#162 - Useless Friends

Summary

Podcast Summary: Man of the Year - Champions of Friendship

Episode #162: Useless Friends

Hosts: Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo
Date: December 9, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Matt and Aaron dive deep into the concept of "useless friends"—a term popularized by happiness researcher Arthur Brooks to describe friends who offer no transactional or instrumental value (i.e., career, status, favors) but provide genuine companionship and joy. The hosts explore whether such friendships are actually the most valuable, debate the tension between "usefulness" and pure presence, and answer a listener's question about keeping old friendships alive as lives diverge. They also riff on personal stories, the diversity of their own friend circles, and what truly makes a friendship matter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Theory of Useless Friends (01:12–08:51)

• Arthur Brooks’ Perspective:

  • Aaron introduces Arthur Brooks' idea from Harvard Business School about “useless friends”—those who “are emotionally essential but practically unnecessary. You don’t need anything from them and your friends simply because you enjoy each other’s company.” (01:35)
  • Matt recommends Brooks’ book, The Second Mountain, which is about finding deeper purpose after career or family milestones (02:04).
  • The hosts joke about “Galloway Light” and Harvard stereotypes.

• Modern Obsession with Useful Friends:

  • Matt critiques the trend among “influencers and gurus” to maximize your inner circle for status or growth.
    • “The whole idea that you should be with five people that are where you need to be… why do they want to be with you then?” (04:16)
    • “I hate that… what a gross way to think about it.” (04:09, Aaron)

• Transactional vs. Genuine Connection:

  • Matt: “Other people are intentionally… trying to transactionalize their friendships… I hate that.” (03:45)
  • Aaron: “Our east coast crew—pretty useless, which of course we mean in a good way.” (04:43)
  • Both hosts agree it’s healthy to have friends who have “no utility” beyond bringing joy.

Notable Quote:

“I want that to be the default… I don’t need more than that as a baseline for a reason to be friends with you.”
— Matt Ritter (05:23)

2. Defining “Useless” and the Value Spectrum (06:00–10:33)

• What is True Uselessness?:

  • Matt notes everyone has “some friends that serve some sort of purpose,” whether emotional, financial, or practical. But he resists the idea every trait must be quantified.
    • “If you like somebody and you enjoy their company, they’re your friend.” (06:34)
  • Aaron clarifies “useless” is tongue-in-cheek, not derogatory, and that it’s more about non-transactional value (07:04).

• One-Sided Friendships & Reciprocity:

  • Discussion on reciprocity and friendships that aren't “50/50”—sometimes utility is uneven and that's okay if you enjoy the person (08:21).
  • Funny story about dog-sitting reciprocity being “hosed like nine to one” (07:19 Matt, laughs).

• Can You Quantify Joy?:

  • Matt wonders why we don’t include “someone you can just sit in a room and laugh with” when scoring friendships (09:11).

Notable Quote:

“Most friendships aren’t [quantifiable]… if you just have a good laugh, that should be enough.”
— Matt Ritter (08:51)

3. Listener Question: Is There a Point in Keeping Old Friends? (13:13–18:47)

• Listener Dilemma:

  • Listener asks whether to maintain high school friendships when lives have diverged significantly (13:25).
  • Aaron: “You’re having fun… You enjoy hanging out with them. Is it someone to… the wrong question.”
  • Matt: “Are we judging friendships by productivity now?… What are we doing?” (14:07)
  • Both agree the “point of a friend” is joy and positive feelings rather than career alignment or usefulness.

• Friendship Diversity:

  • Aaron: “It’s good to have a friend with a big truck who can move stuff, and it’s good to just have someone who can do nothing.” (15:36)
  • Matt introduces “active friends” and “friend emeritus”—old friends who may not be in daily life but have a respectful, lasting presence (16:48, 17:02).

Notable Quote:

“Maybe that friendship completed its mission.”
— Matt Ritter (17:09)

• The Hosts on Their Old Friends:
  • Both reflect on their tight-knit high school group and the value of sentimental, “archival, time machine friends.” (16:10–16:48)
  • Matt: “Not all friendships need to be active all the time for them to still be friends.”

4. High School Reunions & Sentimentality (19:04–21:44)

• Discussing attending (or not attending) school reunions, feeling curiosity but no burning desire.
• The importance of community and shared upbringing from Plainview, Long Island.
• Aaron: “I have no desire to go to a high school reunion. I’m still friends with the same 12 people from high school.” (19:40)
• Both agree their high school was “flat” (not overly cliquey) and full of “good families and good people.”

5. The Importance of Outer-Circle and “Random” Friends (26:16–29:39)

• Aaron shares how “fringe” or “outer ring” friends often bring more diversity and novel experiences than the core group (26:55).
  • “A useless friend is more likely to be in that [outer] ring and therefore could be more… interesting.”
• They exchange stories about group trips, Medieval Times, drinking wine from a horn, and how such adventures often come from peripheral friends (28:23–29:39).

6. Final Thoughts & Takeaways (30:24–31:40)

• Matt: “Cherish them. Cherish them like you do your, you know, most useful friend. Because everybody serves a purpose.” (30:30)
• Aaron: “The most useful friends you have are the ones that are useless.” (30:39)
• Both reflect on personal examples—Aaron shouts out his friend Shane as a perfect “useless friend” who’s “super fun, always down to hang, doesn’t give a what I do.” (31:13)
• Matt: “Those are all, to me, very useful qualities.” (31:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the friend “utility” debate:
  “Do you want someone to be friends with you because you serve a purpose to them or because they like you?”
  — Matt Ritter (07:49)

• On circle diversity:
  “I think a good… diversity in your friend group… I think it’s good to have a friend with a big truck who can move stuff for you... and it’s good to just have someone who can do nothing.”
  — Aaron Karo (15:36)

• On lasting value:
  “Our friendship isn’t always active all the time, or as active as you want it to be. Not all friendships need to be active all the time for them to still be friends.”
  — Matt Ritter (16:09)

• Reframing the core question:
  “How do you look at the value of a friend? If they make you feel good and you enjoy the company, that should be enough.”
  — Matt Ritter (24:37)

• On friend “missions”:
  “Maybe that friend… that friendship completed its mission.”
  — Matt Ritter (17:09)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:12–02:04 — Introduction of “useless friends” theory (Arthur Brooks)
• 04:09–04:43 — Critique of transactional friendship and the “level up” mentality
• 07:19–07:39 — Dog-sitting reciprocity anecdote
• 13:13–18:47 — Listener question: keeping up with old friends as lives diverge
• 19:04–21:44 — High school reunions, Plainview nostalgia
• 26:16–27:18 — “Fringe”/outer circle friends and diversity
• 30:24–30:49 — Cherishing the “useless” friends

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Final Takeaways

• Joy Over Utility: The real value in friendship isn’t measurable by utility or productivity, but by the joy, comfort, and energy friends bring.
• Diversity Matters: Beyond inner circle “clones,” outer and “useless” friends inject variety and help us experience new things.
• Friendship Is Seasonal: Not all friendships need to be constantly active, and sometimes a relationship’s season simply ends, and that’s okay.
• Cherish the Useless: Sometimes, the most “useless” friends are the ones who give our lives the most real, unquantifiable meaning.

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Call to Action:
Matt and Aaron encourage listeners to reflect on and celebrate their own “useless” and “useful” friends—and to send in their stories or questions for future episodes.

Sign-off:
“Always remember, be good to yourself, be good to your friends. Love you, buddy.” (31:59)

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the number one friendship podcast in the country. I'm Aaron Caro.

[B]

I'm Matt Ritter.

[A]

And guys, make sure to check out our Audible original, the buddy [e-mail] the buddy system. We're getting a lot of great reviews and a lot of great feedback.

[B]

We're pushing Units. I don't know if they're downloads or what. I'm calling them Units.

[A]

Also, I got some requests because, Matt, we were on Chrissy Teigan and John Legend's podcast. We post some. We posted some pictures with Chrissy Teigen where she's wearing our merch. Where you're watching us on YouTube. You can see I'm wearing the merch. Says we should be friends. And that merch is [e-mail] Great. Merch.

[B]

Get some merch. Guys. Onesies. We got onesies.

[A]

I know. We need to refresh our. We want to refresh our. My own merch closet.

So, Matt, I want to.

Start off with a. This.

[B]

Okay, I'll take it. You.

[A]

You are useful.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You are useful.

I'd like it better if you were.

[B]

Useless waiting for the other shoe to drop here.

[A]

I've been reading about. It's actually. I mean, you know him better than I do, but Arthur Brooks is. Is he a h. Harvard Business School?

[B]

Like, everything about him reeks of Harvard Business School. He looks like he was created in an HBS lab. He's like. We call him Galloway Light.

[A]

Yeah, Galloway Light. So someone pointed out, like, his. His theory about useless friends. And a useless friend is someone with no instrumental or transactional value in your life. They can't help your career, stay, status, finances, or ambitions. Their friends who are emotionally essential but practically unnecessary. You don't need anything from them and your friends simply because you enjoy each other's company.

[B]

By the way, Arthur has a great. A great book called the Second Mountain, about, like, after you've already kind of, like, achieved your whatever, career goals, whatever. Like, what are you supposed to do with your life?

[A]

I've heard you mention that before, but, like, who was that? Who was that, like, aimed to? Beyonce?

[B]

No, I'm saying a lot of people have, like, you know, just like, done the professional thing and had a kid or whatever, and it's like, then what is life about for you?

[A]

Yeah, well, it's funny at the same, you know, I was at this, like, sort of highfalutin, like, venture capital conference thing. Yeah, the same.

Thing. This guy told me that he did a. A group trip with his useless friends.

Because, you know, Everyone works in tech, so everyone is friends, but they're also like us. They're also working together. So he gathered all these people not in tech. I was like, I appreciate you for you. And he went, went away with him together. Yeah.

[B]

I love that. I listen. I love useless friends. I've got quite a few.

[A]

It's good.

[B]

No names. I just. I don't know, you know, I. Everybody has different criteria and they may not even be aware of their criteria of how they select their friends. A lot of them are by default what you grew up with, what you had. Whatever. Other people are intentional about it. Oh, you know, this person is a good network for me, or this person's in my good emotional support system or whatever. Other people still are, are overly intentional, I'd say, about trying to transactionalize their friendships. And you see a lot of, I don't know, gurus on social leaning hard into cutting down your friend circle to people who are beneath your station or some. What, Some like, oh, you know, because, like the idea that you are the five people you surround yourself with. And if you're trying to level up, then you got to shed anybody who's not on your level. And I hate that.

[A]

Yeah, what a. What a gross way to think about it. Also, like, gross also. Aren't the people above you gonna shed you?

[B]

Totally. The whole idea that, like, oh, hey, no, you should be with the five people that are where you need to be. It's like, why do they want to be with you then? Like. Or you should just be with people that make you feel good and you have a good rapport with and you have good energy, you know, or you just like playing pickleball with, like, just the whole thing is, you know, commodifying it to that degree. It's tough.

[A]

You know, I think I. I love the theory of useless friends. I think it's so hard to say because it sounds like such a dis. But I feel like our east coast crew are pretty useless, which of course we mean in a good way.

[B]

I want all my friends to be useless.

[A]

Well, here's my little push back. I've talked about this in the pod when I'm working with a friend on a project. I just feel like a.

[B]

You.

[A]

You talk to them so much more. You're like, I don't want to say invested because it's not invested in the friendship, but it's just like, I don't know, you're rowing towards something together.

[B]

I'll rephrase. I don't want all my Friends to be useless. I want that to be the default of like, I don't need more than that as a baseline for a reason to be friends with you.

[A]

Oh, of course, sure.

[B]

You know, like, I'm not like, oh, well, you can't get my script to Spielberg. I don't need this.

[A]

Well, we're in entertainment, so that's tough. Do you think there are reg? I'm doing air. By the way, you could watch these episodes on YouTube. Maddie, their podcast. I'm doing air quotes. Do you think there's people in regular jobs who have all useless friends?

[B]

No, I think everybody has, like, I think just a general statement, everybody has in their friend circle some friends that serve some sort of purpose. Right. Whether it's like, hey, this person is helpful to me emotionally or they are helpful to me financially, or they help me get jobs or they're, you know, my, my wise consigliere or whatever. And they also usually have some friend that to the objective.

[A]

I.

[B]

You cannot quantify what their value is. Now you're lumping them in as useless. But I don't even agree with the term useless because then we're just saying that you have to be able to quantify a trait in a friend that makes you like them. Whereas I just think if you like somebody and you enjoy their company, they're your friend.

[A]

I do want to clarify that I believe Arthur Brooks. I mean, I think the term useless is somewhat ironic. Tongue in cheek.

[B]

No, but I think a lot of people believe, like, I think a lot of people are caught up in this. Hey, what does this person do for me? You know?

[A]

Right. Didn't you once make friends with someone so they could dog sit? Or was it the reverse?

[B]

No, it's the exact opposite. We had so many friends who were friends with us. And then in the dog sitting reciprocity, we were getting hosed like nine to one ratio.

[A]

So you were a dog standing a lot.

[B]

It was out of control. We were like, I guess we just have to go to Mexico just to even up the score.

[A]

Right, right, right. You're very useful. I mean.

I mean. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think that it's.

[B]

Think about it.

Friends with you. Would you. Do you want somebody to be friends with you because you serve a purpose to them or because they like you? Because way you make them feel.

[A]

Well, obviously the latter. But I'm, I'm, I'm trying to think of people who, you know, I'm quote, useful to. I also don't mind it if I like them.

[B]

That's True. I think there is a correlation. Like you, you don't mind the, oh, this person's asking for things if you, if you enjoy them.

[A]

This is the classic one sided friendship where like we've had listeners write in and be like, I'm not as good friends with this person as they are to me.

[B]

Or the reverse, right.

[A]

I like doing stuff for them, so I'm just gonna do it.

[B]

They're not all 50. 50. Most friendships aren't. They're not all quantifiable. Yeah, I don't know, you know, the, the quantification element of it, it's, it's tricky. But yes, look, I think what Arthur Brooks is saying essentially is like, hey, you can just be friends with somebody like, because you just have a good laugh. Because you have a good laugh.

[A]

I mean, I suppose if you distill friendship down to its core, that's really what it's about. Like, can you sit in a room with this person and hang out?

[B]

Right. I quantify. If I, if I was gonna put a score, I mean again, we could put a score to that and then they would look so useless. You know what I mean?

[A]

Well, what do you mean, put a score to it?

[B]

Well, if we were going to assign a metric on a friendship score, which you know, we didn't do in our, in our audio we gave, we did the, the algorithm test, right. We assigned bi directionality vulnerability. I forget what all six of them were. But you know, we didn't assign a score to like somebody you can just sit in a room and laugh with.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So if you added that to algorithm, you know, you might look at a different scoring system. Right. Because again, like if you put that in the scoring system, you would end up, if you called that useless friends, they would rank highly.

[A]

Well, I think the argument would be, is let's say you're someone who could do nothing for me, but if I.

You know, am having an issue with my sister, you're a good person to ask for advice, I think. Think that still counts as useless? Are you saying that counts as useful?

[B]

I think that counts as useful.

[A]

There's, there's nobody who's completely useless. What does that even mean?

[B]

Right. Well, that's what I'm saying, but I think what they're saying is like, they're not your friend of that you go to for advice. They're not your mentor. They're not the person that watches your kids. They're, you know, they're not the person that helps you get a job. They're just somebody you like?

[A]

Yeah, I guess that's right. I mean, I guess. I mean, we're almost like. I feel like we're being friends with primordial ooze now. Like you can't interact. Yeah.

[B]

Should we get to the listener question? Because I think it really hits on what we're drilling down into.

[A]

We'll be right back.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[C]

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[A]

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[A]

Okay, guys, this is asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question or ethical dilemma, send it to us on Instagram and we will answer it on the show. Our handle is man of the Year podcast. Matthew, take it away.

[B]

I don't. Hey, Matt and Caro. I don't feel like I have much in common anymore with my high school friends. We see each other occasionally and it's always nice, but our lives are totally different now. Different careers, different kids, ages, different everything. Is there any point in keeping those friendships going?

[A]

Well, I mean, this is. This is, you know, obviously dovetails with what we're talking about. Any point. I mean, you're having fun, you know, like, you enjoy hanging out with them.

Like, is it someone to. The wrong question.

[B]

Right. Because this is what I'm getting into. Are we judging friendships by productivity now?

[A]

Right.

[B]

What are we doing?

[A]

Right?

You know.

If you enjoy spending time with them. Well, we're getting down to some real philosophical right now, Matt, which is like, what's the point of a friend?

[B]

What is the point of a friend? Like, we are drilling down into what is the point of a friend? And I think we've got into this weird place where there's too many quote unquote influencers and gurus who are saying that they're only for growth. And I don't agree with that.

[A]

Well, but they've got to be for something.

[B]

Joy.

[A]

Joy, yes.

[B]

Value to me, that's like my life metric.

[A]

Yes, but I mean, like, you were talking about pure, uncut joy. If you, if you have.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

[A]

If you have season Dodgers tickets. And one of our funny. Our most fun things is going to Dodger games. Well, according to you, that makes you useful because you are providing a service.

[B]

Right. But it'll be the other way around. It'd be like, I have tickets, but I just want to bring this one person that it makes me laugh as opposed to bringing somebody else that could do something for my life other than that.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

So, yeah, let's back up to. Yeah, there's room for both.

[A]

I think a good. You know, we talk about diversity in your friend group, like the different types of friends, work friends and neighbors. I think this, this falls into that, too. Like, I think it's good to have a friend with a big truck who can move stuff for you. Right. And it's good to just have someone who can do nothing.

[B]

And I, you know, there's some high school friends. I think about this sometimes because we see our friends, you know, on the east coast, not so frequently. I try to keep up with contacts.

They're not totally active all the time.

[A]

Active friends.

[B]

Active friends. Like, our friendship isn't always active all the time or as active as you want it to be. Not all friendships necessarily have to be active all the time for them to still be friends. And, and, and they don't even need to be relevant to your life right now. It could be, again, like, I think there's room for just like sentimental, archival, you know, time machine friends. But you could, and they could be part of your current life or they don't have to be. But that doesn't mean they're. There's no room for them occasionally.

[A]

Well, we talk about in the audio original friend emeritus, which is, you know, an old friend who you've, you know, have a lot of great memories for. You're not super active with them right now, but there's a respectful position and they could always come back.

[B]

Right. And it's also, and I love that. And I, it just also like.

Maybe that friend, that friendship completed its mission.

[A]

Interesting.

Interesting.

[B]

You. You were a high school kid and you needed that.

[A]

I feel like the subtext of the question is like, it doesn't sound like they're having a lot of fun together because just because you have two kids and I don't doesn't mean we can't go to a Dodgers game and have a good time.

[B]

100. And that's a great, that's a great commentary on this.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Because he's saying different. Everything. Because everything isn't just career and kids.

[A]

Listen, one guy could be, you know, not drinking anymore and he, they like to party or, you know, he wants to go to concerts and the other guy doesn't.

[B]

Yeah. So he asked us, is there any point to keeping those friendships going? It's like, I gotta flip it back on you. Like, is there something that is a glue beyond career and phase of life if the fee. If the good feelings aren't there? Because that's the other. Again, that's my other metric that we're not putting in our current day equation that I think we need to put back in. Does this friend make you feel good?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like if they, if they came over or they called you right now, would you have A good time.

[B]

Right. And just because you have a good time doesn't mean now you have to reinsert them into your week to week.

[A]

Also when he's saying, you know, is there any point. Well, it's not really costing you anything.

To maintain. We're gonna ghost these people.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

What?

[B]

Right. What does it cost you to see or not see your high school friends once a year?

[A]

Can you believe we graduated high school? It's 28 years ago.

[B]

My brother just did his 30th, and he went to it and he said.

[A]

Oh, I actually heard about that through Christina.

[B]

You sent a picture. They look surprisingly pretty good.

[A]

Well, that's because your brother looked the same in high school.

[B]

He's an older man. He's always an older. No, but everybody. Everybody looked pretty good.

[A]

Well, how. What was the turnout like?

[B]

Looked like they were about 60.

[A]

Whoa, that's not bad. We only have 280 in a typical class. 250.

[B]

Yeah, I'd say about 25.

[A]

Where was it?

[B]

You know what? I didn't get to circle up with him on. I just saw a page. You sent a picture to our family.

[A]

Just. Just for our listeners. The Matt and I went to Plainview, Old Beth Page, John Fitzgerald Kennedy High School, P.O. b. JFKHS on Long Island. I have no desire to go to a high school union. I'm still friends with the same 12 people from high school.

[B]

We do it. It's called Lugers.

[A]

Yes, we go to Peter Lugers. Yeah, but, like, do you have any desire to see anybody from high school?

[B]

I wouldn't say desire.

I don't have a negative. I don't.

[A]

I don't not like anything sound like a negative.

[B]

I don't have a negative. Like, I. I wouldn't say desire. There's maybe some level of curiosity. You know, I'd always kind of like. I do get a lot of messages from people from high school on. On Social, and I do enjoy seeing their faces and their families. I know you were, like, very anti.

[A]

That well in. To use your turn of phrase, mission complete.

[B]

I, I don't know. I. I'm at the age now. I think it's because I have little kids, too. I like seeing. I like seeing their little versions of them. It's like, oh, my God, that looks just like this person. Right? Your kid looks just like you. Because I have a memory of them at 7 and 9. And now I'm seeing tiny, tiny little clones of them. I don't know. There's something. There's something very sweet about it. Yes. I mean, look, do I have a desire to go to a reunion and engage in, like, 300 little small talkies? I don't think so. But. But do I enjoy seeing what's going on periodically in people's lives that I'm not, you know, connected to or friends with? Yeah, actually, I do enjoy it.

[A]

You know what? I'm gonna soften. I'm gonna soften a little bit, especially since I think we both had a really fun high school experience. I think we've also discussed that our high school was pretty flat.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, yes, there was clicks, but, like, everyone was friendly.

[B]

And, you know, I've come around on playing View as it. As an upbringing, you know, because I just have this, like, chip on my shoulder, like, I gotta make it in this world, blah, blah. And it's like, now I'm looking at the world, I'm like, man, Plainview is so great.

[A]

We are. We had it made, bro.

[B]

We had it made, everybody again. So, like, this idea of, like, oh, would I want to go back to high school? Like, I really. There's nobody. I don't have, like, some level of fondness for it. It's funny, you know, like, they're all just good. Like, what you're saying. Flat. It was just good families and good people.

[A]

And I was going to add the families. Like, my family still lives in Plainview. Many of our classmates. Families still live there. So it's like, I mean, my folks, you know, see our friends, parents all the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I think I want to just, like, take a walk around, play. Every time I'm on the island, I stop, you know? Stop it.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I told you that, by the way. Have you. So this is a little bit of a tangent. Have you been to Courage Bagels?

[B]

Of course. Come on. Were you not at my.

[A]

No, I missed it.

[B]

Yeah. We did a blind bagel test. Encouraged, slaughtered everybody.

[A]

So it's been. It's been a little bit more in pop culture because it's both been mentioned and nobody wants this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And also, I love la, the new Rachel Senate show.

[B]

Oh, they both did Courage. Wow, that's funny.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, I haven't been yet. It's kind of the other side of town for me. But, like, people that I know and trust, like you, Dan, a dude, have said it stacks up to. So we. Bagel boss is the best bagels in the world.

[B]

It's in our hometown, actually, I think is better. I don't know if we got into this before for.

[A]

I mean, the man's a Dodger hat wearing Courage Bagel, eating West coast.

[B]

Pound Bagel. I. I did a taste test last time I was on Long island with Jesse. We both agreed town bagel is better than bagel.

[A]

Wait, so how was car bagels?

[B]

Tremendous. It's tremendous, but it's a different type of bagel. It's Montreal style, so they have these burnt crusts. Like, it's just a different thing.

[A]

Someone described it to me as. It's not a bagel. It's fancy bread.

[B]

That's not quite right either.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't know what the app. I don't know what the app description is, but it's.

[A]

Is it. Did you order in or you went there?

[B]

We ordered in. So we had them fresh. We had. We had Courage. We had.

Courage, Murray's and Bells.

[A]

Because. Because they're all good.

[B]

They're all good.

[A]

Because I heard this huge lines when you go to Courage.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Jesse ordered it. Yeah. If you go on a weekend morning, you'll wait 45 minutes for a bagel, which is nuts.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. I. I'm gonna put that on a. On a little LA bucket list.

I've never been to Courage Bagels and I never been to the Magic Castle.

[B]

Well, if you ever want to go to Courage.

We should just go at 8am and I'll wait online, like, early. If we just go early. Like, early.

[A]

Is it weird that I'm, like.

Not even that early?

[B]

Well, on a weekend, I think that's when it opens. I'm saying I don't even know or whatever. Whenever it opens, I'll go at six. I don't care. Five. But I don't think they're open until eight.

[A]

Yeah, okay, I totally took us off topic. High school. Do we answer this guy's question or yes?

[B]

I think we need to just reframe it as what is. How do you look at Value of a Friend? I mean, if they make you feel good and you enjoy the company, that should be enough.

[A]

Yeah, there is some.

Benefit quote benefit to like keeping your high school friends around or staying in touch with them also, you know, listen, you always talk about seasons. I'm just thinking of mission accomplished. You always talk about seasons like you're in a season. Hey, your kids are all going to be growing up one day. It doesn't matter whose age was what.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

You know, you're going to want to reminisce. I mean, listen, we do have something that's the whole point of the podcast that many people don't have, which is we know People our entire lives.

[B]

And we do know that you do get jazzed up and you do get re. Energized when you see these people. I have to say that's a fact. Every time I, you know, get back from Lugers or whatever. Whatever, you know, we're seeing our high school friend this weekend, and it's like, I don't know, there's something nice and it gives me an energy jolt and it keeps me going.

[A]

I will say, but our high school friends really cut across the strata. I mean, we've got kids getting bar mitzvahed. We have kids just born, you know, all kinds of occupations.

[B]

We have a guy who's five years away from getting married.

[A]

No, he's talking about me. We. But we're still, you know, we still hang. It's good hang.

[B]

Yes. You know, I think we answered it. I think, you know, this guy should know the answer to the own. Your own question. I think you're. I think he's listening to outside opinions on what friendship is.

[A]

All right, thank you so much for that question. This was asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question, send it to us on Instagram on. On man of the Year podcast.

Okay, so back to useless friends for a moment. I was thinking another benefit. Did you remember, like, many. God, we've done so many episodes now. We talked about, like, how fringe. Fringe friends. So not your tight circle, tend to be a little bit more diverse and interesting because your. Your core circle becomes. I think it's called homogeny. It's just like your people who do the same thing as you, where the outer circle is like different people that you know from random ass stuff. And I think a useless friend is more likely to be in that.

In that outer ring and therefore could be more. I just. I love those kind of. I hate to use the word random, but like those non inner circle friends that like, just bring something different to the table, right? Like, they always have an interesting story or something's happening or they want to. Hey, you want to do X? And you're like, I never even heard of that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, didn't you go to Medieval Times?

[B]

I went to medieval Times.

[A]

We. We all like our inner circle.

[B]

We all chugged out of a horn.

[A]

You chug red wine.

[B]

A bottle of red wine. I told you this. It fits in a horn. It fits exactly to the top. The horn was created to. To. To drink one bottle of red wine in it.

I'm trying to think.

[A]

Does it look like, you know, like the Thanksgiving cornucopia? What does it look like.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Okay, so it's pretty unwieldy. And you're, like, pretty. You know, it feels easy to spill.

[B]

Spilled all over. I'm sure we probably didn't drink all of it. It spilled on a moving bus.

[A]

Wait, why are you on a. Oh, right. On a moving bus. Okay.

[B]

We took a bus. It's far. I forget if it's in Anaheim or something.

[A]

By the way, I just. I just Google medieval times. Like wine chugging. But it thinks I'm talking about medieval times. Like, real medieval times. Right.

[B]

They did chug it out of the horn, probably. How else would they, Chuck?

[A]

Yeah, I would. I would go for a white wine in a. In a. In a horn. Yeah, but you got to keep it cool. You think? Red wines. Oh, you got to keep it cool. Oh, interesting. Dang.

[B]

You know, medieval times. There's not a lot of ice in medieval times.

[A]

Yeah.

Wait, hold on, hold on. I don't want to get hung up on this. Why did you have the horn on the bus before you even got there?

[B]

No, no.

Somebody bought a horn. Okay, long story short, somebody bought a horn from the gift shop, and we had a credit for alcohol, and they were like, we can give it to you, but we can't give you in a bottle. We can't give you a bottle of wine. We can pour you a bottle of wine and. But we're like, but they don't. Like, we don't. They were like, we don't have to go cups.

[A]

Was this a scam?

[B]

No. There. So I was like, well, could you just pour it in this horn? And they were like, it.

[A]

Oh. So this was like, you. You kind of, like, vamped. This was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

They were like, I guess we'll just pour it in your horn and you can just.

[A]

I'm sorry, is it made for drinking or is it for, like a show?

[B]

No, I think it's just like.

For the shofar.

[A]

The. The way you pitched this to me when you told me about it, you made it seem like telling them in the horn.

While we're just on this tangent, you know, just in Savannah, Georgia, they have very lax open container. Not lacks. They just. You can have an open container.

[B]

Is that right?

[A]

Yeah, I think it's just stimulate the business district and like, blah, blah, blah. So went into a bar. I'm like, oh, can I get a vodka soda? And she goes to stay or to go.

[B]

Ah.

To go.

[C]

Just cuz.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Just because I can't do that anywhere else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Isn't it so amazing when you go into a city and there's suddenly you can just walk outside with the alcohol.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you know me, a day drinking is my favorite. My favorite activity.

[B]

Yeah, it's a good one, but so tiring.

[A]

No, but. No, no, day drinking is better. You can go to bed at 8.

[B]

Great. It's perfect for me. It's perfect. I'm not gonna complain about that.

[A]

Any. Any last thoughts before we wrap up here on the old useless friend? Yeah.

[B]

Cherish them. Cherish them like you do. Your, you know, most useful friend. Because everybody serves a purpose.

[A]

I mean, listen, I think if we were gonna. We would say the most useless. The. The most useful friends you have are the ones that are useless.

[B]

I like it.

I like it.

[A]

Like, I think it's nice to have them. I think. Yeah. To be honest, I never even thought about it.

[B]

Did this make. This top you make. Make you think of specific people? Because it made me think of specific people. Now, nobody in our inner. Nobody in our inner group, but it did make me think of certain people in my life. I'm like, useless.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna shout one out because I think it's a beautiful thing. My buddy Shane, by the way, we have two Shane friends. One is extremely useful because he's our barber.

[B]

I mean, look at this hair. Thank you.

[A]

Looking. Looking good. He's literally my barber. And my other Shane, he's not in the industry. He could give two shits. He's super fun. He's always down the hang. Yeah, he doesn't give a what I.

[B]

Right. And those are all, to me, very useful qualities.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So, guys, let's hear about your useless friends or useful friends. I want to know, like, what you guys think about this topic. Remember to check out our Audible original, the buddy [e-mail]. the buddy system and our merch at man of your podcast dot com. Always remember, be good to yourself. Be good to your friends. Love you, buddy.

[B]

Love you, buddy.

[C]

It.