Mel Robbins on The Self You Meet When Everything Is at Stake

Summary

Podcast Summary: Making Space with Hoda Kotb

Episode: Mel Robbins on The Self You Meet When Everything Is at Stake
Date: January 7, 2026
Host: Hoda Kotb
Guest: Mel Robbins

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Hoda Kotb sits down with Mel Robbins, the acclaimed motivational speaker and bestselling author, to explore resilience, personal transformation, and the tools Mel developed through profound hardship. The conversation dives into the moments that propelled Mel from a state of rock bottom—struggling with debt, anxiety, and shame—to becoming a globally influential voice. Mel shares candid stories about her upbringing, marriage, motherhood, and the origins of her groundbreaking self-help methods, demonstrating that real change stems from how we show up during life’s most challenging times.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction and Mel’s Drive (03:07–04:16)

• Immediate Bravery and Curiosity: Mel attributes her relentless motivation to deep curiosity and the joy of problem-solving.
  • “I love the satisfaction that I get of just looking at a problem and talking to people that are smarter than me...it keeps me feeling young and useful.” (03:29, Mel Robbins)
• Purpose as Motivation: Mel emphasizes the importance of having something—anything—to get out of bed for, especially during lost periods.

Childhood, Family Influence, and Early Strategies (04:16–11:48)

• Leadership as a Coping Tool: Growing up with dyslexia and ADHD, Mel learned to take charge (such as being class president or team picker) as a survival strategy, not due to ego.
  • “Raising your hand first is a strategy...so you don't get called on later when you're not paying attention.” (04:23, Mel Robbins)
• Influence of Her Mother: Mel recalls her mother’s entrepreneurial spirit and bold defiance of a banker’s sexism when opening a retail store in the 1980s.
  • “She got up, she withdrew the accounts. She went to a different [bank] and got her loan. And so my mom just boss, you know, without like a...just like, no problem.” (11:41, Mel Robbins)
  • “There's a million different ways to get something done.” (11:49, Mel Robbins)
• Striving for Success: Mel shares, “I wanted to” be successful, inspired by her mother's trailblazing, rather than feeling pressured.

Adversity, Rock Bottom, and The Five Second Rule (18:14–34:32)

• Personal Downfall: Mel details the collapse triggered by a failed pizza restaurant, which left her family in $800,000 debt, unemployed, and mired in shame.
  • “Chris had been laid off, Hoda, seven times in the first nine years of our marriage...” (18:36, Mel Robbins)
• Grappling with Despair: Mel began drinking heavily. Unmotivated and paralyzed, she was unable to muster willpower to fix her situation.
  • “I knew what I should do. But I could not organize the will or the discipline or the motivation to make myself look for a job…or make myself get up to get these kids on the bus.” (21:37, Mel Robbins)
  • “Most of us are not positively motivated to do the thing that's hard...You finally get to the point where you're like, I am so sick of my own [stuff] that I'm doing something.” (22:55, Mel Robbins)
• Turning Point — The Power of Action:
  • “Action relieves anxiety. Action is what changes your mood. The mistake that we make is you think you need the confidence or the motivation to do the thing. And don't discount the importance of desperation.” (32:39, Mel Robbins)
• Birth of The Five Second Rule: Mel describes the very morning her signature self-help tool was born.
  • “It was Tuesday morning in February 2008. That’s the morning that changed my life. You’re one decision away from a different life.” (33:32, Mel Robbins)
  • She explains how counting 5–4–3–2–1 got her out of bed, enabled her to act kindly to her husband, and finally pick up the phone to ask for help.

Family Crisis & The Power of Presence (24:44–29:19)

• Medical Crisis: Mel recounts her son Oakley’s near-fatal illness as a newborn, her inability to remember details due to “survival mode,” and the serendipitous chain of medical help—fed by her insistence and a series of “signs”—that ultimately saved her child.
  • “I do not know what’s wrong with him, but something is terribly wrong. You need to get him right now to [the hospital].” (26:23, Dr. Mark, as quoted by Mel Robbins)
  • She connects these experiences to a faith in “something larger, not in an egoic sense. I feel connected to something greater than all of us.” (30:12, Mel Robbins)

Divine Timing, Oprah, and Staying Present (30:42–39:33)

• Oprah’s Endorsement: Mel shares the story of being invited unexpectedly to do an episode with Oprah, which then turned into a full episode about her book after Oprah personally read it.
  • “To see someone that you admire really take your work seriously and admire you back, that’s so big. Nothing like that could have ever been orchestrated unless it was divinely ordered.” (31:46–32:30, Mel Robbins)
• Staying Present and Gratitude: Mel reflects on finding meaning—“Your job is to sit on the plane and to hold your cup of tea and to occasionally look out the window...But don’t worry about how fast the plane is going or where it’s headed. That’s already been taken care of." (41:08, paraphrased from therapist via Mel Robbins)
• Mission Over Metrics: She credits her late-in-life success to prioritizing relationships, authenticity, and helping others, rather than chasing status.

Health, Protein, and Solving Problems (36:14–38:28)

• Wellness Focus: Mel discusses learning about women’s protein deficiencies, then collaborating on a high-protein supplement product, showing her problem-solving approach in both personal and business spheres.
  • Shares a tip: _"You know it's a high impact protein if you look at the grams of protein…now compare it to calories." (38:01, Mel Robbins)
• Empowering Listeners: “The point is, whether you try this or not, I just love solving problems and giving people and myself information that you deserve to have.” (38:28, Mel Robbins)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You’re one decision away from a different life.” (33:37, Mel Robbins)
• "There's a million different ways to get something done." (11:49, Mel Robbins)
• "Most of us are not positively motivated to do the thing that's hard...You finally get to the point where you're like, I am so sick of my own [stuff] that I'm doing something." (22:55, Mel Robbins)
• “Action relieves anxiety. Action is what changes your mood.” (32:39, Mel Robbins)
• "I feel connected to something greater than all of us." (30:12, Mel Robbins)
• “Your job is to sit on the plane and to hold your cup of tea and to occasionally look out the window…But don’t worry about how fast the plane is going or where it’s headed.” (41:08, Mel Robbins via her therapist)
• “If you start taking actions every day that align with the kind of person you want to be or the way you want to feel, over time, you become that person.” (32:55, Mel Robbins)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:07 – Mel’s motivation and curiosity
• 04:16 – Childhood leadership and coping skills
• 10:08 – Mother’s entrepreneurship and breaking barriers
• 18:14–34:32 – Hitting rock bottom, mental health, crisis, and the genesis of The Five Second Rule
• 24:44–29:19 – Family medical emergency and the role of faith, intuition, and crisis management
• 31:40 – Oprah and divine timing
• 32:39–34:32 – Action as the antidote to anxiety, the birth of a new life chapter
• 36:14–38:28 – Protein, wellness, and solving practical problems
• 39:05–42:31 – Staying grounded through success and honoring the greater mission

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Tone & Feel

The episode is candid, warm, and fiercely honest—reflecting both Mel Robbins’ pragmatic, science-informed approach and Hoda Kotb’s empathetic interviewing style. Listeners are encouraged to examine their lives, recognize the power of small actions, and embrace both vulnerability and agency amidst adversity.

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This summary captures the rich tapestry of Mel Robbins’ journey—from vulnerability and failure to resilience and success—offering both insight and practical encouragement for anyone navigating their own pivotal moments.

Transcript

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[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

There are moments in life when the future feels impossible and you can't imagine a way forward. Well, Mel Robbins knows that place intimately and she also knows what it takes to rise from it. Today, Mel Robbins is one of the most influential voices on the planet, a number one New York Times bestselling author whose books have been translated into more than 50 languages, a golden Globe nominated podcast host with millions of listeners each week, and a digital force with more than 40 million followers. Her most recent book, the Let them theory, sold 7 million copies 9 months. Time magazine calls her work a reason millions of people believe in themselves. But over the years, Mel has traversed the ups and downs that life can throw us. She grew up struggling with anxiety, ADHD and dyslexia, calling her college years some of the hardest of her life. As a 41 year old mother of three, she found herself lying in bed, deep in debt, struggling with alcohol, anxiety and shame, and whispering to herself that nobody was coming. From that rock bottom came a series of simple tools that would change her life and then change the lives of millions. The five second rule the high five Habit. The Let them Theory. Practical acts of courage Born in the most quiet, challenging moments of her life, Mel's perspective is a rare mix of science, honesty and lived experience. She's walked through fear, failure, a canceled talk show, hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and the long road back to herself. Through it all, she has become a person who reminds us that change is possible not because life gets easier, but because we learn how to show up for it differently. In our conversation, Mel opens up about the deepest parts of her story, how she found her way out of a life that felt impossible, and how we can kickstart our days in the best possible way. She reminds us that even the smallest kinds of action can pull us toward a life we're proud to live. I'm Hoda Kotfi and this Is my podcast making space? Look at you. I mean, first of all, you've just.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're just coming off of a Golden Globe nomination. We're gonna find the answer to that soon.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

What is the thing that propels, motivates, pushes? Because quite frankly, you could sit back, you could do some podcast, your great podcast. You could do anything. Why the pushing?

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, it's a great question. I think I'm just intellectually curious.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, that's good.

[Mel Robbins]

I love solving problems. I love the satisfaction that I get of just looking at a problem and talking to people that are smarter than me. You're going through this right now as you're building your company and you're learning all the tech. I think it's exhilarating to be our age and leaning into AI and leaning into, oh, how do you monetize YouTube? And, you know, what is Spotify doing versus Apple doing? And so it keeps me feeling young and useful. And I think you need something to get out of bed for. You do. And it doesn't have to be something that makes you money, but those moments in life where I've felt really lost, I didn't have something that I was excited to be working on.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, that's it. So were you a leader when you were a kid? Were you a leader in high school?

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Were you captain?

[Mel Robbins]

I was president of the school, of course, and president of class. But I think part of it, too, if you look at what a lot of people say about people that are dyslexic and adhd, is you develop strategies to cope. So raising your hand first is a strategy to be able to blurt something out so you don't get called on later when you're not paying attention. Picking the teams on the playground is a way to ensure that you're not the one who gets picked less. So I think it wasn't this sense. Like, if I dove deep into the psychology, it wasn't this, like, I'm better than everybody. No, it was like, oh, you know, I. Better than.

[Hoda Kotb]

What was your senior superlative? Did they give those in your school, like, best?

[Mel Robbins]

I think it was most likely to be famous. I think it might have been.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, that sounds about right, I think.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, and teacher. Fat teacher.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You were.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, I love teachers. Oh, I was like, best. Especially the nerdy classes. I could be the queen of the island of misfit toys. Really? Like, one of the things that I'm most nervous about with the Golden Globes is I've never been on a red carpet ever.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my God.

[Mel Robbins]

I don't know what to wear. I don't feel like I don't ever wear.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You're like, what am I gonna do there things.

[Mel Robbins]

And I need my glasses. Like, I would feel I would not be able to see anybody. I can't get contacts in and out to save my life. I got man hands, Dumbo fingers. I just can't get those things out of my eyeballs. And so I'm like, I'm gonna. I'd look like an idiot. I would love to wear a ball gown, but I would look like a complete idiot.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So what are we wearing?

[Mel Robbins]

I don't know.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, good.

[Mel Robbins]

When this drops, I'm going to be in a dressing room still trying to try things on. I'm having flashbacks to being at the Natick Mall at Nordstrom's with my daughter as I'm screaming about a body con dress that she's not going to wear to prom. And she's having a meltdown, Hoda, because there is a Facebook group where all the seniors claimed every dress known to man. And now she, as a junior, is not allowed to buy a dress. And I'm pissed off at the world.

[Hoda Kotb]

No kidding.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. But now it's me. Now it's me. As everybody around me is like, that looks beautiful. I'm like, I look terrible. I look like a Blanche sausage. Oh, my God.

[Hoda Kotb]

One question I ask everybody, which always elicits an interesting answer. So I'm gonna ask you too.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So when you were young, little girl.

[Hoda Kotb]

And you're right now, you're imagining yourself standing in your childhood bedroom. You're looking around at the walls and the posters and the things you may have put up on the walls. What's on the bookshelves, if anything, toys, sheets, what did you have anything special?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Did your mom.

[Hoda Kotb]

So open your eyes and describe what that looks like?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, you know what's hard is that I'm imagining the way. The beautiful way my mom is decorated.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes. So your mom decorated the bedroom now. Oh, now.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And I'm trying to flash back and go back in time 45 years and remember what it was like. Because right now it's like painted by my mom's really good friend, Shout Out Chuck. He's like a. What's it called? Trump Lopez. What's that type of painting where there's like flowers everywhere and two twin beds. But I had a brother, we shared a bedroom for a very long time until we moved to Michigan and my parents were able to finally be able to buy their own house. I believe if I'M remembering correctly that it was white wallpaper. Remember Laura Ashley?

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, yeah, of course.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh yeah. Back then we had like five options, right?

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[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, that was it. So it was the lance plaid nightgown with the ruffles up to your neck. Some sort of chastity nightgown situation. Very cute. And it was the white wallpaper with the tiny little rosebud like, you know that. You know what print I'm talking about?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yes, of course.

[Mel Robbins]

And I had the white like kind of thing. I remember an arch. And I. Oh God. I collected what? I could be a really good hoarder because I collected everything I collected. Do you remember those? There were these plastic horses that you could get different. I didn't even ride a horse.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You just collected them.

[Mel Robbins]

I own a horse. I don't know why I had these plastic horses in my bedroom, but I had those. I had the Laura Ashley matching comforter. Thank you, mom, for that. We probably went to Jacobson's in Grand Rapids, Michigan to buy it. That's what I remember most. But I do remember outside my window there was a red bud tree. And every spring, that tree, the red bud, if you don't know a redbud tree, it loses its leaves in the winter. But in the spring before the leaves come, it gets these micro tiny little pink blossoms that go up the bark in the branches. And so it looks like this pink colored tree, like almost like a tree in winter that has Christmas lights on it, only it's pink. And then the petals all drop and they create this like circle of pink underneath. And I would lay in bed and look at that tree and just think about how beautiful it was. And to this day, red buds are my favorite kind of tree.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, I love it.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So you were class present.

[Hoda Kotb]

So everyone and you know, probably most likely to succeed and all these kind of things.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So it was a given probably to.

[Hoda Kotb]

You that I have to. I'm gonna be successful or did you think you had to?

[Mel Robbins]

I think I wanted to.

[Hoda Kotb]

You wanted to?

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, I think I wanted to. My mom opened a retail store and she was such a badass. I would go, we have this tiny town. She and her friend decided to go to the Chicago Gift Show. And she and Susie go there. They discover flavored coffee. She brings flavored coffee. In the early 80s, this was not a thing.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right before anyone did that before.

[Mel Robbins]

This is like before Williams Sonoma before. And my mom had always been. She grew up on a huge farm. She brings back flavored coffee and she decides, I'm going to open a retail store. And I am going to sell cookware, and I am gonna sell flavored coffee, and I am bringing this to our small town. And, by God, she and Susie did. It was called the pantry. And I would go in there and look around at all the la Cruset pans and all of the things she sold and the flavored. She'd come home every day after work, Hoda, smelling like hazelnut and vanilla and caramel and pumpkin. And I just thought that store was the coolest thing in the world. Oh, and there's a great story. So when they were going to get a loan, she and Susie go to the bank where we were banking, and they sit down with the banker that they've known for years, so this would have been early 80s. And they say, we want to start this retail store. We've gone to the Chicago gift store. We need $10,000. And the guy said, great, let me call your husbands.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my God.

[Mel Robbins]

Now, my mother, I love this woman. She stood, she said, why? And he said, well, we need to get them to co sign. She said, well, I'm a joint account holder. Susie's like, so am I. And we have our mortgage here, and I own the house as well with my husband. And he's like, I'm sorry, it's just bank policy. She got up, she withdrew the accounts. She went to a different.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my God.

[Mel Robbins]

And got her loan. And so my mom just boss, you know, without like a. Just like, no problem.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Bye. See you later.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, see you later. And I just learned there's a million different ways to get something done.

[Hoda Kotb]

And also to watch this woman stand up and say, oh, no, we're not standing for that. Which explains a lot about you.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. Like, there's a different way to solve. You may be in a situation where things are unfair, or you've made a lot of mistakes, or the deck feels like it's stacked against you. And with the power of your brain and with the movement of your feet and with the gift of time, you can change things for the better. You can find a different way. And we didn't even have the tools back then, like AI, to go and use as a partner in being able to brainstorm. And so in today's world, you have this ability in your body with your brain and your ability to take action, to partner with all the different tech and things that are out there, that are at your finger. Podcasts you can listen to, to think of different ways to attack a problem.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So you go through.

[Hoda Kotb]

You do law school you were a public defender. You do all that stuff. You're married. Like, life is good. I read your marriage announcement. It was so. Wait, hold on.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I love it.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, you wanna hear how that happened?

[Hoda Kotb]

Tell me.

[Mel Robbins]

Okay. It happened. Like every. Everything that happens in my life is big. Has a crazy, just normal story to it. So Christopher and I were here in New York City. We had made a bunch of new friends. One of them happened to be going through a divorce. And she was like a big floral designer. And she was a couple years older than us. And when we got engaged, she said to us, hey, do you mind if I pitch you to the New York Times? Because I'm starting a new business in the middle of this divorce, and if I can get them to bite on this story, then it would be great publicity for us. And I'm like, sure. I don't know why they'd write about us, but that sounds okay. So little do I know, she knows Lois Brady at the New York Times because she was married to a guy and they had a big floral business. I didn't know in that life, I just knew her as Denise. Hi, Denise. And so all of a sudden, Denise calls us and says, okay, you're not gonna believe this. Lois wants to meet you. And I was like, she does? She's like, yes. Just make sure you tell her I'm doing the wedding. And I said, okay. And her gift to us, check this out. Was to order all the flowers wholesale.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, geez.

[Mel Robbins]

And then ship them to Michigan. And then my mom and I went to garage sales and bought all of these old containers. Like, I'm getting choked up just thinking about this. And all of her friends and my friends got together the day before the wed in our basement. And we made our flower arrangements with the wholesale flowers that Denise shipped. So you know when your friend is showing up for you like that? I am turning on the juice when I'm gonna sit down with Lois Brady. So Lois shows up at our apartment. We chat, chat, chat, chat, chat. Never hear from her again.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, that's it. You're like, goodbye.

[Mel Robbins]

Four months later, I'm walking up the aisle at my own wedding at my parents house. There's Lois Brady. I didn't even know she was coming.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I love it, I love it, I love it.

[Mel Robbins]

I had no idea this was going to be the feature.

[Hoda Kotb]

This is so crazy.

[Mel Robbins]

Labor Day weekend.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Isn't it funny?

[Mel Robbins]

Your life 19. Like, when did I get 96? I mean, that's how that happened. And so most people will look at that and Be like, oh, she must be some so and so.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You're like, no, no.

[Mel Robbins]

I get in the back door. I know the bouncer or the cook or the dishwasher working at the club, they're the one opening up the door for me. I kind of feel like that with the Golden Globes. Somehow we snuck in.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

Hi, guys. We made it.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

But so much of your life is this way. I'm just gonna read what you said.

[Hoda Kotb]

About Chris, which I love.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

One of my vows to Chris is that I'm absolutely committed to never knowing.

[Hoda Kotb]

Exactly who he is. The bride said, I don't wanna ever.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Get to a point where I think.

[Hoda Kotb]

I know what he's thinking.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, God.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm so much more interested in constantly discovering new things.

[Mel Robbins]

That's very naive, honestly. I think you want to know who you're marrying. No, I.

[Hoda Kotb]

But I get that sentiment. It's kind of cute.

[Mel Robbins]

It's actually really cute. And if I think about the fact that we've been together now, we'll be married 30 years this year.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Mel Robbins]

I do feel like you go through chapters in every relationship and holding space for both knowing who you married and who you chose and the goodness in their heart and holding the space for that and at the same time understanding that as you grow, you gotta give them space to be able to grow and do things. I think that's what the more mature version of me would interpret that to be.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

More with Mel Robbins when we come.

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Think my call is important at all.

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[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Will you talk about.

[Hoda Kotb]

Because again, I think the reason everyone leans into you, and there are many reasons, but it's because you've been through the meat grinder.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

At some point, you decided not to go the lawyer route.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You were a motivational speaker and your.

[Hoda Kotb]

Husband had this pizza joint.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Oh, God, it sounded like a dream. A dream. You had your kids at that point, right?

[Mel Robbins]

Three of them at the age of 10.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. So what's going on?

[Mel Robbins]

Chris had been laid off, Hoda, seven times in the first nine years of our marriage. Now, if that's not a sign that this is a person who is not supposed to be in the corporate world, I don't know what is. And he was doing what most men think they should do, which is chase the corporate ladder and make money. And your worth is in what you provide. And so when he started the restaurant, I was excited for him. And the first one that he and his best friend opened was fantastic. And we were just dumb. We were dumb. And we also didn't have a lot of resources. And so we cashed out everything. Like we thought we had won the lottery. Cause we had one pizza restaurant that was doing well. And so we got rid of the 401k, we cashed out the kids college savings. We took out a home equity line. We found credit cards and maxed them out. We asked friends and family to jump in on this train that was just bound for success because we believed it.

[Hoda Kotb]

You believed it? Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And sometimes in life there's just really bad luck and there's also bad timing. And this all converged right as 2007 and 2008 hit and the recession hit. We also had this dumb luck that there were five Nor', Easters, which were blizzards, that hit that winter in New England on weekend. So the biggest nights of the week were closed through three days. Plus the price of flowers spiked. And we found ourselves in a tsunami of financial. Just hurt. $800,000 in debt. All of our savings gone. Liens are hitting the house. The phone's ringing off the hook with bankruptcy notifications. Plus people have invested. So you gotta, like, pull yourself together and put on a good face because you got a restaurant open and they're trying to figure it out. And so you gotta, like, kind of make like things are gonna be okay, which is what you do when that kind of stuff is Happening. And it just spiraled. And in these moments in your life, whether you suddenly lose someone or you make a bunch of dumb decisions like we did, and you now feel the impact of them, or you just have something so profoundly unfair that happens to you that you don't deserve, it is gonna knock you down to places that you never, ever, ever expected to go. And that's what happened to me. And for a good six months to a year, I just rotted in it. I felt sorry for myself. How did you take care of me? I was angry at Chris.

[Hoda Kotb]

How did I take. Yeah, what did you.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, Hoda. I am not proud to share this, but the fact is, I was paralyzed. I was unemployed. The checking account was in the red. We pulled. I remember the day we had to call the town and tell them we're pulling our kids for soccer. We couldn't pay the $125.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Oh, for soccer?

[Hoda Kotb]

For the kids to play sports.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, geez.

[Mel Robbins]

I didn't tell my parents what was going on. Cause they didn't want them to hate Chris. Chris is a shell of himself. And so I started drinking like crazy. And I would literally start drinking at 6:00 clock at night. Bourbon Manhattan. I would have four a night. I would fall asleep in the living room chair or fall asleep in bed. You wanna know when you're failing at parenting? When your children wake you up because they've missed the bus. And that was me. And I am not proud of it. Not proud of it at all. And the thing is, is that I knew what I should do. But I could not organize the will or the discipline or the motivation to make myself look for a job, or make myself ask for help, or make myself, like, have one Manhattan, for God's sakes, not four. Or make myself get up to get these kids on the bus. And what I've come to learn now is that most of us are not positively motivated to do the thing that's hard. That there's a certain relationship between the pain that you need to feel, because it organizes this frustration and this friction where you finally get to the point where you're like, I am so sick of my own. That I'm doing something. Because staying where I am is actually harder than doing the things that I'm avoiding.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did you think about leaving Chris?

[Mel Robbins]

I wanted to kill him.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

I wanted to leave him. I wanted to. And I'm sure he wanted to get rid of me. But there's this weird thing where I thought maybe that's the solution. But I knew deep down I didn't wanna leave him. I just. You know, when you're afraid, it's easier to be angry at people than it is to drop into the real fear that you have, which is. I was afraid we were gonna lose the house. I was afraid that we'd have to move in with my parents. I was afraid. Or worse, my in laws, you know, I was afraid that. Not anything against them, but, you know, I just. I was afraid that all of our friends would find out what a mess we were. I was afraid of. I was just afraid of. I wouldn't be able to change.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did y' all talk? Did you guys have conversations about it? Or was it so.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, I don't even remember. I literally don't. Like, in periods of your life where you feel this much pressure, you just go into survival mode. And you know, as you know. Cause you've interviewed all the experts too. It's true. When you're in survival mode and you're reacting, reacting, reacting, reacting, the part of your brain that takes over isn't remembering anything. Like, I talked to friends of mine who are in these acute phases where their parents may be dying and they're the caretaker, or you've got a kid in the NIC unit. Oakley was in the NICU for a month. I don't remember a single day of him being in the nicu, because I was so just in. Just go, go, go. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Is he gonna make it mode? And I felt that way about my life for quite a while. And so I think also that combined with the drinking, didn't help with memory.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oakley was in the nicu.

[Mel Robbins]

He was born with a genetic disorder that almost killed him. And we didn't discover it until after he got released. And so we got very, very lucky because we were in Boston. It turned out he had something called Hirschsprung's disease, which is a very good genetic disease to have, if you know about it, because it's a plumbing issue in your intestines. But if you don't find out about it, your intestines can rupture and kill you.

[Hoda Kotb]

I mean, the things that you've been through. I mean, I had a daughter in the NICU for. Well, she was in intensive care for seven days. And it was the most excruciating. Like I thought, how do you ever rise up? How do you ever rise up from almost losing everything? How do you ever rise up? So when you're on your knees like that, what do you do?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

What did you do?

[Hoda Kotb]

Was there a moment where you were like, that's it.

[Mel Robbins]

I think that I've always had this sense that somehow I'm gonna get through this. I do. Like, I. Oh, my God. I remember this story. Oakley had been home for five days. I'm always looking for signs, you know, Always like, give me a sign that I'm gonna make it through this. So we were in the. He had been home for five days, and he was not eating. And I kept taking him to the emergency room. I'm now, this is my third kid. I know something's wrong. And they keep telling me, oh, you're lucky. He's a mellow baby. I'm like, no, no, no, something's really wrong. He's not eating. And they send the lactation consultants. And I'm tweaking his feet, and I'm wrapping him in these cold towels. And I finally go and get him to the pediatrician. We were going every single day. And thankfully Oakley threw up in the pediatrician's office. And it was poop coming out of his mouth.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my God.

[Mel Robbins]

And his pediatrician, Mark, looked at me and said, mel, I do not know what's wrong with him, but something is terribly wrong. You need to get him right now to Newton Wellesley. And so my mom was there, and we drove together to Newton Wellesley. And he was calling ahead. And we walk into the elevator, and a good friend of mine, Kara, walks out. And she's like, what are you doing here? And I'm like, I don't know. Something's wrong with Oakley. She's like, I'm here to help. Whatever you need. And we get an. And Chris. Oh, my God. This was 2005, and Chris was just starting to launch the restaurant. They were raising money to launch the first restaurant. And he was in Florida talking, seeing his parents. Because his dad was recovering from esophageal cancer. And they were down there talking to some of their friends too, about this restaurant business. But mostly he was there to see his dad. So he's flying back as I'm like, heading to the hospital. And we walk into the hospital and, like, his stomach's, like, out like this. Cause he's backing up. Cause his intestines aren't working. And they put us in a room on the kids floor. And I walk in and there's this beautiful mural of Winnie the Pooh. And my husband's name is Christopher Robbins. And I was like, it's gonna be okay. And then they started doing rotations. And this document walks by. And he comes in and we got so lucky. He was the head of. I think his name was Dr. Ryan. He was the head of pediatric surgery at Mass General Brigham, and he was there doing clinical rotations with residents that night. And he took one look at Oakley and he said, we cannot handle this case here. He needs to be medevaced immediately to Mass General. He. He turned to me and said, you gotta go pack a bag. We don't know if he's gonna make it. And it was at that moment that Chris walked in, and of course, being the jerk that I am, I'm like.

[Hoda Kotb]

Where have you been? Which is what we do in crises.

[Mel Robbins]

And so we drove home, and I called my two best friends, Lisa and Robin, at the time, and right then, they were incredible. And we packed our bags, and then we drove to Mass General. And we walked in, and the doors opened to the nicu, and there were Lisa and Robin, and they had both had babies in the nicu. And I just kept telling myself that, you know, no matter what happens, we're going to get through it. It's going to be okay. Thank God we live in Boston and we have, like, this. And it turns out he had Hirschsprung's disease. And to put the in perspective, Dr. Ryan happens to be one of the world's leading experts on it. And my dad has been in medical practice for 30 years, and the chief of pediatric surgery in western Michigan in 30 years has not seen a case of Hirschsprungs.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my God.

[Mel Robbins]

And so we got very lucky. Yeah. But there. There's also a part of me, Hoda, that I'm the person you want in an emergency.

[Hoda Kotb]

I was gonna say yes, and that's perfect.

[Mel Robbins]

Sirens on cue. There's the sign. I have been in more situations where somebody has been choking or somebody's in a coffee shop and they tip a hot boiling water on a baby and they go to strip the clothes, and I'm like, don't strip the clothes. But it's like there's this part of my brain that goes into overdrive because I've taken the trainings and I've done the wilderness EMT stuff, and I just. I don't know. Like, I am at my best when we are in an emergency. Do you.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I mean, is there any divinity going on here?

[Hoda Kotb]

You always see signs all over the place.

[Mel Robbins]

I feel like I am channeling something larger. Not in an egoic sense. I feel connected to something greater than all of us. In fact, the dots in the book on the Let them theory, every dot represents a small moment of information or Wisdom or consciousness going out into the world and also people finding it and coming toward it.

[Capella University Advertiser]

Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow. That's really big. All of the things that you're talking about are big.

[Mel Robbins]

Yeah, really big. I feel this. You know, when all of this started happening, I was beginning my press week on Sunday, landing in la and we had a ton of interviews, and I get a phone call that Oprah's team had reached out because. Cause they were interested in doing an episode for her new podcast. I was like, cancel everything. We're doing this. And they wanted to do an episode about anxiety. And I'm like, we got this. I'm gonna just go into hyper research. We're gonna make this the best thing. I cannot wait to just deliver. She hadn't even announced that she had had a podcast yet. So I'm going through the week, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. And I guess what was happening in the background is that on Tuesday morning, I spoke with one of her producers about our episode to just prepare and, like, make it the best we could be and understand what they wanted to cover. And I guess they went into prep mode because I didn't know this, but on Tuesday night or Wednesday morning, they were starting to research my episode and they realized, wait a minute, Mel has a book coming out.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, geez.

[Mel Robbins]

Wait a minute.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Mel Robbins]

Wow. Can we get a copy?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

And that's how that whole thing happened.

[Mel Robbins]

Wednesday, she gets the book. She starts reading it. I don't even know this. I am told Thursday.

[Hoda Kotb]

That you're doing the.

[Mel Robbins]

That they are adding a second episode and that it is all about this book and that she has read the book cover to cover. And I remember walking on set and seeing her, and she had the book, and it was. There were so many paperclips and so many tabs. And to see someone that you admire really take your work seriously and admire you back, that's so big. It was. That's so big. Nothing like that could have ever been orchestrated unless it was divinely ordered. And I believe.

[Hoda Kotb]

Which is your life. I mean, that really is your life.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

We talked about you being on your.

[Hoda Kotb]

Knees at that point after the restaurant and everything. So what did you do to get out of that?

[Mel Robbins]

That sounds so dumb. But it's all about action. Action relieves anxiety. Action is what changes your mood. You know, the mistake that we make is you think you need the confidence or the motivation to do the thing. And don't discount the importance of desperation. Don't discount the importance of necessity. You have within you the ability to push through the Discouragement and the just doubt that you have, it sounds dumb, but if you start taking actions every day that align with the kind of person you wanna be or the way you wanna feel, over time, you become that person. And for me, it began with just getting out of bed. The simple act of becoming the kind of person that got up when the alarm rang, no matter what kind of day it was, no matter how I felt. Just get up when the alarm is. Make your bed.

[Hoda Kotb]

Do you remember the first day you did that after feeling terrible?

[Mel Robbins]

It was Tuesday morning in February 2008. Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Mel Robbins]

That's the morning that changed my life. You're one decision away from a different life.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. So you put your feet on the floor.

[Mel Robbins]

Put my feet on the floor. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, St. And was like, oh, that's weird. And then I know the next decision. The next decision was I walked into the kitchen and my husband was standing there. And you know that feeling?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

Where you see somebody you love and you just want to kill them? Well, I felt that, but I didn't want to kill him. I loved him. And I went, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And I just took a breath and I was able to gather myself and speak to him kindly for the first time in six months. And then I saw the phone and I hate people and I don't want to call people and I don't want to ask for help at 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I need a job. So I'm telling people, wow, we are in trouble with our mortgage because we can't pay it and haven't paid in three months. So I pick up the phone. Mom, Dad, I need to help.

[Hoda Kotb]

5421. I need help.

[Mel Robbins]

And one irritating and hard and difficult action at a time. I changed my life. That's how you do it.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

More ahead with Mel Robbins. Stay with us.

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[Mel Robbins]

So, like everything in life, I fail at things. And then I'm like, how do I figure this out? And once I learned on my own podcast, episode 77, Dr. Amy Shaw, that women fall short on protein.

[Hoda Kotb]

Protein. Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And then we need protein for muscles, but it helps with dopamine and serotonin also. I didn't know any stuff. You're like, yeah, I know, Mel.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

No, no. But I know now.

[Hoda Kotb]

I know about protein.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So what are we gonna do?

[Hoda Kotb]

Right?

[Mel Robbins]

How hard is it to get protein?

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You have to eat about eight huge chicken legs.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. On egg bites. I'm so sick of egg bites.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

You have to have like a dozen eggs.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes. And I'm like burping as if. Not. Not anymore. Because I partnered with scientists, I built the most incredible 23 grams of complete whey protein in a TSA approved gluten free bottle. Hundred calories.

[Hoda Kotb]

Stop it.

[Mel Robbins]

Stevia and monk fruit. I love it. The sweeteners. So I recruited a world class scientific advisory board that drove the formulation with me. And all of them in clinical practice, all of them with published scientific research. And we have been developed. I've been to the lab, the hair nuts. I drove the flavor. Because I will not slap my name on something. Neither will you.

[Hoda Kotb]

No, of course not.

[Mel Robbins]

What I love about it is I remember when my dad got. He had an intact aneurysm. They had to do brain surgery. They hand you these shakes that are this big that it can be life changers. But if you don't have an appetite, cause you're on a GLP1 or you're recovering from surgery, you can't get the nutrient in. And when I think Hoda. I don't know about the girls, but all three of my kids had ADHD and two of them are dyslexic. And I couldn't get the proper fuel in them because our son in particular. Super picky.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes. Same with my daughter.

[Mel Robbins]

Same game changer.

[Hoda Kotb]

And 100 calories too, which is awesome.

[Mel Robbins]

Oh, you wanna know a great trick?

[Hoda Kotb]

Give It.

[Mel Robbins]

So you know it's a high impact protein. If you look at the grams of protein and that's 23 grams.

[Hoda Kotb]

23, yep. I see.

[Mel Robbins]

Add a 0230. Yeah. Now compare it to calories. 100.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh. Oh.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

So if it's.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, I didn't know that trick.

[Mel Robbins]

Correct. So when you grab a bag of chips or cereal that now say protein.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Mel Robbins]

And it's got 4 grams on it, add 40, but then it's 232. So now you know it's not a high impact source of protein.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love it.

[Mel Robbins]

So I. The point is, whether you try this or not, I just love solving problems and giving people and myself information that you deserve to have. And once I woke up to the importance of protein, I'm not a medical expert, I realized how important this is for everybody to know. And so, you know, this goes with the chicken and the salmon and the hemp hearts and the peas and the eggs and the lentils and all this stuff we're trying. But it helps you bridge a gap when your life is busy and when you can't quite make the ends meet.

[Hoda Kotb]

When you look at your life now, where we are. Cause we're on top of the wave right now.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Do you picture it building still?

[Hoda Kotb]

Like, I mean.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Cause I've known you since when you were beginning.

[Mel Robbins]

Yes.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

And I'm watching you. And whenever I think Mel's at the top, I'm like, wait, where's Mel? Mel. Okay, she's now up there. I'm watching all these wins. But what I love is people are cheering you on. They want you to continue, like on this trajectory. When you think about where you are right now, what are we seeing ahead? I mean, I hate to ask about what's next, but what is it?

[Mel Robbins]

Well, you know, I love that people are cheering. And I think it's because I just want to help. And I started by wanting to help myself and then wanting to help my marriage and then wanting to help my kids and then wanting to help, like, my friendships. And I'm so grateful that this happened late in life because when you have an experience where you almost lose everything that matters, you don't forget what matters. You know, you don't. And so as freaked out as I am about the red carpet, it doesn't really matter in the scheme of life. You know, I hope on my deathbed I say, wow, you look good that night. But I, you know, if I didn't, I didn't. I don't think I want to be buried in a dress. So I don't want to spend a lot of money on it. You know, I just, I. I feel that I'm part of and not the only person. You're a huge part of this. There's a lot of people that are part of the counter programming that is discouraging people that. I'm not telling you anything new. I'm reminding you of what you already know and hopefully encouraging you to walk toward it and to prioritize it and to treat yourself a little bit better. I mean, I don't think a lot about where this is going, because I do think that the second you take your eye off of the mission for how you feel good or what makes you feel like a good person, you then lose what makes you feel like a good person. And so I'm honestly focused on the next episode we're taping. I'm focused on this interview. I am focused on just what's right in front of me. Because as all this started to happen, I reached out to my therapist and I'm like, I'm freaking out. What if I screw this up? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And she said, here's what's. You've done the work to put something out into the world. Stop worrying about that. You're on a plane and it's hurtling through the air and it's now being carried by forces of good and, you know, divine energy. And everybody in the world that wants to feel better and do better and is so sick of the division, and we all largely believe and want the same things, and that force is what's propelling this. Your job is to sit on the plane and to hold your cup of tea and to occasionally look out the window and be like, oh, gosh, there's clouds. How cool. And if Hoda's sitting next to you, talk to her. But don't worry about how fast the plane is going. Don't worry about where it's headed, because that's already been taken care of. And the more you stay present and you understand your lane, this isn't about me. It's about something much larger than me. And I am but just a participant, like so many people in this greater force for good.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love Mol Robinson.

[Mel Robbins]

I love you, honey.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

I love Mel Robbins.

[Mel Robbins]

I love you.

[Interviewer (Podcast Host)]

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And make sure you tell your friends Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotvi is produced by Allison Berger and Mitch Rissmiller, along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Mastarilli. Our audio engineers are Matt Tierney and Joe Plord. Original music by John Estes. Libby Least is the Executive Vice President of Today and lifesty.

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