← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Laura Day on Practical Intuition, Personal Growth and the Power of Small Changes
00:55:24
Laura Day is a New York Times bestselling author and renowned intuitive who has spent more than four decades teaching people how to use intuition as a practical, evidence-based tool for change. Laura opens up to Hoda Kotb about the pain that shaped her purpose, how science and intuition helped her navigate profound loss, and the actionable framework behind her book “The Prism: Seven Steps to Heal Your Past and Transform Your Future.” Plus, she explains why lasting transformation comes from small, intentional shifts, clear goals, and learning to work with reality rather than relying on belief alone.
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- [00:00]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.
- [00:03]
Drew Ski
Zoe, this thing weighs a ton. Drew Ski, live with your legs, man.
- [00:06]
Laura Day
Santa.
- [00:06]
Drew Ski
Santa, did you get my letter? He's talking to you britches.
- [00:09]
Laura Day
I'm not.
- [00:10]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
Of course he did.
- [00:11]
Laura Day
Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.
- [00:15]
Drew Ski
And elf. I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T Mobile, you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies, right, Mrs. Claus?
- [00:25]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
I'm Mrs. Claus Claus much younger sister. And AT T Mobile, there's no trade in needed when you switch, so you can keep your old phone or give.
- [00:32]
Laura Day
It as a gift.
- [00:33]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
And the best part, you can make the switch to T mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes.
- [00:37]
Drew Ski
Nice. My side of the tree is slipping. Kimber, the holidays are better. AT T Mobile switch in just 15 minutes and get iPhone 17 on us with no trade in needed. And now T Mobile is available in US cellular stores with 34 monthly bill credits for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 vice connection charge Credit sentinel balance due to payout earlier. Cancel finance agreement. 256 gigs $830 eligible Ford in a new line, $100 plus a month plan with auto fees required. Check out 15 minutes or less per line.
- [00:59]
Laura Day
Visit t mobile.com hey neighbor. This holiday season, Birch Lane is here.
- [01:03]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
To help you celebrate with friends and family. From guest ready dining tables to cozy sofas that fit the whole crew, our classic furniture and decor are crafted to last.
- [01:12]
Laura Day
And with fast free delivery, you can.
- [01:14]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
Be ready for holiday hosting in days, not weeks.
- [01:17]
Laura Day
So you can spend time on what matters most.
- [01:20]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
Its classic style for joyful living. Shop Birch Lane, a Wayfair specialty brand@birchlane.com.
- [01:34]
Hoda Kotb
Have you ever met someone who sees the world so uniquely that you think, how could she know that Laura Day is one of those people? She's a New York Times bestselling author and a trusted intuitive known for what she calls practical intuition. For more than four decades, she's helped celebrities, Fortune 500 CEOs and scientists tap into their own inner wisdom to find success in business and in life. Even being called the psychic of Wall street by the British outlet the independent. Brad Pitt once said, I believe in the gut and I believe in Laura Day. But behind those headlines is a woman who turned her own pain into purpose. After a childhood marked by neglect, abuse and loss, she found a path to healing and has devoted her life to helping others do the same. In our conversation, she reflects on turning trauma into strength, balancing Science with Spirit and how clarity comes when you learn to listen to yourself. Much of what she details in her book, the Seven Steps to Heal youl Past and Transform youm Future. I'm Hoda Kotb, and this is my podcast, Making Space. Laura, I'm so excited to be talking to you. I've been admiring you. I've been listening to you. I've been stalking you.
- [03:02]
Laura Day
Right back at you.
- [03:04]
Hoda Kotb
I've been loving all the things you're talking about. So when I heard there was this book out called, and I'm holding it up now, the Prism 7 Steps to Heal your Past and Transform your Future, I was like, I've got to get this. You've written a ton of books. How did this one arrive into the world through you?
- [03:20]
Laura Day
Most of the books I've written are about intuition and because. And what people call psychic skills, although not my favorite term. And. And because intuition, when it's really acute, when you can really use it, is because of trauma. I also wrote intuition and crisis. And you know, how to make your intuition subconscious so you don't go into OCD trying to predict what's going to happen. And. But it was all about intuition. Intuition. And then at a certain point, between the deaths of my brother and sister, which I'm sure we'll speak about later, between their suicides, I realized that as intuitive as we all are, the thing that saved me was not intuition. It was a real understanding. Not understanding in my head, but understanding in my intuitive actions of what the mechanics of making change, of living life, of creating our goals, of falling apart and still being contained enough to come back together. What those mechanics are and how they'd been over complicated by really what we used to call the new age in the old days. I don't know what they call it now. And so I wanted to give it as a. I really wanted to give it as a tool because it saved my life.
- [04:43]
Hoda Kotb
Let's talk about your life, because a lot of people know your life and some don't. And I have. You know, I've sat with people who have had traumatic childhoods. Viola Davis told me her story, and my heart broke in my hands. It was like I asked her, how would you describe your childhood in one word? And she said, I was hungry and that. And she said, and when you're hungry, there's not one other thing you can think of. Shania Twain had a similar background where she described how she would watch kids throw food away and she wanted to just go rifle through the trash. And she Said she's not famous because she has ambition. She was famous out of desperation. That's what gave her her gift. And then I read about you and what you went through. Will you just describe, if you can, what your childhood was like?
- [05:32]
Laura Day
I will. You know, it's funny. Someone asked me the other day what was the hardest part of the book for you and for me. I wrote this little chunk of memoir, and then I forgot about it, and then it comes up in interviews, and I thought, oh, my God, did I really write about that? But I really wanted people to know that it really doesn't matter where you start. It's really where you end up. I was born into, you know, my father was what we used to call a white glove doctor at New York Hospital, Cornell in New York. My mot was an heiress, although we were all disinherited because she killed herself before her mother died. And we grew up really in incredible neglect and also weird dissonance because I actually went to the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, which used to be on 14th street between 8th, 7th and 8th Avenue, from my private school. It was a bus stop between the two buses. I took the public buses, and they didn't. They wouldn't believe I showed them bruises. They wouldn't believe me. And I. So I. We grew up at five years old. I was living in an apartment next door to my parents. My mother, when she wasn't in a psych ward, and my father, who was rarely home because he was still a young doctor with three younger children. My mother, a manic depressive, had four children in. In four and a half years, so I could do a diaper at four. Wait, what do you mean that you.
- [07:01]
Hoda Kotb
Were living in your own apartment? What does that mean?
- [07:04]
Laura Day
So we had two apartments that were next door to each other. You had to actually go out into a public hallway and ring the doorbell because the doors were locked to get to an adult. This is before cell phones. There wasn't a phone in our apartment. I mean, we. In an emergency, we would bang on the wall because there was a connecting wall and hope somebody would hear us. But, you know, people either fall apart or they respond. And I responded to this situation by going on automatic pilot. So in a sense, I wasn't really there. In a weird way, it wasn't even really traumatic because I was absent.
- [07:41]
Hoda Kotb
So you were caring for your siblings at age 5?
- [07:45]
Laura Day
At age 5, you know, not 24 hours a day, but there were many times when during the night, nobody was there during the day, nobody was there. People would forget to feed us. As we got older, we would divvy up the apartments in the building. I remember one of my mother's suicide attempts. My grandmother didn't want me to call 911. She had been staying with us during this particularly violent time between my parents. And she said, the neighbors will know. And I said, grandma, the neighbors know. Like, it never occurred to me to be embarrassed. And it never occurred to me that the neighbors didn't know. The screaming, the police coming, the ambulance. Like it never occurred to me who was abusing you? You know, my, my father. There was just neglect, but also when you're unsupervised, the, the whole, everybody knows, you can really tell. You know, victim, children are marked. And so I was molested. I, you know, I don't want to talk about what happened to my siblings, but worse happened to my siblings. You know, I was lucky, I think birth order wise to have gotten a little tiny bit of, of semi intact thanks to Thorazine for my mother. Semi intact parents, but children, I mean, I, I was raped. Nobody was watching, you know, I was molested because nobody was watching. Now my experience, you know, it's interesting because people, when they read other people's early childhoods and mine is far from the worst. I mean, I, I sit with people because I teach and I sit with people and they come to me with their stories and mine, you know, to some, I mean, I got an education. I went to Stuyvesant, which is a wonderful high school in New York. Once my mother died, we were all taken out of private school. And that was such a blessing. I had an opera dress but no gym sneakers. That, that was the wisdom upon which my childhood was based. And so very early on, the fact that my brain is structured differently now, they call it neurodivergent, but back then they just called it, you know, you're achieving below your potential and you can't sit still in a chair and you forget to eat for days, which was fine because there was no food anyway. But I was lucky because something came through me and enabled me because of the looseness of my brain, enabled me to, to do what I needed to do. Not to know what to do because knowing assumes that you retain it. But it was really kind of a prosthetic exoskeleton that would come over me and move and do what was needed. And it was really, it wasn't until my brother committed suicide. And then my, that two years between that the words really came to me, oh, this is what saved me?
- [10:47]
Hoda Kotb
So describe when you realized, because you say intuition is something we all have somewhere, it's something that we just bury or don't pay attention to. How did you get yours and how can we get ours?
- [10:59]
Laura Day
We train intellect and emotions and social skills and all of these things. We train them from the moment we're born. Intuition is also always there, just like your intellect. You had a nascent intellect that grew. You had nascent emotions that had to be structured. Intuition is part of that. We don't train it. And we don't train it because it often goes against our other skills. Companies hire me not because I'm logical, heaven knows. Companies hire me because I can see something in the future that makes no sense now and trace it back so they can say, oh, maybe she's not just crazy. And they can't see it because in the moment it doesn't make sense. I was very synchronistically because of course, one of the wonderful things to be born to survival if you do indeed survive, which my siblings did not. But one of the wonderful things is that your automatic pilot is about survival. And so I fell into synchronistically. My intuition led me to a TV show that I saw synchronistically about different places that were doing research, different scientists that were doing research on extrasensory perception, the extended capacities of human perception. And I thought, oh, wow, doesn't. I mean, you know, when you're in your 20s, you think everybody, anything good, everybody has, and anything, everything bad, everyone has and, you know, nothing is. You're just a mishmash. But I thought, oh, wow, am I special in the good way instead of in the bad way. And so I called them up and I said, you know, I can do what you're talking about. What then happened is in my first book, Practical Intuition, because one of the first people who worked with me wrote, wrote something for it. And I realized that, oh, wow, this, everyone doesn't do this to the degree I do this. Everyone can do it, but you have to have a pretty messed up neurology to do it the way I. To the degree to which I do it. And so I got. I was young, I was in my early 20s, and I got passed around to all of these programs and I did it on the condition of anonymity because my grandfather was still alive and he was a physician at research hospital, also very abusive. My father was alive, he was a white glove doctor at New York Hospital, Cornell. Like, this was not something they'd given me a list of things I Couldn't be. When I grew up, they didn't even think of this one. And I was still young enough to be compliant. So I did it on the condition of anonymity. And they televised one of the. By the way, if you want to get a word in because of my add, you have to interrupt. So I had an instant following because I'm basically a math and science nerd. I'm not creative. I'm not, you know, I'm not kind of airy. I tended to work with drug research. AIDS was new on the scene, and I worked with an amazing researcher named Dr. Larry Waits on some of the first AIDS drugs. I like business. I did politics for a little while and then got terrified. Truly the scariest thing. You don't want to even tell them you're seeing what you're seeing because. But I wanted things where I knew that weren't subjective, where I knew whether I was crazy like my mother and probably my father, or if this was actually a skill. So I came to it through. Through science. And that's how I teach it.
- [14:46]
Hoda Kotb
I love it. Here's a question that some people. I've got a bunch of questions that people gave me. But how can I trust my intuition when it conflicts with what my heart wants? How do you know whether it's your gut, your heart, your intuition? How are you supposed to know?
- [14:59]
Laura Day
So that's a really interesting question. First of all, let's take the word trust. You shouldn't. My feeling is you shouldn't trust anything ever. There's a phrase I love, which is the good scientist suspends disbelief. Suspends it doesn't throw it in the garbage and runs the experiment anyway. So what your heart wants is. And the reason I call it the prism is that's a structure of I. The structure of you. What your heart wants is often what your heart wanted and didn't get and nothing you want. Now, I mean, I wanted piano lessons for ages until I realized, why do I want piano lessons?
- [15:41]
Hoda Kotb
You know, or the kind of guy who you think you want because you always wanted that, right?
- [15:46]
Laura Day
Exactly. Or the kind of affirmation you want. I mean, people often look for partners who actually are who they want to become or the area of society they want to be accepted by. So throw out belief and actually throw out your heart for a moment. Because hearts are unreliable and they can be made reliable. What you need are goals. Step back. And what I mean by that is, in a moment when you are hungry, what do you think would feed you? And then in that moment, don't think about it because again, you think from an old paradigm. But what the PRISM demands of you is go to that section that covers that need and do one tiny thing differently. Give an example, one of my. I'm going to give a recent example of someone we both know. So Kevin Yuvain is my dearest friend and my biggest champion. And he, when before this book came out and you know, he's also, I love it, but I have a lot of bossy friends. He calls me up in New York and he's in LA and he says, I booked you a show tomorrow in la. Hair and makeup's ready, you have a first class ticket, your room is ready, the driver's yours. Big national show. So, you know, get on your plane, it's being delivered. Do you need my housekeeper to come back for you? And I said to him, I can't do that, that's tomorrow. Like, no. And he goes, and you know Kevin, he goes, whoa. The response is, wow. And thank you, Kevin. And from that moment with this book, because I'm a true introvert, I don't know if you know the Myers Briggs, it's a personality test. You can't get more introverted on that scale from that moment on, because I really do live by synchronicities. I don't believe, but I have documented the synchronicities really show you what's going on. Everything that happened, I said, I mean that was legal and moral. I said yes. And wow. So that I. That and that tiny change. I booked three or four, I booked. Kevin booked for me three or four national shows that week and I had a ball. The great thing is we're systems. So you change one thing and you change everything. And of course it wasn't, you know, change is interesting. I still, when someone says even, do you want to try a new cheese? I'm like, no, it's new. My husband says, my worst and my best quality is I love who I'm with and where I am. And I do not aspire to more. But I'm also a very stuck person, which is why I use the prism. But then I remember the hu Vane effect. Wow. Yes.
- [18:45]
Hoda Kotb
Wow. Yes, I love that. More with Laura Day. When we come back, Royal Caribbean is next level on another level. Go all in on the world's boldest ships. Filled with mind blowing entertainment, world class dining and the largest water parks at sea. And just when you think it couldn't.
- [19:11]
Drew Ski
Get any better, you'll stop at our award winning private island. Perfect day at Coco Cay this is.
- [19:16]
Hoda Kotb
The undisputed champion of vacations book today@royalcaribbean.com Big time, best time, all the time.
- [19:24]
Drew Ski
Come seek the Royal Caribbean.
- [19:28]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.
- [19:30]
Drew Ski
Zoe, this thing weighs a ton. Drew Ski, lift with your legs, man.
- [19:34]
Laura Day
Santa.
- [19:34]
Hoda Kotb
Santa.
- [19:34]
Drew Ski
Santa, did you get my letter? He's talking to you, Bridges.
- [19:37]
Laura Day
I'm not.
- [19:38]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
Of course he did.
- [19:39]
Laura Day
Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.
- [19:43]
Drew Ski
And elf, I'm six' three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T mobile. You can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. Right, Mrs. Claus?
- [19:53]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
I'm Mrs. Claus's much younger sister and AT T Mobile there's no trade in needed when you switch. So you can keep your old phone.
- [19:59]
Laura Day
Or give it a suggestion.
- [20:01]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
And the best part, you can make the switch to T mobile from your phone in just 15 minutes.
- [20:05]
Laura Day
Nice.
- [20:05]
Drew Ski
My side of the tree is slipping. Kimber. The holidays are better. AT T Mobile switch in just 15 minutes and get iPhone 17 on us with no trade in needed. And now T mobile is available in US cellular stores with 24 month credits for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credits and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement 256 gigs $830 eligible for in a new line 100 plus a month plan with auto paypal taxes fees required to account 15 minutes or less per line to@t mobile.com Lowe's December deal drops are here just in time to give your home some love before holiday hosting this week, get up to 35% off select major appliances and members save an additional $60 on the MayTag top load laundry pair now just $9.96 plus save up to $20 on select Moen kitchen and bathroom faucets shop. December deal drops all month long. Lowe's we help you save valid through 1217 while supplies last selection varies by location. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions. See lowe's.com terms for details.
- [21:03]
Hoda Kotb
A lot of people, and I know people are listening and they want answers to their questions. So this one says, what do I do if I feel like I've outgrown my career, but I have no idea what's next? I think a lot of people are on the right on the edge. They want to jump, but they need insurance and they need a paycheck and they're afraid. But how do you know?
- [21:23]
Laura Day
How do you know?
- [21:24]
Hoda Kotb
You don't.
- [21:24]
Laura Day
You don't. And this is again the reason that I wrote the prism, because there's too much jumping. You don't jump. Jumping is not safe. It's not good for your joints. And you can hurt yourself. I'm not big on that. What you do is in this moment, what's one thing you can do? And again, you can go to that chapter, but just ask someone else because one of the biggest mind twists is the whole think outside the box idea. You can't. You are the box. So go to somebody who has done, you know, a friend, but not a family member, not someone who has a pony in your race and say, wow, right now, today, this hour, what's one thing I can do? And it may be going to sit on a park bench and talking to someone you've never spoken to before. What is one thing I can do that will focus me in a different direction, you know, and just simply doing that, because what you want may be right here, but your structure, your old structure keeps you there.
- [22:29]
Hoda Kotb
But a lot of people too, I think, and a lot of people write about, they have a passion for something, but they never actually pursued it for fear of failing, for fear of it wasn't practical, for fear of their parents expectations or society's expectations.
- [22:43]
Laura Day
Like, welcome to my world.
- [22:45]
Hoda Kotb
So. Exactly. So to decide, you think that small changes there will bring you to where you want?
- [22:53]
Laura Day
Yes, I think that there, you know, I wrote every book until this one. In the one and a half hours in the morning I had before my son woke up. I was a single parent. I also had clients. If you have to jump, you're not ready to do it. And things don't take a jump. But what happens is when you put your pinky toe in, you change the entire dynamic of your life. And that really is the basis of the prism. And what happens is what you encounter in the outside world changes so that the jump becomes you put a pinky toe, then you put another toe and another toe, and then you are in enough of a different situation, doing enough different things that you bump into the job offer. You bump into the safe opportunity. If it's unsafe, don't do it. That is really, for me, that's a big message. It's a big message of working with people. And the other thing is that great things don't always feel good. We're a little too stuck on feeling. You know, I. The way I met my wonderful husband is I realized that if a man felt wonderful to me, they were probably a psychopath because that's what I grew up with. And so I Asked my two best girlfriends who love me. I don't know if you know Jessica Goff. Jessica Guff used to do the second hour of gma. I met her when Demi was teaching Barbara to do a striptease for the movie Striptease. And I was in a custody battle, so I hid with the producer. But she has a wonderful marriage and a man she met at Harvard and who's really darling, Drew. And I said to her, set me up with men. And I had a bunch of conditions because I'm a little anal. Set me up with someone with people who you think are good. And I found them all very boring because they had no deep seated rage. They had no litigations going on. They had no drug habits. They were gainfully employed, which is really a pain if you're gainful employed because you have to negotiate. And it took my husband saying, listen, I'm not gonna stalk you, but I'm not gonna go away unless you tell me to. And because I was so not interested and my guard was down, it wasn't until like six months later where I thought, oh, wow, this is the most delicious human being on the planet.
- [25:25]
Hoda Kotb
Okay, that's huge, because, I mean, everyone's been in the pattern of, I like a bad boy, I like someone who's complex, and they see it as some kind of deep whining for something or trying to heal. So when you said, oh, God, there he is, he's been here all along. But how did that change your chemistry? Because chemistry is something that you have, right? Did you have chemistry with him throughout or.
- [25:50]
Laura Day
No, you know, I didn't the first time I met him. And I. I had, though, because I'm, you know, I teach this stuff. So I knew myself well enough to know that I was gonna only like my parents dressed in other forms. And that was the bad news. So I had a three date, one kiss rule. Even if. And some people didn't want three dates with me, some people thought, this woman's batshit crazy. I'm done. But. But I had a three date, one kiss rule. And I have to say that my husband was a little bit of a wolf. And when I kissed him, he leapt. And it was literally the most. It was incredible. But he was not at all what I wanted. I actually told my girlfriends, don't let me end up with him. Like, this is a purely passionate relationship. But he was, like, smart, gainfully employed. He was a former journalist. I did have a no Hollywood rule, but he was a screenwriter, which is a little different. So it was, you Know you have to. And again, this is the first ego center in the prison. You have to create a foundation and you have to have rules you stick to. And these were rules that actually I didn't make up because inside me, they would have just given me another sociopath. I have a. I had a friend now, a blessed memory. Dr. Mona Lisa Schultz, MD, PhD, neuropsychiatrist, also an intuitive who gave me. I said, what rules do I need to change my pattern? She said, you need a three day, one kiss rule.
- [27:26]
Hoda Kotb
Three day, one kiss.
- [27:27]
Laura Day
You just have to do that, you know? Once again, the answer is not. No matter how intuitive you are, no matter how smart you are. And sometimes smart is the worst thing that tricks you because you think you know, but you don't. It is so important to have a catalyst, whether it's self help or a therapist or that those honest people in groups that say, ah, no, I mean, I hate those supportive groups where it's all love, because it's not all love. And sometimes as a teacher, I know the most important thing for me is not to be in a popularity contest. If it loses an opportunity, if someone doesn't like me, if someone writes a complaint to the center I'm teaching in. Great, I've done a good job.
- [28:12]
Hoda Kotb
Tell me more. Because there are a lot of people who are in the pleasing business and they think that can also be something that's productive and great.
- [28:20]
Laura Day
You know, pleasing when it's appropriate can be productive and great. But people look for what they want to find and it keeps them stuck.
- [28:30]
Hoda Kotb
And so wait, say that again. People look for what they want to find.
- [28:34]
Laura Day
So studies show that you find what you're looking for and, and what you're looking for subconsciously, you know, which is the problem. That tricky, tricky, tricky subconscious that's running the show that we don't really know, we think we know, but no, it's down there in the murky water. So people find what they're looking for, which is why it's really important to notice what you notice and then to notice what you want to notice. Which is why I start everything out with what are your targets? What are your goals?
- [29:05]
Hoda Kotb
The targets and the goals thing is super important because if you were going to start from ground zero with somebody and you were counseling them with this book, again, it's called the Prism 7 Steps to Heal youl Past and Transform. Transform your future. So you ask targets and goals. What do you mean professionally, personally? All of them.
- [29:22]
Laura Day
All of them. So the reason to have goals, you know, Is because we need, we need a, a structure for everything that's coming at us and everything that's coming out of us. And that's what a goal really is. A goal is a commitment and it is a structure. And we spend. You know, life is overwhelming to, for just about everybody. Even if you live in a peaceful place, you know, then you get empetigo and it's overwhelming. You know, there's, there's no way to, to avoid that. But when you have a structure, you use everything to empower, to build it is contextualized and a goal is a structure.
- [30:08]
Hoda Kotb
So, okay, so a goal. Let's pretend I'll give you my three goals. My three goals would be to have a very peaceful, harmonious home with my 2 kids. I have an 8 year old and a 6 year old.
- [30:20]
Laura Day
2 kids already. Good luck with that. Then we go to the fantasy part six, ego center, you know, which is observation, intellect, intuition. But yeah, go ahead.
- [30:29]
Hoda Kotb
Okay, okay. So that's one of them. Number two, I started a business, it's called Joy 101. And it's got a lot of practices like breath work and meditation. And I really want this to have traction only because I was transformed by breathwork and different things like that. You know, I went to the Hoffman Institute. Different things.
- [30:49]
Laura Day
We are, we are pharmacies. I think it's. So you're, you're, you're speaking, what is it? Singing to the choir.
- [30:55]
Hoda Kotb
Singing to the choir. Okay, so that's a second goal. And my third is. I guess I'm in my 60s. I turned, I'll turn 61 in August. But 60s rock, man. I'd like to be the whole. Being a beginner again. Like I'm kind of into this new, this decade. I feel like all it is is new stuff that I haven't done or tr. And I guess I want to just kind of nourish that. Like I want that to be something that I really lean into.
- [31:23]
Laura Day
So your first two goals I can work with. Your third goal is one of those. I want happiness. Well, a head injury can give you happiness, you know, better psych meds can give you happiness. So I would. So the first thing I would do is say, wow, your first two goals we can totally work with because they're structures. The third goal is kind of murky and let's work on that. But you don't have to, you know, again, you can only think from an old mind. You want beginner's mind as they say. So and that is that third goal. But you so, so what? The first thing I would have you do is, is really, you know, is write down, because the mind's a messy place, those three goals. And then I would have you. I mean, I'm going to. Using the prism, you would go to those chapters and you'd make one tiny, like literally almost nonsensical tiny change, but one that doesn't resonate with you because the resonating with you already didn't work. If it resonates and you don't have what you want, it didn't work. And then I would have you document what you encounter in your external world. You know, part of how people work hard but don't work smart is it's all inside of them. It's not inside of you, it's outside of you. So I would have you make a small change. You know, home is really, that is, that is the first ego center is your right to exist, which by the way, with children also pertains to you. So a good home might bring up, for example, wait, how can I maybe demand a little more of my children in a different way that empowers them, blah, blah, blah. So you would go to that first ego center and you try one thing out, something that doesn't resonate with you, with your, with your business. You would go to the fourth ego center, which is value. And we would pick, you know, if you're doing the book alone, you would pick one thing that you think, oh, God, it was written by a psychic. If we were working together, I mean, I'm a precognitive. So if we were working together, the fourth ego center is not about love, it's about value. Because love is value. There's a lot of I love you without someone imparting value. People say, how, how do I know this relationship is good? Intuitively? I'm like, you don't. Are you eating better? Are you sleeping better? Are you working better? Is your health better? Are you managing your weight better? Are your friendships better? Then it's a good relationship.
- [34:01]
Hoda Kotb
That's interesting.
- [34:02]
Laura Day
I mean, it's your. I really think evidence based is so important. People hear intuition and they start finding Penny's head. Heads up. That's not what intuition is. Is waking up and knowing the market's going to crash and knowing what you need to do about it. That's safe, just in case you're wrong. You know, intuition is data. And when we magicalize things like all these words like empowerment and embodiment and they're wonderful, or manifestation, what do they mean?
- [34:35]
Hoda Kotb
What do they mean right?
- [34:36]
Laura Day
I mean manifestation. You make something happen. You put water in an ice cube tray and you put it in your freezer. You've manifested an ice cube. So it really is what, what is the dynamic you need to make this happen.
- [34:47]
Hoda Kotb
I like what you said, which really resonated with me, which is you said, like, when other parts of your life are going well, you ask is your relationship any good? And then you ask about the rest of your life. Will you tell me more about that? I feel like that lands.
- [35:01]
Laura Day
You're a system living in a system. The world is a system. A building is a system. It has a foundation, it has a structure, it has floors, it has a roof. It has to respond to the system of the environment. Which means that if you think that you can be in a bad relationship, and by bad I mean it disenables you, disempowers you to thrive in other areas of your life and still be healthy, you're absolutely wrong. You're in a system now. It doesn't mean that everything goes right. Believe me. I always have one OCD thing that I'm stressing over at any given time, at least one. It depends how bored I am. But the way to know that you're on the right track is that the world meets you. So what is going wrong? I'm just going to take your business and I'm going to be very vague. People want me to read on air and then when I actually do it, they cut it out of the tape because it's revealing. But I'm going to take a pretend thing of your business so you know you're encountering lower than usual X. It's not a sign, it is an instruction. It's a lesson plan. And what do you have to do? And you're, you know, obviously you don't have that answer or you wouldn't have encountered that problem. So who does? You know, who's done that successfully and generously.
- [36:33]
Hoda Kotb
More ahead with Laura Day. Stay with us.
- [36:43]
Laura Day
This season everyone deserves a little more. And Mazda delivers with the extended driving.
- [36:48]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
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- [36:51]
Laura Day
Standard all wheel drive in every Mazda.
- [36:54]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
CUV including the CX5 and room to.
- [36:56]
Laura Day
Bring everyone with three row seating in the CX90. Find more reasons to celebrate the season at the Mazda Mortem movie sales event.
- [37:04]
Drew Ski
Every Mazda CUV offers you an elevated driving experience and refined performance. Discover it at your local Mazda dealer today.
- [37:14]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
Guys, thanks for helping me carry my Christmas tree.
- [37:16]
Drew Ski
Zoe, this thing weighs a ton. Drew Ski, lift with your legs, man.
- [37:19]
Laura Day
Santa.
- [37:20]
Drew Ski
Santa, did you get my letter? He's talking to you britches.
- [37:22]
Laura Day
I'm not.
- [37:24]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
Of course he did.
- [37:25]
Laura Day
Right, Santa, you know my elf Drew Ski here. He handles the nice list.
- [37:29]
Drew Ski
And elf, I'm six three. What everyone wants is iPhone 17 and at T mobile you can get it on them. That center stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. Right Mrs. Claus?
- [37:38]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
I'm Mrs. Claus much younger sister. And AT T mobile there's no trade in needed when you switch. So you can keep your old phone.
- [37:45]
Laura Day
Or give it as a gift.
- [37:46]
Mrs. Claus's Sister
And the best part, you can make the switch to T mobile from from your phone in just 15 minutes.
- [37:50]
Drew Ski
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- [38:13]
Hoda Kotb
Visit t mobile.comScore Holiday gifts everyone wants.
- [38:16]
Laura Day
For way less at your Nordstrom rack store.
- [38:19]
Hoda Kotb
Save on Ugg, Nike, Rag and Bone, Vince Frame, Kurt Geiger London and more. Because there's always something new. I'm giving all the gifts this year with that extra 5% off when I use my Nordstrom credit card.
- [38:31]
Laura Day
Santa who join the Nordy club at.
- [38:33]
Hoda Kotb
Nordstrom rack to unlock our best deals.
- [38:36]
Laura Day
It's easy. Big gifts, big perks.
- [38:39]
Hoda Kotb
That's why you rack. There are a lot of people who ask the question about they want abundance. I think they want not to worry about finances. They want that to be a thing. Obviously it's important, but how would you go about that?
- [38:56]
Laura Day
Well, you know, because we are each individuals. It really depends where your individual block is. And I would start by not using the airy term of abundance. Do you is what you want a windfall is what you want to really be engaged in something that gives you respect, friends and finances in the world that you love doing. And what is abundance for you? I remember when I made my first $3 million in one pop. It was 1990 and I got an email for somebody who wanted abundance and for them that was $50,000. So you know, and for some people abundance is having a chicken farm. And for some people abundance is living in a community, a commune that supports them. So, you know, it's very important with all of these things to find the aha. How will I know when I've gotten it now? It's always different than what you think because you're thinking from an old paradigm. But to have a sense of that. What is the aha? Is the aha that I get a contract for something I want to do that I can do in my free time? Is the aha that I get a huge raise, you know, what is the aha? What is the proof in the world? But it starts with making a term something that's real. What is it you want? You know, and I think that we are. We use these vague. I love it. I always see on my Instagram lives, I embrace abundance, and I always jump down that person's throat. Bad habit of mine. I'm like, really? You embrace. If you were embracing abundance, you would have abundance. So what is it? Because life is a contract, and I write about that in the prism. What is it that having abundance would take from you?
- [40:59]
Hoda Kotb
Take from you?
- [41:00]
Laura Day
Yes. Would it take from you your community? Would it take from you the illusion that a parent is going take care of you that you're holding out for subconsciously? There's always a trade that we make. The prism gives you simple steps, but here are some simple steps to do right now. Pick three goals. And I say three because those three will come together as one. But there are always three categories of life. I've really noticed that just in 40 years of teaching. Pick three goals, commit to them. Which means you are going to feel like, oh, my God, this emergency happened. Maybe I should switch it. No, you're one person. This is just your context. It doesn't mean you don't care about the other things in your life. It means you've committed to framing it a certain way. And commitment is everything. One foot in front of the other is the best way to get someplace. Then notice who. And what comes out of the blue for you all of a sudden. What are the offers? What are the obstacles? You know, we always think of synchronicities as good things. No, synchronicity is all of a sudden an obstacle comes up, and you need to find new tools to deal with that. That's a gift.
- [42:13]
Hoda Kotb
So some people would see the obstacle as, whoops, wrong road. There it is.
- [42:19]
Laura Day
The fact of the matter is, you're not on the right road until you've accomplished it all step by step. And again, it's so disempowering. It's good business, but it's disempowering to magicalize. So you talked about breath work. What I like about breath work is that you can measure in blood, in urine, in brain waves, in heart rate waves, and even in the coherence in a room of people. What the positive effect of breath works work is you also know the contraindications to look for and how to deal with them. Like it is a structure that is functional. And once I'm sure you've noticed in your own breath work that it keeps you from making mistakes that would require cleanup and time wasters. You know, time wasters is not lying down and having a wonderful time. Like my favorite thing is just kind of being in my husband's arms for five minutes. It's not, that's not a time waster. It changes my entire physiological anatomy. Time wasters are when we create difficulty for ourselves or when we allow new damage to occur. And there's always a trade off.
- [43:36]
Hoda Kotb
What are time wasters? Give me some examples of time wasters.
- [43:39]
Laura Day
Time wasters is that person who promised to help you, you who never really does and you keep on chasing it. Time wasters are getting into arguments about things you don't care about. Like I'm. Nobody really lets me drive, but I learned to drive late. But when I do drive and I am about to get furious at someone who didn't put on their turn signal because I'm a real rule follower, I'm like, do I really want to waste my time on that? Like, hello. Time wasters are obsessions. You know when you, when you're upset about something, you're not going to find the answer by being upset about it. Do your dishes, take a run, pet your dog. Time wasters is not volunteering. That gives you a lot of great stuff. And if you take blood and urine and look at brain waves while you're doing, you'll see, wow, it actually changes your reality. So it's really important to make yourself precious. And I think the whole thing I hate about it's all love is. Number one job is you. And you know, your ego, your I is a precious thing. It is the only thing you have is you to create in the world to create for others. But you have to create for you first or the foundation of what you're doing is faulty.
- [45:04]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, that's big. We talked about your trauma early in life and everyone who's listening has their own and that either they're carrying it around, maybe they haven't ever talked about it, maybe they will one day, who knows? But what do you do with that? If you're walking around and you've never spoken out loud, something horrible, terrible, or maybe you have and you still kind of are defined by it a little bit, how do you get out of that to live a life? We have a lot of questions here that are about I've had it rough.
- [45:32]
Laura Day
Research shows that revisiting trauma re traumatizes. And the trauma is not your original trauma. The trauma are the ways you re traumatize yourself. And so.
- [45:43]
Hoda Kotb
So you mean talking about it re traumatizes?
- [45:46]
Laura Day
Not always. It depends the degree of support. It depends the moment. It depends the moment in your life. But. But people look for their trauma and that's a big mistake because. And you know, my students are sick of hearing this because your trauma is kind of your excuse for not loving yourself, for not being good enough, for not trying something, for not succeeding. When you have a goal and you move toward it, the first guest at that party is going to be the damage from that's left from trauma. And instead of trying to figure out did it happen, didn't it happen, did it do this? Am I broken? Blah blah blah, you become solution oriented. Now, that doesn't mean you're not allowed to feel it, you're not allowed to talk about it, but you actually don't have to. Everyone metabolizes differently. If my husband and I eat the same meal, he gains five pounds, I lose five pounds. Everybody metabolizes differently. So it's again, the way to not have your trauma define you is to accept you've been traumatized. And we go to the past in that childlike hope for which I have deep compassion. I mean, I'm the queen of Wooda Shoulda Coulda. But we go to the past in the hope that our healing is there and it's not. Your healing is in creating what you want in the moment. And that really you are equipped to do it again. Your world is here. Teeny change. It's a whole different world. What you want is right beside you. Give power to the things that allow you to do what you want to do. You need to be the hero of your own story.
- [47:35]
Hoda Kotb
Give power.
- [47:35]
Laura Day
And if your villain is the biggest character, then that story is not going to have a happy ending. Now, that doesn't mean that that villain at one time wasn't. But don't keep feeding the monster. What do you do?
- [47:49]
Hoda Kotb
I mean, a lot of. Are you an advocate of therapy? Do you think that that's a good thing?
- [47:53]
Laura Day
Sometimes I think the most powerful thing are dissonant communities, Communities of not like minded people who come together to accomplish a common goal.
- [48:08]
Hoda Kotb
Put that in practical sense. Like what does that mean? What's that look like?
- [48:11]
Laura Day
I have a friend who does these groups that are kind of very esoteric, love and lightness. And I go into his groups and I bite my tongue really hard and I do his process. And the people I meet often compliment or complain about me in ways that change me in such positive ways that I could never have changed myself. It's not easy. And there is the narrator here that's saying, oh my God. Really? Oh my God, you're saying that oh my God, aren't you? You have chest hair. How could you believe that? But, but the part of me that does engage is changed in ways that I can't change. In a room of I'm fine. In a room of traders, in a room of scientists, I'm fine. In a room of those people, I'm fine. You know, if you're somewhere on the spectrum, I'm fine with you. But you know, if you're ooey, gooey, emo, emotional, my, the worst part of me comes out.
- [49:27]
Hoda Kotb
So what do you learn from that? Like, what do you learn from being around those guys?
- [49:31]
Laura Day
I learned sometimes that I've hidden a pain that's not letting me connect. I learned that I'm softer than I think because I like to think of myself as a, you know, direct, straight talking, hard ass. But I, I learn that there's a softness. And by the way, I learn and I know, oh my God, this sounds so emo that I'm not taking care of it. I learn that my boundaries are so fake because I end up falling in love with these people who are all wearing Buddhas as earrings. And it changes the way I walk out of that room. It changes the way I deal with my clients. It changes the way I deal with my family. It changes what I put in my mouth. It changes everything. It changes the color I wear the next day and that changes the way the world responds to me. And again, real change I really don't think is from this awareness of self. Real change is by doing something differently. Having pieces of the world encounter you and then rising to meet them.
- [50:31]
Hoda Kotb
I like the small changes because as I look at all the questions that have been submitted, it's how do I find peace when I can't control the outcome? There's a lot of, I think the.
- [50:41]
Laura Day
World, life is overwhelming.
- [50:42]
Hoda Kotb
Well, yeah. And now the world seems super, super tumultuous. And most people don't even know what they think.
- [50:47]
Laura Day
The world was always tumultuous for most of the inhabitants of this planet. Yes, we see more of, we all see it now because of the way media is. But the reality is we are built to survive and to thrive. And again, it is the that first ego center of no new damage. How do we find our filter? How do we discipline? And then how do we, what, what are the boundaries? And this goes for people, for businesses. But if you're overwhelmed, what I really suggest you do is pare it down. Maybe you don't even, don't have to shower every day. You know, what can you, what can you get rid of? Like if you're overwhelmed, it needs to all be about you, but it's also about accepting reality. You know, I have to say that in my job where, you know, billion dollar companies come to me to see the future, to make things safe, I am fully aware because you have to be realistic. I'm fully aware we live in an unpredictable world, even for someone who can predict well. And so we need those three wonderful ego qualities. We need strength because we need to be able to be stronger than what comes at us when we're not. We need resilience and we find those things by the way with realizing that yes, we were traumatized and yes, we're still here. So there's something, there's some magic sauce in there.
- [52:30]
Hoda Kotb
You're so fascinating because when I first read about, you know, you being an intuitive and I was familiar with your books, the all this sciency practical, the fact that you feel more comfortable in a room of scientists and business people than you would in front of one of those spa kind of self help gatherings to me is just fascinating. It's just like another fascinating thing about you.
- [52:53]
Laura Day
Well, you know, right back at you. I mean, you are such a great example of the prism because you have recreated yourself in so many powerful ways, so many powerful times, and you're doing it again. And I want to leave you a message, a you're good enough. And then the opposite is also true, which is you don't have to always, you have to always do right by yourself, but you don't always have to love yourself. Sometimes it's time to make an apology. Sometimes it's time to say, gee, I wouldn't have wanted to meet that version of me in a dark alley. And I'm working on it, you know, it's okay to be a work in progress. And again, back to reality. We're all a work in progress. There are things about myself that I am deeply ashamed of. And I know your next question is going to be what? Don't you dare.
- [53:47]
Drew Ski
I would never.
- [53:49]
Laura Day
But, you know, I mean, the fact of the matter is, you're enough. And if you don't like what's there, you can be something else right now. And it's really important that we. You know, if I did everything I'm supposed to do for 20 minutes a day to be a whole human being, I would have no day. I'd have to give up basic hygiene. One of the things that I really structured the prism to do, and it was how it was given to me as a child, Although at the time, I didn't realize it was to be able to do something as you do your daily life. You know, people make all these altars and they have these rituals. And yes, there's a time for killing a chicken in the full moon and dancing in the blood with your friends, but everything is a ritual, everything you do. And so look at the meaning. You know, people are eating in a punishing way. Everyone's drinking green stuff. You know, eating should nourish you. What are you telling yourself? What is the ritual and do you want to change it? What is that enabling you to do? Everything's an altar. So my messy desk is an altar to my creativity. Whereas for my husband, his messy desk is. Things are out of control. You know, just a simple awareness as you move through your day of empowering things again. Be the hero of your own story and make your own. Make your own nirvana. And that really, that changes you. Change doesn't take doing dramatic things. And it is lovely to give yourself something like, hey, I didn't get an invitation to that retreat. It is lovely to give yourself what I call a time out of time. A time where you say, you know what? I'm going to leave my I, my prism, my ego here, and I'm going to become part of something for a couple days. Let it carry me, because it softens. It's why people who've never been in love go on vacation and suddenly fall in love. Because what has kept their habits in place? Their routine is gone. They're someplace else.
- [56:02]
Hoda Kotb
So take a couple days and do what?
- [56:06]
Laura Day
Take a couple days and do something that's not punishing. You know, do something good. Good for you. I mean, I, for example, hate exercise, but I make exercise into. I find things that. That I love. So I have this, like, super, super adorable Pilates trainer who I love to gossip with. Like, the exercise. Yeah, she's going to put me. I mean, she was a gymnast, so, you know, she's a sadist, but she's going to put me through the drill. But she also knows that she's got to have some. Some. Some juicy stuff or I'm going to start complaining. You know, find ways your food. There's gotta be something that you can eat that you don't choke on or doesn't come in a powder that you reconstitute that is both healthy and that you like. And if you don't like it, don't put it in your mouth.
- [57:00]
Hoda Kotb
I love all the practical stuff and I want everyone to get this book. It's called the Seven Steps to Heal youl Past and Transform youm Future. It's by Laura Day. Laura is a New York Times bestselling author. Many times over. This book right here is practical. Get your pen and pencil out, burn your highlighter through like, so you can remember, dog ear it. Like, that's the kind of book you want. Finally, Laura, this podcast is called Making Space. So if you do have a day, Laura, that's for you. Like, you could wake up and do anything. No one's going to knock on your door, no one's going to bug, no one's going to ask anything of you. And you have from the time you open your eyes till you close them. How would you.
- [57:38]
Laura Day
That's my idea of a nightmare.
- [57:39]
Hoda Kotb
But what's messed up? How would you fill that day? That's your question?
- [57:44]
Laura Day
I would find someone who has a need, who has a question, who has a project, who has something for me to edit or work on, who has a business that needs some insight. Oh, my God. Left alone in a room with my brain, I would eat myself. That would be terrible. My every day is that day. And yes, there are some people and some events that I wish wouldn't happen, but my every day is that day. We used to go. I'm gonna say this really quickly, cause I'm sure we're out of time, but we used to go on this very she expensive vac to Sorrento at this gorgeous, ridiculously expensive hotel with a bunch of other screenwriters and producers and directors. And they'd go out on the boat every day. I would stay in my room and work. I would meet them for dinner. But that was my idea of purgatory. Doing nothing and talking about nothing in the sun with early alcohol, on a boat with no comfortable seating. Why would I do that when I could be solving people's business questions and creating new lives and even like talking to the local green grocer about how to get people to buy the non organic peppers. I mean, that is what I love. And it's really important that your life is what you love. That doesn't mean that there's not gonna be that moment of cloud here or that obsessive thought there or things that happen that you have to deal with. But you know what? That's what your goals are for. Contextualize it. Make it part of what you're doing. Not because, you know, we should get lemons and make lemonade, but because if you don't make lemonade, then you're stuck with lemons.
- [59:32]
Hoda Kotb
Laura Day. The best. The best. Everybody get her book. It's called the Seven Steps to Heal youl Past and Transform youm.
- [59:38]
Laura Day
Can I hold it up? Yes, you can.
- [59:40]
Hoda Kotb
And you know what else I'm gonna do?
- [59:41]
Laura Day
It's a very girly cover, but I love it.
- [59:43]
Hoda Kotb
I'm gonna hold it up too.
- [59:45]
Laura Day
Two shot.
- [59:46]
Hoda Kotb
All right, Laura, thank you so much.
- [59:48]
Laura Day
Thank you. Hey, guys.
- [59:55]
Hoda Kotb
Thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and.
- [59:59]
Laura Day
I hope that you do, please give.
- [60:01]
Hoda Kotb
Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts.
- [60:06]
Laura Day
And make sure you tell your friends.
- [60:07]
Hoda Kotb
Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Katvi is produced by Alison Burke and Mitch Rissmiller, along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineers are Matt Tierney and Joe Plord. Original music by John Estes. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Least is the executive vice president of Today and Lifestyle.
- [60:47]
Laura Day
This is an Etsy holiday ad, but you won't hear any sleigh bells or classic carols. Instead, you'll hear something original. The sound of an Etsy holiday, which sounds like this. Now that's special.
- [61:05]
Hoda Kotb
Want to hear it again?
- [61:07]
Laura Day
Get original and affordable gifts from small shops on Etsy. For gifts that say I get, you shop Etsy.