Podcast Summary

Podcast: Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Episode: Sheryl Lee Ralph on Dreams, Determination, and Defying the Odds
Air Date: October 15, 2025
Host: Hoda Kotb
Guest: Sheryl Lee Ralph

Overview

In this deeply personal and inspiring episode, Hoda Kotb sits down with Sheryl Lee Ralph—Tony-nominated actress, Emmy winner, and trailblazer known for iconic performances in Broadway’s Dreamgirls, the hit sitcom Moesha, and, most recently, Abbott Elementary. The two discuss the origins of Sheryl’s resilience, the importance of joy and faith, overcoming societal limitations, and the meaning of true success. Sheryl candidly reflects on career setbacks, the power of representation, and her hard-earned triumphs, offering wisdom on perseverance, believing in oneself, and making space for joy, rest, and thriving at every age.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Foundation of Joy and Strength

• On Carrying Joy Every Day

  • Sheryl opens with a testament to her joyful nature, rooted in lessons from her parents who fortified her against the challenges of the '60s by constantly providing hope and a sense of the possible.
  • Quote: “Joy is my strong suit. Every time I wake up in the morning, I know for a fact millions didn’t make it, but I am one of those that did.” (03:39 - SLR)

• Her Parents, Pride, and Influence

  • Sheryl talks about growing up in Waterbury, Connecticut, the daughter of a Jamaican mother and a trailblazing Black educator father. Their pride in voting, in education, and in family significance shaped her sense of confidence and belonging.
  • Quote: “I believed my parents. I believed what my parents told me. And I had a passport. Having a passport gives me the world.” (05:51 - SLR)

• The Importance of Representation

  • Early exposure to Black professionals in Jamaica and her own family defied the negative messages she encountered in American society, reinforcing her belief that “anything is possible.”

Early Aspirations & The Turning Point

• First Encounters with Performing

  • Sheryl’s passion for performing began as a child, watching her brother land the speaking role in a play. She recalls a formative moment dancing for the Queen’s visit in Jamaica and feeling pure joy from performing.
  • Quote: “My teacher was right there just clapping away. And I remember, oh, my God, it just felt so good. And I’ve never forgotten that.” (08:05 - SLR)

• Academic Excellence: Education and Detours

  • Sheryl excelled at school, graduating high school at 16 and college at 19, initially planning to pursue medicine or law at her parents’ urging.
  • She humorously describes walking out of a biology class (“I’m not cutting up the Easter Bunny!”) and later on constitutional law taught by Ruth Bader Ginsburg—only to stumble into an audition while lost on campus.
  • Quote: “I walked in as a freshman and I got cast in the play and that started everything.” (12:49 - SLR)

Defying Parental and Industry Expectations

• The Difficult Conversation about Career Choice

  • Her mother was furious when Sheryl chose acting over a law or medical career. Her father, however, gave her permission to pursue happiness and authenticity.
  • Quote: “If you want to act, you want to sing, you better make a good choice for you. And that’s what I did. And it was the right choice.” (13:27 - SLR)

• First Big Breaks and Hollywood Reality

  • Sheryl shares her journey to L.A., her first film role with Sidney Poitier, and later how she navigated Hollywood with grit and strategic planning—despite being told there was “no room” for a Black woman.
  • She candidly recounts plotting her move, her early gigs, and fateful encounters that kept her going.

Representation, Setbacks, and Pivotal Moments

• Dreamgirls and the Power of Visibility (21:05–22:36)

  • The impact of Dreamgirls, with young Black girls seeing themselves on stage, moved her deeply. The show was a life-changer for a generation.
  • Quote: "We were a living, breathing Barbie doll for them … it was revelatory… to see this show and talk about dreams and what it takes to fight for yourself within your dreams." (21:05–22:16 - SLR)

• Facing Industry Rejection and Discrimination

  • Sheryl recalls being told to her face by Robert De Niro:
    • Quote: “Damn good actress. … It’s too bad because Hollywood is not looking for the black girl. So you better climb that mountain, wave that red flag and let them know that you’re there. And that never left me.” (24:14 - SLR)

• Overcoming Personal Hardship

  • She describes surviving divorce, financial insecurity, and nearly giving up—before meeting the manager who helped turn her career around and reminded her of her worth.
  • Quote: “I didn’t give up, but oh, my God, it was hard.” (25:08 - SLR)

Resilience, Belief, and Legacy

• Choosing Where to Place Your Focus

  • Sheryl centers herself on gratitude and positivity:
    • Quote: “People can say all these wonderful things about you. One person says one negative thing, and … I’m like, immediately in my mind, oh, my God. They don’t know what they’re talking about, or they just don’t see it yet, you know, and that’s okay.” (28:14 - SLR)

• Life Happens When It’s Meant To

  • Both Hoda and Sheryl reflect on their best career and life moments happening later in life, emphasizing that timing is personal and divine.
  • Quote: “What is for your count be unfieu. Meaning if it’s yours, it’s yours. It’s nobody else’s.” (29:02 - SLR)

• Parenting and Generational Legacy

  • Cicely Tyson once told Sheryl her kids would be her greatest achievement—a prophecy Sheryl takes to heart. She credits her own loving parents for showing her how to guide her children with unconditional love and wisdom.
  • Quote: “When I leave this world, I know that I’ll leave two wonderful people to take my place and say my name. And I believe it.” (33:47 - SLR)

Abbott Elementary: A Career-Defining Moment

• Stepping into Barbara Howard and Abbott's Success (37:00–40:35)

  • Sheryl describes her instant connection with the role of Barbara Howard, drawing on real-life teachers. She knew Abbott Elementary was a winner from the first script.
  • Quote: “When I read Barbara Howard, I was like, oh my god, I know this woman. … We’re not just teachers, we’re social workers. We do so much more because that’s what’s necessary and demanded of us.” (37:07–37:55 - SLR)

• The Emmy Win—A Surreal Achievement

  • The moment her name was called:
    • Quote: “I was as shocked as everybody in the room. … If I hadn’t heard Quintus scream, ‘Sarah, it’s you!’ … and then Tyler had my arm taking me up the side to the steps, and I was like, oh, my God.” (39:23–40:12 - SLR)

• Her Speech: Inspiration and Belief

  • Sheryl details channeling her father, singing on stage, and her Emmy speech’s core message:
    • Quote: “Don’t you give up on you. … This is what believing looks like. … If I’m here, you can be here. But you can’t give up. You gotta believe. You gotta believe.” (41:27–42:04 - SLR)

On Impact, Wellness, and Making Space

• Becoming “The One Person” for Others

  • Sheryl shares moving encounters where strangers show her speeches that had a transformational effect:
    • Quote: “People don’t have to love you. … But when you look in the mirror, you better love what you see.” (45:11–45:21 - SLR)

• Health, Advocacy, and Thriving at 50+

  • The importance of her Diva Foundation (35 years strong), family wellness initiatives, and current work as spokesperson for GSK’s Thrive at 50 Plus, encouraging those over 50 to prioritize their wellness and readiness for the future.

• What Fills Her Cup: Making Space for Rest

  • Cheryl’s ideal, restorative day is spent “doing nothing”—reading a physical book, watching black and white movies, savoring quiet and comfort.
  • Quote: “I am probably not getting out of my bed. … I’m pulling up on a good book. … I might turn on an old black and white movie. … I’m doing nothing.” (49:03–50:19 - SLR)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Joy is my strong suit." (03:39 - Sheryl Lee Ralph)
• "I believed my parents. I believed what my parents told me. And I had a passport. Having a passport gives me the world." (05:51 - SLR)
• "[Dreamgirls] was life-changing for a generation… we were a living, breathing Barbie doll for them.” (21:05–22:16 - SLR)
• “Damn good actress… too bad because Hollywood is not looking for the black girl. So you better climb that mountain, wave that red flag and let them know that you’re there.” (24:14 - Robert De Niro to SLR)
• “People can say all these wonderful things about you. One person says one negative thing… and that’s what you want to talk about. … That’s okay. You’re not always for everybody.” (28:14–28:29 - SLR)
• “What is for you can’t be un-for-you. Meaning if it’s yours, it’s yours. It’s nobody else’s.” (29:02 - SLR)
• “Don’t you give up on you. … This is what believing looks like. … If I’m here, you can be here. But you can’t give up. You gotta believe. You gotta believe.” (41:27–42:04 - SLR)
• “People don’t have to love you. … but when you look in the mirror, you better love what you see.” (45:11–45:21 - SLR)
• “When I leave this world, I know that I’ll leave two wonderful people to take my place and say my name. … It’s just like, wow. This is something else.” (33:47 - SLR)
• “I’m probably not getting out of my bed. … I’m doing nothing.” (49:03–50:19 - SLR)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:22] Sheryl on joy and her parents’ influence
• [05:51] The power of believing her parents’ version of who she was
• [08:05] First big performance and recognition
• [12:49] Switching from law to theater (walkout on Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s class)
• [13:27] Parental reaction to her career choice
• [21:05–22:36] Being a role model in Dreamgirls
• [24:14] Robert De Niro’s frank advice and industry barriers
• [29:02] “What is for you can’t be un-for-you” — fate and timing
• [37:07] Embodying Barbara Howard and sensing Abbott’s success
• [39:23–40:12] The shock and euphoria of winning an Emmy
• [41:27–42:04] Delivering the legendary Emmy speech
• [45:11] The mirror quote—loving yourself and self-worth

Tone & Language

This episode is warm, wise, vulnerable, and fiercely optimistic—just like Sheryl Lee Ralph herself. Hoda’s empathetic and affirming interviewing style matches the subject’s candidness, encouraging open sharing and reflection.

Conclusion

Sheryl Lee Ralph’s moving journey—marked by joy, faith, and grit—offers a masterclass in resilience and positive self-belief. Her legacy as a performer, advocate, and parent is matched only by the hope and empowerment she gives to others. This episode will resonate with anyone facing doubt or looking for permission to make space for their own dreams and well-being—at any age.

“Don’t you give up on you. … You gotta believe.” —Sheryl Lee Ralph