Sara Blakely On Learning From Failure and Trusting Your Intuition

Summary

Podcast Summary: Making Space with Hoda Kotb

Episode Title: Sarah Blakely On Learning From Failure and Trusting Your Intuition
Release Date: May 28, 2025
Guests: Sarah Blakely, Founder of Spanx
Host: Hoda Kotb

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Introduction

In this inspiring episode of Making Space with Hoda Kotb, host Hoda Kotb engages in a heartfelt conversation with Sarah Blakely, the visionary founder of Spanx. Sarah shares her remarkable journey from selling fax machines door-to-door to becoming the youngest self-made female billionaire. Throughout the episode, Sarah delves into the themes of resilience, intuition, and the power of embracing failure as a stepping stone to success.

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Sarah’s Early Life and Career Path

Sarah Blakely’s entrepreneurial spirit was evident from a young age. Originally aspiring to be a lawyer, Sarah’s plans took an unexpected turn after she failed the LSAT. Reflecting on this pivotal moment, she states:

Sarah Blakely [11:39]: “Those moments in life are such hidden blessings. It's like failures are life's way of nudging you a lot of time and letting you know you're off course.”

Without a formal business education, Sarah ventured into selling fax machines door-to-door. This experience honed her sales skills and instilled a relentless drive to succeed, which would later become crucial in her entrepreneurial endeavors.

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Founding of Spanx

The genesis of Spanx was born out of personal necessity. Frustrated with traditional undergarments that left her uncomfortable panty lines, Sarah decided to create a solution. She recounts:

Sarah Blakely [09:14]: “Let me tell you how this is going to improve your life. Like, this is how you're spending your time now without a fax machine. This is what it's going to mean to you.”

With a modest investment of $5,000 from her fax machine sales, Sarah meticulously developed Spanx, focusing on product quality and consumer needs. Her hands-on approach and dedication laid the foundation for what would become a billion-dollar brand.

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Sales Strategies and Building Spanx

Sarah’s innovative sales strategies played a significant role in Spanx’s success. Determined to place her product in high-end stores, she personally sold Spanx at Neiman Marcus for extended hours, immersing herself in the consumer experience. She shares a memorable tactic:

Sarah Blakely [05:44]: “I went to Target and I bought little envelope stands, and I would go and Renegade style, put them at every cash register in Neiman's, including Gift Wrapping, and throw like five Spanx envelopes in them and walk away.”

This guerrilla marketing approach not only increased product visibility but also demonstrated her commitment to the brand’s success. As a result, Spanx quickly gained traction, securing placements in prestigious department stores like Nordstrom, Bloomingdale’s, and Dillard’s over two years.

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Balancing Business and Family

Despite her burgeoning business, Sarah prioritized her personal life. She married at 37, after dedicating nearly a decade to building Spanx. Balancing entrepreneurship with motherhood was challenging, but Sarah found a way to manage both by delegating responsibilities and building a trustworthy team.

Sarah Blakely [12:50]: “I staggered it. I started Spanx when I was 29. I got married at 37.”

Her husband’s support was pivotal, as he admired her professional achievements while also appreciating her role as a dedicated mother. This balance allowed Sarah to thrive both personally and professionally.

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Decision to Sell Spanx

After 21 years of owning Spanx entirely, Sarah faced the difficult decision to sell a majority stake in her company. This decision was driven by an intuitive sense that she needed to free up mental space for new ventures and personal growth. She reflects on the emotional turmoil of letting go:

Sarah Blakely [20:35]: “It was extremely painful for me and really hard. I went through a tremendous amount of grief of letting go of something that I love that much.”

Despite holding onto a large portion of Spanx, Sarah recognized that continuing to focus solely on Spanx was limiting her potential for future endeavors. The decision, though painful, was necessary for her personal and professional evolution.

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Transition to Sneaks and New Ventures

Embracing her entrepreneurial spirit, Sarah founded Sneaks, a company dedicated to creating comfortable high heels that could be worn with jeans. This new venture was motivated by her own desire for comfortable footwear and aimed to fill a gap in the market. She shares:

Sarah Blakely [25:05]: “I wanted the feeling of a really comfortable high heel that I could wear with jeans. So I was trying to fill a hole in my closet.”

Launching Sneaks was met with the same self-doubt and resilience that characterized her early years with Spanx. Despite taking a year to perfect the product, Sarah remained committed to her vision, demonstrating the same determination that led to Spanx’s success.

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Personal Reflections and Life Lessons

Throughout the episode, Sarah emphasizes the importance of betting on oneself, embracing failure, and trusting one’s intuition. She imparts wisdom to listeners about the value of daydreaming and finding moments of clarity:

Sarah Blakely [37:15]: “Pay attention to where that happens for you. And I'm like, I tell people all the time, when do you daydream? When have you allocated time to daydream?”

Sarah also highlights the significance of fostering a supportive upbringing, where her father encouraged her and her brother to embrace failure as a learning opportunity. This mindset was instrumental in her entrepreneurial journey.

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Conclusion

Sarah Blakely’s story is a testament to the power of perseverance, intuition, and the willingness to embrace failure as a catalyst for growth. From her humble beginnings to building a billion-dollar brand and venturing into new entrepreneurial pursuits, Sarah exemplifies the resilience of the human spirit. Her insights offer valuable lessons for anyone seeking to make space for personal and professional growth in their own lives.

Hoda Kotb [38:19]: “It's going to be fun.”

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sarah Blakely [03:10]: “Why not me?”
• Sarah Blakely [09:14]: “Let me tell you how this is going to improve your life.”
• Sarah Blakely [20:35]: “It was extremely painful for me and really hard.”
• Sarah Blakely [25:05]: “I wanted the feeling of a really comfortable high heel that I could wear with jeans.”
• Sarah Blakely [37:15]: “Pay attention to where that happens for you.”

---

Inspirational Takeaways:

• Embrace Failure: View setbacks as hidden blessings that guide you toward your true path.
• Trust Your Intuition: Listen to your inner voice when making significant life and business decisions.
• Balance and Delegation: Effectively balance professional ambitions with personal life by delegating tasks and building a supportive team.
• Continuous Growth: Always seek new opportunities for growth and transformation, even after achieving significant success.

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Making Space with Hoda Kotb continues to provide listeners with profound insights and inspiring stories from remarkable individuals like Sarah Blakely. This episode serves as a powerful reminder that with resilience and self-belief, one can navigate through challenges and achieve extraordinary success.

Transcript

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[Hoda Kotb]

Have you ever believed in something bigger than so much so that nothing, and I mean nothing, could stop you, that even when you are told no, you just kept going? Well, my guest today is living proof of the power of betting on yourself, of never giving up, and of trusting that voice within the one telling you to keep going. Sarah Blakely is the founder of Spanx, the hugely popular brand of women's body slimming undergarments. Now a household name and a celebrity favorite. And while Sarah has had an entrepreneurial spirit from a young age, her road to success was long and winding. She set out to be a lawyer until a failed LSAT changed her course. She went on to sell fax machines door to door until one moment changed everything when she decided to reinvent her life and invent a product that she could sell to millions of people that would make them feel good. Like most great ideas, Spanx was born out of necessity and the rest is history. Sarah worked and hustled, putting her heart and soul into every single part of the brand, building it from the ground up. And that hard work, it has paid off. Spanx turned the industry on its head and it's now valued at more than $1 billion. Not to mention, Sarah became the youngest self made female billionaire in the world. And just recently she founded a new company called sneak. This girl, she's the real deal. She's a founder, an entrepreneur and a person who lifts women up. She's a brilliant businesswoman, a loving mom and an amazing human being. And I have a feeling she's Just getting started. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to my podcast, Making Space. Sarah, my favorite thing about you is the word. I don't know if it's one word or two. Self made. That's what I love. Whenever I tell anybody about you, I always say self made. Because that makes us all believe. Why not me? Why not me?

[Sarah Blakely]

Why not me?

[Hoda Kotb]

Right, so no business degree, nothing formal, just a lot of go get em this.

[Sarah Blakely]

Yes, A lot of chutzpah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Chutzpah, Chutzpah.

[Sarah Blakely]

You know, that just remind me, I was being interviewed by a gentleman. I can't remember what magazine he was the editor for, but at the very end of the interview he listed all these things that I had done. And then he goes, so why you? And I just organically said, why not me? It just came from my soul. But you know, why not? And so that's sort of how I've lived my life, I think.

[Hoda Kotb]

I mean, I wanna talk about your next venture. Cause that really excites me. But I do wanna say something about Spanx that I didn't think I knew. Kathie Lee and I wore them for years. Spanx alert. I mean, obviously this is something so iconic. But what struck me about you? And this is when I was like, I actually had a team meeting with this new company I'm starting and I recited this story. I said, let what Sarah did when she finally got Spanx into Neiman Marcus, I said, she took herself to Neiman's. She took herself. Because I love this line. You weren't going to let the lady in hosiery be responsible for your future. What did you do?

[Sarah Blakely]

Well, after I landed Neiman Marcus, which was insane, as my first account, really, that's when the hard work started. Like, I think a lot of entrepreneurs will think, oh, I've landed the big account. But I didn't want to leave my success in the hands of anyone else if I didn't have to. So I went and sold, sold Spanx for Neiman's myself.

[Hoda Kotb]

How.

[Sarah Blakely]

And I stood in the department store seven hours a day and sold Spanx for the sales associates. Because I realized, and by doing that, I was talking directly to customers. So I was where my consumer was. Because I didn't have a business plan. I didn't have the next four products or, you know, like, you just had this. I just had this. I was like, I know this works for me under my white pants, but because I did that, then I got my next idea from the consumers and then I. It became A brand. And not just a one product, but I was in the department store and thinking to myself, I'm in the sleepiest corner of the store. No one comes over here. And my product is helping sell the $10,000 couture dresses, and it's helping sell the high heels. And so I actually, once I determined that I was in the nice store but in the wrong area, I went to Target and I bought. Or it must Target or Office Depot. And I bought little envelope stands, and I would go and Renegade style, put them at every cash register in Neiman's, including Gift wr, and throw like five Spanx envelopes in them and walk away. And Neiman's is so pristine.

[Hoda Kotb]

Of course.

[Sarah Blakely]

I mean, they're visual departments. Like, of course. And I remember everyone being like, did someone approve this? I'm like, oh, yes, someone approved it. You know, And I walk away really quickly, like, oh, God, I hope they don't find me out. And what ended up happening was I sold so many Spanx that by the time they realized no one had approved that, Bert Tansky, I guess, was the CEO at the time. And he saw the numbers and he said, whatever this girl is doing, let her keep doing it.

[Hoda Kotb]

So you.

[Sarah Blakely]

So they let Spanx not be sold in the department that it was meant to be sold in, which would have been very constricting, no pun intended. I would have been like, you know, in the corner of the department store, and less and less people were going to hosiery.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right.

[Sarah Blakely]

And I got one pocket. Hoda, what do you mean?

[Hoda Kotb]

What's one pocket?

[Sarah Blakely]

Like, you know, the hosier department have rows and rows and rows. I started as one pocket.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's it.

[Sarah Blakely]

Yeah. And I was between Calvin Klein and Donna Karan. And I remember standing there and weeping the first time that it was there. Cause I'm like, these are really big deals, like Calvin Klein. Yeah, And Donna Karan. And then I just laughed. Cause I'm like, I thought of the word Spanx in my car. And here it is between these two big, notable brands.

[Hoda Kotb]

So you did this. You went from Neiman's to Neiman's to Neiman's in city after city after city.

[Sarah Blakely]

Neiman Sachs, Nordstrom, Bloomingdale's, and Dillard's for two solid years, seven days a week.

[Hoda Kotb]

Come on.

[Sarah Blakely]

Stood for seven to eight hours a day. I would do a morning meeting before the store opened, get every sales associate, but the manager would go sold in the hosiery department. So here are your three employees that you're doing your morning meeting. And then I'd go, I rented a car, I got on a plane, I used Sky Miles. I'm in a really crappy hotel on a highway. Can I please be in front of more employees? And so I'd run around and like rally and convince the ladies that sold lipstick and the men and women who sold shoes. And they would all come and I would bribe them to come to my morning meeting, and then I would just sell them all and tell them what Spanx was. And, you know, I didn't realize it at the time, but I was building a salesforce that wasn't on my payroll because all these employees were really cheering and rooting for me. And then I'd give out free pair to all the women and they'd go, this is life changing.

[Hoda Kotb]

See, the thing you do that's so. I mean, you do so many great things, but the way that you are able to sell. You described in something I saw where a long time before, you were selling office equipment. And you're trying to figure out how to sell a fax machine.

[Sarah Blakely]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

What's the secret? Okay, so there are people who are listening right now who are trying to get a business off the ground, but they can't figure out how to sell the product.

[Sarah Blakely]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

So how do you sell that?

[Sarah Blakely]

Well, let me first by giving sales a sales pitch. Okay, okay. I've heard people go, I don't sell. It's not my thing. Life is sales. If you can get good at selling, life becomes so much easier. Whether you're an accountant, you have to sell yourself at some point to get a promotion. You have to convince somebody that you're worthy of more what income. So if you're buying a car, you have to kind of convince the sales rep to give you a better deal. So I think it's a really important life skill no matter what you do, even if you aren't in sales.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's interesting.

[Sarah Blakely]

So I'm always trying to tell people, and then I always say, sell the problem that you're solving, not the product. People are far less interested in your product. They're way more invested in the problem that you're solving and the why. And with Spanx, I led with a why. Like, why did I create this? What need was I filling? I owned these white pants. I owned all these light colors that I'd spent my hard earned money on. They were hanging in my closet unworn because I couldn't figure out what to wear under them. And so I really was giving the why. And people get really Invested in that more than the what? So a lot of people might have a product and get really obsessed with.

[Hoda Kotb]

The features of a fax machine. You're like, look how fancy it is, right?

[Sarah Blakely]

All the features and buttons. I'd be like, let me tell you how this is going to improve your life. Like, this is how you're spending your time now without a fax machine. This is what it's going to mean to you. Meanwhile, can I tell you, I first, this is how long ago this was. First of all, half your listeners are probably like, what's a fax machine? But, Hoda, I was selling fax machines when my biggest objection was, well, who am I gonna fax? I was like, you're right. Give me their name and number and I'll sell them a fax so that you can fax them.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did you? Right?

[Sarah Blakely]

It was like, in the beginning, I.

[Hoda Kotb]

Mean, look, this drive. This is what I mean, what you have that people who aren't wildly successful is this crazy drive. Your dad was kind of. He, he had high standards for you. Like, he expected you to be amazing.

[Sarah Blakely]

Like, he, he did. He was tough. I mean, I was raised by a litigator, a trial attorney, and my mom is an artist. So my mom was a stay at home mom and an artist. And I say, you know, I'm kind of the combination of those two people. But my dad was very into stand on your own two feet. He taught me to fail very early on, and it actually encouraged it. Hoda. So at the dinner table growing up, my dad would say, so what'd you fail at this week? And if I didn't have something, he'd be disappointed. I'd come home and be like, dad, Dad, I tried out for this and I was horrible. And he'd high five me and go, way to go. Because he was. I didn't realize it at the time. I'm like, my dad's crazy. But he was redefining failure. For my brother and me, it didn't become about the outcome, it became about not trying. So I think we grow up really wanting to please our parents and be perfect for our parents. And to have a parent that's like.

[Hoda Kotb]

So what'd you feel?

[Sarah Blakely]

What'd you feel at home?

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, so you wanted to be a lawyer. Your dad was.

[Sarah Blakely]

And I failed the lsat.

[Hoda Kotb]

What did he say when you told him that? Was he still like, yay?

[Sarah Blakely]

I don't think he was not surprised. I was a terrible test taker.

[Hoda Kotb]

I was not surprised.

[Sarah Blakely]

I think I had some undiagnosed you know, in the 70s, they didn't diagnose anything.

[Hoda Kotb]

You didn't know you could have.

[Sarah Blakely]

I was, like, dyslexic and all the things. Adhd. I would be diagnosed with, like a rap sheet now, Hoda. But back then. And so I couldn't concentrate and really focus on the lsat, which was a bummer. Cause I had been debating all through high school and college. Like, I was a champion debater. I was like, I'm gonna be such a good lawyer.

[Hoda Kotb]

So did that make you feel crummy, Failure? Yeah.

[Sarah Blakely]

Oh, yeah. I cried a lot. But I always tell people, like, those. Those moments in life are such hidden blessings. It's like failures are life's way of nudging you a lot of time and letting you know you're off course. And had I not failed the lsat, Spanx wouldn't exist.

[Hoda Kotb]

That is so crazy.

[Sarah Blakely]

Isn't that crazy?

[Hoda Kotb]

You would have been debating somebody in a courtroom and crushing it.

[Sarah Blakely]

But still, right? With a bad panty line. With a bad panty line.

[Hoda Kotb]

With a horrible.

[Sarah Blakely]

With a horrible panty line.

[Hoda Kotb]

We all would have had them. Oh, my God. Okay, so Spank starts to take off, and your husband said something which I don't think gets enough play. This is kind of what he said. He said, you know, we always hear about my wife as being this wildly successful businesswoman. Isn't she incredible? What people don't say enough is somehow this woman managed to be an incredible mother. Now, I know you are. But what always surprised me, people who are exceptional. Simone Biles is exceptional. Simone Biles is exceptional because she's one dimensional here right now. She knows this is my thing. Sorry. Everything else. Sorry. But this is how I'm going to be. Incredible. How were you able to really work it and be there for your kids and the doctor's appointments and all the other business.

[Sarah Blakely]

I staggered it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay.

[Sarah Blakely]

So I started Spanx when I was 29. I got married at 37.

[Hoda Kotb]

Ah, so you had finished that chapter.

[Sarah Blakely]

Well, I hadn't finished it, but I was at a point where I could delegate more. I could afford to hire people. I always say to entrepreneurs, as soon as you can afford to hire your weaknesses, do it. And so, you know, I'd built a team around me of really exceptional people. But, yeah, I. You know, it's funny that you mentioned my husband, because I didn't get married till I was 37 and.

[Hoda Kotb]

Why? Because you were busy?

[Sarah Blakely]

Well, I was busy, but I also dated a lot of guys that would tell me that the Success and the money didn't bother them. And then it would become a thing in the relationship. It was just. It was not easy for me to be dating then with Spanx. And then I met Jesse, and we were engaged, Hoda. And we were on the Upper west side at. I think it was called Josie's. I'm not sure we were. I'll never forget. He was eating spaghetti. He had, like, spaghetti hanging out of his mouth. And I was like, I have to tell you something. And he looked so freaked out. And I was so nervous to tell him. I think he, in retrospect, said, sarah, I thought you were ending our engagement. And I said, jesse, I think I make more money than you think I do.

[Hoda Kotb]

And what did he say? This is telling.

[Sarah Blakely]

He slurped up his rest of his spaghetti, Hoda. And he goes, couldn't have happened to a nicer person. And then kept eating spaghetti.

[Hoda Kotb]

You know what?

[Sarah Blakely]

That's the last thing that's ever been said. My husband had no idea. He told guys. I would overhear him. When we first started dating, he thought that Spanx were sold at Barnes and Noble. I'm like, honey, he's such a guy's guy, Hoda. He's such a guy's guy.

[Hoda Kotb]

But finding that kind of guy is hard. I'm sorry. You found the one.

[Sarah Blakely]

I found it. And he is so happy by my success. That's what I wish for everyone. Like, the brighter my star gets, the happier he gets. He's so proud of me. He's like, look what you did. I mean, I'll overhear him telling our children all the time. Do you guys know what a big deal your mom is? You know, and they're rolling their eyes. I know.

[Hoda Kotb]

More with Sarah Blakely when we come back.

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[Hoda Kotb]

So your sibling, your brother, is also an entrepreneur. I have a younger brother. So what did your parents do to create?

[Sarah Blakely]

My dad encouraged us to fail growing up. So that is a big part. I think the fear of failure stops a lot of people. So we were raised that way. And my mom was extremely creative and very nurturing and supportive. So I think that, you know, we were raised in a household where my mom really wasn't preoccupied with what other people thought.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's good, that's good.

[Sarah Blakely]

And my dad was all about, like, take the leap, take the risk. Try it, try it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. So Spanx is wildly successful. You're on 60 Minutes. I'm like cheering in my living room. Let's go. Sarah. Thank you. Amazing. And then there comes a point where you're deciding whether or not you should sell your company.

[Sarah Blakely]

Oh, yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

And this is your baby. I mean, this is. You nurtured it. So I can only imagine what the decision, how difficult the decision was, but what made you decide to sell it? And then what was the emotion after?

[Sarah Blakely]

So I had been. The first year I started Spanx, all these people came up to me and said, so what's your exit strategy? And Hoda, I didn't even know what that meant. Like, I'd never taken a business class in my life. I was like, I want to exit a room and look good. That was my Exit strategy. But then over all these years, I owned Spanx 100% for 21 years.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Sarah Blakely]

So I didn't take any outside funding. I took my.

[Hoda Kotb]

You had no investors?

[Sarah Blakely]

No, I took my $5,000 from selling fax machines door to door and used it to create Spanx.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, okay. What about advertising? Did you have Spanx?

[Sarah Blakely]

Didn't advertise for the first 16 years.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wait, so just you running around saying. Because I remember that, yes, look at it before. Look at.

[Sarah Blakely]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, that was.

[Sarah Blakely]

And word of mouth and the power of women sharing the great secret like women were. And, you know, think about what I created. It wasn't seen, so it wasn't even something that people saw. You either had to flash it or you had to talk about it. And before Spanx, no one talked about their undergarments.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right.

[Sarah Blakely]

I mean, ever. No one was on the red carpet going, well, let me tell you actually what my bra is. So it was really based on these women sharing.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay.

[Sarah Blakely]

You know, and I get flash still to this day, everywhere I go. It's so fun.

[Hoda Kotb]

Tell me about the decision. So when you decided to decide, this decision was major.

[Sarah Blakely]

So I had been thinking about it for a while. I just knew everyone would ask me, and I'd say, I operate so much off intuition. I'm just gonna intuitively know when it feels like it's the right time for me and the business. And the business was thriving and doing really, really well. And I'm looking at all my babies, and I'm thinking about my age and where I am in life, and. And the best way I can describe it is I made a decision based off of spirit. Like, spirit kept knocking on my shoulder and tapping my shoulder, and I'd kind of like go like this, fanning it away. And then I just. I did it. And it was extremely painful for me and really hard. I went through a tremendous amount of grief of letting go of something that I love that much. I mean, I still own a big chunk of Spanx, but I made the decision to sell the majority. And the reason that I did that is. Cause part of why spirit was knocking at me was spirit knew that I was supposed to free up mental share. Like, I'd been thinking about the same thing. 80% of my thoughts had been on Spanx for so long that you needed. I became curious, Hoda, to what I would be thinking about if it wasn't taking up that much mental share.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's interesting.

[Sarah Blakely]

But I'll tell you, after I sold it, ego got pretty mad. Ego and I got in a bar fight daily for like a year and a half. Ego was like, what the hell? Why would you do this? This is your baby.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did you wonder if you had.

[Sarah Blakely]

Oh, for sure. I mean, I never regretted the decision. I only regretted that I needed to make a decision that caused me that much pain, because it was painful. And I love Spanx so much. And like I said, I'm still a part of the team. I'm the chairwoman of the board. But when you nurture. I basically birthed Spanx, grew it for 21 years. So if you kind of think of it as a child, my baby was like, it had already been in college. It was back home living with me back home.

[Hoda Kotb]

I was like, maybe this is time.

[Sarah Blakely]

Maybe this is time. But, yeah. And I also looked at my kids and I thought, you know, some people feel really strongly about a family business, and I wanted them to find their own Spanx, whatever that is, one day, and not feel compelled to be a part of it. So that also crossed my mind.

[Hoda Kotb]

How did. I want to talk about how you dealt with that? Because I think whenever there's a huge tectonic of late shift.

[Sarah Blakely]

Yeah. Major transition.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right. What are we going to do?

[Sarah Blakely]

Life is not set up for, like, the supportive transitions.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Sarah Blakely]

You know, transitions are hard. And especially midlife. Like, there's a lot happening in midlife. There's a cataclysm of transitions. Our parents are getting older. Some people have empty nests. Like, you're thinking about your career differently at this age. Your body's changing.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Sarah Blakely]

But, you know, transitions are made up of, like, the ending and then the messy middle and then the new beginning. And when I made the decision with Spanx, I love quotes. And three quotes really symbolize how I felt during that decision and for the first 18 months. And the first quote was, in order to discover new land, you must be willing to lose sight of the shore. And that's hard to not see the shore. Hoda. You're, like, out in the dinghy and you're like, what have I done? Just jumped off a perfectly good ship. And then the next one is, you can make the right decision and still be sad. And then the last one is you can miss it and still not want it back.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my God. You know, it's funny, all these are landing with me, too, because after. I know, because there is a moment where you were on top. And I kind of, in my own way, felt that here for sure. And I remember on my 60th birthday here, it was a huge party And I remember looking out, and I thought I knew. Like, with the certainty of a warm hand on my heart, I go, this is it. Like, this is the top, man. This is what the crest feels like. Because you want a wave to sustain the crest, and it can't. Waves don't. They are up. You're here. And I recognize that I have been here for many years, and I've never felt that feeling. And I knew it was not to be duplicated. It wasn't like, next year, it's gonna be an even. I did not. I knew. And once it crashed, I had interviewed this actor, and he said to me, it's like a movie. The best movie. You're top. You won an Oscar crash. And then you paddle back out again, and you look for your next wave. You're like, which one? That one. I'll let that one go. Oh, that looks like a good one. And then you've got a different one coming in. So you were out there in the dinghy. No, shore. And you needed some grounding.

[Sarah Blakely]

You're making me laugh. I was talking to one of my best childhood friends, and I'm like. And I'm out in the dinghy, and I'm in the middle of nowhere, and I can't see the shore. She was trying to be sympathetic. She's like, okay, well, let's be clear. You're not on a dinghy. You might be on a yacht. And I'm like, fine, I'm on the yacht, but I can't see the shore.

[Hoda Kotb]

Now, I do have a question about that. This is interesting because I do think there are people who may be listening who might say, look, if I hit it so big, it's like winning the lottery for them and feeling bad. But the pain that comes has nothing to do with that part of your life. I think that's something to kind of explain.

[Sarah Blakely]

Yeah. No, it doesn't. And I didn't sell Spanx for financial reasons. Like some entrepreneurs, that's the time that they can monetize. Spanx had been very profitable for a long time. It was just a really deep knowing that I was like. It's like, sometimes those knowings are the scariest things to have to do. But then also, I started sneaks, and I was just as scared. You were that, like, freaked out.

[Hoda Kotb]

First of all, I love sneaks.

[Sarah Blakely]

I know you do.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love that you love sneak. I love them. I love them. And I think it's so interesting because you're riding your next wave. These are them. And to start something brand New. Did you have the same feelings you had when you were starting Spanx? The concern about, like, is this good? Is it gonna work?

[Sarah Blakely]

I had all the same. I was crippled with self doubt. I was started and stopped a million times. I was like, am I really gonna do this? You know? And when you create something new, the only way you find out if other people are really going to love it is if you put yourself out there. And so it's scary. And I actually invented sneaks. It took me a long time to make them, but once I got the shoe where I was excited to wear it. And for me, I was really trying to fill a hole in my closet with jeans in particular.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Sarah Blakely]

I'm like, I go out to dinner a lot, and with jeans and a cute top, I don't want to be in sneakers anymore in my jeans. I feel like I look like I did in middle school. Like, some women can really rock that look. I. I don't rock that look. And so I was like, but I can't put on one of my pointy toed heels anymore. I just can't.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's enough.

[Sarah Blakely]

So I wanted the feeling of a really comfortable high heel that I could wear with jeans. Anyway, that's the hole I was trying to fill in my closet. And I had created the shoe. And then we were launching, and I paused it an entire year. Why? I sat on it an entire year. And I had a small, very dedicated, mighty team. And I said to them, I feel not ready. And I have to honor this feeling. I'm scared of.

[Hoda Kotb]

What was the hesitancy?

[Sarah Blakely]

I think I was scared. I think it just. I had maybe felt like I didn't let enough time from Spanx pass. I wanted to travel with my children and just. I had a lot of feelings around it, but I honored that intuition and we paused it a whole year.

[Hoda Kotb]

God, you're so good at listening to yourself. Like, thank God you did that.

[Sarah Blakely]

I ask for signs. Do you ask for signs? Yes, all the time. So you know, of course. And ask for signs.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's the whisper. It's like the whisper that you hear that you said you bat away sometimes. And then if you bat it away enough, it, like, goes away. Yeah, because I've done that before. I'm like, wait, what happened to the thing?

[Sarah Blakely]

Exactly.

[Hoda Kotb]

More to come with Sarah Blakely. Stay with us.

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[Sarah Blakely]

That'll be 5,287.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, no.

[Sarah Blakely]

Do I have enough in my bank account to cover that?

[Hoda Kotb]

That. Oh, please, have enough. Okay, here we go.

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[Hoda Kotb]

That's right.

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[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, so you've got sneaks, you've got your kids, you got like. How do you feel about where you are right now in your life? I mean, when you look at the life you've created, which is incredible. I love watching you and your girls go on trips and stuff.

[Sarah Blakely]

I was just did that.

[Hoda Kotb]

You just did. Where'd you guys go?

[Sarah Blakely]

Last week? I took them to Santa Fe as a surprise. So I've been taking my 11 childhood friends away on a surprise vacation every year on my birthday. This was my 19th year. So I've taken the same girls away every year for 19 years. These are women that work really hard and never do anything for themselves. And I whisk them away and the only thing they're told, Hoda is hot, cold or passport. And they don't know. They don't know where they're going. So this year we did a spiritual retreat in Santa Fe called Mea Modern Elder Academy by Chip Conley. Do you know Chip?

[Hoda Kotb]

Chip Conley? Wait, what? What? I wanted to go to that.

[Sarah Blakely]

You have to go. I did. It was in Cabo and his new location is in Santa Fe. Stop. It's a year old.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wait, do you Love it.

[Sarah Blakely]

I love it.

[Hoda Kotb]

I want to go to Santa Fe.

[Sarah Blakely]

I did it in Cabo. Okay, you will love it.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm dying. The Modern Elder Academy.

[Sarah Blakely]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's what it's about, transitions into other aspects. Did your girls, like, freak out?

[Sarah Blakely]

They freaked out. It was so awesome.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, okay, okay. I'm writing this down so I can remember to go. Okay.

[Sarah Blakely]

It was so good. So his new location is in Santa Fe, and it is called the Modern Elder Academy because he was hired after he sold his business at Airbnb to be their Modern Elder. So the wise person in the building, because Brian, who started Airbnb, was like, we're all in our 20s, you know, can you just be our voice of wisdom? Which I think is really cool. I mean, a lot of cultures have what you call the elder. Like, in Africa, there's like, go seek out the elder of the tribe and different communities. So he just kind of reframes midlife. He's like, midlife got a bad rap in the 80s when someone wrote a book called the Midlife Crisis. And he goes, it's not a crisis. It's a chrysalis. And it's a really big transition time. And if you think about the caterpillar, Hoda, it, like, eats itself. It, like, goes into a cocoon and, like, transforms, melts, is willing to basically, like, yeah, become goo. And then it comes out a butterfly. And I think a lot of times in midlife, we are faced with this moment of, like, am I willing to become goo and do this and make these hard decisions and face maybe certain things where all the places I've been before feel really comfortable right now. But do I want to see if I can transform into a butterfly and a new chapter and a new beginning? And all the things he's got that.

[Hoda Kotb]

Whole thing about your first part of life's about learning. Second part's about earning. And the third part, what is it about? It's about, like, you know, giving back and mentoring and all those things. And I feel like once you check boxes, you're like, well, now what? You're like, this is such a. I mean, you watch Oprah and Gayle and all these people who are in there, Maria, they're all getting into their 70s, and they're crushing it.

[Sarah Blakely]

They're crushing it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Sarah Blakely]

Yeah, I agree with that. Like, I always say, the first part of my life was about proving. I was very much proving, and now it's about improving.

[Hoda Kotb]

Why do I love that so much? That is so profound, because it feels.

[Sarah Blakely]

So profound and it's so true. Yeah. And striving. And so, like, I spent a lot of time striving, striving, striving, striving. And then things happen in midlife, and then you're arriving, and I found out I'm really uncomfortable with arriving. Like, I don't know how to be in arriving.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's interesting.

[Sarah Blakely]

So I'm learning, right? Because when you've been on this treadmill and you're, like, proving striving, you know, I hurled myself off that treadmill, so to speak. And then I was like. I think I was running in place, like, sweating in my room, like, what's happening? Like, I was so uncomfortable, not just running. And so I kind of felt very disoriented, especially after making that big decision. But I'm on the other side of it now, and I have to say, it's really beautiful. I feel very present. I feel really a calm energy that I haven't felt really much in my life and in my journey. And I've always felt so grateful, Hoda, even during all the Spanx madness. I mean, I am so grateful to be a woman born in the right country at the right time. Like, I'm not lost on me that I had nothing to do with that part of my journey. And I just see my mom and my grandmothers and their lack of options that they had. And I kind of had this quiet knowing as a child that there was, like, unrealized dreams and potentials of my mom and my grandparents and my grandmothers in particular, and that just. My mom's only 22 years older than me, and I'm like, we've been on the planet a while, depending on who you ask. Some people think millions of years. Some people think a couple thousand. Either way, it's a while. And if I made this cut by 22 years that I have more opportunity than, like, my mom did. I mean, my mom had such limited opportunities. Then I feel so grateful, and I'm gonna do everything I can to make the most of it.

[Hoda Kotb]

That is so beautiful. That is so beautiful. I want to cry for an hour, but I won't because I'm already dehydrated. Some other things. Okay, so that was really beautiful, boy. So simple. What do you think your kids have learned from you?

[Sarah Blakely]

I think they have learned to bet on yourself and to take risks. I think they have learned to do it with, like, a joy and fun and humor and, you know, not taking it too seriously. And I think that they have learned that I'm not very preoccupied with what other people think about me.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's good.

[Sarah Blakely]

Like in fact, when I launched sneaks, you know, part of why I launched sneaks, I did a long pro and con list. Also for me, I did get very direct signs from the universe about creating this comfortable high heel because I had been talking about it publicly for so long and I'm like, someone needs to.

[Hoda Kotb]

Do this, someone needs to do it.

[Sarah Blakely]

Like I can't walk in heels anymore, they're so uncomfortable. But part of why I did is because my kids, they know about Spanx and they understand they're still young. I have a 9 year old, two 10 year olds and a 15 year old and my youngest is a daughter and my other three are boys. But they didn't see all the hard work and the heartaches and the ups and downs. So when I launched sneaks, it was very polarizing because anytime you do anything new, there's a lot of feedback. Some people love it, some people hate it. And so I would bring the articles or I would say like this is what people said about sneaks. And my kids eyes would be so big, you know, and I'd be like, but mommy knows why she did it. I know where my intention was. And for the people who this is meant for, I made it for them and I made it for myself. So I get to keep showing them that.

[Hoda Kotb]

Like I love that lesson.

[Sarah Blakely]

Yeah, there's boxes of sneaks in my house, in the garage. It's like a start. I'm in startup mode.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hoda, I love it.

[Sarah Blakely]

But now I have all these kids to witness the startup mode.

[Hoda Kotb]

Lastly. So if you have a day that's all for you, you have nothing on the calendar and you have nothing to worry about. No kids, no nothing. If you don't want, you get to open your eyes when you want and go to bed when want and do what you want for one full day and it's just you, how would you feel it?

[Sarah Blakely]

I would wake up and drink matcha lattes and then I would go for a drive and listen to music and think. I love to daydream. And I access my best thinking in the car I've identified. So I would do that for a while and probably have no idea where I was going and just drive. I would have a hamburger and french fries for lunch with friends and I would have a really great dinner with my family.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love it.

[Sarah Blakely]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So you, you think the best when you're driving?

[Sarah Blakely]

I do.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's so interesting.

[Sarah Blakely]

I recognize like everyone, you know, we have our best Moments where we're kind of like getting downloads.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Sarah Blakely]

You know, and so pay attention to where that happens for you. And I'm like, I tell people all the time, when do you daydream?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Sarah Blakely]

Like, get out your calendar and show me. When do you daydream? When have you allocated time to daydream? And a lot of people go, oh, well, when I'm jogging, I go through my to do list. I'm like, no, I'm not talking about your to do list. Where does your mind wander?

[Hoda Kotb]

I love it.

[Sarah Blakely]

And in the wandering, you'll get so much clarity. And for me, I identified a long time ago that it happens in the car while I'm driving and I'm listening to music in the background. But I will get such clear. That's where I thought of the name Spanx. It's where I have all these ideas. I write them down. So where is it for you? Like, is it in the shower? I know for Einstein it was when he was shaving. And make sure you plan more of that in your calendar and in your day. And we are really being assaulted by distraction.

[Hoda Kotb]

I know.

[Sarah Blakely]

So, like, it's harder and harder to daydream.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. To find those.

[Sarah Blakely]

A daydream doesn't usually happen unless you're kind of alone in your thoughts.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes. With no phone, no nothing, no friends, nothing.

[Sarah Blakely]

Right.

[Hoda Kotb]

You are extraordinary. As everybody knows, so are you. And you're getting better. Why do you. You're getting better, too.

[Sarah Blakely]

Listen, I think the same thing about you.

[Hoda Kotb]

You.

[Sarah Blakely]

You need to sell face cream. If you're the age you're telling me you are, you need to be on QVC tomorrow going, you could look like me.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're so funny. You crack me up. I love you so much.

[Sarah Blakely]

You look so great.

[Hoda Kotb]

Thank you.

[Sarah Blakely]

And I love your energy and I've loved watching you all these years, and I can't wait for this next chapter.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's going to be fun.

[Sarah Blakely]

You're already seeing the shore.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's happening. I know, I know. It's really happening.

[Sarah Blakely]

I'm excited for you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Thank you. Hey, guys. Thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli, our own audio engineers are Katie Lau and Bob Mallory. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Le is the executive Vice president of Today and Lifestyle.

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