Big Sean on the Power of Peace and Purpose

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Making Space with Hoda Kotb

Episode: Big Sean on the Power of Peace and Purpose
Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Hoda Kotb
Guest: Big Sean

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and deeply introspective conversation, Hoda Kotb sits down with Grammy-nominated rapper and now author, Big Sean. The episode explores themes of purpose, resilience, personal peace, and inner growth. Big Sean candidly reflects on his rise to fame, battles with addiction and mental health, finding contentment beyond success, and the transformative power of family, creativity, and mindfulness. Rich in relatable stories, practical wisdom, and vulnerable admissions, this episode is a guide to making space for self-acceptance and self-care.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Success and Purpose

• Chasing Hits vs. Chasing Happiness

  • Big Sean reflects on his early career, driven by external milestones, only to realize that, “the feeling you're really looking for is unconditional, for real. But you're looking for it in something that's conditional.” (03:12)
  • Creative fulfillment, for him, ultimately stemmed from creating for love, not validation.

• Creative Acts as True Joy

  • “There's nothing more creative than creating a creation... whether you're making a song, whether you're making a book, whether you're making a human being, whatever it is, you know, creating.” (03:46 – Big Sean)

2. Childhood, Imagination & Overcoming Doubt

• Raised in a Motown-influenced household, Big Sean grew up “fearless, happy… just had a crazy imagination” (04:38).

• Despite early naysayers doubting a Detroit kid could make it, Sean persisted:

  • “I just looked at it as, there's gotta be a way. I wasn't trying to prove anybody wrong... I was really just pursuing my passion.” (06:50)

• Found success through consistency and self-belief, recounting selling mixtapes at school and now having a recording studio named after him at his former high school (07:40).

3. Challenges of Fame & Mental Health

• Fame’s Pressures:

  • Fame brought unexpected responsibilities and stress. “Especially when you're the only one from your environment... it's like if you're emitting light… the moss and the things… are going to be coming at you and they like pulling at you.” (08:32)

• Burnout & Addiction:

  • After early career success, Sean “crashed out around [his] third album” due to overwork and losing touch with himself.
  • He revealed his struggle with Adderall addiction: “Once you cut that out cold turkey, you're like completely depressed… I had to redo my foundation completely. And that took me a couple years, honestly…” (09:34–11:53)
  • Realization: the mind, body, and spirit are interconnected, and self-care is non-negotiable.

4. Happiness, Simple Joys, and Family

• Happiest Moments:

  • Sean identifies a core childhood memory as his happiest: “We saw The Empire Strikes Back, and I remember we went to McDonald's right before and had a 20 piece nugget. That was like one of the happiest days of my life. I can't explain why.” (14:13)
  • Importance of family, especially his grandmother—a WWII veteran whose story was depicted in a film (15:10–16:04).

• Perspective on Loss:

  • “If I lost it all, it wouldn’t be losing it all because I gained so much already that that can't even be monetized.” (18:12)
  • The richness of experience and wisdom is invaluable.

5. Writing the Book: "Go Higher"

• The title “Go Higher” originated from one of his songs, later expanded “to give it more of an action” (18:57).

• Sean doubted he had enough life for a memoir but realized, “Success is a feeling. It's an emotion. It's a happiness… I am one of the most successful people in the world if you look at it like that.” (19:33)

• His book is intended as “armor” for readers, especially those who might not have the support he had from his family.

• Recommended Books:

  • Inspired by his mother to read works like The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success, Ask and It Is Given, The Four Agreements, The Alchemist, and others to jumpstart his own spiritual growth (21:06).

6. Speaking Out About Mental Health

• Big Sean openly discusses struggles with depression and suicidal thoughts:

  • “There was a time where I definitely wanted to like, off myself. I was done, you know, life was just too much for me to handle.” (22:06)
  • His faith and inner work helped him through: “God… going within… digging deep, like soul searching. I had to re-establish my faith, trust in my faith.” (23:08–23:36)

• Limiting social media to protect mental space:

  • “I don't read comments like I used to at all. Just lately I've realized how fast time is going… I put my time back into my craft.” (24:51)

7. Therapy, Healing, and Practice

• Therapy has been crucial for him “on and off for years.”

  • “The beauty about therapy is… you can unload and you just leave it there and you feel so much lighter.” (27:30–28:19)

• Encourages loved ones, including his father, to try therapy despite cultural stigma.

• Sees therapy as trial and error: “It's like finding the right barber or the right restaurant.” (29:22)

8. Daily Practices for Peace

• Sean's ideal “just for me” day is simple: waking up late, journaling, meditating, watching anime, making music, and “enjoying my solitude.” (29:54–30:51)
• Finds joy both in solitude and with family, especially his son.
• The birth of his son was a “soul shifting” transformation, awakening his “inner child” and sense of wonder (31:17–31:20, 34:47–35:39).

9. Parenting, Presence & Wisdom

• Hoda and Sean reflect on the importance of mindful parenting—focusing on the whole being: mind, body, spirit, and emotions, teaching kids to ask themselves what they need (32:07–32:32).

• Sean emphasizes separating self-worth from external success, a lesson that took him years to learn (32:52).

• Wisdom from Will Smith:

  • “All you gotta do is give them some water and some sunlight and get out of the way. Don't try to twist those branches.” (34:19—Will Smith, paraphrased by Hoda)

• Reconnecting with nature and joy through his son:

  • “I've been like looking at the trees, and I'm like, man, this is a real nice tree.” (35:39)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Finding Purpose Outside Success:

  • “What I really was looking for is just purpose, happiness, and to be inspired and to be able to create.” (03:12 – Big Sean)

• On Dealing with Pressure:

  • “You’re scared to lose it… You overwork yourself and realize that, no, that's moving out of desperation. That's actually a fear based way.” (09:34)

• On Healing and Interconnectedness:

  • “Your physical is part of your mental, and your mental is part of your spiritual, and your emotional is part of your physical. And everything is just all interconnected.” (11:53)

• Return to Basics for Happiness:

  • “I didn't have much growing up and I was happy, too.” (18:12)

• Experience as True Wealth:

  • “Even if I went back to exactly where I started, it wouldn't be the same place in a lot of ways.” (18:52)

• On Suicidal Thoughts:

  • “There was a time where I definitely wanted to like, off myself… life was just too much for me to handle.” (22:06 — Big Sean)

• Self-Care Tools:

  • “This book, these practices that I do, it's like putting armor on… life can do anything it wants to do, but it doesn't dictate your happiness.” (20:33)

• Advice from Will Smith:

  • “All you gotta do is give [kids] some water and some sunlight and get out of the way.” (34:19—paraphrased by Hoda)

• Inner Child and Fresh Perspective:

  • “I enjoy seeing life through my son's eyes… It has awakened my inner child again.” (34:47–34:53 – Big Sean)

• On Letting Go After Setbacks:

  • “If things don't go my way, I kinda just like, I'll still feel it, it'll sting. But I'll be like, that's it, man.” (33:49)

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | Summary | |------------|-------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------| | 03:12 | Pursuing Purpose Over External Validation | Sean discusses shifting from chasing numbers to pursuing fulfillment | | 06:50 | Overcoming Doubt as a Young Detroiter | Sean on resisting naysayers and staying focused | | 09:34 | Burnout, Addiction, and Hitting Bottom | Details his Adderall dependency and depression | | 14:13 | Happiest Childhood Memory | Star Wars and 20-piece chicken nuggets | | 18:12 | Perspective on Losing Success | Why he's not afraid to lose it all | | 19:33 | Book Writing & Redefining Success | Why he finally wrote "Go Higher" | | 22:06 | On Suicidal Thoughts | Speaking openly about depression's depths | | 27:30 | Therapy and Healing | Approaches to therapy and breaking stigma | | 29:54 | His Perfect Solo Day | Journaling, meditation, music, anime, and solitude | | 31:17 | Impact of Fatherhood | How his son transformed his perspective | | 32:07 | Mindful Parenting with Hoda | Both share their approaches (mind/body/spirit/etc.) | | 34:19 | Will Smith’s Parenting Advice | Letting kids be themselves | | 36:16 | Daughter’s “Another Tree” Moment | Hoda shares her daughter's life lesson |

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Tone & Style

The tone of the episode is deeply earnest, vulnerable, and at times playful. Big Sean is reflective, open, and wise, with a casual and approachable delivery. Hoda Kotb is warm, empathetic, and insightful, fostering a space for honesty and real connection.

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Takeaways

• Success is less about external validation and more about self-acceptance, growth, and creation.
• Fame did not shield Big Sean from struggles with mental health, addiction, or doubts about purpose; acknowledging and addressing them was key.
• Therapy, faith, supportive family, and daily practices (journaling, meditation) are essential for his peace and motivation.
• Parenting and seeing the world through a child’s eyes renews appreciation for simple joys and present moments.
• Vulnerability about mental health can be a gift to others still in the struggle.

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Final Thoughts

Big Sean’s interview is a testament to the power of self-reflection, vulnerability, and inner work. His journey from ambitious Detroiter to world-famous artist (and new author) is relatable not for its glamour, but for his honesty about setbacks, lessons, and healing. Hoda Kotb’s genuine engagement elicits memorable stories and universal wisdom, making this episode both a comfort and an inspiration for anyone seeking greater peace and purpose.

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Transcript

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[Hoda Kotb]

What does.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Going higher look like for you? For my guest today, it means sobriety, journaling and daily practices of self acceptance. Big Sean is the artist behind some of the most noteworthy hip hop songs of the last two decades, but today he is using his voice on a different medium, this time a book fulfilling a lifelong goal to call himself an author, though Big Sean is quick to tell you go five Practices for Purpose, Success and Inner Peace is not just a book, it's a culmination of years of personal and professional growth. Driven by his own desire to empower others, Big Sean feels a strong calling to share insights from his experiences. As we chat today, Big Sean opens up about his big break, his battle with addiction and the implications of becoming finally famous. Plus why a 20 piece nugget meal from McDonald's still holds a special place in his heart. I found him to be equal parts endearing and full of wisdom. This conversation marks the first for Big Sean and me. And let me tell you, his voice? Not a bad one to spend a little while listening to. I'm Oda Kotb. Welcome to my podcast Making Space.

[Hoda Kotb]

First of all, I am so happy to be sitting with you. I've never had the opportunity and I've heard so many awesome things about the life you're living.

[Big Sean]

That's good.

[Hoda Kotb]

And I feel like you're in a phase and I want to get to your whole life, but you are in this moment right now where you have found something that people are seeking. It's like the Rosetta Stone. It's like I kind of got it.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

What's the thing that you feel like.

[Hoda Kotb]

You'Ve found at this point in your career that you didn't have for many years prior.

[Big Sean]

I think before. You're kind of chasing a feeling. You're kind of chasing whatever it is you're chasing. Like, for me, it was like I was chasing, like, certain records or certain things, and a lot of times I would get those things. And then I realized that it was kind of like a dopamine hit, right? So you got to, like, keep doing and keep doing it. And you realize that the feeling you're really looking for is unconditional, for real. But you're. You're looking for it in something that's conditional. Something that's like database numbers based, statistical, you know, statistics. And those things are great. But what I have now is just a perspective and understanding of it all. And I realized that it's like, you know what? For real, what I really was looking for is just, like, purpose, happiness, and to be inspired and to be able to create. To be able to make something out of nothing. That's one of the, like, come on. That's like one of the most. There's nothing more creative than creating a creation, you know, it's like one of the most beautiful things you could do. Whether you're making an art piece, whether you're making a song, whether you're making a book, whether you're making a human being, whatever it is, you know, creating.

[Hoda Kotb]

That'S what you do. It's so funny because when you probably. I'm trying to picture you as just a little, little boy when you were just young and you were thinking about, like, you know, you're doing what all the kids do.

[Big Sean]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

What were you like as a little kid?

[Big Sean]

As a little kid, I mean, I was, like, fearless, happy, definitely. I just had a crazy imagination. Like, I could imagine myself in any situation, you know. I think that's why even when I first was really getting to rap and, like, music in general. Cause I grew up in a Motown household, so I grew up like Stevie Wonder, always on Diana Ross Temptations, you know what I mean? Like, so on. And so Marvin Gaye, that was like, one of my mom's favorite was Marvin Gaye, Isley Brothers, Aretha. So anyway, I grew up in a house of that music. But when I really started getting into rap, I was like, oh, I could do this, like, for real. And like, at like, 10 or 11 years old. I saw it already.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wait, you saw it?

[Big Sean]

Yeah, I saw it. Like, I saw me doing that. I saw me, like, perform. And I. I Felt it and I just, like went with it. And I just knew that that was at least part, like, back then. I thought that was like my life's journey. And I'm not saying it isn't, but, you know, it's a lot more to.

[Hoda Kotb]

It now to be a 10 or 11 year old kid and to know, like, most 10 and 11 year old kids. You knew?

[Big Sean]

Yeah, I knew. I wasn't, like, skeptical about it. I wasn't like, oh, I would love to. I was like, oh, this is what I'm gonna do.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay. So somebody put in your brain that, A, you could do anything, right? B, that you had limitless potential. That abundance was all around. Like, somehow that was all.

[Big Sean]

But I got a lot of hate, though.

[Hoda Kotb]

Why?

[Big Sean]

I don't know. It was a lot of people from, I think coming from Detroit, the only rapper that was like, on that level was Eminem at the time. You know what I'm saying? Like, and they just. Yeah, I just got told a lot. Like, it just doesn't really happen. Like, it's not really gonna happen like that. Being from Detroit, like, you're not as weird as that sounds, right? Cause there's Motown, there's all these incredible people. But for some reason, I just got told that so many times and I'm like, I don't get. Why not?

[Hoda Kotb]

Like, well, okay, so here's a question then. If someone's pounding on you, saying, it's not gonna be you, it can't be you. It's never gonna be you. Not someone from Detroit. Like, how does that person. Cause your ego has to be fragile. You're not. You've never really done it right.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

What made you think y' all are wrong and I'm right?

[Big Sean]

I just looked at it as, there's gotta be a way. I wasn't trying to prove anybody wrong. I wasn't even trying to prove, like, any small doubts that I had wrong. I just was, like, really just pursuing my passion. And I feel like I realized in life when I just did things out of the love of it, like, that's when things just fell into place, you know? Like, I would record music, I sell it around my high school, you know, for like three to five dollars for these CDs I pressed up, shot my album cover at Sears, and I would get in trouble for that. But then, like, I remember a few years ago when I went back to my high school and they have a whole Big Sean recording studio in the school now with, like, my platinum plaques all on the wall and kids learning how to record and being comfortable in front of the mic and learning the engineering aspect of it. But, like, I was just doing that, you know, it was a complete 180. Cause I would get in trouble for it. I would get suspended for that sometimes. And then, like, I would be doing, like, open mics and, like, battle rapping and doing this show at the radio station every week. And it was. No, I wasn't getting paid for it, but I just felt like it was my job. And I realized that when I did get an opportunity to meet, you know, one of my idols and rap form, that I was prepared for that moment. So.

[Hoda Kotb]

You know what's funny? Once you get the thing you want that you've dreamt of, a lot of things come with it, and they're kind of like golden handcuffs. You are the one. You get people calling your name, you're making money. All these things that you think you want.

[Big Sean]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

What did you find when you were in the middle of that whole kind of fame, money, tornado?

[Big Sean]

There's so many, like, people that feel like they deserve so many things from you or that it's your responsibility to take care of certain people. It can be very stressful. And it could be. Especially when you're the only one from your environment that is doing what you're doing. It's almost like everyone, you know, it's like if you're emitting light, it's like a lot of the moss and the things are going to be coming at you and they like pulling at you. You know what I'm saying?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Big Sean]

So it was stressful. And I remember being in New York, and I had just finished my first tour, and I remember my business manager sitting me down and going over my finances. And it was literally right around the corner from here, where we're at now. And I was just like, dang, my whole life just changed.

[Hoda Kotb]

When a lot of things start to come, I mean, you fell upon some hard times.

[Big Sean]

Absolutely.

[Hoda Kotb]

What happened? When was what. What happened that brought you to your knees?

[Big Sean]

I mean, I always heard the expression that God doesn't give you what you want. God gives you what you need, and. Or you make plans and God laughs at it. And you see you realize that the hard way. And, you know, you got to build yourself up to realize that you're here for a reason. And sometimes what you want and what you need lines up, and sometimes it doesn't line up, and that can be very hard for you. So there have been times where, like, I overworked myself. I didn't realize the importance of balance. I didn't realize the importance of taking care of myself because when you come from a place like Detroit and when it finally does happen for you, to a certain extent, it's like you're scared to lose it. So you got to keep the momentum up. You got to like really like stay consistent. You got to stay hot. And you overwork yourself and realize that, no, that's moving out of desperation. That's actually a fear based way of looking at it. It's like you really gotta accept that you're meant to be here. Like this was meant for you. This is your life. Until you. Until you say so, you know what I mean? You're the one in control of that aspect of it. And I crashed out. I definitely crashed out around my third album. After my third album, I was just trying to do too much and touring and just completely lost sight of myself because it was just all work. I didn't factor in any me time. I didn't factor in watching anime or doing anything that I liked. I lost touch of everything that I like to do and I didn't even recognize myself anymore. And it was a blaring, painful moment because I felt hopeless and I felt like I didn't even know myself. So I had to step away from everything for a while. And I also was like taking Adderall, which I wasn't prescribed it, and it was like a very addictive type of drug that really gave me like a false confidence. And I realized that later on, the dopamine that your brain creates when you're on a drug like Adderall is false dopamine. So it shuts off the natural dopamine your brain makes. And once you cut that out cold turkey, you're like completely depressed. You're like have no inspiration and everything is just hard. And I had to really go through figuring myself out. I had to redo my foundation completely. And that took me a couple years, honestly, but I was able to reconnect with myself spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally. I got in shape, you know, I re. I didn't know how much everything was so related until then. Like, your physical is part of your mental, and your mental is part of your spiritual, and your emotional is part of your physical. And everything is just all interconnected, you know, So I had to learn that the hard way. And. But I'm glad I did because it just, it really taught me how to move more efficient and to realize what really is important to me and what isn't, you know, I mean, I think.

[Hoda Kotb]

That that's a big lesson for a guy who's as young as you are. Because I think your average person would think you've got all the things. And like they say with most things. I remember I interviewed Magic Johnson and I asked him, I said, when were you your happiest? And he said, I'll tell you when I was my happiest. I'm sitting on the dorm room floor with Cookie, who was my girlfriend at the time. When we're scraping together nickels and quarters to get a slice of pizza and two Cokes. He said that day, of all the things he's done and of all of the fame and of all of the things he's been through that spoke to him. That's when he wanted for nothing. Everything.

[Big Sean]

He wanted that man, Magic, Another Michigan boy. Yeah. That is wild. That's crazy.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

But it's like. So if you were to look at.

[Hoda Kotb]

Your life and say to yourself, this was when I was my happiest, or maybe that day's yet to come. You know, you talk about your grandma a lot, which I feel like is very. Like you have such a strong connection with her. Someone who believe.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

But is there a moment in your.

[Big Sean]

Life where you say, aha, man. A moment where I think that, like, where I was my happiest. Happiest. Wow. I remember when I had my son, not only was it happy, but it was just like soul shifting. That was like a. Like it was like happy, but it was so many emotions at once that it was like a transformation. But like when I was at my happiest, though, like, just pure.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Big Sean]

Happy. Let me think. Definitely had to be. When I was, like, younger and I really had happy times with like, my dad and like my mom together. Like, one of the things I really loved the most is like a core memory is like when we went to go see Star Wars. I know that sounds funny, but we saw like the Empire Strike Backs. And I remember we went to McDonald's right before and had a 20 piece nugget. And that was like one of the happiest days of my life. And I can't explain why though. I really can't.

[Hoda Kotb]

Because it was everything.

[Big Sean]

Yeah. It just was everything.

[Hoda Kotb]

You remember the 20 piece?

[Big Sean]

Yeah, it was a 20. It was the first time getting a 20 piece. It was. It was like. And we were eating it and we saw Star wars and it was just like a perfect night. Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's very beautiful, I have to say.

[Big Sean]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

To have that memory.

[Big Sean]

Yeah. The book goes, I just met George Lucas too. Like, oh, yeah. And I thought about that when I, when I met him and his, his wife. I told him about that, actually.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

He did?

[Big Sean]

Yeah. I don't know if he cared that much, but I definitely met him. I saw him at the. Tyler Perry invited me to the 6AAA premiere because my grandma was in the.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

6 Triple A. I read about that.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's pretty extraordinary.

[Big Sean]

Yeah, she was in a six triple A and she was very modest. Like she didn't ever really talk about what she did, but we had her pictures all around our house, you know, and it was so crazy how that movie brought all the pictures to life. And it was just like you saw, like, I remember she was telling us about how she was seasick going from the south to Europe and there was no one to come for her. They just handed her a bucket and she just had to deal with it, however long that trip takes. And just, you know, being a real. I always thought she was incredible, but. But my whole life, people would be like, you don't agree how important your grandma is. You don't understand, like the impact. And I was so happy that he told that story.

[Hoda Kotb]

That was beaut.

[Big Sean]

I know it's beautiful and I'm happy. It's like one of the most popular movies on Netflix and stuff and Oscars nominated and all that.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

More with Big Sean after the break.

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[Big Sean]

Up to.

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[Hoda Kotb]

A lot of people who worked as hard as you to get where you are wonder and worry that it may be an irrational fear. But, like, what if it all goes away, right? Do you care if it all goes away?

[Big Sean]

I used to. I used to be, you know, afraid of that. But I do believe fear is just false evidence appearing real. So I feel like, I mean, I, I didn't have much growing up and I was happy, too. You know, I was happy, sad. Had all the ups and downs then, too. Like, so I realized that, yeah, if I lost it all, it wouldn't be losing it all because I gained so much already that that can't even be monetized. I gained the experiences, the knowledge, the wisdom. You know, even if I went back to exactly where I started, it wouldn't be the same place in a lot of ways. So, no, I'm not really afraid of any of that.

[Hoda Kotb]

Go Higher. I like the name. Who came up with the name? It's brilliant.

[Big Sean]

Well, Go Higher. The name came about because at first I was writing a book and each chapter was like a name of one of my songs. And I have a song called Higher. And then we were going to call the book Higher and we were like, it kind of needs more of an action to it, so then it'll go higher. And then I got rid of the idea of, like, naming all the chapters. But that's how the title came about is, like, Go Higher.

[Hoda Kotb]

An author isn't a big step. I heard you talking to Jay Shetty, and he was, he originally had said, like, come on, you got to write a book.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

You got to write a book.

[Hoda Kotb]

You got a lot to say.

[Big Sean]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did you not think at that stage, I don't have enough to say for a book?

[Big Sean]

Yeah. You know, because sometimes you look, it's like you're not. You look at yourself and you're like, I'm not the most successful person in the world. I'm not the most. Like, it's not like I have a degree. And, you know, you think all these, like, things, but they're just the doubts in your mind. And then one of the things I asked myself is, how do you measure success? And to me, success is A feeling. It's an emotion. It's a happiness. And I was like, well, maybe I am one of the most successful people in the world if you look at it like that, because I realized how special it is even to just be here, right? How happy I am to just wake up and get it going. Even as crushing as life can be sometimes, like, if you go based off the circumstances, you know, one of the reasons I wanted to write the book is because this book, these practices that I do, it's like putting armor on. Like, all of that stuff can't affect you. It can't hit you. It can't penetrate you. It's like, you know, the armor catches, and you could take your armor off at the end of the day, and life can do anything it wants to do, but it doesn't dictate your happiness. The whole point of the book is just to, like, you know, help people out. I had people like my grandma. I had people like my mom, who's so fire. You know, all of these teachers around me. I had, like, great family members. And a lot of people don't have that. A lot of people didn't get those ideas. You know, when I wanted to be a rapper and I told my mom and rap for her, she was the first person I rapped for. She was like, you can manifest it. You need to read this. You need to do that. And I didn't read the books until I was completely desperate.

[Hoda Kotb]

What books did she want you to read?

[Big Sean]

She was like, read the seven spiritual laws of Success by Deepak Chopra. Read Asking it is given by Esther and Jerry Hicks. Read what you think of me is none of my business. Read the Four Agreements. Read, you know, all of these books that I read later on the Alchemist. And I was just like, damn, like, this is exactly what I needed. But there are a lot of people, even just in my crossings, that will never read them books that really need that advice. So I was really called to, you know, put a lot of these gems in my book, a lot of these things, and just kind of cut the fat down and just give it straight to them.

[Hoda Kotb]

And I think what's important in this book is you talked about your vulnerability, you talked about depression, you talked about suicidal thoughts.

[Big Sean]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So it's not like you're living this life skipping along and trying to spew you advice from the mountaintop. You've been in the trenches, but suicidal.

[Big Sean]

Thoughts, that's definitely been in the trenches for sure.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

That's a big. That's a big revelation.

[Big Sean]

Suicidal thoughts. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I know I'm not alone in that and I know people have thought about it, even people in my family. You know, I've talked about my dad having, you know, in the book he talks about his time he wanted to commit suicide or, you know, depression is something like. I know my brother has had a great deal, you know, so many people, not even just my family. But yeah, there was a time where I definitely wanted to like, off myself. I was done, you know, life was just too much for me to handle.

[Hoda Kotb]

But was that when you were in the. At the peak of your fame and all that, or was it.

[Big Sean]

Yeah, actually was. It actually was. You know, and I look at some of these people, like Chester and like, you know, Linkin park and Kurt Cobain and just I think, like, how does that happen? I see how it happens. You don't have to be, by the way, you don't have to be in any type of like this industry or music or yeah, whatever, entertainment to feel this way.

[Hoda Kotb]

Like, what, what saved you. What saved you from those thoughts?

[Big Sean]

God, I don't even know what else to say. Just. Just really going within, you know what I'm saying? Like digging deep, like soul searching, whatever you want to call it. I don't know, it's just like I had to have faith in myself. I had to re. Establish my faith, Trust in my faith, you know, in the middle of trust is that you. And it's like you got to trust that everything is for the betterment of you, you know, it's for your greater good. You feel me?

[Hoda Kotb]

I feel you.

[Big Sean]

Yeah, you got it.

[Hoda Kotb]

I mean, just to be in that moment and to be able to.

[Big Sean]

Did you.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Who was your.

[Hoda Kotb]

Who's like your 2am phone call? Who do you call when you.

[Big Sean]

My 2am phone call. I'm calling God at 2am there's not too many people I'm calling at 2am Honestly, you know, but I gotta. I definitely have a handful of friends, family members and people I love that I can call on. But I really love that time at night to just go within and like explore myself, you know, because I feel like we can get so lost in this, the world we live in. It's like a. Especially with social media, right. You can easily get on that and just get lost and start comparing your life to everyone else's life or even start living in a whole different reality. So it's like you really got to put in perspective that that is like a conditional thing and that is a tool and it is a beautiful thing, by the way, to be so interconnected digitally with everyone. But you can't let that dictate your life. You can't let that be your center of attention.

[Hoda Kotb]

Do you limit how much you're on there or if you read comments or things like that?

[Big Sean]

I don't read comments like I used to at all. Yeah, I kind of have. Just lately I've just realized how fast time is going and I've been catching myself to just like, put my time back into my craft.

[Hoda Kotb]

There you go.

[Big Sean]

You know what I mean?

[Hoda Kotb]

That's it. Yeah.

[Big Sean]

I was on the phone with my brother. My dad actually had some heart surgery and recently and nothing too major though, but he just was like, man, I just, I don't know when the future got here so fast. That's what my brother said to me. He was like, you know, I'm in my 40s, he said. And I was like, I don't get when that happened. It's just all of a sudden.

[Hoda Kotb]

More.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

To come with Big Sean. Stay with us.

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[Hoda Kotb]

Did you have I mean, you have such great advice in this book. Did you. And you talk about going within a lot of. Did you have therapy? Did someone help you? Did you go to a retreat or, like, Oda.

[Big Sean]

I've done it all. I've done a lot of things. Like, I've literally have gone to mountaintops in the south of France and meditated on them and, like, have mentors. Meditation is big. Yeah. One of my mentors, Marie diamond, was in the movie the Secret. You know, the book. And helped her with the book as well. But I've been to, like, Mount Shasta. I've been to, like, all these places, meditated and all done all that. I've been in therapy for sure, for years, like, on and off, and tried different therapists. And it's been amazing. You know, you gain something from it all. And the beauty about therapy is, like, you could talk to a family member about what you got going, one of your friends, but it kind of stays between y' all then.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Big Sean]

And it gets a little heavy. You burdening somebody who may be going through their own thing. Like, when you in therapy, you can unload and you just leave it there and you feel so much lighter. And it is, like, so worth it for anyone who ever questioned it. You know, I actually got my dad in the therapy.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Big Sean]

From telling him my experience. And he grew up in Monroe, Louisiana, so he grew up in, like, a real racist, you know, during, like, the civil rights movement. And, you know, he would get his beat for being on the wrong side of the train tracks. You know what I mean? So he even grew up having a stutter. And I was just always wondering, like, man, did that come from you being beat? You know what I'm saying? And he overcame his stutter, and he was like, you might be right. You know, and anyway, it's really worth it to anybody who ever is questioning it. And you got. It's like finding. It's like you may have to try different ones. It's like finding the right barber or, like, the right restaurant. You gotta. You're not always gonna get it right off bat, but it's definitely worth it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, your book has got so many great tips, things that people can do. Simple how to. It's not one of those, which I like. And I encourage people to buy the book and dig into it. Cause there'll be a lot of great things.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

If you had a day that was.

[Hoda Kotb]

Just for you, Shaun, you had not one person calling you. You have your house to yourself. You got not one thing on the calendar. Nothing.

[Big Sean]

Nothing.

[Hoda Kotb]

When do you open your eyes? What do you do? How do you feel that day and.

[Big Sean]

When do you close them? I probably wake up around 10:30. I'm chilling, I'm walking outside in the sun, you know, and I'm doing my thing. I like to journal because I like to get it all out of my head, whatever it is I'm feeling or you know, I just do a gratitude journal too if it's like nothing too heavy on me or nothing. And you know, meditate and then I love watching like anime. I love like Dragon Ball Z Attack on Titan, something like that. I love a good movie too. Good shows. A very good like show movie connoisseur. I probably would like, probably go in the studio, either make some music or just listen to some good music for a couple hours. A few hours. What else would I do? I would, I've done this. This is like a day, this is like a couple, I've had a couple of these days and then just do whatever I want to do. Just do whatever I want. I really do enjoy my solitude though.

[Hoda Kotb]

You do?

[Big Sean]

I do. But you know, that's if it was just me.

[Hoda Kotb]

Just you.

[Big Sean]

You know, But I've had perfect days, especially with my son and like my family, I've had so many perfect days, you know, doing some fun activity.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're probably going to give him one of those Star Wars 20 nugget days that he's going to remember when he's your age and say I remember that day.

[Big Sean]

And they prob didn't mean that much to my dad.

[Hoda Kotb]

You know, he probably didn't remember it.

[Big Sean]

Hardly or my mom. They probably were like, oh yeah, having.

[Hoda Kotb]

A son was transformative for you, wasn't it?

[Big Sean]

Yeah. Oh my God.

[Hoda Kotb]

Tectonic plates.

[Big Sean]

Yeah. And what about your kids?

[Hoda Kotb]

I've got an 8 year old and a soon to be 6 year old. She'll be 6 this week. And they are, yeah, like they've changed everything for me. And part of the reason that I chose to kind of switch career paths at this moment was because of what you said about time. Because time goes, you can't get it back and you need to sit kind of in the moment where you are and like I'm trying to teach my kids, just probably like you're teaching yours. I teach mine in the morning. Like I said, think about this, think about your spirit, think about your body, think about your mind and think about your emotions and ask those parts of you what do you need? So my body sometimes needs to go to a soul Cycle class and sometimes just needs a hot shower.

[Big Sean]

That's right.

[Hoda Kotb]

My intellect sometimes wants to listen to a really good podcast. And sometimes I want to have a really meaningful conversation with a dear, my emotional self. I know I want to snuggle with my kids. I missed it last night. My spirit, I need more convos with God today. So I have. So I said, though, here's our mini roadmap for the day.

[Big Sean]

Just a little.

[Hoda Kotb]

Just for today.

[Big Sean]

I love that. That's the power of separation too. I love that.

[Hoda Kotb]

And you can. And you ask that part of you, what do you need? And so I was trying to get my kids to. Cause, you know, we're sort of shaping them and I'm, you know, I'm concerned. Like, am I doing it right?

[Big Sean]

Am I messing up? They're probably like, oh, God.

[Hoda Kotb]

They're like, my spirit wants ice cream, as does my body, my mind and the rest of me.

[Big Sean]

Yeah, but just that, you know what that foundation you laying on. Because I used to be like that too. And I'm sure you used to be like that too, when you were little, you know, it all makes sense later on. It really does, you know, and I love that you separate that because a lot of people tie everything in together. And that's one of the biggest mistakes I used to make with my life. I used to tie in things going my way with me being happy or things not going my way with me being unhappy. Those are two separate things. You know what I'm saying? If something don't go my way, say I put something out and it doesn't do what I want it to do. Song album There have been times where they've done over exceeding and times where it'd be like, oh, this the one and it is not the one. And it's like it'll control my mood, my happiness. But I've kind of separated it to where if things don't go my way, I kind of just like, I'll still feel it, it'll sting, but I'll be like, that's it, man.

[Hoda Kotb]

Let it go, let it go.

[Big Sean]

You know, And I'm sure that my heroes, like, I got a chance to work with Will Smith. Like, I'm sure Will Smith has had amazing success and sometimes things don't go his way. But it ain't like he gave up. It's just, you go move on, Denzel, you know what I'm saying? Or Jay Z or whoever, Eminem. It's like sometimes it do, sometimes it don't. And that just is what it is. You gotta keep going, though. You can't let it take you under because that's where the greatness is made.

[Hoda Kotb]

Will Smith gave some good advice when I did an interview with him, and he said, he's talking about raising kids. And he goes, what you gotta do? He said, they're perfect, right? All you gotta do is give them some water and some sunlight and get out of the way. Don't try to twist those branches. Don't try to make them grow the way you want them to grow. Just let them be.

[Big Sean]

And he gave me great advice too, about my son. He's just saying, like, like, you doing, like, don't worry, like, you know, just you're. You're a great dad because you care.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Big Sean]

Because I can just tell, like, just because you, the way you're talking, you care. So many people that don't care, especially men. You know what I'm saying? He was like, there are a lot of people who are disconnect. But he was like, you care so much. I could tell. So. And you know, one of the things is, like, I enjoy seeing life through my son's eyes. I enjoy, like, looking at things from his perspective because it has awakened my inner child again. It's taught me to have fun with everything I can. You know what I'm saying? It's taught me to really reconnect with nature too, because he just loves outside. He loves, like, flowers and like animals, you know what I'm saying? And things like stuff that we would never notice twice. Yeah. Stuff that we get desensitized by a little bit, that we'll be like, oh, the tree. But I've been like, you know, looking at the trees, and I'm like, man, this is a real nice tree.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, listen.

[Big Sean]

You know what I'm saying?

[Hoda Kotb]

So my five year old, who's about to turn six, I was deciding whether or not I should stay here, and she was climbing the same tree in our front yard, which is literally as tall as maybe the ceiling. So she climbs up and down, up and down, up and down. So I said to her, I was standing at the bottom. I go, look at you, Hopi. I said, you're on top of the tree again. I go, now what are you gonna do? And she looked down at me and she goes, I guess I'll just find another tree. And I go, what? Wow. She goes, another tree. And I was like, another tree, another tree. That was, for me, like, another tree, another tree.

[Big Sean]

They teach you if you listen, because.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Often we're talking over them and telling.

[Hoda Kotb]

Them what to do and don't do that and don't do this. But if we listen.

[Big Sean]

Yeah, no, I only tell him don't do something when he's about to kill himself on accident. You know, you gotta let your kids be free, though. You do to a certain extent. Like, you know, he loves jumping on a trampoline. Like, I let him. Like, you know, I'm not gonna let you jump off of the trampoline, but, like, no, that's amazing. And I'm so Hoda. You don't understand the impact you had on so many people. Like, when I, you know, was talking about I was coming to New York and the stuff I had to do and I brought you up everyone's eyes. I talked to what? She's amazing. Like, I didn't already know that. But you, the impact you've made is immeasurable. You know, the happiness, the energy you brought, your impact is felt wholeheartedly. And, you know, you get you entering in your new chapter. Come on. Very proud of you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, thank you. And this is what you do best. You take the spotlight off of you and turn it on someone else. Touche. Okay. You're awesome. Buy Big Sean's book. It's gonna be amazing. Thank you for sitting with me today. You are as lovely as everybody said. I knew it a thousand times over. Not only are you, you know that when they say that there' genius in your music, it's evident and clear, but you're also just an awesome human being, so.

[Big Sean]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. It was a true pleasure. I'm trying to see is there anything else, anything else that we want to say? And plug the. The book. You got the book.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

You got any music coming out that.

[Hoda Kotb]

We need to talk about?

[Big Sean]

New music is on the way. Of course. Of course. Shout out to my mom and my dad. I know they were going to be watching this. Yeah. And just thankful for everyone who's played a part along. Along the journey. Well, you're awesome so far.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love you. Thanks for coming.

[Big Sean]

Thank you. Love you, too. Appreciate it.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

[Hoda Kotb]

And make sure you tell your friends.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Follow us on Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you're listening. Listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Alison Berger and Alexa Casavecia along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli Our audio engineers are Katie Lau, Bob Mallory and Mark Yoshi Zumi. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Least is the executive vice president, President of today and lifestyle.

[Geico Fan]

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[Podcast Host / Narrator]

I'm always honored to meet fans out in the wild.

[Geico Fan]

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[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Well, the Geico app is top notch.

[Geico Fan]

I know you get asked this all the time, but could you sign it?

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Sign what? The app.

[Big Sean]

Yeah, sure.

[Geico Fan]

Oh, that means so much. Oh, it rubbed off the screen when I touched it. Could you sign it again?

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Anything to help, I suppose.

[Geico Fan]

You're the best.

[Big Sean]

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