← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Jay Leno on Redefined Purpose and the Power of Quiet Devotion
00:38:22
Jay Leno is one of the most recognizable figures in comedy and late night, hosting "The Tonight Show" for a combined two decades. But in recent years, his life has shifted into a quieter, more intimate chapter as he cares for his wife Mavis, who was diagnosed with dementia in 2024. Jay opens up to Hoda about what it means to support the woman who stood beside him throughout his career and her small glimmers of memory and recognition that mean everything. He reflects on their love story, the humor they still find in simple moments and how this chapter has revealed a deeper purpose built on patience, tenderness, and grace.
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- [00:00]
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- [01:04]
Podcast Host (Hoda Kotb)
Sometimes life changes in a way that quietly reshapes us, shifting what we hold close, how we move through our days, and how we understand love. Jay Leno has been living through that kind of transformation for years. Jay stood at the center of American late night, hosting the Tonight show for more than two decades and becoming one of the most recognized comics in the world. And through it all, his wife, Mavis, stood steady beside him, supporting his rise while championing women and lifting up communities across the globe. In 2024, Mavis was diagnosed with dementia, and ever since, Jay has embraced a different kind of purpose, caring for her with unmatched devotion. In their moments together, he has discovered something profound, a love held together by patience, by humor, and by a vow he continues to fulfill every single day. In our conversation, Jay opens up about caring for the woman who spent a lifetime caring for others, the small glimmers that still break through, and the joy he still finds in making Mavis laugh. Plus, he shares why this part of their story is just as beautiful as any other Jay and Mavis story reminds us of the value of devotion, of courage, and of love that endures even as life changes around it. I'm Hoda Kotb, and this is my podcast, Making Space.
- [02:44]
Hoda Kotb
Jay, first of all, just how are we doing? It's.
- [02:46]
Jay Leno
I'm doing good, actually. Yeah, everything's good. I can't complain.
- [02:51]
Hoda Kotb
Comedy has been obviously the through line throughout your life. What does comedy look like these days? Where are you? Where are you doing Shows.
- [02:57]
Jay Leno
What are you doing? I'm on the road a lot. You know, I just took politics out of it completely. I know ticket sales are up 20, 30% just because nobody wants to be lectured. Nobody. People just want to get away. At least that's my thing. You know, when you're on TV and you can play directly to your audience and there's a laugh track. When you go to Indiana or Kentucky or any other place in the country, New York, Louisiana, you're always gonna have a third of the people who don't agree with you politically. So why even go there? And that's just my attitude.
- [03:30]
Hoda Kotb
So what's the difference for you in terms of a feeling playing like a sold out Carnegie hall versus playing a fun crowd in Indiana? What's the difference for you?
- [03:40]
Jay Leno
It's the same thing. It's fine as long as you get in. Laughs. I mean, that's the whole thing, you know, Write joke, tell joke, get check. It's very simple.
- [03:48]
Hoda Kotb
Write joke, tell joke.
- [03:50]
Jay Leno
But most people can't follow that form because, you know, I want people to know. Oh, no, no, no, no. Go back to the write joke, tell joke part.
- [03:59]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah, it's tricky to be a comedian these days. I feel like we've.
- [04:03]
Jay Leno
I don't think it's any trickier than me. No. You know, we've always had tough times. You know, people forget. In the 60s, New York used to issue a cabaret card. If you were a comedian or a singer, you'd work a nightclub and you'd have essentially a license, a cabaret card. And if you used an obscenity or said something, now you can't work. So I mean, I mean, things are actually, it's not that it's better now, but the thing I find fast, stuff that used to be the law is now against the law. And that's great because the L day would just be boom. You just. That's it, that's it. You can't do that. I mean, I remember when I was a kid in Boston, cops would break up interracial couples. Wow. I remember being on Charles street and the intervention called holding a cop goes, hey, you go that way, you go that way. I see you together again, you're getting run in, mister. And you. And it's like it used to be that way. And look, I'm not pie in the sky. I'm just saying we've been through this before. You know, whenever I talk to young people, I tell them in 1939 there were 20,000American Nazis in Madison Square Garden for a Rally and it was sold out. And they go, that's not true. I go, it is true.
- [05:14]
Hoda Kotb
Right. Look it up.
- [05:15]
Jay Leno
So there's always been, you know, read history.
- [05:17]
Hoda Kotb
It's.
- [05:18]
Jay Leno
It just comes around and goes around.
- [05:20]
Hoda Kotb
So do you feel hopeful about where.
- [05:22]
Jay Leno
Yes, I'm very hopeful. I am optimistic because ultimately it's a bit like a donkey. Sometimes you gotta hit it in the head with a two by four to get its attention, but eventually it'll listen. I mean, it's probably now when DAM is still on the head of Peter. We don't hit donkeys. I'm just the expression that you kind of have to push down. Oh, and then it goes that way.
- [05:43]
Hoda Kotb
Sure.
- [05:44]
Jay Leno
You know, I'm encouraged by the number of people that voted in the last election because it's not that long ago, like 28%. Only 28% of the country voted and thought, are elections even viable anymore? Does anybody care? Well, apparently they do.
- [05:58]
Hoda Kotb
They do now.
- [05:58]
Jay Leno
You know, and the fact you've got a country divided, that's all. But more and more people are voting and they're in the process.
- [06:05]
Hoda Kotb
Got it.
- [06:05]
Jay Leno
I always find it fascinating. More Americans have no idea what their rights are, but they have rights. And that's always my favorite.
- [06:13]
Hoda Kotb
Let's talk about, you know, you don't have a big comedy tour coming up. We're sitting here today.
- [06:18]
Jay Leno
Well, I've been on tour for 50 years.
- [06:19]
Hoda Kotb
You're constantly on tour. But today, one of the subjects I'm really excited to talk to you about, or I really want to talk to you about and learn more about, is Mavis, you're the Love of youf Life.
- [06:30]
Jay Leno
Right, Right.
- [06:31]
Hoda Kotb
First of all, how is she doing today?
- [06:34]
Jay Leno
Good. Real good. You know, this dementia, Alzheimer's or what you call it, it's. It's not cancer. She's not in any pain, you know, and we have fun. I mean, it's, it's. You have to sort of deal with. You try to do the same thing kind of every day. So there's the sameness to it. But, you know, you have to sort of find the humor in it. She's not walking much anymore. I kind of carry her everywhere. But I remember I took her to Nordstrom, so she's kind of down there. Come on, let's get some clothes. I don't want any clothes. Come on, come on. So he goes, and we go in the shoe department and she sees these shoes, you know, oh, these sneakers, bright blue. And she likes them. She goes, yeah, I like. Can I. Yeah, honey, get a pair of the. Oh, she puts on and she goes, and big smile. Oh, that's great. You want another brand? Yeah, honey, get one. She goes, on the table. She's on the table. The same shoe, kind of white and gold with some sparkly stuff. And I tried something. He put something on. I said, why don't you wear those home? Put yours in the box. So I got to. I go up to the salesman, how much is 24.95?
- [07:42]
Hoda Kotb
Fine.
- [07:42]
Jay Leno
I give him my card. He goes, okay, that is $847. I went, no, no, no, $24. He goes, these are $24. These ones were modified by Fa. Some designer because he hit it with a bedazzler. And they were like $800. There you go. And I look at my wife and she's got this big smile.
- [08:03]
Hoda Kotb
She's like, yeah.
- [08:04]
Jay Leno
And I go, you know, I'm just glad I can afford it, you know?
- [08:08]
Hoda Kotb
She was diagnosed with advanced dementia in 2024. But how long did you know that she had.
- [08:15]
Jay Leno
Probably last six years or so.
- [08:18]
Hoda Kotb
Was there something that happened first that you.
- [08:21]
Jay Leno
Well, it's just little things. You go, what? Yeah, honey, what are you talking about? You know, I mean, probably the toughest part was every day she'd wake up and realize someone had called today to tell her her mother had passed away. And her mother died every day for like three years. And it was just. And just not just crying. I mean, you're learning for the first time. Luchtzeim was. And that was really tricky. Yeah, that makes it hard.
- [08:54]
Hoda Kotb
What did you say to her? What did you do?
- [08:57]
Jay Leno
Well, you just listen, you go. You know, it's a matter of. You can't say. What are you gonna say? It's. You just.
- [09:05]
Hoda Kotb
Okay.
- [09:06]
Jay Leno
You know, you just try to. Yeah, but like I say, you're trying to find, you know. You know, she was always involved with women's rights issues, my wife. So whenever we watch tv, we try to watch TV that's episodic as opposed to, you know, a five part series over. Cause she's not gonna remember the day before. So we watched Law and order perfect 47 minutes ago. So we're watching Hawaii Five Zero from the city.
- [09:31]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, wow.
- [09:31]
Jay Leno
Throwback and McGarrett, Jack Lord, I mean, every woman. Honey, honey, come here, Sweetheart. Sweetheart. What'd the portrait look like? Like, sweetheart, he's in here. So watching this episode, and Stanley Holloway, the old actor, he plays a genetic scientist who is captured by the Red Chinese. So Jack Lloyd goes to see his daughter who's like 40 I'm sitting there with my wife, and Jack Lloyd says to her, what kind of genetic engineering did your dad do? And she says, well, I'm just a woman. I don't understand such things. And I hear you. My boy's screaming. She's screaming at the tv, and I'm just dying. Just yell at the tv. And I thought, okay, well, the fire's still there, you know? And, you know, you try to find those moments, you know, it was just so funny. And at the end, the daughter's baking muffins. I mean, it is so. It is so sick. I mean, you go, really?
- [10:29]
Walmart Advertiser
This.
- [10:30]
Jay Leno
It looks so crazy, but that was the norm then. I'm just a woman.
- [10:34]
Hoda Kotb
I'm just a woman. Oh, I've got the fire in her belly.
- [10:37]
Jay Leno
Understands everything, you know? So, I mean, so that's kind of how you have fun, you know.
- [10:41]
Hoda Kotb
When you guys first met, I was just reading some stuff about you.
- [10:45]
Podcast Host (Hoda Kotb)
She.
- [10:46]
Hoda Kotb
I mean, she was crazy about you. She talked about how gorgeous you were. But she also said she never wanted to get married. She was a big feminist. It wasn't going to be something that she was even interested in. But somehow being with you felt like home.
- [10:58]
Jay Leno
My mother always thought this was the funniest thing, because when you're in showbiz, you have this great union with all these benefits, but they don't apply to your girlfriend. They apply to your wife or a family member, you know. So I just said, you know, honey, something happens to either of us, we got this, but I can't use it. Yeah. All right. So we get.
- [11:21]
Hoda Kotb
So let's get married.
- [11:22]
Jay Leno
So let's get married.
- [11:23]
Podcast Host (Hoda Kotb)
Yeah.
- [11:24]
Jay Leno
Yeah. Wait, there was no.
- [11:25]
Hoda Kotb
You weren't on. Down on one knee. No ring?
- [11:27]
Jay Leno
No, I'm not really a down on one knee guy, you know, but that's okay, you know, it's fine. Lead by example, you know, My dad was the same way. You know, I found things out about my dad years later that he never spoke about. My dad was a prize fighter. He was a tough guy. But he told me he quit fighting because we realized even on his best day at work, he got punched in the face. And he realized, you know, you can't really make a living every day. You just get punched every day in the face.
- [12:00]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [12:00]
Jay Leno
You know, so my dad took a job selling insurance.
- [12:04]
Commercial Break Announcer
Okay?
- [12:05]
Jay Leno
So he goes to work for a potential insurance company in New York, and he says to them, okay, what's your hardest area to sell? Harlem black people who want insurance. And my dad didn't believe my dad Was not a really educated guy, but he had common sense. He said, well, that's ridiculous. Why would black people not want insurance? So my dad sold nickel policies in Harlem. He collected. He called door to door, collect 5 cents. And if the person died, they got $2,500. That's how it paid off. I never knew any of this. And then when my dad died, I talked about it on the Tonight show. And I got a letter from an African American lady who I assume now at the time, my dad's, 30 years ago, was in her 80s. And she said when she's a little girl, there was a man named Mr. Angelo who would come to collect the money from the insurance. And he'd always bring her a Tootsie Roll or a lollipop. And she said that he was the first white person ever to have dinner in their apartment. It always makes me cry. She said, when I grew up, I always hoped I'd meet Italian people. Cause they're nice to black folks. And I never knew any of that, you know. And it was just. Yeah, it was just very touching. I always go to that when I'm. You know, because that's what my dad did. My dad was not a civil rights in March. It was one person at a time, one family at a time. You know, just kind of way. When I was a kid, I was what they call a Shabbos goi. We had the Henrys, they were Jewish. They lived next door. And one day the kid. You know, you're not supposed to touch light switches and everything. So he put a towel over the lamp in his bedroom to shield the light. And it caught fire. And of course, nobody's killed or anything, but it's just a fire. So I got the job of. On the holidays, I would go on Jewish holiday and turn on. Off the stove or turn off the rice. That was my job. You know, I thought, oh, this is kind of fun, you know, and you learn about a different religion and different food. And of course, the Italian food is always much better. But. Yeah, yeah, but the food thing, not so much, but the people, great. Yeah. So, I mean, it was just that kind of. I mean, you know, to me, I love the whole immigrant thing. I love the. The different types of people, just different points of view, you know. To me, the best comedy is Stranger in a Strange Land. And when I talk to immigrants and they tell me in America, why it's so odd? Why are the drinks so big? I do not understand. Like, when I meet people from Nigeria, I like people from Nigeria because They're like old school. They want their kids to be doctors. All very, you know. Why do the Americans hug? Why do you hug? I do not know these people. They come up and they hug me.
- [14:46]
Hoda Kotb
They want to wrap their arms around you. Yeah.
- [14:47]
Jay Leno
Yeah. I mean, so to me, it's always fun.
- [14:50]
Hoda Kotb
So I think walking the walk, like you were describing, like, for Mavis, too, you didn't need to get on an A. You didn't need to have the. You just walked the walk. What was it about her? She described what it was about you, that you captivated her and you felt.
- [15:04]
Jay Leno
Like, well, you know something, it's somebody you're comfortable with. I enjoy her company. Yeah. I mean, it was just a matter. I could sit in the room. She always had a book.
- [15:16]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [15:16]
Jay Leno
You know, like, if I'm working on a car, she sit over there with a book and read. Okay. And then we'll go do something you want to do, you know? Okay. And then we. So it always worked out. It wasn't always. What are we doing now? You know, I used to have friends, comedians, dated civilians. Why do you have to do a show every night? Why do you have to go to the nightclub every night? Because that's my job. And they have these ridiculous files. They go, what are you doing with her? It's not working.
- [15:41]
Hoda Kotb
Did Mavis ever say to you, you're working too much?
- [15:44]
Jay Leno
No, no, no, no. I never got any of that. No, it was always fine because I always brought her. You did? Yeah. So, yeah, to me, it was like if I was going to Hawaii, I would bring her or something.
- [15:57]
Hoda Kotb
What did you love about her?
- [15:59]
Jay Leno
Well, just the whole package, really. It's not that. You know, it's like I say, I'm more a live by example, you know, that kind of. I'm not. It was just very. Well, it still is very comfortable. I mean, before she had this, I would always go home after the timeshare, cook dinner for her, and watch tv. The only difference is now you just can't really talk about a lot of things. Cause it's just.
- [16:25]
Hoda Kotb
Does she remember you?
- [16:26]
Jay Leno
Oh, yeah. That's not a problem. You know, real big with the flashcards, you know.
- [16:30]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, yeah.
- [16:31]
Jay Leno
Well, not flashcards, but. See this picture? See this picture? Who's that? That's President Obama. Oh, I never met him. Yeah, honey, we had dinner with him at his house, the White House. We laugh and that kind of thing. And so that's what we do on a regular basis and just.
- [16:47]
Hoda Kotb
Do you worry that she'll forget you? Sometimes.
- [16:52]
Jay Leno
Well, I mean, I understand what it is, so I don't. You can't blame someone. She's not forgetting me, you know, that hasn't happened yet. She seems very. I mean, she seems extremely comfortable now. And, you know, she would drink, like, seven or eight Coca Colas a day, this kind of stuff. She just liked Coca Cola. She had a Coke habit. Yeah. Yeah, so. And got rid of that. Got rid of the salt, got rid of. So her diet is actually much better. And she seems happy, and she seems contented. Mm. It's actually okay. It's good, you know, I enjoy taking care of her. I'm always there, you know, so it's. When I go on the road, I try to come back the same day. I went to Puerto Rico for the day the other day, got off, tell Jo Wright, Joe, get checked, get back on the plane, come back out the same day. You know, so. And that's kind of how it goes.
- [17:51]
Hoda Kotb
You know, it's interesting because she strikes me as a fiercely independent person. Oh, yeah. Her whole life.
- [17:58]
Jay Leno
Well, actually, you know, that's part of it, because now she really needs me, and I like that. A lot of guys have the white knight syndrome. You know, they want to rescue somebody, you know, but it usually turns out to be a nightmare. For me, it was very good because she needs me, and I can actually do these things for her. And she's very appreciative, and I can tell that she appreciates it. And, you know, it's actually okay. It's okay. I mean, she was so independent before, and that was fine. Whatever. That's fine. But the fact that, you know, not that I have to do everything for her, but I don't mind. I enjoy it.
- [18:34]
Hoda Kotb
What kind of things do you get to do for her?
- [18:38]
Jay Leno
Well, all the things that you have to do for someone that has. I mean, it's. You know, it's not the most romantic, carrying people to the bathroom and things, but, you know, you go, here's my thing. I guess this is it. I've been very lucky. I wasn't drafted. My life has been pretty good. I really haven't been tested. You know, I think everybody. You should be tested in your life. And I always wonder, what would I do in a situation? Would I cut and run? Would I do something else? Would I go, you know, someone. And this is the most show business thing about this. Someone said to me, this is so show business. Someone says, well, are you gonna get a girlfriend now? I go, no, I'm not gonna get a girlfriend. I have A girlfriend. But just the idea that. Oh, well, I. You know, I think. No, I said, that's the stupidest question. He goes, well, I'm just thinking, you know, I don't. I don't have any needs. Okay? My needs. I mean, it just struck me as so funny because it's such a Hollywood, selfish question.
- [19:39]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [19:39]
Jay Leno
So I guess you got a good girlfriend. No, I'm not going to get a girl. How could I go out with? I mean. Yeah, it just. It just made me laugh. It just made me laugh at. What planet are you on? And the idea that you get married and you take these vows, nobody ever thinks they'll be called upon to act on them, you know. You know, that part's better or worse? Well, not really. No, of course. I mean, if it's worse, that's awful. You can't have that. But even the worst is not that bad, you know, it's okay. Like I say, it's not. She's not screaming in pain. And when she looks at me and smiles and says she loves me, I melt. You know, the hardest part for me is giving her the medicine because, you know. Well, now I have to hide it in ice cream. Honey, you want some ice cream? Yeah. Okay.
- [20:27]
Hoda Kotb
You know, why is that hard to give it to her?
- [20:29]
Jay Leno
Because she'll still want it. I don't want to take my. Honey, you just said. No, no, no. I don't want to argue, you know, so. With the ice cream Honey wants. Oh, yeah, that's great.
- [20:40]
Hoda Kotb
It's good ice cream.
- [20:41]
Jay Leno
Yeah. One day, I didn't realize, one of the pills, she goes crunching. What's that? I said, that's a piece of chocolate. It must be from the pistachio, you know.
- [20:49]
Hoda Kotb
What's her day to day like?
- [20:51]
Jay Leno
Well, she sleeps a lot, you know. You know, we're lying in bed, I'll hold her hand till she falls asleep. So it's like about two hours of this. And then I put the covers on and I go over here and I go to sleep. And when I have to work, someone comes in and takes care of her. Mary Elena, our housekeeper, who's been with me 40 years. I mean, you know, that's my family now, you know, so it's really kind of cool. You know, we put our kids through college, so it's really. It's a family. It's not like it's strange. It's not like it's strangers in the house. In the house, you know?
- [21:32]
Hoda Kotb
Well, I remember actually interviewing you right here in your garage before. After you had those severe burns. And the thing I remember the most about the whole interview was that you said before you went into the er, you went home because you didn't want your wife to be afraid.
- [21:49]
Jay Leno
Well, she had this then, and my face caught fire and I went to the hospital and they said, okay, you gotta come in right now. I said, well, I gotta go home first. No, no, you can't go home. I said, well, look, my wife doesn't know if I don't show up. So I go home, okay, my face is still burning, so I go to sleep. And when I'm sleeping, okay, my face is still burning. So now my face has melded into the pillow, you know, so I'm like, ah, so now I have to get up, walk in the bathroom with the pillow. Ouch. Cuts the pillow off my face. I pulled the hospital and I have, I guess, pillow face, I guess you call it. And, you know, he says, what happened? Well, I fell asleep and I guess it was still hot under the skin, you know, so. Yeah, so, yeah, that was pretty funny.
- [22:41]
Hoda Kotb
When you came home that night, I didn't really know what your wife said. Did she notice or.
- [22:46]
Jay Leno
Well, yeah, when your husband's face is on fire, you tend to notice. You said, what happened? I'm okay, and I just feel a little burn inside. Are you sure? Yeah. Okay.
- [22:56]
Hoda Kotb
Okay.
- [23:01]
Podcast Host (Hoda Kotb)
More ahead with Jay Leno when we come back.
- [23:15]
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- [24:03]
Reese's Advertiser
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- [24:20]
Jay Leno
Hello.
- [24:21]
Reese's Advertiser
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- [24:36]
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- [24:42]
Jay Leno
What about toys?
- [24:43]
Podcast Host (Hoda Kotb)
Do they have brands kids have been wanting all year?
- [24:45]
Hoda Kotb
Yup.
- [24:46]
Jay Leno
Barbie, Tonys, and Lego. Gifts that will make them all cheer. Do you mean they have all the brands I adore? They have Nintendo, Nespresso, Apple, and more. What about.
- [24:56]
Walmart Advertiser
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- [25:11]
Hoda Kotb
Your wife was fighting for the rights of Afghan women before anyone.
- [25:15]
Jay Leno
Oh, yeah, yeah. Very proud of you. Very proud about it. Got a Nobel Peace Prize nomination.
- [25:19]
Reese's Advertiser
Yes.
- [25:19]
Hoda Kotb
Got a Nobel Peace Prize nomination. She has this incredible body of work, but she's her whole life. Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [25:26]
Jay Leno
She's great.
- [25:26]
Hoda Kotb
So for her, when she wasn't able to be a helper, I mean, you were bearing witness to it. She was probably thinking, well, I still have work to do. I have things I need to do. How did you help her through that period?
- [25:38]
Jay Leno
Well, I would take her group as a feminist majority, and they would have events, and I would take it to her when she was still able to walk around and do stuff. And it was okay. It was fine. You just kind of covering for. Yeah.
- [25:51]
Hoda Kotb
Was it a thing about hiding it for a while?
- [25:53]
Jay Leno
No.
- [25:54]
Hoda Kotb
No.
- [25:55]
Jay Leno
I don't know what you're gonna hide. I mean, it's Hollywood, you know, the only thing. It's cocaine, cheating on your wife. Those are the ones you hide. Yeah, that's the ones people hide. You know, it is sort of odd. Although I must admit, the press has been pretty good, you know, because sometimes I would see paparazzi when I'm walking down the street with her, and I go, can you shoot from across the street?
- [26:17]
Reese's Advertiser
Oh, okay.
- [26:18]
Jay Leno
Okay. You know, I usually get. You know, I'm not the kind of guy that has problems with the paparazzi. They just make me laugh because I'm thinking, if you're following me, it is a slow paparazzi day. I mean, there's nothing here that's gonna be even mildly interesting unless you got a guy that has some carburetion problems and wants to have his car fixed. But, yeah, so they've always been pretty good.
- [26:41]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah. What do you guys talk about, like, with the conversations that you have these days?
- [26:47]
Jay Leno
Well, I mean, the conversation, it'll be, what's the point? And say something that doesn't quite make sense. And I'll go, no, it's good, honey. It's all right. It is, you know. Oh, good. So I sense she wants to be reassured that everything's okay. Everything's okay. You know, you hear a noise outside. What's that? You know? No, it's fine. You know, try not to have too many disturbing images on tv, you know, I mean, sometimes you think it's fine, and she'll be. Is that person gonna be okay? And I realized, oh, boy, she's.
- [27:18]
Hoda Kotb
She's seeing it as a.
- [27:19]
Jay Leno
Into the story here, a real thing.
- [27:21]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [27:21]
Jay Leno
So you try to change the news and not try to, you know, show the crying children of Biafra and all this kind of stuff on the news where she gets really upset or, you know, like with the women's issues in Afghanistan. So, yeah, you just sort of. You just kind of use common sense, I guess.
- [27:39]
Hoda Kotb
You know, the phrase you say the most out of every phrase just since I've been sitting here. It's fine. I'm fine. We're fine.
- [27:47]
Jay Leno
That's. Well, it is fine. You know, I really have.
- [27:50]
Hoda Kotb
No.
- [27:51]
Jay Leno
I've been very lucky. I mean, I don't know what people do who are teachers or policemen, and they have a family member with this, you know, so to me, you know, the idea that you have something like, shut up, whiny show business people, it's really annoying to me. I mean, there are people that. They don't have any. I'm lucky. I can have someone come in when I'm not there for four or five hours to help Mavis around and, you know, all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, so that's okay. So that's why it is fine. It is fine.
- [28:29]
Hoda Kotb
Does she enjoy a good meal?
- [28:31]
Jay Leno
You know, her appetite's really come back. Yeah, it's really come back. Cause she was just really out of it, and I thought, well, let me get some. So the nice thing is, you know, this is California, and in the Beverly Hills area, you have access to the best psychiatric people and all that kind of stuff. So it's very good. It's very good. So she's calm, and she seems happy. And, you know, I have nurses come in twice a week, and they take her blood and make sure everything's all right. That and, you know, change sheets and do all this kind of stuff. So it's good. I enjoy it. It's like 25% less than what it used to be. I'll put it that way. I mean. I mean, I wish I could take her out and go out to eat and do things like that. But you can't really. I mean, we'll get some help and we'll take her out the car and we'll drive around and look at stuff and she likes that. But yeah, I mean, I feel bad we can't do that because there's so many things you reach this point in your life where she loved to travel. To me it was. That was my nightmare. Remember we went to the Eiffel Tower? No, I've never been there, honey. Yeah, we did. I was on the Eiffel. I don't know. To me it's, you know.
- [29:39]
Hoda Kotb
So she would love to go to.
- [29:41]
Jay Leno
Christmas marts in Germany and all that kind of stuff and I would send her and her mom and oh, they would have a great time, you know, so I'm sad that she can't do those things. But you know, there's so much stuff on YouTube, the travel stuff and we watch those things and you know, the animal shows and all that kind of.
- [29:59]
Hoda Kotb
Is she listening to music? Is there anything that's.
- [30:01]
Jay Leno
No, we're not, we're not a big music group. Yeah, I'm not a big. I mean, to me, when I turn music off I go, oh, this is rather pleasant. I can read and think now. Music blaring in my ear.
- [30:13]
Hoda Kotb
I love it.
- [30:16]
Podcast Host (Hoda Kotb)
More to come with Jay Leno. Stay with us.
- [30:25]
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- [30:55]
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- [31:12]
Jay Leno
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- [31:44]
Hoda Kotb
My other favorite thing you said was that this is when she really needs you now, and she didn't really physically need you. I mean, she loves you, obviously, but she didn't need you throughout her life. And now she didn't need you. I didn't need you in that way.
- [31:57]
Jay Leno
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I know, I know. I know. You know, I mean, I like that. I mean, I'm a performer, having a good audience, you know, making her smile.
- [32:08]
Hoda Kotb
Is you still making her laugh?
- [32:10]
Jay Leno
Yeah, yeah.
- [32:11]
Hoda Kotb
What does that.
- [32:12]
Jay Leno
Last night I said to her, guy goes to the doctor. Doctor says, what's the matter? He goes, when I press here, it hurts. When I press my shoulder, it hurts. When I press my kneecap, it hurts. And when I press my rib cage, it hurts. Doctor says, you got a broken finger. You know, and she really. I mean, she really laughed at that. I mean, it's such a stupid. It's just stupid. And, you know, and that's kind of. That's. That's kind of what's fun, you know. You know, anything involving anthropomorphic, you know, like the cat. I mean, I will say, just as a matter of course, honey, the cat asleep last night, and the cat took the butter knife out of the kitchen, and I woke up with both of polishes pressing it against my. But I don't think she realized how dull the butter knife was. And she starts laughing at that, you know, just like the cat in front of getting a steak knife. See, being a cat, it gets the butter knife. You have to. You have to pick the knife. Catch on catching on. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God.
- [33:20]
Hoda Kotb
I mean, that's.
- [33:21]
Jay Leno
You know, that's kind of. So, I mean, writing jokes for her or making her laugh, I always try to think of something I come in with to get her to smile. And it works. I mean, there's no anger. It's not. Because I know I talk to a lot of people and the people with anger issues, I mean, if I sense it's going that way, you just. No, actually, no, it's okay, honey. Everything's good. It is? Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. You know, that works. So, you know. But yeah, but yeah, the cat with the button, with both its paws, you know, it's pressing down, it's trying to kill me, and, oh, I wake up, you know.
- [33:58]
Hoda Kotb
Do you sometimes see, like, glimmers from her moments that takes you right back, that she's 100% with you?
- [34:06]
Jay Leno
Well, it's interesting because the worst Part was probably six months ago, because then it was just everything was a fog since we got, you know, nutritious meals. One of the things she doesn't do is exercise. She's just. Okay, I let go. Let go. That seems to have really helped. It's not quite as much of a fog because, you know, we're watching something the other day, he said, oh, that's the guy from the Bourne Identity. Oh, you remember? Yeah, yeah, that's Jeremy Renner. Remember, he had the accident with the. Oh, wow. With the snowplow. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. So, look, I'm a realist. I know it's not. It's not going to get better. Better.
- [34:50]
Hoda Kotb
But those flashes aren't realistic than it was.
- [34:52]
Commercial Break Announcer
Yeah.
- [34:53]
Jay Leno
Because plenty of sleep, good food, just trying to keep her happy. Yeah. It seems to work. You know, if I was a doctor, I would say the patient is doing. Well, put it that way. So it's not like I go home every day and it's screaming and who are you? And, I mean, that's the reality for a lot of people, sure. But it's not. And I think it's the fact that it's always gentle. And you talk and, you know, trying to make her laugh and try to have things that she thinks are funny. And when you're married, you know, does.
- [35:32]
Hoda Kotb
She bring up stuff from, like, when you guys were younger, when you were dating? Do those.
- [35:36]
Jay Leno
Oh, sure.
- [35:36]
Hoda Kotb
Moments come.
- [35:37]
Jay Leno
Oh, yeah, we always do that. You know, when I'm carrying her. Carry her leg in the bathroom, we do this, and I call her Jane Mavis at the Promise in high school. You know, so it's like back and forth, you know, she stops, she thinks that's funny, you know, so you carry her out to the toilet over there. I'm just trying to get her over there. Look, honey, it's Jade and Mavis at the prom. You know, just that bad. Cause neither of us can dance, so that's.
- [36:04]
Hoda Kotb
But by the way, that's it. No wonder why she's calm and feeling loved and all those things. Because that simple act of taking your wife to the bathroom.
- [36:14]
Jay Leno
Yeah. You know, it's not the most romantic thing, really, when you think about it.
- [36:18]
Hoda Kotb
But Jay and Mavis going to the prom sounds pretty cool.
- [36:20]
Jay Leno
Yeah. Yeah. But you realize, okay, I mean, that's what marriage is. It's the whole. You get to run the whole spectrum of emotions and everything. And, you know, it brings you closer. You know, when someone said to me, you know, are you going to get a girlfriend? I wouldn't I never. No, I'm not. It doesn't even occur to me because it's just. Okay, look, we had great times, okay? This is not that time right now.
- [36:49]
Hoda Kotb
Okay?
- [36:50]
Jay Leno
That's fine.
- [36:51]
Hoda Kotb
By the way, I bet you've learned so much about marriage through this part, because I think you're right. Some people, when the going gets tough, they say, you know. Well.
- [36:59]
Jay Leno
Well, I always say the greatest love stories are the ones that have been written, you know, because people don't want to give it away. You know, you're afraid the secret's gonna get out and somehow it will affect you, you know, And I think that's the case here. You know, I'm very comfortable. Like, I am somebody in show business, which is an odd. Most times, show business people and civilians, people not in show business don't really get along that well. They just don't understand each other. That is not the case here. You know, after the Tonight Show, I enjoyed going home. I didn't want to go to a club or hang out or so. And so, you know, I always tell people, I can always tell when guys take the long way home. Well, that's a bad sign because you're just. You're just trying to get away.
- [37:51]
Hoda Kotb
How would you describe your love story now?
- [37:55]
Jay Leno
Oh, how would I describe it now? You know, I always liked. Like, when I watch Magic, I don't like the guy that makes the Empire State Building disappear or the elephant. I like the disappearing dime trick right in front of you, you know, and to me, small moments are what. You know, when I was a kid, I saw the movie Marty with Ernest Borgnine. And that movie really affected me because it's the first time. Well, it's the second time I had empathy, you know, and you realize, here's a kind of unattractive man. He meets kind of a dull girl, and his friends are going, come on, we're going to the club. We're meet some hot dames, you know, all that kind of talk, like from the 50s. And he likes this girl that none of his guys think he should be with, but he's actually the ideal person for him, you know, and it's kind of like that. It's kind of like that. It's not right for everybody, but it's right for me, you know?
- [38:57]
Hoda Kotb
So the love story is like the small moments, little things.
- [39:01]
Jay Leno
Yeah, I think it is. I mean, I'm not sure, you know, it's not these people that have, like, the big wedding with something, you know, you have these guys, they give the girl, a ring, but it's encased in a block of cement, and they give her a jackhammer and she has to break it over together. You know, men don't really have a good idea of what? Romance.
- [39:23]
Commercial Break Announcer
You know what I mean?
- [39:24]
Jay Leno
You meet guys exist, they think, oh, she's gonna love this. They hate it. Yeah. One the other night where a cop pulls a woman over and starts screaming and gives her a tick, and then the husband comes in. Honey, you marry me.
- [39:34]
Hoda Kotb
What? That was, like, the worst proposal of all time.
- [39:39]
Jay Leno
He thought it'd be a really funny romance. Yeah.
- [39:41]
Hoda Kotb
How do you know? How does Mavis show you that she loves you these days? How do you know?
- [39:47]
Jay Leno
Well, by saying it, you know, I can see the smile. I can tell when she's happy. So. And that's really it. And that as someone who's in show business, I go home and I get an audience reaction every night. I get. I say something. Oh, okay. I pleased the person I'm entertaining, so to speak, to put it in basic terms, you know, And I say, oh. And that's okay. I mean, it's fun. If I'm driving home and I think, oh, what would Mavis laugh? Oh, let me. Let me. Let me work something out with the cat or something, you know, some stupid thing, you know? I mean, I got a turkey hen. Well, I ate the turkey, but we just had this giant carcass, you know? So I told Mavis, I said, honey, I gave the cat some turkey. I took a picture. And so the cat. The turkey carcass is like, this big, and the cat is standing next to it, like she's just eating the whole turkey. I said, mavis, the cat really likes turkey.
- [40:46]
Hoda Kotb
She crack up.
- [40:47]
Jay Leno
Yeah, yeah. Just so. Just stupid, Stupid. Just, you know. Yeah, yeah. Just stupid thing.
- [40:54]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [40:55]
Jay Leno
Yeah. But, I mean, that's. I don't know. It's hard to say. You know, I grew up in New England, and. New England. When you grow up in New England, you read Ethan Frome, Silas Marner, all these horrible, depressing stories, and then she dies, and then you live in hell. You know, just the horrible. Just the horrible. It's freezing cold, and you're in a barn, and, you know, just horrible stories. So to me, anything good is like, oh, that's fine. It's not Ethan Fromm. It's not Silas. Marna, that's fine.
- [41:21]
Hoda Kotb
Well, you're just a really good man.
- [41:24]
Jay Leno
Well, I thought. Well, I'm working on it.
- [41:26]
Hoda Kotb
That's all there is.
- [41:27]
Jay Leno
Well, thank you.
- [41:32]
Podcast Host (Hoda Kotb)
Hey, guys. Thank you so much. For listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening Listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger and Mitch Rissmiller, along with Kate Saunders. Our Associate Audio Engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineers are Joe Plord, Corey Liben and Gerald DeFazio. Original music by John Estes. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our Executive producer. Libby Least is the executive vice president of Today and Lifestyle.
- [42:24]
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