A (5:30)

Wow. Right?

B (5:31)

And it was Tennessee uniform, Don Knotts and Andy Griffith. And I go do the show and now I'm dancing. It was 12 beautiful girls with me. And we were dancing, right? We were at NBC Studios. And this guy comes up to me and he says, do you have an agent? Well, he was an agent for them, you know, how they service you, you know, when you. Whatever. And he was servicing the show. So I looked at him and I said, actually, I don't have an agent. You know, I'm a dancer. And he gave me his card and said, I'd like to see you on this day, blah, blah, blah, blah, at William Morris. And I went, oh, wow, that's a big agency. But being in New York, being a young girl, I didn't really trust anybody. I mean, it's like, yeah, sure, you know, agent, no, woo, no problem. Well, I totally forgot about it. And I was in my apartment and I got a call. They must have called the studio to get my number or whatever. And they said, Ms. Hahn, I thought you would be in on Wednesday, but we're waiting for you. And so I jumped in my car in where? Oh, my God. This guy was William Morris. This guy really was on it. And he had Wednesday for me. I just put it all out of my head. It was like, put it in my breast bra, whatever, and it was 5, 6, 7, 8, boom. And just go right back to my dance. And I forgot. So I'm sitting there and he said, I just have a feeling about her. And I'm looking back at these agents, and I'm sort of looking back and forth left and right.

A (6:58)

So this is a big meeting of all the agents.

B (7:00)

This is a big meeting with agents and William Morris Agency, the biggest agency in the business. And I'm sitting there and he's, I just have a feeling about her. And then the other guy said, well, you know, she's too young for this. And da, da, da, da. And he said, well, if you believe in her, you know, he said, I just want people to meet her. I just have a feeling, okay? He was a junior agent, okay? So next thing I know, I go to an audition that I was too young for. And I did the audition with Persky and Denoff and all these people at Desilu Studios. And I go in there and I do this audition. I brought my props, which of course is so green. Nobody brings their props to an audition. I brought a teapot, Corningware teapot. I remember this day. Anyway, I Left. And I got a script as well, and. Cause they gave me sides. And the woman there had, you know, it was like Lily Tomlin and laughing hello. You know, right at a switchboard thing back in the day. And she said, oh, dear, you. You're the first one that's gotten a script all day. And I went, oh, thank you. You know, so I go back, next day, I get a call from my new agent who said, you got the job. I said, what job? No, you got the job. I said, you mean what I just auditioned for? I said, I'm too young for that part. And he said, well, no, they wrote in a part for you.

A (8:18)

They loved you. Well, wow.

B (8:21)

But here's the thing. It's a long story to get up to why I became depressed and anxious. And that's because I didn't want to do that. I was a dancer. I was just getting my feet wet. These dancers, the choreographers, I'm gonna use you for. I called home, I told mom and Dad, I said, listen, I got this job, but he's gonna use me for all these shows. And I'm so excited. And at that point, they said they wrote a pardon for me. And I called home and I said, mom, you're not gonna believe this. You know, they wrote a pardon for me. And then I became anxious and I had little panic attacks. And then I realized every time I'd go into, like, a restaurant or a place, I'd get dizzy and I would wanna go home. And I really. While I was. And it ended up was called Good Morning World. I had to go back to my dressing room to pull myself together because I didn't know when another panic attack was gonna happen. I didn't know whatever. But what I did was, is I went to a psychologist. I went directly because it wasn't me. I mean, I was a happy kid. I was just. Nothing bothered me. I was joyful. I didn't know what happened to my joy. I mean, I lost my. I tried to fake my smile. I'll never forget that. It's the scariest thing that has ever happened to.

A (9:40)

Like putting a circle in a square. Was it because you were where you didn't belong? Is that what sparked all of it, you think, or.

B (9:46)

No, I don't know. Except that it was not my plan. And, you know, I also. I was taken out of a world and put into another world. And I was supposed to really be happy. And mom was like, everybody's all excited and everything. Yeah. Everyone was tearing up, and I wasn't excited. But the question was, why? And I remember years ago, it's another story, but it's the Al Capp story, and people have heard it. But I remember this guy picking me up, and he was very nice. I believed him. I was only in New York for one month, and I was on my way to go to an audition, and I was dancing at the World's Fair at the same time. So I had a gig there, which was great. And he picked me up on the street and he said, look, I don't wanna. I'm not trying to put the make on you. I'm not trying to do any of that. I just wanna let you know that you look like a character that Al Capp created. You know, very cartoonist back then, very famous. And I knew Lil Abner. I did it in high school. But at the same time, he said, but he's doing a show for cbs, and you look just like a character that he created called Tenderleaf Erickson. And I said, oh, my God, that's amazing. He said, would you like to meet him? I'm sure he'd like to meet you. And I said, well, yeah, I mean, of course. That would be really great. And then I told Mommy, and she wrote me a letter about the casting couch. And she said, I want you to be aware of something. You have your meeting, but just remember that producers will never make you anything. You will only be able to make yourself. You will be successful. And if the audience doesn't like you, then you won't make it. No producer or anyone in the world will be able to do that. But you be prepared and remember the casting couch, because oftentimes that can happen.

A (11:40)

So what happened?

B (11:41)

She was 100% right. She was right. I went up there and, you know, we had tea. I had to wait for him because, you know, Eric, I remember everybody's name. I was so hyped up, you know, and he said, Mr. Cap really likes his women to pour his tea. Well, all of a sudden, I've been on the street long enough to know that didn't sound right.

A (12:03)

Yeah.

B (12:03)

And then he left and he got into some, like, you know, a dressing gown.

A (12:07)

Oh, geez.

B (12:08)

And then he put me through all the paces in the script and everything. I was reading, and he actually duped

A (12:13)

me a bit because, wait, he was in a. He was like, in a robe while you were reading?

B (12:16)

Yeah, yeah. So I was already uncomfortable, of course. And I remember saying to him, well, that's okay, Mr. Cap. You know, I don't know. I'm really a Dancer. And he said, well, we gotta work hard. I said, oh, dancers work really hard. I work really hard. But I didn't feel good. And I wanted to say to him. So I said. I said, well, you know, my mom and dad, you know, I came from, you know, a Jewish mother, and she was, you know, very strong. And I wanted him to know that I was a kind and young and sweet girl. That I wasn't like that, you know. So then he started doing things like, you know, pretend I'm the camera and look at me like, you know, you're an imbecile. And I tried to do that. And then I moved over to the other part of the room and he said, lift your skirt up. And I looked at that and I went, okay, this is not good. And I walked over to him, he said, now come on over here and give me a little kiss. And I looked at him and he'd taken out his whole situation. And I was staring, staring at it. And I said, you know what, Mr. Cap? I'll never get a job like this, you know. He said, well, you could have been a movie star. And I said to him, I never wanted to be a movie star. That was never what I wanted. And he said, well, you go back to your Jewish mother and I've had all of them, so you'll never make it anywhere in this business. So finally, when that show came on, I made sure I got him because I was on Laugh and. Cause that's how fast that happened. And I wrote him a note and I said, I thank you so much for not being on your show. And I was already somebody people knew, right. Cause I was on the show. I got my comeuppance. But you know what? My mom was proud of me. I mean, because I stood up, by

A (13:56)

the way, that moment right there. Cause in that split second, you made a whole decision about your life. I did right then. It was like a five second decision. You were gonna decide what road you were going down.

B (14:06)

Exactly.

A (14:07)

Wow.

B (14:08)

I mean, it was really something.

A (14:09)

And so many women chose the other because that was just as your mom knew it. Like it was second. That's what people did.

B (14:15)

That's what people did. Exactly. She knew you wouldn't know.

A (14:20)

Did he ever. Did you ever actually see him after that?

B (14:23)

No, but listen to this. So after that, it may have been, you know, timing is very hard to know. Let's call it six months later, I'm walking down 8th Avenue.

A (14:33)

Oh, geez.

B (14:34)

And this guy comes up to me and he stops me in the street. And he said, excuse me, I work on the Al Cap Show. He said, and you look just like a character that he created called Tenderleaf Erickson. I said, get away from me.

A (14:48)

Get away from me.

B (14:49)

You're a pimp for him. I know who you are. You're a pimp.

A (14:53)

And you heard the line already.

B (14:55)

Exactly. This was months and months later.

A (15:00)

That's disgusting.

B (15:01)

Exactly. So what do I do? I said, no, I'm not interested. I walked away. I said, if you've got a contract for me, I live right eight at 8th Avenue. Right. I was 19. And at that point, I went and auditioned for a Copa to be a Copa girl. And he was there. He was there. And I walked over to him and I said, I'm going to tell every girl here who you are and why you're here. And I did. And he left.

A (15:28)

Oh, my gosh. To have that kind of will that you had during that period of time. You describe yourself two ways. You sound strong as an oxygen. To be able to do that. And also riddled with anxiety and anxiousness. Both things can be true.

B (15:46)

Both things can be true. That's such a good point. I am strong, you know. And listen, I was dropped off on 10th Avenue in a car supposed to stay with somebody at 19, and they were out of town for the summer, and I had no place to live. So you figured stuff out. I'm going 10th Avenue with a little suitcase. And I was gonna dance at the World's Fair. So I went ahead to my dance teacher and the choreographer, and I. He said, could I stay at your place for a few days till I look for a place to live and, you know, maybe a roommate? And he said, you know, absolutely. And the next thing I know, you know, I'm sleeping and there's a vibrator going up my leg. And I went, you know what? I don't think this is a good idea. I think I have to look for an apartment right now. And I did, you know. And that's.

A (16:32)

But, you know, how did you not get hardened exactly. By all of them and all of it. Exactly. I could see where you would be like, you know what? But you still can this spirit. Right. Did you?

B (16:45)

Well, my spirit was my life force.

A (16:49)

Yeah.

B (16:50)

You know, that wasn't anything I was gonna give up. My happiness would be nothing that I would give up for no man, no thing, no nothing. And it was. If somebody stole that from me, they're out. Because that's a gift, and I tried to protect it. Have I been unhappy at times?

A (17:08)

Yes.

B (17:09)

And have I? Whatever. But I know I have the grit to get out of it. But truly, when realized that I was no longer be a dancer, I wasn't going to go and open a dancing school, get married, have children and be happy. That wasn't going to work. And when I was anxious and frightened and scared, I went to a doctor and I spent nine years with him. Why? Because I was learning about myself. I was learning about how to forgive. And I was learning, as I grew extremely successful, how to be able to manage other people's perception of me because they didn't know me. So when somebody says, I love you, you're great, that's wonderful. But they don't know me. And if people say ew, you know, or you get bad reviews and they're also mean and terrible, you go, well, that was their perception, right?

A (17:56)

You don't know me.

B (17:57)

It's not the truth.

A (17:58)

Wow. Wow. More ahead with Goldie Hawn. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom.

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B (19:51)

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for infections and tuberculosis. Tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu like symptoms or if you need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about tremphya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tremphyaradio.com. I feel like you have maintained like I was thinking about you during the mental health issues when you were younger. People weren't so schooled on it, they didn't really know how to treat it or what did they tell you? Did they think something was wrong with you? Like when you said, I feel anxious, this isn't right, something's not working for me. What did they tell you you should be doing then?

B (20:37)

No one told me anything. Cause I didn't tell them.

A (20:40)

Oh, you just told me.

B (20:41)

In other words, it wasn't. And I couldn't explain it myself. You know, it was confusing because I wasn't that person. And for me, all I could think of was how I could get out of it. For me it was solution oriented. And I really wanted more education to try to find what is going on with me and why. And I never quite learned why. I put that together over time because anyone who's been depressed or has these things happening, sometimes it's out of nowhere. And you know, the brain development is interesting. The fragility at 2019, 2021 is very fragile time. And so I succumbed to this part of my brain that was activated that I did not know how to handle. And this is one the things we're gonna get to, which is, well, if I had that, then children have that, then people have that and we have to talk about it. Very important. We can't live in the dark and wonder what's going on with me. We have to know that people do experience this and it's really important to acknowledge it because only until you acknowledge it can you fix it.

A (21:51)

That's beautiful. I keep thinking of this story and I don't know why. It's like popping up in my head. So I'm just gonna tell it because I can't, I can't let it go. So I actually heard someone tell this story. They said back in the 30s, there was a young girl who could not sit still. She was in class and she was always moving around and kind of agitated. And the teacher's like, sit down, sit down, sit down. And finally the teacher said to the mother, you've got to take this kid To a shrink, this child is disruptive and can't focus. And not that it was back in the 30s when nobody knew.

B (22:20)

Yeah.

A (22:21)

So she took her child to said, we're going to have to kick her out of school. She's disrupting our class. They took her to a psychiatrist or psychologist. And the kid's in the room and the doctor's talking to her, and the mother's there. And the doctor says to the mother, come outside for a second. I'm gonna talk to you. And he said, young lady, before I leave, I'm just gonna turn on some music. So he turns on some music, and he says to the mother, watch. And this kid got up and started spinning around the dance.

B (22:47)

Oh, my God.

A (22:48)

And he said, miss, your daughter's not sick. She's a dancer. And then he said, and this woman ended up being a choreographer for some of the top shows on Broadway. Her name's escaping me. That's what I was trying to think of it. But when you were talking about being a dancer, that's all I could think about. It was like you were born to dance. That's how you came into the world.

B (23:12)

It's true.

A (23:13)

That was your happiest. And that's when you were free.

B (23:16)

Exactly.

A (23:16)

And then all these other things pile onto you, and they're trying to make you. You turn you into something, but you're your freest when you're doing the thing you love the most.

B (23:27)

Oh, I know. I mean, I can't. Everything that I believe in, everything that I learned, all my work ethic, everything is wrapped up in my dance. But I have to tell you a story.

A (23:37)

Tell me.

B (23:38)

So I went in mindup class, and I was in Vancouver, which is where it started. I started it. I went to a classroom and I talked to the kids about mind up, and I talked to them about how they use it and all this stuff. Except there was one little boy there who was just moving around like he was hearing music. He wasn't paying attention. He was just jiving his body and whatever. And I said. I walked over to him and I said, you know what? I said, I bet you're a really good dancer. And he looked at me and his eyes lit up. I said, would you dance for us? Do you have any music here? And she turned on this music, and he got up and he danced for everybody. And then we all started dancing. All the kids got up and you know. You know how long this took? This took. Took five minutes. See, that's why in the classroom, we have to be Free. You know, we have to be able to have joy for these children. They have to be able to recognize something in a child that says, you're not here right now. Okay, let's.

A (24:35)

Let's.

B (24:36)

Let's watch you dance. And I'll tell you, it was one of the most important things that reminded me of what the doctor said. You know, I mean, it's just so important. Important. And. And you're right. Dance was my teacher. And when I met George Slaughter from Laugh In, I remember when I met him, because I had an interview there. He said, and I just done this other show. I was out of my depression and all that stuff. And. And he said, well, what do you do? He said, what? I said, what are you? I said, I'm a dancer.

A (25:06)

Yeah.

B (25:07)

He said, no, I mean, what. What show? You just came from a show, right? I said, I know, but actually, I'm a dancer.

A (25:13)

I'm a dancer. I'm a dancer. Oh, my God. Exactly.

B (25:16)

Anyways, I'm still dancing through life.

A (25:18)

I don't know. By the way, it's like you found your true love. And I think so many people go through life putting a circle in a square or swimming upstream or trying to figure out, like, maybe if I work harder, this will feel easier. And they realize, like, then when you ride a wave, you're like, oh, no, no. This is what it's supposed to feel like. Supposed to feel freeing. Let's talk about mind up for a second. Because in schools, kids are taught to learn, sit in their desks, follow rules, you know all the things and look for, truth be told, they have to know how to navigate life. When you get in life, there are rules. I have to come to work at this time. I can't do this. I want to be crazy. I can't. So there are some things that kids need to learn, but mindup is a way to train a part of them that doesn't get any attention in schools. Will you explain what it is?

B (26:08)

Well, you know, I can only know that, you know, my program, which I created and brought in neuroscientists and Dr. I mean, I did a whole thing, but I realized that our children weren't having fun. And at that time, I was doing a documentary on joy. And that documentary was because I went to third world countries as a big traveler, and I realized that Africa, India, all these places, people were experiencing joy. They were celebrating. There was ritual. There was all this. And then I'd go to the or I get in the car and I'm home. And I walk somewhere and there was all gates are closed and things, right. You don't see kids running around, you don't see anything and have the looks on people's faces. I thought, wait a minute. We have to remember that we have this incredible innate ability to experience happiness, joy, moments of happiness and inner joy. I said, and it has to be cultivated. But I felt that our culture here in America was losing that. And it ended being up being. I think we were underneath even England being the least happiest country in the world. And I'm going, okay, that's going to stop. I'm going to create this documentary. I'm going to travel the world, talk about joy.

A (27:17)

What did it teach you that, Doc? I want to see it, by the way. But what did it teach you?

B (27:20)

I have yet to make it.

A (27:21)

Okay, but.

B (27:22)

But I mean, I'll tell you what happened. Nine, 11 happened. And that's when I looked at this and I went, well, yeah, I'm not going to talk about joy now.

A (27:30)

You're right.

B (27:30)

Some serious problems.

A (27:31)

Did you travel, though? Did you get to see some of the places overseas and how they dealt with Joy? Like how.

B (27:37)

God, yes.

A (27:38)

What did you notice? Just forget about the dog.

B (27:40)

First of all, they're very family oriented.

A (27:41)

Yeah.

B (27:42)

They're tribal. Right. And like, I consider my family a tribe.

A (27:45)

Yeah.

B (27:46)

You know, we. They're tribal. That means they depend on each other. They're. That they don't ask for a lot. They don't have a lot. I mean, boy, when I was in Africa and all of that, they were. I've never seen smiles like that in my life.

A (27:58)

Oh, wow.

B (27:58)

And they were so helpful. And they took things off their body and gave them to me and necklaces they made. And there was just generosity. There wasn't, there wasn't separation of anything. Except maybe I had crazy jeans on. And they looked at him and went, wow, those are great. I remember, oh, God. One time at this time in Africa, we ended up flying privately all over a small plane and we went to Turkana. So the Turkana region is where they found the earliest man. Okay. They found 3 million years. It was the highest density of crocodiles in the world. And it was escarpment and it was high desert, no animals. It was all people. So we were driving, you know, to look around all in this high desert. And it was in a jeep and we looked further and I saw this amazing color and it was orange red. And it just stood out like. It was like a mirage. Right. And we're driving. I said, can we drive toward that color. And with that color, more and more came into view that it was four, four, six Rendilli tribesmen.

A (29:11)

Oh, my God.

B (29:11)

Young boys, probably around. They could have been six, five, very tall, dressed only in this wrap, which was beautiful orange, amazing color. And they were decked out in their jewelry, with all the jewelry they made. And they ended up giving me one of their necklaces. They wanted to ride in our Jeep. They piled in little heads dunked down because they were so tall. The minute we took off, they started to sing, Tears coming down, my eyes, going. It was so joyful. It was so beautiful. Their intonations were quite different than ours in our culture, but they were in harmony like I've never. And I started singing with him, and it was one of the great memories of my life. And then they were ready to get out. It was just a rock. It wasn't 7 11. I mean. And they just were so happy that they could do that.

A (30:16)

That is so, like, the simplest, most beautiful moment that you'll never forget. Think of all the people you've met, all the places you've been, all the moments. That one. I know that one. Wow.

B (30:29)

I know.

A (30:30)

So joy in classrooms and joy among people, because I think a lot of people think the usual, When I get X, I'll be happy, I'll be joyful when my kid is here, when I get the thing, when I get the promotion, when I get the house, you know, all the things. And then they get there, and then they feel worse because they acquired what they had hoped for, and yet it wasn't there. So they find that they're always missing it. So it's grownups and kids, but how do you teach?

B (30:59)

They call that the hedonistic treadmill. And with that is you realize that things don't make you happy, no matter what you want. And the truth of the matter is that the reality and lasting things are precious experiences. And when you start looking beyond the it and the thing, then you start basically transforming into the moment. And that, for me, is a lesson because we can ruminate on all the negative stuff. We can get new cars and get excited because it smells so good, but eventually doesn't smell that good. So, you know, these are the areas I think of misconception. And happiness and joy, I think, are different because happiness are moments of happiness. They come and they go, right? But there is this incredible part of your heart and soul that actually knows joy. It knows joy because we were laughing before we could talk. We were literally enjoying life. I have pictures of my grandson right now that will open your eyes to what true joy is. That's deep. That's what you feel when you're in church. It's when you feel when you're singing. It's when you feel when you're in flow. And that belongs to you. And one of the things that I do talk to my parents and to people about, to other parents is that if you're feeling sad, make sure that you keep a picture of yourself when you were little and you were smiling and laughing because that's who you are. But we lose it. It gets, you know, basically, it's like an avalanche of life. And it can really put you in a place of sadness. But underneath that sadness is your joy. You were born with it.

A (32:43)

How do you. When you have the days, like a lot of people listening, myself included, that are not great days, and you, how do you find it again? Like, what's your way in?

B (32:53)

Well, first of all, you have to feel sad. Yeah, it's important. And it's important to feel the pain and it's important to feel all those things. The problem with that, which is knowledge, okay, is that your brain gets connected and habituates that the brain is negative, biased, so it responds very much to negative thought. That's why, you know, CNN does what it does. It's like what Fox does it, what it does. It's not just reporting, right? So everything is contagious. I mean, thought is contagious, attitudes are contagious, you name it. But we have to realize that when we're in this state of mind, you have every right to feel sad.

A (33:35)

So you should feel that first.

B (33:36)

What happens is that if you feel sad for periods of time and long periods of time, it turns into depression. Knowing just that will actually be able to. Because of your higher self, we have metacognition, which means we can watch ourselves, right?

A (33:52)

We can.

B (33:52)

Can. And then you say, I don't want to be like this. I mean, when my mom died, I was sad for a year,

A (34:03)

but I

B (34:04)

pulled myself out of it for times to be the mother for my children I wanted to be. But I would go upstairs and read my books, all kinds of books that would help me return into my more spiritual life. It's all I could do to find solace. But I could reach out, dig it out of me so my kids actually could have a look happier mother. So, you know, sadness is what we have. That and things that we can't control, we have to look at and say, I'm going to feel Bad about this. Listen, I do that every day. I look at the news and I cry. I let myself cry because it hurts. What we're hearing, what we're seeing, what we're feeling. The lack there of brotherhood, the sense of just Koyaanisqatsi people dying in the wars, the anger that people have toward each other. I cry. But I refuse to let that ruin my day. I pull myself out of it and I get back in my body. Because you're no good for anybody when you do. We can't solve it. So the things that you know you can't solve that are. Then we ride over it in your mind.

A (35:18)

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.

B (35:20)

You know, we're strong and we make an intention to do it, then we'll do it.

A (35:27)

I like that. I had Young Pueblo on who's written a couple of these books. He said, he goes, whenever I feel something, I sit on the edge of my bed and I wait for it, and I let it seep right into me. And I know for a fact that it's gonna go into and through me. And I wait. He goes, and I'll sit there until it goes all the way through.

B (35:49)

I love that.

A (35:50)

He says, here it comes. This is it. Here's that thing. Ah, that. There it is. Now it's in my throat. I feel it now. It's going through me.

B (35:56)

It's beautiful.

A (35:57)

And the other person, I'm just thinking about her, too. Martha Beck. I don't know if you do. You know Martha Beck, she's written books that you would love. Maria Shriver told me when she gets in a funk, the one person she calls is Martha. And I call Maria. So I was. So I wondered who her person. And Martha was saying that in the morning, she talks to herself. She was like, I'm my best friend. Hey, girl. She goes, you know what you could use this morning, sweetie? And then she goes, you know what you could use? You could use a real hot cup of tea when we wake up. So I'm gonna do that for you. Okay, I got you. And then as you're drinking the tea, sweetie, you know what else you need today? Cause I know that you've been feeling that ache in your back. You were talking about it. You know, I'm gonna do. I'm calling that guy who does 10 minutes for $10 on the corner. I know you think it's a pain, but it's worth it. So I'm gonna set it up. You just show up. And she goes through this dialogue and realizes that she can kind of boost herself out. Cause you gotta find your method, your way.

B (36:58)

Absolutely.

A (36:58)

When you think about kids and all of us, do you have. Are you in a hopeful place right now? Do you feel hopeful for all of us?

B (37:09)

You know, here's what it is. If I wish, if I could change the world, I would. I can't. Okay? But what I'm doing that makes me feel hopeful is that I've seen children change from mind up. I have seen them shift a way that they have more agency over themselves and over their sadness, over their anxiety, over their uncertainty. Okay? This is what we're doing. So when you have anything that you've made happen, okay, There is joy in that. Is it hard work? Yes. Is it difficult running an organization? Yes. It's no different than a business. Okay. So foundations are no different. The truth is there's a lot of work to be done, but there's also this intention. I remember when I created this, I said, if it helps 10 children, I'm doing this for a reason.

A (37:57)

How do you know it works?

B (37:59)

We had research. I wouldn't go out until it was researched. That's the other thing, is that at that time, you know, it was Goldie Hawn. What does she know about education? What does she know about this stuff? And of course, people are always ready to criticize. So I didn't want that, you know, I wanted mined up to be the star. So that was research. Early, early days. And it was research. And what came out was so positive that the researcher said, I have been researching these kind of programs for 20 years. Now it's 40. She said, I've never seen results like this in 12 to 15 weeks. Never. Our children. The research was extraordinary. So she decided, let's do a bigger, bigger set. So we did, you know, with a control group, and we did this with a control group. Well, our mindup children came back much more resilient, much happier, much. You name it worked better in the classroom. Together, they all said they would make. They could make themselves happier now. And, you know, bas scores went up. I mean, it was crazy. But the control group, which was much more interesting, got nothing. They got no intervention. They didn't get any. Anything went below baseline. They got worse.

A (39:06)

Oh, wow.

B (39:07)

It was. That is the most interesting part.

A (39:09)

That's telling.

B (39:10)

Yeah, it's very telling.

A (39:11)

So what do. In a nutshell, what do the kids get? Like, what are you doing for a third grader or a sixth grader? What do they do when they're in the program?

B (39:20)

Yeah, that's A good question. What they do is basically they're not dissimilar things. You change the verbiage, you change some of the exercises, you change that for the age, age group. I'll give you an example. Well, first of all, let me just go through it. The first thing we learn is about our brain. And it's the first thing we teach them and our educators, which, by the way, are benefiting greatly from this program. We have 143 schools here, just in New York City alone.

A (39:45)

Wow.

B (39:46)

Yeah. And we've got the UFT and the DOE has been amazing. So forgetting all that and knowing that. So they get first brain lessons. They have to know the amygdala, prefrontal cortex, hippocampus. They have to know exactly what's reacting when we feel a certain way and really turn that into an experience. Right. Then we teach them a brain break. A brain break is breathing, focusing. There's one bell. The reason we have a bell, a chime, something that lasts a long time because they listen to the sound as long as they can. And that connects the brain to focused attention. So it starts the brain listening and listening and listening and listening and listening and listening, listening. And then they turn their little hands over, whether they're sitting in a circle or at their desk. And that means now we start our breathing. And the breath goes in very slowly through the nose and very slowly out the nose. And the idea is that, remember, the brain thinks, it does that all the time. You will have thoughts that'll come into your head, which is fine, but just let them go like clouds. Don't get. Don't attach them and come back to your breath. So learn how to focus on your breath and not on the things that are actually taking away.

A (41:00)

Got it?

B (41:00)

Yeah, that's it. So we explained to them that it's a muscle. And we're building our muscle just like we build our bicep and things like that. And the languaging gets more adult as time goes on. But as an example we created, it's on our website, mindop.org if you go on it, you'll see a film that Tiffany Schlane did. She's quite brilliant.

A (41:24)

And.

B (41:24)

And it is all about the adolescent brain. So when they're anywhere from 11, 12, 13, 14, and on up, they now see what's happening to their brain. When they become this age, they start learning more about. Well, that's why I do that. Now I see why I'm feeling that. I know I'm over emotional. I know that's where I am right now. And I'm not thinking very well because my prefrontal cortex is a little bit offline. I'm not knowing how to basically do a lot of things like think, remember things because it's emotion. And the emotion hijacks everything that goes on in the executive function. Decision making. It's why we're always afraid, because our decision making is often off. You know, you don't want them to get in a car with a person who's been drinking.

A (42:11)

Right.

B (42:12)

You know, these kind of things, right. You want to be, you know, cognizant, but it gives them an understanding and the parents and the teachers, what's going on. And it's fabulous, right?

A (42:23)

Wow.

B (42:23)

The other thing I created was a cartoon, a digital cartoon for the younger children. So they will be able to understand what their brain buddies, it's called. And the brain buddies are all the characters of the brain. And now Millie, who's the lead character, can't remember because she's so upset, cannot remember what she learned last night for her test. So the brain buddies come in, they go into her brain and they go, I'm the amygdala, I'm the thing, whatever. And I know I'm getting upset and I'm feeling her emotions, I know, and whatever. And it says, and that's the amygdala who's a barking dog. And then we have the wise owl who's the, you know, the prefrontal cortex. And then we have the hippocampus who's the memory. And he remembers everything. So we teach them through the cartoon.

A (43:08)

That's really great. More with Goldie Hawn when we come back foreign. This is the exclusive table with the view. This is your name on the list. This is three times points on dining with Chase Sapphire Reserve and a 300 dining credit Chase Sapphire Reserve. Now even more rewarding. Learn more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval. Oh joy. Another day, another buzz delayed. Look on the bright side, you can

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power 2025 U.S. vehicle Dependability Study Awards based on 2022 models. Newer models may be shown. Visit J.D. power.com awards for more details. Chevrolet, together. Let's drive. You have so many great joys in your life. Your children, obviously, who are lovely, your grand. I mean, how have you changed since a grandchild popped into your life?

B (44:54)

Oh, I don't think I've changed at all.

A (44:57)

That's cool. Yeah.

B (44:58)

I will say that when Ryder was born, Kate's first, I still had a kid at home because she gave me early. I love her for that. And my kids range from 20 to. To seven months.

A (45:12)

Wow.

B (45:13)

So I have a big, wide range of that.

A (45:15)

Yes.

B (45:16)

I will say, this being a go go grandmother, I love it. It's an unbelievable weave that starts to happen when your children start to have children. But they're the parents. And what one has to be careful is that we don't want to be a horn. That's always saying, why'd you do that? They should do this? And whatever. So curtains. And I give them full autonomy.

A (45:42)

Okay.

B (45:43)

And with that, I will say, I miss being a mother, really. Of children. Yeah. I loved being a mother. I loved it. It's the greatest one. When a child looks up to you and say, my wife used to say, mother, may I kiss your royal ring? You know, because I always like these big rings. I mean, they love you so much. And that's the one thing we talk about, parenting. Remember that no one will love you like your children do. And that's the most important part of your life. And remember that because one day they won't be sitting on your lap. One day they'll be living their life. One day you're going to wonder why they didn't call you. But at one point in time, you were the queen. You were the girl. And that really is important to cherish, right? It's really important to cherish. So I love being a mother and I do love being a grandmother, but I'm not the boss. I'm just the one that can deliver happiness to them. And also an ear if they need it.

A (46:54)

I think you should do that Joy documentary now. I think it's time. Yeah, I think it's time for it. I think it's the perfect time for it. I think it's time. I think it's the perfect time for it.

B (47:03)

I know.

A (47:04)

Perfect time. If you had a day that was all for you, which means you could wake up when you wanted, you have not one obligation or anything, and you could fill it with anything that you wanted for a day that feels to you like a day that you made space for yourself, how would you spend, spend that day? Who would be in it? Would there be anyone in it?

B (47:31)

Probably not be anyone in it. I think quieting yourself down, doing the things you want to do, I've been there. I know what that feels like. And there's never a day that goes by that I don't have something to do. I mean, I'm not looking to retire at all because I've got too many ideas and too much life in me. But on the other side of it, when I realize that I don't have anything to do, do, I will then go see the kids in the morning. And then I would go to get a facial and I would read and I would do whatever I want to do. I'd clean out my closet, I mean, throw out stuff and give it to people that need it. I mean, I would go for a hike and I would call a friend and say, let's have lunch. You mean I actually have a free lunch to be with somebody? No, I mean, I know it's crazy, you know, but it's important. Yeah, but it's important, you know, that you do that. I'd call my hundred year old aunt and I would talk to her because I don't have anything that's stopping a longer phone call. Do you know what I mean? Because now we can't. Those long phone calls that you have, I mean, you have to manage them. I mean, there are friends we have, right? And we don't have to call them because we see them. But then there are other friends that haven't been in your life for a while that really want to know what's going on and you know that you don't have an hour, you don't have a half an hour, right?

A (48:56)

But this would be that day.

B (48:57)

It's so amazing. So that's what I do. Oh gosh, there's so many things I would do. I Mean, there's so many books to read. And do you have, like, a little

A (49:09)

morning routine or an evening routine that you do habitually? Is there something that. Is there a way you start your day or frame it or end it?

B (49:18)

Yeah. I mean, first of all, I wake up, thank God, the day's looking great right now. Now and then I stretch in my bed and I breathe. And the reason why I breathe is because when we're sleeping, we breathe very shallow. And you're not opening up your lungs, you're not opening up your oxygen intake. So I breathe through my nose probably 10 times. I hold it. So when I breathe, you breathe. Say, just take, you know, breathe up to 10 or whatever for however long you can fill your lung and then. And then hold it for 5 seconds, 6 seconds, and then exhale and I do it again. Within three of those deep, slow breaths, my eyes pop open. So that's one thing, right? Then I drink lemon water, which, when Kurt's home, he always brings me my lemon water.

A (50:12)

How sweet is he, by the way?

B (50:14)

He still preaches a lemon water. He's a deer. I mean, really, he's. And you know, he's amazing. And so he brings the lemon water. He said, you want your lemon water before your coffee? And I said, yes. But when he's gone, right? Because he's went off to a movie in Australia. And I went, what am I going to do? I give that to myself. I go up and I get up and I tell the dogs, you're not eating yet. Because I'm having my lemon water and my coffee. Yes. And I'm happy. I like my alone time. And I get the. I like my time with myself. And the dogs are there, and I do that. And then around 7:30, I feed the dogs. And then I get ready for a zoom. I get ready for whatever the day's got for you. It starts early and I try not to look too much at my phone because that's when already the simmer starts, right? You look at 8 o', clock, you're going, well, what was that about? Next thing you know, you're. You're in the abyss of your work.

A (51:18)

One thing, because your son went to the same place that I went to. This institute has a little morning drill they ask you to do. They say in the beginning you should write down these things. They say you should check in body, intellect, emotional self and spirit. So you write down. So I'll describe how my spirit feels that morning. It feels eternal and present. It feels loving or it feels distant or it feels, you know, however you're identifying, where is that part of you? It's like, what is. Then what does my body need today? And I was like, you know, my body. Body needs like a long walk and I want a long shower, so I'll write it. What does my intellect need? I've been listening to this Martha Beck podcast, so I'm like, my brain needs that, so I. So I would write it down. And what does my emotional self need? Like, what does that part of me need? Okay, I need a long. Maybe a phone call with my mom, or maybe I need to make sure I tuck my kids in tonight, even though. And then it's like a mini. Almost like a mini roadmap, but it's reminding me of those parts and what's missing.

B (52:17)

Exactly.

A (52:17)

Yeah. And it's like they call it like a quad check. It's like you check in with all four parts. Cause that makes you who you are.

B (52:24)

I love it.

A (52:25)

And then once you venture out, you go, okay, now I got my day. And then you get your wall because you've written it, you almost get it in. I'm like, ah, that podcast, I'm gonna listen to it on the ride home today. Instead of how you know, you could death scroll or do whatever and think you're reading something and then you're down some crazy, crazy rabbit hole.

B (52:42)

Yeah.

A (52:43)

First of all, I just wanna say I love you and I wanna say thank you. You are a remarkable human being. And please, when you do the documentary, come back and talk about it. Because when you said it, I was like, all I want to do is see it. So now all you have to do

B (52:58)

is make it well, spring the kids and you can come along.

A (53:01)

Okay, we'll come for the ride. Thank you, Goldie.

B (53:04)

Thank you.

A (53:08)

Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger and Alexa Casavecchia along with Kate Saunders, our associate. Our audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineer is Katie Lau. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Leist is the executive vice president of today and Lifestyle. Oh, joy. Another day, another buzz delayed. Look on the bright side, you can

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You don't mind running late. What's your deal?

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What's my deal?

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Kept the phone I love and a

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