← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Alicia Keys on The Power of Listening to Your Soul and Trusting Yourself
00:49:53
Alicia Keys has spent nearly three decades using her voice to move the world, but the most powerful thing she’s learned is how to listen to her own. The seventeen-time Grammy Award winner joins Hoda for a soulful conversation at Making Space Wellness Day at Brooklyn’s Wythe Hotel about trusting your intuition, unlearning old habits, and finding stillness in a world that rarely slows down. Alicia also opens up about creating her wellness brand, Keys Soulcare, her Broadway musical "Hell’s Kitchen," and the peace that comes when you finally bet on yourself.
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A
Morning Zoe. Got donuts.
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B
Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?
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A
Well I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me.
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B
So Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
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A
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
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C
Nice.
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B
Je free.
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D
You heard them.
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A
T Mobile is the best place to.
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E
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.
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D
Us with eligible traded in any condition.
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A
So what are we having for lunch?
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B
Dude, my work here is done.
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E
The 24 month bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oklahoma Speed Test Intelligence Data 182025 Visit t mobile.com.
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D
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C
From her very first notes to today Alicia Keys has done more than just make music. She's made us feel. A 17 time Grammy Award winning artist, producer and global icon, Alicia has spent almost three decades using her voice to inspire, uplift and remind us of our own power. Most recently, she's made waves on Broadway with her musical Hell's Kitchen, a story inspired by her own life growing up in New York with her mother and how she found her voice amid the noise. But beyond the spotlight, she's been on her own journey, one of truth, purpose and peace with her lifestyle and wellness brand Keys Soul Care. Alicia's helping others do the same, encouraging us all to care for the part of ourselves we cannot see, but we can feel. Alicia joined me for our Making Space Wellness Day at Brooklyn's Wyeth Hotel for a beautiful conversation about the importance of trusting your gut, unlearning the habits that hold us back, and making space for stillness even in the busiest moments of life. She shares how meditation, affirmations and intention have grounded her and why she believes the bravest thing we can do is bet on ourselves. Alicia is a force of Grace and authenticity. A woman whose words, presence and purpose remind us that when we live in our truth, we shine brighter than ever. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to my podcast, Making Space. You are at an interesting chapter in your life. Tell us, because we just talked about how decades define us. Things change and we have to keep redefining. What chapter? Where are we in the Alicia Keys storybook right now?
- [03:18]
D
Wow, that's a good one. We're definitely at a chapter where I understand that I am unlimited, that there is no ceiling above me, and that everything that I create, it comes from within me. I don't have to be validated by somebody else to tell me that I have permission to do what I can dream up or what I can, you know, have the. Have the passion for. So there's definitely a confidence. The chapter surrounds confidence. Understanding my self worth, you know, and not denying that or sometimes, you know, finding that we really do have a lot of things to unpack within us, you know, a lot of. A lot of. But I find that understanding your value, that you are valuable, that you are special, that you have, you know, if something doesn't feel right to you, it's not right. You know, we don't have to guess and second guess and. Well, maybe. No, no, maybe. No, kinda. It doesn't feel right, you know, it's not right.
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C
Finding that voice. It took me into my 50s to be able to say, uh, it took me that long because I spent my life pleasing. How can I make you feel better? I know I don't feel great, but I want you to feel really good. Did you go through that?
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D
Yeah. And so I'm trying to figure out, you know, I've been wondering, is that like a woman thing?
- [04:53]
C
Is it?
- [04:55]
D
Because I mean, and I don't want to count out my guys. I'm sure there's plenty, you know, like my brother is a really soulful, caring person. Like, he really. I feel like he would sit here and he would say, no, that's not. Like he also maybe feels sometimes like an over giver. Right. So I don't want to, but I do feel like maybe it's a little bit of a woman thing and that's something that we have to just be cautious of, just be conscious of. I think it's the consciousness, so. But the thing is, we don't know it because we watched our mothers and our grandmothers and, you know, everyone down the line did the same thing. Because I remember that same moment for my grandmother. I remember sitting her kitchen and My grandfather had just passed away and I was like 13 years old. It was my first kind of major death that I experienced. And she finally said, okay, I'm done. Like, I'm not cooking every day, I'm not doing this every day. And she was done in the sense of like, okay, I finally am going to tune into me now. And she was already probably 60. And I was like, man, I remember that landed on me really hard at 13. And I was like, I want to make sure that I don't have to be 60 before I can say I choose myself.
- [06:11]
C
So did it come because in the music industry you started off super young, obviously you got your first record deal at like 16 or 17, right? 14, 14, who's counting? We are 17 Grammys, we're counting. So you get your first record deal. And everybody I'm sure said, I know more. Great, I know you're good, but we know how it works. So you follow this path. Did you march along?
- [06:38]
D
Well, yeah, I mean, I'm 14 years old. Like it definitely was like, you definitely know. And they did, they did know more at that time. But one thing is a fact. Don't matter if you're 7 or 14 or 37 or 60, nobody knows you better than you, period.
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C
That's good, that's good.
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D
But it took me a long time to get there. Cause still I would feel like, you know, through my 20s and even through my 30s, I would feel like, you know, is this the right thing? Should I do? You know, it was very again, back to the worth, the worthiness, I think of this self doubt thing that we do in this negative talk that we do to our own selves where we kind of talk ourselves out of whatever the good thing is, because we feel like, well, how. What makes me worth it or what makes this right for me or who's to say I can follow my dreams or reach my path. So for sure, that was a hard thing to unwind. Because being so young and beginning so young, you do get used to kind of following now. I was always strong minded person. I remember I was like, I'm not wearing flowers. I don't do flowers. I do Tim's. So I know it's definitely. I was very clear about certain things. Like there's certain things that I just knew factually, like, no, that doesn't feel right now. I'm not gonna do that. But there was also certain things that I wasn't sure of and I felt like, oh, well, maybe this is what I'm supposed to do. And then I had to have the natural self learning where you're just like, we're not gonna do that one again. Like, let's call that one a lesson. We love that. There were plenty of those, you know, but that's life. So it took a long time to kind of undo that pattern where you're used to kind of following and starting to turn into leading because you trust your gut. And how do you trust your gut is the question.
- [08:31]
C
Yeah. How do you. Because sometimes if you, you know, I guess they say, like, you're the sum total of the five people you surround yourself with. So, like, choose your people wisely. So I feel like I. And sometimes, I mean, I'll bounce off and they'll give me different kinds of feedback. But you're right. At the end of the day, inside, you're like, this is not right for me. And now. Yeah, speak it out loud. I have a question that I was asked by somebody a long time ago, and I never forgot it. Uh oh, never forgot it.
- [09:02]
D
I love those questions.
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C
And it was very revealing to me. And when he was asking us, like, what is this weird question? But it was revealing, so I'll ask you.
- [09:10]
D
Okay.
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C
So he said, close your eyes. He said, imagine yourself in your childhood bedroom. Want you to look around at the walls and at the sheets and at the things you have on the counter. Was it neat? Was it messy? What did it look like? And now open your eyes and describe it to us.
- [09:32]
D
Aw. Well, there was different bedrooms, obviously, at different times, But I lived in the same house for. Until I moved out. So the reason why I was different is because there was only one bedroom. It was my mother and I. So it was one bedroom. And sometimes she had the bedroom and sometimes I had the bedroom. So in this particular one, for whatever reason, I had the bedroom. And I remember this tent that used to cover the bed. And I think it was My Little Pony. And it was really cool because you could go inside the tent and, like, go to sleep. And it felt really, really, you know, really sweet. And there was these wood, kind of wood square floors. Like, really regular New York apartment vibe. It was kind of messy. I think it was kind of messy. Usually things were a little bit chaotic. Toys everywhere and, you know, hair brushes and just stuff like that was trying to stay organized. But I definitely remember, and I remember there's these little braids on the floor because my best friend came over and said she was gonna do my hair, and my hair was braided at the time. And then she decided to give me a haircut oh, oh. So there are little braids on the floor. My mother, when she tells that story, she's like, I was walking in and I saw these braids, and I said, what is going on?
- [10:53]
C
When you said sometimes you had the bedroom and sometimes your mom did. Where did your mom sleep when she didn't have it?
- [10:59]
D
Either of us would have slept in the living room. We usually kind of made like a. Made the living room in half and like, the half back side of the living room would be a little divider and like a little futon bed.
- [11:11]
C
How would you describe your upbringing?
- [11:13]
D
My upbringing, huh? You know, New York, New York City, lot of. Lot of chaos, a lot of noise, a lot of energy. My mother was a single mother, so it was just her and I growing up, which I didn't really pay any attention to. Like, that was my road dog. So is, by the way, my road dog. And so didn't really, you know, it wasn't like a thing. She was definitely tough, though.
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C
Yeah? How so?
- [11:42]
D
She's the tough one. You can't have a daughter in New York City and not have a backbone. You know what I mean? You really, really cannot. And she was not here to play around. The whole neighborhood knew not to play around with Ms. Terry. Like, it's not to this day. People know not to play around with Ms. I know not to play around with Ms. Terry. But I love that about her because she taught me that, you know, she taught me like, you have to stand up for yourself, and you have to. You have to be about something. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. You have to show people what you know. What will you take? What will you not take? Where are your boundaries? You have to establish them, you know, and she showed me that by living. She didn't, like, have to tell me that that was how she represented herself. And although it's a little tough sometimes, I appreciate it because, you know, even now, myself as a woman and having to make my way through this industry and these businesses, you know, you have to. You have to stand up for yourself. You have to say, like, this is who I am, and I'm not swaying. So that is a big thing she gave me. But it was a lot of noise, a lot of taking a train, a lot of walking around by myself, a lot of, like, payphone phone calls, because my mother's like, if you don't check in after school, I'm gonna kill you. And I was like, let me find the phone. So I called my mother. Everyone Was like, find the phone so you can call your mother.
- [13:08]
C
Was she the one who wanted piano lessons, or were you?
- [13:11]
D
I wanted the piano lessons. My grandfather got me my first keyboard, maybe for Christmas or something like that. And I started to play a bit like that. And then my mother found a woman who lived in our building who taught piano. And she not only taught me, but also taught my first son. I know. It was so sweet. Margaret Pine is her name, and that makes me want to cry, and it was awesome. So when my. When my son first started showing that he was, you know, had this just natural. He was drawn to the piano as well. He was 4 years old. And I called her. I was like, he's four. Four, but he can filet. And she's like, that's kind of young for a boy. Maybe he was a girl. She might have been like, okay, but for a boy. And we get it, because if we have boys, we know that it's a thing to keep them harnessed. And so she was like, bring him and let me just observe him. And I brought him. And so once a week, I would go back to my old building, and I'd bring him to my building that I grew up in. And every time in all the elevators. Alicia, we haven't seen you in so long. How's your mom? You know, uncle so and so. And, you know, such and such. And it was great because I just got to kind of go back to the Zone. And he learned how to play, and he's an excellent musician now.
- [14:33]
C
Is that amazing?
- [14:34]
D
Yeah. It's really.
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C
What's harder, learning music or motherhood?
- [14:45]
D
Whoa. They're equally challenging in certain ways. You know, I think all of them take patience, Both of them take a strong level of patience, and both of them take a lot of heart. You know, you have to kind of have a lot of heart, a lot of love, a lot of passion, and, you know, you have to also have perseverance. So I think they're quite similar in a strange way. They're both like new languages, too, right? They don't really fit. They don't fully make sense. You have to kind of, like, understand it in your own way, probably. Music.
- [15:23]
C
Music is tougher.
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D
I'm going to say music is harder than motherhood, but both are. Both are very challenging.
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C
Okay, so when you. You got your record deal at 14 and started on your way, was there a time where you. Where you're like, okay, I've made it. Like, when was that moment?
- [15:40]
D
You know, I mean, I think growing up in New York, City, like, and growing up with nothing, you know, I don't know that you ever feel like you made it. You know, I think that that was actually a big thing for me for a lot of times. Just. I just. In a way, I always felt like the floor was going to fall out from under me any second. Like, any second, this was all going to just not be over. Yeah. So I oftentimes kind of just like, maybe that's what gave me so much of my drive and my desire to kind of keep going and going and going and growing because it just felt like any second, you know, how do you. What makes anything last? Right? What makes anything last? And so I. It took a long time for me to feel like that. You know, I could take a vacation or, like, have that space where you're like, no, it's okay. I can step away for a second. You know, I didn't know what that meant for, like, a really long time, so. But I think that's good. You know, it's part of that. There's two parts of that. Part of that is good because there's a. You know, there's a. There's a strength and a drive, and that's. I think you can get comfortable, and then that is when you can lose certain energy. But you also have to give yourself grace and love and time to rejuvenate and regenerate. And that part.
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C
I think that part of the music industry's got to be tough, because I know every time you came out with an album, and I know from working on the Today show for years, right? You came out. The last question we always ask is, like, what's next? What's coming up next? And you're like, I just finished. Please do not ask me what's next.
- [17:17]
D
I don't know.
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C
But there's a constant drumbeat of, you gotta have the next thing. Is there another book? You've got a Broadway show. What's. You know, there's always a shift. Do you always think about the next. Or do you get time to, like, say to yourself, uh, well, you don't.
- [17:35]
D
Get time, but you can take time. You know what I mean? Because otherwise we can all just, like, never have any time and keep on going and fill every moment and every minute. It's very easy to do that, you know, Even when you're almost doing nothing, somehow you're still so busy. Like, why? How did I not have any time for myself? I didn't even do anything today. It's just weird how we do that, you know? What I mean, but so I think that was a big lesson, like creating time, taking time, making time, making space, and learning what that looks like and figuring out. I remember I spoke to a woman and she kind of gave me this. She said, you know, you can design your life. And I was like, ooh. I actually never thought about that. It was weird. I had never thought about designing my life. And she was like, so what does that look like for you? Does that look like, you know, maybe Fridays is a day that you don't want to have any fun phone calls and meetings. Like, you actually just want to take the time to have a peaceful Friday. Maybe you want to do things with your family, maybe you do things with yourself, and then that's like something that you've chosen to do. You make choices, whatever it is, you kind of are designing what feels good for you and taking those moments, maybe it's once a month. And you just know that, you know, in the morning from this time to this time, you're going to have this time for you. Whatever it is, no matter how busy we are or how little help we feel we have as well, we can plan these moments.
- [19:05]
C
I like how you were talking about sometimes with your. With your kids and with your full life. And I feel this way too. It's sort of like you get busy and you're like, I want to spend time, but my kids are coming home, so I can't. Or I wish I had time. And I do that. I play a head game with myself. And I listened to you on a podcast and you said something like, you know, I decided that I was going to take time for myself. And in the end, it changed everything for your kids because I think a lot of people here are struggling with that. Even coming here for this weekend was a big deal. It's hard. They got on planes, they came here, they got outfits, you got babysitters.
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D
Begged you, mother in law, please help me. Yes.
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C
How do you carve out that time without being saddled with the guilt of somebody else? Needs me.
- [19:59]
D
You know, I think it's. Of course, you know, that's the thing about when I said, is this a woman thing? That's the thing about being a woman. Like, we're so amazing. We literally make the world go around. We literally create everything. We are like the harnessers and the alchemists, and we create the magic and the stability and the safety. And so the reason why we're like that, where we over give is truly from such a beautiful place and such a place of love. And care and desire to make things right and good. And, you know, so it comes from a great place, no question. But I remember the first time when we. When we just talked about, how do you. How do you find a closer connection with your intuition? Or how do you create this. This place where you can choose what you want or even hear what you want, Right? Because hearing what you want is also very difficult. More now than ever is so noisy. Everything is so noisy. It's going faster than ever. Time is speeding. I know it's speeding up. I can't believe what it's like. The days, the weeks, the months, they're gone. So it's harder than ever to have focus or to pay attention or to hear. And so I was introduced to this practice, this meditation practice called Kundalini. And it was right after my second son was born, which is definitely harder than the first, because I was like, oh, my. I'm never gonna have a life ever again. The life as I knew it is over. And I couldn't catch the rhythm. Like, I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't get it together. And so when my friend said, you know, there's great. There's this great kind of retreat, you know, how beautiful would it be? We would spend the weekend. We'll be with great people. We'll do this meditation. You'll learn it. Wouldn't it be amazing? And I'm like, yeah, but, like, how do I feed the baby and get the bottle and have the thing? And who's gonna watch him? And is it cool that I'm away for four days? Like, I don't really feel so good. Then wait for four days. There's a lot. And so she was listening to me, listening to me, listening to me. And I was saying, I can't. I can. I can't find the way. And. And then she said, so when was the last time that you did something for yourself? And I was like, I couldn't think of it. I couldn't think of it.
- [22:19]
C
Wow.
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D
And I thought that was such a good question, you know, and that's okay. When was the last time that you did something for yourself? And that also, by the way, doesn't have to be once every two years either. You know, we don't have to be like the martyr. You know what I mean? We can actually fill our souls and our spirits and be replenished and then come back into our lives and feel, you know, capable because we're not so depleted that we can't even. We're not even kind anymore. We're just annoyed and pissed off because, you know, we haven't taken any time for ourselves. So it's like this weird thing that we've somehow been taught that doing something for yourself is like a bad thing or it's not, you know, it's not what we're supposed to do. So I think that that kind of, that understanding really landed on me at that time. And even though I'm also a person that wants to make sure everyone's good and everything's in order. And I love order. I love order. Like it makes me feel when things are in order, like I feel accomplished. You know what I mean? So it's like a thing. And I've also learned how to get comfortable with disorder. That's been unique too. Like actually just sitting in the disorder and being like, I don't have to fix this, it's gonna find its way. But I don't have to fix it. Which is hard.
- [23:50]
C
Hard.
- [23:51]
D
Especially for my personality. It's really hard. Like, I love a bow. Give me a bow. And I wanna tie it. And I wanna say here, the bow. You know what I mean? So that was an unlearning too. So I think there's a lot of unlearning that we have to do. And that's been part of my journey.
- [24:09]
C
What are you doing? Because this meditation practice sounds awesome and amazing. What other concrete things? Like for instance, on a normal day when you wake up to level set yourself so that you're ready for the day, what's your checklist? What do you go through? What do you do?
- [24:25]
D
I love this soul care lifestyle. I really do. That's why I like to call it and this idea that we can care about our souls and it can be also brief. Like it doesn't have to take forever to the point where you're like, man, I can't find time to do it. You can actually find time to do it. So I really do like silence in the morning. I love some type of tuning in, some type of listening, some type of deep breathing. If it's a meditation practice. Sometimes my meditations are three minutes, you know what I mean? Sometimes they're 20 minutes, sometimes they're 11 minutes. 11 is a sweet spot. Seven. Seven. Three is good though. If you could do three, you can do anything, you know what I mean? And so I like those. But even if I'm just breathing deep because I just, I'm so exhausted and it's 5:30 in the morning and I have to wake up Egypt for a 6:30 practice. And I just went to sleep at 1:30. I'm like, damn, I am so tired right now. Sometimes I just need to like sit in the bed for a second and I. Maybe I can't get myself together and do the whole meditation thing.
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C
I.
- [25:29]
D
Deep breathing and breathing in five, holding five, exhaling five and just kind of like some type of. Some type of vision. What I asked myself, what's my highest vision for the day? What's my highest vision for the day? And that could be I want, you know, I'm asking for grace or I'm asking for patience, or it might be, I'm asking for this amazing project that I've been working on for so long to come through and get me to call today, please, whatever it is, what's the highest vision? You know what I mean? And so, and so I kind of put that out there and do some of that. And then I really also love affirmations. I love to create an affirmation in the day, you know, And I love especially creating affirmations when I'm feeling particularly I just kind of feel like I'm in a hump or I kind of feeling anxious or worried about something. You know, I will say like, I am safe and I am protected. You know, the divine will is going to reveal itself. You know, I have clarity and I know what I want, even if I have no idea what I want. The important part is you say you know what you want so that you can eventually know what you want because you're claiming it, you know. So I really love affirmations. That's beautiful. Sometimes I like my candle and kind of have that affirmation and just let that permeate while it's. While I'm getting dressed, whatever the case. And then if I have extra time, like that's, that's like kind of my Egypt has to be up by 5:30 thing. If I have extra time that I loved. I do love journaling. Yeah, I find like a lot of times it's hard to talk to people, you know, I mean, you can talk to folks. Sometimes you have that person you can really talk to. Sometimes you can talk to them. Kind of 50%, you know, the 50% people you can talk to, it's not their fault. But you're just like, I don't know if I can really unload everything. And so I find that the writing is really such. You can just be so honest. And so the stream of consciousness writing is my favorite, which is because, you know, I'm an organizer And I like a bow. So everything that I'm thinking of every word. No, you can't think of every word. You literally just write exactly what you feel. I'm so pissed off this morning. I hate it. I'm so mad that I have to do whatever because, you know, you don't get to grumble and grouch or maybe I'm so excited this morning. There's so much coming on and I gotta. Whatever it is and you just get to. And you're supposed to do three pages of that and just stream of consciousness. And I love that. It always feels like I've released a lot.
- [28:01]
C
We had a cool journaling session this morning that was similar to this this morning. And it was. And her prompt was, think about your dream life in five years, what you would dream for yourself. She goes, and then in that year she said, write about one regular day in your dream life. Start from the moment your eyes open with the sun splashing through the curtains, to the kids running in, if that's the case, to the, you know, to all the things until you close your eyes. And she told me, she goes, I don't believe in manifesting, but I do believe in writing down what will become your dreams, which is a similar idea. Manifestation.
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D
We respect it.
- [28:40]
E
We respect it.
- [28:43]
C
More with Alicia Keys after the break.
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A
Morning, Zoe got donuts.
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B
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
- [29:00]
A
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you. Teach me. So Dana.
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B
Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [29:18]
A
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [29:26]
C
Nice.
- [29:26]
B
Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [29:27]
A
T mobile is the best place to.
- [29:29]
E
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.
- [29:31]
D
Us with eligible traded in any any condition.
- [29:34]
A
So what are we having for lunch?
- [29:36]
B
Dude, my work here is done with.
- [29:38]
E
24 month bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credit same and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com the.
- [29:55]
B
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D
Monopoly here. Monopoly is back at McDonald's. Register in the McDonald's app so you're ready to get your fair two ways to peel for a chance to get your bag physical peels with select items and digital peels with others. To get your bag, play Monopoly at McDonald's.
- [30:46]
E
No purchase necessary. See rolls at play@mcd.com for full details and amoe.play@mcd.com to play without purchase ends November 23rd, but bonus plans November 2nd. Monopoly is a registered trademark of Hasbro. Copyright McDonald's.
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C
By the way, a lot of people have already picked up their keys, candles, and they've gotten them engraved with a single word mantra and the soul care line. This is interesting because Alicia and I have known each other for a long time and you came on the show back when you did no makeup and you came on for different things over the years, but your skin and you, the two of you together have had a dance and a relationship. It's been a struggle, it's been good, but it's changed you and has changed how you deal with stuff internally.
- [31:31]
D
I mean, I think, you know, back to the fact that I, you know, was signed when I was 14 years old and, and then my first album came out when I was 18 or 19. And so all of that stuff happened and it was just like, boom. And I was like, whoa.
- [31:48]
C
Whoa.
- [31:49]
D
I was not ready for that. Like, it was a rocket ship. It was a whole other experience that, you know, there's no way to prepare for. But part of the way, part of the way that I prepared for it was to act like I knew everything, even though I had no idea. I think it was a good idea. But maybe I also put a lot of pressure on myself and obviously all of the moving and the movement and the touring and the flights and all of the things. My skin was just like so mad at me and I was like, wait a minute, but I'm 18. You're not supposed to have this much acne at 18. I'm like 19 wait a minute. I'm 20. I'm 25. Why is it still happening? It was crazy. It was really, really, like, a lot. And I felt. I felt insecure and. No, naturally, you know, everyone kind of can see you, and you feel very exposed, and. And I couldn't get it under control. You know, I couldn't figure it out. And eventually, I guess I recognized that there's multiple reasons why, but most of it really had to do with kind of the toxicity that is all around us. You know, not only is it in the food that we eat, sometimes it's in the people that we allow in our space. Sometimes it's in the energy that we're carrying or the stress, obviously. And so I learned a lot that stress was such a big activator for me and for all of us, you know, stress is like, it's a big one, you know, and it's hard to come to terms with it. So that's why I was like, one day, I'm going to create something that's going to be good for me and my skin. It's going to help me. And I really. I really did. I really wanted to find. I wanted to create something that was going to help my skin. And then I discovered it's not just about the external. It's about the intern. It's about how are you caring for your soul. It is about how are you taking a moment and taking the time? How are you removing negative people and energy from your life, as hard as that is, you know, how are we doing that? And part of that is. And that's why the affirmation piece is such a big part on your candle. As I shine at full wattage. That was a big one for me because I always felt like I was really good at dimming down. I really wanted to dial the light back because I didn't want to be too bright. Don't be too bright. Don't be too much. You know, And a lot of times, I think as women, we do that for some reason to ourselves, like, why? Who told us we can't be bright? When did that start happening? You know? And it happens in our childhood. Sit down, be quiet. You're too loud. Don't be so seen.
- [34:42]
C
Yeah.
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D
Start getting this messaging early on that we're not supposed to. And so. And so this is kind of the concept around soul care. And so the affirmations, each offering, each product offering has an affirmation and the idea that you can say that to yourself as you're using it, you know, I am, I am capable and able. And you can just, or you can take that with you in your day or while you're in your shower. Like my body is divine, you know, whatever it is, you can just, just pour into yourself and remind yourself these things. And so part of that it was when I learned how to. The meditation and the eliminating of the negativity or the claiming of my own personal space, whatever that was, started to, did start to change my skin. Along with these, these different formulations that were clean and used. Beautiful things like manuka honey and rose waters and, and special things that were good for you. But it was really, it's an internal process, I think.
- [35:40]
C
Did you ever go away to like a retreat or do anything you talked about the one that you went to, but are there? Cause I think a lot of people are seeking and we want to try things. Like I want to talk to myself positively, I want to try to meditate. I'm googling it, meditation. But you know, I think sometimes there are daily practices. Like I went to this place called the Hoffman Institute and it is in Petaluma, California and it was a life changer. Alicia. The three most life changing things for me are Hailey, my 8 year old, Hope, my 6 year old, and going to Hoffman.
- [36:15]
D
Oh, wow.
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C
It's like that.
- [36:16]
D
That's a lot of H's.
- [36:18]
C
That's a lot of H's.
- [36:20]
D
Yeah, man, that's so good.
- [36:24]
C
But it was a total and complete. They take what you're talking about, things we're taught when we're little, things that we are experiencing, and they take it by the roots. And it is one week of kind of scary deep diving in. And it is not a change that lasts for the week or even two weeks later. And everyone says, oh, we know you, Hoda, we know how you are. You let everything go. No, you'll say yes, she'll say yes. She's just happy. Don't worry, she'll let it go. And you know, and all of a sudden I was like, I don't think so anymore. You start to get your voice, but sometimes you need a spark. Yes. How did. Obviously that retreat you described had an incredible impact on you. Do you continue your practices kind of other places?
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D
Yeah. I mean, once you know what to do, then you can do it anywhere. Anywhere, which I think is so beautiful. But I do think that there's a level of seeking that is necessary. Necessary and, and sometimes you, you gotta try it. And it might not be, you know, maybe it's not for you. That's okay too. Like, sometimes you go out on a limb, you're like, ah, I didn't even really like that. Or that didn't resonate with me. But that's okay. I think the idea that you're allowing yourself the permission to explore and find things is really important. One of my favorites is actually a book, and the book is by Don Miguel Ruiz, and it's called the Voice of Knowledge. He also wrote the Four Agreements. A lot of people know the four Agreements, but this one is called the Voice of Knowledge. And this book, I remember when I read it, it's short, too. It's potent and it's so short. And it speaks to things that you're like, whoa, I totally do that. Or that's happened to me. Or I see why that might be something that I default to. To or whatever. It's really enlightening. So I love things like that as well, where it can just enlighten you. And even spending time between that and journaling about it, whatever reacted or whatever felt like when that reminded me of this situation in my life. And I want to change that. I think the idea is that we have the desire to go deeper and the desire to dig into those places that are kind of scary to go into. Like you said, you're like. It's like kind of scary going in there. Scary because you don't know what you're gonna find. And there's a lot of emotions attached to it and there's a lot of triggers and, you know, there's a lot of things we have to heal from. But taking at a certain point, it's not everybody else's fault anymore. You know, it's like, what do we want to do about it?
- [39:07]
C
More ahead with Alicia Keys. Stay with us.
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E
They mimic our friends.
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D
They mirror our family.
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B
They share memories we remember.
- [39:23]
C
They ask questions only someone close would know. They speak in the voices we love. They wear our faces.
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E
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- [39:49]
A
Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [39:51]
B
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
- [39:54]
A
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T Mobile commercial like you. Teach me so, Dana.
- [40:00]
B
Oh, no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly AT T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has ultimate pro camera system.
- [40:12]
A
Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
- [40:20]
C
Nice.
- [40:20]
B
Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [40:22]
A
T Mobile is the best place to.
- [40:23]
E
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.
- [40:25]
D
Us with eligible traded in any condition.
- [40:29]
A
So what are we having for lunch?
- [40:30]
B
Dude, my work here is done with.
- [40:32]
E
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C
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- [41:08]
D
Plus its cordless design means you can.
- [41:10]
C
Easily take this gentle fragrance with you from room to room. Airwick Essential Mist ready to gift, ready to uplift. You've had so many cool life experiences that have taught you things. I don't know if you knew this about Alicia Keys, but she's run two marathons.
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D
What?
- [41:31]
C
The one that you ran in Greece, you talked about, about how it taught you some lessons on life. Just what did all of that teach you running that marathon?
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D
It was so deep. So I did choose to do the marathon in Greece because you run from the city marathon to Athens and that's the reason why a marathon is called a marathon. So I was like, okay, that's the one I'm going to do because I'm never going to do it again. So I might as well do one that really mean something, you know, so, so, so I did that, which was incredible and obviously training for it is incredible. But I guess what I remember really it's, you know, it is. I just remember it was a battle between the physical and the mental, you know, because my physical being was like, whoa, this is really hard. But my mental being was like, whoa, this is really hard. And I had to find a way for my mental being to out talk my physical being, you know, and that was really, really incredible because once you get to that place where it's 26.2 miles later, you know, and you find the way to say, you know, I can. I can control my mind, can control my body. It was like a breakthrough. And I remember I was the. I was running with somebody who helped me train, and at some point, I was just like, how are we gonna get there? I don't know how we're gonna get there. And he said to me, you see that pole? We're gonna get to that pole. And then we got to the pole. Okay, you see that traffic light? We're gonna get to that traffic light. And then we got to the traffic light. And that was literally the only way I made it. It was step by step, step by step, and just one small goal to the next small goal, and then we accomplished it. And I felt like I really took away the power of that. You know, it doesn't have to be these big things. It's like breaking it up into these little pieces. It was what helps you finish, you know? So it was big. It was big.
- [43:46]
C
Well, you've bitten off a lot of big things. Have y' all seen Hell's Kitchen? Cause let me tell you something. Hell's Kitchen, there's already a national, by the way. It's in Ohio. It's going to New Orleans. I want to go in New Orleans, too. It's at the Sanger. Love. New. So this show is loosely based on Alicia's life. She's written a lot of. Obviously, the music, she's written the score. She's done the whole thing. That project. Again, for someone who's. Anyone who lives in the music world lives in this lane. Broadway world. Girl, you did it. Tony Award winning. I got it, y'.
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D
All.
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C
It's gonna be there through. Pass through. 26, right? How long is it going to be there?
- [44:26]
D
Yes.
- [44:28]
C
Nothing runs this long on Broadway. Everything comes and goes, but not Hell's Kitchen. What'd you learn from that? Just a quickie on that one. Whoa.
- [44:37]
D
Well, talk about a marathon. It took, you know, 13 years to. To create it, and. And. And it was. And I'm so glad that it did. It allowed me to really understand the process. You know, this was a whole new experience for me, and it is based on my experiences growing up in New York, and it allowed me to really take every single part of it and go to the next step of it, whatever that was meant to be. And oftentimes, I didn't even know what the next step was.
- [45:15]
C
So.
- [45:15]
D
Okay, the first step is that we're going to find a writer, you know, somebody to collaborate with me. And it took a lot of different meetings of a lot of different folks. But when I found the book, writer named Chris Diaz, who wrote the book, is phenomenal. And I knew he was the one because he also grew up in New York. And so we just found ourselves talking all about the New York things. And the things I said, you can't write about New York if you didn't grow up in New York like you have to. And so it was amazing. And that. That became like therapy, you know, Like a. You know, to be able to talk about what it. What it wanted to feel like, and what were the important characters and what were the important, you know, archetypes, really, you know, and that's why when you see the. When you see the musical, you. You will relate to it, because it really is so intergenerational and relatable, like you take away. So that journey allowed us to discover so much, and even it even allowed us to discover. At first, it started to become about Ally, and her love interest name is Nuck. And they started like, take over the whole show. And one day we were like, no, it's not about Ally and her boyfriend. No. And we discovered that the true love story was between Ally and her mother. So it's a mother daughter love story. And you start to recognize, wow. Even though they didn't even. They didn't understand what that was. And so when you start to hear the songs in these ways, you hear them in ways you just never heard them before. I also got the experience of writing new songs and my first musical theater song. I remember Michael Greif is the director. He also did Rent and Dear Evan Hansen. And he's incredible among. Among. Among so many others. And he. We were trying this particular song. I think we were trying to fit in Superwoman. I had this idea for. For Superwoman, and I was like, oh, let's put Superwoman. We're gonna do this. And it's like, Ally and her mom are gonna be battling for who's the Superwoman? And so we tried it, and it didn't work. And so he's like, all right, where's the song? I need the song. I need the song. And I was like, okay, let me figure out how to write the song. And I remember we had this kind of conversation, and the mom says, well, she's 17 and her brain doesn't work. And I was like, that's the song. But the real thing that I learned was how to bet on myself. And for my whole life, I had you Know, because of all the things we spoke about, I had thought that I had to bend and change and try what everybody else wanted me to try and do and how to express. And I thought they were right and that I didn't know much. And I felt like I. You know, who was I to kind of know more than people who had done however many years in the business or whatever that was. And because of that, I made a lot of choices that maybe could have been better. And that's hard, you know, when you kind of, like, made choices based on other people's influence that maybe weren't the best ideas. That's hard. I'm okay if I made not a great choice, because then I'm like, I believed in it, and it's okay. I'm going to learn from it, but that's hard. And so I really recognize that in this universe, I am going to make sure that I'm creating this. I'm going to be the lead producer for this. I am going to be the owner of this ip. This is going to be everything that I maybe didn't know because I was just too young to truly understand what was possible. I'm going to correct it all here. And so it kind of became my redemption in some crazy way. And, you know, and that was scary, scary, scary, scary. I was like, can I do this? Can I deliver all of this in a universe that, yes, I know music, but I don't know this world the same. Can I? Will I be able to see this through? Will this happen? Sometimes I was terrified. I had to ask people for things I never asked people before. It's hard to ask people for stuff we know. We won't even ask them to watch our kids so we can go to a retreat, right? So. But I was like, I have to. I have to. I believe in this so much. I know that it's special. I know that it's what people are going to love. I know that it represents a diversity that we don't often get to see on Broadway or anywhere. I know that this is a story that's a family story, an intergenerational story. I know that this is something special. If I don't ask for it, who's gonna ask, you know? Right. If I don't fight for it, who's gonna fight? If I don't believe in it, who's gonna believe? And that was terrifying. But so when you say all those things, it's more than just what you said. It's way, way more. And so every ticket that Is bought is so big. Not for me, but for all these artists that get their first chance, for all these fellows that we bring in that study, under the directors and under the costume designers and the lighting designers, that hopefully all of the 70% women and people of color that are in the orchestra, because we fought for there to be a larger, wider pool. Like, that is the reason, you know, that's the reason.
- [51:10]
A
Wow.
- [51:12]
C
Just before we go, I mean, everyone traveled here and they're all seeking. Everyone's looking for something. Do you want to just leave this room with a little bit of advice? Because I think sometimes you feel a little. I mean, people feel a little lost sometimes. And you talk about believing in yourself, betting on yourself. That's important. Can we leave the room with some. Just some Alicia Keys wisdom?
- [51:37]
D
Yeah.
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C
Come on, girl.
- [51:38]
D
Well, first of all, I'm so proud of you guys for choosing to be here today. It's such a beautiful energy. That's why when I was back there, I was like, how many times has this happened? This feels really good. It, like, feels. It feels great. So, so proud of you. And congratulations for choosing to show up for yourself and choosing to be open and. And learning and taking in more information and surrounding yourself with the people that are going to feed you more so that you could take it back to the people that you love. And I would just. You know, I would just say that now more than ever, you know, it's such a strange time, and it's such a time full of so much angst and so much concern and worry, and we have so much to be concerned about and we're worried about, but we also have so much to be. Have an opportunity to bring our greatness to. You know, we have the opportunity to bring our kindness to. We have the opportunity to bring our individuality to. We have the opportunity to bring our unique purpose to. Because we all have a purpose. Every single one of us has a special purpose that the other one doesn't have, and we're the only one that carries it. And we have the chance here in this time right now to, like, show up and to choose. Like, I'm not gonna dim my light. I am gonna shine at full wattage. I am going to proceed and pursue the dreams that keep waking me up at night. I am going to choose that even in a difficult situation, I'm gonna be the bridge. I'm not going to be someone that tears people down. I'm going to lift people up. I'm going to keep being the example of the person I wish would come talk to me, show up for me or be there for me. And I think that, that if we can be that person who we wish we had, then that is the beginning of so much deep rooted change that will, that will power through rocket, through anything else that feels destructive. So I believe in us. I really believe in us. I know that we're a beautiful human family and I love the example that's here. So thank you for bringing us together.
- [54:00]
C
Ladies and gentlemen, Alicia Keys. Hey guys. Thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. Thanks to our sponsors, Keys, Soul Care Dose, Cricket Breezcape and M&Ms. Making spaces. Produced by Allison Berger, Alexa Cassavecchia, Ashley Williams and Mitch Rissmiller, along with Kate Saunders. Our audio engineers are Kenny Villalobos and Joe Plord. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Least is the executive vice president of today and lifestyle.
- [55:09]
D
Mr. Monopoly here monopoly is back at McDonald's. Register in the McDonald's app so you're ready to get your bag. Two ways to peel for a chance to get your bag physical peels with select items and digital peels with others. To get your bag, play Monopoly at McDonmy's.
- [55:30]
E
No purchase necessary. See rules at play@mcd.com for full details and amoe.play@mcd.com to play without purchase ends November 23rd, but bonus play ends November 2nd. Monopoly is a registered trademark of Hasbro. Copyright McDonald's.