally.
  • Quote:
    “You’re just indoctrinating, you know, lots of people, young people especially ... that this is genocide ... then why wouldn't people start trying to kill the supporters of the genocide?” — Dan Senor [07:00]
• European Government Strategies: Senor and Harris analyze the initial supportive stance of leaders like Macron, and their subsequent retreat into neutrality or criticism to appease domestic Muslim populations. They argue such strategies backfire, emboldening extremists rather than calming tensions.
  • Quote:
    “The approach they took was: we can kind of feed the beast by criticizing Israel ... by criticizing the Jews ... and of course, the opposite happens.” — Dan Senor [13:10]

3. Consequences of Failing to Confront Islamic Extremism

• Wider Threat to Open Societies: Harris repeatedly emphasizes that antisemitism is part of a broader failure to protect open society values. He connects attacks against Jews to previous jihadist atrocities against non-Jewish targets (e.g., Manchester Arena, Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan).
  • Quote:
    “The stark fact that Western Europe has imported a death cult into its midst and has failed to acknowledge the gravity of this fact ... The masochism and delusion has now been turned up to 11. And honestly, I don't know what the next step is.” — Sam Harris [08:00]
• Pressure on Political Systems: Both note that relatively small Muslim minorities (6-8% in the UK/France) are exerting disproportionate influence, leading to political pandering and erosion of societal norms.
  • Quote:
    “The depth of this problem, the fact that you can get hundreds of thousands of people in the streets exerting what seems scarcely tolerable pressure ... all of this mayhem is the result of 6% of the population making itself noisy.” — Sam Harris [14:26]

4. Moral and Rhetorical Challenges in Public Discourse

• Limits of Critique and Risk of Association: Harris describes the difficulty of publicly criticizing Islamic extremism without being accused of racism or bigotry, noting how the left conflates criticism of ideas with xenophobia. He also discusses the complexity of associating with controversial right-wing figures, even if they are correct about certain issues.
  • Quote:
    “Islamophobia is a word that has been made up to prevent criticism of Islam and to conflate it with bigotry. ... Any secularist who wants to argue against creeping Islamic theocracy ... gets painted as a bigot and as an Islamophobe, and it's just not true.” — Sam Harris [16:58]

5. Risks of Political Backlash and the Right-Wing Surge

• Potential for Far-Right Gains: Both speakers predict that failure by centrist and left parties to address underlying issues may create space for far-right movements to gain ground—an outcome neither desires.
  • Quote:
    “If the left of center or centrist or even just normal conservatives can't get their arms around this problem, fascists will.” — Sam Harris [09:06]
  • Quote:
    “We're going to see a big right-wing swing in European politics from the UK through France ... for the reasons we're talking about here.” — Dan Senor [10:46]

6. Nuances of Identity, Religion, and Criticism

• Distinguishing Jewish and Muslim Identity: Harris draws a line between permanent ethnic/religious identities (Judaism) and ideologies open to conversion and expansion (Islam/Christianity), arguing society must discuss these differences honestly and without fear.
  • Quote:
    “You have to think about Islam as a set of ideas that is analogous to any other set of ideas, like communism ... And the same attitude has to be taken when discussing the differences between our religions, especially religions that are religions of conversion.” — Sam Harris [15:25]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If liberals won't enforce borders, fascists will.” — Harris quoting David Frum [09:35]
• Senor on UK Chief Rabbi’s Response:
  “‘We’re shocked by what happened, and yet we all knew this day would come.’ ... If we spend two years tolerating this rhetoric ... why wouldn’t people start trying to kill the supporters of the genocide?” [06:34]

Selected Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:55 — Dan Senor’s background and how his focus shifted to Israel/Middle East after 10/7
• 03:16 — Year 2 reflection: what surprised Harris most in the past year
• 04:02 — Harris on the deepening crisis of antisemitism
• 06:26 — Senor on social and rhetorical escalation leading to violence
• 08:00 — Harris tying recent events to a broader pattern of jihadist violence in Europe
• 10:46 — Discussion of right-wing shift in European politics and Macron’s political balancing
• 13:53 — “Feeding the crocodile” analogy and the futility of appeasing radical constituencies
• 14:26 — Harris: Minority groups exerting disproportionate pressure
• 15:25 — Analogy of Islam as an idea system vs. ethnicity; distinction with Judaism
• 16:58 — Critique of term “Islamophobia” and challenges in public debate
• 09:06 — Harris warning about far-right movements filling voids left by centrists

Tone and Language

The discussion is frank, at times urgent, and unapologetically analytical. Both speakers avoid euphemism, regularly emphasizing their alignment on the seriousness of the issue while noting differences in their personal approaches (Senor’s comfort with Jewish identity politics, Harris’s universalist and secular perspective).

Conclusion

This episode offers a candid, sometimes unsettling look at the ongoing repercussions of October 7, the global reaction to Israel and Jews, and the wider implications for liberal democracy and open societies in the face of growing religious fanaticism and political reticence. Both Harris and Senor analyze the erosion of social norms around antisemitism, the perils of political expediency, and the urgency of an honest public debate about dangerous ideas—regardless of their origin.